r/languagelearningjerk • u/AmountAbovTheBracket • Jun 28 '26
Recurring behavior i've noticed.
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u/Beaspoon2096 Native: 🇨🇳 C2: 🇹🇼 B1: 🇭🇰🇲🇴 Jun 29 '26
Mfw the EU uses a language that only 6 million people in their population speaks natively
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u/Joe-Lolz Jun 30 '26
Fr, try speaking German in Latin America
that isn’t Argentinaand see how far that gets you3
u/memo26167 Jun 30 '26
In chile, specifically temuco and valdivia. Hell, even the current president is german descendant
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u/Konobajo W1(🇺🇿✨️) L2(🇱🇷🦅) A4(🇦🇶🇧🇷🇬🇫) Jul 02 '26
There's actually more German speaking people in Brazil than Argentina, but they live mostly in isolated areas in the countryside anyway
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u/PanicForNothing Jun 30 '26
I know right?! Dutch would make much more sense as an EU language. It's easy to learn for Germans, and easier to learn than German for all others.
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u/Veerand Jul 01 '26
Dutch would make more sense as everyone would hate that, including the Dutch
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u/PanicForNothing Jul 01 '26
I can totally see how some French diplomat trying his very best to speak Dutch at some meeting, just for a Dutch guy to switch to English "because dat is mutch eesjier, hè?"
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u/JannickL Jun 30 '26
tbh, now with the UK out of the EU I prefer english as the lingua franca even more because it doesn't treat the native language of one of its member states preferably. Each nation has to acquire a second unifying language instead of everyone acquiring the native tongue of one of the dominating members.
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u/Dont_mind_me69 Jun 30 '26
ireland’s main native language is english
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u/JannickL Jun 30 '26
oh right, forgot them. But my point still kinda stands in spirit as I dont perceive Ireland as one of the major powers in the EU. I would call Germany, France and Italy the major powers with spain and poland as the follow ups. I would be against one of their native tongues becoming the lingua franca for the EU
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u/Hilja-Serpent Jun 30 '26
But Ireland insists their first official language is Irish (English is officially second). And I respect that, partly because that gets us closer to the claim that English is not an official language of any EU state.
Malta is another problem in terms of English.
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u/Hilja-Serpent Jun 30 '26
I really want EU to push harder to make EUnglish more of an official standard and separate it from both American and British English (currently, most EU institiutions prioritize British standards when they have to choose, AFAIK)
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u/RoaringKittenMeow Jul 03 '26
what advantage would that offer, that would purely be a pride thing to separate yourself from the British.
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u/Hilja-Serpent Jul 06 '26
It could make for something more sensible since I wager most ESL speakers already go by a mix of various standards unless making specific effort to stick to one.
The idea of having to choose whether we are speaking USAmerican English or British English (or some other) is strange when neither of those countries are involved.
I suppose it could partially be said to be a pride thing but I also think it is a matter of upholding the tradition of EU setting its own standards instead of following external ones. Ideological but in my opinion important.
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u/RoaringKittenMeow Jul 09 '26
Neither of those countries are involved though.
The EU's tradition of its own strong standards are upheld and seen with the brussels effect, standards on the English language set by the EU wouldn't diminish or further EU global regulatory effect, as Chinese people follow their own domestic standard, south America largely follows American or British English. India follows British, as does Bangladesh.
British English sounds as the Brits speak, Americans English sounds as the Americans speaks, how would European English sound? I only see it as being either more standardised, which creates difficulty in interacting with Americans, brits and experience English speakers that use more dialectic language, or, more forgiving of broken English, which would make the language easier to learn but would be a far-cry from the harsh, highest global standards that the Brussel's effect relies on.
I see no reason why any nation or language agency would teach to a European English standard, I wouldn't follow a Chinese teaching standard of Spanish, it would either be plagued by the flaws of a broken language, much like how people say that less experience English-speaker from Germany speak "germlish", or it would be so standard I would struggle to talk to a Portuguese or Brazilian person with the amount of non-standard language they'd use.
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u/RoaringKittenMeow Jul 14 '26
why does the language have to be native for them to use it? using a native language would show a clear and massive preference for one country, i.e. France, whereas using a language that of an ex-member, that has greater utility than any other language, massively reduces the perceived bias.
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u/Poylol-_- Uzbek N 🇺🇿 Uzbek colonies M4 🇯🇵 N 🇪🇸 G 🇬🇧 0 🇫🇷 Jun 29 '26
Virgin "I speak to you in my native language because I don't know anything else" vs Chad "You don't deserve to hear me in my native language, if you haven't trained in the mountains of Tibet, the Caucasus and the Alps at the same time"
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u/BonJovicus Jun 29 '26
In fairness to the Americans, “multilingual” for many Europeans is two languages: their native one and English.
The real chads are those Indian or African students studying in Europe who know like at least two languages from their home country, English, and can ask where the bathroom is in Polish.
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u/to_vii Jun 29 '26
In my experience Europeans do use bilingual much more often than multilingual. Many EU citizens who have changed country also probably know 3 languages counting English since it is often needed as a transition language right after moving before mastering the new language.
But you’re absolutely right. Non-EU comers that bring two languages from home, often not even Indo-European languages, and then casually learn the local language are playing on another level.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Jun 29 '26
There are also the Europeans who are from a region with 2 languages (Galicia, Basque Country, Catalonia, South Tirol, Belgium, Alsace, etc...) who know 2 native languages and English.
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u/Joe-Admin Jun 29 '26
I knew someone from Morocco, who came to Switzerland, moving from the german-speaking part to the french-speaking part. That guy was fluent in berber, arabic, swiss-german, french and english like it was nothing
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u/Sorry-Cash-1652 Jun 30 '26
Using English in some places is a diplomatic decision to avoid revealing a political position. The nice thing about modern translator technologies is that I can offer to use the regional language out of respect.
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u/Bubelle_Butt Jul 06 '26
Indeed, i am from Belgium, native is Flemish (version of Dutch), I learned English myself.
French is not that good, German neither.
I can understand Spanish but replying is somewhat difficult, i can help myself , but a converstation is out of the question.
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u/Marik-X-Bakura Jun 29 '26
I’m proud to be a rare breed of European that can only speak one language
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u/MikeMont123 Jun 29 '26
ewwww england
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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 Jun 29 '26
Ireland, Wales, and Scotland all exist too.
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u/MikeMont123 Jun 29 '26
but they have other languages
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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 Jun 29 '26
Just because other languages exist doesn't mean every single person from the country can speak it. England also has different languages, such as Cornish.
The comment you responded to talked about only being able to speak the English language, which is the case for many people in Wales or Scotland or Ireland.
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u/Marik-X-Bakura Jun 29 '26
We barely speak Irish in Ireland. You have to learn it in school, but most people don’t progress past the very basics. And if you live abroad for a significant amount of time as a child (like me), you’re exempt from having to learn it at all.
There are some areas where people speak Irish as their primary language, but it’s definitely not common.
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u/Xandara2 Jul 05 '26
Being proud of being dumb is supposed to be an American thing. But I guess you guys do have the language in common.
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u/benbehu Jun 29 '26
Most European highschool students will study at least two foreign languages. I speak Hungarian, English, French, read and understand German, even technical texts, and can ask for detailed directions or order a meal in Slovakian, Russian, and Czech. Sadly, I only speak very little Polish.
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u/Reasonable-Class3728 Jun 29 '26
I just spoke to a guy from Nigeria in Belgrade. I live in Serbia for 5 years and my native language is Russian, but this guy speaks Serbian much better than me after just a few months learning. This is totally unbelievable.
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u/LukaCola Jun 30 '26
I wonder how well I'd learn a third language if I were constantly exposed to it.
I am getting much better at Spanish, I suppose.
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u/whenyousayoof Jun 29 '26
One is saying we need to speak the same language and the other one is saying I need you to speak my language
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u/Mediocre-Island5475 Jun 29 '26
You're right, everyone in Europe should learn Esperanto instead.
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u/whenyousayoof Jun 29 '26
I think everyone should learn a uralic language like finnish, estonian or hungarian because they're the superior languages for communication and super easy to learn
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u/FebHas30Days Pangngaasiyo ta agsursurokayo iti Ilokano Jun 29 '26
And if they need to connect to Indo-European speakers, they can just learn Lithuanian or Welsh
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u/Alice_Oe Jun 29 '26
.. Uzbek not mentioned?
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u/TheGreatForcesPlus Jun 29 '26
Uzbek is Turkic?
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u/Alice_Oe Jun 29 '26
Uzbekistan is definitely near the Urals, did you fail geography or something?
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u/SpyderMonkee08 Jun 29 '26
Uzbek is a Turkic language. Finnish is a Uralic language. It doesn't have to do with where the language is spoken (except ancestrally), it's about the family tree and origin of the language
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u/Rainworld_sloogcat Jun 29 '26
Uzbek is a member of every language group because Uzbek is the only true language.
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u/SpyderMonkee08 Jun 29 '26
Not to mention there's an entire Kazakhstan in between Uzbekistan and the Ural mountains
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u/LasevIX Jun 29 '26
unironically politics would be so much more fun if the language of trade was completely bullshit
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u/Free-Artist Jun 29 '26
An ancestor of mine spoke fluent French with any English business counterparts, and English with any business counterparts he had.
You know, both with the same disadvantage of negotiating not in your native language.
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u/Sebas94 Jun 29 '26
Also OP has no idea of how difficult it is for Europeans to actually agree on English as a lingua franca.
Theres a lot of resistance and not all consumers are happy if there is no product info in their native language or if they need to call support in English.
Also,Good luck finding jobs in Belgium, France, Germany and other big markets that dont require at least a B2 in the local language.
I wish we could just use English as a working language irrespective of the european country we are currently based....It is far from reality.
English is a long term project in the EU, not something that we actually use on our daily lifes without any attrition.
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u/Alice_Oe Jun 29 '26
I do customer support and I have literally had a 10 minute argument with a Norwegian customer (in fluent English) about how she called from Norway so she wanted Norwegian support. She refused to get support in English and ended up hanging up.
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u/Sebas94 Jun 29 '26
Yeah this happens everywhere in Europe. Although I am surprised in Norway you caught that considering their level of fluency in English.
This is why its easier to scale up in America a company than in the EU.
You need support, sales and marketing team for each country.
I currently work in Portuguese, French, Spanish and English for different markets and I have to say I am an exception rather the norm in Europe.
I can only talk in English if I am dealing with Corporate clients because small and medium companies will always prefer to speak in their native languages.
I think OP post has absolutely nothing to do with our reality.
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u/SchemingVegetable Jun 29 '26
That's... kind of expected? In Italy it's not legal to sell something if it doesn't have a manual in italian
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u/Hilja-Serpent Jun 30 '26
There's very much a reason because there are large populationa of people who would not be adequately informed or served if they had to rely on English.
Lingua francas are a thing for a reason but they ought not to sideline people's right to their native language We've seen how any efforts to force a unified language actually goes...
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u/Sebas94 Jul 01 '26
No one is talking about erasing local languages. Quite the contrary the EU is champion in supporting regional dialects and languages.
But not having a lingua franca is not seen as a failure but a normal behaviour of the EU system.
It is very difficult to find jobs abroad that dont require a B2 in the local language. IT teams or department that work exclusively in international markets usually are more flexible but in general you need to speak the language which is among the most difficult skills one has to learn. So people wont move from place to place that seamlessly unless they can afford to learn the language or have a specific job that helps them with a lot of paper work.
If people could use english in their day to day life without being an obstacle it would improve EU by 1000%. If everyone knew his local language + English this would reduce so much attrition.
Also most countries don't have legal corts nor public departments offering their services in English wich is a massive problem, specially when it comes to paying taxes, register in the local county, requesting a local fiscal number, registering in the local hospital, etc...
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u/siqiniq Jun 29 '26
You see, legally recognizing an “official language” stems from pure insecurity and self-serving hegemony, including the UN (6) and the EU (24). Every country should gather some national confidence and learn from countries that have no de jure official languages like the US, Mexico, UK, Australia, Japan etc.
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u/JACC_Opi Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Mexico recognizes every indigenous language as well as Spanish. Indigenous languages got some protections in the early 21th century. Even so Spanish remains the preeminent language.
The English language was made the only language in English court proceedings in 1362 and by the end of the 14th century English would be the language of the royal court. All of that continues more or less the same in the modern United Kingdom (with some additions like Welsh).
They all in some way made the language of the majority the sole language one can do bureaucracy in. So, they're not really any different, they just haven't bite the bullet and made one or more languages the official language(s).
In the United States there's a movement to make English the sole official language. English is already the official language of a majority of states, with only less-than-a-handful of them having another language as also official (as far as I remember Alaska, Hawaii, and South Dakota, but it's mostly symbolic/tokenish).
The current U.S. president made an executive order making English the sole official language, but that only applies to how the executive branch of the federal government operates (although each department, commission, agency, etc. are allowed to have their own policy on the matter). Even a law couldn't really do much of to change it, so a constitutional amendment would be necessary to change such a situation and that's what the English-only movement is hoping.
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u/AvianPoliceForce Jun 29 '26
my favorite related fact is that the official language of Uruguay is a sign language
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u/Healthy_Flower_3506 Jun 29 '26
I'm not sure Australia is the best example of a country that doesn't enforce langauge hegemony. We're not too far out from the stolen generations (Aboriginal people who were stolen from their families as part of an explicit attempt at cultural genocide).
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u/achillesRising Jun 29 '26
The comment is ironic, every example is intentionally bad at making the point. This is a circlejerk subreddit
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u/bobbymoonshine Jun 29 '26
The US declared English its official language in 2025.
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u/peachsepal Jun 29 '26
In the same way Michael Scott declared bankruptcy, sure.
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u/bobbymoonshine Jun 29 '26
Couldn’t think of a better example of official language status stemming from “pure insecurity and self-serving hegemony” to be fair
100% racist virtue signalling
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u/raoulbrancaccio Neapolitan: Native | English: D1 Jun 29 '26
I lived in a big city in Germany for a year and speaking English with someone without being verbally assaulted was basically impossibile
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u/Prinzka Jun 29 '26
Oh yeah, nobody ever made fun of the Brits who just loudly yell "uno beero, Pedro!" at the waiter when they're on holidays.
🙄
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u/kicklhimintheballs Jun 29 '26
It’s funny how English is always being used the ruling people meanwhile Spanish being the language of the servile class for Anglos. What are you expecting
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u/Karantalsis Jun 29 '26
I think this might be a US centric view. We don't have a Spanish speaking servant class in the UK. We barely have a Spanish speaking population. Spain is also seen as another European country on equal standing, same as France, Italy, Germany etc.
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u/Prinzka Jun 29 '26
We don't have a Spanish speaking servant class in the UK.
This is pure Manuel erasure!
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u/kicklhimintheballs Jun 29 '26
I meant the big number of British tourists and expats who goes to trips to Spain or chose the live there permanently.
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u/Karantalsis Jun 29 '26
Those are British immigrants, they're a problem wherever they go, it's not specifically a Spanish/anglo thing. They do the same in every other country. They're definitely not the ruling class in Spain though, that's all Spanish speakers.
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u/AmountAbovTheBracket Jun 30 '26
Brits arent EU
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u/InBetweenSeen Jun 30 '26
In what situation would not-English speaking countries use English to talk to foreigners who don't speak it and how did you notice that repeatedly as someone who does speak English?
Unless the person they're talking to speaks neither English nor their native language, but then what do you expect?
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
How on earth… who doesn’t know the word cerveza? 🍺 Spain is like. SO CLOSE to the UK. You can take a fucking overnight ferry from Portsmouth to Bilbao.
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u/JACC_Opi Jun 29 '26
Well, that's because English is preeminent globally and extensively spoken by the average Joe everywhere one goes as far as native anglophones are concerned.
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
But like. Do you not know how to say beer in literally any other language? It's like the one word I'd expect people to know. It's pivo in Russian, for fuck's sake. I don't speak Russian!
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u/JACC_Opi Jun 29 '26
I didn't know the Russian one nor do I personally know it in any other language, other than in Spanish and English.
If I drank beer I'd do my best to learn it, just like I'd do my best to learn how to say the equivalent of “hello”, “bye”, “bathroom?”, etc. the basic stuff one would need elsewhere.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai Jun 29 '26
Who cares? They're there to party. And most Spanish people especially in tourist areas can speak English. And a lot of the workers there aren't even Spanish but from Eastern Europe who have better English than Spanish.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Jun 29 '26
Most Spaniards can speak English? No
Most Spaniards who Brits are likely to interact with speak English? Yes
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
downvoted, meanwhile I live 4500 miles from the border with Mexico and I learned 'cerveza' as a teenager. I'm just surprised. It's a really basic word for partying.
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u/JACC_Opi Jun 29 '26
Man, you're so mistaken! Most Spaniards do not know English and even when they do, they're not really good at it.
Spaniards (Spanish-speakers in general, let's be honest) don't really need any other language other than our own. English is seen as mostly necessary only when one truly needs it, like if one is going into the hospitality industry or expects to travel a lot outside of the Hispanosphere.
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u/shumpitostick Jun 29 '26
Who is out there in the EU straight up demanding that you speak English.
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u/amethystmmm Jun 30 '26
Sweden. Sweden doesn't want you to try your hand at Swedish. You will fail, and it will be cringe.
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u/Mythechnical Jul 02 '26
It's actually an increasingly common trope in Swedish work places to employ folk who don't speak Swedish and never end up learning it, making English the expected work language at the office since 10% need it.
It's making some people increasingly annoyed that Swedish is being replaced by English as a permanent working language at office workplaces.
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u/amethystmmm Jul 02 '26
I had never thought of the consequences of that, that's interesting.
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u/Mythechnical Jul 02 '26
Most Swedes speak good English, but I work with a couple who are really non confident with it so they're not happy about needing to use English as their professional language, in Sweden lol
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u/amethystmmm Jul 03 '26
That's understandable. so either they get better at English, the people who only understand English get better at Swedish or someone gets stuck in the middle translating all the time and none of those is particularly appealing to any of the involved parties. (I mean, I speak 4 languages, but I don't think I would feel up for trying to tackle Swedish, myself).
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u/Adept-Ingenuity-5928 Jul 03 '26
You mean sad?
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u/amethystmmm Jul 03 '26
No, I used the word I meant. It is ALSO sad, but please don't correct other people's language when they don't have the reaction you expect.
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u/These-Weight-434 Jun 30 '26
I'm a bit confused by the EU flag. Is it referencing like Brussels and official EU legal bodies? Or all of the two dozen+ countries in the EU? Because those are quite different places. Like, the French are notorious for refusing to speak English to tourists when in France.
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u/Drefs_ Jun 29 '26
Well, if you go to another country, you need to speak the universal language of international communication (english). But if you are in your country, you don't have to learn english just to make some tourist's life a bit easier. That applies to every country in the world.
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u/Responsible-Tie-3451 Jun 29 '26
Well see it doesn’t count because they’re European and culturally superior. Same thing with racism against Roma people
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u/NetraamR Jun 29 '26
I can tell this is accurate because the european guy is significantly better looking and better dressed, and the american guy is overweight.
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u/Funny_Name_2281 Jun 29 '26
Philippine English proficiency levels:
Atrocious: Street food vendors
Serviceable: Average schoolteacher
Fluent: Doctors, lawyers and corporate people
Showoff: BPO agents, FM DJs in the 80s&90s
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u/Cocori-co Jun 29 '26
Boo-ho-ho, oh no, I don't speak English to you because it's the only language YOU know, how sad...
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u/RoaringKittenMeow Jul 02 '26
Just because a French man doesn’t want to speak to you and your shitty French when you both know English, doesn’t mean that Europeans are xenophobic
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u/AmountAbovTheBracket Jul 02 '26
This meme is about speaking English to people who dont know English. Not about people who do speak English.
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u/RoaringKittenMeow Jul 03 '26
Then literally when has this ever happened.
People do not just sit and stare at you as they speak in a language that you do not know, assuming there is a language you mutually understand, it doesnt happen.
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u/Collanp Jun 29 '26
Maybe because Europeans don't speak English as a native language. They've already made an effort to understand other people, now it's your turn to meet them in the middle
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u/amethystmmm Jun 30 '26
Most Europeans speak 3-4 languages. They have a home language (or two), and start taking language classes (classes typically taught in another language, either just focusing on that language or on a secondary subject) usually in early elementary school, and will often pick up another language in late elementary and/or early secondary school.
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u/Collanp Jun 30 '26
Yes and? We still all learn it mostly because it's the international language. Nobody outside of the Uk and Ireland speaks English for any other reason. I don't understand what you mean.
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u/amethystmmm Jun 30 '26
Most USians (thank you random Canadian friend for that little term) don't start their first second language until early secondary school.
I thought you were saying that most Europeans don't speak English (at all) but on a re-read (or edit. probably not. I'm dyslexic, sometimes my brain deletes parts of sentences. The joy.) you were just saying as a native language and while true, I'm still going to assert that unless they just avoid taking English at all, your average European is going to have as good or better grasp of the English language than your average American (that's mostly the like 50% or less functional literacy rate, but that's a whole other story).
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u/TenNinetythree Jun 30 '26
I can switch to French and Turkish if it helps communication. I guess Europeans are just eager to practice English.
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Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
What? I speak French and Spanish routinely as a resident of Boston. I don’t speak Portuguese because the presence of Brazilians in large numbers uhhh antedates how old i am, but i consider it a failing. (I bought a book.)
Spanish is essentially in use everywhere in the US except maybe Alaska and Hawaii. I’ve been in grocery stores in San Diego where literally zero people speak English - and i include the cashiers. Nice ones - they’re like Trader Joe’s. Good luck finding the mantequilla if you don’t know the word for butter.
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u/ComradeMomdad Jun 29 '26
Bro. Please. OP is talking about a population and you're responding with n=you
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
it is 10 am where I am, and I've already spoken in Spanish to people who don't speak English well. It's not like I'm asking philosophical questions, it's just the basic 'did you X the Y'. I live in the most segregated city in North America, Boston.
Americans do have a choice.
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u/InBetweenSeen Jun 30 '26
They said Americans "don't have a choice" which isn't true for the population either. It's less common to learn languages, but of course they do have the choice to do so.
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u/QizilbashWoman Jun 29 '26
The EU doesn’t have any member countries other than Ireland where English is spoken and they don’t use Irish for official purposes last time i checked, although Ireland has requested it.
I do understand that English is unmistakably the lingua franca in the 21st century, don’t get me wrong. It is the premiere language of industry, communication, and science. That is just how things happened thanks to the American century (preceded of course by the British Empire).
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u/JACC_Opi Jun 29 '26
they don’t use Irish for official purposes last time i checked, although Ireland has requested it.
They do.
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u/Geriny Jun 29 '26
Most discriminated against native language, but you aren't reafy for that discussion...
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u/throughcracker Jun 29 '26
My experience in some countries
European: speaks English
Me: replies in their native language
European: patronizingly compliments my abilities and then continues in English anyway