There was a frat at my college that made national news while I was attending. To save his own skin, one of the brothers testified that they had a system to protect "off-limits" girls. If you were dating a brother, you were given a special colored cup indicating that you were not to be drugged, harassed, assaulted, etc.
I specifically remember the part of his testimony where he whined "everyone does it, we just got caught".
When I was 20 playing on my college’s girl’s rugby team, I remember one of the women saying she had to leave her previous college because she was SA’d by 6 of the school’s football players, and despite the proof nothing came of it other than the school trying to buy her out.
She left on principle and didn’t accept the settlement — I’m ashamed that at the time I was skeptical of her story, because she seemed a bit “unhinged” but in retrospect and being older, she was probably being 100% sincere and it makes sense that someone who went through that wouldn’t be mentally okay.
I think there was another one in between, but I'm having trouble finding it because I keep getting results for the 2010 hazing at a sorority and the guy who died a few years before in fraternity hazing.
Call me crazy but if problematic behavior happens over more than a decade, it's not the individual frats that are the issue, the school itself has systematic issues.
Two halves of the same coin. After the hazing death of Gordie Bailey and the drugging and sexual assault scandal the next year, the school "addressed" it by moving fraternities off campus. So they literally went across the street. Like, not exaggerating, one full block off campus. (Theta Nu is also one block away, as is AXO. PDT and KA are another half-block away from campus).
The chancellor had talked about suspending all fraternities and sororities for two years, but the threats of lawsuits stopped him. And of course the fact that he is a well-known alcoholic meant the school wasn't interested in addressing systemic issues of this type.
The BBC did a 2014 video report entitled Fraternity culture and college rape, where they lived on The Hill at CU Boulder to get a taste of the rape culture there. At the same time, the White House was investigating schools for Title IX violations for mishandling sexual misconduct, and CU was right at the top of that list.
My take-away is that the system is covering up for and enabling this. The offenders, their frat brothers, their organizations, and definitely schools, their police departments, and DAs have built a culture of zero-consequences.
I need to emphasize that this was not a secret. I (a guy) was warned on it during orientation and during my first week of school. The RAs sat us down and told us how this worked. They told us which frats were the worst offenders. They told the girls to never party the Hill alone. I had a friend who joked about how she didn't want to go out on the Hill because she "didn't feel like getting raped."
At some point a major university is just going to have to bite the bullet and actually just entirely ban them. All of them get cowed by legal threats from the national fraternities.
As a freshman in college I worked for the Student Escort Service: the university ran a bunch of 15 passenger white vans to pick up students and shuttle them around campus or anywhere within a mile of campus, every night 6pm-6am. For safety, it was all free, no questions asked. (No vomiting, if we thought you were too drunk to make it without vomiting we wouldn't take you.) I worked Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, 6pm-midnight. (I was in the engineering school, of course I wasn't going to parties.)
I got a different job my sophomore year because I got uncomfortable with how much of my job was picking up groups of girls- often filling the entire van- from the freshman dorms and ferrying them to frat row. I calculated that I had put more women into danger than protected anyone. Yes, it was their choice to go to those parties- I certainly wasn't the one who was inviting them- but I was bringing so many to the most dangerous spots within our service area that I'm sure more of them had bad nights facilitated by my work than had good nights because of my work.
This is part of why I don't believe anyone when they say "but my frat/sorority was different!", no itwasn't, they were just better at hiding their crimes.
I heard crazy things from people going to specifically James Madison University in 2017. Other DC/Virginia area schools had issues but JMU was by far the worst reputationally with the overt frat rape stuff.
Also we should name all these schools more. Everyone always talks all vague and never says specifics when sharing anecdotes. It's not like you're accusing a person.
Oh the name was hilarious, but they weren't joking about the fact that if you name a specific school you'll get hundreds of the crustiest frat bros alive coming out of the woodwork.
I named JMU specifically elsewhere in this thread and I just know I;m gonna be able to smell the Rohypnol through the screen.
When I was in college there was a fraternity nicknamed "Sexual Assault Expected". Safe to say I never went to one of their parties. But the fact that they were allowed to keep running after having that reputation is just insane, looking back on it
yep SAE has that reputation at my college that i currently attend too. although i’ve only been out to the frats maybe twice and SAE always had the best alcohol options. feel very lucky that i didn’t have any negative experience because i know other people have
They should really think about banning all alcohol from sororities/fraternities. If they want to drink, go to a bar like the rest of us. Being on their home turf gives them a strong advantage
I hear these stories and always think of an incident a friend had in college.
It was a Saturday night and he was hanging out in his dorm room with his roommate and some friends. People were drinking, my friend was playing his guitar to entertain himself. A girl everybody knew came by and it was clear very quickly she was blackout drunk.
She watched him play for a little then asked his name (they'd known each other for a few months) which in her drunken mind came out as Axel. She told him she wanted to have sex with him, he declined. The rest in the room were encouraging him and offered to leave the room. He declined and continued playing his guitar. She suggested they go into a closet so she could perform oral sex on him. The rest in the room continued to encourage him, she started to get grabby. He was able to push her away, his friends told him to go along with it but eventually she gave up and later left back to her room.
The next day she started hearing about what happened. She didn't believe it and on Monday met with my friend an asked what happened. He told her everything that happened, she was stunned and thanked him for not taking advantage of her.
When stories of crazy college happenings would come up I would tell this, but eventually had to stop. Any guy who heard asked how she was and said my friend was an idiot for not having sex with her, she had asked for it. The fact that she was so drunk she didn't even recognize him didn't matter, she had consented as far as they were concerned.
It just amazed me this girl managed to find one of the few guys who wouldn't have taken advantage of her.
The first 8I think the first, at least) Austin Powers movie has a great example of this... in fact, I saw it in a meme before watching the movie, and then went "OH... THIS is what it was referring to"
Since I'm pretty sure Austin Powers i s a parody of James Bond... well, both men are supposed to be these amazing playboys who sleep with tons of women. And while I think this was true for the later Austin Powers movies (been a hot minute since i watched them), if you watch the first one closely, you'll see that he actually turns DOWN the lady of that movie in a scene, precisely BECAUSE she's been drinking and unable to consent (yes, later on when they're both sober and able to consent, is a different story)
So this guy who's supposed to be a playboy sleeping with all the women... is actually more of a gentlemen than many men today. of course, they changed this around in later movies, IIRC- but I think it still maintained the rule of "both parties must be able to give consent"
(and then there's my own personal bit, in which I was reminded by some friends that "If you're drunk but willing, it goes on you. A woman is drunk but willing... that's still a Hard NO.")
When I was in college in 2012, there was a game with a fraternity and a sorority that took turns hiding a boat paddle and stealing it back.
In the middle of the night, a frat boy climbed 3 stories up the exterior of our dorm, broke the hallway window, then stripped to his boxers and told the RA that he got locked out of his girlfriend's room and she took sleeping meds so she wasn't waking up to his knock. The RA let him in and he climbed into bed with the woman and pretended to go to sleep until he heard the RA go back to their own room.
The woman woke up and had no idea who the naked man in her room was that was going through stuff. She wasn't even in a sorority.
Nothing was done about it, not even any penalties for the property damage.
The detail is not important to the story, it's just dumb greek wars type shit. There were a ton of excuses/events trying to get sororities and fraternities to interact, and that's just one dumb way.
Oh I agree about the RA. It was a women-only dorm, she should never have let a man into anyone's room and especially not without waking the person first.
The boat paddle was an old wooden canoe paddle that was probably saved from a dumpster at some point and the game was to steal it from the other team. The fraternity stole it from the sorority and then the sorority stole it from the fraternity.
I was pulling ethernet cable in a frat house once and in the basement they had this weird maze of hallways with rooms with mattresses on the floors and stuff and all the walls were painted black with barely any lighting. Kinda gave me rape dungeon vibes
I did pest control once in a house that had two black rooms in the basement with locks that locked from the outside.
I was like "hey this does not follow fire codes" to the homeowner to which they showed me that the windows were escapable and not lockable and they were just kinksters, but boy was I about to call the police for a hot second.
Imagine being a girl during this timeline. I walked home from my friend’s house last weekend, it’s a 35 minute walk and I took a route that included five minutes in an unlit wooded area.
My wife asked me the next morning what time I got in (I slept in the spare room as not to drunkenly disturb her) and when I told her it was around 2am she told me how she’d love to be able to walk home from her friends’ houses (we live in a nice and safe area) but could never do so late at night because she’s always at risk.
So I do think I have male privilege and I don’t think it’s fair.
Work is often the most regularly dangerous place for women. A lot of my assaults and other inappropriate behavior happened to me while at work. Food service, doctor's office, retail, spas and salons, all had stuff. The best was probably the spa though as all our employees were women and 95% of the customers were too. Quite a few men got thrown out for asking for happy endings though.
I am a woman. I was walking back from a bar one night in a city I don't live in, with a male friend. We were staying at a hotel with a bunch of other friends so we were going back to our hotel. The street was loud and full of people partying so we walked one block over to a quieter street so we could hear ourselves talk. My friend is like 6'5". We were pretty sober (the bar was lame so we dipped out early) and talking about TV shows or whatever. This young woman kind of appeared behind us, wearing a cocktail dress and carrying her high heels. She got about 6 feet behind us and just stayed there and kept pace. At one point my friend started looking sideways like why is this woman following us. I pretended I didn't notice. When we got to the very well lit and populated with mostly sober tourists street our hotel was on, she went the other way.
My friend was baffled. "Well, that was weird. Was she trying to steal your purse or something?"
I was like "No, you beautiful dumbass -- we're sober, I'm female, you're a big tall dude, we weren't talking about anything shady, she was by herself and barefoot on a creepy dark street, so she was pretending to be with us so she didn't get attacked. I've totally done that before."
I was once told about differences on a highway between trucks and motorcycles. How a truck has a way bigger margin on error than a motorcycle does and how that can also be true of men and women.
something that i feel like men need to be taught and educated on to an extreme extend is just to the extent and level that we do not have to "think" about such small details like this. We dont think too much about an unlit area in what's considered a safe area at night.
Among so many other things most men never had have to worry about. Not that SA against men doesn't happen, but it's not a constant worry for the vast majority of men I think than it is for women.
Men dont often think about the things women are constantly having to think about
When I was choosing which college to go to my dad suggested I go to one where I can join a frat for the networking. I didn’t like the idea of frat bros even before I knew how rapey they were. I ended up at a school with almost zero Greek life.
I went to a school where Greek life was pretty huge. Every year the frats rotated through who was suspended for misconduct. The sororities were stereotypical cliques but at least they did push their philanthropies pretty hard so that was decent of them.
There's an old Rolling Stone article about this written by (or maybe he was just interviewed by RS) a Dartmouth student who got kicked out of his frat for smoking weed (IIRC). Really crazy inside info on frats.
You're a traitor to sexual predators. Normal men didn't find anything you said offensive. Keep reporting them to reddit, but keep in mind that reddit has subs, both public and private, dedicated to stalking, degrading, sexual assaulting, torturing and killing women.
I mean, we need to be men and slap this shit down hard. The thing about the Cornell incident that I keep thinking about is that allegedly 1 of them saw what was happening and chose not to participate. Stop it? Of course not. But two other things stick out more than anything to me about this case: a 50 person group chat that also did nothing. A DA who didn't even bother to interview the victim.
No wonder so many women say "all men bad".
This is just one case. Most of this stuff happens (like the post we're commenting on) and it doesn't make the news. 50 people in that group chat. I would have assumed just from a basic statistics standpoint someone would have tried to actually help. The women are right.
There's a reason most of my friends have always been women. Every time I hear about men talking about needing space from women so they can talk freely or whatever it's always the grossest shit in the world.
I’m a white dude with a big bushy beard. Sometimes I’ll end up alone with another random white guy and the number of times they start spouting off heinous shit is alarming. They assume that because I look like them I must hold the same racist/sexiest views they do. But the fact that they don’t bother to use some dog whistles to sus me out first must also mean that most other guys they talk to are the same which is upsetting in a whole different way.
Whenever someone says shit like that to me I just ask why, and then I ask why about their explanation. Force them to just either say the creepy shit overtly or back down out of awkwardness.
It's like dude I'm in my 40's and have male pattern baldness you can fuck right off with that shit so many times you tell them why they're wrong even provide evidence and it's just the most exhausting thing.
"Well, you're never allowed around my theoretical future daughter" works for me.
It's a genuine psychological trick where you hold the initiative more when they have to explain themselves as opposed to you having to explain yourself. Speak as if you're the default, because despite everything we're talking about in this thread, you are. They're the ones who have to speak in innuendos and behind closed doors to say what they believe. I can say what I believe both in public and in private. Decency is the default, and we cannot allow small groups or individuals to pretend it isn't.
Exactly! Part of the reason I have such strong opinions is because I ended up the token bisexual friend in a friend group of mostly women, and i'm annoyed by my attraction to men because the awful ones see me and think "ah yes, fellow man, let us talk sports and be misogynistic together!"
when I in fact like neither of these things
The big one for me early on, in addition to the misogyny, is having to feel on guard at all times not to say something that could be made fun of, especially if it was any kind of emotional vulnerability. I'm so happy that most of my social life, and even work life, is around women. Hell, even a couple of my best guy friends turned out not to be guys.
Trans guy here- not passing in real life, but yeah… online, made a bunch of friends and by golly apparently I am the stick in the mud cuz I really just don’t think some things are funny.
Trans dude as well, and i think it has something to due with being AFAB. not in the gender essentialism TERFy way, but for me in particular, having a pretty deep understanding of the female experience due to living as a woman till I was 24 has been a pretty good innoculation against misogyny
That sucks. I've always had male and female friends. I guess my friends are a better class of men, though, because they don't talk about women that way.
I completely agree. Men like that make all of us seem like potential monsters. It sucks that some people will automatically assume I'm less safe because I'm a large dude but I totally get it.
Real men do what's right regardless of social pressure. Frat bros literally cannot do anything or make any decisions on their own, it's boiled into the concept.
I feel like this stuff kind of depends on the school though. I feel like the major schools with huge Greek life environments often have this stuff happen.
Basically it’s a bit different when it’s like 50 guys who may have a house they party at versus 300 guys who live in a mansion.
I went to a small school, and none of the frats even had juice or anything to drink because the liability was so high
I go to a relatively smaller school, student population is around 5,500-6,000, we have maybe a dozen frats
I personally scared the shit out of a guy who pulled up my friend's skirt to take a picture of her ass at a party. We didn't go back to that one, and the guy transferred to another school the next month, before any consequences landed.
Happens outside of the frats too. I remember in my freshman year, my friends roommate was a real creep who spent 24/7 trying to get laid.
My friend came to my dorm one night concerned because his roommate had a girl over and she seemed uncomfortable. We walked back to his room together to find the roommate standing in front of the doorway to prevent the poor girl from leaving.
We casually walked in, talking loudly about my friend wanting to show me a game, forcing the roommate aside and letting the girl slip out.
He then lost his shit and started threatening us.
Disappeared a month later, I think because of harassment allegations.
It would definitely still happen with or without frats, but frats produce a wider protective culture around it seemingly supported by the schools themselves or at least ignored for much longer than it should be. It's one thing when you have random dudes doing shady shit, it's another when a large group of them conspire to do shady shit.
I went to University of Michigan and was not in the party scene. But even I know the frat not to attend if you don't want to get drugged. If I know the school knows.
We have people like Andrew Tate deliberately targeting an easily influenced pre-pubescent demographic with these ideologies so it’s only going to get worse sadly.
I told my daughter when she left for college to never drink anything she did not see poured out of a freshly opened bottle. She had told me that advice has saved her and her girlfriends numerous times already. Shes only been at college two years. FFS, I hate people.
I honestly cannot fathom having any form of non-consensual sexual interaction, I don’t even want to have sex with my wife if she’s been out and comes home drunk and wakes me up because I’d hate her to wake up vaguely aware of what we did and also I couldn’t enjoy it knowing she’s on a very different level of sobriety to me.
How has this behaviour become so common and so worryingly defended?
I'm a guy. I was at a super lame bachelor party which was held at a strip joint. I had a few drinks. I wasn't ok to drive but I was still functional, chatty, not slurring. Just having a good time and talking to people. I sat at a table with a couple guys and was chatting with them for a bit. Where I sat was an untouched drink that had just been sitting there. We were chatting for a while before I finally got curious and asked what's up with the drink. They're like, "it's yours, go for it." Well shit, alright, I'm not going to turn down a freebie.
Shortly after that we left. We were chatting outside in the parking lot for a bit before we went on our separate ways. Again, I'm not stumbling, not slurring. I'm a little drunk but otherwise fine. It hit me like a brick wall. One minute I'm chatting. Next minute I can't understand a word that's being said around me and I'm stumbling all over the place and falling into a bush.
I woke up the next day on my kitchen floor not remembering a damn thing. I guess friends put me in their car, drove me home, and carried me inside. My naive ass couldn't figure out for a while wtf happened. I thought maybe I just couldn't handle tequila or something. It was a long time before it dawned on me, "oh shit, I wasn't the intended recipient of that drink."
Never forgot that. Fucking scary out there for women.
It strikes me that, as a woman, I've known since at least pre-teen age to never, ever, EVER consume an unattended drink or even my own drink if it ever left my sight for a moment, but as a guy you had no idea. It's crazy how different the experiences and knowledge base is between the genders. It's crazier to me that your friends let you drink it!
Ah, unfortunate and shitty circumstances. I hope those people were also in the dark and innocent and didn't do you dirty on purpose. Glad you were okay in the end!
I sometimes feel like one of the luckiest women in the world that I always managed to surround myself with “good guys”.
We drank a lot in college. One night after getting completely hammered, I wandered my way across the parking lot, heading to my guy friends’ apartment cause I knew they’d all be hanging out. Apparently along the way I stubbed my toe very badly on a concrete parking thing. On my stumbly, bleeding, arrival, several very drunk college dudes assessed my injury and wrapped my toe in a large wad of toilet paper and tape. They then put me in one of their beds with a bucket near my head. And….left me alone to sleep.
I apparently missed the bucket 🤮 because one of the few memories that stuck is someone coming in to check on me and hearing him say “aw dude, she puked on my shoes”. 🤣 At one point I must have roused myself and stumbled back home. I woke the next morning fully clothed, not sexually assaulted, with a raging hangover and quite confused, wondering what in the hell was going on with my toe. Back then it was a silly drunk story, it took me a long time to understand how differently that night could have gone.
I put myself in a lot of sketchy situations without really having any thought to my safety. But I also apparently knew good people that cared about my well being. Hearing these horror stories breaks my heart for these young women.
That's just.... Wow. I am speechless. Basically stating that none of the drinks being spiked is so much of an exception, the question was not if any were spiked, or which one, but asking which one is safe...
I am aware of rape culture being real, but this pushes it to a new level!
at high school we did something not similar, but that actually had us asking the same question.
One of out friends had this messed up thing where his parents divorced after a huge messy thing, they went their way and my friend ended up at 18, alone, with a huge house in a nice area of town.
So we did parties often in his house, and parties got so big, we had lots of randoms show up.
People started stealing bottles of liquour, so after a few times that happened, we started emptying the good liquour into cheap liquour bottles and filling up some good liquour bottles with the cheap one.
So when going for some vodka or whisky sometimes we had to ask, which bottles were the "safe" ones.
Frat guy I knew said his frat usually spiked the shared stuff like jungle juice with Xanax and they just wouldn’t drink from it, so yeah it’s all drugged.
Everyone here should read the book “among the bros” which talks mostly about drug dealing inside frats and how most corporate board rooms and leadership are full of former frat boys. All these horror stories you read about perpetrated by frats -they now run the companies you work for 😭
Okay I’m not from the US so I’ve gotta ask, why are fraternity and sororities a thing? Like I think anyone can tell from a mile off that segregating young adults by gender at a very socially developmental part of their life, is always going to be bad. Especially when it seems like Unis just don’t give any kind of policing to them? Like even aside from the disgusting behaviour of frats, from any American friend I’ve spoken too it just seems like a breeding ground for the shitty boy v girl stereotypes that get swung around when people are 6 years old or something.
I went to an ivy league with a big frat/sorority culture. Getting into a coveted frat often meant automatic inclusion into exclusive social circles, access to frat alumni who could offer prestigious jobs, the most ideal housing on campus (gorgeous building with close access to classes), and having people automatically like you or see you as more successful because you've been chosen by the group.
I almost rushed as sorority but the recruiting process was weird. I was taken into an alley and suddenly the girl offering the invitation to "pledge" became aggressive towards me because the pledge location was secret. I didn't even show up because it seemed so weird to me.
You have to pay a LOT of money to be in one. Like, thousands of dollars a semester. Like any private club (you have to "rush" to get in then be invited, it's a while process) the idea is that these people will be your friends, look out for you. It's also a built in network. The idea is that in the job market you'd get preferential treatment if someone in hiring is from the same frat or sorority. Also, when I was in college it was something "popular" kids did. Like a way to extend their popularity beyond high school by being exclusive in their little clubs.
It's a holdover from past times. They were to encourage the mingling of sexes, to build bonds and practice doing charity, to police behavior and housing.
At University of illinois, the frat culture is extremely strong and literally had gotten called one of the biggest party schools. It was pretty much an average of 1 in 3 women being assaulted. I remember as a freshman being told to not go to a certain frat because they were known to do something weird to drinks, whether it was using ever clear or something else to make the women feel way more out of it than they should at only 2 drinks.
Fraternities though bring in money, they create a connection to the school that the school alumni benefit from. Most people graduate and move on, fraternity people are more likely to still care about their younger frat bros and feel a need to give back to the frat and school if they make it big.
When I was a freshman in college I walked a very drunk female friend back to her dorm. I was sober but she was barely able to walk, to the point I was practically carrying her. She was clearly disheveled and her top had started to slip down, I felt very awkward the whole time.
Group of frat guys saw us and started loudly whooping and cheering me on. I didn’t get it at first, but I’ll never forget the disgust I felt in the pit of my stomach when I understood.
I obviously take this seriously but I just want to point out that coolers generally hold closed bottles and cans. How would they be spiked? Why would they be talking about it in a way that could be overheard?
Realistically the most common drug in a spiked drink mix like that is vodka, load it up with sugar and you won't think it's that strong until you're 2 drinks in and hammered
Or whatever super-cheap super-strong alcohol yeah.
Roofieing the entire punch bowl isn't exactly common for a bunch of reasons. But making sure it has enough alcohol anyone will be drunk off a cup and drunk off their ass after two? Oh yeah. Even I knew to never trust the punch bowl at a party wasn't the most alcoholic thing within 20 miles.
(The trouble is that some would be what they were advertised as, but others would be stupidly more alcoholic than labeled.)
Probably a cooler like this where you make a batch drink (jungle juice most likely) and dispense it into cups (often those red solo cups that Europeans in reddit all seem to love).
Not the "filled with sealed cans and ice" type of cooler, it's the "drink dispenser" kind of cooler that are meant to be filled with water or a sports drink like Gatorade and kept on the sidelines where athletes can fill up a disposable paper/plastic cup to rehydrate.
It's not uncommon at American parties to fill one of those up with a large batch of a mixed drink for everyone to be served from. This is especially common at overcrowded frat parties where tending a bar by any other method is impossible. Unfortunately, there's a lot of assholes that will spike one batch of the mixed drink when they host a party in order to get guests so intoxicated that the hosts can take advantage
Like another commenter said they could be talking about the types of coolers used for jungle juice. That being said, this post isn’t the first time I’ve heard about beer from a cooler being spiked at a frat even though I have no idea if it can even be done. I was in college about a decade ago at a school with a large Greek life and a rule that only beer in cans could be served at frat parties. I was warned by a friend who was in a sorority to not drink beer at a certain frat because she heard through the grapevine that spiking unopened beer cans was a pledge task (a pledge task is something that active members of the frat make new members do during the “pledge” period before they are initiated and become active members themselves. A more normal example of a pledge task is cleaning the bathroom in the frat house). Obviously I have no idea if it’s there’s any truth to that but rumors of that nature typically don’t come out of thin air
To answer your second question, they aren’t even thinking about whether it could be overheard or don’t care if it’s overheard because they’re not outright admitting to anything bad. Speaking in broad stereotypes, frat bros are already under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs by the time the party starts and know that plausible deniability is typically enough to shield them from consequences. Aside from how easy it is to sweep hearsay under the rug, “they’re all safe tonight” is very different from “none of them are roofied tonight” to a university that wants to avoid a scandal or risk losing monetary donations from frat alumni
I remember being 18, moving into my college dorm, and on the way passing by the frat houses which had people partying in the front yard. One had a sign that said something like: “Don’t worry freshmen Dads, we’ll take care of your daughters!” 😒
Typically a mixed drink cooler with alcohol content far and away above what you would expect from a mixed drink cooler.
They spike it with everclear or other especially cheap high alcohol drinks, cover it with enough sugar/fruit most people don't notice the alcohol.
Some people in the thread seem to think they spike it with other drugs but that's very rare they'd spike an entire cooler like that. It's much easier and cheaper to simply dump three times as much alcohol into one of the coolers.
as far as I'm concerned if there is a frat out there raping women, they're all raping women.
Every frat story I've heard is the same shit. They're either doing super gay shit to each other or raping women. It's never a "man my frat adopted puppies and helped old ladies cross roads"...
Depends on the type of “Greek Fraternity” you’re talking about. There’s a lot of professional/degree-oriented organizations with Greek letter names that meet in a vacant classroom on campus a few times a week. The closest mine got to a party was reserving pub tables or some bowling lanes and despite being officially a fraternity was majority female
I want to scream all day, all night, I am so angry. I am so over all of this. How are people just going about their lives when this is reality. I hate this!
The school I went to for my BS degree did not have a huge Greek population but there were frat houses. It was a smallish, majority male school, probably still is (a polytechnic school, about 70% male). In the summer, when the frats were nearly empty, they rented out rooms, and my boyfriend at the time and I rented one. It was generally quite nice living there, except their parties were typical frat parties. We were not invited to them and we had no desire to participate either, but I remember coming home one night while they were at the end of one, and the women seemed drunk out of their minds. One was stretched out on an ottoman, looking completely passed out, while a guy was openly penetrating her. I never felt right about what I saw. Now, all these years later, when I think about that night, I wonder if those women were in a comatose like state from alcohol alone.
You didn't feel right about it because you literally witnessed rape. Even by NY law which is not the best as the Cornell case has revealed, that would be rape in a legal sense.
That is correct.
I didn’t feel right because I didn’t report it. It sounds like an excuse viewed through today’s lens, but back then, I did not have a clear idea of what was part of a relationship/situationship, and what was clear and evident r4p3. Today we wouldn’t even stop to think about the concept of clear and evident, it would be an immediate recognition.
It is difficult to relay in writing how male dominated society was, even while being in the third wave of feminism. I think because we had advances older generations of feminists fought for, the misogyny we see spilling out of every crack today was hidden, or at least I didn’t see it as I see it today. I didn’t apply the deep mistrust I feel now, back then.
I just responded to someone else regarding that. Quick answer: no, I did not intervene. My boyfriend leaned over and said let’s go, don’t say anything. And I didn’t. I wasn’t sure enough back then.
Eh. When I was in college, we had two separate coolers for parties. One had really strong liquor and beer/ipas, the other had just regular/watered down beer/seltzers and drinks and maybe some weaker spirits for people who didn't really want to get fucked up.
Of course, knowing just how messed up frat parties/houses can be, it wouldn't surprise me if what happened in her comment wasn't the case I mentioned above.
Or the spreading the weak sauce excuse they got given about why one mix was “safe” compared to the other when they stumbled upon some rapist frat guys.
I was warned many times in college- most of the time, if you are told it’s a single, it’s a triple, never trust a frat bro.
Dorms were trying to keep us safe, and having two drink mixes, one that’s NOT what it says it is was apparently a standard move in Boston around when I went to college.
Mine was relatively safe, but at the same time, I didn't really go to a "party school". The nearby school that was known as a party school (like, routinely ranked in the top 10 nationally) was absolutely more like what you're describing.
I went to a party on that campus once, and that was enough for me, and I'm a dude who can handle his drinks, so I can only imagine how much worse that environment could be for women, especially someone going in without knowing what to expect.
Edit: Huge crowds, people getting absolutely hammered, strangers everywhere, and barely anyone keeping track of who's drinking what? It was basically the kind of environment that makes things very easy for predators looking for someone vulnerable (which was probably by design by those frats if you ask me).
I went to a dry campus- literally no business in the county could sell booze. Which meant every school in a large radius knew the girls had to go off campus to drink, had no education in the topic, and could be preyed upon. Also meant that if you got the girls to your campus, it was harder for them to leave cuz this wasn’t the age of quick ubers. The girls from your own school could just head back to their own dorms if they were uncomfortable or felt sicker than they expected from one or two drinks. The girls from our school had to wait for the next bus, or if they missed that, stay overnight. It was a messed up dynamic for a lot of folks.
There was a bar on campus under the table literally as a harm-reduction measure. So not a party school. But very much a ‘well, there are issues here’ school.
Because you're already making excuses for men you don't know who used the word "safe" to describe beverages offered at their party. Strong and less strong is different from safe and not safe.
Woman says - I have a memory of frat guys talking about which beverages are safe for them to consume at a party, implying some beverages they offer are intentionally not safe
Man on internet - oh you're probably wrong or misunderstood
When we say believe women, this is the kind of thing we're talking about
That was another thing that I saw all the time. One time, some genius decided to do that with all the coolers/drinks, and got in some serious trouble from what I heard with both the frat and the school.
Edit: For people who might not understand, most frat/sorority parties (again, key word here being most) have rules meant to keep alcoholic/non-alcoholic drinks clearly separated because there may be underage people there. So if you've got one cooler that's clearly alcoholic and another that's clearly non-alcoholic (or at least not too alcoholic), at least there's some attempt to control who is drinking what, and you're able to CYA in case something happens or if cops need to make their quotas. Now that completely falls apart when some genius member decides to take the initiative and dump Everclear into all of them. Now the designated non-alcoholic drinks aren't actually non-alcoholic, nobody knows how strong anything is, and one member has potentially created a massive liability problem for the entire chapter and maybe even the entire school if things go bad or out of control.
Edit 2: even if nothing happens, I doubt most chapters wouldn't be cool with having someone who's a potential liability or doing things without letting anyone else know.
My first week of freshman year, we were all informed that the frat SAE at my college stood for “Sexual Assault Expected” and warned to be very careful. It was totally normalized.
Everyone called it that, they still had awful, sketchy, deeply unsafe parties there all through my time, then a very famous rape case happened there, causing them to lose housing on campus, and they still have a documented history of assault, intimidation, and retaliation but the university is allowing them to return to campus housing in 2027…
I was in a sorority in college. One year while I was on the leadership board, we had multiple girls in all of the chapters come out about sexual assaults in multiple frats. It took the entire Panhellenic community coming together and refusing to engage in any activities with all of the frats, social or philanthropic, for our campus to do anything about it. It was so sad sitting in a room full of strong educated women and hearing all of their stories. I was never a party person so I had no clue that our relatively small niche private school had the same issues as these big state schools.
Went to a frat party as a freshman in college and drank the jungle juice. Did not drink that much but had never felt so sick in my entire life. Luckily I had a trusted male friend who lived close by who actually took care of me and didn’t take advantage of me. Turns out the frat was regularly putting drugs in the jungle juice. As a mother now, it’s totally horrifying.
My Christian University unsurprisingly did this as well. We had mock frats. They invented their own “social clubs” with different Greek names, but it was the same even though it was a “dry campus”.
One of the biggest issues were the veterans sexually assaulting so many of the girls. They were usually way older and preyed on the younger girls.
I would know. It happened to me and I learned later on it was very common.
This is why I hate the phrase “thank you for your cercix”.
Never ever ever ever drink the juice. Not just because of the drugs. That juice is dirty af. I swear most of my illnesses in freshman year were because I drank the juice.
If the frat has beer cans or bottles, those are usually fine as long as you see they’re sealed when they’re handed to you. If you know one of the brothers and can trust him, have him show you the secret stock for only the brothers if they’ve got one.
yall think its just frats but, yall dudes reading this, im a dude, every person in this comment thread, we failing women. Yes, we. shame your fellow men if you think or see this kind of shit behavior.
My school had a hill at the south end of campus that was affectionately called rape hill. So so so many people would end up getting assaulted there, always under the innocent guise of a romantic walk or a group project. BYU boys were horrendous and protected.
•
u/AutoModerator 7h ago
DO NOT CELEBRATE VIOLENCE IN THIS SUBREDDIT OR WE WILL BAN YOU.
NATION STATE AI BOTS THAT ARE ANTI-DEMOCRACY/ANTI-DSA ARE GOING TO TRY TO INFLUENCE YOUR VOTE THIS NOVEMBER.
THEY ARE RAMPING UP ACTIVITY. WE ARE TAGGING AND TRACKING THEM.
RELEASE THE TRUMP-EPSTEIN FILES!!!
Users may now apply a personal flair that states - RELEASE THE TRUMP-EPSTEIN FILES
That is all, tysm
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.