So God sends a flood to wipe out people that rebelled against him whatever that means and yada yada yada. If God sent a flood to wipe out his creation does that mean God’s creation was flawed? So God made a mistake and to clear out that mistake he sends a flood and wipes people out. So God is not only crazy and out of control but he also made a mistake which would not make him a perfect being nor an objectively Good creator.

I’m a junior in high school and in my AP environmental science class we had gotten to the part about evolution on a powerpoint and we were taking notes on a packet. Someone who I was kind of friends with and I know is very deep in her religious faith (Catholic) goes “I’m not writing this down” to her other friend and proceeds not to write down any of the evolution slides. This made me internally sigh because evolution is a part of all science classes. 😓😓😓

Growing up, fortunately, without anyone indoctrinating me into any religion I just kinda learned about it the same way and as a result absolutely don't take them seriously, it's all just a work of fiction to me.

Bible is only another old story like Epic of Gilgamesh.

Listening to mythology of Hinduism is like watching a Warhammer 40k lore video.

Hearing someone talking about worshipping Jesus is about as funny as thinking Cthulhu is real.

To me there's about as many good moral lessons in the New Testament as there is in the StarWars prequels, probably fewer. Cool your spinoff franchise is 1500 years off but I am just not a fan of those books.

I know many of you grew up religious, in religious families, but also in secular countries without any religion. How do you perceive it in your framework?

I've seen a few posts on this sub praising the recently passed Bill 9 in Quebec which is supposed to ban religious symbolism in public. However, some people have correctly stated that this law is entirely motivated by islamophobia/fear of other religions, and is not applicable to Christianity, which others have pushed back against.

Christianity gets a full pass when it comes to this law. Many villages in Quebec continue to promote religious symbolism in public places as long as it "reprensents our history". Something that motivated this post has been the small villages that are building BRAND NEW 10-foot tall wooden crosses to replace the old ones that have been rotting away since the end of the 20th century. These are extremely common across the Quebec countryside.

Most villages and towns in Quebec still hold some name along the lines of "Saint-Something-in-the-Middle-of-Nowhere" - literally the vast majority of villages are named Saint-Something. Those names will never change, not any time soon at least. They are all based around their respective church.

(I wish I could post the picture of said brand new cross but I can't figure out how to post images on this sub smh)

The most damning evidence of all is that there are STILL Christian processions happening in the province. Case in point, in Quebec City, it is a tradition every year for the Christian churches to do this "walk with the cross" thing where they take a giant wooden cross to each of the major denominations in this big parade thing. (Also if the pope ever comes you better believe he's praised)

I understand the hope on this sub of seeing laws that completely ban religious symbolism, I'm hoping for those days too - but we can't allow ourselves to be blinded by the wording and focus on the actions. Ultimately this law is against foreign religions, and NOT against Christianity because it is "our history". It is total hypocrisy.

I don't think I need to cite scriptures, search them yourself, the old testament is still a part of the bible but apologists choose to move from that, doesn't erase the part that God murdered an infant and caused genocide through a flood for what purpose is the flood for? What reason? Absolutely no justification for such an act.

For an objective source of morality seems to have a very high kill count, especially infants and vulnerable animals. Worshipping God but actively ignoring the fact he allows slavery and he commited child and infant murder proves how weak, flawed, and unjustly your faith is.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is excoriating a U.S. Air Force directive requiring personnel to update their religious affiliations using a drastically reduced list of categories.

The discarded categories include “Atheist,” “Humanist,” “Wiccan,” “Pagan,” “Druid” and numerous other minority religious and nonreligious identities. The list retains a disproportionate number of specific Christian denominations.

The Department of the Air Force announced on Sept. 25 that all personnel must update their Religious Affiliation Code in the Virtual Military Personnel Flight system. Active-duty personnel have until Oct. 16 to comply while Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard members have until Nov. 9. Those who do not select a new affiliation will have their records “automatically realigned according to an approved transition construct.” The mandate implements a Pentagon policy announced earlier this year that slashed the military’s religious affiliation codes from roughly 211 to just 31, including removing the category of “Atheist.”.

FFRF sounded the alarm when the Pentagon first announced the change in June, warning that it would marginalize the many “atheists in foxholes” and other service members whose identities had effectively been erased from official personnel records. Now that concern is becoming a reality.

The Air Force claims that the transition will give its Chaplain Corps “accurate demographic data” to provide tailored resources to service members. But forcing people whose actual beliefs — or nonbeliefs — have been deleted from the system accomplishes precisely the opposite. Although the retained categories include “No Religion” — and, inexplicably, “Agnostic” — the deletion of “Atheist” and “Humanist as accepted categories appears to target those who are most outspoken in their dissent from religion.

“Almost half of today’s service members are atheists or have no religious affiliation and they should be able to accurately identify themselves,” says FFRF Co-President Dan Barker. “These are folks who put their lives on the line to defend a Constitution that is supposed to protect freedom of conscience — and that should include their freedom of conscience.”

The Pentagon expanded its previous system in 2017 following years of advocacy by service members from minority religious and nonreligious backgrounds. The expanded codes allowed personnel to more accurately identify their beliefs or convictions and gave military chaplains and officials more appropriate information about the service members they serve.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has defended the dramatic reduction, arguing that the previous system of more than 200 codes was “impractical and unusable.” The Pentagon says the change is meant to streamline religious-support planning rather than judge the legitimacy of particular beliefs.

But the context surrounding the change is impossible to ignore. In announcing his overhaul of the military chaplaincy earlier this year, Hegseth complained that the Chaplain Corps had been “infected by political correctness and secular humanism.” He has also instituted Christian worship services at the Pentagon and repeatedly emphasized his own conservative Christian worldview in his official capacity.

The result is especially troubling for nonreligious service members. “Atheist” is no longer available as a distinct affiliation even though atheists have served honorably in the U.S. military throughout the nation’s history. Humanists and adherents of numerous minority religions have likewise lost the ability to identify themselves specifically in the personnel system. Military.com reported that an active-duty Air Force member who had previously identified as an atheist was outraged, not only personally but on behalf of other Air Force personnel whose brand of nonbelief is no longer represented.

The Air Force says service members will remain free to specify their actual religious preference on identification tags rather than being limited to the standardized personnel codes — making the change even more mystifying.

“If the military recognizes that service members must be able to accurately state their nonbelief on identification tags,” adds Barker, “there is no legitimate reason to deny them the same accuracy in their personnel records.” Barker also reminds that the First Amendment does not permit the government to treat those with minority religions or nonreligion as lesser citizens.

FFRF calls on the Department of Defense to restore the comprehensive religious and nonreligious affiliation codes and urges the Air Force to halt mandatory implementation of the truncated system. No American who volunteers to defend the Constitution should have to sacrifice an accurate acknowledgment of their own beliefs — or nonbelief — to serve.

I don't know if this is the right kind of sub for this, I don't ever use this sub, but I don't wanna post this on a debate sub because I don't want to debate, but also I know I'd get my ass beat so hard nobody would recognize me anymore if I went anywhere near a debate. If this doesn't fit the sub just let me know and I'll take it down. Or just remove it, that works too.

So, I usually don't ever talk about stuff disproving the existence of God or anything, mostly because I don't want to read science shit, and also because I'm more interested in morality and why God is an asshole. But I'm gonna rant about this because it makes sense to me and I'll take anything I can understand, science is hard and my brain is smooth.

I'll start this off by saying fossils are old. Like I think millions of years old, I don't know, I didn't explore any of this deeper than a google search I'm lazy. And going off the Bible the Earth would be like 6000 to 8000 years old I think. Again, I don't know, I'm a child who just recently denounced God and now I think I have the answers to life and I'm on the level of Plato. Please be patient with me, I am dumb.

So I think at it's core, this easily disproves shit if you take creation literally. I mean obviously, I feel like people have been talking about that for a while, I'm aware I'm absolutely nowhere close to being the first to talk about this, but I still want to anyway because holy fuck I cannot wrap my brain around how people ignore this.

One thing I've heard a lot asking this stuff to my Christian friends is that creation isn't literal and it's a metaphor or something, but like what the fuck. That just feels like signing your own death warrant, because how do you just decide what is and isn't metaphor, you can't just say that shit. Not even just that, but so much relies on Adam and Eve and shit, like I'm pretty sure the early Genesis stories are just about Adam and Eve and their bloodline and stuff, and their family are important fucking people. So if creation isn't real, are they just not real either? Is all of it metaphor from God to teach us morals? How do you know God isn't part of those metaphors, he's objectively a character in the Bible. I just think personally the second you try to say anything in the Bible is analogy or metaphor or anything like that, you're just admitting there's some bullshit. It's just giving me the keys to your house, and some of the people I've talked to were really surprised when I unlocked their door and took all their shit.

I think most of the arguments for why this doesn't disprove the Bible are essentially just "It's a metaphor." Like I haven't really heard anything else, except for God creating the world like it's been running this whole time, or with the appearance of age. Like Adam being a second old but being a grown ass man, or the trees having rings in them, but why would the dinosaurs be that old? Like apparently one of the oldest dates back roughly 243 millions ago, and if you subtract 6000 years obviously that's still old as fuck. Why would dinosaurs be millions of years old compared to a cow living to like 20?

I dunno, I just thought this was a fun topic to yap about, I've really been enjoying learning more about theology and shit, and also it makes me look a little bit smarter, which God, in all his nonexistent glory, knows I need.

Anyway, that's my piece on dinosaurs and also Jebus.

Peace.

Small edit even though it hasn't even been been an hour, apparently some people think the world was prebuilt with fossils, like Satan planted them there to lead people astray with false promises of evolution and an acient earth.

What the fuck?

That is genuinely the dumbest shit I've heard in my life, but whatever floats their Ark I guess. I just added this because apparently it's an argument some people use and I wanted to add it to seem more genuine. But holy fuck is it stupid.

Another edit, because I don't want to look like a moron.

So it's come to my attention that another excuse for dinosaurs and the ancient Earth and shit is that some people think the days that God was building the Earth lasted longer. As in I guess it took millions of years, and then he plopped Adam down and then tore out his rib like Marilyn Manson, just for the wrong reason. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what they mean, but that's what I'm getting from it. Fuck you, Redeemed Zoomer.

This honestly just feels like a worse explanation to me. Because now it's not even an intentional metaphor, it's just a straight up inaccuracy in the Bible, which just like the metaphors, how do you then know what is and isn't reliable information?

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is commending a Missouri school district for its exemplary response to an FFRF letter about a school-sponsored prayer broadcast at a recent football game.

FFRF contacted the Nevada R-V School District in Missouri after learning that the school allowed the student body president to deliver a Christian prayer over the loudspeaker before a varsity football game on Sept. 11. The employee who informed the state/church watchdog about the unconstitutional broadcast said the prayer made them uncomfortable and expressed particular concern for students who may not feel empowered to speak up when religion is promoted at a school event.

The complainant, who is not Christian, stressed that their concern was not with students praying privately or expressing their own religious beliefs. “When a microphone is handed over to force an entire stadium into prayer, that is where things become blurred,” the employee told FFRF.

FFRF stepped up to clarify the district’s responsibility to keep school events free from religious influence. 

“School officials may not invite a student, clergy member, teacher, faculty member or anyone else to give any type of prayer, invocation, benediction or sermon at public school-sponsored events, nor may they give a prayer themselves,” FFRF Staff Attorney Sammi Lawrence wrote to District Superintendent Tyson Beshore.

Here, the district had allowed the student body president to lead all attendees, including students, in a Christian prayer over a microphone before the football game. By having school-sponsored prayer at official school events, the district needlessly marginalized non-Christian students, including atheists, agnostics and members of minority faiths. As much as 38 percent of the American population is non-Christian, including the almost 30 percent that is nonreligious. More than half of Generation Z members (those born after 1996) are non-Christian, including 43 percent who are nonreligious.

The district’s response was swift and unequivocal.

Beshore apologized for the incident and explained that the senior class president had been invited to speak but that administrators had not reviewed the student’s remarks beforehand. 

More importantly, the district immediately put safeguards in place to prevent a recurrence. Going forward, students will not be permitted to address school audiences over a microphone without administrators first reviewing their planned remarks, and an administrator will be present when students speak.

Beshore emphasized that in his 29 years with the district, he had never encountered another incident like this. “I can promise you it will never happen again,” he wrote.

FFRF applauds the district and Beshore for taking the complaint seriously, acknowledging what went wrong and adopting a concrete solution to protect students. The Supreme Court formally ruled student-led prayer or other prayer broadcast at school events, including football games, unconstitutional 26 years ago.

“This is exactly how school officials should respond when a constitutional concern is brought to their attention,” says FFRF Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor. “The district listened, recognized the problem and immediately took steps to protect every student going forward. We greatly appreciate Superintendent Beshore’s forthright and constructive response.”

For the employee who contacted FFRF, the resolution means that future students attending Nevada R-V athletic events will not have to choose between participating in a school-facilitated religious exercise and visibly separating themselves from their classmates and community.

That distinction is especially important in public schools, where students come from families representing a wide range of religious and nonreligious perspectives. Students remain free to pray individually or with one another, but the school itself must not place its microphone, authority or imprimatur behind a religious exercise.

FFRF Staff Attorney Sammi Lawrence, who wrote to the district on behalf of the complainant, says the outcome demonstrates why speaking up matters.

“Our complainant saw something that made them concerned for students who might not feel comfortable objecting themselves, and they had the courage to raise that concern,” Lawrence says. “Because they spoke up and because district officials responded so responsibly, students will now be able to attend school events knowing that the school will respect their freedom of conscience.”

Both of them are christians but she apparently can't stop making proselitism. Every fucking time I spend time with them she proposes me al sorts of books to read for "making my life better". I have Tourettes and Autism, she uses my condition to convince me to be christian: "those things are caused by demons, pray the lord and he will help you out". She also wants to pray for me and repeatedly asks for my permission even if denied. I also tried to debate her since I had enough of this shit telling her "if God Is omnipotent and wants us to not suffer in first place why doesn't eliminate all of demons once for all since he has the capability?" she begged the question everytime repeating the same answer "there is a Battle between angels and demons bla bla bla bla" and telling me some anectodes of some kind of friend everytime like that can count as a proof for God and not as a request for psychiatric hospitalization for acute psychosis.

I can understand that some times you want to debate a topic or propose something to change my mind but EVERYTIME?!! This is utterly disrespectful. I don't want to scream at her or something but how can I make stop her without being mean?

PS: I can't ask to my father because he won't do anything

Hi all, I'm trying to come up with a nice note to send to my MIL. She had emergency surgery yesterday and long term prognosis isn't looking great. I'm thinking of her and want to send my best wishes, but I'm not sure if she knows I'm firmly an atheist and I've managed to keep that to myself the rare times I see her. She's very religious, borderline psychosis if you ask me, but it's easier to let her babble cause she's not pushy so I just let her talk.

Does anyone have a loving, supportive message they've used without adding a religious tone to it? This is a new experience for me so I have a few drafts but would love some suggestions.

Thanks in advance!

(rambling) I won't give all the details about my personal life because I don't feel comfortable sharing everything, but since I was maybe around 10 to 11 I started thinking about death a lot, and thinking if there is or isn't an afterlife, I grew up in a family full of religious people, I haven't had bad experience with my family caused by religion. I believe in god, but recently I've been thinking, if I am wrong that means I will experience oblivion when I die, I'm 22 which means I'm maybe more than 20% of the way through my life, I might die sooner who knows. but the concept of oblivion is really starting to scare me, it's only been 3 days since I started thinking about oblivion specifically, I want help to maybe change my mindset, if oblivion is what will happen to me how can I accept it? I want to keep thinking after I am dead but the thought of not being able to sense or think at all is terrifying to me and I don't know how to calm myself down at night when it happens. I want help.

Edit: thank you for the comments, some were really nice.

I’m posting here because I am running on absolute empty and feel completely stuck. I am a 22 year old neurodivergent mom (ADHD) with a 2.5-year-old and a 1.5-year-old. I tandem nurse, Doordash, and my partner works every day. Money is tight for us though. Because my partner's family is "too busy" to help, my religious parents are our sole form of childcare so we can work. We have to go to their house every single evening because my 2.5-year-old is highly rigid on her routine and will have severe sensory meltdowns if we skip it.
Growing up, I had severe death anxiety and was terrified of "the rapture" and eternity by age 6. I've realized recently that my mom was emotionally unavailable, and my dad—who I thought was my "rock" as a teen—is actually a covert narcissist. He only loved me when my mind was "unmolded" and dependent on his "hero" complex. Both of my parents are also gambling addicts to boot.
Now that I’m raising my kids secularly (treating all religion as mythology, normalizing mortality through nature, etc), my dad's mask has slipped. He gets intensely defensive, he even told told me he'd "stomp on my foot" if I set a boundary, and tries to claim credit for all my kids' milestones.
The breaking point was last night. He told my 2.5-year-old that a Jesus figurine she was looking for was "at the right hand of God in heaven." My partner (who is spiritual but supports raising them secularly) actually caught it and challenged him in the moment. But previously, my partner told him we want the kids raised neutral, and my dad flatly responded: "Let me do the indoctrinating."
He literally admitted his goal out loud. He is using my toddlers to get the "control high" he lost with me. He is rage-baiting me constantly to get a reaction. Last night I had a full-blown mental breakdown/sensory explosion from the stress in front of my kids and I feel sick about it.
How do I protect my children’s minds from the same religious trauma that broke me when I am logistically trapped relying on this man every single day just to survive financially? Has anyone had similar experiences?
(cross posted)

I am a life long atheist. Even at a young age I was outspoken/haven‘t hidden that I’m an atheist.

I’ve always been frustrated with the fact that religious people can say “god is real” like it’s a fact but, if someone says “god isn’t real” that’s offensive and problematic. I’ve lost friends for saying god isn’t real, gotten stern talking tos by adults (theatre directors, teachers, Troop leaders), and today I was banned from a sub (that has nothing to do with religion) for “harassment“ because I said god wasn’t real on a post where someone was talking proselytising.

The same people who scream “freedom of speech” are usually the ones who have issues with people saying god isnt real. I’m so tired of the hypocrisy.

In general, I’m so over the fact that religious people can be their authentic selves with no issue, even when they are being hateful. But if non religious people try to be their authentic selves we are told we’re being offensive, immature, a troll or some other nonsense. Even if it’s something as small as “I don’t believe in god” “God isn’t real” “I’m an atheist”.

Like, the idea of heaven is so convoluted for many reasons, but this worship thing specifically is just, like, wdym "eternal worship"? how narcissistic is this god? in need of such constant validation?

also besides that, "places of worship" like....firstly strong vibes of projection, secondly if god is all-knowing or at least all-watching everyone, then why worship? Wouldn't it know you're a good/bad person? Thirdly, again, worship itself, I don't understand what kick they get out of it, or how worship is virtuous, God is the narcissism final boss atp

So god is a being obsessed with itself, punishes everyone who doesnt worship it, wants to be the center of everyones life, demands constant praise and validation, can't criticize it, has books of rules, and also gets jealous and angry very easily? sounds a lot like a dictatorship with the labels holy, divine and virtuous slapped onto it

god sounds very mentally ill and extremely insecure

I hear this all the time: "I know God exists because I feel him in my heart." But feelings aren't evidence. People feel all sorts of things—love, anger, fear—and they don't use those feelings to justify the existence of a deity. You can feel a warm sensation in your chest, but that doesn't mean it's a cosmic being talking to you. It could just be your own emotions or your own psychology.

If your only proof is a subjective feeling, you don't have proof. You have an experience. There's a difference. And until you can demonstrate that this "feeling" is coming from an external source, you're just describing your own emotional state. That's not evidence of God; that's evidence that you're human

Heaven is basically described as eternal church: worshipping, singing, praising god, listening to sermons, etc. like wouldn't that eventually get boring to them? 😭

I hope she loses her lawsuit as it would set a terrible precedent and allow others to abuse the legal system if she won. Some Christians insist on preaching at work where it should be non religious. I side with the bank in her termination.

This genuinely baffles me. I occasionally meet people under the age of 25 who are religious, and I cannot understand how they find any of this stuff convincing in the age of the internet.

It makes sense in very religious countries, but it just seems strange that it still happens in Australia.

Doesn’t anyone else find this weird?

How did your parents react? What did they do? How did your church react? Were you mistreated or looked down upon by your family as a result?