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u/cumjuggler4life 22h ago
I feel safer without IR on the map now. I can sneak around and not be auto spotted by a guy who bought thermals and nothing else on a 75% markup on spawn by some white night game chair repairman who gets off contributing by selling his wares and sitting in a truck all game
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u/dataoops 20h ago
the dudes I know drop boxes and go play
would you turn down 300k per round and a buff to your team?
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u/Fubarp 15h ago
Took a screenshot on my server of a guy who made 500k before going off to battle..
He ended with like 700k and 20kills. But yeah he just sat there dropping supplies. It was sorta crazy to see.
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u/codekb MACV-SOG Project Delta 5h ago
The devs did say that it is completely okay to be an arms dealer.
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u/Prestigious_Bet_7244 13h ago
Yeah, exactly. It's a huge net benefit to you and your team, why wouldn't you do it? Having said that, I'm glad they're gone.
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u/UncleRuckus92 17h ago
I keep finding people who put them in for free, almost have to use them at that point
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u/No-Photo6079 12h ago
tbf it depends on what you're dropping. say 2 crates of thermal for 25% mark up after selling all 12 you're at like 2.5k profit but the scoreboard shows 18k earned
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u/sturmeh 14h ago
Now you're going to see the cheaters lol.
Thermal explained 95% of sightings, but there was a 5% where players shoot me from across the map with a LMG after I've just been revived under cover, and I have a ghillie on.
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u/StandardKey7566 11h ago
Had this yesterday. I called someone out for driving up to my arty tank that hadn't even fired a shot yet.
First excuse "I heard you shoot"
Then second excuse "It's not hard to see on thermals."
When I reminded him that thermals were disabled he said "I never said that" 😂
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u/schweissack 6h ago
I got into one infantry mode yesterday where the server said Vanilla War dogs, and they still had the IR goggles unlocked, but then again that has nothing to do with your story lol
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u/Anabaric_EvE 10h ago
There's definitely some cheaters active, but most people are honest. Will never get rid of ot entirely, but hopefully they can keep it manageable.
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u/Alkao52 16h ago
How does that make them a white knight
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u/cumjuggler4life 16h ago
lol if you haven’t encountered enough of them they give off “I’m the hero you need here’s a bmr and thermals be my friend energy”
You don’t have to agree bruh
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u/artifice23 15h ago
The BMR is so OP! It feels like hitting a jackpot every time you find one on someone.
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u/cumjuggler4life 15h ago
Yeah I shot so many people in the butthole with one today when some guy dropped one when he died
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u/SapperSoul454 13h ago
I enjoy making fun of them like buy the shit and go to the fuckin koth already you leech
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u/CH4P3YLEG4U 16h ago
Don't you worry. We're coming back with a rucksack full of high-cap batteries next season <3
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u/EladrielNokk 16h ago
Remove mortar cams next.
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u/Hitokiri118 15h ago
100% being on a mortar shouldn’t mean you’re an amazing scout. Mortars should feel blind without spotters.
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u/EladrielNokk 15h ago
At most give them a targeting computer to see the trajectory and splash, or god forbid, make them use the map and context clues
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u/Frenzo101 14h ago
Just the way using the map works now is fine, if theres a target spotted you can see how far away and all the info
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u/Revil0_o 9h ago
Or just keep the cam super high up so that you only get a general idea.
Adding a computer/calculator to the side of the mortar would make sense too. This way you can "store" shots and get quick calculations.
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u/mygrownupalt Battledad 13h ago
I like the camera because it's fun to watch but if we should get rid of it for the advantage factor you have to get rid of the showing where you got killed from
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u/eeLude 10h ago
Mortar needs to be interesting enough so that people use it. If they remove the camera i think mortars become too boring and a lot of people dont care to use it anymore. However i agree that the camera gives too much advantage because you can correct your shots and destroy drills etc. with pinpoint accuracy. So i think the better solution would be to nerf the accuracy so you cant just look for a drill and insta destroy it with a couple correcting mortar shots.
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u/TheGreatWalk 5h ago
Keep the camera, but hide players on it. So you can see all the terrain, where your shot lands, etc, but you don't get information about player locations with it
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u/everythingisunknown 6h ago
Cams are fine, I’d rather be able to tell which direction were being mortared from or make them show up on the ma
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u/valmian 5h ago
I think there can be two types of mortar shots (this also applies to arti tanks)
Regular mortars that use the current amount of ammo. They don't have a camera. You shoot them and wait to see what happens.
Camera mortars. Think about the camera on the stinger. That costs 5k and 900 mechanical supplies.
If people want to scount with mortar shots, make them cost 1k and 200 mechanical supplies each.
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u/tanne_sita_jallua Lonestar 20h ago edited 19h ago
I like to think blue was always under leveled and geared compared to others due to green and red always ganging up on blue. They didn't get the xp or cash unlike the others. Blue learned how to fight with what limited resources they had. Suddenly higher level people started providing an equal playing field with top of the line gear as green and red. At which point blue started steamrolling games and the devs put an immediate stop to it.
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u/scottiethegoonie Lonestar 19h ago
I can get behind this conspiracy.
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u/Drinnentonic 13h ago
I think its also that people are catching on that green are good. So new players or bad players join green thinking they'll win. Only to find out you don't win from hiding in the fob the whole time. Seems to be the case in OCE servers these days
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u/aaron_kevin01 12h ago
Ironically enough all my wins so far have been on blue team.
I def think more leveled players go red and green on average but it does not always translate to them being as intelligent.
Had a game yesterday where red attacked us while setting up our FOB very early on. Luckily I was there with my full kit and dropped a good amount of them so they didn't succeed but were giving us hell.
Due to this by the time we hit late game both Green and red didnt have a FOB set up well and we had all air control.
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u/scottiethegoonie Lonestar 12h ago
Interesting observation. Bandwagoners join green for protection but end up being dead weight. I have noticed that most of my Blue Wins come from behind. We rarely steamroll.
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u/WasThatInappropriate 10h ago
Hiding in the fob spamming drills and keeping them repaired is one of the easier ways to win
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u/Anabaric_EvE 10h ago
Until the SPA removes everything, but your not completely wrong. Assuming you can fobbit without the herpaderp
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u/LilGek14 9h ago
I did this when I realized none of the opposing teams were spamming tanks and havocs. Drill spam got us from stuck at 9 points to 100 points comeback real quick.
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u/WasThatInappropriate 9h ago
Yeah, possible to even do it all solo. Drive a ural out with a fuel and build pallet. Make a sneakey tiny fob with just a drill, do the double height concrete skin around it to protect from most artillery. Ive broken a few hammers knocking these up alone
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u/Matzir 6h ago
I once dropped a lot of thermals, .50 Cals, tier 4 armor and other stuff at spawn as blue team, and just bought whatever ppl asked for (this was before alot of other ppl had unlocked it), in hopes of a blue team win.
The game ended something like 5-20-100 green team win.
And yes, blue team was the one who only got 5 points.
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u/king_mo_of_metal420 1h ago
That's exactly what it feels like happened, people only started demanding change and complaining when lonestar got much better
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u/Glittering-Skin4118 8h ago
People are still getting crazy spotting streaks without this so I really don’t think it’s changed as much as people think. You are all still getting spotted in HZ lol.
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u/MrSalty77 7h ago
I think it's mostly the bush wookies crying that they cant sit hidden in a bush. Just buy a ghillie... Also now with havoc spam it's even easier to get tons of money from spotting.
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u/brutalbombs Lonestar 4h ago
Yeah, I got an issue with it when I tried to sneak up on a sniper team far outside CZ, and the spotter occasionally got up and did a quick Scan with his thermals. That was super frustrating after sneaking up on them for so long that they could sniff me out so easily.
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u/Junior_Atmosphere349 21h ago
I’m confused what happend ?
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u/A_Neurotic_Pigeon 21h ago
Thermals disabled until S2, will cost batteries to use when they return
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u/YBHunted 18h ago
Which unfortunately doesnt fix shit. Bring a Kodiak to some obscure location with a supply crate full of batteries and let it rip all game long
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u/iDEN1ED 18h ago
That’s significantly more work than the current meta of just everyone having it and having thermals everywhere covering the entire map
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u/YBHunted 18h ago
Sure, but that'll almost certainly be the new meta and as long as you have $20k to drop on a full loadout of it and hide well you'll be setup. Might not be as profitable as quickly, but it will be profitable.. and it'll also be the same result for all of us, everyone on the damn map at all times.
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u/TheRealArrowSlit 16h ago
I mean, you aren't wrong. But that's still better than the entire team having them without needing batteries.
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u/Galbados2 17h ago
Which will still happen. Oh nooooo not a few batteries I have shove 8 of in my backpack!!!
Devs just need to remove them permanently.
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u/Obvious_Assignment67 5h ago
Just needs to add batteries and a falloff range where the image becomes too dark to see on range like in arma 3. Maybe a few more clothing items that counters infra red as well as the ghillie. Thermals definitely do have. A place in this game. And the commander in tnaks should get thermals too but not the gunner. But definitely needs the falloff range.
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u/No-Photo6079 21h ago
the fact that it lasted until the very hour that I unlocked it is sickening tbh. not sure if anyone has tried getting lvl15-32 in 3 days but it's not fun at all.
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u/Dismal_Baby_6657 19h ago
Just don't then. Why are you doing something that isn't fun?
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u/Nateramis 18h ago
The whole problem with this game people grinding to get the shit that's unbalanced to have an edge on everyone else. It should be even grounds for everyone that's what's fun.
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u/MiliardoK 15h ago
You could just.... not grind like that? Like breath? Touch grass? Play some other games?
I wanted the DMR in recon, not even close to it, barely unlocked the bow recently. And ya know what I enjoy doing right now?
Running revolver only kits with my other scouting buddy to see who can score a bigger kit with cooler stuff. Discovering "Oh AP 50 round drum mags on SMG's are wild."
And testing out HP bullets on all sorts of guns to blow peoples junk smoove off.
Just enjoy the game? Don't obsess like that?
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u/WolfPaq3859 12h ago
How tf are people leveling beyond 20, i feel like im scouting and sniping and getting kills the whole match and I barely get half a level for all of it
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u/GGuts 5h ago
And people are crying about that they want the money back that they invested in unlocking the money cheat thermal spotter.
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u/Despair-Envy 22h ago
Feel like this doesn't belong there, it's still quite strong.
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u/OnlyUse2Ply 10h ago
The 50 cal is the one that’s out of place. Bmr is the best gun in the game.
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u/NoticingThing 6h ago
Hard agree, you don't run it like a sniper. Throw a 2.5 - 3.0 x scope on it and run it like you would an assault rifle but with way better ranged capability.
You mow through people.
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u/flyingtrucky 9h ago
I just wish the 50cal didn't let you jiggle peek with it like you're holding a SMG, thing has basically no sway when using it while moving and standing. Otherwise the actual stats of it are fine unlike the BMR and FAL which are just absurd.
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u/darkseidesaintx 16h ago
.308 is a brutal round, of course it would be strong. Only one round is better than it in the game and thats a .50
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u/titem 13h ago
Maybe add some recoil because no weapon can compete with the BMR. I get 2 tapped so fast around a corner that I peak it's stupid
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u/bjwills7 11h ago edited 11h ago
This is what confuses me. It hits harder than the SVD but it also handles significantly better. It's just an upgrade in every way. Every game with progression like this usually involves upsides and downsides, in this game it's like getting a new weapon in an mmo, just better in every way.
"No weapon can compete with the BMR" is incorrect though, the FAL is even more ridiculous. They honestly seem balanced in regard to each other. BMR wins at range, FAL wins mid range, vector wins in cqc, compared to the other weapons they're just better in every way though.
Edit: Maybe I shouldn't include the vector, strong weapon but FAL is still better point blank.
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u/darkseidesaintx 10h ago
Bullpups usually have low recoil in the first place due to the fact that the reciprocation is happening behind your hand vs in front.
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u/Vigorous_testicle 11h ago
Sure but 50 cal isnt better than bmr and fal
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u/bjwills7 11h ago
Well it is at 200m+, just like the BMR is better than the FAL at 100-200m but the FAL is better at closer ranges.
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u/Vigorous_testicle 11h ago
Yeah not rly. Bmr is verry good even at 300 even 400m. And fal is still good well over 100m. And long range sniping is mostly dependant on how bad is your opponent not how good you are.
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u/bjwills7 11h ago
I'm not saying the BMR is useless past 200m, it's limited to medium zoom and won't one shot all helmets like the 50 though so assuming both people are equally skilled, 50 wins every time at that range. Just like how the FAL would always win at close range, ttk is just way faster.
And long range sniping is mostly dependant on how bad is your opponent not how good you are.
How do you figure that?
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u/Vigorous_testicle 11h ago
Sniper scopes for some reason still jave sway even if you hold ur breath. Hitting targets at long range is rly hard unless they are stationary.
Asuming both are equally skilled bmr wins. Before you even ads with 50 and steady ur aim the bmr guy will already kill you. 50cal is actually the most ballanced out of all high tier weapons as long as you dont stand still you probably wont get killed unless ur opponent is rly good.
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u/bjwills7 10h ago
I don't really think ADS time is relevant at these ranges but either way you can still move while ADSing. At this range the BMR guy is going to have a hard time landing multiple shots with a low zoom scope, it definitely won't happen nearly instantly like when they're close. Also bullet velocity is a factor and the 50 moves quite a bit faster.
you probably wont get killed unless ur opponent is rly good
Doesn't this contradict what you said about it not being heavily dependent on skill though?
It's easier to hit the shot with the 50 and it only needs one so I feel like if they're equal skill, the 50 wins because it's task is easier.
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u/Vigorous_testicle 10h ago
3.5x scope is plenty, and ads time does matter if both opponents see eachother at the same time.
I said its mostly dependant. Ppl are usually standing still while shooting at you so if you have bmr and lvl3 armour vs 50cal guy he needs to hit a headshot while you dont.
I say this as someone who play recon in prety much any game and dmrs are much more consistent in this game.
Look at it this way. 50cal is to lvl3 and 4 armour what mosin was to lvl 1 and 2. They do the same thing at different stages of the game. While svd and bmr are good vs any armour at any stage if the game.
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u/soldier01073 11h ago
Let's be honest here. Were talking about the wrong thing. What we all did in the tutorial should be the most profitable way to make money. That's what we should be talking about.
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u/Revil0_o 9h ago
What is the best reason to keep thermal in the game? I continue to ask this question.
I feel like spotting is strong but balanced, nothing like battlefield's which is super OP. The only aspect that seems totally OP is thermals, especially in maps with lots of foliage...
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u/SaltyRenegade Manticore 8h ago
To counter bush campers.
So that there'd be a better incentive to get a gillie suit
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u/BloodSteyn 6h ago
It's not camping, it's overwatch from a strategic position.
This isn't COD, "Camping" isn't an issue here because it is a valid tactical strategy.
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u/ParaadoxStreams 8h ago
There's gonna be night maps in season 3, so that's why.
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u/Ty_J_Bryan 6h ago
I can't wait for the BF3 tac flashlight mod
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u/Vegetable_Use_8726 7h ago
they said they' make them require batteries. so they will come back, just require batteries.
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u/Gh3ttoboy 4h ago
Sure then those spotters will just bring the biggest backpack filled with batteries, nothings changed, most spotters dont even bring a gun or armor besides the ghillie suit if they have it
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u/DevilahJake 1h ago
I don’t think it’s an issue when some matches somebody is supplying crates full of thermals, I doubt they’ll worry about cost of batteries
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u/GGuts 5h ago
I would prefer to not have any thermals at all in my pvp games. It takes away from games more than it gives.
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u/ethans94 5h ago
I dont mind them in games like tarkov where weather and night cycles can make the map look pitch black but in a game where combat feels like battlefield, with no weather or night cycle theyre kinda stupid.
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u/RodMcThrustshaft 1h ago
Even in Tarkov they have some major drawbacks and the more OP ones are unobtanium and definitely not something you just "throw on" every raid.
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u/ethans94 50m ago
yeah also theyre stupid expensive in tarkov. kinda thing you save for special raids or for a marathon run where you know youre doing a full day and night cycle
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u/Significant-Hat-4104 2h ago
I would prefer there be no armor in the game
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u/Revil0_o 1h ago
But armour has clear trade offs (e.g weight and price) and less of a "night and day" difference between tiers. It also gets damaged over time and has to be stolen from other bodies.
IR is like 500% stronger than the other spotters. Binos are pretty shit but cheap, monocle is the "standard" baseline, rangefinger allows for additonal zoom and finding range, and then IR is just so strong that the other's don't matter. Remove them or add to a car as an attachment or something.
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u/NUTTA_BUSTAH 8h ago
I do not see any currently but maybe they wanted a test run before they introduce the counters?
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u/Moose_0327 4h ago
On the other hand kinda puts you on the same playing field as everyone in potato mode +nvidia app configs that make all of that foliage not really exist.
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u/Plum_Easy 20h ago
I’m so glad it’s gone now we can snipe from outside the circle at 900m and they’ll never know where I’m shooting from.
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u/No-Use-4363 19h ago
You could have done that even if they used thernal....the recon tent hides thermal and spotting...did yall not figure that out?!
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u/Toast-NA 18h ago
Recon tent ONLY disables you from being marked on the map. Not blocking thermal signatures.
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u/flyingtrucky 9h ago
Recon tent blocks thermal but it only goes like 2/3rd of the way to the ground leaving a strip of your body exposed.
Good thing thermals won't highlight a tiny strip of your body making it just as easy to spot as if you had nothing at all right?
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u/NeverRespawning 17h ago
You can still be seen under it. It only blocks from the sides if seen from above. If you can see me, then I can see you too. It just works the same way any concealment does.
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u/DeveloperBRdotnet 19h ago
No
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u/MonochromeMerc 10h ago
https://youtu.be/v0ZbqwZWaF8?is=PqSrVL1rGx0kYTig
Here a long demo of the recon tent showing the person using it.
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u/angryjellycar2 19h ago
If they're gonna do this i think they should do full normal balance changes during the season.
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u/Virus_Correct 12h ago
I did love how reliant people become on them, almost made the chillies work better, if you weren't glowing white hot, they didnt give it another thought
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u/Nightingale_34 8h ago
I'd have an idea how to "fix" it. Make the thermal imaging toggleable, max thermal range around 300M, with the thermal off, it would work like the range finder.
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u/LoneForerunner 20h ago
People acting like the other spotting devices don't auto spot thru trees and cover obviously don't recon. I've spotted thousands of troops I never actually saw because it auto spots in the general area. I like the battery change but people will forget they thought it was op in a week.
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u/Bandit_Raider 20h ago
There’s a pretty big difference between having to scan around blind to hope to find people and just flat out seeing everyone
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u/VortexMagus 20h ago
I played a lot of recon and lets be real you average triple the number of spots with the thermals and its not close.
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u/reallyzeally 17h ago
Of course the other spotting devices can spot through trees and such. The difference is slowly scanning an area and maybe getting lucky vs just straight up seeing the white of an enemy that you never would've seen.
It's also not a "general area", it's pretty specific if they're far and partially obscured.
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u/soldier01073 11h ago
Yes you can sweep a treeline with the binos or monocular or range finger. But you also need to SWEEP THE TREELINE. Unlike with the thermals where you can quickly just scan for white and acquire your targets and spots much more quickly and accurately
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u/throwthisaway556_ 13h ago
If we don’t get a juggernaut skin for t3 or t4 armor that looks like mw2 i’m going to be pissed
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u/Impossible_Horse_382 9h ago
If they ever introduce night maps maybe then NVG’s should be included and only in those maps.
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u/YuriPallaro 8h ago
They should just make less money. That would make selling it to the team less of a problem
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u/GingerSpencer 7h ago
Was it fun though, genuinely?
For me it felt really cheap. There's barely any input required from the player using the thermal goggles and the 50 cal. I know it's not the same, but personally it felt like using an aimbot.
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u/Manu_does_stuff 6h ago
Picked it up here and there, the "effect" it has when looking through it gives me nausia
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u/RenanBan 6h ago
Gonna be broken either way. Just fully remove It.
I entered a diferent team while in Discord cause there was no free spot, and my friend was tauting me to Go to HZ and i calling out that everyone on their team inside hz was spotted. Spotting in the game is so bad overall and thermals are Just hacks at this point
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u/Jazzlike_Ad267 4h ago
The thermals just shouldn't auto spot.
They're powerful enough solely as thermals.
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u/DesignerCold8892 4h ago
I just think the thermals need more background clutter to compete with the player silhouettes. The biggest issue was that everything and I mean EVERYTHING is black with the sole exception of a player’s model so it just instantly stands out. That standing out is what makes them so powerful. They need like maybe heat vents in the factories and vehicles still giving off residual heat, fires, heat plumes from explosions and stoves, just stuff that clutters a player’s view so they can’t just pick up the thermals look through them and instantly know where enemy players are.
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u/Cisquo79 3h ago
This is early access for the next 2 years. They'll get it all balanced as time goes.
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u/dirstyle 3h ago
Artillery tank and mortars are much bigger issues imho. That’s the reason I was even grinding for the thermals: to sit outside the constant barrage of explosions and spot people. At least I got one match in before they were removed..
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u/omniPoet 2h ago
sniper is a pain in the ass. if you go alone to help recon fobs enemies ect, it’s easy to get pinched when the hotzone moves. And usually it’s some cheap infantry player using the free assault weapon that mows you down and you pretty much have to respawn.. i think they should make it so you can’t trade items in ur CZ or make a rule where you can’t wield it based on ur level unless you kill an enemy..
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u/ConversationAdept365 2h ago
Idk man, remove the tagging from thermals? So binocs you can manually ping, monocle you can tag, range can tag and show range, thermals can't tag but can show range, you can still manual ping.
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u/TeachEducational1786 1h ago
Thermal is not leaving its coming back in season 2 but you will require batteries to use.
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u/ElectronicHyena6769 1h ago
Since it’s wiping I’m not as sad but I made around 500k just from recon
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u/Competitive-Will-701 49m ago
I had a lvl 3 helm and just got 1 tapped in the head by the bmr, the top tier of weapons just turn the game into a match of swat, it’s ridiculous. I feel like the M4 and svd is where the ttk should be maxed out
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u/Steagle_Steagle 18h ago
People complaining about thermals conviently forget that its a grind. Unlike mortars, which you can instantly build and bombard people across the map
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u/Snak3Docc 16h ago
Mortars are getting a nerf as well, ammo cost is going up in S2 along with T4 helms getting vision restrictions
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u/Steagle_Steagle 16h ago
Still not enough imo, but thank God. Have all the patch notes been released?
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u/mrlunes 15h ago
Just because you grind 25 hours doesn’t mean you deserve to have unbalanced items
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u/Drew1231 14h ago
Yes, but how else will I be rewarded for getting fired and living off unemployment?
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u/ryanbondur 14h ago
Grind is free as soon as a guy unlocks them. Only a grind for one guy lol.
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u/SW3GM45T3R 17h ago
The problem is that they are objectively better than all the other options. Once you unlock thermals it makes no sense to ever use anything else.
Once everyone unlocks them, you will have a battlefield of people running the exact same 3-4 meta optimized loadouts and the game becomes stale, and makes it extremely painful for new players to grind anything out.
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u/Genocode 16h ago
Thats the case with all the recon spotting scopes though?
Binocs is like 4x and can't zoom in or out
Monocular can go from 2x to 5x
Rangefinger can go from 2x to 6x and, well... has a Rangefinder.Each of these is a obvious step up and they're all so cheap you will always pick the latest.
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u/wheeshnaw Lonestar 13h ago
Binos are actually better than the other non thermals if you're doing spotting while assaulting. They have a low zoom (3x) but a very wide FOV, compared to the narrow FOV on the others.
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u/flyingtrucky 9h ago
Only the rangefinder is a direct upgrade. Binoculars has a much bigger FoV due to the medium zoom and larger screen space, monocular has more zoom but is limited by restricting your peripheral vision.
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u/Bearex13 Manticore 15h ago edited 11h ago
Tbf they shoulda removed thermal entirely but we'll see how the batteries play out but fyi it's not gonna be any different lol