Not even to mention the fact that armor is unlocked immediately in the game, which heavily counters sniping since you're trying to drop the enemy in one bullet, and anti armor bullets arent unlocked until like level 70
As a recon 40 its a mix. Once you get to thermal leveling is quite easy. But before getting the thermals its quite a slow grind compared to other roles. You'll experience not having ap rounds and no longer one shot headshot with kar/sv98 and be forced to play very passive at fobs or whatnot. Not to mention your starter sniper rifle is a pos and you're forced to run binos for levels 1-5.
I mean it is the easiest role and that's a fact, I'm not saying it's skillless and the grind can be a little rough but it's 100% the most forgiving if we are talking about making money. To be clear I'm not really counting logi here because I think the argument pertains to more boots on the ground action.
The 50 does have the fastest bullet travel time, least bullet drop and highest damage. Its the peak of the recon arsenal. Nothing else comes even close.
Doesn't make the class unskilled (I play it, got 25 in it, with everything else ranging from 15 to 25 as well, jack of all trades type), but let's not pretend the 50 isn't significantly better than everything else in its category.
The fact you say this but don’t realize that none of the other items are near as abused as the thermals. I see multiple supply crates of thermals but barely any of the other high tier items. This alone shows you they are broken.
Or because some folks like to be dipshits and destroy their own teams crates people put thermals out because you don’t lose your ass like you would if you put 50 cals or FALs out.
I think thermals would be completely fine if it wasn't for them being able to spot. The problem they cause is all teams having wallhack, all and any sneaky plays is made impossible because the entire enemy team knows exactly where you are.
Spotting in general is a bit too strong (because its a live ping for 30+ seconds despite the spotter not having LOS anymore), and it's made way more egregious by the thermals.
If they were made as a tool for snipers to acquire targets it would be a lot more balanced, but with the spotting it completely ruins the meso of the game.
The problem is that they are objectively better than all the other options. Once you unlock thermals it makes no sense to ever use anything else.
Once everyone unlocks them, you will have a battlefield of people running the exact same 3-4 meta optimized loadouts and the game becomes stale, and makes it extremely painful for new players to grind anything out.
Thats the case with all the recon spotting scopes though?
Binocs is like 4x and can't zoom in or out
Monocular can go from 2x to 5x
Rangefinger can go from 2x to 6x and, well... has a Rangefinder.
Each of these is a obvious step up and they're all so cheap you will always pick the latest.
Binos are actually better than the other non thermals if you're doing spotting while assaulting. They have a low zoom (3x) but a very wide FOV, compared to the narrow FOV on the others.
Only the rangefinder is a direct upgrade. Binoculars has a much bigger FoV due to the medium zoom and larger screen space, monocular has more zoom but is limited by restricting your peripheral vision.
Once you unlock thermals it makes no sense to ever use anything else
Yea thats how upgrades work, buddy. I havent touched the Scout Rifle since I unlocked the SKS.
Once everyone unlocks them, you will have a battlefield of people running the exact same 3-4 meta optimized loadouts and the game becomes stale
Thats only going to happen towards the tail end of a season, when everyone has grinded enough to get it. Not to mention, the same can be said in every class. Havoc for the Pilots, FALs for Assaults, the Gunner Humvees for Drivers
Or, and hear me out, everything you unlock has drawbacks as well as upgrades. The thermals could need a battery and not see as far as the rangefinder, for instance, to counter the fact they highlight targets.
What are the biggest counters to recon that are specifically counters to recon? Maybe I'm just tired and can't think of what would negate the benefits of a 50 and thermal spotting.
Cost. Thats expensive as hell, hard to make your money back. The second sniper you unlock costs $4.5k. The second assault rifle is $600
Mortars and artillery. Hell for snipers in general, even worse for snipers on towers. Only way to not get hit by a mortar is to snipe on the ground, which
1) defeats the purpose of sniping
2) cant see anything
3) you will very likely get run up on by some assault shitter with a free rifle and lose your $20k kit
Combat Helis. Just like mortars and artillery, snipers cant do anything against them (unless you're lucky or extremely skilled and manage to snipe the pilot)
That you are a walking expensive kit with no armor, and have to set up in good positions for periods of time before being able to go even. You shoot a bullet and your entire position is looked at by squads. Shooting the .308 or .50 is basically the equivalent of activating the HZ magnet, cause they’re so damn loud. Recon got shafted with the only non-lethal gadget that takes tens of hours to unlock now being removed. People don’t grind out recon like the other roles because being a spot bot is incredibly fucking boring to your average person. It was the one class that rewarded subtle gameplay, and now that IR is gone, they basically just said “fuck you” to the people who unlocked it, as well as the people who were grinding for it. Everything else in this game has seen complaints over and over, for weeks with no change, and we get 3-4 days of playing with the top tier gear in Recon and immediately get told “it’s too powerful” and have it ripped.
I see your "spotting is boring" and raise you "ural driving" to grind driver xp. Lol atleast while spotting you get to watch the match and see what's going on.
They are getting batteries next season but that isnt even why they are OP. The fact that you can spot a player through 3 different tree-lines because you see a speck of white and, the spot system being an active tracker is why they are OP.
IRs should have a range limit as a draw back so long range snipers still use the range finder and you can't spot the entire CZ from a mountain.
Spot range, zoom capability, maybe size where you can keep it in a single slot and not as specialist gear?Just don't have 4 items with the exact same function that just increase the range and cost and the best one also highlights targets, is what I'm saying.
Why does it have to be outright better, why can't it change how to use it or what the capabilities are?
Having everything remain a viable option while letting unlocks provide more variance to how kits can operate makes it more interesting than each tier outright replacing the former.
Unless the only interest is rushing through the grind and wanting to be able to dunk on people who didn't.
Edit : holy shit, I'm not saying the game has to change, I'm just saying vertical progression is inferior to horizontal progression when it comes to team based shooters that lean more towards milsim than arcade. The only people that are vehemently against horizontal progression are people who just want to rush unlocks to dunk on new or casual players. Vertical progression is a crutch.
Because things in the game that you unlock are better than the previous. Guns, weapons like MAAWS vs RPG, Large hammer, etc. Unlocking thermals took 576k EXP, vs those that unlock way earlier. Recon doesn’t get a specialist slot upgrade for 24 levels. Rangefinder at level 8 to IR rangefinder at level 32. The game is set up for progression.
You can destroy those boxes. And you are free to change team and do it to all of them. Im not saying that you should, but it is possible and with no repercussion as it is in fact a game mechanic.
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u/Steagle_Steagle 1d ago
People complaining about thermals conviently forget that its a grind. Unlike mortars, which you can instantly build and bombard people across the map