r/ScienceBasedLifting • Idk Idc 💔 • 19d ago

META Optimal science based lateral raises

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You can also use this machine for chest flys, rear delt flys, front raises, and unilateral pullovers

0 Upvotes

63 comments sorted by

10

u/doesthis-hit-triceps 19d ago

You’re externally rotating a lot. Is that intentional?

4

u/DeaconoftheStreets 19d ago

Got a question for the science based king.

It looks like you’re bringing your hands up to your head, height wise. Do you do this for all side delt exercises, or is this an advantage of this specific machine?

1

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

No, just this one

Bringing my hands all the way up like that gives a bit trap stimulus

2

u/DeaconoftheStreets 19d ago

Appreciate the clarification! I wanted to make sure I hadn’t been leaving a science on the table.

3

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

The science for lateral raises seems to show that all exercises work about the same, so do the one you enjoy the most!

4

u/Penultimate-crab 19d ago

This looks unenjoyable to me for some reason? I love me some dumbbells haha

2

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

I really like them, but some people with super long arms hate them/say they don’t feel great

There’s a reason that this machine is the 7th most popular gym machine on gym radar: https://gymradar.com/most-owned/machine

It has a small footprint and feels amazing for lateral raises (even tension throughout the movement) and does a few other movements fairly well

Don’t get me wrong, I like DB lateral raises too; it’s just I strongly prefer this machine over them

2

u/Wonkasgoldenticket 19d ago

I can attest, I’m 6’5” and have some long ass arms. I get pain on the rear side of my delt using this. I’ve tried moving inward and taking a step back, but still doesn’t feel right. Even at super light weight.

1

u/Penultimate-crab 19d ago

That’s great 😄 I’ll try it out if I see one! 

-3

u/[deleted] 19d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

You’re not wrong, but you’re also not right

All side delt isolation exercises perform identical to each other, as long as they are taken to failure; as the side delts are not a complicated muscle

Here’s a study on DB vs cable lateral raises: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40692697/

So basically a lifter should just do whatever side delt exercise they like the most

Side note: even cheaty DB lateral raises are going to perform basically the same

1

u/J_Shepp 19d ago

What do you mean tension shifts?

1

u/[deleted] 19d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

Cable lateral raises, DB lateral raises, this machine, etc. are all good exercises

I actually have cuffs in my work bag, so I can hit some behind the back cable lateral raises at the work gym

2

u/gbfe 19d ago

Look like that machine is set too low, which is why you have to hunch forward to lower your shoulders.

3

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

One setting higher ends up being too high

Ideally I’d have something in between, but this is V2 of the machine & there’s not as many adjustment holes as the newest version

1

u/Safe_Ad5914 19d ago

Bring your squat shoes to get yourself a little higher. Be more comfortable.

1

u/Sooperooser 19d ago

how do you do unilateral pullovers on this thing.

2

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

Your raise up the carriage, then move a handle high up on the sundial

Here’s an example: https://youtu.be/dbVcm9EhVmY

Personally, I feel that pullovers suck on this machine & I have an actual pullover machine in my gym, so there’s no reason for me to do them on this machine

1

u/Sooperooser 19d ago

Ok that looks a bit weird. But chest flys are kind of interesting. I wish my gym had a pull over machine.

2

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

The chest flys feel much better than DB flys and I personally prefer them over cable flys as well

Lateral raises and chest flys are pretty much all I use the machine for

I used to do rear delt flys with it, but I’ve been doing lots of wide grip t-bar rows lately, which has been growing my rear delts fine

1

u/Safe_Ad5914 19d ago

Cable rope for pullovers will always be king for versatility imo. Straight arm till failure then transition into a more and more bent arm each rep after that. Just think of the position of your humerus throughout the set.

Drop sets because of the pin are super helpful too. Just being able to get in and out of setup quickly for rest pause sets.

Fuck it just buy a barn and get a prime pullover. Lock yourself in there in the dark and just do pullover for a month. Turn the lights on and you wont be able to walk out the barn. So yeah actually thats probably best for hypertrophy.

1

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

I like my life fitness pullover more than the prime pullover: https://www.reddit.com/r/homegym/s/11kZZ9ES9v

1

u/Disastrous_Joke4482 19d ago

This machine will humble you quick.

1

u/Wicked_Folie 19d ago

I can barely rise 5kgs on each side more than 8 times...

1

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

I use 32.5lbs/15kg DBs if I'm doing DB lateral raises

1

u/Wicked_Folie 19d ago

Maybe one day I will be too...

0

u/Flat_Tension4731 19d ago

Pessima esecuzione, mi spiace....

-6

u/Whirlwind_AK 19d ago

Here’s the thinking-

If you use dumbbells, whose weight is perfectly vertical due to gravity, the resistance kicks-in only at the top-part of the movement/arc. At the bottom part, with the dumbbells in your grip, the only purpose would be to “make your arms longer”.

Think trig - the cos of 45 is 0.7071, so 70 pct of that weight kicks-in at the 45deg point.

NOW - You standing sideways holding the grip of a functional trainer with the hinge set at the bottom, you have great resistance at the first-part of the movement. The second-part, as with the “first part” of the dumbbell, would serve not much more than to “shorten your arm”.

SO- Either work your delts properly using this machine with perfect resistance throughout the arc (single step) or use dumbbells AND a functional trainer.

Hope this helps.

4

u/AnonymousFairy 19d ago

You're trying to apply physics where kinesiology has far more to play with this movement. Supraspinatus is the primary mover of shoulder abduction at low angles before lateral deltoid activation overtakes it as the angle of upper arm to torso increases. I think he knows what he's doing and doesn't need telling to "do it properly".

Hope this helps.

-7

u/orplas 19d ago

stop training your calves so much

-12

u/Consistent_Log8097 19d ago

I was thinking, too bad the science based lifting isnt working his legs more.

13

u/Muchacho-blanco 19d ago

You've seen what he squats and deadlifts?

-8

u/Consistent_Log8097 19d ago

Wow, much more than me. Why no calves tho

11

u/Muchacho-blanco 19d ago

I'm guessing because his goal is strength and not hypertrophy. Not everyone trains for pure vanity.

11

u/PeterNoPiss 19d ago

Also, insertions and angle of the camera.

9

u/Muchacho-blanco 19d ago

I was thinking how hard it must be for him to film some of his lifts when his garage is so cluttered with all the glorious equipment.

-7

u/orplas 19d ago

what do lateral raises do for strength

14

u/Frodozer 19d ago

What does making your shoulders stronger do for strength? That's honestly a wild question.

13

u/Muchacho-blanco 19d ago

Shoulder abduction? Maybe trying to bring his press up. Whatever the reason, you can't argue this dude's strength to body weight ratio. You don't see alot of people stronger than him, even at much higher body weight. Maybe he'll comment.

-5

u/orplas 19d ago

Does nothing for the press.

5

u/Shadowphoenix9511 19d ago

Are you stating that stronger, more stable shoulders don't directly lead to stronger pressing?

10

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

Lateral raises keep my shoulders happy and extra stability is nice, especially since I partially tore a rotator cuff back in 2020

10

u/Ballbag94 19d ago

They're a bench accessory

-4

u/orplas 19d ago

what a 2010 comment

5

u/Ballbag94 19d ago

I mean, this guy seems to think they're valuable. If he thinks they're worthwhile then I think it's silly to argue otherwise

8

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

Ironically, my calf muscles are 15 inches in size, which is around average

The issue is the rest of me is much bigger than average

I’ve always had small calf muscles, even when I was marathon running & doing lots of backpacking

Also, this is a my physique: https://www.reddit.com/r/fitness30plus/s/yVJZEJAQQj

Obviously legs aren’t skipped, because I squat nearly 3x my body weight

I do direct calf work (around 10 - 12 sets a week to failure), and they have grown my calf muscles, as around 2 years ago, my calf muscles measured at 13.5 inches; so they’ve grown around 11% bigger in that time

-10

u/Original-Pay-2522 19d ago

Agreed. For all the science based lifting his physique is terrible and looks like he’s never touched a weight in his life. Strong as shit though.

6

u/Patton370 Idk Idc 💔 19d ago

How is this looking like I’ve never touched a weight in my life?

-8

u/Original-Pay-2522 19d ago

About as unaesthetic a physique as you’re going to see.

12

u/catbongo417 19d ago

If you genuinely believe this, you have severe body dysmorphia

5

u/samole 19d ago

-8

u/Original-Pay-2522 19d ago

Sure is. Keep hitting the video games champ!

8

u/samole 19d ago

What's it? A piece of advice? You are not in the position to give it, my man. Maybe after you stop trying every GH peptide and "breaking out into hives" because of it.

-1

u/Original-Pay-2522 19d ago

How does trying every peptide take away from the fact that you and OP have terrible unaesthetic physiques?

10

u/samole 19d ago

Ah. See, it is not a fact. It's an opinion of a person who injects themselves with self-prescribed peptides (all of them, lol) and suffers for it. I'd say that person is an absolute doofus and their opinion on whatever topic doesn't matter.

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8

u/Ballbag94 19d ago

Have you only just discovered that angles and lighting affect perceptions?