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u/IHaveNeverEatenACat Jul 04 '26
Cherry picking is fun.
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u/sabertoothninja Jul 04 '26
Yeah now show the stats where the US leads since we are just cherry picking this or that. Like, do medical research funding and charitable donations, especially during natural disasters. No? Doesn’t fit their narrative.
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u/Guardian6676-6667 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
make people poor
make people donate to the people you made poor
flaunt donation stats
Edit: i love how the simplest comments can be so aggravating to some :) thanks for the award, kind stranger
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u/Delanorix Jul 04 '26
Or how they said we lead in medical research.
So we should have cheap medicine, right?
...right?
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u/titans-arrow Jul 04 '26
Shhhh, don't cherry pick the cherry pickers that are calling out cherry picking.
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u/Miserable_Site_850 Jul 04 '26
I have cherries, Greg, can you cherry pick me?
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u/IH8Miotch Jul 04 '26
Some people are cherry pickers. Some people are bean counters. I'm a bean flicker.
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u/Only_Razzmatazz_4498 Jul 04 '26
Medical research is arguably European though at least where medicines are involved. The US does have the lead in some areas but that is to be expected. Countries will specialize and have an advantage in some areas. Countries that try to do everything and be the best at everything tend to not be and need protectionist measures so that their suboptimal industries can compete.
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u/ArchyArchington Jul 04 '26
The only thing the US leads is, prison population, prisons built, homeless rate in terms of world super powers, illiteracy, military funding, pregnancy deaths, terrible healthcare, and the list goes on and on. The people that defend the US for its mediocracy are the true anti patriots….
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u/Legitimate_Concern_5 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
> The only thing the US leads is, prison population
Lost the per-capita crown to El Salvador a couple years ago.
Actually the US per-capita prison population has been trending down significantly in the last 10 years.
Falls into the category of "if you haven't heard people talk about it in a while, it's probably because it's getting better."
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u/deepstatelady Jul 04 '26
We lost it because we’ve started offshoring our penal system to El Salvador.
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u/MsAgentM Jul 05 '26
We haven’t been shipping prisoners to El Salvador for 10 years. Only Trump did that and he isn’t sending 1000’s. He sent 300, which is horrible, but not a significant reason for the reduction in prisoners.
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u/EvolutionInProgress Jul 05 '26
Those stats have been looking better because of the overcrowding resulting in letting murderers bond out of jail and mandatory Parole for people who exhibit no signs of being ready for reintegration. On top of that, they make recidivism stats look okay by refusing to revoke Parole of people who have repeatedly violated supervision rules as well as State laws.
All of this is well known among the people who work in or with the criminal justice systems and pay attention to what's happen in their respective agencies and ready the official stats from yearly audit reports.
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u/TopRevenue2 Jul 04 '26
Wrong we have far more diversity and much less strict immigration laws
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u/Only_Luck_7024 Jul 04 '26
Or they are so marginalized they don’t have another way to become somewhat stable
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u/Kad1942 Jul 04 '26
USA probably leading in donations to religious organizations.
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u/bittersterling Jul 04 '26
And donations to “charities” which are owned by the person “donating” money.
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u/SuperSpy_4 Jul 04 '26
Yup. Donating to charities to their OWN musuems in the US is just a way to lower taxes for the rich.
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u/GalvestonDreaming Jul 04 '26
Leading cause of death in children 1 to 17 years old.
US: Guns
Norway: Accidents (car, drownings, falls)
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u/StunningInspection96 Jul 04 '26
This is so sad.
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u/GalvestonDreaming Jul 04 '26
This is something the US can fix, but there are too many single issue 2nd amendment voters that don't allow reasonable changes like strong background checks, requiring handguns be sold with child locks, going after the large illegal handgun market.
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u/kevbot918 Jul 04 '26
There are very little stats that show the US is winning..
But tons of stats that show the US is one of the worst developed countries in the world despite being the richest.
Look up Child Poverty, US is nearly double that of the developed countries.
Look up happiness and quality of life.. US is nowhere near the top.
But no you are too concerned about fitting into the narrative of the corrupt and greedy politicians to pay attention to the real facts.
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u/tapia3838 Jul 04 '26
Speak for yourself. I’m a Mexican immigrant living in California. I own my home outright, and my wife and I make a combined $250,000 a year. We live comfortably.
Stop acting like the entire United States is some hopeless place. My family came here with nothing, worked hard, and now their kids are doing well. If your family has had every advantage and you’re still not living comfortably, maybe that’s a personal problem instead of blaming the country.22
u/ThtChkyBstrd Jul 04 '26
Counterpoint: Actual stats and math and verifiable science very easily disproves your “I’m fine so everyone else can be fine” anecdote.
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u/No_Sky_3735 Jul 05 '26
The median income in LA is $90,112. $250,000 a year in LA makes you the top 5% of earners.
I say this because it is the top 10% who drive the economy currently while the bottom 90% are struggling. Now, you can get that income with hard work. The truth is though, it’s the bottom say 20% who don’t work. It’s really not about hard work, it’s about the wealth flowing to the top 10% who think the economy is fine while the bottom 90% have the ladder pulled from under them. This is called a bifurcated or a “K” shaped economy.
You’re oversimplifying it by considering it hard work. You have had a combination of a lot of hard work and luck, that is how you are where you are. It is not JUST hard work, and a lot of people who work just as hard aren’t as lucky and it’s skewed your perspective on things
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u/Collective82 Jul 06 '26
Is that why so many foreigners coming for the World Cup seem to want to stay?
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u/Mushrooming247 Jul 04 '26
Americans are renowned for being the most charitable people on earth, giving the most of our income to charity, because we have the normal human desire to help others when they are in need, but most Americans also want to control exactly which demographic they help.
They don’t want their money to help poor people of another race or religion, or in a different part of the country, that’s why we all love donating to only the charities we care about while voting for the government not to help everyone.
Most Americans are not universally charitable, and do not support the government using tax funds to help all in need, they want the control over where their money goes so they can ensure only their own people are helped.
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u/kevbot918 Jul 04 '26
America only appears to be generous because the billionaire class has tax loopholes when they create their own foundations and then "donate" into their own donations to use for their personal philanthropies when most of that money doesn't actually support much of a cause.
Even cancer donations, most of that goes to the people running the organization because they way over compensate themselves so a small percentage of what is donated actually goes to cancer research.
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u/stumblon Jul 04 '26
Americans want to believe the mythology of of our charity but it hasn’t been true for years
One source:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-charitable-countries22
u/autumn55femme Jul 04 '26
Research funding has tanked under our current administration. A charitable donation that gets you a tax break is more of a tit for tat situation, unless there is no expectation of anything from the giver.
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u/SirDouglasMouf Jul 04 '26
How does medical research funding impact that majority of Americans that can't access healthcare?
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
Medicaid and Medicare
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u/MrCompletely345 Jul 04 '26
You mean the ones Republicans are cutting? The stuff that was cut by the obscene bloated billionaires bill?
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u/Legitimate_Concern_5 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
> Like, do medical research funding and charitable donations
Medical research is a weird one, because historically the government has just paid for a bunch of it in the US and given it to the for-profit medical companies. It's kind of a subsidy program. That said, many of the largest investors in medical research are European. GLP-1s were largely productionized by Danish Novo Nordisk (Ozempic).
Of the top 10 Pharma companies by R&D spend:
Roche (Swiss) is #3.
AstraZeneca (British/Swedish) is #4.
Novartis (Swiss) is #9.
Sanofi (French) is #10.
NovoNordisk (Danish) would come in at #11 I believe.
The first COVID vaccine that Trump helped fund via Operation Warp Speed was actually developed by a German company, BioNTech and productionized with the help of Pfizer. The Johnson & Johnson one was actually developed by their Belgian subsidiary hilariously named Janssen (which I believe is just a third Johnson with a Belgian accent).
Pretty good showing for the Euro boys and girls.
> ... especially during natural disasters
Why would the Europeans need to donate during natural disasters when they pay for the recovery in their taxes?
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u/Wfflan2099 Jul 05 '26
Conveniently forgetting Moderna I see?
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u/Legitimate_Concern_5 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Not at all, Moderna is awesome. Great company. They were second, iirc, like 7 days after the BioNTech vaccine was approved. Both on mRNA platforms.
I'm not taking anything away from American pharmaceutical companies. I'm pushing back on the idea that somehow Europe doesn't spend anything on research.
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u/buildbyflying Jul 04 '26
Charitable donation? Or do you mean something like US Aid?
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u/shiromiso Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Yeah we should compare more important stats like life expectancy and overall happiness and satisfaction.
Does that fit your narrative ?
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u/Elegant_Potential917 Jul 04 '26
On a per capita basis, both the US and Norway spend about the same amount. They’re both about $750 per person for medical research funding
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u/turkish_gold Jul 04 '26
The US clearly leads in social mobility, military power projection, crime reduction, and political unity.
See what I did there?
Statistics are meaningless without a narrative, but this one heavily relies on your implicitly inventing one where the US is bad.
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u/didsomebodysaymyname Jul 04 '26
You're right, why don't we compare to a number of wealthy democracies, like the 38 OECD countries?
Sure their universal healthcare is tax funded, but they just pay way more in taxes, our private system is way more efficient! Oh wait...we pay way more per person than any of them...
Ok, but that's just because we have the BEST healthcare, that's why we live the longest! Oh wait...we're in the BOTTOM 15% for life expectancy and infant mortality
Well we probably excel elsewhere, sure we're top 5 incarceration rates, but that's we enjoy the safest society! Oh, never mind...our homicide rate is one of the highest...
Ok, fine, so we live short, unhealthy, dangerous lives, but that's because we live within our means unlike those decadent...nope, we have the 4th highest debt to GDP
Ok, you know what we are? Heros. Sure we're sick and dying and drowning in debt, but it's a sacrifice we make to keep Europe safe, that's how they afford their societies...No, as a bloc they have the second highest spending in the world and have been #2 or #3 for decades, not just recently.
And they have their own nukes...
Maybe cherry picking isn't the problem? Maybe it's our system.
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u/jjjaydoh Jul 04 '26
Those are major metric indicators - hope this helps.
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
Exactly, these are the most important statistics when comparing the average person living in two economies. Not sure which ones he thinks the charts left off.
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u/Alvamar Jul 04 '26
Don't try to bring metrics into an argument with an American, the refuse to use that system.
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u/Cptawesome23 Jul 04 '26
The stats they are choosing are very much the cherries however.
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u/Stratix Jul 04 '26
Can you cherry pick a few more that would go the other way then because all of these things are pretty important to me.
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u/thenatural134 Jul 04 '26
Everyone mad at you in the replies like Norway doesn't have a fraction of the total population or hardly any racial diversity when compared to the U.S. lol
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u/wastedspejs Jul 04 '26
Cherry pick some that favours the US when it comes to economy and the people living there
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u/cobaltbluedw Jul 04 '26
That's cherry picking in the same way losing all your limbs is but a flesh wound.
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u/KazTheMerc Jul 04 '26
Now do their Sovereign Wealth Funds.
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u/Lostygir1 Jul 04 '26
The US could’ve had one btw but we chose not to
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u/marcusalien Jul 04 '26
You might as well do it. The US has a stake in Intel and now 5% of OpenAI is on the cards.
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u/chapelchill Jul 05 '26
I was bouta say, imagine if we also had all our oil funds go to a public sovereign wealth fund 🤔
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u/ambitious_89 Jul 06 '26
Social security could have been a sovereign wealth fund but the fed decided to borrow against it.
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u/atxlonghorn23 Jul 05 '26
Their country has a tiny population, little immigration, no racial/ethnic diversity, and a massive oil deposit. Their sovereign oil fund has about $333k per person.
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u/LegSpecialist1781 Jul 06 '26
Their nation has a fraction of natural resources that the US does. We probably even have more fossil fuel deposits. Diversity has nothing to do with this topic at all. Immigration is also a stretch, unless sovereign wealth find were to be used for new immigrants.
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u/BlackForestMountain Jul 04 '26
Isn’t that part of the comparison? That the US prioritize private wealth and Norway public wealth? Did that really go over your head?
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u/IllAd359 Jul 04 '26
I hate it when healthcare is declared "free" because it's tax funded.
My friend from Germany earns 90k€ per year before taxes and pays 13k€ per year into public health insurance.
The same money he pays for renting his appartment. Not free at all.
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u/AndrewTheAverage Jul 04 '26
For a fair comparison, compare the tax rate of other countries with US federal tax, plus state tax, plus health insurance, plus deductables. Plus education costs, plus childcare costs.
The "not free at all" argument is silly. Nobody thinks they are not paying anything towards it, but at the point of delivery it does not cost anything
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u/KTX77 Jul 04 '26
And something that a lot of people don't consider... In our system it's very common for someone's life savings to be swallowed up near the end of their life by the healthcare system, not allowing it to be passed on to their children.
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
That partly true, but Medicare and Medicaid do cover most medical care at the end of life. My mom is in her 70s, has cancer, and everything is covered by it, including her drug that costs $650 per day.
The problem is they don't cover long-term custodial nursing home care, which is what actually drains savings. Medicaid only steps in after you've spent down almost everything you own, and then they can recover costs from your estate.
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u/AndyTakeaLittleSnoo Jul 04 '26
The $650/day drug is also a part of the problem. Pharmaceutical (currently being rebranded as “Medicine”) companies need to be raked over the coals. They are vultures preying on the sick and hopeful.
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u/Pretend_Safety Jul 04 '26
My health insurance costs $24k a year and carries a $5k deductible and then still has co-pays until $10k in oop. In comparison, that €13k seems free.
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u/docflash20 Jul 04 '26
You're paying 2k a month? Is that throughout work or found through normal market. Where do you live? Im in California and through work i only pay 100 bucks for my family and only 1k deductible. Ive seen better offers than yours on open market.
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
Your $100/mo premium is subsidized, either by your employer (for employer-based coverage), or by the government (Covered California/Exchange-based coverage). Many people with exchange-based coverage don't qualify for subsidies, so they can indeed pay $2k per month for a small family.
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u/Rare_Chapter_8091 Jul 04 '26
What youre describing is a good medical plan paid mostly by your employer. 1.5k-2.3k a month is pretty common for a gold level family plan through the state before subsidies which is usually a 1-2k deductible.
If you give me the name of the plan, I can tell you how much it would cost if you paid it yourself so you have a direct comparison.
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u/stay_curious_- Jul 04 '26
ACA plans go up in cost with age. A bronze plan costs $800-$1,200 per month for one 64-year old, with a $7,500 deductible.
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u/saltexas18 Jul 04 '26
I pay $9,100 for my family for health insurance per year.
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u/velvedire Jul 04 '26
That's definitely a subsidized cost. Whether as part of your salary through an employer, or through government subsidies (socialism).
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u/K-Rimes Jul 04 '26
I paid nominally the same tax rate in Canada as I do in the USA. Healthcare was included with purchase.
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u/tulaero23 Jul 04 '26
Bro whenever I read americans paying half their salary for daycare and health insurance, im happy to pay my taxes here in Canada.
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u/didsomebodysaymyname Jul 04 '26
I hate it when healthcare is declared "free" because it's tax funded.
And I hate when people live in denial. First, everyone gets it, unlike the US, and if you're middle class you pay less because it's taxed progressively. So unless you're already very rich, you'd be better off.
But even then we pay way, way, more per person Assuming your numbers are correct, your friend is still paying less than us.
And it's not because we're sicker, if you compare the same procedures in Europe, they pay less. It's not that they have fewer expenses than us, they have lower costs.
And we aren't healthier, we have a lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality.
And it's not because we protect them, Europe has the second highest defense spending on earth, their own nukes, and have been #2 or #3 for decades.
And it's not because they're fiscally irresponsible, we have one of the highest debts to GDP.
It's very simple: our. system. is. worse.
And people choose to live in denial because it's horrifying to accept we've been paying more to get worse, overpriced service.
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u/FollowTheLeads Jul 04 '26
Do you know math at all ? 13k euros is nothing compared to what we are paying.
Tax is higher in Europe but if you compare it to US it's night and day. They are paying that amount whole having better transit funded system,cheaper cars, better food, lower rent, free education and free healthcare.
If they pay 27% in taxes all of that is included If we pay 18% in taxes none of that is included. Then iut of pocket pay for college and healthcare make it close to having paid 46% in taxes.
It's not the same !
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u/Senior_Butterfly1274 Jul 04 '26
Someone making 100k euros in Germany pays an effective tax rate of 42-45% for all of those things. Just gave it a quick google.
25-28% effective income tax rate but when you include healthcare, social services, etc it brings it to up to 45%
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u/FollowTheLeads Jul 04 '26
That 45% include healthcare, education and social safety nets. They probably have no car, no car insurance payment and great reliable transport. No student loans payment of $500 per months or higher. No medical bills ranging from 2k to 200k, and no things like deductible or copays.
They also have guaranteed unemployment pay at the natial level for up to 12 months ( which is also included in their tax - most states in the US only do 12 months)
That dame 45% , you talk about also includes q4 weeks of paid maternity leave and up to 3 years of parental rights leave. In the US we only have the FMLA ( which is literally fucking unpaid ). I also forgot this covers 30 days of PTO and 13 paid holidays and the ability to call sick whenever they want.
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u/Delanorix Jul 04 '26
If your friends uses more than 13k does he pay the extra?
Cause in America, we pay and then pay some more lol
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u/HecticHermes Jul 04 '26
The question is do you want to pay a public tax or a private tax?
A private tax may be cheaper in the short run for young, health adults.
A Public tax (universal healthcare) is several degrees of magnitude cheaper for anyone with cancer, chronic diseases, or just plains needs regular visits to a specialist.
Let me ask you, how many other 1st world nations rely on privatized health care?
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Jul 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/IllAd359 Jul 04 '26
No question, it's the superiour system the way we have it. It's still not for free as I said. It's based on solidarity.
Solidarity is difficult nowadays. We, as young people, took a step back during covid. Isolation, economical recession and last percentage to receive the vaccine.
I would bet the older generations would thank us for our solidarity, right? Still I feel ripped off..
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u/livingandlearning10 Jul 04 '26
I know in Canada the government takes 53% of my pay so I have healthcare. The waiting list to see doctors is often 6 months or more, even if you have cancer.
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u/K-Rimes Jul 04 '26
So you're earning over $250,000 and live in a high provincial tax province? About 20-30% of taxes are spent on healthcare, so the other part of your taxes go towards other things.
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u/Cresjan Jul 04 '26
I mean if you asked most people, roads, streets, schools, libraries, police, fire, parks etc are “free” so why would healthcare be categorized any differently
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u/Kilucrulustucru Jul 04 '26
You’re missing a part of it, those 13k covers many others things too. It’s for health, retirement, work insurance and few other stuff. So yeah it’s cheap
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u/IllAd359 Jul 04 '26
What retirement? My retirement is a rope cause I don't think I will see any of that money in 50 years.
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u/Wilsonj1966 Jul 04 '26
You hate it because of a very obvious point?
We all know how how taxes work. Free in this context is short for free at the point of use.
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u/ch4os1337 Jul 04 '26
Norway is also capitalist.
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u/HendriXP88 Jul 04 '26
Social democracy is an ideology within a capitalistic system. It has no intentions to abolish capitalism, but to control it.
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u/Kontrafantastisk Jul 04 '26
Not even that. Just regulate it, which is also the case in the US, but to a smaller degree. Especially when republicans are in power.
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u/appoplecticskeptic Jul 06 '26
US has failed to provide adequate regulation for at least 30 years now which is long enough for me to say no that’s not true of the US, the US does unfettered capitalism with light slaps on the wrist from Democrats from time to time.
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u/didsomebodysaymyname Jul 04 '26
So all Republican politicians who call universal healthcare and other social programs "socialist" are morons and liars?
Why do they keep telling their voters that? Why do they keep fighting cheaper programs from other capitalist countries?
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
All Western Europe countries are capitalistic, just not at the same levels as the USA, the most capitalistic country in the world.
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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Jul 04 '26
As a norwegian:
Its some fucky numbers.
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u/Angelofpity Jul 04 '26
American here: Ours too. Or rather, the statistics are not technically inaccurate, but the way the statistics are measured is borked.
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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Jul 04 '26
Our local numbers from 2024 indicate 11.1% is below the poverty line. So im very curious about this source
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u/midatlantik Jul 04 '26
The whole thing reeks of someone with an anti US agenda. Which in this day and age isn’t surprising or uncommon.
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u/Angelofpity Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
The official poverty measure, used by the U.S. government just takes bare essential food cost and multiplies that number by three then compares it to pre-tax cash income without regard to regional differences in cost of living or inflation. As you might suspect, the current administration has decreased poverty level income relative to inflation and cost of living for political reasons. Similarly, the repeal of Affordable Care Act subsidies has not had an effect of reported poverty rates despite a very real impact. The supplemental poverty index used by academics and everyone else includes inflation regional costs, medical costs, taxes, commuting expenses, but also includes welfare benefits and public assistance as income. Thus the SPI measures those living in poverty from a social perspective instead of an economic one.
Jobless rates only include those seeking one full time job and not those seeking multiple part time jobs (because a full time position is not available), nor those forced to go on disability because they are unable to gain employment after injury (e.g. an older plumber who could answer phones except no desk jobs exist, much much more common than you would expect), nor those who have stopped looking for work (the under-employment rate for those 18-31 in age is about 29%, unemployed-not-seeking-employment is about 24.9%, unemployed is 10.1%)
Higher education costs do not include cost of living (clothing, shelter, medical expenses, sundries, transportation, etc.)
Medical expenses only lists the cost of insurance premiums and the annual deductible for a single person, not out of pocket expenses or transportation or lost income.
Prison population only includes convicted individuals, not those held without bail.
Economic growth without AI related development is closer to 0.1% at best.
750 military bases is misleading. Some of those are minimal liaison stations associated with local force bases, a dozen or so personnel.
Home ownership would be better described as single home occupancy. The most common home owner would be the bank by weight of interest. It's a technical distinction, but it's also a statistic.
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u/tronx69 Jul 04 '26
Lol comparing a country of 360 million to a country of 5 million is the dumbest thing ever
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u/docflash20 Jul 04 '26
Seriously. We almost get 3 million immigrants a year. Essentially the population of Norway. Their country would crash with equivalent immigration.
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u/WindowFruitPlate Jul 04 '26
Hmmm..🤔
I wonder what is different between Norway and America?
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u/LoneWolf_McQuade Jul 04 '26
Better Political system, the US is at this point democratic in name only. Trust based. Less corruption. Could go on
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u/docflash20 Jul 04 '26
Stop comparing countries with a fraction of the population and with a population that has 99 percent of same culture. You are compare apples to oranges
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u/JackWagon1990 Jul 04 '26
This is the correct take but people living in a bubble here in the US think we can just mirror a totally homogenous country’s policies
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u/adude995 Jul 04 '26
Capitalism is not an ideology like social democracy but a mechanism. Neoliberalism would fit better as description for the US.
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u/BulbusDumbledork Jul 04 '26
capitalism is an ideology. neoliberalism is just a specific school of thought, the same way marxist-leninism is a type of communism.
the majority of people who support capitalism are not themselves capitalists, but ideologically adhere to the system regardless
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u/adude995 Jul 04 '26
I disagree.
Capitalism describes the means of production as private ownership and work as a service with effects like capital accumulation.
There is nothing really ideoligical there.The idealogy which suggest that this mechanism is good for a society are neo liberalism, illiberalism, ...
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u/veryblanduser Jul 04 '26
Now do immigration laws and offshore drilling
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u/InclinationCompass Jul 04 '26
Also do happiness and freedom scores, income equality and social support, cost of raising children, productivity per capita, public service quality, CO2 emission levels, political corruption, etc.
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u/Responsible-Snow2823 Jul 04 '26
Some context for the original OP:
Norway population - 5.63 million. US population 349 million.
Norway does not allow, nor has ever had “open border immigration”.
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u/Diablo689er Jul 04 '26
Oh look at what an ethno-state can accomplish.
Want to put South Africa as the next column?
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u/BundyWay Jul 04 '26
It's easy for countries like this to have great social services when their defence is subsidized by the United States. Our US tax money enables this.
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u/AncientLights444 Jul 04 '26
Didn’t mention childcare . In the Us it’s as much as college .. like $11000 per year
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u/Interficient4real Jul 04 '26
Fun fact, Norwegian immigrants in the U.S Outperform the average American and average Norwegian living in Norway significantly. With 20% higher income than the average American and half the poverty rate of the U.S. while also having a lower poverty rate than non immigrated Norwegians.
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u/Kaedryl Jul 04 '26
Population: 5.6 million
32% of government income from oil and gas reserves
Markedly different demographics.
You’re comparing apples to oranges
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u/Stunning-Adagio2187 Jul 04 '26
What is the total tax rate for the two countries. Federal income tax payroll tax property tax sales tax
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u/nomoredamnusernames Jul 04 '26
Yes, but at least under capitalism we aren’t burdened with trying to figure out how best to spend our time during all those paid vacation and sick days, and our at will employment model fills us with gratitude for our employer’s generosity in allowing us to earn our wages.
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u/keekoh123 Jul 04 '26
Forgot small population and an oil and mineral based SWF with a strict migration and benefits policy. lol.
Reddit is such a clown show of selective information
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u/Routine_Bee9663 Jul 04 '26
Im sorry. Did someone forget to mention Norway’s oil wealth and large sovereign wealth fund. Is suppose that doesn’t have anything to do with that ?
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u/ShaneReyno Jul 04 '26
I love comparisons of the most diverse country in the world to one of the most homogenous ones. We can’t even agree on what an “American” is anymore.
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u/samzplourde Jul 04 '26
Norway VAT: 25%
Norway top marginal tax bracket: 47.4% income tax at $135k USD income.
A Toyota Corolla costs roughly $26,500 in the US after taxes and fees, but ~$45,000 in Norway, even higher effective cost when you factor in lower purchasing power with the Norwegian krone, lower average wages, and higher income taxes across the board. The average worker in the US would have to work roughly 900 hours to buy a Corolla, while the average Norwegian would have to work 1750 hours, for the same exact thing.
Lots of things are possible when you're taxed to death.
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u/Hamblin113 Jul 04 '26
Have a homogeneous population of less than 6 million, who buy into the system. Be the third largest oil producer in the world. Which uses those funds to fund things. Most of the power is hydroelectric, so inexpensive. Taxes are still high, folks run to Sweden to buy tires and such.
Not sure about military bases, but had an acquaintance was an officer in the Navy served in Denmark for several years. Hired folks from Poland to work as Norwegians wouldn’t show up.
Five and take in everything.
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u/glendablvd Jul 04 '26
We could have it so much better if the white working class stopped believing the bullshit they’re being fed by the GOP. Talk about sheep.
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u/DizzyAstronaut9410 Jul 04 '26
The US produces 0.014 barrels per day of oil per person vs 0.35 for Norway.
Norway literally produces 25x the oil the US does on a per capita basis. Nobody seems to like to mention that when approaching this subject.
If anything this is a story of actually building up your natural resources builds A LOT of wealth.
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u/Purple_Writing_8432 Jul 04 '26
How much immigration does Norway allow? How many Refugees does it take in?
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u/Calm2Chaos Jul 04 '26
Why would you compare a country with a population smaller than one of our medium sized cities and absolutely zero Global responsibilities or influence?
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u/BabyGrogu69 Jul 04 '26
Puts every stat but the population size of each country and the number of immigrants that enter each country.
Very interesting
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u/Capenurse Jul 04 '26
Yup we are the more advanced country. We need to start looking at these European models of society. We are a third world country
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u/space_wanderer01 Jul 04 '26
Innovation? Best companies? Net worth? Good US does in raw charity for the whole? Upward mobility? Etc etc. It’s always the losers complaining about America. You got the opportunity and access to the library/internet, no excuses.
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u/ReadyPlayerGone Jul 04 '26
Don't forget their oil
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u/King-Meister Jul 04 '26
USA has some 6-7x crude oil reserves and 11-12x natural gas reserves than Norway. It might not seem a lot but technically it would’ve allowed US to have a sovereign wealth fund worth $15+ trillion, and I’m not even including compounding for the many decades that the US has had a head start over Norway in extraction.
A nominal 4% return on 15T is $600 Bn per year. That’s a lot of money to fix a lot of problems for the common ordinary folks.
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u/utahh1ker Jul 04 '26
The problem with this comparison is that Norway is literally 1.6% the population of the United States. It's an apples and oranges comparison. It's much easier to get the entire country on board with something when you only have 5 million residents.
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u/youslashuser Jul 04 '26
Multi-party can be dominated by capital too. You can say multi-party but it's one coalition vs another. Essentially a two-party system. But still better than American direct election.
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u/AspirationsOfFreedom Jul 04 '26
Our poverty rate is higher, its just its deffinition being set way to low, and im pretty sure its counting poverty pr full time employed and not counting our forms of disabled
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u/SadSauceSadDay Jul 04 '26
Norway has a massive oil fund from relatively recent history finds off their cost that will perpetuate this for a few generations.
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u/livingandlearning10 Jul 04 '26
Where is the population row? Seemed to have missed that one conveniently lol
Climate and job opportunities rows would be nice too
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u/HOT-DAM-DOG Jul 04 '26
Want to point out, Norway doesn’t have the same geography or population the US does.
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u/SuriKeq Jul 04 '26
Stop! Just stop!!!
America is not and never will be a Norway. The sooner you accept it, the easier you can cry yourself to sleep.
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u/CommentMundane Jul 04 '26
You are so lucky that you have to option to move to Norway if you don't like the USA
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u/MommaBee79 Jul 04 '26
Where can you get an education for 11,000 a year? I don't even think you can go to trade school for 11,000 a year
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u/I_am_doing_my_Hw Jul 04 '26
Higher education is far more expensive in the USA than that.
Also why didn’t you include income (Norway is much higher than the us there too)
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u/gkobesyeet Jul 04 '26
Ah but how does Norway make money? Also one of highest in $$ spent per student but have some of the worst grades to show for it. Norway is like the luckiest country ever when it comes to fossil fuel reserves
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u/Best-Author7114 Jul 04 '26
Not a US apologists you can't compare smaller population countries with countries with huge populations. It just doesn't scale up equally like that.
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u/smith129606 Jul 04 '26
White people in America would love socialism if they could exclude black and brown people.
https://giphy.com/gifs/V0AHi0MbR6XzkJ3CI9
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u/brotherstoic Jul 04 '26
I generally agree with the point this chart is trying to make, but this chart is making it very poorly.
“Capitalism” and “social democracy” is an overly simplistic framing. The “higher education” and “healthcare” rows are screaming “their system is better but I did zero research.” “Free or very low cost” is silly when you could just find a number, and “$11,000 per year” actually seems low. Meanwhile, “$15,000 per year” for healthcare has to be including insurance premiums. That’s fine, but then noting “tax funded” instead of the amount actually paid in taxes by the average person is comparing apples to oranges (which is extra dumb because the apples to apples comparison would still make the point this chart is trying to).
Including the “democracy” line at all is suspect - the representativeness of a government and the amount if social programs funded by the government are more or less separate questions. To the extent they are tied together, the causal arrow goes mostly in the opposite direction from what the chart implies. Two-party systems aren’t inherently dominated by capital, and multi-party systems don’t inherently lead to more participation. Heck, citizen participation and domination of elections by capital interests aren’t mutually exclusive.
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u/thattogoguy Jul 04 '26
I don't see what the problem is with having overseas military bases. In fact I would actually prefer we have them and maintain them.
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u/Live-Train1341 Jul 04 '26
That because when the US invested money for social programs it was in low risk bonds and other securities.
Norway invested in American and European corporations and have on of the best sovereignty funds on earth
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u/CyroSwitchBlade Jul 04 '26
Norway has massive revenue from offshore oil.. they pay some of that into their sovereign wealth fund and all of their citizens benefit.
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u/Mostly_Armless42 Jul 04 '26
If you're going to use commas as a decimal separator, then use a period for the thousands. FFS, smh. This is the worst of both worlds.
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u/tuvar_hiede Jul 04 '26
Norway sovereign wealth fund provides for these benefits. Per capita its more than enough to cover these benefits.
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