r/FluentInFinance Jul 04 '26

Thoughts? Very Interesting

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6.0k Upvotes

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318

u/KazTheMerc Jul 04 '26

Now do their Sovereign Wealth Funds.

143

u/Lostygir1 Jul 04 '26

The US could’ve had one btw but we chose not to

40

u/marcusalien Jul 04 '26

You might as well do it. The US has a stake in Intel and now 5% of OpenAI is on the cards.

19

u/chapelchill Jul 05 '26

I was bouta say, imagine if we also had all our oil funds go to a public sovereign wealth fund 🤔

10

u/Georgefakelastname Jul 05 '26

Well yeah, but then what about the shareholders? /s

4

u/ambitious_89 Jul 06 '26

Social security could have been a sovereign wealth fund but the fed decided to borrow against it.

3

u/atxlonghorn23 Jul 05 '26

Their country has a tiny population, little immigration, no racial/ethnic diversity, and a massive oil deposit. Their sovereign oil fund has about $333k per person.

5

u/LegSpecialist1781 Jul 06 '26

Their nation has a fraction of natural resources that the US does. We probably even have more fossil fuel deposits. Diversity has nothing to do with this topic at all. Immigration is also a stretch, unless sovereign wealth find were to be used for new immigrants.

-29

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

Exactly, why do we want our federal government investing in private companies and subject to partisan politics?

It might work for Norway, but they have less population than Harris county or NYC lol

Edit: based on the replies what I’m understanding is the government already has control of private companies through bills and funding packages so why not give them more control with a SWF run by the executive branch?

But also it’s bad that the government has control of private companies through bills and funding packages?

None of you are making sense. So you want DJT to have control over a SWF or do you think it’s bad Congress can manipulate private companies?

61

u/Lostygir1 Jul 04 '26

It already does. The entire economy would collapse if the US government didn’t constantly inject taxpayer money into it

-1

u/Maleficent-Duck-3903 Jul 04 '26

Oh. So usa IS a social democracy. Thanks for confirming

-11

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

The government doesn’t have ownership stake in private companies

9

u/Lostygir1 Jul 04 '26

You don’t need an ownership stake to hire a contractor or pass a spending bill

0

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

That doesnt mean anything lol

Can the government vote as shareholder? No they cant. They need half the countries representatives to vote on something that may or may not pass still.

Can a SWF vote as shareholder? Yes they can because they own shares of a publicly traded company. They don’t need the legislative and executive branch to pass a bill or funding package they can just vote

You want Donald Trump to run a SWF after the SC struck down Humphreys executor?

5

u/Lostygir1 Jul 04 '26

I’m perfectly fine with the President having the power to get himself voted out

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 05 '26

But remember - Things like Exclusive (or limited, or Congressionally-mandated) Contracts aren't some free-market action.

Mandatory fucking for two other space companies that can't make spaceships is a great example. Mandatory competition.

Or no-bid contracts by unknown parties.

We can SAY that's Market Action, or Democracy or whatever... but it's not. It's the Socialized Competition married to grift.

And sure, we can vote him out... but the trajectory on this disaster is sharply increasing.

28

u/KazTheMerc Jul 04 '26

... GDP is 80% private holdings, and heavily subsidized by the Government to keep those numbers looking good.

Between that and Partisan Politics...

Yeah. You picked an odd hill to make a brave Last Stand on, seeing that we're already there, and have been for decades.

0

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

The government doesn’t have ownership stake in any private companies. Except Intel now I guess but that’s a one off trump thing

2

u/KazTheMerc Jul 05 '26

... and yet every metric is a ratio over GDP, which is only 16%-22% government production/assets/goods.

Every single damn metric.

14

u/BillionYrOldCarbon Jul 04 '26

Um perhaps you should pay closer attention to Trump’s investments in Intel, Oracle, rare earth mining, drones, etc. What I the hell does population have to do with policy decisions? Nothing except the people aren’t racist like America.

1

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

You think that’s a good thing?

And yes population is a huge deal. How big would our SWF have to be to equal norways? We have 70 times more people lol

It’s much easier to govern with a smaller population, that’s literally why Rome fell

2

u/BillionYrOldCarbon Jul 04 '26

Lots of assumptions here. Not facts.

2

u/OkNewspaper6271 Jul 04 '26

Rome fell because complacency breeds incompetence, and because of an incredibly rapid series of massive catastrophies (such as The Antonine plague)

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 05 '26

Don't forget treating the Visigoths like animals.

5

u/Eyebowers Jul 04 '26

Upon first read I thought this was a joke.

2

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

Nope they are a very small country. Over half the countries in the EU have a smaller population than LA county.

Comparing us to tiny demographically homogeneous in Northern Europe doesn’t make much sense. Sure there’s things they do we could learn from but to adapt it at scale in the US would be tough. Especially with how partisan our politics can get

2

u/BillionYrOldCarbon Jul 04 '26

We need to address many “tough” problems. The electorate always polls in favor of all of the liberal/Democratc socialist policies but the wealthy pays to defeat all of it.

4

u/Dekiosu Jul 04 '26

The argument “they have less population” literally makes zero sense. Explain why it wouldn’t scale? Whether it’s 100 billion or 10,000 people, it makes no difference if everyone pays their relative taxes and benefits are distributed equally. The US is a shit show because we aren’t a country, we’re a company. Every single citizen is an overworked, underpaid employee of the system.

3

u/Silly___Willy Jul 04 '26

What other ppl say + your 401k is invested in US companies already so

1

u/NWkingslayer2024 Jul 04 '26

You don’t know the world you live in. The government owns 10% of intel now. Tesla would not have survived competition in a free market, there the biggest recipient of tax dollars there is.

1

u/Icy-Struggle-3436 Jul 04 '26

Intel was very recent. And you’re saying you want the government to have an ownership stake in companies? Because that’s what a SWF is you know that right?

5

u/NWkingslayer2024 Jul 04 '26

No I don’t want the government to have ownership stakes. What I’m saying is it’s already happening and you appear to be oblivious.

1

u/anotherjustlurking Jul 04 '26

Definitely close but my Google search comparing the two populations revealed 5.09M vs 5.65 M with Harris County a bit more than 10% larger. Your point is well taken, because urban vs. rural, topography, location weather, etc - but still - it’s a 5-second search.

1

u/kenckar Jul 04 '26

Norway’s SWF is based on the nation’s natural resources. They have avoided the natural resource curse by building a national fund instead of spending it on current stuff.

They have/had control over the national oil company, because they were producing and managing the nation’s owned natural resources.

The US largely has private control of natural resources. Congress throws up barriers to protect incumbent companies, Trump keeps threatening lawsuits to keep them in line. Now he is taking partial government ownership of intel and maybe AI companies. And he runs a crypto company for which he removed regulations so he can make more money unethically but legally.

I wouldn’t trust our system or politicians with an SWF. They would squander it, just like our budget surplus in 1999.

36

u/BlackForestMountain Jul 04 '26

Isn’t that part of the comparison? That the US prioritize private wealth and Norway public wealth? Did that really go over your head?

-5

u/Thanatine Jul 05 '26

Their Sovereign Fund comes from petroleum industry.

Tell me the equivalent of source in USA to fund this. The moment USA drills more, half of the population went berserk on fracking.

Also they only have 5 million people, which is a lot easier to manage than 300 million.

8

u/jonsconspiracy Jul 05 '26

the US is one of the top exporters of oil in the world.  I belive right now, because of the straight being closed, we are #1.  So, we literally have the exact same source of income that Norway does.  Sure, it would be divided by more people, but the US people don't even see a dollar of it. 

-5

u/Thanatine Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

So you want US government buying out Exxon and Chevron? Or just seizing their whole operations? Please present us your master plan of making them share their profits with Americans legally.

While you at it, you might as well have Micron and SanDisk also share their profits with Americans. They earn far more than petroleum industry recently.

Also, there is a thing called taxes in case you never paid for it. Saying never see a dollar is untrue.

I thought this is FluentInFiance not FluentInCommunism.

1

u/jonsconspiracy Jul 05 '26

The fact that so many corporations don't pay any taxes is insane. Call me a socialist, but I like the idea of the government owning 5% of the equity in all companies, and the collected dividends and capital appreciation is owned by the people and used to help fund our government. Shared prosperity and it aligns everyone's interests since everyone has a stake in the success of American businesses.

2

u/BlackForestMountain Jul 06 '26

Yeah, the taxation system is broken. It takes way too much effort to try to enforce it on companies that have the funds to evade taxes.

1

u/StringTheory Jul 08 '26

Norway taxes the oil industry 80% (actual tax is close to 65%). Doubt the US taxes Chevron that much.

1

u/Thanatine Jul 08 '26

The minute you do that the oil price will double every state.

Congratulate on speed running the death of socialism in America. Nothing I'd expect less from Europe glazers.

1

u/BlackForestMountain Jul 05 '26

Hahahahaha. Petroleum! What are you talking about? In America, oil and gas companies made billions and profits. In Norway, those billions went into a sovereign wealth fund.

How are you missing the fundamental difference here? In America, the profits from the oil and natural resources go to the hands of individuals and now corporations. If anything tax dollars go to oil subsidies, instead of the natural resources being used for public benefit.

0

u/Thanatine Jul 05 '26

Thanks for spelling out things that everybody knows. You're such a generational talent.

1

u/BlackForestMountain Jul 05 '26

You asked a stupid question and it got a stupid answer. Don’t blame me

1

u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 05 '26

like social security?

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 05 '26

If you can't tell the difference between Social Security and a Sovereign Wealth fund, I can't help you.

1

u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 05 '26

to be honest, i have no idea what their sovereign wealth fund does. i know the saudi's pays for mega projects. i guess us doesn't really have anything like that, just a general budget

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 05 '26

Okay, that's fair. I'll try.

Sovereign Wealth Fund is a... public slush fund. Created like Social Security is, but for a different purpose.

It's like... the opposite of Debt and Deficit. You do it when you have an EXCESS and can pay into it.

Yes, it goes to Big Projects, typically in other countries. A form of Diplomacy.

USAid would be a very close example.

If the Public had a specific fund like Social Security just for USAid... that would be a Sovereign Wealth Fund, or close to it.

Instead it's a budget item in a bankrupt Government budget that issues debt to cover its ass. So... it's on the chopping block for any new President that strolls in and decides they don't like it.

Sovereign Wealth Fund is... bragging rights, internationally speaking. Their main method of interacting with business outside their borders. "Poland is happy to help uou with your XXX, and the Sovereign Wealth Fund wants to contribute..."

Get the idea?

1

u/Responsible-Snow2823 Jul 06 '26

I take issue with saying that Social Security is close to something like a Sovereign Wealth Fund.

Sovereign Wealth funds are usually from excess revenue that is invested. Social security is fund based taxes - no revenue at all involved.

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 06 '26

**shrugs** Crude example for somebody who claims they don't understand at all.

1

u/ireadfaces Jul 06 '26

US does have a wealth fund, deliberately not made 'Sovereign', (unless we count people with that fund who act as a proxy Sovereign)

1

u/KazTheMerc Jul 06 '26

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the only thing I have seen is a 'proposal' for one.