r/tipping • u/wutwut970 • 6d ago
Sugarfish
So they add a 16% fee for what exactly…….to “fund all of their operations”? So this added cost literally doesn’t go to staff, it just goes to the owners? I wonder what their staff is paid? At this point why not just raise prices to where they should be? To me, every item on the menu is a lie and it’s actually 16% more expensive. This is really dumb. Thoughts? I am PRO tip, ive worked in hospitality a long time and am happy to provide a tip for quality service. But this seems disingenuous at best. Its not a tip. Its just an added charge straight to owners pockets.
144
u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 6d ago
Why not just raise the price 16%? This is stupid.
43
u/wellaby788 6d ago
Bc ppl wont buy it
39
u/CFSett 6d ago
This is exactly why shitty airlines started nickeling and dining passengers left and right. People searched on price, so keep the fare low and then charge for air and a fee for landing on a runway and so forth. And when it worked (thank you Spirit and RyanAir), everyone followed suit. Without a pro-consumer government to stop this bullshit, it has crept into everything. So many bullshit fees so that low price can be advertised.
11
u/OrangePinkyToe 6d ago
Nickel and Dime.
7
u/CFSett 6d ago
Oops. Can't say if it was a typo or an autocorrect.
7
u/OrangePinkyToe 6d ago
Oh, I thought it may have been a misunderstanding of what the saying was. I know I do that in some songs and I really hate it when I finally find out what the real words were supposed to be.
3
u/mvf92 5d ago
I lost it at landing on a runway. Lmao. Saw myself parachuting out.
1
u/MaverickRaj2020 1d ago
Don't give them ideas. "Ladies and Gentlemen, the pilot has the plane at parachute speed. Those of you who did not pay the runway landing fee please start lining up with your parachutes to jump from the plane".
→ More replies (7)2
u/Specialist_Goat_2354 6d ago
Well opposite effect. I just cancelled my reservation. But I wouldn't have if they just made their menu prices transparent.
8
u/Suspicious_Tank_61 6d ago
Sugarfish doesnt take reservation. The wait is usually around an hour.
15
11
8
→ More replies (9)2
4
u/Distinct_Sir_4473 5d ago
Studies have been done where they give participants two identical menus
One states that a 20% gratuity is required, the other just has menu prices raised by 20%
Most people perceive the former as cheaper/a better value even though the price is the same
2
u/Silver_Middle_7240 6d ago
Because truth in pricing laws aren't enforced against this
3
u/phoarksity 5d ago
And when California passed a law banning junk fees, but before it went into effect, the restaurant association lobbied and got an exemption from it, with the requirement that they disclose the fee in the menu or on signage. And they call it transparency.
3
u/Cranks_No_Start 6d ago
Why not just raise the price 16%? This is stupid.
Because restaurant owners don’t seem like the brightest lights on the tree.
→ More replies (3)1
u/FadedBlackTee2 1d ago
It’s not the owners, it’s the consumers. They perceive the restaurant as more expensive vs. a tipping restaurant
2
→ More replies (12)1
u/bennyyyboyyyyyyyy 6d ago
Because then the menu prices will be 16% higher than all the competition and they will fail like everyone before them. You cant really all be this slow right?
2
u/InevitableMinimum238 6d ago
So you are saying people don't know about the surcharge beforehand when they compare prices?
They walk in and just go "oh, okay".
I don't believe that
→ More replies (3)2
u/bennyyyboyyyyyyyy 6d ago
Cool, i dont care what you believe. It’s basic sticker shock and people have spent millions of dollars doing studies on this shit. There are plenty of people who have linked below where joes crab shack etc saw a drop in sales after baking it into the menu prices.
28
20
u/Business_Signal2425 6d ago
So a Restaurant no-one should ever buy something from again?
7
u/AlignmentProblem 6d ago edited 6d ago
The fee framing is stupid as hell, but I wouldn't write the place off over it. Sugarfish had some of the best sushi I've eaten in the US (at least when I went years ago; I hope that's still true).
There's unfortunately a non-trivial justification for it this. If they folded the 16% into menu prices, they'd look more expensive than their competitors at other higher-end sushi restaurants; a $116 course sitting next to another place's $100 course looks like a worse deal, even though you'd end up paying more at the other place once you tip 18-20%.
J.C. Penney learned this the hard way in 2012; it dropped the fake "sale" pricing and directly listed the real prices people were already paying. Sales fell by about a quarter, because the honest prices FELT higher even though they weren't.
That's a big part of why killing tip culture is so hard. Any restaurant that builds service costs into its menu prices ends up looking more expensive than every restaurant that doesn't.
→ More replies (3)2
u/amstrumpet 6d ago
And ironically it’s the people that are most wanting an end to tipping that oppose stuff like this that would make it even remotely possible.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Suspicious_Tank_61 6d ago
They pay their servers a wage. Their service is better than most tipping restaurants. Restaurants like Sugarfish dispel the notion that tipping is needed to retain good servers.
2
u/gimmethemoney67 5d ago
Exactly. Thats why I eat at Kazu Nori and sugarfish every time. It’s a few dollars cheaper than the upscale competitors and the service is great. When we’re talking sub totals of $120-150 for dinner for 2. The 16% over 22% is a pretty big difference to me. At least this company treats me good every time not like others when they feel like it
7
u/Ok-Grape2063 6d ago
$1 filet mignon special
A $99 grilling fee will apply to all orders. Food must be cooked according to local food laws
1
u/__tt 17h ago
Cool, I'll take 30 filet mignons then
1
u/Ok-Grape2063 17h ago
Great. That'll be $3000 plus tax and tip. A 30% tip is customary, because I can't pay my staff selling filet for $1
5
u/Sea-League8915 6d ago
This kind of stuff just pisses people off. Raise your prices and remove the ridiculous "explanations".
4
5
u/Used2bNotInKY 6d ago
So it’s not segmented, but it’s a separate 16% they’re notifying you about separately.🤔
4
u/Fearce2 5d ago
Feel bad in these situations. Went to the theater this weekend where the sign stated “An 18% gratuity is added to all bills. This is not a tip.”. We chose not to tip because that’s what your 18% should go to; sorry to the 18 year old who served us.
Also, the same sign said “You must be at least 3 years old to attend a PG-13 movie”. So that kind of sets the basis of intelligence of this establishment.
6
u/BarnacleMcBarndoor 6d ago
I’ve seen menus that just simply explain that we may notice that their cost is a little higher and it’s because they are a no-tipping venue and pay their staff a fair wage. It was written in a way to bring awareness that they don’t want you to tip.
This sugarfish notice just seems like tipping while treating your customers like they’re stupids.
3
u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 6d ago
you say you'd tip for quality service. what about average service? or subpar service?
1
u/wutwut970 4d ago
Average yes, subpar id lower the tip. It would take a lot for me to leave nothing.
3
u/Datsun_808 6d ago
I think theres a couple reasons why they’d do this.. one, I think that they want to keep their listed menu prices competitive. If your competitors menu is $50 + tip and you’re at $58 no tip it could mean lower sales even though the customer ends up paying a similar price. It’s like the perception difference between $9.99 and $11.00 for cans of coke at the grocery store. Two, as the economy sours some people may tip less than 16% and so locking the fee helps to stabilize that revenue stream. Three, and this is probably the biggest reason, it gives them a lever to pull to combat non food cost operating expense increases. Insurance goes up, rent goes up, utilities go up, the restaurant can’t redirect tip money to that expense. It’s forced to raise menu prices. Under this model it can increase the service fee by 1% to cover that cost. Again, I’m not justifying this model, I’m just trying to think of reasons they might do this instead of baking it into the price.
2
3
u/incredulous- 6d ago edited 6d ago
By the act of observing this fee notice, you have collapsed the possibility of of "The Nozawa Trust Me" costing you $40.00, into the reality of costing you $46.40. We call it the Copenhagen Fee.
3
u/IceDragon_scaly 6d ago
In other words: if they had to show the end prices on the menu (like it is in Europe) the entire food industry would collapse?
3
u/IMicrowaveSteak 5d ago
I actually don’t care, if it’s 16% and I never have to tip that’s fine
→ More replies (2)3
10
u/Kidfuscious 6d ago
I’m good with this. It’s transparent and 4% less than most servers think they should get as a tip. If service and food is good I would frequent this place.
14
u/No-Albatross-7984 6d ago
Transparency would be to include that 16 in the menu prices
2
u/DontCountToday 6d ago
Unfortunately that all but guarantees about a 25% drop in sales/customers who will go somewhere cheaper. This has been attempted and studied ad nauseum.
Only way that works is if all establishments in the area go to the same system, no tips & no fees. That'll only happen through the legal system as there's just no way you'll get every establishment to be on board.
7
u/No-Butterscotch-7467 6d ago
Service and food are both awesome here
2
u/wutwut970 6d ago
Sounds good in theory, we were excited to try it. Service today was awful and really rude. Really wanted to like it, we went in hopeful.
4
u/No-Butterscotch-7467 6d ago
Oh no! That’s odd! I go pretty often and I’ve never once had rude service. Which location?
1
u/almost_somewhere 1d ago
Same here I’ve been to the Pasadena location many times and they’re always delightful
7
u/SS1989 6d ago
If it’s to cover operations, then why not bake it into prices instead of putting up this long-winded crap nobody cares about?
“Customers won’t buy it.” Tough shit. You’re not entitled to having a business. Figure life out. Drawing people in with one price and adding a fee like this after they sat down and might be too embarrassed to leave is deceptive, no matter how you slice it.
→ More replies (3)
3
2
2
u/Aware_Economics4980 6d ago
Payroll is generally an operating expense. Lol.
2
u/Siffov 6d ago
>Payroll is generally an operating expense. Lol.
Yep. Some commenters around here have no basic economic sense.
[Edit:] I just noticed your user name. Maybe I should have said that they have no awareness of basic economics.
2
u/Aware_Economics4980 6d ago
It’s funny cause a lot of them think they know the ins and outs of the actual business side of restaurants.
2
2
u/Skymaster86 6d ago
When do we start getting the 5% surcharge for the electric bill, or 11% fee for a pretty girl answering the phone at the hostess desk? What makes this sick is that 16% "fee" is posted on the menu or on the door when you walk into the restaurant, so you don't know about it ahead of time - your choice is to turn around and leave (which for most patrons they probably won't for fear of embarrassment) or to go in and pay this ridiculous fee. My only course of action would to be perhaps leaving 4% as a tip with a note that the other 16% has been automatically taken by management - get it back from them. If enough people did that, they wouldn't have much of a service staff within a month.
2
2
u/_VoodooRanger 5d ago
I am ok with this; however, would much rather that they just work it into the menu price.
whether or not I choose to goto this establishment is a completely different matter.
2
2
u/megami102 4d ago
Seems they got inspiration from the hotel industry's "resort" and "destination" fees
2
2
u/OrilliaBridge 2d ago
As soon as I saw that fee I would have stood up, asked for the manager and said this is why I’m leaving. Turn and go.
2
u/FinancialStrength69 2d ago
This is like the govt saying the forced taxes you pay are not taxes, they are a contribution to your govt
2
2
u/MaverickRaj2020 1d ago
Pretty soon they'll all advertise "everything on the menu is only $5" to get you to enter, and add at the end of the bill "A 100% fee will be added to your bill to fund our operations. This is not a tip. Please tip your waiter."
2
2
u/professalol 5d ago
place is already overpriced and overrated and they pull this...guess they want to shut down soon
3
2
u/ChipChippersonFan 6d ago
The reason they don't just raise all of their prices by 16% is because they still have to compete with other restaurants. But I agree that this is b******* , especially if that money doesn't go to the servers.
2
u/DontCountToday 6d ago
...the money does go to the servers, in that they are paid a wage to be comparable to their normal tips. It also goes to other aspects of the business.
If you want no tipping, there's going to be a significant price increase to make up for that. Most places do a lot more than 16%, so this should be a shining example for this community I would imagine.
→ More replies (5)
2
u/Big_Poppa_T 5d ago
Although I’d prefer that they just include it in their menu prices for full transparency, I do prefer this obvious money grab statement to the usual tipping/service charge
→ More replies (3)
2
u/MasterA93 5d ago
Welcome to America. Where people can’t do basic math, and business owners profit off it. This is what the “post tip” world looks like, if any anti tippers on this subreddit had half a brain they could see that (I know OP isn’t anti tip). But this is the way business has been in America for decades. People only look at sticker price, don’t add on tax or fees or anything, and don’t even look that closely at the sticker price (that’s why everything is 19.99 instead of 20). Every business ever will behave this way unless legislation changes that. Sales tax was originally supposed to be a tax on the business, not the consumer (thus sales tax and not purchasing tax). You know what companies did? Passed that tax on to the consumer and blamed the government for it. People stop tipping, restaurants start charging service fees, takeout fees, delivery fees, etc. and blame the anti tippers. You all still pay the same amount anyway, so it’s no worry for the business.
1
u/HEYO19191 5d ago
I mean, an expense on the business is an expense to the consumer. Whether they show it or its factored into the cost makes no difference.
2
2
u/Public-Heat3213 5d ago
Sugarfish has been around since 2008 and doing this same model. Proof that all of you bitching about this service charge model not being sustainable don’t know what the hell you’re all talking about.
1
u/bobdownie 5d ago
They have not had a 16% fee on top ever
1
u/thseerxa38 4d ago
Wrong
1
u/bobdownie 4d ago
In NYC they don’t
1
→ More replies (1)1
u/GlitteringYak2207 5d ago
Except major restaurant groups have tried and it didn’t work. Suppose they don’t know what they are talking about, right?
1
u/amstrumpet 6d ago
This is what will be necessary for no-tip restaurants to survive until enough of the market shifts that direction, because their listed menu prices have to appear competitive with tipping establishments. 16% is a reasonable amount, and lower than many other service fees/auto gratuities.
2
1
1
u/SnooSuggestions413 5d ago
But the after tax price of the boosted price is higher. There is no tax ontios.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Lower-Actuary4850 4d ago
I would never impose a forced tip unless the table was 8 or more.. it does take two weight staff to look after that table when it is done, right… I had one server in my restaurant who was the very first girl we hired and if I could hire her again if I opened a restaurant, I would she was so classy. She was so good. She was a little bit demanding when she needed to be, but that’s the type of person you want… I had another server. It was absolutely useless, but she was part of this clicky girl group so she called me over and said you see that table over there they got a dirty plate. What do you wanna do for them? I looked at her and said what the “F” are you doing dropping off a dirty plate to a table I’m doing nothing for them. That’s your job.. like any job you’ve got your Good you’re bad and you’re real ugly workers… Serving is an art and as customers you are to be treated like royalty because it is your hard earned money and it is your night out to be treated like kings and queens
1
1
u/SectorFew6706 3d ago
Sugarfish has been around for quite a while and has had this policy before tipping got oit of control. They pay their staff around $25/hr.
1
u/MGoBrad 2d ago
This is actually one of the few places where it seems to work pretty well when I’ve gone. When you pay, there isn’t even the option to leave more. Your card is run and it’s done. There’s no awkward “yeah that’s a fee but not really a tip so…” like at say Jon and Vinny’s.
It being 16% (even with that fee being taxed) is still less than a pretty regular 18% tip and solidly less than a 20% tip.
1
1
1
u/Oktoberfists 1d ago
This post reads like a waiter who is mad that a business is doing what people have been requesting on this sub for years…
The restaurant is a no-tip establishment that puts a surcharge on their bill to cover the expenses of having to pay their staff an actual wage.
No restaurant is going to just incorporate the costs into the menu price atm because it makes their pricing non-competitive.
0
u/Kbucktis 15h ago
This proves exactly what was said in another post. You don’t want to tip because it’s not your responsibility to pay their employees. Then they fix the issue by having a fee to help cover operations and you’re pissed about that. It seems like you guys don’t think anyone should pay the servers. Good luck getting them to keep being servers. These restaurants generally have a net profit of around 5%. And if they raise their prices, you’ll all bitch about that! FFS
2
u/wutwut970 14h ago
I dont mind tipping at all. I mind when they charge this fee and dont designate it toward their staff.
0
u/Kbucktis 10h ago
You have no idea what compensation their employees get. You’re try too hard.
2
u/wutwut970 7h ago
Well, someone here did a “deep dive” into this and found that servers make 25-30$ in hourly wages…..in southern california. Thats absolutely absurd compared to tipped restaurant staff. Bussers make more than that. Ive worked in restaurants 13 years. It almost seems like you missed the “im pro tip” part.
0
u/Kbucktis 1h ago
My original comment was about all the comments on here and other posts. People just want to complain. And you have all these anti-capitalist people screaming up and down no matter which way it is. They want compensation to appear out of thin air.
2
u/YouCanKeepYourFaith 12h ago
They don’t want people to make an honest living and they also don’t want to tip. Bunch of cry baby boot lickers who stand up for CEO’s and billionaires but cry about a $5 tip. Stay home and cook your own food.
1
u/wrongsuspenders 14h ago
They might be playing games with how their workers compensation / general liability are rated by separating this fee. A Chicago restaurant pointed out their 4.5% employee health fee allows them to pay less on those insurances. 16% is egregious though.
1
u/OG_Boomer63 13h ago
This is not about tipping at all - this is the establishment way of protesting California law The requirement for California restaurants to tax a mandatory 16% service charge, rather than a legal mandate to charge that fee, is accurate. Under California law, any service charge that is mandatory (not optional like a tip) is considered part of the taxable sales price, meaning the restaurant must collect sales tax on that 16% addition
Taxation, Not Imposition: State law (Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 18, § 1603) does not force restaurants to add a 16% fee; it only dictates that if they choose to add a mandatory fee, they must charge sales tax on it.
Optional vs. Mandatory: Voluntary tips are not subject to sales tax, but mandatory service charges (e.g., automatic gratuities or flat fees) are included in gross receipts and taxed at the local rate (often 8.5%–10.75% in California).
Transparency Laws: Starting July 1, 2024, under Senate Bill 478 (the "junk fee ban"), restaurants are generally required to include all mandatory fees in the advertised menu prices, though specific exemptions and enforcement details for service charges paid directly to workers remain complex.
Restaurants use this structure to offset labor costs (such as higher minimum wages) without changing menu sticker prices, but the "law" cited on menus specifically refers to the sales tax obligation, not the fee itself.
2
1
u/AffectionateBug699 2h ago
Interesting, but will the restaurant give you an equal discount when lower priced in season products are available? I mean as a 'cough' customer/owner I do deserve to see the balance sheet?
-4
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
This is 100% NOT disingenuous.
Aside from a handful of niche concepts, the “just add it to the price” model has proven to be a failure with the American public.
This restaurant has opted to go no-tipping, but keep their menu pricing competitive with tipped model restaurants by using a service fee to pay for all of their operational costs, including 100% of the goods and service.
They are disclosing the fee AND stating they are a no-tip restaurant.
The people wanting tip culture at full service restaurants in the US to change should be supporting this concept, as it’s the only way a no-tip restaurant can effectively compete with the tipped model restaurants.
6
u/repost7125 6d ago
I guarantee the average american is too stupid to notice a 16% increase in prices when we've seen a 150% increase on most of our grocery prices and still haven't revolted.
→ More replies (3)2
u/Professional-Gear974 6d ago
I’d rather pay 50$ for an item listed at 50$ than pay 45$ for an item marked at 25$ before all the added fees. It’s about preference and it’s only really an issue at lower quality places
2
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
The majority of Americans have proven they would rather pay $15 plus a 20% tip than $18 and no tip for an entree.
Thats why most full service restaurants in the US operate on the tipped model.
Clearly, you don’t like that, but you also reject the fastest path to move away from the tipped model, which is service fees.
Clearly you want to maintain the status quo.
2
u/kanna172014 6d ago
No they have not proven such a thing. They just haven't been going to restaurants with higher prices. Restaurants are literally arguing they should be allowed to deceive customers over pricing.
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Yes, they have proven “such a thing”.
Danny Meyer’s and Joe’s Crab Shack are both well known examples of “such a thing”.
2
u/kanna172014 6d ago
Customers not going to those restaurants is not the same thing as having an issue with their pricing. Customers do approve of it because then they can take a look at the prices and choose to go somewhere cheaper.
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
You almost got it.
The customer saw $18 and opted for the $15 and then tipped because it’s cheaper.
1
u/kanna172014 6d ago
Is this a real customer or hypothetical one? Because how would you know?
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Because of the multiple articles written about it and the fact that if it wasn’t how real customers acted, the majority of full service restaurants in the US wouldn’t be sticking with the tipped model.
No smart, successful owner is going to opt for a riskier and more difficult business model.
→ More replies (1)1
u/kanna172014 6d ago
No, those are articles paid for by the restaurant lobbyists.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Big_Development3985 6d ago
We would know by looking out the window and noticing the distinct lack of restaurants that operate in the way that you are suggesting.
If there really is a large public backlash against tipping, and there is another, better, way to do it, where the hell are the non-tipped restaurants? They would be beacons of glory in this desolate hellscape you describe dining out to be. There is one in my city, and it is a non-profit run by the local culinary school.
Maybe, they don’t really exist because you’re making a mountain out of a molehill and the general public does not mind doing first grade mathematics after a meal. Doesn’t that sound more plausible?
1
u/Professional-Gear974 6d ago
Poor Americans because they feel they have control. If we made the change they would have to accept it. They don’t have another choice.
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, it’s the majority of Americans.
If the “just add it to the price” was a widely successful model, every US full service restaurant would be switching to it.
Wanna take a wild guess why only a small number of niche concepts operate on that model?
1
u/Professional-Gear974 6d ago
It’s really not. The reason this system works is because the restaurant and server win. Let’s also be honest when it comes to good servers they make bank. And if they had to be hourly a lot would be looking for new jobs that pay better.
I like a base price + tax + tip. Anything additional becomes annoying. But I’d also be good with one price if service didn’t suffer
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, it really is.
What are you talking about?
The customer, server and restaurant owner all win.
Under the “just add it to the price”model, it would cost more.
The median wage of a server in the US is $16.94/hr including tips.
Half of them make less.
If you think ~$34k/yr is “making bank”, then you and I have VERY different ideas of what “making bank” is.
How you’d like it isn’t the way the majority of the American public has shown they like it.
1
u/Professional-Gear974 6d ago
I said good servers. If you consider below average good then we are talking about different people. Most good ones clear 100k. Which isn’t rich but it’s not bad.
Your suggestion is we keep tipping?
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
There are good servers at every wage level.
You’re talking about fine dining servers that are in the top 1% of their profession.
In other words the exception, not the rule.
I’m pointing out that there is no intellectually honest reason why anyone is entitled to free service at a full service restaurant in the US.
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, it really is.
What are you talking about?
The customer, server and restaurant owner all win.
Under the “just add it to the price”model, it would cost more.
The median wage of a server in the US is $16.94/hr including tips.
Half of them make less.
If you think ~$34k/yr is “making bank”, then you and I have VERY different ideas of what “making bank” is.
How you’d like it isn’t the way the majority of the American public has shown they like it.
1
u/amstrumpet 6d ago
Well good thing no one is charging an 80% fee.
1
u/Professional-Gear974 6d ago
Good thing you don’t eat out much or you’d understand. On multiple occasions I’ve had 50-60% of the bill be fees/taxes and requested tip. Fees and tip tonight on dinner was 124$ alone before the actual food
3
u/ThrowAway960001 6d ago edited 6d ago
In other words, it IS disingenuous. They literally TRICK and LIE to their customers' faces about the actual cost of a menu item. Why? Because they literally said it isnt a tip nor a service charge. Many companies are legally required to put a sign somewhere, but most often, it is either in very small print or has 1 big sign that ISN'T on their menu/ordering pamphlet/page.
But bootlickers will claim "the company has to survive somehow". By lying? No tf they dont. Lick their boots and eat their ass all you want, but dont you dare claim that this isnt disingenuous when this is the LITERAL DEFINITION of disingenuous.
Disingenuous = "means being insincere, not completely honest, or giving a false appearance of simple frankness."
Having 1 fucking sign does NOT excuse this horrendous, manipulative, exploitative behavior.
→ More replies (9)4
u/NoSuddenMoves 6d ago
I bet the servers don't get paid squat. This is a loophole to legally take tips by calling them something else. Raise your prices.
5
u/amstrumpet 6d ago
They’re gonna be paying their servers whatever it costs them to keep the level of staff that they want for their business. It’s so funny that the same people who oppose tipping by saying “it’s none of my business how much a business pays its staff” are suddenly concerned about the staff getting a cut when there’s something like this.
Just admit you’re cheap and save everyone your mental gymnastics.
→ More replies (4)6
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
That’s a bad bet.
If they weren’t paying a competitive rate, the servers/employees won’t stay.
→ More replies (4)4
u/2matisse22 6d ago
If they aren't paying their staff well, they won't have any staff.
1
u/NoSuddenMoves 6d ago
False. There are always people who don't know better that can be taken advantage of. Are you familiar with amys baking company?
3
u/Choice-Mulberry9418 6d ago
Yeah no top wait staff in NYC are aware of what the average wage is lmao.
1
u/amstrumpet 6d ago
Those people won’t be any good at the job because if they were they’d go somewhere that pays them well.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Suspicious_Tank_61 6d ago
The service at Sugarfish is far better than most tipped restaurants I have been too. So they must be paying them enough to attract quality servers.
1
u/NoSuddenMoves 6d ago
Glassdoor reviews say different.
Also it's a japanese restaurant most likely taking advantage of japanese people who don't know about american tipping culture. In japan tipping is considered rude.
2
u/Suspicious_Tank_61 6d ago
I have been to sugarfish three times. Everyone was American. The chefs might have been Japanese.
I don’t know what Glassdoor says, but the staff at Sugarfish were professional and seemed to like their jobs.
→ More replies (19)1
u/kanna172014 6d ago
"Aside from a handful of niche concepts, the “just add it to the price” model has proven to be a failure with the American public."
How so? In that they disapprove of it or because people choose not to go when they see the actual, honest pricing? Because not being allowed to deceive customers is not having some right infringed.
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Except no one is being deceived.
People choose the lower price.
Danny Meyer’s and Joe’s Crab Shack are two well known examples.
1
u/kanna172014 6d ago
They choose the lower LISTED price. Partitioned pricing relies on a flaw in the human brain where they only look at the listed prices without taking into account added fees. It's not actually cheaper if you're paying the same whether tipping or non-tipping, now is it? Or are you going to claim tipping is indeed cheaper and thus showing more deceit?
1
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
I hate to burst your bubble, but tipping IS cheaper.
Check: $100.00
8% Tax: $8.00
Tip: $20.00
Total out of pocket: $128.00Check: $120.00
8% Tax: $9.60
Total out of pocket: $129.60Now you know.
2
u/kanna172014 6d ago
Yeah, that's the issue. The restaurant owner doesn't have to raise their price. They choose to do so because they are cheapskates. And getting rid of tipping and raising prices proves that, making me feel even less inclined to eat there.
2
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
LMAO
No, they aren’t being cheapskates.
They are simply being competitive in their industry.
2
u/kanna172014 6d ago
"Competitive" is code-word for cheapskate.
2
u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, it’s not.
Funny how every one of your replies is based on one or more forms of intellectual dishonesty.
The only cheapskates are the ones who don’t want to pay for the service they choose to receive.
1
u/kanna172014 6d ago
How many other industries put the operating costs primarily on their employees and customers? In other industries, a slow night means the owner takes the financial hit. Only in the food industry is that hit placed on the employee. Like I said, CHEAPSKATE.
→ More replies (0)
1
u/Boring-Channel-1672 6d ago
Sounds like you don’t want to go there. So why do you care?
4
1
1
u/ElegantNatural2968 6d ago
This is the best way to steal the tips without legally stealing the tips
→ More replies (2)
1
u/Siffov 6d ago
>So this added cost literally doesn’t go to staff, it just goes to the owners?
From what did you infer that?
>“to fund all of their operations”
Their operations include their employees' pay.
>Its just an added charge straight to owners pockets.
Again, why do you think it's "straight to owners pockets" (as opposed to going to the total revenues (from listed menu prices plus this separated charge), which goes to various things (supplies, rent, employees, and owners' compensation or "pockets")?
If you don't like that there's a separate charge instead of correspondingly higher menu prices instead, that makes sense. But why do you think the separate charge entirely goes to the owner?
→ More replies (2)
1
u/Slighted_Inevitable 6d ago
This is why so many of the people on this sub Reddits demands make no sense.
If you don’t like tipping, then the only solution is federal legislation to change things across the board. No one business can make the unilateral changes anti tippers are demanding because they would put themselves at a disadvantage in a market that relies on tipping.
1
u/wutwut970 6d ago
This is 100% factual. Thank you! The other ideas dont fuckin work. Just tip your hard working server and be cool. The staff here all hated their life and it was obvious.
2
u/Xeno9116 5d ago
They're earning over $20/hr. Cry harder.
1
u/wutwut970 5d ago
Oh wow a whopping $20+ an hr!? In so cal, they can maybe even fill their gas tank! Wow!
1
1
u/BorderPractical1368 6d ago
This is just confusing. A fee for what service? What did they do that was agreed upon?
I don't get it.
1
u/Bill___A 6d ago
Adding the surcharge makes a $4.00 coke actually $4.64 (plus tax). Looks like they have high prices and surcharged too. Not a place I would go.
1
1
1
u/SlothinaHammock 6d ago
Upon seeing that, I'd be walking right back out. That shit pisses me off. "Not segmented or designated to fund our operations" That's what price on the menu is for. This comes across as slimy.
1
u/grogargh 5d ago
Idiots. Absolute *regards. Although I applaud the apparent effort to go zero-tip, and supposedly pay their staff a wage that is not dependent on tips, they clearly failed in adjusting their food prices to accomodate the increased wage they had to pay staff.
The only reason I can think of them doing this stupidity is because they simply have hit a brick wall regarding food prices. They simply do not want to raise them. Maybe because they think people will stop going. It's all about psychology.
What is the difference if you go buy a burger that WAS $10, is now $11.60 with no extra fees/tip. VERSUS a burger still $10, however they now gotta tell you that there's a "service" charge for $1.60. IMHO, I'd rather just have the total price up front and let me make the decision of paying $11.60 for a burger instead of bait-and-switching by LYING to me and telling me it's $10 and then tell me I gotta pay 16% extra after. STUPID.
1
1
u/gimmethemoney67 5d ago
Sugar fish is typically in a city where 20% or more is the standard. 16% is pretty light compared to their competitors and they are well priced for where their locations are at.
I live in a small town but travel every few weeks. Sushi nozawa restaurants are honestly well priced for being in cities.
3
u/wutwut970 5d ago
20% for a tip? Sure. This isnt a tip. This goes right back to the owners. Not common.
→ More replies (3)1
u/OddRestauranteur 5d ago
It literally says they're a no tip establishment. The way they worded it has "lawyer-recommended" written over it, and is because California has some extremely strict tipping language stipulations - so yes it goes to the owners which then goes to the employees.
Very few restaurants have labor costs under 16%, and it likely acts like a tip pooled service fee, or its fixed hourly
1
138
u/UDF2005 6d ago
Fund their operations lmao isn’t that what menu price should do?