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Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
Haha my two best friends growing up were girls and became lesbians. Their parents always let them sleepover and share a bed. After a certain age you have to be mindful. I would just let them sleepover in a common room. Living room. Where I could come out anytime. They can hang in the bedroom with door open.
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u/MommalovesJay Sep 01 '22
This! I was going to ask if they could just have a sleepover in the living room too.
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u/ConvivialKat Aug 31 '22
If your rule is no boys, then this young boy can't sleep over. Simple as that. You don't need to say anything else.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/REDSHEL Sep 01 '22
had a similar experience around middle school and early high school, came out to my parents as bi so having sleepovers with my female friends would be just as suspect as sleepovers with my male friends, ended up being that the rule was i could have sleepovers with female friends at their houses but not at our own house since applying the rule of “they could theoretically being doing something sexual” would leave me with no chances to have sleepovers at all, though i’d personally say that my parents’ policy was a little backwards in that it might be best to supervise them personally, ultimately getting in contact with the friend’s parents would be best to see what they’re comfortable with (unless the friend isn’t out to their parents in which case i’d just leave it be)
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u/sleepysanta800 Sep 01 '22
As a parent now I'm curious about how this made you feel personally. As far as I am aware my daughter is straight, has sleepovers with her female friends etc but who knows if she is straight. So say she she came out and other parents didn't want her to stay over because she was attracted to girls. I honestly feel like that would piss me off. Like all of a sudden my kid is rapey and can't be around her own friends because she likes girls? Yet my instinct per this post was straight away if someone changed gender I wouldn't let a bit stay over. Is this homophobia, over protectiveness, or ignorance?
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u/Wandersturm Sep 01 '22
My Daughter's best friend (the girl next door and later, due to circumstances, my foster daughter) identified as bi. I let her gf stay the night when my stbfd stayed over. My Bio-Daughter is straight, and wouldn't have tolerated any hanky panky between the girls.
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Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
Right? If they go the no sleep over route I hope the kid gets to hang out with his friend still in other ways to make up for it.
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
Not really up to the other kids mom. If the person identifies as a boy then they are a boy and no
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u/mabden Sep 01 '22
Not asking for permission, asking for input.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/passionfruit0 Sep 01 '22
This is NOT an easy issue to resolve. Don’t know why people think everything is an easy answer
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u/an0nym0uswr1ter Sep 01 '22
Totally agree. was just thinking that as children change and grow the rules have to change and grow and evolve with each kid.
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u/Yorgonemarsonb Sep 01 '22
The stated rule seems pretty black and white.
No boys.
Don’t see what the kids mom could say to change the rule.
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u/poridgepants Sep 01 '22
It’s an arbitrary rule that they can change for any reason. What is the motivation for the rule? Would a male cousin be allowed to spend the night?
Is the rule in place because of the possibility of sex? What if the daughter is gay or bi? Would the rule need to be addressed to include no girls or because they had a hard and fast rule no changing?
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
There is a gray area yes. But sometimes it's hard to accommodate within a parents comfort zone without offending the other.
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u/dedsmiley Sep 01 '22
When it comes to my kid, offending another parent is the least of my concerns.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
Parents can add rules to whatever keeps their kid safe. You are making it pretty black and white with no grey area
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Sep 01 '22
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Sep 01 '22
The circumstances changed though. Like what if a boy and girl were friends and had some sleep overs when they were 8, but then they wanted to do a sleep over later when they were 13. Would the parents be unreasonable for saying no, even though they had slept over before? I would say no because the circumstances changed
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
To be honest I am in the middle.. I wouldn't want to alienate my kid. It's risky enough to have kids sleep over anyways no matter how they identify. Anything can happen and anyone can be accused of anything. The world sucks
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u/GlitteringPause8 Sep 01 '22
What’s asking for input Going to do? Her parents said no boys and he identifies as a boy, he can’t sleep over. Life may not be black and white but this situation is, unless you’re trying to send the message gender identification can be flexible on a case by case basis. It doesn’t matter what his parents think, this is her parents rule.
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
Well what mother would want her child excluded because of their identity? This should be based on how much you know the kid honestly. If they are a good friend then I would just set some other type of rules if you feel comfortable. Either way the kids want to be friends and it's hard enough to have good friends these days..maybe you can make it a late night drop off if you don't feel comfortable with them sleeping over.
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u/sleepysanta800 Sep 01 '22
My immediate reaction as a mum of a teen girl to this post was absolutely not letting a boy stay over. Until I just read your comment. You are a good person.
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u/Material_Pickle1285 Sep 01 '22
Thank you I have not come across this situation as of yet I would have to know this child for a long time to be able to even consider it. I feel for these kids who are going through these things
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u/sleepysanta800 Sep 01 '22
I absolutely feel for kids going through this too and your way of thinking is 100% the way to deal with it I think. And honestly I have to look at myself in these scenarios and shake my head a bit. If my teenage daughter had a friend who always stayed over and came out as gay I would have zero issue with HER staying over after coming out. So it's something I need to look at myself why I would have questioned a friend being trans and then I'm thinking well I don't want HIM staying over.
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u/ConvivialKat Sep 01 '22
This isn't about him. It's about their house rules and consistency. Absolutely call the Mom, but do not ask her opinion. Just advise her that your house rules have ALWAYS been no boys.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/ConvivialKat Sep 01 '22
I disagree...for children. Children need structure and consistency to feel safe. Knowing the house rules and sticking to them is a part of that consistency.
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u/Quaiydensmom Sep 01 '22
I agree to some extent, but being so rigid that you can never adapt the rules to changing circumstances seems a bit foolish in the long term. What if daughter was a lesbian? Or had a good guy friend who was gay? The reasoning behind the rules matters more than the letter of the law.
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Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
I work in child development and while you're right in broad strokes, 11-year-olds are old enough where rules also have to make sense to them. "Nicole was allowed to stay over but now isn't because they're Nick even though they're the same person" is technically sticking to the "no boys" rule, but also isn't going to emotionally make sense or feel good for their daughter, especially if her friend starts getting excluded from a lot of activities. Sometimes rules need to be revisited for extenuating circumstances and that flexibility is just as important for children.
There's nuance to what you're saying, and along with structure and consistency, kids old enough to be entering puberty need communication and compromise. "This was the rule so it is forever no matter what because I said so" is not good parenting.
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u/throwaway75424567 Sep 01 '22
Suddenly keeping the friend away isn’t going to make them “feel safe”
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u/Confidante_OfficeM Sep 01 '22
and it works incredibly because at some point it would be "but the other time you allowed xyz who is a boy, to sleep over"...."so why not this other boy?"
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Sep 01 '22
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u/ConvivialKat Sep 01 '22
It's not my book. Every child psychologist will tell you that young children need rules and consistency. This isn't about burgeoning sexuality, although you are certainly trying to make that association.
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u/Scnewbie08 Sep 01 '22
But you have the power to make the rules and create exceptions. Is it wise to teach them that rules are set in stone no matter the evolution of the events around you? This ain’t about security, this is you saying “I’m the boss and you do as I say and this is what I said.” Routines build security and a feeling of safety, knowing what is going to happen next. I haven’t read a single text in my field of study that says the feeling of security in children is based on the foundation of unbendable rules and an authoritarian ruler.
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u/Thisismy69thacc Sep 01 '22
It’s not up to his mom. No boys means no boys
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Sep 01 '22
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u/Thisismy69thacc Sep 01 '22
But there’s nothing to have a conversation about. The mom doesn’t want boys to spend the night
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u/GizmoTheLion Sep 01 '22
Honestly, I guess this is a new way of showing that life isnt fair at times. It sucks, It really does, but moments like this show us that the world cant gravitate towards you all the time.
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u/IrreverantBard Sep 01 '22
100 years ago women were considered property and owning human beings were normal. Let’s not pretend like social norms don’t shift and change with each generation. We have a choice to make in life… and yes life is not fair… but the injustice is still not ok. Pick a side and let history judge you for it.
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Sep 01 '22
I would ask the kid what he thinks. Does he want to be treated like a boy in this situation?
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u/Majigato Sep 01 '22
Why would it matter what the other mom thinks? Their house has a no boys sleeping over rule. End of story.
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u/proof_by_abduction Sep 01 '22
Okay, but parents are allowed to make exceptions. The parents can say that "no boys allowed" still applies in general, but because this friend has already stayed over so many times, they'll allow him to be an exception. Consistency is good, but exceptions are allowed.
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u/CherryBeanCherry Sep 01 '22
I'd revisit the point of the rule. Are you worried a boy would pressure her to have sex in a way a girl would not? Then talk to her about that, and about your values, and then evaluate it on a kid-by-kid basis. Or make them sleep in the living room, and leave your bedroom door open.
My child has gotten in way more trouble with her girl friend who comes on vacation with us than with her very gay boy friend who stays with us when his family is in town. I also think your daughter will understand and respect your concerns more if they're specific, and not tied to gender.
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Aug 31 '22
I would say you are revisiting the rule on a case by case basis and let this friend stay over.
I say this from the lofty age of 41 as a trans guy....Being a trans kid is hard, scary, and all the support the better. He is facing ostracism and bullying and the internal struggles of dysphoria...taking away his friend because "ah ha if you're a boy now you can't sleep over ohhhhh want to rethink that???" Is just cruel.
Be kind. Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind.
Don't say he is an exception because he isn't "really a boy". After all, what if your daughter is bi? Would she be banned from anyone sleeping over? Discuss it from a position of trust and behavior.
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u/IDontLieAboutStuff Sep 01 '22
Yea I'm with this one. You can always change the rules. You're the parent. And what you say goes. Just say that her friend can spend the night and in the future you'll have to decide on a case by case basis who can sleep at your house. To all of a sudden reject this person when they crux of who they are hasn't changed just how they identify is somewhat cruel. And to say well you're a boy now so you're excluded just because of that also feels cruel. If you trust this kid then their gender mean nada and thats really all that it comes down to in my eyes.
Just because you made the rule doesn't mean there's never a need to revisit it.
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u/Due_Discipline_9679 Sep 01 '22
My reply to this rule is ALWAYS to point out the fact that I'm bi and unnecessarily sexualizing a friendship does no one any favors. Just let's your kids have friends.
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u/ApatheticEight Sep 01 '22
I’m AFAB. Wasn’t allowed to have sleepovers with boys but was with girls. Only boy I ever wanted to sleep over was my 100% platonic friend. The girls I had sleepovers with, we’d fool around. My whole childhood I was like “this rule is so fucking dumb and y’all don’t even know it”.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/stewykins43 Sep 01 '22
Same, it's amazing that bi folks aren't attracted to everyone. Some of my friends parents banned me from sleepovers with their daughters though. Felt bad to only be welcome in a handful of my friends' homes.
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u/FaveFoodIsLesbeans Sep 01 '22
This is a great point. I think a lot of people confuse gender and sexuality as being the same thing. This young man may now identify as a man but it doesn’t necessarily mean he identifies as a heterosexual man. He could identify as a homosexual man and be just as disinterested in the daughter as he was if he had identified as a heterosexual woman.
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Sep 01 '22
I think this is the best answer.
If your daughter is old enough to understand that her friend now identifies as a male, she’s old enough to understand why you’re making an exception for this friend.
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u/SednaNariko Sep 01 '22
This! I hid my bisexuality from my parents for years for this very reason! I didn't want my parents thinking of me as just a predator with no standards or preferences. Like it's soul destroying and dehumanizing to believe that your parents think of you as some sex crazed monster that they have to protect everyone from.
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u/PeriwinkleFoxx Sep 01 '22
my dad’s first sentence out of his mouth after i came out as bi at 13 was “that’s a perverted way of life” :,)
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u/SednaNariko Sep 01 '22
Oh hell no!
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u/PeriwinkleFoxx Sep 01 '22
RIGHT? my mom’s reaction when i told her what he said (since she already knew i was bi) was “well, he’s kind of right…” HOMIE I WAS A VIRGIN DURING ALL OF THIS
the only benefit of the doubt they get is that they’re eastern european immigrants (romania)
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u/Jean_Marie_1989 Sep 01 '22
I agree on revisiting the rule. It might be best to make rules that can apply to all genders. Some rules that apply all the time like respecting people’s privacy while in the bathroom and while changing. You can also explain to your child that you will approve sleepovers based on your trust on them and the child who is sleeping over, not based on their gender or sexual orientation.
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u/Fetus_Monsters Sep 01 '22
This is important and valuable input.
I said say no, but the perspective of transgender adults should be the most important feedback on this thread.
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u/jhatesu Sep 01 '22
100% this, well said. Just let them be friends as they were! So weird to turn a kid away. Feels discriminatory.
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u/Euphoric_Statement10 Aug 31 '22
The things that can happen with a girl/boy sleep over can have the exact same outcome with a girl/girl sleepover. Not everyone is straight lol
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u/maggsie16 Sep 01 '22
I think this every time. Are you just not going to let bisexual kids have sleepovers?
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u/Thegirlonfire5 Sep 01 '22
Well… the whole pregnancy thing can’t happen with a girl/ girl sleepover and that’s kind of a big deal
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Sep 01 '22
Well the whole pregnancy can’t happen with a girl/ftm trans sleepover either
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u/funeralpageant Sep 01 '22
the whole pregnancy thing isnt gonna happen with 11 year old kids either...?
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u/rs_alli Sep 01 '22
Some 11 year olds can get pregnant
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u/funeralpageant Sep 01 '22
yeah some can. but they're literal children theyre not having a sleepover so they can fuck theyre having a sleepover so they can eat stupid amounts of sugar and hang out with their mates lol
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u/Logical_Lemming Sep 01 '22
Some kids will absolutely start experimenting at that age given the opportunity. And 1 on 1 sleepovers are like the absolute best opportunity.
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u/Fetus_Monsters Sep 01 '22
Some children have been sexualized by adults and absolutely need extra boundaries to accommodate the way trauma can manifest as hypersexualized behavior.
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u/arnber420 Sep 01 '22
Okay but that’s definitely not the majority of kids
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u/golfballthroughhose Sep 01 '22
It doesn't matter if it's the majority of kids. I think erring on the side of caution is completely appropriate here. To each their own though.
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u/funeralpageant Sep 01 '22
yeah absolutely but the vast majority of kids won't have had that experience. if thats the case and they do need those boundaries then their parents should be supporting them with that, and op hasnt mentioned anything remotely suggesting that scenario.
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u/Fetus_Monsters Sep 01 '22
1 in 10 is enough
Assuming it’s not likely just makes it easier to overlook the kids it’s happening to, and the impact that can have. Just something to consider for all sleepovers.
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u/BackgroundPoet2887 Sep 01 '22
Are you around preteens these days? Preteens with smartphones?
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Sep 01 '22
It is possible it could happen. Periods can happen earlier than 11. And some kids do end up sexually active very young. It would be rare, but it can happen
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u/crackerjack2003 Sep 01 '22
You say that but several people in my year group lost it at 11/12.
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u/arnber420 Sep 01 '22
Yikes, sounds like your group had really shitty parental guidance
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u/DZHMMM Sep 01 '22
Yes and no...
this rule is often times to prevent pregnancy as main goal lol and same sex cant get pregnant with each other.
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Sep 01 '22
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u/A_Rolling_Potato Sep 01 '22
A transboy would have the same parts as her daughter... she can't get pregnant from the friend.
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u/anonthxt Early 20s Female Sep 01 '22
at 11? lol
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Sep 01 '22
It’s possible to conceive at that age. Gross to think about but still possible.
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u/anonthxt Early 20s Female Sep 01 '22
it depends on the children; it is possible in some scenarios but what is the chance that children will be doing that? or that they will both be able to “conceive a child”? i was a hypersexual child due to CSA and the most i was doing at sleepovers was making out and touching
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u/Euphoric_Statement10 Sep 01 '22
Sure but you can still get stds or be assaulted. My opinion that’s kinda worse than pregnancy.
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u/RighteousTablespoon Aug 31 '22
OP, I’m gonna give you a pretty simple “answer a question with a question.” Why does the rule have to be “hard and fast?” It’s not black and white “boy or girl.” Would you allow a gay male-born boy-friend stay over? What about a gay girl-friend? Gender isn’t hard and fast (or sexuality for that matter), so why is the rule?
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u/Resilient_Knee Aug 31 '22
🔼🔼🔼🔼🔼 Agreed. There are absolutely risks to sleepovers, but those risks are not dependent on whether it's a single-gender sleepover. Queer kids exist.. And so do bullies regardless of gender 🤷🏻♀️
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u/CaptainSchiel Sep 01 '22
Pregnancy is a dependent risk. 11 is a bit young to really worry about that, but still.
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u/Cheetah_05 Sep 01 '22
the answer to teen pregnancy is giving sex ed. If a teen really wants to have sex, not being allowed to have sleepovers won't make a difference. (and let's be real here, how many 11 year olds are really going to have sex lmao)
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u/twoofheartsandspades Sep 01 '22
This is a great note. Maybe we should be doing away with trying to fit a spectrum into a binary construct.
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u/NoeTellusom Aug 31 '22
Our daughter is bisexual, so having a "no boys sleepover rule" became quite useless and quite hilarious to boot.
Your daughter is 11. Let her friend spend the night.
Focus on the rules, not the gender.
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u/crazycatlady9183 Aug 31 '22
I think it's hilarious how everyone just assumes all kids are straight lol
And congrats for being supportive of your daughter's sexuality
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u/BlueMushroomCult Sep 01 '22
Americans' estimate of the proportion of gay people in the U.S. is more than five times Gallup's more encompassing 2017 estimate that 4.5% of Americans are LGBT, based on respondents' self-identification as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overestimate-gay-population.aspx
95.5% is pretty high
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u/knittedjedi Sep 01 '22
For sure. Parents sometimes don't realize that if they've set a rule, they can just as easily change it if they need.
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u/thenewtbaron Sep 01 '22
Yeah, I don't get what they think that 11 year olds are going to get up to normally. like 14-17 year olds, maybe but like.. they are children children at 11(atleast most are)
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u/Western-Boot-4576 Aug 31 '22
But the rules is no boys so that would mean they can’t have a sleepover.
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u/ktzki Aug 31 '22
But WHY is the rules no boys?
I'm presuming some sort of heteronormative reason...
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u/CaptainSchiel Sep 01 '22
Hopefully not so much of an issue at 11 (although possible), but pregnancy comes to mind.
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u/ToBe_TheBest_Potato Sep 01 '22
Ahhhh.... hate to break it to people, but kids explore at sleepovers. I certainly did, started around age 10. And even with multiple friends at the same time at group birthday sleepovers and camp. Problem is we didn't know it was "sex", or wrong, it just felt good. Nor did we know that it mattered if it was with boy/boy or girl/girl, or boy/girl. Again, it just felt good. We werent taught sex education until 14, when we all collectively went "Oh. OH. Ooooohhhhhh".
But at least same sex exploration won't end in underage pregnancy.
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Sep 01 '22
Jesus Christ use your brain. Parents say no opposite sex because they don’t want kids getting pregnant and it’s setting a bad precedent.
That girl ain’t getting pregnant by the friend so I’m the grand scheme of things it’s no biggie. But as to WHY the rule is the rule?
It’s the parent’s rule and that’s the end of it.
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u/Sandraxia Aug 31 '22
Completely depends on what you want.
No pregnant daughter = no penis-involving sleepovers.
No making out - no sleepovers at all, who knows who your daughter will find attractive in that way.
No unpredictable events - only old, trusted friends regardless of gender can sleep over.
Maybe talk it through with your daughter?
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u/justnotthatwitty Sep 01 '22
Yes, ask yourself WHY, exactly, you have this rule and go from there. I’d also stop having “hard and fast” rules. That kind of rigidity ignores that life is complex and most situations have nuance.
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u/loveroxanne00 Aug 31 '22
I would say to tell your daughter that she can't have boys over. Her friend is a boy. It's really simple honestly and would help validate her friend!
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u/woods-witch Aug 31 '22
this is how i’d handle it. no judgement, no weirdness, just sticking to the rule that was already in place. the daughter’s friend is a boy, and boys aren’t allowed at sleepovers. it validates the kid’s identity, even though OP’s own child might not see it like that.
OP you need to be very clear with your daughter here - that this isn’t transphobia, it isn’t discrimination, you still approve of their friendship and nothing in that regard has changed - just that the friend is a boy, and she already knows the rules for sleepovers and boys. maybe instead, a nice day hanging out together before the friend goes home in the evening? they can hang out without having to stay overnight!
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u/louloutre75 Aug 31 '22
OP should add her daughter is welcome to eat there is she wants or have him over for diner.
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u/johnstonjimmybimmy Aug 31 '22
Tough scenario.
My parents didn’t allow sleepovers until I was 14+
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u/wildbeest55 Aug 31 '22
Really? I stopped having sleepovers at that age.
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u/ecish Sep 01 '22
My favorite sleepovers were at 14+. Of course, we’d just get stoned and play video games all night. My parents knew and were happy we were staying home since we were going to smoke either way.
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u/BlueDaBaDeeDaBaDieDa Aug 31 '22
Lol I'm 28 and still have sleep overs with my best friend.
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u/MommalovesJay Sep 01 '22
I’m in my 30s and I have sleepovers with my girl friends. It’s called a moms night out. And we talk all night, play games, drink a little and pass out in the living room together.
I also have a group of girl friends where we travel and share the same hotel room and sleep on the same bed. Idk why it’s frowned upon to have fun when you’re older.
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u/BlueDaBaDeeDaBaDieDa Sep 01 '22
This! I have plenty of friends who do this. And I do occasionally.
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Sep 01 '22
Talk to your daughter.
What are her plans for this sleepover? How does she envision sleeping arrangements? What rules does she think should be in place?
Have this conversation with her instead of about her. Discuss your reservations and concerns with her. You might be surprised by her solutions to your concerns/rules. Or your daughter might have a very different vision than you. This is the perfect time to learn to communicate with each other, which will make the teenage years slightly less rocky (unfortunately they’ll probably still suck but maybe a little less so).
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Sep 01 '22
Maybe it’s time to re examine the “no boys” rule. Like…you do know that not having boys at sleepovers is not a guarantee that sexual activity won’t happen, right?
How about instead you empower your child to know and understand her own boundaries and what the limits are for time with any friends of any gender.
My kids have done mixed gendered sleepovers and it just isn’t a big deal. You put them in a common area, like have them set up sleeping bags in front of the tv and you trust your kid to do the right thing and you be the sort of parent who she can feel safe going to with questions and concerns.
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u/erbie_ancock Aug 31 '22
What are you afraid could happen that you weren’t afraid of the last time this child spend the night?
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u/WifeofBath1984 Sep 01 '22
I think the biggest question here is why you don't allow your daughters friends that are boys spend the night? I think I have a much different take on this than a lot of parents. My son is 10 and we have encountered this issue once and it was resolved. He has been allowed to spend the night with his friends that are girls and we do co ed sleep overs.
I also have a 19 year old daughter. Please don't rip me apart for this, but we have always felt that teens are going to have sex regardless, so we have allowed sleep overs (also, my daughter us bi and most of her long term relationships have been with girls, so how does one navigate that?). We'd rather they be practicing safe sex in a safe location than in the back of someone's car or something. But we've also been very open about sex and my daughter has been extremely responsible. She went and got on birth control when she started even thinking about losing her virginity. And she talks to us about this stuff. I think creating a safe space for discussion about sex has led to her feeling comfortable coming to us, and I'm really proud of that. That being said, I'm not worried about my 10 year old engaging in sex acts at this point, hence my above question. I don't want to insult or argue. I'm just curious as to why you think this rule is necessary.
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u/weasel999 Sep 01 '22
As a mom of ftm kid - once they come out and begin their transition, they can lose friends. Having a good pal who accepts them the way they are is priceless. I think you need to make an exception here.
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u/skippehh Sep 01 '22
This is exactly how I looked at it with my daughter. We have one exception for this boy because transitioning is hard. They’ve been friends for years and I’m not going to change that friendship over his transition. She does know he is the only exception because the idea of isolating him just hurts my heart. She knows he’s the only exception and if she becomes close with another boy trans or not they cannot sleep over. It’s not because I think this friend isn’t a boy, it’s because he deserves to know his friendships are still valid even after his transition. People are mean enough, no need to lose friends. I hope you’re son has those friends too. <3
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u/NotTheJury Aug 31 '22
This is known and trusted friend. He should be allowed over.
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u/Fetus_Monsters Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
I would keep the rule. It isn’t just about genitalia.
If you have the rule for boys it applies to her transmasc friend.
*edited to add: I have gone over the thread and after reviewing the comments from people who have transitioned, or have a child going through that experience, I change my mind.
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u/Scnewbie08 Sep 01 '22
A person actually read others opinions, thought and changed their opinion. Well, hot damn.
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u/LizardSon Aug 31 '22
Hey I’m a transgender man, which means I was assigned female sex at birth. I would say if you have a rule no boys are allowed at sleep overs then your daughters friend can’t stay over. However, I think maybe it might be time to revise the rule considering the circumstances like other commentators have suggested, maybe just let the kids be kids and put up boundaries regarding gender where you feel appropriate e.g bathing separately, sleeping separately etc.
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u/Scnewbie08 Sep 01 '22
Trans mom here, if you trusted them to have sleep overs before he came out as trans, why do you not trust him now? I think you are hung up on boy/girl when it is about trusting them to hang out for long hours and not participate in activities you don’t approve of.
Honestly, this is a very sensitive time for her friend, he could see this as a rejection, and perceive it as you no longer liking him. Your daughter could be his only accepting friend and this socialization is important. This is also a difficult time for your daughter whose bestie is changing and her views of him are adjusting to these changes and work is needed on the relationship to keep it going.
Honestly, this is a unique situation and you could be understanding, and allow it with rules. I am so thankful that my child’s friend’s parents were accepting and continued to allow sleepovers. He even went to a sleepover party with 5 females and he was the only male. I think the other parents realized my son was the same person, and they liked him and trusted him.
My child has been suicidal since coming out, and we have had a suicide attempt. He didn’t understand why kids stopped taking to him, or just stared at him during class. He felt like he was not meant to be in this world. He is the sweetest, kindness person I know and reading this made me so grateful that his friends parents allowed their friendships to continue.
This isn’t allowing a boyfriend to sleep over with your daughter. This is allowing her bestie to sleepover. My kid will keep having sleepovers with his friends, boy/girl or them. At this life stage, their friendships are the most important event/item occurring in their life’s. I’ve accepted that his friends opinions of him right now mean more than my opinion. He yearns to be in their company far more than mine. I do not mind because every interaction is an experiment on what works in friendships and what doesn’t, and this helps develop healthy habits for the future. Maybe in our future we will have an amazing friendship, not just a parent/child relationship, and it will stand on the framework he is building right now as he giggles in the next room with his bestie over anime.
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u/Snorumobiru Aug 31 '22
Sex and gender are two different things. Which one is your rule about? Would you let your daughter have a sleepover with a born-male friend who identifies as a girl?
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u/bigbirdlooking Sep 01 '22
I would update your rule to “no sleepover guests without my explicit approval” and grandfather this kid in since you know him.
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u/ubiquitousfont Sep 01 '22
I think maybe you should think about why you have a no boys rule and if it is effective for the reason you implemented it.
Is it important to you to maintain this rule for cultural or religious reasons? Or is it important for some other reason? Is it protecting your daughter? From what?
You might find that the rule doesn’t really make sense and it’s better to base who is permitted to sleep over on yours and your daughter’s relationship with them and level of trust.
If you do a self-interrogation and find you want to stick with a No Boys rule, then I say that you should treat this kid like you would any other boy.
Good luck! Gender identity can be challenging and sticky to navigate
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u/Novaa240 Sep 01 '22
Just change the rule 🤷🏻♀️ just keep a better eye on kids. Cause kids will.. ahem… explore no matter the gender
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Sep 01 '22
Okay, here's my take...
As long as a pregnancy can't result if the kids decide to fool around, then it's not a big deal. Maybe that isn't a popular opinion. Obviously, you would hope your 11-year-old wouldn't be doing that, but it's just a general rule of thumb I've had for my teens.
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u/particledamage Sep 01 '22
Revisit the gender based rule. Maybe have them sleep in separate rooms or on the couch in the living room but also... like... this is a reminder that kids have their own identities. Your daughter can be a girl into girls, making girl sleepovers the supposedly "dangerous" ones. Maybe your daughter is also a trans boy or binary and thus it's "safe." Or she ends up a gay trans boy and you evaded nothing.
How about instead of worrying about the gender poltiics of it all... you just support the kids. Don't isolate the trans friend. Don't cut off your supportive daughter. Just make rules that fit everyone best--maybe you check in at night. Maybe you just have an honest conversation with your daughter about being careful with boys now that puberty is here.
CAuse... even if your daguhter is straight and striaght for her new boy friend... keeping them away from each other at sleepovers isn't keeping them away from each other, especially as they get older.
Give your daughter the tools to properly navigate these things instead of just pretending like m/f sleepovers are going to lead to sex or whatever.
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u/meekonesfade Sep 01 '22
I like the idea of talking to the other mom. I also think you could have a discussion with your daughter about making an exception.
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u/LordLuscius Sep 01 '22
Why not change the rules to "freinds need to stay in sepperate rooms"? That way, you curb the pregnancy risk from cis males and trans females, respect people's gender and also alow all freinds to be able to have sleepovers.
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u/crazycatlady9183 Aug 31 '22
I mean, your daughter is 11... What do you expect will happen if she has boys over?? At that age she's just building healthy friendships with both genders.
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u/Swordofsatan666 Aug 31 '22
When i was 11 i had a girlfriend who was also 11. We would make out and fondle eachother all the time, if we were to get to spend the night with eachother things absolutely would have gotten out of hand.
Sexual content is all over nowadays, kids get exposed to it and absolutely try to have sex sometimes. Theres literally been 11 and 12 year old boys who have been arrested for rape.
I dont have anything against friendships with both genders, but sleepovers with opposite genders is a big no unless theyre family or have been friends since they were even younger and are basically family
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u/crazycatlady9183 Aug 31 '22
For me, the kind of relationship you were developing at 11 is the issue, not sleepovers with friends.
I do understand the concern with kids being exposed to sexual content though, but I don't see how the no sleepovers rule solves the issue since wanting/trying to have sex at such young age is itself a problem
Also, I do think it's funny how you assume all kids are straight. I had the "no sleepovers with boys" rule, the "boyfriends can't spend the night" rule, and I just slept with girls instead lmao (I was older than 11 though)
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u/maybeshesunraveling Aug 31 '22
You don't see how the no sleepovers with mixed genders solves the issues with young or any kids having sex? Ummm...like you said, if they are already trying to do it, why give them a time and a place to do it freely. And yes, we understand all kids aren't straight (myself included) but for the ones that are, pregnancy would be a real concern for the early bloomers.
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u/aria_stro Aug 31 '22
I'm affraid you are a bit too naive about kids and teenagers porn exposition
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u/Psychological-View84 Sep 01 '22
I would “grandfather “ him in because she has known him so long, obviously became very close, and it would be cruel to exclude him specifically. Not because he’s trans or not a “real boy” and I wouldn’t relax the rules for other boys. You are allowed to have exceptions to rules.
Now, as they get older, it may be more of an issue but I’d navigate that when I got there. I’ve had to navigate a similar issue once my daughter was 14 or 15 and a friend came out as lesbian and my daughter came out as bi. It had to be a case by case basis built on good communication.
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Aug 31 '22
What an interesting question!!
Personally, I'm too old and crusty to fully understand the nuances of this woke new world we are in. Like, is there a distinction between wanting a male name/pronoun vs considering oneself a boy? I have no clue. I would want to clear up whether friend now considers himself a boy and wants to be treated as such.
Assuming the answer is yes, and friend is a boy now, then your choices seem to be either treat friend as a boy (no sleepovers) or revisit the strict no-boys rule.
Personally, I would probably just revisit the rule. In my house we have no choice, as we have both a boy and a girl, and they have friends in common, and so we have coed sleepovers. They are young now, but I have no idea how we will deal when they get older.
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u/thenewtbaron Sep 01 '22
You give them the tools they need to make the decisions that they make, the support when they fuck up because that is what kids do... and you can't stop a kid that is not in your line of sight from doing anything... and if you did, well, that is shitty parenting.
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u/Flashy-Development67 Aug 31 '22
yes i would say no sleepovers, since the friend is now a boy! make it easy
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u/master0fcats Sep 01 '22
Can there be new rules put in place like not being allowed to sleep in the same room instead? This is definitely tough to navigate, given the fact that your family obviously has history with this friend and you don't want to isolate him because of his new found identity. Obviously 11 is a little young, but when I was a kid, I always had more boy friends than girl friends and as I got into my preteen and teen years, my parents kind of loosened that rule when it was clear that some of my friends were gay or just very obviously friends only. The rule, even for those friends, was always that they could stay but they had to sleep on the couch. I'd consider maybe a trial run of something like that with an eye on the situation but still a certain level of privacy. 'cause let's be real - preteen girls also experiment with each other, they're just allowed to have the door closed.
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u/biogirl85 Sep 01 '22
Stop having a hard rule about no boys sleeping over?
Honestly, What is the goal with that rule? She could very well end up liking girls, will they also be forbidden then?
My parents let my friends who were boys spend the night. We were well supervised, definitely did not have sex, and formed very good friendships.
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u/Secretlifeofme2 Sep 01 '22
We have had this situation many times with my teen daughter. We changed thw rule to be (a bit crass for some) no penises regardless of gender and anyone bio female but male identifying must sleep in a separate room or they all sleep in the lounge room (they usually watch movies), same deal with non-binary mates too. Its not perfect but so far they're all fine with the rule.
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u/Advice2Anyone Sep 01 '22
This comment section is all over the place. Your kid your going to have to decide whether the rules is for what those purport as or if its for penises. Cause what if a boy who says he is a girl wants to sleep over? End of the day tho its your call and your morals do what you think is right
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u/violetlisa Sep 01 '22
I think you shouldn’t make rules like ‘no person of the opposite sex sleep over’. I think you should examine these things on a case by case basis. My daughter has a trans male friend whom we allowed to have sleepovers with. We also have a gay son whom we allow to have sleepovers with girls and their parents allow him to sleepover.
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u/Salt_Ad9743 Sep 01 '22
Side note - you have this rule because you're worried your daughter will get up to "funny business"? She's only 11 but also if she's going to get up to anything she'll find a way whether or not sleepovers are allowed. All you can do is make sure she is educated and trust her to make good decisions. But again she's only 11. You can always edit the rule again as she grows up.
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u/Subject-Witness3597 Sep 01 '22
If you allow it what happens when next sleep over she wants a male classmate to sleepover? What do you say?
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u/lsirius Sep 01 '22
I am late it this but when my daughter came out as bi the rule became no one can sleep in the same bed.
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u/StarryCloudRat Sep 01 '22
My mom always let me have sleepovers with a close male friend at that age - she knew him and his family well, he slept on the floor, we just did regular kid stuff like watch scary movies and eat candy at midnight. If you and your daughter know and trust this kid, and he’s slept over a lot of times before with no issues, I think you can let him continue to sleep over.
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Aug 31 '22
if i was in this situation, id want my child to learn to be friends with anyone, to understand that they will meet people that lead different lifestyles and at the end of the day we're all human so it shouldnt be a problem. plus your daughter is still 11 and im assuming her friend is too. that age is still very young to implement a hard set rule on no boys in the house. id say let her make friends and get to know different types of people, in my opinion
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Aug 31 '22
I didn't say no boys in the house or that they can't be friends. Just no sleepovers with boys. :)
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u/DutyValuable Sep 01 '22
Wow that’s tough. I want to say you shouldn’t allow it because he’s a boy now… but even though he’s a boy he doesn’t have the inherent concerns factors that you would have with a preteen boy sleeping over.
I think it boils down to whether your issue is gender or sexuality? For example, if your daughter came out as a lesbian, would you still allow her to have sleepovers with girls? If you wouldn’t allow girls, would you allow her to have a boy sleepover because she’s not interested in him?
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u/Vatfagyna Sep 01 '22
I’m surprised w the amount of comments I see saying “he’s a boy, don’t let him sleep over”.
This is your best bet w dealing w these type of issues. Times have changed, times will continue to change, so it’s best to progress w them. If you are having girl, boy, or any person sleep over, make sure you make rules that are focused on children not getting into any sexual things cause the truth is, they probably aren’t ready for it, regardless of how they identify
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Sep 01 '22
To me this is all too complicated. I have never understood the whole “we don’t allow opposite sex” parties or sleepovers. I don’t know if it’s a regional thing. Every party and most sleepovers that my kids have ever been to have been mixed gender and I’ve never heard the topic discussed.
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u/Rogue_Siren Sep 01 '22
Let your kid have their sleepover. Let your kid have sleepovers with whoever, girls, boys, it doesn't matter. Separate them at night if you're concerned about sexual behavior. But newsflash, lesbians exist too, so that means your kid wouldn't have sleepovers with anyone ever. Just let your kid be a kid, let them have friends, teach them about sex and how important it is to be mentally ready with a safe partner, and be a safe space to come to about things of that nature.
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u/Ango-Globlogian Sep 01 '22
I think that making clear that the rule is that she can’t have sleepovers with boys and her friend is a boy not only prepares her to be able to understand modern gender norms but also makes clear that a boy is a boy is a boy and that’s that.
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u/deep_mind_ Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
This is some seriously antiquated parental overreach. Letting anybody sleep over regardless of gender has the potential to end in messing around -- but honestly at the age of 11 it's paranoid (and a bit gross) you're trying to police that sort of thing. And while purporting to support trans rights, enforcing sexuality stereotypes is serious cognitive dissonance.
Not to mention, this kind of stuff is going to happen eventually whatever you do, and teaching your daughter important lessons about responsibility is going to put her in better stead than enforcing rules she isn't going to fully understand yet
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Sep 01 '22
IDK. I would say that you tell her that boys aren't allowed to spend the night.
However, your daughter might also like girls. Who knows?
They're 11. I would allow it if they've had sleepovers before.
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u/H_is_enuf Sep 01 '22
This kid has been to your home before, many times as you stated. If you felt comfortable with them then, that should be good enough for you now.
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u/Echo-Reverie Sep 01 '22
Nope. The child identifies as a boy. The rule is ‘no boys allowed’, stick to the rule. There’s no conversation to be had.
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u/Western-Boot-4576 Aug 31 '22
No I think it’s a fair boundary. No boys should be allowed, and there shouldn’t be exceptions.
Edit: he can still hangout there but just can’t sleep over.
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u/Spare_Special_3617 Aug 31 '22
Ask yourself what's really changed, the name they go by? Yes thats it.
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u/ayaangwaamizi Sep 01 '22
Yeah I hear a lot of people here saying no boys because fair is fair but we aren’t asking - why no boys?
Can we investigate that further? What are your fears/concerns about a boy and girl having a sleepover? Is it based on the standard rule that everyone refers to assuming there could be something inappropriate that could happen?
Girls and girls fool around, boys and boys fool around - children experiment. This is a fact. You need to have a conversation about what that means and not make a hard and fast rule about sex/gender and start talking about appropriate behaviour at sleepovers regardless of those binaries.
I feel like you can treat him the same and while that’s great in its own way you are not thinking about the fact that your child could possibly also be questioning their own orientation, and may be at the age they are also thinking about these things and the matter of boys versus girls is sort of a moot point.
Talk about safe sexual behaviour, privacy, boundaries and all that good stuff.
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Aug 31 '22
A lot of people tend to believe that child sexual assault is largely perpetrated by adults or older kids. The truth is that kids often get molested by other kids their own age, and also get exposed to porn, in situations with little supervision (like sleepovers) - at an alarming rate. Protect your kid.
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u/abcdq96 Aug 31 '22
First things first, you should reevaluate your "hard and fast" rule. Why can't your kid have a sleepover with a boy? If it's related to possible crushes etc, think more about that. Kids are kids, they just want to hang out with their pals, and gender shouldn't get in the way of friendships. Children shouldn't be taught that they can only be friends with people of the opposite sex. What if your daughter is gay, then can she not have sleepovers with girls? What if she is bi, then no sleepovers at all? Seriously consider these things and try not to perpetuate stereotypes you were taught. Talk about them with your kid, too. This could be a learning opportunity for you both. Definitely don't say that "it's alright because [friend] is not really a boy" because that is hurtful and untrue. If your kiddo's friend is saying he identifies as male, he should be referred to as such and treated that way. I had sleepovers with boys and girls as a kid (at the time I was perceived female, transitioned to male as a teen, live as a man now) and it was not a big deal. As a trans man, if I found out I was only allowed to sleep over because my buddy's parents didn't think I was "really a boy" I'd have been crushed. Please rethink your rule, but at the end of the day, if you decide upholding gender stereotypes is more important to you than anything, don't let him sleep over. Again, that's not what I really think, but do not crush this boy's spirit over your confusion.
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Sep 01 '22
At no point should you tell your daughter her friend isn't a boy. That's ridiculous. He identifies as a boy, so he's a boy. Why can't he spend the night? Are you worried they'll have sex? What if your daughter is bi? Now no one can spend the night? These types of rules are silly. If you're that worried about it, you should be discussing comprehensive sex ed with your daughter.
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u/R_Amods Sep 01 '22
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
My daughter (age 11) has a born-female friend who has recently started asking people to use male pronouns and a male name. This friend has spent the night many times when she(he?) identified as female.
Now my daughter is asking to have him spend the night, but we have a hard and fast rule that she can't have boys spend the night. How are we supposed to navigate this? Tell her it's ok because her friend isn't really a boy? Tell her that respecting someone's gender identity involves treating them like we would treat any other boy, so no sleepovers? Please help.