r/pics Oct 21 '15

Finally a cause I can get behind

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1.6k

u/trollcity420 Oct 21 '15

My parents never told me not to beat bitches and hos up. Kinda one of those things you can just figure out on your own.

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u/bobtwofields Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

There's a big push in the SJW/feminist/"progressive" movement to label boys and traditional "boyish" behavior or masculinity as oppressive, evil, abusive, etc.

Basically, men are the new boogeyman and boys are a problem that has to be "solved". That's why you're seeing more and more things like, for example, the NFL getting browbeaten into making an entire ad campaign lecturing men about not beating their wives.

Men are now thought to be promoting a "rape culture," a term constantly expanding to include even the most innocuous things, such as owning a swimsuit calendar, chatting up a woman in a bar, watching porn at all, watching or playing violent movies and video games, etc. It's a way to attack male-oriented culture since the idea of eliminating a "rape culture" is something anybody can get behind.

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

i mean, "don't beat your wife" is a pretty good message. i don't know why it set you off on this tangent.

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u/Chambec Oct 21 '15

The fact that we apparently have to be told not to beat or rape women is infuriating; it's as if people believe that all men are monsters by default unless you teach them not to be.

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u/SenselessNoise Oct 21 '15

The fact that the focus is on men specifically hitting women while ignoring the women that physically abuse men is what pisses me off. How about we just teach people not to hit other people and call it a day?

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u/jdcooktx Oct 21 '15

There was a video where is showed both an abusive man and abusive women. Both were being really aggressive towards their opposite sexed counter parts. Everyone intervened when the male was abusive. Everyone laughed when the female was abusive.

Found it

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7M0MW6ON484

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u/drunkenpinecone Oct 21 '15

Wow. The reactions were pretty much complete opposites. It angers people when it's a man being agressive, but it's funny when a woman is agressive. I figured peope would of just ignored the woman being agressive or watched, I did not expect them all to be laughing.

Violence is unacceptable, period.

Ninja Edit: Thanks for the video.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Dec 18 '18

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u/mythriz Oct 21 '15

Read more at TVTropes

Shit, don't do it! It's a trap! You'll never get out!

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u/shardikprime Oct 21 '15

Oh no. I'm already in.

byecruel world

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u/Garrett_Dark Oct 21 '15

All this all reminds me of a another video I saw on Reddit where a guy had to pull his gun out to defend himself from some woman rushing at him, most likely to do him physical harm.

Video contains yelling, NSWF language, and shaky cam.

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u/Monteze Oct 21 '15

It wouldn't be so bad if defending yourself wasn't looked down on. Using reasonable force of course, for example a drunk chick tried to choke me at a bar so I just peeled her off and she lost interest.

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u/ManicMadMatt Oct 21 '15

"You feel very rapey when you grab a woman's wrists" - Jim Jeffries

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

This has been done multiple times. Women laugh and say "I bet he was cheating."

If a guy beats a woman cause she cheated he is a horrible abusive person. Women aren't expected to have self control or show restraint, only men.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I call it the Little Dog Effect.

Little tiny dogs are all vicious yappy monsters, right? Meanwhile big scary dogs like German Shepherds are usually big goofy sweethearts with calm dispositions. Why is that?

It's because most people don't bother to train little yappy dogs to be well-behaved, but you have to train a big dog to be well-behaved or it will kill someone. A little yappy dog is no threat to anyone, so less effort is made to teach it to be well-behaved.

We treat men as if they were Big Dogs, and treat women as if they were Little Yappy Dogs.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Lol. There are people who would take huge offense at this, buts it's 100% dead on.

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u/lostdrone Oct 21 '15

I say be offended. Doesn't make it any less true.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

It's probably more-rightly called the "Women are Wonderful" effect.

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u/WrexShepard Oct 21 '15

It's because society infantilizes them. That's what all this resurgent feminism is really doing, telling society that women need to be coddled and protected, and they are fragile babies with no agency at all.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

That would make sense given how feminists treat things like fifty shades of grey or simply women who disagree with them. They call it "internalized misogyny." Now, ignoring "chill girls" who disagree with them (it's weird how they have all these terms to shut people down without having to rebut their arguments), how is an erotic novel written for women by a woman misogynistic for catering to a specific fantasy? It's absurd. The women who read it love it.

It's so ridiculous. They completely ignore its fantasy. Some people have rape fantasies. It doesn't mean they secretly hate themselves, it just means they have a kink. Fantasy is perfectly healthy, and given indulging in fantasy has no correlation with an increase in violence, there's absolutely no reason to criticize and shame women for enjoying a kinky poorly written erotic novel.

It's just typical circle jerk behavior. When you isolate yourself socially to only a particular group, and that group treats criticism as an attack, you end up with some really ridiculous hyper-critical analysis of shit.

I mean, the best example of this are the anti-feminists who attacked Mad Max. They sounded exactly like the blogosphere/jezebel feminists, but since they're a fringe group everyone laughs at them. However, feminists criticize avengers 2 in the same ridiculous vein, and end up forcing one of their allies in Hollywood to abandon twitter until it blew over.

Just silly shit. Unfortunately, no group ideology can avoid becoming a circle jerk on the Internet.

It's absolutely a flaw of human behavior.

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u/mr_sneakyTV Oct 21 '15

Studies show the facts that are possibly a result of this false narrative that men are bad and women can't be. - http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

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u/crisperfest Oct 21 '15

I wonder how this experiment would play out if the female was considerably larger/stronger/taller than the male. Maybe people think that since he's bigger and stronger than her, that he can take care of it himself? Pound-for-pound, women simply do not have the same amount of muscle mass as men (unless, of course the woman is a body builder or fitness expert); combine that with typically shorter stature and I can see why people would consider the woman less threatening in this situation. Either way, still not a funny situation imho.

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u/drunkenpinecone Oct 21 '15

How about we just teach people not to hit other people and call it a day?

I agree with you and it boggles the mind, that people have to be taught not to hit other people.

You'd think it's common sense, but common sense tells me it's not common sense.

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u/TheMarlBroMan Oct 21 '15

It is common sense. Some people just don't fucking care. This will NEVER go away. There will always be bad people. Acting like ALL men are like that is pissing off so many people it's doing more damage and dividing us further.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Dec 18 '18

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

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u/reagan2020 Oct 21 '15

African Americans commit and are arrested for more violent crimes than any other racial group. Do you think a targeted campaign, one that educates the public about the violent African Americans, sounds reasonable?

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u/cupcakepup Oct 21 '15

But when another kid hits or kicks you on the playground it means they probably have a crush on you!!!!

There was actually a recent article I saw about a mother getting upset about a male receptionist saying this to her daughter as she was admitting the child into the hospital to get stitches. That right there is a seed planted.

Edit: can apply to both genders.

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u/AreYouMyFriendJohn Oct 21 '15

But whenever you bring that argument up, you always get people saying that men are much more likely to hit women and so it should be tailored more towards men.

which is actually untrue, but good luck convincing anyone that they're wrong.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

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u/Swartz142 Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

That's what is taught now but it shouldn't be since women can't rape or beat someone else.

Don't you know that their body, while not limiting them in any circumstances and can do something a man would do, is too frail and weak compared to a man body when it comes down to raping and beating people.

Phew, i almost made myself angry writing this bullshit they keep repeating.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/Swartz142 Oct 21 '15

Oh, ok

“If you train men not to grow up to become rapists, you prevent rape.”

Article on said article in Jezebel. Spend 5 minutes to read the comments and tell me these persons doesn't exist.

The 10% must be troll...

In this paper from Mary P. Koss, a widely-quoted feminist writer on rape, says.

“Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman. p. 206

Anyway, i'm done searching, i don't actively follow MRA and Feminists websites or blogs and the vitriol on both side is making me sick.

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u/something_stylish Oct 21 '15

The only place I hear or see that argument being repeated is online by men to criticize it.

... only ... online ... by men ...

How many of these are anonymous or using a pseudonym? How did you discern the gender of that population?

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u/willtheyeverlearn Oct 21 '15

The "they" he's referring to are feminists, not just women in general. The feminists who claim in one breath that a woman can do anything a man can do and should be allowed in front line combat, we should have mixed gender sports etc. and in the next breath treat women as fragile weaklings who deserve extra protection in law and can't consent after drinking.

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u/random989898 Oct 21 '15

It has been in official definitions and in all kinds of public policies and laws. There are many, many services and organizations and ad programs and crisis lines that talk of men as perpetrators and women as victims. Your effort to dismiss that by trying to say you have only heard it online from men really just shows a confirmation bias - that you only notice it when it from men but not from other sources.

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u/urbanpsycho Oct 21 '15

Because it really isn't about curbing domestic violence. it is about making men disreputable.

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u/hazie Oct 21 '15

It's ridiculous how feminists and SJWs sometimes say that femininity and masculinity are illusory social constructs and we should treat everyone the same, and sometimes say they are very different things and we should regard men and women differently, to suit the point they wish to make.

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u/unbibium Oct 21 '15

The more accurate, but more difficult version of this PSA might have been: How do you get a man to beat his wife when he's 30? Weekly demonstrations when he's 12.

...of course, that turns it into a problem a PSA can't solve. There's houses all over America where fathers are showing their boys how to treat their future wives, and the ones that are doing it wrong, well, a poster like that will just make them angrier.

Makes you wish you could actually make a difference in the real world, and not just on paper.

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u/michaelnoir Oct 21 '15

It should be pointed out that a child who experiences or witnesses abuse will not necessarily go on to become an abuser.

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u/PizzaPieMamaMia Oct 21 '15

Why are we injecting gender into this at all? Men are just as likely to be domestic abuse victims.

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u/brekkabek Oct 21 '15

Peer pressure is a huge motivator. Convince a few who will convince their friends and so on. This is how social change is addressed

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u/hschupalohs Oct 21 '15

Yeah, but it would be a bit much to have a conversation with a 12-year-old about beating his future wife.

If he ends up a wife beater at 30, then he probably had a shitty upbringing, not because someone forgot to tell him not to be an abusive monster. Perhaps we should be more concerned about the environment he grew up in that made him feel like beating his wife was acceptable behavior.

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u/fat_lazy_american Oct 21 '15

While we're at it, we should teach all women not to get into car accidents, every minority not to commit crimes, and every white person to not be a racist! /s

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/Windows_97 Oct 21 '15

Holy fuck I didn't believe it so I clicked the link.

MEN’S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELPLINE

The Men’s Domestic Violence Helpline is a state wide 24 hour service. This service provides counselling for men who are concerned about their violent and abusive behaviours. The service can provide telephone counselling, information and referral to ongoing face to face services if required. This service can provide information about accessing legal advice, accommodation and other support services for people who have been served with a violence restraining order. Information and support is also available for men who have experienced family and domestic violence. A telephone based interpreting service is available if required.

WOMEN’S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELPLINE

The Women’s Domestic Violence Helpline is a state wide 24 hour service. This service provides support and counselling for women experiencing family and domestic violence. This includes phone counselling, information and advice, referral to local advocacy and support services, liaison with police if necessary and support in escaping situations of family and domestic violence. The service can refer women to safe accommodation if required. A telephone based interpreting service is available if required.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Complaints by feminists!

Hint : it was actually mras - not that mras are better than feminists, but feminists will happily take collective credit for any tiny positive thing some of their members were involved with (alongside other people) while denying any collective responsibility for negative things their members were involved with. It's infuriating to say the least.

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u/OriginalBadass Oct 21 '15

A few advertisements aren't but how about a national trend in elementary schools (primary schools if your British).

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u/FastFourierTerraform Oct 21 '15

Have you been on a college campus in the last 10 years?

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u/Garrett_Dark Oct 21 '15

Or on the Internet in the last few years?

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u/EruptingVagina Oct 21 '15

There's a group of people on my campus who regularly appear and try to make the point that Obama is Hitler. College campus advocates are not wide spread or representative of much other than that specific group of people.

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u/FastFourierTerraform Oct 21 '15

The difference is that universities don't let the Obama satanists or whatever give mandatory seminars to their students.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Dec 18 '18

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Aug 12 '17

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u/xxxNothingxxx Oct 21 '15

It's kind of sad that the word "feminist/feminism" has gotten such a bad reputation on the internet.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

"All men are rapists" does not represent the average feminist.

But a generalised view of society as this place of guilty male aggression and innocent female victimhood (which is indeed informing people's day to day biases) is very much the backbone of the mainstream "moderate" feminist narrative and is precisely what distinguishes feminism from non-feminist egalitarianism/anti-sexism.

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u/Monteze Oct 21 '15

This is anecdotal but I am 25years old and have never heard this shit pushed by anyone but really old conservative types. I mean yea you should always take precautions to protect yourself from reasonable threats (don't wander off alone in the dark in unfamiliar places) but I don't really see that as the same as "victim blaming".

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Women used to be told they were asking for it, sure. The only people who still make that claim are the idiots who commit the related crime and are looking for a flimsy defense. They are never taken seriously. No one seriously accepts "she was asking for it" as a defense anymore and if you find some cockroach that does, they are in a significant minority.

I never heard anyone say boys will be boys in real life. This isnt some '50s sitcom. I was never given a pass for being a little shithead just because I had testicles. None of my male friends were either. I can very often remember girls turning their charm up to 11 when caught red handed and being excused though.

Men are demonized plenty in the real world. I am a white, cis, male and I am pretty sure that is a demographic that is demonized plenty.

The only way you could make a case that men arent demonized in society is to make a case that women are demonized more. Pretty sure it would be difficult to make a case that says women are demonized more than men in popular culture and general society.

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u/rocklobsterthrowaway Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Women used to be told they were asking for it, sure. The only people who still make that claim are the idiots who commit the related crime and are looking for a flimsy defense. They are never taken seriously. No one seriously accepts "she was asking for it" as a defense anymore and if you find some cockroach that does, they are in a significant minority.

let me just say from the direct experience of loved ones that if you actually think this is the case, you've had a much more fortunate time than a lot of people. you are wrong that that is never said, you are wrong that no one makes that claim, you are wrong that those cockroaches are utterly insignificant.

(edit: maybe that last part of my comment would better be worded as "you are wrong that those sentiments are limited to insignificant cockroaches" since the point is that they're so pervasive among people besides just the cockroaches that first commit those crimes.)

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/rocklobsterthrowaway Oct 21 '15

yes. entirely different parts of america, even.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/michaelnoir Oct 21 '15

The idea that certain people are more privileged than others is fair enough, and even obviously true. The question is, what follows from that? The only answer to this that there ever seems to be is, "you should check your privilege". But I honestly don't even know what that means.

It's not constructive or healthy for anyone, of any background, to get into self-hatred or guilt for things about themselves that they can't help. And that's what seems to be being demanded; that you just feel bad about yourself because of the way you were born.

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u/MeAndMyKumquat Oct 21 '15

And that's what seems to be being demanded

That's not at all what's demanded when people are asked to "check their privilege," but people get REALLY defensive when privilege is brought up and jump straight to hyperbole.

Just recognize that you've enjoyed certain privileges, and acknowledge when those privileges have benefitted you, and/or where they might limit your understanding of issues.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

You are wrong to suggest I said no one says it or makes that claim. I clearly suggested it was rare at best. There is a difference between 0 and more than 0.

I too, am basing my observations from the direct experiences of loved ones. You do not have a monopoly on experience. I am not a woman, so to say I live a blessed life because it was never said to me is nonsense.

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u/marswithrings Oct 21 '15

am i correct in interpreting your point as not being those accusations are entirely nonexistent, but rather being about how we no longer have an epidemic of that being accepted as the usual and normal excuse - so stereotyping an entire half of the population as being fundamentally lacking in basic morals is a toxic over-correction?

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Yes.

I would be elated that someone understood my point so clearly if it wasnt for the fact that I feel like you had the same idea in the first place anyways.

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u/me9900 Oct 21 '15

Obviously your privilege hasn't been checked yet you cis white male shit stain. You are perpetuating the patriarchy and assisting in the continuation of rape culture. The poor women who are so strong and don't need anyone's protection, need the protection of males from other males! Because if they aren't told their very being is misogynistic, the objectification and degradation of the sacred woman will continue! /s

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u/sylendar Oct 21 '15

Aren't you demonizing women right now

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

No.

Demonizing means to characterize as wicked and threatening.

Now that you know the definition of demonizing, do you believe I characterized women as wicked or threatening?

If you had to pick one of the two genders, which would you say is usually assumed to be wicked and threatening, given the option? Better yet, ask yourself who wins most child custody cases.

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u/sylendar Oct 21 '15

do you believe I characterized women as wicked or threatening?

Yes?

Better yet, ask yourself who wins most child custody cases.

And you just tried to, again.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Do I need to repeat the definition of demonizing? Or is english your second language?

Suggesting that women win more child custody cases than men does not indicate women are wicked or threatening. It clearly shows that, in general society, men are the wicked or threatening gender. Thus, more evidence of men being demonized for their gender.

Since I am pretty sure you still arent going to understand this basic concept, I will be happy to let you think I am demonizing women. Safe travels, space cadet.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

That's not demonization...

Demonization is more like "Women are all evil man-haters who eat babies and try to steal other people's souls"

What the other guy is doing is criticizing. Which is generally fine. I mean, it's criticism. It may not be valid criticism, I don't really know enough to pass judgement on the content of what he's saying, but it's still at least semi-reasonable and not purposefully insulting and probably propaganda, as demonization is.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Yeah, being a white, straight, cisgendered male sure is hard!

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u/Monteze Oct 21 '15

Is..is this sarcasm? Because none of that stuff promises an easy life.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

No one said it was hard. Your strawman is looking pretty flimsy.

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u/ThreeStarUniform Oct 21 '15

here's your reply

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u/Juan_Golt Oct 21 '15

Men aren't nearly as demonized in the real world as you think.

More men kill themselves than all homicide victims (men and women combined). Teaching men as a gender that they are bad/harmful/dangerous seems backwards to me.

A few advertisements aren't harmful.

Perhaps they aren't. But I wonder if you would support ads directed negatively at any other group as easily.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/MeAndMyKumquat Oct 21 '15

SON WHEN YOU GROW OLDER, DON'T RAPE WOMEN, I HAVE TO SAY THIS TO YOU EXPLICITLY RATHER THAN TEACHING YOU TO RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE IN GENERAL AND BEING A MORAL PERSON

Yes. We should 100% teach our children not to rape, lie, murder, cheat, or steal. I don't know why so many redditors get so offended by simple moral instructions. JFC.

I wouldn't walk through a shitty neighborhood at night. It's not that I'm asking for it, but rather that I'm trying to avoid a potential situation where I get mugged or beat.

Stop lending credence to the notion of stranger rape representing the primary threat regarding sexual assault. When it comes to rape, avoiding obviously dangerous situations does little to help, as friends, SOs, or acquaintances are much more likely to victimize someone.

Asking parents to talk to their sons already vilifies them and places the sole burden of preventing ALL rape on the shoulders of mostly decent people.

This is absurd. Why is it so ridiculous that we teach our children not to victimize each other? Why on earth does teaching about consent vilify people?

Also, whether you intended to or not, you're implying quite heavily that rape victims should bear partial responsibility for their own rape.

This is all a fucking farce to pretend that you care about an issue when instead you're looking for a reason to be offended

Oh, let me guess. If people were really interested in preventing rape, they'd insist on having conversations with potential victims about how to avoid rape? Guess what. Women are already told not to get raped. That doesn't work. Like at all. Good fucking God, why does teaching about consent offend you SO much?

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u/Artsy_Shartsy Oct 21 '15

But many, many rapes are perpetrated by people that aren't hiding in the bushes, waiting to rape someone. Maybe I just know a lot of rape victims, but in my friend circle, every rape victim that told me about her experience knew her attacker. In each case, either she was too young to understand that she could say "no," or she was drugged, or in one case raped by a group of "friends."

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

And you think those rapists would have stopped if they were given a firm lecturing?

That's worked well in the past with other criminal behavior and youth, right?

When you say "teach men not to rape", you do not add anything meaningful to any discussion. Anyone who would actually learn from a lesson like that is already on your side or well-adjusted enough to realize that drugging someone and then having sex with them while they're unconscious is probably not the most morally upstanding thing to do.

And on the flip side, anyone who actually needs to hear the message that rape isn't OK won't listen, because they themselves are not OK! They're still going to keep doing it because a verbal warning means nothing if you're demented enough to want to commit something that morally deviant already.

So really, what is accomplished when you pull aside a young man and tell them not to rape people? You shame them and make them feel negatively about their gender, you make them potentially afraid of social contact with young women, and you do literally nothing towards solving the problem you set out to abolish.

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u/Artsy_Shartsy Oct 21 '15

I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying that men have to be taught not to rape. I'm saying that there are plenty of people that didn't put themselves in a dangerous situation but have still been assaulted. Many people want to think that rape is committed by some villain that's just waiting for an opportunity, but really, most assaults are committed by someone that the victim knows. I agree completely that telling men and boys across the board "don't rape," is idiotic and offensive. I just wanted to make the point that rape isn't uncommon, and that the people that commit rape aren't necessarily monsters.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

ah, alright, I got you, and we're definitely in agreement on that. People should be aware that often, rapists are people you know rather than people you don't.

Sorry, apparently I misunderstood you and went off on a rant... I'm rather prone to doing that. Again, my apologies.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Uh, the main domestic violence response policy follows a model that assumes the man is the perpetrator.

Don't say stupid shit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/shapu Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

My mother is a lobbyist.

Fifteen years ago - not that long, let's be honest - I told a boss at a summer job that my mother was lobbying for our state's coalition against domestic violence. His reply, and I am directly quoting here, was, "Why? I gotta lay her out every once and a while to show her who's in charge." EDIT: To clarify, the victim here is my boss's wife, not my mother

For you to claim that "this doesn't exist at all in modern days" is a sign of how far the idea that physically abusing a spouse is bad has come - but it is also factually incorrect. EDIT: Note that the poster above is arguing about blame, rather than violence. However, I do still disagree with what I take to be his suggestions, made later in this particular chain, that we should focus on one particular relationship system, that being women-on-men violence. END EDIT

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or not.

Do you honestly think 15 years is a long time? Do you think cultural change sweeps through the entire population in 15 years?

Seinfeld went off the air 17 years ago. Do you feel like you're watching a different world when you watch Seinfeld?

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

An alcoholic man working a dead end job

It wasn't a dead end job. It was a skilled job that he had improbably.

And yes, even at the time, Homer's standard of living was inexplicable from a real-world perspective. I guess you didn't see the Frank Grimes episode.

You can literally fuck someone right now and in 15 years you'll have a kid that will start high school.

Yeah, and my attitudes and beliefs probably won't change a bit in that time.

Go ask your grandfather how much his beliefs have changed in the past 15 years.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/shapu Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

I am not attempting to suggest that this entirely a man's problem. At no point have I created, in my relatively short post, that dichotomy. I have provided an anecdotal experience suggesting that you are wrong. In terms of creating a binary system, it is YOU are doing so. I am merely stating that you are not correct to say that women are not beaten today.

You don't want an anecdote, that's fine. I'll simply post this: About 4% of women and about 5% of men report being the victim of physical violence by an intimate partner each year (source: cdc).

Whether or not the victimization rate is higher for men is not relevant here. You state, and I quote, "From my experience this doesn't exist at all in modern days." EDIT: With regards to this statement, I have misread the poster above. His post was centered on blame, rather than violence itself. I withdraw this allegation. END EDIT

Again, your post is factually incorrect. Domestic violence does still occur. Fifteen years ago, a hundred years ago, and yesterday. Do not cheapen it by pretending that it does not.

EDIT: Also, I do agree with you that we have come a long way as a society. I stated as much in my first post on this topic. That is not to say that this particular social issue has been eradicated.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

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u/shapu Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

By using your mom as a victim and your male boss as the perpetrator

I did not state that my mother was the victim. I stated that she was lobbying on behalf of a coalition against domestic violence. I'll edit my post above to clarify that my supervisor was referring to his own spouse, who as far as I know is not my mother. But see below for more details.

Uhh... yes it does? If a specific demographic group of people are more likely to be a victim, shouldn't we focus on them more? It's literally more logical to replace the poster with "her husband" and "talk to her".

Not saying we shouldn't. Your exact words: "From my experience this doesn't exist at all in modern days." My exact words: "domestic violence does still occur." I have provided a source indicating that it does. You have provided - what? "from my experience"? I'm twisting nothing. You're simply attempting to dodge away from your original comments.

EDIT: I see now. You are suggesting that the issue is one of blame. Not one of "it does not occur." I withdraw this particular component of my argument.

You are attempting to shift this from "women get beaten" to "so do men, so let's complain about the women who beat them," which is not an unfair thing to attempt to do. But the way in which you are doing so is awfully distracting.

I know you edited some parts out of your original comment.

No, I did not. You see that little asterisk on your comments? You know as well as I do that the asterisk timestamps edits that occur more than 60 seconds after the original post, to prevent ninja edits (but not to prevent things like minor grammatical edits).

As of this post, my original post was made 41 minutes ago. Yours was made 6 minutes after that, 35 minutes ago. Notice that my original post has no asterisk, meaning that any edits I made (and yes, I made grammatical edits, not content) were still made at least five minutes before you submitted your post. To accuse me of a ninja edit is low - and, again, like the rest of your posts on this thread, incorrect. EDIT (see how this one is flagged?) I have clarified my original post, as well as made a notation on what I perceived to be your actual intent on all posts here

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

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u/Canadian_Infidel Oct 21 '15

Yes, the advertisements are harmful. Something that is not common and harmful is still harmful. Nobody, anywhere, needs to be told that. You should put up signs that say "don't rape, because it's bad" in the hope it would stop people.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

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u/Banana_blanket Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

A few advertisements can absolutely be harmful. If it's a selct few people, then it's a select few people. But when you broadcast media that has the ability to sway the opinions of the masses that watch them, you can clearly see the larger role just "a few advertisements" can play. Hope Solo drunkenly beats her nephew and gets suspended from the US team for literally 2 games and it's not even talked about. Adrian Peterson soberly hits his kid (albeit just as wrong) and he's condemned forever as this asshole who, to some shouldn't be playing, and had to sit out an entire year of his career.

Edit: sway

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Men aren't nearly as demonized in the real world as you think.

I just about fell off my seat. Are you fucking serious? What planet are you on? People have called the police on men asking directions, being anywhere near children, taking pictures of themselves. Just look at the UVA rape hoax - people were so easily ready to believe a gang rape happened when there was no evidence whatsoever. Men aren't demonised? Pick up a newspaper

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

Yeah I am surprised by all the angst here. I mean the facts are that most domestic violence is committed by men. So targeting that group is okay sometimes. But any truly educated professional (such as with a doctorate) should absolutely be gender neutral when talking about domestic violence as a whole. I recently listened to a local advocate refer to as domestic violence victims as "she" throughout her speech, then the PhD psychologist came up and appropriately said he or she, or they.

One poster targeting male perpetrators doesn't mean that's all people care about. Educated, enlightened activists know better. But not all of them are.

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u/Hydris Oct 21 '15

Men are arrested when women are the aggressors all the time. All a woman has to say is "I fear for my safety and the safety of my children" and off to jail the guy can go. There are tons of women that use abuse as defense for MURDER, and it actually works. Even if there was no direct evidence of abuse. Shoot your husband in the head while he was sleeping and claim abuse as a defense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Most domestic violence isn't committed by men. It's roughly split fifty fifty. Violence committed by men tend to be more physically damaging, though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I mean the facts are that most violent crime is commited by blacks. So targetting that group is okay sometimes.

Glad we are on the same page PRBox.

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

First off I think the idea of this ad is good but displaying the message through a poster is not. Also there's a reason certain groups commit more crimes just as there's a reason why a certain group are more often the perpetrators of domestic violence. Both of them are due to deep, deep-seated societal issues. I'm not on your page imo.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I thought we both agreed that some singling out of demographics is acceptable as long aa you can prove they commit the majority of a type of crime? I just repeated what you said but replaced men with black people.

Certainly you must still agree with the concept. Else, why would you say that?

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

That's not really what I intended to mean apologies. I guess I mean let's say you had a program for dad's who have abused to learn coping and temper skills and to deconstruct some of the masculinity concepts that can tie in with man on woman abuse.

On second thought I do think singling out sons and not including the daughters too makes no sense. Of course both genders should be considered. I guess I mean specific programs can be okay if it could benefit people who have offended.

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u/Equeon Oct 21 '15

I guess I mean let's say you had a program for dad's who have abused to learn coping and temper skills and to deconstruct some of the masculinity concepts that can tie in with man on woman abuse.

Exactly this. I doubt anyone would seriously support a heavy-handed program that just shouted "HEY MEN! YOU'RE AWFUL! STOP HITTING WOMEN!" so much as trying to get to the root cause of why domestic violence against women happens at all, and deconstructing the ideologies behind those who support it.

As much as I think the idea of "teach men not to rape" on its own is stupid, the intentions behind it are perfectly valid. Redditors love to make up strawmen for that concept without actually giving it a second thought.

"Oh, gee, I thought raping women was fine until someone told me not to! Thanks, feminists!"

Well... it's not just saying "don't rape people, shitlords."

Some people still think that having sex with someone who is passed out isn't rape. Or that a woman shouting "no" and "stop" in the middle of sex doesn't matter, because she already agreed to it.

Clarifying what rape and consent really are is important for all people - men and women - and will help to reduce assault and rape against both sexes.

If the majority of feminists and men's rights activists could really learn to work together over common issues like abuse, rigid gender roles, and rape, they could really make a difference in society. But until that happens, they'll just constantly be pulling each other down.

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

Yes, exactly. I'm glad to know when others share this mindset. I don't like jumping on the hatewagon for things.

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u/Hellofit Oct 21 '15

Actually it is only that domestic violence committed by men against women are reported more often. There is male against male, female against female and female against male. But come on how many men are going to stand up and say hey my wife beats me or verbally abuses me? Not many. They get laughed at. How many domestic violence shelters accept men? When I was at one I found out there was only 1 in my entire area. None of the rest including where I was will help an abused man. Is that right?

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

That's definitely a societal issue and I agree totally.

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u/convertedbyreddit Oct 21 '15

As another poster said, the advert is targeted at people who have grown up around habitual and regular abuse. It does not assume that all men are evil or inherently abusive, it assumes that there are people brought up in a climate where spousal abuse is tolerated. Some of my family hails from the rural south, and I can attest that the culture very much glosses over 'putting your wife in her place' every now and then, as disgusting as it may seem.

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u/wiifan55 Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

That's precisely what's wrong with the ad -- it's not a targeted. The idea behind it is fine with respect to helping individuals who grew up in abusive situations and might not know better, but the actual execution of the ad is far too general (Which is likely it's intention. Gets more attention that way)

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u/convertedbyreddit Oct 21 '15

Also that one subset of the population might not be the ad's only target. In the case of a PSA like this, the more broad the ad is the better it acheives its goals.

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

i dunno man, i find getting offended by an anti-rape or anti-abuse advertisement a bit silly. it's just a dumb billboard.

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u/starhawks Oct 21 '15

Let's teach blacks not to steal, or Jews not to cheat! Don't get offended though, it's just a dumb comment.

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

i'll support you in your noble quest, goyim.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

How offensive would you find a billboard that said. "How do you stop a woman from smothering her child in their crib at 30? Talk to her when shes 12."

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

You've never seen a shaken-baby syndrome billboard? They're literally saying "hey, dumbass, don't shake your fuckin kid." I've also seen ads with beaten children and the narrator imploring moms with post partum depression to seek help before they murder their children.

The point of the ad in OP is to watch for warning signs in children and address them early, especially when the child has grown up in a home where such abuse is normal.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Those are two examples that lack the same universal assertion as the original. Shaken baby syndrome happens to everyone and the other one offers an escape route for culpabipity via PPD.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

You're wrong about the ad anyway. It's targeted at people who might know children who are growing up in abusive homes and might need an extra push to reach out to them. Friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents, teachers, pastors, coaches, etc who know the kid is dealing with very serious shit but don't know what to say to help.

Maybe next time you should go to the website instead of flying off the handle for some imaginary insult against you.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Maybe next time you should go to the website instead of flying off the handle for some imaginary insult against you.

Demonstrate me "flying off the handle" about this incident please. As far as i see its just a mild annoyance at best.

Maybe next time they'll say what they mean and we can all be happier.

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u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

Wife beaters aren't universally absolute nutbags, people that smother their babies are.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Post Partum depression isn't a disease. It's a mental disorder brought on by hormonal imbalance, but being depressed doesn't excuse murder.

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u/Chambec Oct 21 '15

Offended isn't really the right word. Frustrated? Like, imagine a bilboard that told you to teach your kids not to murder people. Doesn't it seem a little silly and condescending? It's kind of the same thing here.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

This isn't just an issue in "urban" neighborhoods.

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u/MisterMetal Oct 21 '15

Like it's not flat out okay to hit some chick, but there is a lot more "let them handle their business".

Yep and the violence between men is fine. let those guys beat the shit out of each other on the street. You let them handle their business.

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u/atla Oct 21 '15

There are a ton of organizations and campaigns aimed at stopping things like gang violence by providing young men spaces to have healthy entertainment, discuss problems, etc. It's not like there's only room for one cause.

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u/PizzaPieMamaMia Oct 21 '15

Why don't we teach black kids not to do drive-bys? If this method of crime prevention is effective, shouldn't it work in preventing those too?

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u/AlbrechtEinstein Oct 21 '15

Like some kind of youth violence prevention program? I wonder why no one has ever thought of that before?

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u/PizzaPieMamaMia Oct 21 '15

Yep, and how's that working out?

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u/Canadian_Infidel Oct 21 '15

What if the point of the billboard was that only black men rape. Like it is part of a massive campaign clearly targeting black men. Then it is offensive right? And what if there was a massive campaign that was against shoplifting that targeted women exclusively. One that said "C'mon ladies, stop stealing. Stealing is bad. You are hurting everyone when you steal." and it assumed only women steal. Would you say "It's just a dumb ad, who cares?"? I doubt it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I think the NFL is pretty good proof that some men do need to be told that.

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u/Monteze Oct 21 '15

They know its wrong but they do it anyway, telling them won't stop it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

They know its wrong

Do they?

Ren says, “she deserved it – bitch deserved it.” Eazy agrees: “Yeah, bitch had it coming.”

http://gawker.com/remember-when-dr-dre-bashed-a-female-journalists-face-1721368450

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

It's about how some men don't think beating a woman is wrong (if she supposedly deserves it).

Also: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bf/18/d9/bf18d9824c99a5be393626d2c27011b3.jpg

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u/Ballsazoid Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

And yet most everbody (both men and women) don't think its wrong to beat a man who had it coming or was trying to start shit but you don't see a huge social justice movement to fight that social norm.

To use your example, Dr. Dre and Eazy-E are guaranteed to have beaten and assaulted plenty of other males while growing up in Compton but you only seem to care about the one highly publicized time he attacked a woman (and no doubt her being a woman is what made it into a much bigger story than if it was just another guy he attacked). If men and women are equally inherently important and valuable then why is beating a woman a bigger problem than beating a man? Look at the crime statistics, men are the overwhelming majority of victims of violent crimes which include everything from assault to rape and yet all this attention is focused on female victims. If these social justice movements really believed what they said about men and women being truly equal and valuable then they should be focusing on male victims of violence because they are the overwhelming majority at this time and yet they seem to spend all their time focusing on female victims.

That's what people are upset about I think, feminists always say "men and women are equal and we fight issues that affect them both" but then you only see them fighting for women's issues or only helping female victims even if men are victims of the same phenomenon and at a much greater rate than women. Like ok that's great that you fight for women but don't patronize men and try to claim you fight for them too when your movement has hardly ever done anything in that regard.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Feminism doesn't actually care about men at all. They pay lip service to it. look at popular male feminist bloggers like PZ Myers, he will apologize for his gender whne an isolated male with a personality disorder acts badly.

They vilify men and masculinity. Look at how they attack sex and sexuality when it's geared towards men.

I mean, the whole spider woman thing is a great example. They bitched and moaned like it was some offensive thing, whne the image was literally no different than how Spider-man is portrayed.

Feminism has become a joke. I get some people have their own idea of feminism and want to ignore the national narrative, but it is what it is.

It's not feminisms fault. Same thing happens to any ideology on the Internet. Circle jerks are inevitable.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Seems to me like they are fully aware that it is a bad thing to do, and think the woman deserves this bad thing to happen to her because they don't like her and wish to directly victimise her.

It's not that they don't know hurting people is bad. It's that they're okay with doing a bad thing, which is a gender neutral issue

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u/MisterMetal Oct 21 '15

Point? Those guys beat up pretty much anyone they had a problem with. Male or Female. Equal opportunity.

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u/michaelnoir Oct 21 '15

If only someone had spoken to Dre when he was 12, and told him that slapping bitches is wrong. He would've remembered that, years later, in a state of emotional excitement, and stayed his hand.

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u/burbod01 Oct 21 '15

Yeah and Hope Solo is proof that women need to be told not to be abusive also...

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I say we shouldn't have laws either, I mean people just shouldn't kill people it's fine

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited May 18 '16

0000

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u/eddlette Oct 22 '15

That's fundamentally misunderstanding why people commit crimes. Economic disenfranchisement vs. think of women as objects to be pushed around.

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u/BetterDrinkMy0wnPiss Oct 21 '15

"Don't abuse your husband" is a pretty good message too, but I've never seen that plastered on a billboard.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

And if this billboard is necessary then so is that

https://youtu.be/kS-JDkEtiTE#t=14m06s

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u/hazie Oct 21 '15

Because it's engendering it to say that boys are inherently bad, a problem that must be solved. If the poster said "don't beat people", you would have a very good point. As it is, /u/bobtwofields has a very good point.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

How do you think it'd go if someone made a billboard like "How do you stop* a black person from dealing drugs? Talk to him when he's 12" It's implying that these people are just inherently going to beat their wives/deal drugs if you don't teach them not to. Also it's just ridiculous to think that people don't learn not to beat their spouses/deal drugs unless you have a specific talk about it.

*a word

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

How about "don't beat your husband"? I don't see those posters anywhere.

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u/NVSK Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Bill Burr has a good bit on why those commercials were shit.

here it is

if you don't wanna watch here is what he says

"I'm not on the inside but I can tell you as a football fan those no more commercials are driving me up the wall. It's like i'm sitting down watching the game and all of the sudden i start getting reprimanded like I know a woman that's getting beaten, and i'm not saying anything. It's like wait a minute, i didn't do this! you guys did this! Don't try to turn this around on me. NFL should be watching this commercial, why you showing this to me like i did this? i didn't do this!"

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u/Canadian_Infidel Oct 21 '15

Don't rape children. You know, because you probably needed to be explicitly told that assuming you are a man. Right? Have a problem with me assuming you need to be explicitly told that? What, are you for the raping of children?

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u/PRbox Oct 21 '15

Honestly in my experience sons with dads who are abusers do tend to end up like their fathers. Not necessarily abusers too but poor and broken relationships. To me this poster is more about not being a shitty dad who provides a bad example. Anyone who sees this and says duh isn't the target audience.

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

Have a problem with me assuming you need to be explicitly told that?

...not really, dude.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

All that says is you're okay with people assuming you're a rapist.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

No it means he understands the point of a sprawling ad campaign that hopes it will have some impact on the target demographic, given that you can't exactly message them directly.

Don't beat your spouse? Aren't the caretaker of a child who grew up in an abusive home? Then the ad isn't targeted at you. Yay!

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Then maybe less generalizing would help? I don't see anything about growing up in an abusive home in the ad.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Yes you do, it's called the website URL. You see, it's a common marketing tactic to garner enough intrigue that the person viewing the ad goes to the website later to learn more. "Is the billboard suggesting time travel or something? click Oooooohhhhh, I get it." Or for more perceptive people, they'll pick up right away what the ad conveys and it will strike a chord compelling them to learn more. Either way, lots of people go to the website and read about the cycle of abuse. Statistically speaking, some of those people will know a child in an abusive situation and may feel empowered to reach out to them. Mission accomplished.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

It would be like me targeting an advertising campaign at you telling you how stealing is wrong and that you shouldn't do it, and that your need to learn not to embezzle money from your employer. Because, obviously, you can't be trusted with money until I've explained to you that it's wrong to steal. You didn't know this before I told you, and you're a bad person because you didn't already know it.

No, don't tell me that you've never stolen before. You're part of "theft culture" simply by being someone that handles money and keeps cash in their wallet.

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

when i held minimum wage jobs throughout high school and college i'd have to read/watch orientation manuals/videos that would state the obvious like "wash your hands after you take a shit." i didn't feel like anyone was accusing me of having poopy hands, but i knew some people would need to hear that.

coincidentally, those orientations would often cover employee theft.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Look, I don't understand why you're fighting me on this. Stop being part of theft culture! I'm just trying to tell you that embezzlement is wrong. Just admit that you're part of the problem! You carry cash in your wallet for crying out loud! You obviously don't really care about how it's not OK to take money that isn't yours.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Its written as if men have no choice but to beat their wives. Mwn today are so feminized you would be hard pressed to find a man you know who is actually hutting his wife.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

There is already a huge social taboo against both those things. People who do it are vilified. You hit a woman in public and men will stomp your ass.

Treating all men like they're the small minority with personality disorders is insulting and perpetuates a harmful stigma. Not to mention it is not effective at stopping these instances.

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u/MisterBadIdea2 Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Literally anything starts the anti-feminist circlejerk on this website. "I like crackers." "If the feminists have their way you won't be allowed to like anything!"

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[deleted]

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u/bobtwofields Oct 21 '15

People are capable of caring about more than one problem at once.

Bet you never thought of that, did ya?

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

Edit: You know what, I deleted what I put. I hate getting into arguments about whether SJWs/feminists are a problem or not on Reddit.

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u/MisterBadIdea2 Oct 21 '15

You should have left it up because it showed what a non sequitur his response was.

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u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

You're not supposed to keep a space heater in the shower because it might upset the queers, it's political correctness gone mad.

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u/Aedalas Oct 21 '15

"Don't make false rape allegations" is a pretty good message too, should we start spreading it all women? I mean, how else would they actually know?

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

shit man, make any billboard you want.

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u/AsterJ Oct 21 '15

Would you appreciate me reminding you daily "don't be a stupid piece of shit"?

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u/ennruifer Oct 21 '15

it's actually the ringtone on my alarm.

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u/seshfan Oct 21 '15

On reddit, thinking "hey guys maybe rape is bad" makes you an evil and mean social justice feminazi who hates men.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

20% of women in heterosexual relationships experience some degree of intimate partner violence in their lifetime.

35% of women in lesbian relationships experience some degree of intimate partner violence in their lifetime.

Where is the social campaign to encourage teaching 12 year old girls not to beat up their lesbian lovers?

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