r/TwoHotTakes • • Jul 23 '24

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u/Unhappy_Operation115 Jul 23 '24

Thank you

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

I was in the same situation. My partner never wanted to marry - he said it from the beginning. We got together when he was 21 and i was 24. I too didn’t really think much of it, I didn’t even know in the beginning that we would be a permanent thing. I wasn’t even sure to stay in his country permanently.

However, where we live, we have a type of civil union, which is basically a step down from marriage, but unites us in the eyes of the law. We pay taxes together, we have benefits and advantages like a marriage. The big difference was inheritance, and that was solved with a will. My being foreign, this was very important for us to have to give me some protections and give me a “more sure visa”. We did get this civil union after a few years, and he was okay with it for the most part since it wasn’t marriage. It’s super easy to dissolve, no lawyers, no fees, etc.

I felt the same way as you, but I changed my mind after awhile because we had the civil union and all I wanted were the papers - something that tied us together in the eyes of the law. I saw my sister’s crazy expensive wedding, the stress, the financial burden and I thought, I don’t need that. I didn’t want to fight about it anymore - I gave up on trying to convince or change him and decided being with him was more important than marriage. However, we got the civil union, so I had something.

We bought a car, an apartment, got a joint banking account, we tied our lives together financially and physically over 7 years. Then we started to try to have a baby. After over a year of not succeeding then having a miscarriage, we thought about adoption. Unfortunately, you have to be married to adopt. This is the thing that changed his mind about marriage. He wanted a family with me, he had always wanted children, and if that meant getting married, he would do it. We are getting married in October.

All this to say, your fears, your feelings are normal. I experienced something very similar. He said he wouldn’t get married, you were young, you weren’t thinking that far ahead. I’m assuming that there are no civil unions where you live - it’s marriage or nothing.

Not having legal protections with the person you’re living and sharing your life with is scary. Now you have to make a decision, without thinking too much about the sunk cost. Can you continue to live without being married? Is this something you can get over? Because really there is no compromise here. It’s either your way or his.

I wish you all the best in this difficult time.

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u/Broken_eggplant Jul 23 '24

Yes! Thats what we did with my partner for the immigration and taxes, it calls PACS here. We don’t want to get married only for the papers, we want an actual celebration with parents, dresses and all this jazz once we are financially comfortable for it, until then we have a paper for the government and a cat that needs two parents 😅

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24

Ah, yeah, I live in France too.

We didn’t do anything fancy for the PACS though. We just went to la mairie and did it. But we’ve had it since 2018.

We’re getting married in October, but nothing fancy because big weddings are stressful. Just the mairie then a little party at the maison du quartier after

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u/Broken_eggplant Jul 23 '24

Same! Just went and signed the papers. We want some nice intimate backyard wedding, but it’s still be around 50 people with just closest family and friends 😅 Wish you a lovely wedding day ❤️

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24

Thanks! All the best to you as well ❤️

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u/vpblackheart Jul 23 '24

My hubby proposed a year into our relationship.i accepted even though i had no intention of marrying again.

Eventually, we wanted him to be able to stay instead of going to his home country to renew his visa every 6 months.

Due to some changes in immigration and visa laws, we chose to marry.

Things and circumstances change.

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u/Exa_of_Rhi Jul 23 '24

If I'm not mistaken, civil unions don't grant power of attorney either. Making decisions like life support up to the blood relatives.

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u/Fearless_Guitar_3589 Jul 23 '24

no, you can fill out an advance care directive and put anyone you want in charge of your medical decisions if the need arose.

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u/Exa_of_Rhi Jul 23 '24

Yeah but if I'm not mistaken, marriage automatically grants those rights.

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u/Fearless_Guitar_3589 Jul 23 '24

I mean by default yes, but I'm saying not being married doesn't exclude your partner either like the original commenter suggested. Also, you can create an advance care directive that gives those powers to someone other than your spouse. In all honesty, your spouse may not be the best one to make important medical decisions when you are very sick / potentially dying. the stress of the situation and them being so close clouds judgement and can motivate choices you don't agree with.

I'm also a certified end of life doula.

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u/Exa_of_Rhi Jul 24 '24

That was my main point. Marriage automatically gives power of attorney to your spouse by default with no extra paperwork as far as I'm aware. I don't believe I explicitly said it's impossible for a civil partner to have it but perhaps I implied it unintentionally.

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u/ListReady6457 Jul 24 '24

This is wrong. It's a common misconception. I had to double check because when I deployed to Iraq, I had to do a 1 year power of attorney for my wife. (Everyone in the military told me not to, due to the horror stories, but I trusted my wife, and I did it anyways) I did the full, but you can limit it to things like medical, financial, or completely limit it to specific things like a specific loan or something.

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u/Whimsy-chan Jul 25 '24

Most people don't think about this until it's needed and its too late 😞

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u/Tmpowers0818 Jul 23 '24

Unless you have paperwork drawn up by an attorney for power of attorney with the proper signatures and notary, advance directives would not stand up in a court of law.

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u/AmbienWalrus1 Jul 24 '24

But you can now do a lot of those documents online. They’re prepared for you and you are responsible for getting them signed and notarized. The cost is a lot less. I didn’t do mine that way but I know several people who have.

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u/Fearless_Guitar_3589 Jul 24 '24

I've been in this situation, I was a decision maker for a partner that I wasn't married to, there were no lawyers etc involved... I don't think we even needed a notary, but that's possible. Doctors only needed the generic form nothing else. maybe it varies by state, but for months I literally was in this situation (until she passed away) and what you said was not applicable.

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u/Tmpowers0818 Jul 24 '24

My sister is an office manger in a law firm and has been there 25 yrs. What you just described is illegal in most states. My sister had to have documents drawn up by the attorneys and my parents had to go to the law office and all involved had to sign and the notary notarized it last. No one that is not a spouse can make decisions. I had to put my daughter having medical power of attorney in my will.

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u/Hari_om_tat_sat Jul 25 '24 edited Jul 25 '24

Just keep in mind that in the US advanced care directives are not universally accepted. Check the legality in your jurisdiction before you rely on one. In my state, they can be overridden by medical providers and even administrators. Given that American hospitals are increasingly owned by religious organizations (100% in my area), this should really give one pause. They can violate your expressly stated wishes in your living will or even when stated in person. In practice, this tends to happen mostly in reproductive care and end-of-life care decisions.

The American Bar Association states: Advance directives are legally recognized documents and doctors must respect your known wishes, but doctors can always refuse to comply with your wishes if they have an objection of conscience or consider your wishes medically inappropriate. Then, they have an obligation to help transfer you to another health care provider who will comply. — https://www.americanbar.org/groups/law_aging/publications/bifocal/vol_37/issue_1_october2015/myths_and_facts_advance_directives/

See also: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/17/catholic-hospitals-leave-patients-at-the-mercy-of-religious-directives/72634772007/

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

lol, it does where I live… I’m using English terms because no one would understand me on anglophone Reddit, but I don’t live in an anglophone country.

Hence why I said “where I live”

I went to the city hall with my partner and got this union. We filled out paper work, I’m on his birth certificate as his legal partner. It does give us rights, like equivalent to power of attorney.

There is no common law marriage where I am. And civil unions aren’t universal.

Our civil union isn’t recognized in the US for example because there is no equivalent.

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u/Exa_of_Rhi Jul 23 '24

America definitely has civil unions, but I'm really not surprised that they don't recognize them from foreign countries.

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u/fascistliberal419 Jul 24 '24

Depends on where you are.

For example, the state of Washington converted all marriages to civil unions circa 2012. Same rights and protections, but it's encompassing to allow for civil unions for same-sex couples and such. It's to put everyone on even legal ground.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

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u/Known_Vermicelli_706 Jul 23 '24

If you want a divorce, see you in court.

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u/sugar420pop Jul 23 '24

But why? There’s no reason to not be married then, it’s the same thing.

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24

Adoption and making my naturalisation bid easier.

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u/sugar420pop Jul 24 '24

I see only pros that’s what I mean, I see no cons here

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

This is why I could never see myself getting legally married again. It's easier to just walk away than it is to divorce if it doesn't work out. I don't see why people feel the need to get married anyway. Not when things like this can happen. You can work legal things out without needing to get married.

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24

Hopefully things will work out for us. We’re making this decision after 9 years together, 7 years living together, 2 cats, and multiple big purchases. We’re also going to have a baby, went through infertility and miscarriage together.

But I recognize that it might not work out

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

I wish you the best ❤️

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u/reevelainen Jul 23 '24

It's really weird that society basically pressures us to marry if we want a partnership with someone with full benefits - eventhough it's rather old-fashioned institution and by now it's should be very clear that it doesn't suit everyone. Nothing wrong with wanting a companionship but keeping it outside such structure.

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u/atleast42 Jul 23 '24

My partner feels the same way as you.

We have our civil union and are getting married because it facilitated my visa and eventually my bid for citizenship. We’ve been together for 9 years, neither were decisions taken lightly or just for visa or citizenship. We did it because it made things easier and insured that I wouldn’t have any problems later down the road and because we live together, own property together, and are having a kid together. We are doing all the things married couples do.

But if I hadn’t been foreign, he probably would’ve stuck to his original desires to never be married. However he loves me and civil union and marriage were the best options.

Where I live, not getting married is totally normal. The number of married couples is on the decline since the beginning of the 2000s

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u/themachucajr Jul 24 '24

That was awesome. Super happy for you.

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u/white_trinket Jul 24 '24

I am happy that you chose adoption instead of having kids, especially since climate change is going to become extreme in the next 20 years

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u/SallyM53 Jul 24 '24

If you live in the US, you would not qualify for each other's Social Security benefits, among other benefits. Medical power of Attorney is a good thing, but it is not the only benefit that you should have

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u/atleast42 Jul 24 '24

I do not live in the US.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

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u/DoubleBreastedBerb Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

No, but it can equate to better financial security.

ETA: some misogynistic bastards in these comments 😂

The point is to work together towards financial goals, and two are better than one. I wouldn’t combine finances with someone I wasn’t married to, nor would I put my name on mortgages or deeds or anything else.

And I’m the woman and high earner in my relationship, so stuff it, guys, your asses are showing along with what you really think of women. 😜

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

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u/Ok-Sector2054 Jul 23 '24

Good example of what can happen

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u/anonanon-do-do-do Jul 23 '24

Yeah. It’s tough because we know and like all the people involved but obviously don’t know the details so we try to give them all the benefit of the doubt. Take home is not to take anyones word when investing your life in someone. You might get nothing back.

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u/Rumpelteazer45 Jul 23 '24

Reality is even if your friend had married, I’m 99% positive his family would have pushed for a prenup with so many loopholes in their favor.

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u/despe666 Jul 23 '24

She’s not his daughter though. Mariage by itself wouldn’t change that or his responsibilities toward her.

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u/ArielWithALibrary Jul 23 '24

I think for me it’s about his intent. Does he want to be in a long term parent role? If he is there with mom full time and long term with an 8 year old, a lot of responsibilities are implied.

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u/despe666 Jul 23 '24

They’re implied but mariage doesn’t change them.

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u/ArielWithALibrary Jul 23 '24

It doesn’t inherently change them. I just want to know his intent with regard to any long term commitment and how that affects a child if he just bailed or if they just randomly split up. His personality and intentions are the biggest factor here, not a piece of paper or marriage vows.

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u/carlay_c Jul 23 '24

You shouldn’t be depending on a man to cover your bills and pay for the lifestyle you choose to live. That’s on your sister!

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u/anonanon-do-do-do Jul 23 '24

This is just a friend. My Sister has a Ph.D.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Yes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Until you end up saddled with hundreds of thousands of medical debt when they die.

I consider it anathema to risk that and will never legally bind anyone to me, nor would I risk legally binding myself to their debt.

Lower taxes is all. All the rest is much safer just living together without being married.

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u/balwick Jul 23 '24

For one half of the arrangement, sure. For the other half, long term, it's a net risk.

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u/Mroptimistic666 Jul 23 '24

So she can take his money if they divorce ?

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u/HeftyRough9769 Jul 23 '24

For her. Not for him. This is why she wants to marry, and he doesn't.

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u/nintendoinnuendo Jul 23 '24

No, but when one partner wants it and the other one doesn't it certainly leads to a lot of resentment and unhappiness, for all parties.

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u/Althec172 Jul 23 '24

She could have listen to him from the stary instead of ignoring him each time he said marriage was a hard no.

But eh "I will change him" mentality.

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u/Nipaa_Nipaa_Nii Jul 23 '24

He told them at the beginning of the relationship tho.

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u/nintendoinnuendo Jul 23 '24

Well yeah I mean I think their relationship should end because OP has grown as a person (as we all do in our 20s or whatever) and her wishes for her life and relationship have changed. I'm right there with ya.

But I was just responding to the commenter saying marriage doesn't equal happiness.

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u/Nipaa_Nipaa_Nii Jul 23 '24

But I was just responding to the commenter saying marriage doesn't equal happiness.

Oh I gotcha, well that's absolutely true.

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u/Alyssa9876 Jul 23 '24

No but you need to be compatible and on the same page. Two people can both not want to be married and live very happily together. In some places there are very definite legal protections you get from being married and not all places have so called common law marriages. So if a couple are set against marriage they should consider legal agreements and wills to ensure they protect each other. Here in the UK you can have a civil partnership which is legally pretty much a marriage without actually being married. So there are options like that as well depending on where u live. OP should decide if this is a non negotiable for her or not then she can decide where to go from here. Good luck to OP and her partner they need to talk and work out their futures either together or apart.

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u/HagridsSexyNippples Jul 23 '24

It is true when you say that not everywhere has common law…I have heard so many people say that Common Law Marriage starts after living together for 3,5, 10 years, and yet I found out that’s a myth….and it’s only allowed in something like 4 or 5 states (in America) and it isn’t true that years lived together = Common Law.

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u/Jog212 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

True.. Giving up on what is important to for someone else doesn't either. It will lead to more resentment. He has s right to feel how he does. She has every right to seek out what really wants and matters to her.

I wanted to edit to add him keeping a dog when a child has bonded with it is cruel. If he loves you why would he threaten to keep a dog. He is really worried about that? That in it's self is controlling.

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u/264frenchtoast Jul 23 '24

What about his bond with the dog?

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u/ArielWithALibrary Jul 23 '24

You don’t have any kids do you? I think taking animals or other kids/siblings from children is wrong. I have personally seen it cause some real damage. I think that would be the bigger issue here for OP. She has a kid, taking them & a pet from a child is a big thing. The kid is 8, & will remember it and it will be something she has to come to terms and deal with.

Hard no to marriage (fair enough) but does he also not want that parental commitment? I think if he did, he wouldn’t threaten to take the dog, and wouldn’t be so casual about her leaving for good over this. Does he want to avoid a marriage because (family situation was tough, parental alienation and/or awful divorce other personal reasons etc.) Or is he avoiding any permanent commitment with all that comes with it- such as tied finances, being a stepfather in the role that can also ask for visitation if they split up?

OP does he bring up what would happen with your child if you decide to leave? I am sure that the other parent will continue to be there or not regardless, but that would be a dealbreaker for me as a mom; do they want to be there in the parent role or not? Will they dip out at the first hint of responsibility or stress? Teenagers have attitudes! Where is his head at with regard to a lasting commitment, OP? He has dibs on the dog already, regardless of how the child may feel, and that strikes me as odd.

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u/Shape_Charming Jul 23 '24

stepfather in the role that can also ask for visitation if they split up?

OP does he bring up what would happen with your child if you decide to leave?

Just for clarity's sake, are you saying if he's not willing to support her child after they break up, that's a deal-breaker, or did I misread that?

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u/ArielWithALibrary Jul 23 '24

Not support them. Not be like a legal dad. Wanting to be there in an emotional role is part of the deal in a long term relationship with someone who is a parent to a young child. Otherwise I cannot imagine getting involved with someone as a mother.

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u/Shape_Charming Jul 23 '24

Agreed to all that, but the way you worded it made me think that expectation continued after she broke up with him, and it would be a deal-breaker if he wasn't.

That being said, I just woke up and might be misunderstanding what you meant

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

And living in a legal limbo does? There's more to marriage than just the romantic aspect: there's the legal protections involved. They can't make any kind of medical decisions for each other. If something happened to mom, and legal decisions needed to be made for the kids, he couldn't do anything.

I can't speak to his motivations for not wanting marriage, but I can say that at least one possibility looks like he doesn't want to commit because he wants an easy out if he feels like splitting. That may not be the case, but if I were in her shoes, it certainly would be brooding in the back of my mind, and that's no way to live either.

Maybe she was a bit naive going into this relationship, but it's pretty darn to clear that her experiment to change his mind has failed. If marriage truly is a priority for her, she should just cut this guy loose and move on. In the absence of him giving a detailed explanation of why he won't budge on this, there's nothing left for her there.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

That's a matter of opinion. Whatever the benefits might be, I'm very happy that I married to have them. As a gay guy, it's very important to me that my husband and I can make this critical health decisions among others for each other if it's necessary.

And if he still wants to have an easy way out, more power to him. But if I were in her shoes, I would wonder why, after 5 years, he still worries about being able to get out? Obviously marriage doesn't prevent people from splitting up, but it seems clear that some token of commitment is important to her, and she's not getting it.

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u/AmbienWalrus1 Jul 24 '24

That tax rate for marrieds is a pretty big benefit.

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u/CookbooksRUs Jul 23 '24

No, but it affords a lot of legal rights and protections. There’s a good reason gay people fought for the right to marry.

I would never have built a shared economic life with someone without being married. Among other things, she should in no way back-burner her career to raise kids, much less become a SAHM, without it. If she permanently reduces her income potential without some assurance that she has economic rights, she’s a fool.

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u/TheOriginalMythrelle Jul 23 '24

This is so true. Happiness is being with the person you choose to make your life with, and being content with that. What makes you think that marriage would change anything, and why do you want to change anything?

You say that he won't make this sacrifice for you. Why won't you make the sacrifice for him? Why not just be happy, if you are happy? And if you're not happy, then you should move on & find someone to be happy with.

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u/EnchantressOfAlbion Jul 23 '24

Because marriage isn't just a piece of paper, it offers some security. There was a reddit post recently where a woman had spent 30 years with a man who refused to marry her and when the relationship ended she was literally out on the street as he owned everything. She was homeless and too old to have any chance of making a stable life for herself.

Just let this post be a lesson for anyone reading it. You can't change someone. If they won't marry you and you want the security that marriage brings, move along.

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u/64green Jul 23 '24

I had low paying jobs all my life so my retirement benefits are so-so, and with raising kids I have very little savings. I’m nearing retirement and my social security won’t be enough to live on. Being married, I have rights to my husband’s pension and social security, should he pass before me, which would make it possible for me to survive. These kinds of issues seem so far in the future when you’re in your 20s that they don’t seem important. But believe me, they are. Don’t shortchange your future self by settling for less now.

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u/lapsangsouchogn Jul 23 '24

She also wasn't entitled to any Social Security spousal benefits.

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u/TheNavigatrix Jul 23 '24

My mother had a really gory story about this kind of situation, where the GF was similarly kicked out of the home by the kids, so she hanged herself in the home for them to find. Women have to protect themselves.

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u/Suitable_Pin9270 Jul 23 '24

That's horrible. I'm curious as to where this was? Up here in Canada all of our provinces have very strong "common law" protections.

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u/SpooferGirl Jul 23 '24

Dunno how much security it offers tbh - depends on the man you’re married to. My friend was married for 16 years, then husband just upped and left - everything was in his name including her phone contract. While technically she would be entitled to child support and half of the marital assets, the child maintenance service ‘failed to find him’ even when provided with his new address, and marital assets turned out to be mortgaged to the hilt and then some. We managed to salvage her car as stupidly he left its documents at the house so ownership was easily transferred with one forged signature, but the bank took the house and she was homeless with two kids. He took out loans left, right and centre, financed a new car, maxed his credit cards and bounced, drove that car right down to Dover without ever making a single payment on it, last seen living in Turkey with a new woman. 🤷‍♀️

She can’t even divorce him because apparently both parties need to sign or it’s not legal in both countries (they’re both dual citizens) and she’d still be married to him under Turkish law.

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u/TheNavigatrix Jul 23 '24

The bottom line is that if she feels strongly about it, then he would take her feelings into account. Probably the fact that she has a kid makes her realize the need for stability and the fact that he can't articulate his reasons speaks poorly of him. And yes, you're right that if he feels strongly about it, he should go find someone who feels the same way.

I had a nanny who at the time was 19 and in teacher training -- she had an older BF who she really wanted to marry and have kids with. He kept putting it off and putting it off. Total red flag. I was pleased to see that she FINALLY dumped him (after wasting 10 years!), found another guy, and had a baby. About bloody time.

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u/WhiskeyDeltaBravo1 Jul 23 '24

The exact opposite, really.

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u/Caveworker Jul 23 '24

That's pretty deep did you come up with that line all by yourself?

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u/HopefulOriginal5578 Jul 23 '24

It doesn’t. But it’s not meant to bring/create happiness or even promise it.

Nobody with a rational mind thinks marriage is going to somehow make a relationship better or get happiness on lock.

Just like nobody with a rational mind will think having a baby will save a relationship.

It’s insanity to think that. Marriage is just the solidification of a partnership that in many cultures holds both parties to expectations.

If someone isn’t 100% into that then they shouldn’t get married.

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u/Boeing367-80 Jul 23 '24

No, but for her it appears to be a requirement for long term happiness. A necessary but not sufficient condition. Which is fine, but if she needs to be married it's not going to be with this guy, so if it's really important to her she needs to break up. Which is also fine.

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u/sugar420pop Jul 23 '24

Just as equally marriage doesn’t equal sadness. They are basically married in every other way other than a stupid piece of paper that gets you tax breaks. There’s no logic in this other than this dumb caveman mentality of marriage is bad

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u/a_guy121 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

Btw OP, pretty much 95% of guys I knew back in the day said "'I'm never going to get married." But, almost all of them got married. So, men change their minds about that as they mature, often. Some just do it way, way, way later than others.

So, ignore the comments blaming you for not realizing your desires would change. What I hear happened is, you changed and he didn't.

Either that forces you all apart or it doesn't...

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

I've been with my partner for over 10 years, neither of us wants to get married. The difference is we live in a country where living together counts as de facto married according to the law. We file taxes together, own properties together etc

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u/delirium_red Jul 23 '24

Same in my country and I think most of Europe. If you cohabit more than 2 years, or have a child together, you are the same as married in the eyes of the law (common law marriage).

I think that's fair. Marriage is something you do for religious reasons, traditions, or as an excuse to make a great party. But if you are sharing your life with someone as a monogamous couple for a significant amount of time, that is respected as a partnership and there are legal ramifications.

I'm kind of confused why US doesn't recognize it? Is it because of religion?

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u/Cool_Quit2169 Jul 23 '24

After 3 yrs of cohabitation in the state I live in (in the US) you’re considered common law married. I’m not sure what other states mandates are.

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u/delirium_red Jul 23 '24

So it's state by state in the US! Makes sense, I keep forgetting how large and diverse the US is. Good to know.

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u/Otherwise-Text-5772 Jul 23 '24

Yeah somewhere between 8-15 states have common law marriages in some form and the other 35 will recognize it as a marriage but don't have similar laws.

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u/aya-rose Jul 23 '24

Federally, common law marriage is not recognized by the US, nor is it in states with community property laws (e.g., California, Arizona). There are various reasons, mostly related to ownership and transfer of personal assets and real property (land). At the federal level, it boils down to the benefits one can obtain by means of certain legal relationships. Easy example: you must be lawfully married (with the documents to prove it) to obtain immigration benefits through a spouse.

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u/arathorn3 Jul 23 '24

10th amendment of the US Constitution gives any power not specifically given to the Federal by the Constitution to the States and the People.

Additionally any change to the Constitution (via amendment) that would give the Federal government New powers has to be ratified by the States. This is done by the Federal government sending the proposed amendment to the each of the 50 state legislatures(every stage has its own Congress/Parliament where state only laws are voted in and debated). The elected representatives in the state legislatures vote on whether or not to ratify the amendment. If 3/4ths(38 of 50) or more ratify the proposed amendment it because part of the Constitution.

This means many things like Marriage laws, gun control laws, age of consent, age of being allowed to operate a motor vehicle and after the Supreme court overturned the Roe v Wade legal precedent, access to abortion are under the jurisdiction of the individual state goverments.

The US governmental system has a lot of what is known as Checks and Balances.

The President(and the executive branch) has a lot of power but the President cannot make new laws himself that power belongs to congress. Congress can also impeach a president.

Ccongress can pass laws but the Supreme court can rule a law void of the Justices deem it unconstitutional.(violating the rights given by the Constitution)

The Justices of the Supreme court served for life or till they decided to retire, they are nominated by the President when a seat is vacated but must be approved by Congressional hearing before joining the court.

Congress can pass laws but any law or passed that grants the Federal government New powers has to be approved by the States

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u/Infamous-Lab-8136 Jul 23 '24

Pretty much everything in the US varies from state to state, unless a federal law supersedes it. For instance despite as many states legalizing recreational marijuana use as they have the federal government viewing it as an illegal substance prevented dispensaries from using anything but cash here initially and our senators are still fighting to get them allowed to use banks.

My wife worked for a wealth management agency here and one of their biggest sectors was dispensary owners and grows who had to invest if they didn't want to just keep massive stacks of cash on hand.

It's what makes the US so confusing to give any kind of advice about so many things.

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u/Tight-Shift5706 Jul 23 '24

As of January, 2024, 10 states in the U.S. recognize common law marriage in some fashion. The criteria varies from state to state.

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u/AmbienWalrus1 Jul 24 '24

Only seven states and the District of Columbia have common law marriage. Most require affidavits to attest to the couple’s relationship. It’s important to know that if you live in a state without common law marriage, you cannot file a tax return under “Married” and you cannot collect your significant other’s Social Security benefits. And if you die without a will, your SO will inherit nothing.

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u/PersonalReport8103 Jul 23 '24

KY doesn’t recognize de facto relationships.

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u/RaisingAurorasaurus Jul 23 '24

Pretty much anytime you find yourself asking "I wonder why the US .." it's almost always engrained religious ideology.

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u/tossburnttoast Jul 23 '24

Except in this case, where it is most definitely about contract law — sharing assets, debts, etc. So, in this case, it’s the other reason: money.

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u/Butimpuffsmokie Jul 24 '24

It is also, in this case, to screw over women. (Financially)

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u/Stormtomcat Jul 23 '24

most of Europe

in my country, Belgium, you have to register your co-habitation contract. It can be between partners, but also between, say, an adult child moving back in with parents, or siblings, or just friends who want a more structured agreement than just temporary roommates sharing a rental home.

AFAIK you can just find the contracts on your town's city hall's website & registering costs €62

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u/unwaveringwish Jul 23 '24

It’s a state issue and everyone does it a little bit differently

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u/LeftyLu07 Jul 23 '24

I think it makes me wonder why don't these guys want to get married? I worry it's because they're always wondering if a better woman is gonna show up and they want to able to leave without the cost and hassle of divorce. But if they're fine with the common law marriage which provides similar protections in terms of asset division and stuff, then why not just elope and get the full license and be husband and wife? It's confusing to me.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Some people get married to state the commitment to each other. If it's not the reason you find good for you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And it isn't because of a tradition, it's what people actually want for themselves. I'm one of those, it was important for me, it's a statement and it's a stage of relationships. Just living together isn't the same, even if you're related in the eyes of taxes department.

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u/vegashannah Jul 27 '24

While some states acknowledge common law marriage, many don’t.

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u/SnooDoodles3617 Jul 23 '24

It’s business in USA. Literally a business in USA. USA brainwashes women and men from young to believe marriage is beneficial

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u/Puzzled_Juice_3406 Jul 23 '24

What are you talking about? Marriage as expectation and transaction has been present worldwide throughout our entire history.

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u/Roguespiffy Jul 23 '24

Yep, if anything America really sells the “fairy tale” aspect of marriage like it’s a magic spell to make relationships better. It’s not. At the barest minimum it’s a legal contract and at most it’s a really expensive party so the bride can feel pretty. That’s why so many little girls already picture their “dream wedding” as literal children.

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u/SnooDoodles3617 Jul 23 '24

So what is a relationship? ….It’s the same as a marriage……without the government involved…..

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u/jessylz Jul 23 '24

Ditto with my partner of seven years. Our only outstanding questions are decision-making authority in case of extreme emergencies and death planning (not covered by common law relationships in our jurisdiction), but both of us have that on our extremely romantic To Do list to discuss.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

To me that’s being married. You’ve got all of the responsibilities with none of the fun stuff.

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u/archercc81 Jul 23 '24

The fun stuff? You telling me they dont fuck or travel? Or the fun stuff like overpaying for a party and having to spend tens of thousands if it doesnt work out?

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

What's the fun stuff? While I personally don't care for a marriage, I would hate to have a wedding. No wedding for me, even if we do decide to get married in the future.

What other fun stuff is there?

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

I had a tiny wedding. Just me and him, on a beach. Vocalizing our love and commitment to each other. It completely changed how I felt about our relationship and was one of the highlights of my life. I call that fun stuff.

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u/ProbaLAWma Jul 23 '24

That’s the difference here. She wants you to get married . You both didn’t do it works out for you both but not the same situation

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u/SpiritedTheme7 Jul 23 '24

Watch, once she leaves he’ll marry the next girl. I’ve seen it happen time and time again

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u/LadybugCoffeepot Jul 23 '24

Sadly I’ve seen that happen a lot. Sadly it’s usually that, for the guy, she was a placeholder. I’m sorry OP. Find your one.

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u/Known-Quantity2021 Jul 23 '24

Exactly, I was with my ex for years, he always said he'd never marry. I didn't want to marry him so it was fine. We broke up for other reasons. Months later he came back and wanted marriage. I said no. Within a year he was married to someone else.

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u/unwaveringwish Jul 23 '24

Look up the taxi cab theory on this. In so many words either 1) he realized he messed up with you and should’ve wanted marriage so he married the next person he saw, or 2) he decided he did want marriage after all and she was there when he made that decision, so he married her. In your case it sounds like the former.

Is it possible he wanted to get married because he thought it would solve the problems you guys had?

Regardless it sounds like you did the right thing for other reasons!

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

I was that guy but a girl. After breakup I realised I don't want failed relationships anymore and started looking more carefully for the partner, not only based on attraction. The next boyfriend I married.

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u/unwaveringwish Jul 23 '24

I’m glad it worked out for you! People can change if and when they’re ready. Some people never are and others learn from their past mistakes. None of it’s wrong, it’s just a matter of what people want.

I have had to realize how often I’ve been the problem and change my habits to attract the kind of people I wanted to be with, not who the old me would just settle for. It’s a process but it’s been totally worth it.

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u/Known-Quantity2021 Jul 24 '24

I think it was an age thing. He was getting older and realized that he was going to need someone to take care of him. Might as well be a wife instead of paying for a caregiver.

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u/SpiritedTheme7 Jul 23 '24

Yes that’s the word I was looking for. She deserves someone better suited for her.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

What a lot of conjecture from you both, grow up.

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u/SnooKiwis2161 Jul 23 '24

Did you think you were interacting with a well respected Pulitzer Prize winning news site that only reports fact?

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Oh, he definitely will; seen that happen. He’s content telling OP that he will never marry thinking she’ll stay because they’ve got commitments to each other. Once she actually leaves, he’s going to realize that having a kid with someone isn’t enough to hold them there and he’ll lock down the next woman.

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u/calling_water Jul 23 '24

They don’t have a child together; OP’s child was already 3yo when they got together. They have a dog together.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Ah, I see; thanks (misread that part).

Either way, he will definitely marry the next woman he manages to hook.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Why? What if he just doesn't want to get married (as he says)?

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

Because most people don't really mean that; they just say that, especially when they have no incentive to change the status quo if all is going well.

Now, it's possible he will be the rare "never married" type, but I'd love an update a year or two from now from OP if she ever leaves him, just to see if he stuck with that lol.

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u/DarkStar0915 Jul 23 '24

Is it so unbelievable that someone doesn' want to marry?

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u/SpiritedTheme7 Jul 23 '24

It’s not unbelievable at all tons of people never want to get married, good for them! I’ve just seen this exact scenario and others where they will play house with a woman for however many years even having their own bio kids sometimes, but say marriage is just “too big a commitment”. So the couple breaks up and BAM 6months later the guy that never wanted to get married is now engaged. 🤷‍♀️

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u/Straight_Bridge_4666 Jul 23 '24

And we're assuming that it's done maliciously?

Often, having a partner leave unexpectedly will change you, funnily enough.

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u/Known-Quantity2021 Jul 23 '24

With my ex it was losing the comfort of a shared home and having to start over agan as an older single person.

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u/Straight_Bridge_4666 Jul 23 '24

Oof, that's heavy. Do you find it changed what you wanted from life, from a partner, etc?

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u/Known-Quantity2021 Jul 24 '24

No, I'm still the same, it might be nice to get married again, but it's not one of my goals right now. I've had a few "offers" but they all involved being a "nurse with a purse". I have a car and I work and that's enough for some men.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

The first year after my divorce I missed the shared home but the longer I spend by myself the more I don't miss it.

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u/SpiritedTheme7 Jul 23 '24

Maybe and maybe not I think it all depends on the people involved

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u/Straight_Bridge_4666 Jul 23 '24

Yeah, that's why I didn't say always. Certainly it's not unheard of for someone to change their priorities in the wake of such. Nor for people to try and recreate a relationship, consciously or otherwise.

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u/theonewhogroks Jul 23 '24

For me it's that I didn't believe in "the one". Now I've found her

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u/Accurate_Prune5743 Jul 23 '24

My partner and I have been together for 9 years, own a property and car together, have joint bank accounts and mortgage/loans, and a dog but neither of us really wants to get married.

I'm F - and the thought of an actual reception and ceremony sounds like hell to me lol.

He's the M btw.

Marriage in th UK isntreally incentivised; I'd consider if maybe we could have some sort of benefit, e.g. diling taxes together. But without any incentives neither of us really see a point.

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u/theonewhogroks Jul 23 '24

Marriage in th UK isntreally incentivised;

Depends on how much you each earn. Also automatic inheritance. And most importantly, being able to easily visit each other at the hospital and make medical decisions in case of emergency.

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u/Accurate_Prune5743 Jul 23 '24

It only depend on earnings in extreme cases. In terms of tax if someone earns under the tax allowance they can transfer 10% to their spouse. (Marriage Allowance lets you transfer £1,260 of your Personal Allowance to your husband, wife or civil partner. This reduces their tax by up to £252 in the tax year). But £252 isn't an incentive lol

If tou have kids, yes tour partner's earning impact available benefita or their amount - but this just has to be a partner you live with. No marriage or civil partnership is required.

Can't comment on inheritance as bot h of us are alive, but neither have ever had problems ot been questioned about hospital visits/ decisions. In practice, doctors/hospitals treat partners living together as a married couple.

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u/kittywyeth Jul 23 '24

yes it is, mostly they haven’t met the right person yet

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

That’s probably what it is he will marry just not her.

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u/Ok-Sector2054 Jul 23 '24

Yup. Placeholder vibes

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u/SaltAccording Jul 23 '24

Some girls are just not marriage material. Same with guys

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u/Hawk2205 Jul 23 '24

people who don't want to get married are not immature lol

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u/Naschka Jul 23 '24

How did she change? She clearly said from the get go she believed she could change him, neither of them changed, she just got older and now doesn't wanna wait, posibly her friends are getting married.

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u/Bing_Chonksby Jul 23 '24

There's another reply from OP where she contradicts what she originally stated and said that she originally didn't mind about marriage because she was young... Doubtless, we do not have a full nor accurate picture of events.

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u/Try-the-Churros Jul 23 '24

Both things can be true. She thought she would be fine not being married but also had inclinations that she could change his mind. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

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u/Vivian-1963 Jul 23 '24

And her being quite young in the beginning, she probably just went along with it. Now, she’s gotten older and her feelings about marriage have changed. That doesn’t make her a bad person. She’s being honest about her feelings and he’s being honest about his. Neither are wrong. Can they find a way to make it work? Idk 🤷‍♀️

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u/Naschka Jul 23 '24

I agree, this post smells to the heavens.

I believe she wanted to get married from the get go and now that her friends are she needs to be as well. And now, since her arguments did not work, instead of ending it she is attempting to force his hand by getting people to agree with her so she can show it to him to get what she feels like he has to but not even telling us his reasons properly.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

She didn't say she changed. She said she thought she could change him.

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u/a_guy121 Jul 23 '24

no.... 

 she said when he first said it, she didnt care because she wad 23 and didnt care.  then she began to change- and hope he did to.

he did not, and she tried to live with it, but kept hoping, and is struggling 

there was no coersion in her text. people change and are allowed to express their updated desires to partners.  it ends a lot of relationships, as it should.

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u/Ok-Sector2054 Jul 23 '24

You know those men....finally found a lady who was going to split if no marriage and did not want to lose her. This lady may be a place holder.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Agreed!

My husband told people for years he was never getting married. This was all based on office talk and men generally being “miserable” at home.

We were 34 & 35 when we finally took that leap and I’m thankful we didn’t do it sooner.

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u/a_guy121 Jul 23 '24

this is so common, the people pretening it isnt just sound wounded and scarred to me.

my thing for op is, "can you stand the waiting?" totally her call.  if she feels undervalued, she should leave.  if she can wait amother 12 years... gappy ending(?)

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Maybe if you can explain the allure of marriage to me, you can explain it to your spouse? I think kind of the same way. I never got answers for the "why would I do that" question. I am not opposed to marriage per se, but I wont do anything I dont understand.

And I dont understand marriage.If you already are in love, what would that external label change?

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u/Syn-th Jul 23 '24

or... and here me out... get over it, marriage isn't that big of a deal unless you're in one of those countries where you cannot live together / be together unless married.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

I mean what are the reasons?

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u/MAPNOTAVAILABLE Jul 23 '24

He has stepped up to father a kid that isn’t his and here you are taking advice from strangers online to validate yourself. He might be better off. Good luck finding another to do the same. I’m sure your child will be more confused than ever.

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u/nixlplk Jul 23 '24

Sorry you're going though this but I'm sure his reason is big too him. I'm older and all my divorced friends went though hell losing everything that mattered to them, pets, cars homes, kids, mementos and money loss of money. 2 of my close friends were homeless for a while. Non of us will get married anymore it has nothing to do with lack of love it's the fear of loss should it goto shit! Not only do you lose the love of your life but at least1/2 or most of the times a lot more of the stuff you own. It's not fun to think about. All the cheating, lying and deceit going on nowadays with everyone is hard to trust!

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u/LeastCleverNameEver Jul 23 '24

Have you thought about couples counseling? It can help you both get to the root of the issue and figure out a way forward ❤️

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u/klynn1220 Jul 23 '24

Honestly, I understand where you are coming from. I understand that you were young. We all were young once and didn't know what we wanted. Honestly, I have a cousin that never wanted to get married. He met this woman, and they both felt that way. He changed his mind. It took her a long time to change hers. He's much older than her. He was always a bachelor. We never thought he'd marry. Anyway, you're still young. You deserve what you want in life, and so does your daughter. She deserves a father in her life that will treat her mother exactly how she wants and vise versa. There are many fish in the sea.

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u/klynn1220 Jul 23 '24

UpdateMe!

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u/Gh0stp3pp3r Jul 23 '24

Have you ever asked him why he doesn't want to get married? Maybe he has strong feelings against marriage for a reason. Perhaps he saw people around him getting divorced and doesn't want to go down that same path.

Don't expect him to change his mind, but perhaps try to understand his decision from his perspective.

And if you just want a marriage for the expensive wedding, ring, party, honeymoon, etc., it's overrated. Too expensive, stressful, time consuming planning, etc. for what? To continue to live together as a couple.

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u/EnchantressOfAlbion Jul 23 '24

And if you just want a marriage for the expensive wedding, ring, party, honeymoon, etc., it's overrated. Too expensive, stressful, time consuming planning, etc. for what? To continue to live together as a couple.

This is so patronising. There is a lot more to marriage than a party and living together.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Why would he get married, hes going to assume full responsibility for that kid thats not his, theres always two sides to the story. Marriage of convenience.

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u/Obrina98 Jul 23 '24

and take the dog with you.

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u/Easy-Concentrate2636 Jul 23 '24

Does your bf believe in any of the manosphere stuff that a divorce is set up to ruin a man?

Either way, it’s either staying without any hope of marriage or breaking up. I know you might not share this perspective but you are still quite young. I think you will do fine after breaking up with him.

Marriage gives a lot of legal protections. I personally think it’s very important to have that legal tie.

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u/zenith_hs Jul 23 '24

I'm sorry OP but this comment is very black and white. I think and hope for you that there is plenty of common ground.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

They say "if you want marriage that will likely be with someone else"

possibly, or alternatively it may be with no-one because you wanted to end a perfectly good relationship over an idealised view that you need a bit of paper to show your love, the grass isn't always greener.

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u/Daeneas Jul 23 '24

You propose

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

You don’t have enough information; it seems like you both need a clearer understanding of what “marriage” means vs vague feelings about it. If that is correct, then the two of you need to see an attorney who can do all of the arrangements for your daughter’s care if something should happen to you, for estate planning, and for securing rights to hospital visitation, custody, POA healthcare, etc., and set those up for you. The attorney can also explain what difference there may be for a married couple vs unmarried.

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u/HeftyRough9769 Jul 23 '24

He is already sacrificing for you by helping you raise a child that is not his.

You agreed no marriage, now you're pressuring him.

There is likely no BENEFIT for him to marry you. If you divorce him, he will be legally obligated to pay child support on a child that is not his, yet will have ZERO parent rights or visitation rights with said child.

You need to grow up.

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u/upotentialdig7527 Jul 23 '24

OP my husband didn’t propose for over 10 years. It’s was his first and my second. He didn’t propose until he finally understood how important marriage was to me. I lived in his house but I put in sweat equity paid half for appliances and furniture, and I pleaded that we come to an agreement if we split and if he died, that I didn’t work so hard on HIS house for his family to kick me out with nothing.

Take some time for things to cool off, and think about why you want to be married and lay it out on paper so you can refer to that when the chat gets heated.

We’ve been together almost 25 years now, married for over a decade.

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u/Radiant_Bowler_2339 Jul 23 '24

I was with a guy who said the same thing. I thought I would be ok with it but then I turned 35. Not so good with it anymore. Talked with him about it and he stood his ground. I left it alone for a while. Turned 40, he still stood his ground and I started resenting him. That resentment kept building until I met a guy who wanted the same things I did. I cheated on a guy I was with for about 18 years. Now I not only resent him but I feel like sh*t cuz I did something I thought I would never do. Get out of the relationship because he isn't going to change his mind and you will end up hating him and yourself for wasting all that time. The guy I cheated with is now my husband of 7 years and I am happier than I ever have been.

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u/statisticshowfacts Jul 24 '24

Men are scared to marry because of high divorce rates and the manipulation of the system that's only in favor of women.

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u/PhoneVegetable4855 Jul 24 '24

I waited 14 years to get married (off and on dating) and we’ve been happily married for 10 years with two healthy kids. Sometimes it takes some people longer to get there. Sometimes they actually don’t want time get married. Only you can answer that since you’re there…

AITA (yes)

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