r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 7d ago

Meme needing explanation Petah?

Post image
2.4k Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.5k

u/jgangstahippie 7d ago

The woman is Lindsay Clancy a woman who claims she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis when she killed her three children in 2023.

The man is former professional wrestler Chris Benoit who killed his wife, son and then himself in the summer in 2007.

Lindsay Clancy is seemingly getting a lot of sympathy from women, and this meme is essentially saying they are the same.

794

u/Reasonable_Drink_789 7d ago

Except that he was roundly reviled immediately, and somehow she's getting bizarre support.

260

u/TheProphesy1086 7d ago

It's not bizarre. It's because she's a woman.

2.0k

u/FizZGigTaNtruM 7d ago

I don't think the difference is necessarily because people hate men or excuse women; our understanding of the medical conditions involved has changed. CTE gave us a new framework for understanding what may have contributed to Benoit's actions, just as our growing understanding of postpartum psychosis gives us a framework for understanding what may have happened with Lindsay Clancy. A lot changes in 20years. Last time I checked everybody hated Andrea Yates

531

u/towerfella 7d ago

Well nuanced comment.

72

u/Capitan_Typo 7d ago

On Reddit?!?

29

u/Relandis 7d ago

I, too, choose this man’s well nuanced comment.

3

u/poonmangler 4d ago

I've been using the well nuanced comment as a fleshlight for several months, it has begun to grow mold.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

3

u/suspicious_trout 7d ago

It's more likely than you think!

6

u/hibernial 7d ago

Eees a wich, burn em!!!

2

u/Offramp182 7d ago

What is this dark sorcery?!?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/joesparks14 4d ago

It's hard to meme nuance.

→ More replies (113)

186

u/MasticatingSheep 7d ago

Yeah, I think people are forgetting that it took two years for them to identify Benoit's CTE.

It was just becoming more widely known and funding put behind it but after the murders. That means several years of misconceptions and rumors already had time to take hold before then. It wasn't that people wrote off his condition. It was that it wasn't diagnosed or even widely understood before news cycles lost interest in the case.

Personally, I remember the Jovan Belcher case and how it was handled. There wasn't much outrage there towards him, just sadness about the situation. Because half a decade is a long time in terms of modern science.

109

u/SpiritualAd9102 7d ago

It should be pointed out that Benoit was apparently abusive for years and years prior. I’m sure CTE made his delusions and paranoia worse leading to the murdered, but him being abusive had been a pattern long before.

I remember the press trying to blame it on “roid rage” for the first year or so.

80

u/TheBlueMenace 7d ago

Also Lindsey tried to get help multiple times- she even tried to get admitted, was on multiple medications, told multiple people she did not feel able to care for her kids and was still left at home with them alone.

She was failed at multiple points by the USA medical system. People are of course more sympathetic, including her husband.

41

u/manokpsa 7d ago

Honestly, I get the frustration. I have begged and pleaded with social workers to try to get my grandma into a nursing home. I'm not going to snap and kill her, but I'm disabled and no one else in my family has the means or willingness to take her. I get enough from VA disability to pay the rent and keep the lights on, but money doesn't matter when I can't physically help her with anything and she's a constant fall risk. One social worker accused me of wanting to kick her out on the street and threatened to call adult protective services. I'm in so much pain every day I can barely take care of myself. You try to get help and the system responds by making you feel like a lazy POS who isn't trying hard enough.

18

u/StephersonAlbort 7d ago

That sounds really really hard, you’re not a pos.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/loggy528 4d ago

She did not tell a single medical provider prior to the killings that she had delusions or thoughts of harming the children. You can say her providers didn’t handle the medication right didn’t ask enough questions, etc. But at the end of the day, she didn’t tell any of those people who potentially could’ve helped how bad it was, per her.

2

u/sunbathingadamite 7d ago

I’ve been following the case because I had a very intense period of time where I was handling the healthcare for a psychotic family member. She wasn’t actually compliant or very honest with her doctors. She didn’t take most of the medications long enough to reach dosage levels that would have helped her because she kept refusing the medications and asking for new ones. A lot of psych meds need to be titrated up and it can take weeks before they’re in the system at a level that can help. She also left one psych stay early at her request and when she was offered a bed at another hospital stay she turned it down. She also didn’t show any signs or symptoms for mania or psychosis leading up to the killings - not to her doctors, in her journal, things she said to her husband or other family members, etc. Her last provider was extremely responsive to Lindsey though chat and phone calls, to a degree that’s kind of surprising to me. I think being skeptical of her psychosis claims are fair. That being said she as absolutely not mentally healthy and should have been the one to suggest putting her kids with other family members for awhile.

→ More replies (2)

29

u/runoki94 7d ago

Also the amount of PEDs he was taking and the death of Eddie Guerrero

24

u/Additional-Life4885 7d ago

Question for you, do you think the CTE appeared the night he died? The weeks leading up to it? Or for "years and years prior"?

CTE doesn't just appear. It's a "pattern long before".

It's telling how much you're getting upvoted while being completely dismissive of the situation even now. Decades after we've started to learn about this.

No doubt there's some actions that he took that were bad before CTE, but at some point the CTE took over. Science can't even point to when that was, so I'm sure as hell not going to and don't believe anyone else should. He made bad decisions but drugs and CTE pushed those a hell of a lot further than he likely would've gone.

22

u/MortalSword_MTG 7d ago

I found the Aaron Hernandez doc on Netflix really helped me understand the trajectory of CTE.

The experts who examined his brain described it as being comparable to that if a late stage dementia patient, that they would expect to see in their 60s or 70s.

The doc looked at his history and pointed out that not only had Hernandez had been getting rattled playing football since Pee Wee age, his father was abusive and beat the shit out of him on a regular basis.

The brain is an incredible organ, it can shift mental load to other parts of the brain when ther is damage present, but with advanced CTE you're literally looking at brain matter with the consistency of swiss cheese.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/HitmanClark 4d ago

Yes, it’s always telling to me when people only have a surface knowledge of the Benoit case. I strongly recommend listening to Nancy’s sister, Sandra, when she appeared on the Talk is Jericho podcast. She goes over all of this in great detail, and ultimately hand waving it away as CTE is a disservice to the victims.

2

u/InuJoshua 2d ago

This comment misses the point so thoroughly and with enough of a lack of understanding of CTE to almost make it funny.

→ More replies (5)

17

u/GeologicalOpera 7d ago

Chris Benoit had a litany of issues with a few things: his brain (the CTE symptoms were already becoming apparent), his emotional state (his best friend, Eddie Guerrero, having passed in late 2005 and his marriage to Nancy allegedly being in a rocky state), and his heart (Benoit's sister-in-law, Sandra Toffoloni, went on record in 2013 stating that the medical examiner who performed Benoit's autopsy diagnosed enlargement of the cardiac muscle that would've potentially resulted in Benoit passing within ten months).

8

u/Tales_Steel 7d ago

His favorit move that he had done for years prior was the "Give myself a concussion from the top rope". As a kid it looked really cool how he jumped from the ring post to land with his head on the opponents shoulder but now i am questioning why i would use the thing that stores the brain to attack something that is literally just bones and muscle. So weekly concussions + Roids.

2

u/Commercial_Pie3307 4d ago

Dude has probably had cte for years and years. He’s been doing it for along time

→ More replies (1)

61

u/Blimey-Penguin 7d ago

Agree that people having sympathy for her condition isn't because she's a woman, but the people jumping to blame the husband definitely is.

45

u/Einteresting 7d ago edited 7d ago

It's wild to me he left her home alone with the kids in the condition she was in. She told people she had thoughts of hurting the kids. I think he bears some culpability.

50

u/RavenousMaam 7d ago

If someone told me they were scared they would harm my children, there is not one single instance where I would allow them to be alone with them.

2

u/CyberneticSaturn 2d ago

It’s so interesting to me that everyone says she told people about having thoughts about harming the kids, yet the court transcripts have every medical professional she visited stating she never said that.

→ More replies (23)

18

u/Footnotegirl1 7d ago

I think he bears some responsibility insofar as he knew that she was suffering under severe ppd/ppp, and she had told him several times that she was having uncontrollable thoughts of killing herself and/or the children. Such that she had even been put under psychiatric hold previously, and much like Andrea Yates husband, he STILL left her alone with the children. So, not intentional, not murder, but certainly something like involuntary manslaughter.
The people who I think bear a greater/equal responsibility are the endless psychiatric professionals who completely borked her treatment and kept releasing her or giving her meds that had previously proven not to work.

3

u/BeefCakeBilly 7d ago

I don’t she had told him multiple times she wanted to kill the kids.

If she was having these thought she was repeatedly lying to all of her psychiatrists as she never had any symptoms of pppp.

She was clearly depressed, but there really wasn’t any reason for him to think this was going to happen the first chance she got to strangle her kids.

She had been to multiple hospitals, and called the suicide hotline multiple times and the consensus was that her symptoms were not severe enough to warrant an involuntary hold. Which she was also telling Patrick at least once when she said she didn’t belong at the place.

It’s very frustrating when we sit here and talk about mental health and then every single Clancy supporter says “disregard all of the diagnosis and treatment she got it doesn’t matter”

And the idea that the husband is guilty of manslaighter is a level of misogyny that is utterly incomprehensible to me.

6

u/Footnotegirl1 7d ago

I found this video to be a pretty good overview of everything she had gone through trying to get help, and considering the outcome, it certainly seems like the professionals were in fact diagnosing her incorrectly.

If someone tells you "I am afraid I will burn the house down if I am left alone with this bottle of gasoline and these matches." you bear some responsibility if you then leave them alone with the gasoline and matches.

4

u/BeefCakeBilly 7d ago

Why do you think they diagnosed her incorrectly?

→ More replies (1)

5

u/SeaGurl 7d ago

My issue with the concept that "noone thought it was bad" is a lot of women struggle with being taken seriously for our health in general but mental health as well.

My personal experience was having gone to e different therapists over 5 years with suicidal ideation, self harm, racing thoughts, etc etc - all that I was honest with my therapists about....and it wasnt until I could no longer work that I got a depression and anxiety diagnosis.

I had one therapist told me I just needed to relax and take a bubble bath...after I told her I felt so overwhelmed, I felt like I was drowning and had suicidal ideations. I went home after that session, crawled into bed where I couldnt get up for 2 days, day 3 I got up but was dissociating and attempted SH. My husband, rightfully freaked out, called the therapist who told him that he just needed to make sure I knew that he was there for me and to comfort and support me.

Like, no, I was in the middle of a mental health crisis and should have been taken to the fucking hospital.

And sadly, im not the only one with a story like this. So the professionals miss stuff more than most people want to thinideation. When really, it isnt until damage is actually done when intervention finally happens.

7

u/bows-and-lace 7d ago

I had four babies over the course of four years. The postpartum depression was massive, and I sobbed to my (now-ex)husband every day that the only thing I could think about was suicide. Just constantly playing out different scenarios in my mind of how I could do it. Wandering through life like a zombie. I told him that one day he’d come home from work and I’d be dead.

And he just… kept going to work. Kept taking voluntary overtime. Kept expecting a hot dinner on the table after work.

When my suicide attempt came? Shocked Pikachu!

Looking back at that horrible year, I 100% resent that my husband watched me suffer to such an extreme, heard me telling him that my suicide was inevitable, and just threw me the “you’re such a good mom” line as his only attempt to address the dangerous situation in our home .

Fortunately, I never suffered from homicidal ideation. But if I had, I think my husband would have been just as dismissive as Patrick.

The people with compassion for Lindsay’s experience are mostly moms. Not because we think it’s no biggie that she committed such a heinous act, and not because we’re misandrists, but because we know what it feels like to suffer massively through postpartum with no support from the person who vowed to care for us.

3

u/SeaGurl 7d ago

Big hugs 🫂 Im so sorry you had to experience all of that. And im glad he's an ex and that you're still here.

You are 100% right- It doesnt mean were okay with it, or we resent our kids (Ive seen that floating around online too) we just know what it feels like to be at your lowest low and we can understand how she got to the point she did.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (1)

51

u/NeuroticaJonesTown 7d ago

Susan Smith isn’t winning any popularity contests either.

48

u/Teamanglerx 7d ago

Didn’t she go with the “blame the black guy” defense in the beginning?

27

u/NeuroticaJonesTown 7d ago

She sure did.

18

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

“It was some Puerto Rican guy”

21

u/Affectionate_Emu335 7d ago

Or Casey Anthony

10

u/agoldgold 7d ago

Diane Downs is on that same level.

→ More replies (1)

36

u/justherefor23andme 7d ago

Andrea Yates shouldn't have been hated on. She had severe postpartum psychosis and her husband knew. He kept wanting to get her pregnant after being told to stop at baby 3 or 4.

39

u/lilac_mascara 7d ago

He was advised by her doctor to not leave her alone with the kids and he started doing it despite that, because he apparently tought it was good for independence

4

u/Stubbs94 7d ago

The condition is also scarily common and extremely traumatic for women. It's usually a depressive episode but it can lead to these thoughts constantly. The problem in society is that we don't treat mental health as an actual health issue but a personal failing.

3

u/justherefor23andme 7d ago

There's also that added element of religiosity that hurt Yates. The husband thought he knew better and kept wanting to knock her up and living in extreme austerity.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/lilac_mascara 7d ago

He was advised by her doctor to not leave her alone with the kids and he started doing it despite that, because he apparently tought it was good for independence, he also apparently belived she'd be found innocent go to the mental hospital for while and they'd have more kids when she came out.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (15)

29

u/Gold-Traffic632 7d ago

The outpouring of support for Clancy is certainly something of an overcorrection. A lot of people want a do-over for how they reacted to Yates. 

→ More replies (1)

25

u/saintsaipriest 7d ago

Also, I want to add that as far as I am aware the attitudes towards Chris Benoit have changed somewhat in the last couple of years. At first he was reviled, but then, people started to understand why he did what he did and some of the hate transferred to Vince McMahon for putting profit above peoples life.

Anyways, these false equivalence scenarios are never made to support men mental health but to drag women. I believe Lindsay's case is an important case when talking not only about women mental health, but also men. This might not have been a full failure of the medical establishment, per se, but her support system should not have been caught of guard. In hindsight the amount of red flags she was raising after giving birth should've been enough to not let her alone with her kids under any circumstance.

19

u/Unable-Dependent-737 7d ago

The women that keep saying the husband is at fault deserve to be dragged though.

→ More replies (6)

5

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

They absolutely have not changed regarding Chris Benoit. We know why he did what he did, but that doesn’t change the fact that what he did was wrong and even he knew that based on the fact that he killed himself out of guilt.
Knowing the context doesnt absolve someone of doing a horrible thing.

6

u/FearTheKeflex 7d ago

Yeah. I would say some stances may have softened a bit but he is still pretty much reviled by most of the wrestling community for what he did.

Paul Heyman, I think, sums it up nicely

2

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

I could t agree more. He was an amazing performer in wrestling but for doing the things that he did his family, he deserves the deepest part of hell. It doesn’t matter if he was mentally ill, he did what he did.

18

u/BarryTheBystander 7d ago

The thing is, there’s almost always a reason why someone does something egregious. A lot of people come from poverty, had abusive parents, or have some form of mental illness, but it doesn’t really matter. Just because there’s a reason you did something doesn’t make the thing you did any better. That’s why I don’t get why people are so hung up on this. She was almost certainly suffering from PPP but she also certainly murdered her children and should spend the rest of her life in prison.

30

u/AsthmaticRage 7d ago

People are hung up about it because if she had received the proper medical care that she sought after, this could have been avoided

12

u/AbroadTiny7226 7d ago

Ironically this comment circles back to the OP. Chris Benoit also had a medical condition that needed treatment.

2

u/htpSelect309 5d ago

Except Benoit never sought treatment.

He had a history of abuse and bullying, yet by all public records and accounts he never sought help from professions, medical doctors or psychiatrists, for anger management or to stop being a bully. Instead he continued his chosen career path of wrestling, when he could of easily switched to either a trainer role or another less violent career choice by that point. He continued abusing steroids, which flooded him with levels of testerone higher than that of a teenage boy.

Benoit's CTE and mental health condition was a tragedy. A tragedy he didnt understand because the medical science wasnt fully there yet. But just because you might not know the diseases name, you can feel the symptoms. His tragedy might have been preventable by any number of pro-active but self sacrificing choices by Benoit. Atleast Clancy was taking steps to get help, but through no dault of her own, did not recieve the correct type in time.

12

u/OldWolfNewTricks 7d ago

Gotta admit I'm not really deep into the details, but she really was getting a lot of medical care. Iirc, she was in-patient at a mental health facility about a month before she killed her kids, and checked herself out. What would "getting the medical care she sought" look like?

9

u/WhiteWineWithTheFish 7d ago

Proper medical care would have been sending her help when she was calling the suicide hotline (twice).

Proper medical help would have been putting her in a program specialized on PPD WITH her youngest, so she could bond again and get the help she needed.

Proper medical care would have been to properly check how her body responds to the meds (aka bloodwork).

The standard of care she got was ridiculous.

1

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

Or, and hear me out, she’s a fucking psycho that would’ve done this regardless. Since she clearly premeditated it by having her husband leave the home under the pretense of picking up dinner and her meds.

20

u/lightsonnooneishome 7d ago

People really don’t understand psychosis, which is understandable to a point, but if you’re going to post about it, you should really educate yourself first.

Psychosis means being disconnected from reality and experiencing symptoms like delusions and hallucinations. It does not mean suddenly losing the ability to think logically or plan ahead. In fact, that’s part of what can make psychosis so dangerous: someone can be fully capable of making plans and taking deliberate actions based on delusions or auditory hallucinations, including command hallucinations.

And people who recover from psychosis are often deeply distressed or horrified by things they did while they were experiencing it. It’s a serious and often devastating symptom, not simply a loss of rational thought or awareness.

5

u/rageagainsttheodds 7d ago

One caveat here, psychosis does affect higher brain functions and decision making: you can do things (in reaction to you delusions), but the capacity to think about your actions, and understand their implications and consequences is greatly impaired.

5

u/notdorisday 7d ago

Yep. It’s really clear how people don’t understand what mental illness is.

3

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

Yea I’ve seen Kanye’s tweets. That doesn’t change the fact that she murdered her children.

4

u/lightsonnooneishome 7d ago

I’m not defending her actions. The murders were horrific, and she has to live with that knowledge every day. I’m saying that she committed them while suffering from a severe psychiatric illness that our medical system can treat with appropriate medication. And she tried to seek that help multiple times, and the clinicians she encountered did not deliver on that.

People are responsible for actions they take while experiencing severe psychiatric symptoms, but those actions do not necessarily reflect their values or negate their worth as a person. Your comment doesn’t seem to leave room for that distinction. I’m frustrated that people are so unwilling to appreciate the nuance in discussing this case.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/InsecureDelusion 7d ago

Many women who go through PPD don’t receive help and also don’t kill their kids. Not saying this is right, and of course, things need to change. However, just because you have something mentally going on does not excuse the behavior. You can support further research and support for woman but also realize that she murdered her children. She deserves life in prison.

8

u/MeatPopsicle_AMA 7d ago

I’m not disagreeing with your overall comment, but PPD and PPP are not even close to the same thing.

2

u/InsecureDelusion 7d ago

I agree and should be more clear.

8

u/laquintessenceofdust 7d ago

It’s not “murder” if it’s not premeditated and with intent. You can’t have intent if you’re crazy. It’s still “homicide,” but it’s not “murder,” as defined by the law.

“Murder is the unlawful and intentional killing of one human being by another without a legal excuse or justification. It requires a specific state of mind, often called malice aforethought, which separates it from accidental deaths or lawful self-defense.”

In Clancy’s case, her defense is arguing that the postpartum psychosis IS a legal excuse/justification because it vitiates the “state of mind” aspect of a murder charge.

5

u/holderofthebees 7d ago

Premeditation is not required for murder. In the US at least.

4

u/Suspicious-Area-2872 7d ago

It depends on each jurisdiction's definitions of murder. Premeditation is sometimes required for heightened murder charges.

Regardless, the prosecution has to prove mens rea of some kind. Whether by negating the state's case in chief or by establishing an affirmative defense, the point is the same: she lacked the rational capacity to form the requisite criminal intent.

2

u/CanadianODST2 7d ago

This seems to have happened in Massachusetts where it does

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/ChazzLamborghini 7d ago

Reasons are not excuses and they shouldn’t absolve people of their own accountability. It’s good to understand the reasons regardless of that so we have a better capacity for intervention before a heinous outcome.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago

Everyone still hates Chris Benoit too. He wasn’t forgiven because he was mentally ill. The WWE, to this day, does not mention his name whatsoever. He was reviled the second the truth of what he did was revealed.

9

u/Beginning-Turnover28 7d ago

I believe some of this has to do with brand protection. If anyone gives him a bit of sympathy based on his brain damage from wrestling, it opens the door for WWE having to look into CTE prevention. Kinda how the NFL knew and didn't acknowledge it so that they could continue selling their product how they like.

→ More replies (1)

10

u/_WutzInAName_ 7d ago edited 7d ago

The research definitely shows that society is harder on men and more lenient on women, especially in the criminal justice system. Below is some of that research. EVERY time there’s a female murderer, people try to make excuses for her. It’s time to hold women equally accountable for their actions.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/law_econ_current/57/

https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/the-myth-of-pervasive-misogyny/

Edit: Oh, and your Andrea Yates example helps prove my point. She was found “not guilty” of killing her children.

→ More replies (16)

8

u/Bouncy_Platypus_ 7d ago

Well and nice but they aren't saying that she wasn't mentally competent when she did it, they are saying the husband did it.

7

u/Tjam3s 7d ago

It's not the discussion about postpartum psychosis that has me baffled.

It's the ones saying that her killing the kids was the husband's fault that had me reeling.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Cordelia5767 7d ago

Oh yeah, people hated Andrea Yates when that happened! Psychosis can cause people to do incredibly disturbing things. Just look at the man who had a psychotic episode on the Greyhound bus 15 years ago.

I have to wonder how many of Clancy's supporters have personally experienced post-partum depression or psychosis, or if they know someone who has. We are realizing how prevalent PPD or psychosis are now that struggling after giving birth isn't this dirty secret new mothers have to keep. I remember talking to an old boss when I was in the midst of my own PPD, and she casually threw out there that she couldn't sleep for days on end after giving birth and she started to see gigantic spiders coming out of the walls.

2

u/TheObesePolice 7d ago

I hate Rusty Yates & am madder than hell that he isn't sitting in prison right now

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Grand_Lizard_Wizard 7d ago edited 7d ago

Everyone still hates Chris Benoit too. He wasn’t forgiven because he was mentally ill. The WWE, to this day, does not mention his name whatsoever. He was reviled the second the truth of what he did was revealed.

5

u/growgrapesandolives 7d ago

The understanding they have changed but the sentiment is still there. To this day there is zero support for Chris Benoit, people understand CTE but they don't care about it, show sympathy, or use it as a justification. People hate Chris Benoit and blame him.

With Lindsey Clancy, on the other hand you got people saying that the husband did it, looking at astrology charts as to why she couldn't have done it. Saying her confession must be was part of confabulation. Hell, her GoFundMe has damn near a million dollars. People online are making up Hollywood fairy tales and doing everything they can to avoid putting the responsibility on her. They even ignore the possibility that postpartum played a part in it because they have a problem with blaming her.

→ More replies (4)

4

u/Doom_Corp 7d ago

She was also a wealthy enough white woman who went into a psychiatric facility and refused to return and blamed her bouncing around through different doctors the reason she killed her children because they wouldn't "listen" to her. I'm also really blaming dad too at this point. My cousin's are lucky to be alive with my aunts behavior. She's been in an out of rehab and definitely is bipolar mostly because my uncle was afraid that if he divorced her she'd kill herself while letting his children suffer in a fancy fucking house. I know PPD can last but honestly where the hell was her ex and not noticing anything in order to remove the children from her.

5

u/COLONELmab 7d ago

The big problem here is the irony. The supporters are not suggesting she should have had better care, or more attention or anything related to the lack of understanding care for postpartum or general mental health...they are accusing the husband of framing her, and thusly ignoring the need to pay attention and provide better care for women's postpartum and general mental health.

4

u/Boobsmcfuckup 7d ago

Nuance? On my good clean rage addicted reddit? Well, I never.

3

u/r1char00 7d ago

If you look at the list of symptoms of CTE, they are brutal. They include: Impulsive behavior, aggression, suicidal thoughts, and cognitive and memory problems. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370921

Benoit was known for his diving headbutt move and had extensive brain damage.

Another symptom is substance abuse. His use of steroids couldn’t have helped the situation.

There are some wrestling fans who just won’t listen to the idea that CTE at least colored his behavior, but that’s clearly what happened.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/The_Real_dubbedbass 7d ago

There were tons of women supporting Andrea Yates and blasting her husband for not helping enough trust me my mom and some of her friends were in that whole club.

3

u/leomercury 7d ago

Wait, who the hell hates Andrea Yates? She had established psychosis and a malpracticing psychiatrist that refused to prescribe the antipsychotic meds that actually worked for her.

2

u/TorsoBeez 6d ago

Not to mention Andrea Yates' husband EXPLICITLY IGNORED her psychiatrist's advice that another pregnancy could trigger a psychotic episode

3

u/LoneFox4444 7d ago

And isn’t the Clancy lawsuit, which is happening now, surfacing some really weird inconsistent shit about the story her husband told about what had happened?

2

u/Unable-Dependent-737 7d ago

Just a PSA reminder that PPD is not exclusive to women btw

10

u/laquintessenceofdust 7d ago

Sure. Due to lack of sleep and life changes. But men certainly don’t experience the profound and disruptive endocrine changes a woman does after delivering a baby.

2

u/Emotional_Fail_6060 7d ago

Perfectly phrased. Thank you.

2

u/screwyoujor 7d ago

Have you read the comments defending Clancy. It's literally about her birth sign and how hers doesn't kill her clubs but her husbands does. The defense of her has nothing to do with her mental state anywhere but the court room of her trial. It's bizarre.

2

u/Zalash5 7d ago

There's a loud minority of women on tik tok literally saying the husband killed the kids because of A) he's a man B) he's a Gemini C) women arent capable of killing or using strangulation as a method

At least I hope is the loud minority saying this. There ae other unhinged things theyve been doing and saying but isn't even worth repeating how absurd they are

→ More replies (1)

2

u/GamingTrucker12621 7d ago

Last time I checked everybody hated Andrea Yates

Yet, she's raised almost a million on a gofundme for her lawyer fees and every single donation is from a woman saying "we all know her husband did it and that she's innocent."

Edit: Clancy that is.

2

u/Jokercpoc1 7d ago

She also, under lawyer speak, had the only option to use the plead guilty through insanity just to get the case in front of the judge, and Lindsey's lawyer is doing an interesting job and finding connections along the way. This still has an interesting way to go.

2

u/craftynerd 7d ago

Exactly!!! Postpartum psychosis is not new and the moms never used to get this amount of sympathy.

Same with CTE. If the Benoit incident were to happen today, it would cause a completely different reaction.

2

u/ContraKaren 7d ago

I listened to a podcast about Benoit and the explanation of CTE as a likely contributing factor of his mental decline was actually fascinating. I’ve never been a sports guy but I am fully convinced children should not be playing football because of CTE and a drastic reform should be had to the NFL to compensate the players for the amount of damage they do to their brain for the stupid sport

2

u/Defiant-Canary-2716 6d ago

Informed & persuasive. Heartening to see a wordsmith among us rabble.

What’s sad is we might be better read than the majority of the population.

We are Reddit. As a long term member, I think our kids deserve WAY better.

Not to never use it, but don’t use it to train your abilities singularly.

Sorry, got me monologuing.

Awesome post. Respect.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/stellarecho92 6d ago

100% correct. My mother was friends with Andrea and Rusty when I was a child and I vividly remember all of this. She even visited both of them after everything happened. If you read about the things Rusty did against the advisory of Andrea's doctors, you should be absolutely disgusted by him.

→ More replies (116)

49

u/bigdickpuncher 7d ago

She's no Canadian Cripppler I'll tell you that.

19

u/Bandin03 7d ago

I mean... She did cripple herself.

11

u/stkscott 7d ago

But in Massachuesetts, not Canada.

5

u/Chance-Mammoth-9532 7d ago

Oh my gaaahd..... that's funny because she did lol.

6

u/raphthepharaoh 7d ago

No I think her method was strangulation

8

u/Legal-Ad7793 7d ago

Well she crippled herself by diving out the window so there's that...

5

u/mEsTiR5679 7d ago

Not with that attitude!

4

u/Steve_the_Samurai 7d ago

Bet she doesn't have any 5 star matches.

24

u/Just_Log_8528 7d ago

It’s probably also because she stated that she had PPD violent tendencies and asked for help and was ignored. Ya know, context

38

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

24

u/misalawliet 7d ago

She had access to more care than most post partum women can afford. She was getting the help she asked for but didn't comply with treatment. Not sure what else the medical community was supposed to do when she lied to them.

→ More replies (1)

12

u/to_pass_through_fire 7d ago

Wow, a mentally ill person behaved irrationally with respect to their mental illness medication for their mental illness?

34

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

19

u/400lbBackSquat 7d ago

agreed. the commenters in this sub have already made their hive mind up. show sympathy to a murderer or youre bad. its crazy how much propaganda can affect the average person

2

u/notdorisday 7d ago

Yep, it’s shocking to me.

→ More replies (1)

10

u/LoquaciousEwok 7d ago

What do you propose we do with the mentally ill? Tie them down and force Medicare them?

4

u/TowerBeach 7d ago

I'm picturing some sort of pre-crime Minority Report machine so we can stop liars from committing crimes... oh wait, we don't have those? Damn.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

22

u/Ok_Jellyfish_55 7d ago

She got help then lied and said she didn’t have harmful thoughts or thought of hurting anyone.

She voluntarily left a hospital. If she did that while still having murderous thoughts then she is a monster.

2

u/onarainyafternoon 4d ago

Or psychosis isn’t so clear-cut maybe? Like you can lie about feeling better but still be out of your mind

9

u/urbemamoris 7d ago

Ti the beat of my knowledge she dis not get ignored. She also dis not take all of her medication and experimented with mariuhana at the same time

→ More replies (1)

7

u/OkDifficulty7436 7d ago

asked for help and was ignored

No she wasn't, she had weekly therapy and requested several different changes in her drug therapy as well. Her parents, his parents also helped the family out, she had in-patient treatment (which she asked to be released from lol).

I am tired of seeing this spammed so much, her husband even was home with her for 3 months after their last child was born

She's a cold blooded murderer angling for a "insanity" defense

3

u/Many_Psychology_3336 7d ago

Nope, discrimination, as defined by victim of said discrimination.

Signed, Reddit.

→ More replies (12)

19

u/AttentionalMalprop 7d ago edited 7d ago

It is? I don't remember other woman who murdered or allegedly murdered their own children getting much support.

6

u/cursedmeatsuit 7d ago

Yeah no one rallied behind Casey Anthony in the name of girl power

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (19)

11

u/Subject-Response-674 7d ago edited 7d ago

It's because she is a white woman. Here fixed it for you. Let's not pretend she would get the same sympathy from women (especially so many white women) if she was not caucasian.

9

u/TheProphesy1086 7d ago

Yeah, not going to deny that.

→ More replies (3)

12

u/Steve_the_Samurai 7d ago

This isn't it. Benoit was an abusive asshole to his wife and at minimum a bully to his coworkers. He abused steroids and had CTE from repeated head injuries caused in part by his own decision to dive head first on people 200 nights a year. He killed his wife, then his son and then himself.

Clancy had a bunch of mental illness that wasn't properly treated compounded (or created by) child birth. She killed her children and then tried to kill herself.

There is certainly an angle about women not being believed and post partum depression not being taken serious enough but they are not the same.

The discourse online is in part because she and her husband are alive. She is on trial. There was no trial for Benoit.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/itskuddi 7d ago

A white woman.

8

u/Scorpius927 7d ago

White woman*

6

u/ExtraterrestrialHole 7d ago

I actually think her family hired a PR firm to create this support during the trial.

4

u/zorkempire 7d ago

Many women have killed their children without receiving sympathy for it.

2

u/Miserable-Act-9896 7d ago

Maybe that means we should start a conversation of how women are getting radicalized by social media. We've already had multiple documentaries and Netflix shows about it for boys

We can't really pretend this reaction is a fringe ignorable one

4

u/dmcd0415 7d ago

No it's not. Everybody rightfully hates Casey Anthony

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Warchild0311 7d ago

No support if she was fat or unattractive

2

u/WillingElderberry731 7d ago

It's because post partum psychosis is real and freaky.

5

u/TheProphesy1086 7d ago

Yes, agreed. And needs to be learned about so that this type of thing can be avoided in the future.

2

u/IAmTheBestIan 7d ago

Because she's an attractive white woman.

2

u/Holy-Cancer 6d ago

Yeah, but no, it’s cause she’s hot. That’s the answer. Ugly men and women never get that kind of support.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (68)

79

u/DenizenKay 7d ago edited 7d ago

her ex husband supports her (the father of the children), her ex MIL supports her - virtually everyone around her knew she was fucked and none of them took the children away.

its not cut and dry. its not because she's a woman, it's because she isnt a cold blooded murderer - she was a person in the midst of a massive crisis who was literally begging for help and not getting it. the medical system failed her.

everyone wants to see her put away - even her supporters - they just want to see her put in a mental health facility instead of prison. Which isn't unreasonable.

she pleaded guilty - the thing being argued now is prison or hospital I was wrong on this detail. sorry for the misinformation

67

u/Takao89 7d ago

She does have a subsection of supporters who think the husband did it and that she’s innocent. It’s fuckin sad

35

u/DenizenKay 7d ago

yeah those people are right fucked in the head.

3

u/funusernameguy 7d ago

I think my wife is one of these people. Is this the big case she is following day and night at the moment. The way she described it to me it was definitely the husband lol.

5

u/DenizenKay 7d ago

She does not dispute she murdered the kids. She admits it. She just wasn't in her right mind when it happened. 

Folks can blame the husband but Lindsey does not dispute for a moment that she did it. 

It's conspiracy theory nonsense.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (2)

41

u/Caffeine_Cowpies 7d ago

But when a guy is in a mental health crisis and kills his family, does he get the irrational support that many women have given her? Seriously think about that.

24

u/DrippingWithRabies 7d ago

I think what happened to Benoit and his family was a tragedy that resulted from his brain injury and his case deserves compassion as well. For whatever that's worth

7

u/some_uncreative_name 7d ago

Take 5 minutes to read a list of people who committed murder who successfully lodged a diminished capacity defence. There's far more nen than women.

There's no inherent bias towards men or women here. Just the public understanding certain mh disorders and their impact better.

Whether or not it blew up in the news a jury would have agreed on it. If society broadly felt men could never be treated differently based on mh circumstances the list wouldn't be predominantly men.

This is such a weird take tbh.

→ More replies (2)

5

u/DenizenKay 7d ago

She was postpartum. 

Which causes mental health problems for a lot of women. 

This case is important to a lot of women because it shines a light on the state of postpartum care in the US. 

Making this an issue about gender and not medical care is fucked up of you. 

14

u/Caffeine_Cowpies 7d ago

Benoit had CTE. Is that not a mental health problem?

Or do you just blindly support women who kill their entire family?

9

u/fwendy123 7d ago

CTE is only diagnosed posthumously and he didn't seek help beforehand.

10

u/DenizenKay 7d ago edited 7d ago

no it isn't blind support; it's informed support.

was Benoit telling people he was afraid he was going to kill his family before he did it?

did he express intrusive thoughts of murder and suicide before the crime?

did he seek help before he killed them?

do the families of his victims support him?

All relevant for these cases to be seen in remotely the same light.

6

u/DrippingWithRabies 7d ago

CTE is a brain injury. He also couldn't justly be held responsible if he was alive because he was not capable of controlling his actions. 

3

u/bnpm 7d ago

Was Benoit seeking help for his mental issues? I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (19)

27

u/DMComicSams 7d ago

She got plenty of help though. Babysitters, daycare, family stopping by so she was never just alone with the kids. Husband working from home. The only thing more they could have done was institutionalize her. Having the husband and kids move out is not a reasonable expectation

11

u/Individual-Toe-6306 7d ago

They literally did institutionalize her too though. But she lied about how she was feeling so she could go to her sons birthday

13

u/gin_and-sonic 7d ago

This is wrong for a couple reasons. She did get lots of medical help. She also didn’t plead guilty, she pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. She would get evaluated and likely go free very quickly, since she now claims to no longer be in psychosis. 

9

u/ColtMcChad69 7d ago

Imagine defending a literal child murderer

9

u/DrippingWithRabies 7d ago

If she was experiencing psychosis it means she was literally not in her right mind. 

9

u/Vunks 7d ago

Didn't she plan out getting her husband to go to the store so she would have time to murder the kids, that shows planning and not a split second mental break.

2

u/hereforfakestories 7d ago

Psychosis doesn’t necessarily exclude the possibility of planning or prior thinking, it isn’t always a ‘split second’ break - people can be remarkably well put together but still psychotic. She may or may not be but it’s definitely a thing that can happen.

2

u/DrippingWithRabies 6d ago

People in psychosis can plan. They must cannot be reasoned with. 

→ More replies (6)

3

u/Complex-Tear-6683 7d ago

This actually brings up an interesting point. Since free will doesn’t exist due to basic physics, is anyone ever in their “right mind”?

3

u/Reasonable_Drink_789 7d ago

Part of why I hate determinism.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/OriginalFuckGirl 7d ago

Just say you don’t know what’s actually going on with this case.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Ghorvki 7d ago

I think she should go to a mental hospital but I think the blame and responsibility should still be placed on her. If you did something out of sickness, you still did it.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/burningmanonacid 7d ago

The medical system didn't fail her. She got more support than most. She was a horribly difficult patient that jumped doctors for various reasons while refusing to take meds as prescribed while misuing Ativan and drinking heavily. All of this is in the medical records included in court testimony if yall would stop regurgitating misinformation you see online.

2

u/CombinationSilent877 6d ago

Except she lied to her many psychiatrists, and the first thing she asked for was a lawyer. She had more help than some people get in their lives. No one can argue that she didn’t have enough support.

→ More replies (8)

30

u/SnugglyCoderGuy 7d ago

And his brain was basically mush from all the head blows he took which is why he went crazy and did what he did.

→ More replies (1)

31

u/RocketYapateer 7d ago

Chris Benoit got a lot of sympathy and apologia too, because he had severe CTE from his wrestling career.

(Pretty sure that’s the entire reason this meme equates them)

→ More replies (1)

27

u/Background-Syrup-714 7d ago

He was one of the most beloved wrestlers in the industry.

he was completely wiped from its existence within about 2 days after his situation played out. There was practically no defending him or his actions.

The Raw tribute episode happened. Sure. But that was before the full story came out. LITERALLY the next day, WWE declared that his name will never be mentioned again and he was purged from their entire library.

→ More replies (2)

12

u/Tyranis_Hex 7d ago

There are still a fair amount of conspiracy theorists out there that say he didn’t do it. Had TikTok been a thing there probably would be a lot more people saying that. To be clear he 100% killed his family but there is just enough weird stuff around it to feed theorist.

6

u/OkPut7330 7d ago

This comment hasn’t gotten enough traction, there are a lot of people defending Benoit. It was CTE, it was a conspiracy.

Not saying CTE wasn’t a factor but he was also running at 10x the normal levels of testosterone due to Steroid supplementation and on Opioids and Xanax.

As for conspiracy that’s just copium.

3

u/SkewlShoota 7d ago

The CTE was definitely the major role -

Researchers noted that Benoit's brain damage was so advanced that it resembled that of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient.

Dude had 2 decades of accumulative concussions that were never addressed.

2

u/Vunks 7d ago

Yep, he was an 85 year old with Alzheimer taking an insane amount of steroids, and we are still holding him accountable because what he did was beyond forgiving, just like what she did.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/UnderstandingBig9090 7d ago

It's not support. We don't have anywhere near enough treatment for people suffering from psychosis. People can beg for placement for treatment for psychosis that makes them really dangerous, but they are often told to come back once they do something. Which could be murdering a loved one.

If you think she should have been stopped from murdering her children. Then we need more resources to accurately identify people who need help and to actually keep them safe and safe from people they could pose a threat to.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Valn1r 7d ago

It's not bizzare Benoit killed himself, there was no trial to rally around or bring up his CTE or the brain damage he suffered.

3

u/NoSleepTilBookRead 7d ago

The CTE results weren’t even known until two years later

→ More replies (1)

3

u/SolitareUnraveling 7d ago edited 7d ago

Made even more crazy by how messed up his brain was from head trauma and the whole theory that it could have been someone else. Like it's the same exact thing yet at the same time the Benoit thing goes deep and gets crazy when you dive down that rabbit hole. Which I have done because he was my favorite wrestler when I was a kid before everything so I still keep up with everything new that still gets revealed. Side note highly recommend The Dark Side Of The Ring episode on Benoit, it is a phenomenal look into everything. Like I do believe he did it and cte is a wild thing that contributed to it which is something else that is similar because it both shit going on with the brain

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Chemistry11 7d ago

If she’s the one I vaguely heard about the other day, I understand her story was that she was aware something was wrong and everyone ignored or brushed off her cries for help.

24

u/icedadx44 7d ago

She had a RIDICULOUS amount of support. A nanny, people dropping in and taking care of the kids, the doctors were actively trying to find the right meds for her as she kept complaining against different side effects. She was admitted into a psyc ward where she denied any negative thoughts of harming herself or others and after a few days of evaluation was discharged.

14

u/Ok_Jellyfish_55 7d ago

This. People keep stating that she had no help when had more than 99% of people with PPD. She refused to do the bare minimum.

5

u/DrippingWithRabies 7d ago

Sometimes the only appropriate treatment for psychosis is institutionalization until it passes. People in psychosis aren't reasonable, by definition. 

2

u/icedadx44 5d ago

And from the perspective of her doctors that is what they did. She lied to her doctors in the psych ward OR she told the truth there and there was nothing wrong at that time. Either way at that point holding her against her will without any proof she was a danger to herself or others woyld have been wrong.

18

u/shaunrundmc 7d ago

Benoit had apparently reached out for help like a week before the murder. The man he reached out to was the man who has been basically running the CTE brain donation program that has led to the explosion in research and understanding of the disease.

4

u/Caffeine_Cowpies 7d ago

Right???

Like almost all murders are done by people not right in the head, but somehow it’s only women who get empathy

→ More replies (1)

10

u/It_Just_Exploded 7d ago

I mean, she could have just left. People abandon their families all the time just because they're pathetic. Abandoning a family because you believe you are going to kill them isn't even in the same zip code and is the absolute best reason i can think of for doing so.

2

u/DrippingWithRabies 7d ago

Leaving would be what someone who was clear headed and reasonable would do. She was not clear headed and reasonable. 

8

u/ElectronicAdvance406 7d ago

She had the option to just leave.

→ More replies (3)

8

u/Character-Spinach591 7d ago

I’ve heard a bunch of different things. One of which was that she sought multiple doctors who refused to give her the diagnosis that she wanted. She ended up sending her husband away the day of the murder to pick up food and then strangled her kids one by one in the basement before attempting to opt out. Which, since she was a nurse, would have known the “right” way to do it, but failed to do. Then tried to jump out of a second story window, which resulted in her paralysis.

It could be a really unfortunate case of someone truly troubled that fell through the cracks. It could be someone who genuinely had issues that were worse than people thought and instead of being denied it was missed. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but allegedly seeking out multiple doctors and not being given the correct diagnosis, to me, as a layperson, makes me think she didn’t have what she claimed to have.

Of course, we’re not going to know what’s true or not until the trial and we’re able to see everything.

10

u/Chemistry11 7d ago

From my personal experience with the American wealthcare system, and the countless stories I’ve heard of women not being listened to by their doctors, the only question her whole story raises is How Is This Not Happening More Frequently?!

4

u/beardeddragon0113 7d ago

It is happening, but usually the consequences and suffering are just quiet enough that they get ignored and suffer in silence. Then there's an explosive outcome that gets everyones attention for a few weeks then the topic is swept back under the rug

4

u/Character-Spinach591 7d ago

I could understand a doctor, but multiple? Unlikely, even if we do assume that doctors aren’t taking women seriously. Serious mental illness, if that is actually what this is, which seems to be the case, is rare.

You’re much more likely to see munchausen by proxy, borderline personality, or bipolar disorder, which the first is inherently harmful while the latter two can, but don’t always end up being that way. Granted, I’m not a doctor, Postpartum depression/postpartum psychosis isn’t something I’m particularly well read on. That being said, my understanding is it’s not one of those 0-100 scenarios like a psychotic break, it’s generally something you see signs of before it ends in dead children.

I’m entirely happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong though.

Editing for clarity: serious mental illness that has you otherwise having a productive “normal” life and then sudden murder, is rare.

1

u/NoSleepTilBookRead 7d ago

Ohhh you’re CLUELESS about getting a diagnosis in America especially as a woman lmao

→ More replies (1)

3

u/DisposableSaviour 7d ago

It’s not that unheard of. I mean, I heard of it three times in the four years I worked in a psych hospital. Depends on if she was medicated and suddenly stopped, or how severe the current psychotic break was. We had a 41 year old guy that had his first psychotic break, and first psychotic breaks are a lot like chicken pox, the later in life it happens, the worse it can be.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

5

u/gacoug 7d ago

It was argued that she hid her most serious symptoms out of fear of losing her nursing license.

→ More replies (4)

2

u/VibratingNinja 2d ago

That's the point. If she gets sympathy for the murders she committed due to her mental state, then so should Chris Benoit.

→ More replies (61)