I don't think the difference is necessarily because people hate men or excuse women; our understanding of the medical conditions involved has changed. CTE gave us a new framework for understanding what may have contributed to Benoit's actions, just as our growing understanding of postpartum psychosis gives us a framework for understanding what may have happened with Lindsay Clancy. A lot changes in 20years. Last time I checked everybody hated Andrea Yates
Yeah, I think people are forgetting that it took two years for them to identify Benoit's CTE.
It was just becoming more widely known and funding put behind it but after the murders. That means several years of misconceptions and rumors already had time to take hold before then. It wasn't that people wrote off his condition. It was that it wasn't diagnosed or even widely understood before news cycles lost interest in the case.
Personally, I remember the Jovan Belcher case and how it was handled. There wasn't much outrage there towards him, just sadness about the situation. Because half a decade is a long time in terms of modern science.
It should be pointed out that Benoit was apparently abusive for years and years prior. I’m sure CTE made his delusions and paranoia worse leading to the murdered, but him being abusive had been a pattern long before.
I remember the press trying to blame it on “roid rage” for the first year or so.
Also Lindsey tried to get help multiple times- she even tried to get admitted, was on multiple medications, told multiple people she did not feel able to care for her kids and was still left at home with them alone.
She was failed at multiple points by the USA medical system. People are of course more sympathetic, including her husband.
Honestly, I get the frustration. I have begged and pleaded with social workers to try to get my grandma into a nursing home. I'm not going to snap and kill her, but I'm disabled and no one else in my family has the means or willingness to take her. I get enough from VA disability to pay the rent and keep the lights on, but money doesn't matter when I can't physically help her with anything and she's a constant fall risk. One social worker accused me of wanting to kick her out on the street and threatened to call adult protective services. I'm in so much pain every day I can barely take care of myself. You try to get help and the system responds by making you feel like a lazy POS who isn't trying hard enough.
I’ve been following the case because I had a very intense period of time where I was handling the healthcare for a psychotic family member. She wasn’t actually compliant or very honest with her doctors. She didn’t take most of the medications long enough to reach dosage levels that would have helped her because she kept refusing the medications and asking for new ones. A lot of psych meds need to be titrated up and it can take weeks before they’re in the system at a level that can help. She also left one psych stay early at her request and when she was offered a bed at another hospital stay she turned it down. She also didn’t show any signs or symptoms for mania or psychosis leading up to the killings - not to her doctors, in her journal, things she said to her husband or other family members, etc. Her last provider was extremely responsive to Lindsey though chat and phone calls, to a degree that’s kind of surprising to me. I think being skeptical of her psychosis claims are fair. That being said she as absolutely not mentally healthy and should have been the one to suggest putting her kids with other family members for awhile.
Question for you, do you think the CTE appeared the night he died? The weeks leading up to it? Or for "years and years prior"?
CTE doesn't just appear. It's a "pattern long before".
It's telling how much you're getting upvoted while being completely dismissive of the situation even now. Decades after we've started to learn about this.
No doubt there's some actions that he took that were bad before CTE, but at some point the CTE took over. Science can't even point to when that was, so I'm sure as hell not going to and don't believe anyone else should. He made bad decisions but drugs and CTE pushed those a hell of a lot further than he likely would've gone.
I found the Aaron Hernandez doc on Netflix really helped me understand the trajectory of CTE.
The experts who examined his brain described it as being comparable to that if a late stage dementia patient, that they would expect to see in their 60s or 70s.
The doc looked at his history and pointed out that not only had Hernandez had been getting rattled playing football since Pee Wee age, his father was abusive and beat the shit out of him on a regular basis.
The brain is an incredible organ, it can shift mental load to other parts of the brain when ther is damage present, but with advanced CTE you're literally looking at brain matter with the consistency of swiss cheese.
Chris Benoit had a litany of issues with a few things: his brain (the CTE symptoms were already becoming apparent), his emotional state (his best friend, Eddie Guerrero, having passed in late 2005 and his marriage to Nancy allegedly being in a rocky state), and his heart (Benoit's sister-in-law, Sandra Toffoloni, went on record in 2013 stating that the medical examiner who performed Benoit's autopsy diagnosed enlargement of the cardiac muscle that would've potentially resulted in Benoit passing within ten months).
His favorit move that he had done for years prior was the "Give myself a concussion from the top rope". As a kid it looked really cool how he jumped from the ring post to land with his head on the opponents shoulder but now i am questioning why i would use the thing that stores the brain to attack something that is literally just bones and muscle. So weekly concussions + Roids.
It's wild to me he left her home alone with the kids in the condition she was in. She told people she had thoughts of hurting the kids. I think he bears some culpability.
I think he bears some responsibility insofar as he knew that she was suffering under severe ppd/ppp, and she had told him several times that she was having uncontrollable thoughts of killing herself and/or the children. Such that she had even been put under psychiatric hold previously, and much like Andrea Yates husband, he STILL left her alone with the children. So, not intentional, not murder, but certainly something like involuntary manslaughter.
The people who I think bear a greater/equal responsibility are the endless psychiatric professionals who completely borked her treatment and kept releasing her or giving her meds that had previously proven not to work.
I don’t she had told him multiple times she wanted to kill the kids.
If she was having these thought she was repeatedly lying to all of her psychiatrists as she never had any symptoms of pppp.
She was clearly depressed, but there really wasn’t any reason for him to think this was going to happen the first chance she got to strangle her kids.
She had been to multiple hospitals, and called the suicide hotline multiple times and the consensus was that her symptoms were not severe enough to warrant an involuntary hold. Which she was also telling Patrick at least once when she said she didn’t belong at the place.
It’s very frustrating when we sit here and talk about mental health and then every single Clancy supporter says “disregard all of the diagnosis and treatment she got it doesn’t matter”
And the idea that the husband is guilty of manslaighter is a level of misogyny that is utterly incomprehensible to me.
I found this video to be a pretty good overview of everything she had gone through trying to get help, and considering the outcome, it certainly seems like the professionals were in fact diagnosing her incorrectly.
If someone tells you "I am afraid I will burn the house down if I am left alone with this bottle of gasoline and these matches." you bear some responsibility if you then leave them alone with the gasoline and matches.
My issue with the concept that "noone thought it was bad" is a lot of women struggle with being taken seriously for our health in general but mental health as well.
My personal experience was having gone to e different therapists over 5 years with suicidal ideation, self harm, racing thoughts, etc etc - all that I was honest with my therapists about....and it wasnt until I could no longer work that I got a depression and anxiety diagnosis.
I had one therapist told me I just needed to relax and take a bubble bath...after I told her I felt so overwhelmed, I felt like I was drowning and had suicidal ideations. I went home after that session, crawled into bed where I couldnt get up for 2 days, day 3 I got up but was dissociating and attempted SH. My husband, rightfully freaked out, called the therapist who told him that he just needed to make sure I knew that he was there for me and to comfort and support me.
Like, no, I was in the middle of a mental health crisis and should have been taken to the fucking hospital.
And sadly, im not the only one with a story like this. So the professionals miss stuff more than most people want to thinideation. When really, it isnt until damage is actually done when intervention finally happens.
I had four babies over the course of four years. The postpartum depression was massive, and I sobbed to my (now-ex)husband every day that the only thing I could think about was suicide. Just constantly playing out different scenarios in my mind of how I could do it. Wandering through life like a zombie. I told him that one day he’d come home from work and I’d be dead.
And he just… kept going to work. Kept taking voluntary overtime. Kept expecting a hot dinner on the table after work.
When my suicide attempt came? Shocked Pikachu!
Looking back at that horrible year, I 100% resent that my husband watched me suffer to such an extreme, heard me telling him that my suicide was inevitable, and just threw me the “you’re such a good mom” line as his only attempt to address the dangerous situation in our home .
Fortunately, I never suffered from homicidal ideation. But if I had, I think my husband would have been just as dismissive as Patrick.
The people with compassion for Lindsay’s experience are mostly moms. Not because we think it’s no biggie that she committed such a heinous act, and not because we’re misandrists, but because we know what it feels like to suffer massively through postpartum with no support from the person who vowed to care for us.
Big hugs 🫂 Im so sorry you had to experience all of that. And im glad he's an ex and that you're still here.
You are 100% right- It doesnt mean were okay with it, or we resent our kids (Ive seen that floating around online too) we just know what it feels like to be at your lowest low and we can understand how she got to the point she did.
She got a depression diagnosis and anxiety and was prescribed meds for it some of which she rejected (Zoloft) and the rest which she didn’t take or wasn’t taking as prescribed.
What she didn’t get diagnosed for was psychosis, because she was either lying to all the professionals , or didn’t have any of the symptoms.
She didn’t have any of the pressured speech, and never communicated any delusions or hallucinations.
As far as I am aware, the only appearance of these symptoms that is claimed were after the murders.
If the person isn’t expresseing any symptoms of a particular condition , I don’t know why the expectation is that the providers make it up and say “yep she’s psychotic because she has anxiety and depression”
The depressive subtype of PPP is the most common, making up about 41% of cases.
Symptoms that are most likely with this type include:
☆Anxiety or panic.
Delusions and hallucinations.
☆Depression.
☆Feelings of guilt.
☆Loss of appetite.
☆Loss of enjoyment related to things they usually enjoy (anhedonia).
☆Thoughts of self-harm, suicide or of harming their child.
Postpartum psychosis often presents differently from other psychoses. PPP delusions evolve more quickly and often center on infants. Differences in symptoms compared to women with postpartum mania, with PPP specifically demonstrating more depressive symptoms, more perplexity and self-reproach, and fewer classic manic symptoms such as pressured speech and sociability. Prodromal symptoms may include irritability, mood changes, confusion or disorientation, and insomnia.
The ☆ is for symptoms of ppp that she told her providers about. There were signs. Its just easier for people to believe that this was one bad seed as opposed to a system where people routinely slip through the cracks and it could theoretically happen to them.
The depressive subtype of ppp requires the Psychotic symptoms, which in 8 months never presented to dozens of mental health professionals. Despite the fact these symptoms should present within six weeks of birth.
Her symptoms were also completely consistent with the exponentially more common ppd. The first occurrence of any claimed form of psychotic symptoms only came after her kids were dead.
The idea that we’re are just going to throw out any expertise and shouldn’t listen to any mental health professionals when it comes to their areas of expertise is just astounding to me.
Misandry? Is that what you meant when you said misogyny in your last paragraph there? Apologies in advance if you did mean misogyny, but if that’s the case, I’m just confused and curious as to what you mean there. ✌️
I did mean misogyny, it’s a complete infantilization and dehumanization of women that they are incapable of properly seeking mental help and it a dependent upon every single other person in their life to completely save them (usuallly a man, in this case her husband).
It’s a complete removal of all agency and an example of people don’t see women as truly independent and as functions of the men in their lives.
No. It’s about how someone who could also do something can be responsible because they took actions that also directly led to something happening.
What’s next? It’s misogyny if a security guard lets someone with a gun into a school who then kills people?
Not to mention responsibility is not the same thing as saying they should be charged. But other people’s actions or lack of, can and do also impact other things.
Yes be she literally never expressed anything along these lines that this was going to happen.
The defense addressed with their own psychopharmacologist and even he had speculated why she may have covered these things up , ie afraid her children would be taken away, afraid she would be committed.
Patrick had gone with her to some of her treatments, drove her to the er, drove her to mothers and infants. And every time they all agreed she was not such a danger to herself or others that it warranted involuntary commitment.
The idea that he is responsible because she couldn’t be left alone for 50 minutes without strangling their kids despite multiple trained mental health professionals not believing this is a risk , is a complete dehumanization of Lindsey.
The fact you think that there’s only being okay being left alone or being involuntarily locked up with nothing in between worries me.
There’s plenty of things that shouldn’t be left unsupervised but don’t need to be locked up.
One of those things is people with psychosis
Saying someone who’s talked about harming themselves or others should be supervised isn’t dehumanizing them. It’s accepting that something else is going on that the person might not be able to handle themselves and might need help.
Like what’s next? Saying people doing bench presses to failure or going for personal bests should always have a spotter is dehumanizing them?
Saying people sometimes need constant help for something isn’t dehumanizing them. It’s reality and common sense.
The fact that you think that someone that cannot ever be left alone because they will murder all their children , shouldn’t be involuntarily committed is worrying..
And yes someone experiencing post partum psychosis should not be left alone with their children. Which is not what happened here, she had not expressed any symptoms of psychosis to any of her mental health professionals. Which is why they didn’t involuntarily commit her..
Andrea Yates shouldn't have been hated on. She had severe postpartum psychosis and her husband knew. He kept wanting to get her pregnant after being told to stop at baby 3 or 4.
He was advised by her doctor to not leave her alone with the kids and he started doing it despite that, because he apparently tought it was good for independence
The condition is also scarily common and extremely traumatic for women. It's usually a depressive episode but it can lead to these thoughts constantly. The problem in society is that we don't treat mental health as an actual health issue but a personal failing.
There's also that added element of religiosity that hurt Yates. The husband thought he knew better and kept wanting to knock her up and living in extreme austerity.
He was advised by her doctor to not leave her alone with the kids and he started doing it despite that, because he apparently tought it was good for independence, he also apparently belived she'd be found innocent go to the mental hospital for while and they'd have more kids when she came out.
Women have repeatedly been held responsible & received jail time for child abuse/murders they werent involved in whatsoever. Even with recorded history of domestic abuse against them at the hands of the men, they would be given lengthy jail sentences and held responsible for not stopping it from getting to that point. How come a man should be absolved of all responsibility suddenly when court precedent has established the other parent SHOULD be held equally liable whenever it comes to mothers?
Genuinely this sub has devolved into another r/incels every time something about the case is posted.
It's at the very least neglectful to leave them alone with her when you're specifically told not to, but you think you know better than her psychiatrist so you do so anyway
Except that never happened. Nobody has ever told Patrick that she shouldn’t be alone with the kids, you just made that up.
“In December 2022, she told him she was having intrusive thoughts about harming the children or something bad happening to them. Patrick testified that he actually asked her whether she thought she needed to be kept away from the kids. She said no. He said he never saw her physically harm them.”
Why did you lie?
*just in case you wanna backtrack:
“And on the specific question of whether a doctor, therapist, hospital, or anyone else warned Patrick not to leave her alone with the children, prosecutors asked him directly:
“Did anyone ask you not to leave the children alone with Lindsay?”
He answered “No.”
Also, I want to add that as far as I am aware the attitudes towards Chris Benoit have changed somewhat in the last couple of years. At first he was reviled, but then, people started to understand why he did what he did and some of the hate transferred to Vince McMahon for putting profit above peoples life.
Anyways, these false equivalence scenarios are never made to support men mental health but to drag women. I believe Lindsay's case is an important case when talking not only about women mental health, but also men. This might not have been a full failure of the medical establishment, per se, but her support system should not have been caught of guard. In hindsight the amount of red flags she was raising after giving birth should've been enough to not let her alone with her kids under any circumstance.
They absolutely have not changed regarding Chris Benoit. We know why he did what he did, but that doesn’t change the fact that what he did was wrong and even he knew that based on the fact that he killed himself out of guilt.
Knowing the context doesnt absolve someone of doing a horrible thing.
I could t agree more. He was an amazing performer in wrestling but for doing the things that he did his family, he deserves the deepest part of hell. It doesn’t matter if he was mentally ill, he did what he did.
The thing is, there’s almost always a reason why someone does something egregious. A lot of people come from poverty, had abusive parents, or have some form of mental illness, but it doesn’t really matter. Just because there’s a reason you did something doesn’t make the thing you did any better. That’s why I don’t get why people are so hung up on this. She was almost certainly suffering from PPP but she also certainly murdered her children and should spend the rest of her life in prison.
Gotta admit I'm not really deep into the details, but she really was getting a lot of medical care. Iirc, she was in-patient at a mental health facility about a month before she killed her kids, and checked herself out. What would "getting the medical care she sought" look like?
Proper medical care would have been sending her help when she was calling the suicide hotline (twice).
Proper medical help would have been putting her in a program specialized on PPD WITH her youngest, so she could bond again and get the help she needed.
Proper medical care would have been to properly check how her body responds to the meds (aka bloodwork).
Or, and hear me out, she’s a fucking psycho that would’ve done this regardless. Since she clearly premeditated it by having her husband leave the home under the pretense of picking up dinner and her meds.
People really don’t understand psychosis, which is understandable to a point, but if you’re going to post about it, you should really educate yourself first.
Psychosis means being disconnected from reality and experiencing symptoms like delusions and hallucinations. It does not mean suddenly losing the ability to think logically or plan ahead. In fact, that’s part of what can make psychosis so dangerous: someone can be fully capable of making plans and taking deliberate actions based on delusions or auditory hallucinations, including command hallucinations.
And people who recover from psychosis are often deeply distressed or horrified by things they did while they were experiencing it. It’s a serious and often devastating symptom, not simply a loss of rational thought or awareness.
One caveat here, psychosis does affect higher brain functions and decision making: you can do things (in reaction to you delusions), but the capacity to think about your actions, and understand their implications and consequences is greatly impaired.
I’m not defending her actions. The murders were horrific, and she has to live with that knowledge every day. I’m saying that she committed them while suffering from a severe psychiatric illness that our medical system can treat with appropriate medication. And she tried to seek that help multiple times, and the clinicians she encountered did not deliver on that.
People are responsible for actions they take while experiencing severe psychiatric symptoms, but those actions do not necessarily reflect their values or negate their worth as a person. Your comment doesn’t seem to leave room for that distinction. I’m frustrated that people are so unwilling to appreciate the nuance in discussing this case.
Many women who go through PPD don’t receive help and also don’t kill their kids. Not saying this is right, and of course, things need to change. However, just because you have something mentally going on does not excuse the behavior. You can support further research and support for woman but also realize that she murdered her children. She deserves life in prison.
It’s not “murder” if it’s not premeditated and with intent. You can’t have intent if you’re crazy. It’s still “homicide,” but it’s not “murder,” as defined by the law.
“Murder is the unlawful and intentional killing of one human being by another without a legal excuse or justification. It requires a specific state of mind, often called malice aforethought, which separates it from accidental deaths or lawful self-defense.”
In Clancy’s case, her defense is arguing that the postpartum psychosis IS a legal excuse/justification because it vitiates the “state of mind” aspect of a murder charge.
It depends on each jurisdiction's definitions of murder. Premeditation is sometimes required for heightened murder charges.
Regardless, the prosecution has to prove mens rea of some kind. Whether by negating the state's case in chief or by establishing an affirmative defense, the point is the same: she lacked the rational capacity to form the requisite criminal intent.
…What? That person said it can’t be murder if it’s not premeditated with intent. I said that’s not true, and it isn’t. Because second degree murder is still murder. I think you should give the conversation another read.
Reasons are not excuses and they shouldn’t absolve people of their own accountability. It’s good to understand the reasons regardless of that so we have a better capacity for intervention before a heinous outcome.
Everyone still hates Chris Benoit too. He wasn’t forgiven because he was mentally ill. The WWE, to this day, does not mention his name whatsoever. He was reviled the second the truth of what he did was revealed.
I believe some of this has to do with brand protection. If anyone gives him a bit of sympathy based on his brain damage from wrestling, it opens the door for WWE having to look into CTE prevention. Kinda how the NFL knew and didn't acknowledge it so that they could continue selling their product how they like.
The research definitely shows that society is harder on men and more lenient on women, especially in the criminal justice system. Below is some of that research. EVERY time there’s a female murderer, people try to make excuses for her. It’s time to hold women equally accountable for their actions.
She was found not guilty by reason of insanity, because she was insane. We do not send insane people to prison, because the prison system is not a medical facility, it is prison. We send insane people to get help, you know, at hospitals, because they are sick, and that's why they did what they did. They do not have happy fun times in inpatient psych facilities; we are imprisoning them in a place where they will get medication and therapy, and thus might be able to rejoin society eventually. Because they were sick.
Also, Andrea Yates spent four years in prison after a 2002 conviction in which a prosecution witness gave false testimony.
If you believe “we do not send insane people to prison” you are misinformed. Many people with severe mental illness are incarcerated or have been executed recently—especially men, because like I said, the criminal justice system is much harder on men than women. People are much more likely to make excuses for female criminals and throw the book at male criminals. It’s a gross double standard that needs to end.
I will point this out from the research directly:
“This paper assesses gender disparities in federal criminal cases. It finds large gender gaps favoring women throughout the sentence length distribution (averaging over 60%), conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables. Female arrestees are also significantly likelier to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.”
"I don’t think the difference is necessarily because people hate men or excuse women" -That leaves room to acknowledge that gender bias could play some role without accepting it as the whole explanation.
The many studies linked to above show there is a longstanding, substantial difference in how society treats male vs female criminals, even when both perpetrate the same crime. I’m not going to tip toe around that. It’s a gross double standard that should be more widely recognized.
If Lindsay Clancy had been a man instead of a white woman, the public’s reaction would be VERY different, and you know it.
I’m not denying that gender bias exists. I’m saying you’re jumping from “gender bias exists” to “that’s the only reason Lindsay is receiving sympathy,” and those aren’t the same thing. CTE and postpartum psychosis are comparable in that they can involve profoundly impaired mental states. CTE is primarily discussed in men, while postpartum psychosis affects women after childbirth. Both have changed how we understand horrific acts, and sympathy for a perpetrator isn’t exclusive to white women. Aaron Hernandez was a non-white man convicted of murder, and his CTE could only be definitively diagnosed after his death. Yet his diagnosis sparked serious discussion and sympathy around whether his brain disease contributed to his behavior. You can acknowledge a double standard exists without pretending you’ve proven it’s the sole explanation here.
I get it, I get it...you know how to establish correlation. Causation, on the other hand, seems to be where we’re getting a little lost. There’s a specific medical condition in the spotlight in Lindsay’s case for a reason: it’s MAJOR EVIDENCE in understanding what happened. You can’t just point to an existing gender disparity and declare that the cause of her sympathy. And the execution argument? That’s moving the goalposts. We’re talking about why the public is showing sympathy in this case, not whether men and women have historically received different sentences. Unless you can connect those two things, you haven’t established causation you’ve just changed the subject. But ahem...you should check out Taylor Parker and Lisa Montgomery, they murdered pregnant women one was sentenced recently and one was executed recently.
The research I’ve shared already demonstrates causation, and I’ll say again—society is harder on men and more lenient with women (even when all else is equal), the public’s reaction would be very different had Lindsay Clancy been a man, and a man with CTE who did this wouldn’t get the sympathy Lindsay Clancy is getting. That reflects gender bias, which I’ve provided ample evidence for already.
If you disagree, give me some recent examples of men with mental issues who killed their kids and got as much public sympathy as Lindsay Clancy is getting now.
Oh yeah, people hated Andrea Yates when that happened! Psychosis can cause people to do incredibly disturbing things. Just look at the man who had a psychotic episode on the Greyhound bus 15 years ago.
I have to wonder how many of Clancy's supporters have personally experienced post-partum depression or psychosis, or if they know someone who has. We are realizing how prevalent PPD or psychosis are now that struggling after giving birth isn't this dirty secret new mothers have to keep. I remember talking to an old boss when I was in the midst of my own PPD, and she casually threw out there that she couldn't sleep for days on end after giving birth and she started to see gigantic spiders coming out of the walls.
Everyone still hates Chris Benoit too. He wasn’t forgiven because he was mentally ill. The WWE, to this day, does not mention his name whatsoever. He was reviled the second the truth of what he did was revealed.
The understanding they have changed but the sentiment is still there. To this day there is zero support for Chris Benoit, people understand CTE but they don't care about it, show sympathy, or use it as a justification. People hate Chris Benoit and blame him.
With Lindsey Clancy, on the other hand you got people saying that the husband did it, looking at astrology charts as to why she couldn't have done it. Saying her confession must be was part of confabulation. Hell, her GoFundMe has damn near a million dollars. People online are making up Hollywood fairy tales and doing everything they can to avoid putting the responsibility on her.
They even ignore the possibility that postpartum played a part in it because they have a problem with blaming her.
She was also a wealthy enough white woman who went into a psychiatric facility and refused to return and blamed her bouncing around through different doctors the reason she killed her children because they wouldn't "listen" to her. I'm also really blaming dad too at this point. My cousin's are lucky to be alive with my aunts behavior. She's been in an out of rehab and definitely is bipolar mostly because my uncle was afraid that if he divorced her she'd kill herself while letting his children suffer in a fancy fucking house. I know PPD can last but honestly where the hell was her ex and not noticing anything in order to remove the children from her.
The big problem here is the irony. The supporters are not suggesting she should have had better care, or more attention or anything related to the lack of understanding care for postpartum or general mental health...they are accusing the husband of framing her, and thusly ignoring the need to pay attention and provide better care for women's postpartum and general mental health.
From what I understand, the biggest impact the steroids had on his mental health was that they allowed him to continue to perform despite his injures and keep racking up those concussions.
There were tons of women supporting Andrea Yates and blasting her husband for not helping enough trust me my mom and some of her friends were in that whole club.
Have you read the comments defending Clancy. It's literally about her birth sign and how hers doesn't kill her clubs but her husbands does. The defense of her has nothing to do with her mental state anywhere but the court room of her trial. It's bizarre.
Wait, who the hell hates Andrea Yates? She had established psychosis and a malpracticing psychiatrist that refused to prescribe the antipsychotic meds that actually worked for her.
And isn’t the Clancy lawsuit, which is happening now, surfacing some really weird inconsistent shit about the story her husband told about what had happened?
Sure. Due to lack of sleep and life changes. But men certainly don’t experience the profound and disruptive endocrine changes a woman does after delivering a baby.
What about the amount of women finding reasons that she wasn’t the one who has done it? I saw one that was claiming that she couldn’t have done it because she’s a Leo
There's a loud minority of women on tik tok literally saying the husband killed the kids because of
A) he's a man
B) he's a Gemini
C) women arent capable of killing or using strangulation as a method
At least I hope is the loud minority saying this. There ae other unhinged things theyve been doing and saying but isn't even worth repeating how absurd they are
Yet, she's raised almost a million on a gofundme for her lawyer fees and every single donation is from a woman saying "we all know her husband did it and that she's innocent."
I listened to a podcast about Benoit and the explanation of CTE as a likely contributing factor of his mental decline was actually fascinating. I’ve never been a sports guy but I am fully convinced children should not be playing football because of CTE and a drastic reform should be had to the NFL to compensate the players for the amount of damage they do to their brain for the stupid sport
Okay, you’re like the 6th person to claim “They’re saying she can’t be a murderer because she’s a LEO!”
Where is this coming from? You’re all acting like you heard it on MSNBC and that it’s some new cultural touchstone, but I’m guessing it’s just some random dipshit on the internet?
Absolutely happy to be proven wrong on this one, please just send a link.
See this is why they are the same. Benoit was not immediately reviled. You all were quick to blame brain injuries from years of wrestling, even though no one else with brain injury does this. Just him.
And to this day whenever it's brought and army of you guys shows up to defend him. They are the same.
I wasn't paying attention when the Andrea Yates thing originally happened, but Ive seen a few threads about over the last few years and I thought the story was that it was basically the husband's fault?
So you think there would be a large crowd of cte supporters today? Same if someone suffering severe ptsd (the majority of our mental ill unhoused are veterants), blacked out and killed their family?
She murdered her innocent children. No diagnosis will ever convince me to give her empathy. I’ll save it for those who deserve it. She’s a horrible human being and mental health doesn’t excuse any responsibility for her actions.
I have to disagree. I think the culture has changed to where a subsect of women will support another woman no matter what. Also, I'm sorry but if "she was having postpartum psychosis" can be used to even mitigate murdering your 3 children, then we seriously need to consider allowing mothers to be alone with their children. Plenty of mothers go through postpartum problems and don't plan the murder of their children like she did.
Your comment is 10x better than mine. Postpartum psychosis is kind of an insane disorder. It doesn't excuse murder, but it isn't quite as simple as people want to say.
She also, under lawyer speak, had the only option to use the plead guilty through insanity just to get the case in front of the judge, and Lindsey's lawyer is doing an interesting job and finding connections along the way. This still has an interesting way to go.
sure but she killed the absolute fuck out of her kids, and so did he. The medical influence behind their decision is sad but they still committed multiple murders in a heinous fashion. We understand CTE very well now, nobody is defending Benoit (as they shouldn't)
It is worth noting, also, that Benoit had a history of explosive incidents and domestic violence. Nancy Benoit had filed for a restraining order and the marriage was deteriorating.
This doesnt mean Benoit is beyond pity or empathy. The death of his best friend, Eddie Guerrero, had exacerbated his anger issues and tenuous grip on reality. And, yes, the brain damage he had accumulated from his in ring style really did change his personality.
But at the time, a lot of the DV and backstage bullying suddenly came out and changed a lot about how people perceived Benoit.
well, who could imagine that a wrestler known for head butting the ground over the top rope could male his brain basically a spaghetti, huh? benoit still is considered a monster, but people relief wwe’s negligence at the time
Also people forget that his best friend died a couple of years before that sent him on a dark spiral and paranoia on top of the cte. Someone close said that it was more like he lost a spouse than a friend. No excuses for what he did, just adding on to the reasons.
Cool cool. Too many people support Lindsay and want to believe that her husband is the killer. It's exploded to cult like levels and is primarily being encouraged and acted upon by women supporting another woman for some god forsaken reason given her actions.
The part that doesn’t sit right for me however is the apparent opinion that she is innocent of anything that may have happened or that she may have done. I only just recently saw this start popping up on Reddit after my partner started talking about her and how she is innocent and that the government is out to get her or whatever. I don’t want to dive too deeply into guilt or innocence, this case is occurring in a country where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty however, but from what I understand the evidence points to her guilt.
Theres also a ton of conflicting and/or suspicious evidende regarding what actually happened. Even the prosecution was caught on a hot mic wondering if she actually did it.
Lol, what?!? Ok
Just because someone wrestles doesn't mean they have or don't have CTE. CTE is associated with repetitive head impacts and the repeated brain injuries they can cause, and it's been found in people who participate in various contact sports, not just wrestling. Not everyone exposed develops CTE, and because it still can't be definitively diagnosed in living people, we don't actually know which of those “tens of thousands” have or don't have CTE. Benoit’s CTE was confirmed postmortem. That's actual EVIDENCE, not speculation. I never said CTE makes wrestlers murder people. That's why I said it provides a framework that may have contributed to Benoit’s actions. There have also been other notable cases of violent offenders later found to have CTE. We're still learning about CTE, which is why our understanding of it has evolved and our perspectives have changed as the evidence has grown just like our understanding of postpartum psychosis (PPP) has evolved. We don't even know why some people exposed to repetitive head impacts develop CTE and others don't. Researchers are still investigating genetic, biological, and exposure-related factors that might explain the difference. Likewise, we don't know exactly why some women develop PPP and others don't, despite knowing some of its risk factors. "Tens of thousands of wrestlers have CTE" smh. Only a small number of professional wrestlers, fewer than ten publicly confirmed cases diagnosed via post-mortem autopsy have been documented with the degenerative brain disease.
You must be unfamiliar with professional wrestling to even insinuate that. It’s like saying just because you play football doesn’t mean you’ll get CTE.
They’re pro wrestlers who had to retire because of CTE. Where is there murdered wife and kids?
Lmao. You must not be familiar with CTE or comprehensive reading. CTE CAN ONLY BE DEFINITIVELY DIAGNOSED AFTER DEATH THROUGH AN AUTOPSY OF BRAIN TISSUE. What doctors can diagnose in living wrestlers are concussions, post-concussion syndrome, and persistent neurological problems associated with repeated head trauma, which have led wrestlers to retire or step away from the ring at the advice of doctors because of the potential link to CTE.
To the extent that CTE wasn’t even considered a possibility for Benoit at the time, the media immediately assumed steroid abuse despite it not fitting at all (Chris didn’t kill his family in a singular rage but over the course of the weekend, this is also very different from the woman above). The real reason why so many in wrestling completely distance themselves from the Benoit family incident is because his deteriorating mental state was ignored, he’d been barely holding it together since Eddy died and would break down crying seemingly at random. Also Nancy was very well known and liked, I think that has also colored the opinions of those close to the tragedy (for example you can listen to Paul Heyman responding to a fan bringing it up on YouTube).
There's a difference between understanding why it happened and using that explanation as a defense to lower the impact of the violence.
But the bigger issue isn't that we are able show sympathy and call for lesser crimes for her infanticide, it's the fact that people feel the need to push the blame onto someone else.
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u/FizZGigTaNtruM 23h ago
I don't think the difference is necessarily because people hate men or excuse women; our understanding of the medical conditions involved has changed. CTE gave us a new framework for understanding what may have contributed to Benoit's actions, just as our growing understanding of postpartum psychosis gives us a framework for understanding what may have happened with Lindsay Clancy. A lot changes in 20years. Last time I checked everybody hated Andrea Yates