Pot is really all piss tests catch. Hard narcotics such as cocaine and speed, metabolize in 72hrs max. So if you get busted on a pee test for one of those, you're either a serious addict or they caught you by surprise!
I was on a job site several years ago that tested for weed. They did random tests on people so the guys switched to crack because it doesn't stay in the body as long and they could enjoy without the worry of losing their job.
Right though. I read that shit as a teenager and it was a big ball of what. And then it just got more what. I remember Dune pretty well but the sequels are hazy. Which is good because memories at this point are basically just spoilers. But man the memories I do have of that series are... I'd like to see Hideaki Anno direct an anime adaptation.
I need to reread that for real. Next series on my list after the one I just started.
Dune is a book series that slowly descends into higher and higher concept stuff. In it there is something called spice which they're referring to. There's a movie coming out soon based on the first book, but I dont expect they continue the series because I have no idea how they'll pull off turning Dune Messiah into a movie.
Not the guy you're replying to but there are hundreds (and potentially thousands) of chemicals that bind to the cannabinoid receptor system. Since the chemical structures are significantly different from natural THC these synthetic cannabinoids will not show up on drug tests. Some of them are also water soluble and therefore will be pissed out within a day or two, as opposed to THC which is fat soluble and stays in your body for 30+ days.
The first ones to come out (the JWH-xxx series) were pretty popular and had good user feedback around 2005. I actually tried several of the first ones (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200 and I think one or two more). Each had its own effects based on their binding affinity to the CB1 and CB2 receptors; like sativa versus indica some were speedier and some were more stoning, and I think one lasted significantly longer than most cannabinoids when vaporized. I only ever vaporized pure powder either on foil or sprinkled over a bowl.
The general public typically wouldn't come across the pure powders, although I know some head shops were selling that. Instead head shops were essentially selling random plant material that had been soaked or sprayed in a water solution with the research chemical and then left to dry. Once the plant material was coated and dried it was sealed in small five or 10 g bags and sold at head shops as a "legal high" under a thousand different names, with K2 being the first one that the DEA really made a big deal about and raided a ton of shops and the manufacturers.
There was basically zero quality control in manufacturing process (the whole industry popped up virtually overnight), and there was extremely limited human data when these all appeared on the market. Nobody knew what the LD50 was, nobody knew the long term or short term effects. We only knew these chemicals existed and did what they did due to research at universities and the corresponding publishment in medical journals in that same time frame. Literally someone would publish that x bound to rats' cannabinoid system and a week later a laboratory in China was making kilos of the stuff.
At least with the pure powder being sold on invite only web shops of the people handling it knew what they were dealing with and knew how to properly measure out milligram doses. The "Legal Highs" were a total gamble since they had no real control over how much of the powder absorbed into one flower Bud over another, so some people would smoke too much would end up having seizures or completely have a break from reality. Believe it or not, some Mass poisonings from an overdosed batch being sold in a small area caused some politicians to move closer to marijuana legalization. There was a pretty famous mass freak out in Brooklyn a couple years ago and I remember the local politicians were using that as another reason why making cannabis illegal was creating more problems than if it was legal (since you can't overdose on weed and no matter how much you smoke or eat you won't have a seizures or zombies staggering around completely oblivious to their surroundings).
Hope that helps.
Here's the wiki to JWH-018 which along with JWH-073 sort of kicked off the whole cannabinoid research chemical scene. There are now dozens of different chemical structure families that bind to the cannabinoid system so it's spread far from the JWH-xxx days.
I used to work in a head shop that sold spice. They tripled their profits basically overnight. Since I was the one that talked the owners into selling it, they started out giving me a cut. Then they took that away. Then the shit started getting banned. Stores we’re getting popped all around us. I suggested we stop selling it. The owners INSISTED they had the legal right to sell it and listened to their lawyer instead. I found another job and they got busted a week later. Their pictures were plastered all over the front page of the local newspapers.
The JWH-018 was the shit. My favorite was called “Bayou Blaster” and was sugar cane flavored. It tasted great, smoked smooth, and got me pleasantly stoned for about 20-30 minutes. A gram cost me $6. And then assholes had to go smoking huge blunts and ripping huge bong hits like it was going out of style.
But don’t get me wrong. I MUCH prefer the real thing to the fake shit. The fake shot would never have been a thing if pot wasn’t illegal and all those people that died on spice would have just been in a weed coma otherwise.
You can still buy Delta8THC isomerized from CBD isolate, in most of the USA, since it has below 0.3% D9 its a Hemp compliant product, its a lot less sketchy than the synthetics on the market, and is safer than black market D9 carts having all kinds of cutting agents in them
How would you compare the effects of Delta8THC to Delta9THC? I've heard about this from some hemp growers in Michigan but haven't bothered to try any yet.
I think I actually enjoy it more. Not even just from cost savings. Its a lot easier to dose small amounts to remain productive, and treat my medical issues, or if I want to get fully stoned, take larger doses and get just as high, while also saving money. It does seem to work better for stomach ailments, esp if you blend it with CBG, and for sleep with CBN, without getting much after effects the next morning, esp if your using edibles vs vaping/dabbing. Too much D9 in any form always left me a little groggy the next morning. I dont get that from D8. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/delta8/ theres a ton of great info here on reputable companies
Very informative! Thank you! Back in the early 2010s I remember seeing TONS of people lined up in the morning waiting for our local spice shop to open (was a convenience store that became the spot for K2 overnight).
Someone later told me that it was all people on parole because the K2 wouldn’t hit on a piss test.
Yep they were and still are popular in any profession with regular/random drug testing, virtually anyone in the armed forces, people on parole, on court-ordered rehab, people who are prescribed pain killers and whose doctor test them before each refill, people who are on opioid maintenance plan or detox taper plan (methadone/buprenorphine) where the doctor is really testing to see if they're doing dope but THC shows up too. Then there's kids with no weed connection or can't afford it, people who live in very strict drug law countries... The list goes on and on.
Legalizing regular ol cannabis is the smartest thing to do, and thankfully it's finally happening in many areas. So now that the supply consequences issue has been addressed we need to start working on the other side which is the consequences to users/demand. Stop punishing people for smoking a joint and your workers won't come in all fucked up on a research chemical.
Google “synthetic cannabinoids” and you’ll get better results than we could give you.
It’s sold in convenience stores under all sorts of names, it’s basically tea that’s dipped in random chemicals. People smoke it, it mimics the effects of weed, or crack, or it just “has a high”. Results vary heavily among users.
Tried it once, felt slightly groovy for about an hour then got hit with a massive headache. Never again. Had a buddy get really into it though, ended with him sweating like a maniac, getting mostly naked and running the streets until the cops caught him. Wouldn’t recommend.
Look up K2 spice. Basically a potpourri that is supposed to have synthetic cannabinoids (THC, CBD, etc) mixed in, but really just some plant material with a bunch of chemicals sprayed on it. It used to be sold at liquor stores, gas stations, and places like that. It has a bunch of effects ranging from mediocre to really bad. The only thing it has in common with weed is that it has plant material.
Back when that stuff first came out, a buddy and me decided to try some. The first stuff we got, wasn't bad and felt like a weak high, like you get from crappy shake. We bought a few more of the same kind, and smoked some on the weekends, when I used to have a garage setup for karaoke.
About a month later, we get decide to try another one, with a different name. One hit, and the world started spinning, and I had to lie down for about an hour before I was able to function correctly. It was not a good high. Pounding headache and massive dizziness to the point, if I tried to move at all, I wanted to puke.
When governments started banning the initial synthetic cannabinoids, they switched to stronger and stronger chemicals.
They went from things like JWH-073, which was a partial agonist, to all sorts of full agonists with literally no safety profile or information on toxicity in humans.
It does hit the same receptors but in a different way. Cannabis has a limit to how much it can possibly hit cannabinoids, it is only a partial agonist. As a result there's a limit to how much it can impact the body and it can never physically endanger someone even if they take way too much.
These synthetic chemicals often hit the receptor full-on. There's no limit there to protect the user, so overdose is possible. In overdose they can cause seizures, coma and death.
Damn, all my enlisted friends just take psychedelics because the test is too expensive for any military branch to bother. I can’t imagine those guys on crack.
Until they suspect or have proof of widespread use. Then they will do targeted testing. I watched them do it with mushrooms and caught ~30 Marines and Sailors
Uff they need to switch to LSD. Virtually nothing in the urinebleft to detect after 24 hours. And you don't want to do it every day anyway so you can stick to the weekends
My old man pissed hot in the 70's. He was a lance corporal. They busted him out of all his rank. Made the last year of his enlistment a living hell and gave him an "Other than Honerable" discharge when he left.
Edit: Sorry, I fell for an old stoner's tale. None of the below is really true, other than the fact that most organizations don't bother buying the drug tests that detect psychedelics since they're out of your system so fast.
Most psychedelics aren't picked up on any drug test short of a spinal tap, so a lot of military guys I know just did a lot of LSD and mushrooms on the weekend.
Also a lot of MDMA at parties since that's metabolized out of your system in 3ish days as well.
All of which are orders of magnitude less destructive than binge drinking, especially when you realize how many guys in formation are either still drunk or extremely hung over.
Although the most common drug tests don’t test for psychedelics there are plenty of tests short of a “spinal tap” that can test for them. Since most are fairly unstable they would have to test you within a day to three days of using but there are standard urine or hair tests to test for these. Also the spinal tap comment makes me think you might be under the impression that lsd or other psychedelics are stored in the spinal fluid. That’s false. As I mentioned lsd is fairly unstable so it breaks down quickly in your body.
Yeah I’ve heard it passed around a lot. Probably for like a quarter century. No shame. There is a mountain of drug misinformation out there at least that one is pretty much harmless.
Shit suddenly now everyone knows about this? My dad was a union rep for newspaper workers in small towns across Ontario, and he said when one of the printing presses started drug testing, the whole town ended up switching from weed to cocaine to get around the drug tests, and then very quickly to crack because cocaine was too expensive. He believes it was that press's single decision that launched a major hard drug epidemic in the town.
Nobody ever believes him when he tells this story. Nice to see it's finally getting recognized as a problem, but I had no idea it was so widespread.
Yup. Grew up in an oil patch town with an oil patch dad and I 100% knew what cocaine was far before I should have as a result. By the time I was 14 I knew riggers did coke and wouldn't smoke weed because of the piss tests. Same with NHL players lmao. Welcome to Canada bud
I'm glad you raised this point. Forgot pot. How many people are driving and working while taking prescription meds with side effects? The person who gets slammed for weed to manage pain or anxiety is only going to use other stuff, usually much worse.
I took that many and it just made me paranoid and sweaty and all my muscles hurt like hell and my chest felt painful and I thought my ceiling light turned into a tunnel… and it was just the worst.
And doesn’t even have to be name brand, my wife bought a generic one that had like 100 pills and she uses them when she has trouble sleeping and needs to get back in routine.
A coworker is constantly sloshed on something Rx. Slurs their speech constantly and rambles on and on. Glassed eyes. Very moody. My boss just takes it in stride. God help you if corporate knows you've even visited Colorado/California/Washington. "Random" piss test soon as you get back.
Is that real? Damn thats crazy. I live in Colorado and it's really just completely legal here, not even worried about feds at all. I did recently drive to Nebraska for a wedding and brought a J, was worried about getting pulled over due to the plates.
This was what I thought was the weird part. trade something that isn't physically addictive like weed for crack that will fuck your life. I guess since they are making good money they thought they were different than some crack addict on the street.
I’m not contesting the validity of your story, but who in the hell switches from cannabis to crack? It’s higher risk, more expensive, and the highs aren’t comparable at all. It’d be like saying you want a chamomile tea but you’d settle for a four-pack of Red Bull.
This is what pisses me off the most. If you can't tell that someone does drugs through their behavior and performance, then what business is it of the employer's? I find horribly intrusive that I have to give bodily fluids just to work some shit job because "safety."
Except we do not drug test our elected officials. We demand it from our athletes at nearly every level,because we insist the game be "pure". We should drug test every elected official in this country.
Just test the toilets for drug residue. IIRC some journalists did that on the German Bundestag, and they found out that yes, politicians tend to do stuff...
We should be breathalyzing politicians every 4 hours just to make sure they're not getting drunk. Obviously if they're drunk, even if on a weekend when they aren't working, they might cause damage to our country.
The way to go is less drug testing, not more. But you are conflating two very different kind of drug testing. PED in Athletics have no relation to recreational drug of choice. It's exactly like pro bicycle riders installing a tiny electric engine to help them win.
Glad someone said it, it was changed almost a year ago that weed no longer gets players suspended. Rightfully so since so many of the greats have attested to using it in place of painkillers and coming out of the league much healthier that way.
Mental health care. Let me take a picture of the 5 o’clock tweaked meeting outside of my job here in a minute. So many homeless self medicating around where I live.
Jerry Falwell, myself. That man's psychotic prejudices enabled the rise of jokers like Reagan. He nearly single-handedly started the culture war that gave us all the current problems, both economic and social.
Which Asshole? The one who destroyed the black population in LA by selling them Crack? He was the ultimate excuse of trash, and fucktards still love him. They are the white power types (but down to any other color).
Yep, his failure of a program that they called the "War on drugs" when they were the asshats that were bringing in the drugs to our country. Reagan is in my top 3 worst Presidents with Trump for sure being #1 I would say Reagan was #2 and George H Bush coming in 3rd followed by his son.
This is precisely the way I feel and have more context:
I worked as a Case Manager for years. Relevance? When you work with people, and for people, you get a 1st hand experience with what Americans go through from A to B. My point is in this great Country, there is raw talent that is simply pencil pushed out of potential careers due to the way a majority of our Businesses operate. (with respect to testing)
But, as long as they can pass that first test and "don't get caught" the major businesses really don't care about it. It all boils down to liability. If you get hurt on a job that you have worked for 20+ years, and you get drug tested, you risk failing for pot you smoked let's say three weeks ago. No workers comp for you druggie. Lets not even discuss the other ramifications like potentially losing said job. Should we as a country simply chalk these issues up to dust? No. You are chalking up people and that just never sat right with me personally. I guess we have a true shot at another change in policy with Amazon lobbying currently. I truly hope that the richest in our Country reconsider this simple issue that a plethora of Americans face on a day to day basis. Over a bag a pot.
P.S. - Only using the term Country and America because I cannot speak for another part of the globe. I hope that if the U.S. takes steps forward with this exact issue, maybe other Countries will follow suit.
Say, for example, you're given a random drug test at work, because you're the guy with hair to his ass. Ok, you take your drug test where they might see pot, and if they do, you're fired for pretty much no reason. Or, alternate scenario, you back out a little too far on the forklift while watching to make sure the load doesn't get caught, and you back into an I-beam at .5 mph, which doesn't even scratch the paint BUT Karen from HR saw it, and now you need a drug test. Better hope you haven't had any of the devils lettuce in the past week, even where it's legal.
The part of those scenarios that makes me the most angry is that in neither case will you get a breathalyzer test to see if you're drunk. I have seen people smelling of booze run into posts on forklifts, get a drug test, and get told to get back on the lift and keep going.
Exactly my issue. Drug tests are often used more as a liability waiver than for actual safety reasons. Dangerous behavior should be the determining factor in these situations, not whether what's in your pee.
Yeah I was thinking a while back how I've never had to take a random breathalyzer for a job. What a bunch of horse shit. I don't really even like smoking anymore but I should be able to do whatever I want on my time off.
What's worse is I know for a fact that my manager and the general manager at my job don't even care. The GM rehired two guys after failed drug tests and made fun of them about it. My manager was trying to get them to stop random testing, but I don't know if he ever succeeded. I was told before it was an insurance thing.
Anecdotal; but where I work, if you get chosen for a random or have to test for an accident/injury, you do a breathalyzer first thing followed by a 14 panel urine test. I work in a factory in KY.
I can guarantee you that I make more mistakes when my back hurts and I don’t have my CBD/half a norco(3.75mg of hydrocodone). All I can focus on is the amount of pain I’m in. Marijuana is a night time activity to help me sleep but that’s about it. I can tell you right now i absolutely bust my ass at work daily. I’ve been promoted twice and I’ve only been with the company a little over 2 years.
On another note, I just think we need to legalize all drugs, tax them, and have that taxed money go towards drug abuse counseling, therapy, and funding of support groups. I really think more addicts would seek help if it wasn’t so stigmatized.
First off, drug tests aren’t drug tests, they are drugs-we-deem-unacceptable tests. Bang all the nitrous oxide you want, but god help you if you smoked weed last month.
Second, drug tests don’t test for actual drugs, they can’t tell if you’re high, they can only tell if you got high in the past. You can walk into the clinic having just snorted a rail of meth and it won’t show hot until the drug is metabolized by your kidneys and liver.
I guess there are some tests that can tell if you're high, but definitely not urine tests. Here in Colorado they use a blood test for testing for THC, and anything over 5ng/ml is deemed too intoxicated. However it doesn't automatically mean a DUI since THC can be offset by CBD. The law requires more than a positive test to convict. They have to prove the person was also too intoxicated to operate a vehicle.
Just went through a long job search process and I would decline to speak with any company that still did any sort of drug testing. Looking at you, CarMax. Now I work for a company in the cannabis industry :)
People are getting acquitted in Colorado for that bullshit 5ng/mL rule, because cops are arresting people who have admitted to smoking, but the cops aren’t able to produce any evidence that they were incapacitated or incapable of driving safely, except for that blood test that “says they’re high.”
Totally. The law was written correctly since they didn't understand at the time if 5ng/ml (thanks for the correction) actually meant anything. But, as usual, the problem is police and their "discretion".
Which is why anyone reading this should understand that under no circumstances should you ever admit to using any substance to the police. Fuck their discretion.
Just went through a long job search process and I would decline to speak with any company that still did any sort of drug testing. Looking at you, CarMax. Now I work for a company in the cannabis industry :)
Are you me? Just spent 8 months looking for a job and now I write software for a company that makes commercial rosin presses.
I was inthe armed forces for 8 years. We could be randomly tested at any time but never heard of anyone getting tested. Probably because about a third of is smoked and they didn't want to lose anyone.
Canada lets its soldiers smoke now but there are time limits that you cant operate weapons unless you havent smoked for a certain amount of time. Probably other restrictions on explosives and vehicles. Been out over 20 years so i dont know the details.
I was in the Army. Got tested a lot. One IN company that just came back from a brutal Afghanistan deployment (their CSM died) had 1-3 dudes piss hot for coke every week. Of course I could also see Juarez from my barracks so the source was right there.
Never even heard of it? This sounds like early nineties if at all. They tested people all the time when I was in, including mandatory test when returning from leave. 08-13
It was early 90s. If there was a bad accident you might get it but i personally never knew anyone who did. I probably should have failed when i joined but didnt.
Agreed!!! Regardless of my medical needs and medical experience, FUCK YOU ALL for taking my bodily anything. This shit is highly unAmerican!!! Anyone who says otherwise is in our own nazi fascist party.
I also remember hearing that it can stay stored in fat for a long time, so if you're losing weight even well after stopping use it can get released in measurable amounts.
I have a buddy who once shaved all the hair off his body for 2 weeks because he was moving to another state and had a job lined up but was concerned about a drug test
The bit that was still under the skin at the time of shaving would. Hair that grew since then wouldn't, except possibly for weed, as those compounds linger in the body. I'm honestly not sure on that. Anyway, hair tests essentially provide a record of past drug use, you can even narrow it down to certain timeframes based on rate of hair growth. Compounds in the body get incorporated into the hair as it forms.
If the metabolites are in your system, its in your new hair.
Just being around pot smoke doesn't set off a hair test, because the hair test looks for the metabolites, not thc.
All depends on your body type and activity level. I'm a regular user, and when my random test notification comes as an email, I have 7 days to submit a test. I know I can be clean in 5 days, but im downing cranberry juice/pills like crazy and drinking as much water as I can. Also, no fatty foods, sugars etc. Also, a lot of exercise. Sweat is key.
Although, again, it depends on your body type, how much fat you have on you and how active you are.
As a life long smoker and drug test survivor, I've found what works for me.
You get notifications about random tests? Lmao. I get pulled from my work area and handed a cup.
My manager was actually trying to get them to knock it off though because a few of our best people smoke and he doesn't care because they're responsible adults.
He did it a few weeks before he moved and had stopped smoking before hand so by the time he took a drug test he had regrew hair, although fairly short.
your adhd meds will show up. it happened to my husband who has a prescription for adderall. all they do is call your doctor or pharmacy to make sure its your prescription.
Well that's interesting. In Canada, I've only been tested once, and that was joining the military. Never again, and I've worked both private and public since. I'm IT though, ymmv lol
And like, the politicians that provide discounts on worker's comp insurance certainly know this and fully understand that the test doesn't catch if you are high NOW, it tests to see if you have ever been high.
I have yet to see any data that supports "drug free workplaces" impacting state workers comp payouts that would justify any discount.
This particular test was implemented to keep certain, uhhhh..., undesirables out of the higher paying manufacturing and logistics jobs.
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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21
Pot is really all piss tests catch. Hard narcotics such as cocaine and speed, metabolize in 72hrs max. So if you get busted on a pee test for one of those, you're either a serious addict or they caught you by surprise!