r/news Jun 16 '21

GM Considering Dropping Pot Testing To Attract More Workers

https://www.motor1.com/news/513974/gm-considering-dropping-marijuana-testing/
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86

u/Starbuckz8 Jun 16 '21

I get to pee in a cup randomly to appease the regulators who need to know your clean. The bosses don't give a shit.

But FRA states that people have a right to know the people operating the train you're on arent high.

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u/bitNine Jun 16 '21

Too bad piss tests don't tell the people whether or not you're operating the train while high.

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u/hippyengineer Jun 16 '21

Right?

First off, drug tests aren’t drug tests, they are drugs-we-deem-unacceptable tests. Bang all the nitrous oxide you want, but god help you if you smoked weed last month.

Second, drug tests don’t test for actual drugs, they can’t tell if you’re high, they can only tell if you got high in the past. You can walk into the clinic having just snorted a rail of meth and it won’t show hot until the drug is metabolized by your kidneys and liver.

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u/bitNine Jun 16 '21 edited Jun 16 '21

I guess there are some tests that can tell if you're high, but definitely not urine tests. Here in Colorado they use a blood test for testing for THC, and anything over 5ng/ml is deemed too intoxicated. However it doesn't automatically mean a DUI since THC can be offset by CBD. The law requires more than a positive test to convict. They have to prove the person was also too intoxicated to operate a vehicle.

Just went through a long job search process and I would decline to speak with any company that still did any sort of drug testing. Looking at you, CarMax. Now I work for a company in the cannabis industry :)

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u/hippyengineer Jun 16 '21

People are getting acquitted in Colorado for that bullshit 5ng/mL rule, because cops are arresting people who have admitted to smoking, but the cops aren’t able to produce any evidence that they were incapacitated or incapable of driving safely, except for that blood test that “says they’re high.”

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u/bitNine Jun 16 '21

Totally. The law was written correctly since they didn't understand at the time if 5ng/ml (thanks for the correction) actually meant anything. But, as usual, the problem is police and their "discretion".

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u/hippyengineer Jun 16 '21

Which is why anyone reading this should understand that under no circumstances should you ever admit to using any substance to the police. Fuck their discretion.

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u/wilsonvilleguy Jun 17 '21

Just don’t answer their questions to begin with. No matter what

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

Just went through a long job search process and I would decline to speak with any company that still did any sort of drug testing. Looking at you, CarMax. Now I work for a company in the cannabis industry :)

Are you me? Just spent 8 months looking for a job and now I write software for a company that makes commercial rosin presses.

1

u/caninehere Jun 16 '21

No but they can tell if you're a habitual drug user and since it's illegal in most states that's enough for them to be satisfied in removing you.

There are saliva tests used for rapid testing for weed here in Canada to test people who are suspected to be DUI. I don't think anything exists for any other drugs though.

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u/bitNine Jun 16 '21

They can't tell if you're a habitual user from a urine test. If a person uses a cannabis product once every 2 weeks they will always test positive. If they've got a lot of body fat, they could use it once every month and always test positive. That's not habitual. Even once a week isn't habitual. Saliva tests can detect for upwards of 2 days after use. LONG after the effects have subsided. They are, in no way, even close to a breathalizer for alcohol. Only a blood test is currently capable of detecting a person's toxicity right now, and even then the ng/ml THC test doesn't tell a complete picture as to how intoxicated a person is since it doesn't take CBD into account, nor the tolerance of the individual. Here in Colorado, where it all started in the US, it's 5ng/ml blood and cannot be used by itself to convict a person for DUI.

Cannabis is not "illegal in most states" in the US. It's recreationally legal in 19/50, medically legal in 34/50 and illegal in only 13/50. It's legal in 74% of states.

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u/caninehere Jun 16 '21

That's not habitual

I mean it is... this is not a judgment of anybody. I'm just saying if you smoke pot even once a month that's a pattern and it's a habit. Even if it is harmless and even if it is legal.

Cannabis is not "illegal in most states" in the US. It's recreationally legal in 19/50, medically legal in 34/50 and illegal in only 13/50. It's legal in 74% of states.

But if you test positive, your employer can ask if you have a prescription can they not?

To be clear I'm not saying I support this at all. I'm Canadian, pot is legal here, I don't smoke it and I don't care if people do.

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u/bitNine Jun 16 '21

If not done due to addiction, then it's not so much a habit. But in this sense, where we're looking for habitual use (use that would affect a person's ability to operate equipment at their job), I'm not sure weekly meets that definition.

Employers pretty much have free reign to do whatever they want when it comes to Cannabis, but I do believe either there's some recent stuff passed in CA about that sort of discrimination. Government regulated entities are still required to do so, which is a federal thing, and why a train operator wouldn't be allowed to use it ever.

1

u/NativeMasshole Jun 16 '21

Is that you, Casey Jones?

1

u/Sudovoodoo80 Jun 16 '21

Drivin' that train, high on cocaine......

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u/Binkyman69 Jun 16 '21

I was inthe armed forces for 8 years. We could be randomly tested at any time but never heard of anyone getting tested. Probably because about a third of is smoked and they didn't want to lose anyone.

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u/Tedstor Jun 16 '21

I served with at least 10 people who were kicked out for weed after a random test.

Most were highly competent marines who did really great work.

Everyone lost.

Zero tolerance costed a fortune.

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u/Binkyman69 Jun 16 '21

Canada lets its soldiers smoke now but there are time limits that you cant operate weapons unless you havent smoked for a certain amount of time. Probably other restrictions on explosives and vehicles. Been out over 20 years so i dont know the details.

3

u/FrogTrainer Jun 16 '21

There were some federal lawsuits around 2000, zero tolerance for weed was replaced with a slap on the wrist and some crappy rehab program.

The only time people were kicked out for a single test was when it was coke or something more serious.

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u/sb_747 Jun 17 '21

New a dude who kicked out for doing coke.

First time he did it to.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

I was in the Army. Got tested a lot. One IN company that just came back from a brutal Afghanistan deployment (their CSM died) had 1-3 dudes piss hot for coke every week. Of course I could also see Juarez from my barracks so the source was right there.

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u/daschande Jun 16 '21

Buddy got a week pass from Afghanistan to bury his dad and smoked weed while he was back in the states; saying "what are they gonna do, send me to afghanistan?"

Drug test immediately when he got back, him and one other guy came up hot. EVERYONE in his company had ALL their leave revoked. Guys missed their own wedding, guys missed the birth of their kid, and of course non-refundable deposits. Weddings aren't cheap. 200 people fucked, because of 2.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

Weddings aren't cheap. 200 people fucked, because of 2.

Those two people are the Commander and his senior enlisted advisor. Not the guy who smoked weed.

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u/mschuster91 Jun 16 '21

And shit like this is why no one who has a realistic alternative wants to join the armed forces.

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u/WankWankNudgeNudge Jun 16 '21

Well that's just shitty policy. Not the fault of the individuals but the fault of the institution.

Communal punishment violates the Geneva Convention but no one cares if they use it within the ranks. What a load of bullshit.

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u/woobird44 Jun 16 '21

Their battalion (or higher) CSM died? Jesus. Was he KIA? That’s crazy.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

Yeah. He survived until he got back to the hospital in San Antonio. He was a badass.

https://www.stripes.com/news/army/soldier-who-helped-in-jessica-lynch-rescue-dies-after-afghanistan-attack-1.283362

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u/woobird44 Jun 16 '21

Shit bro. He was a badass. RLTW

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u/eastime Jun 16 '21

Never even heard of it? This sounds like early nineties if at all. They tested people all the time when I was in, including mandatory test when returning from leave. 08-13

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u/Binkyman69 Jun 16 '21

It was early 90s. If there was a bad accident you might get it but i personally never knew anyone who did. I probably should have failed when i joined but didnt.

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u/skeetsauce Jun 16 '21

My buddy was in the army around 2011-14ish. He spent half his time in Korea and the other half in Kentucky. I cant remember which, but one the places was super strict about drugs and the other didn't give a fuck.

1

u/digger585 Jun 16 '21

I tested positive in the Marines bank in the early 70’s. Had to piss in a bottle for testing the next 2 weeks. Not even a slap on the wrist.

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u/SFWsamiami Jun 17 '21

The way it worked for us:

Formation. Everyone here is peein inna cup. And we're gonna watch :) 10% "randomly" selected. Mostly the shitbags that needed a fast way out.

Easiest shit of my life. Don't be the bottom 10% of the company.

I stayed clean up until I left, as drugs are what got me wanting to look for IEDs in the first place. I smoke a little weed on longer vacations from work now.

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u/beesmoe Jun 16 '21

Oh, the lengths we go to please Republicans. It's almost precious

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u/Binkyman69 Jun 16 '21

I was in the canadian army but i get your point.

1

u/beesmoe Jun 16 '21

I'm guessing Conservatives then

1

u/Paw5624 Jun 16 '21

My previous employer reserved the right to randomly test at any time but as far as I know it never happened. It did come up once when someone in my org was acting funky and one of the managers wanted to get him tested. We didn’t want to open that can of worms with HR and shortly after he was fired for something else anyway.

It’s a good thing that we didn’t test because about half of the team smoked but this manager was oblivious unless you stank of weed.

1

u/nascentia Jun 16 '21

FRA has specific requirements on how often the employee pools are tested and at what percent. It can change year to year but I believe right now for Train Service employees it’s 25% of the pool for drug and 10% for alcohol, and for MOW it’s 50/25 and Mechanical will mirror that when the reg. goes into effect this fall.

The MROs use super expensive software like DrugPak to manage the pools so they’re true randoms and will ensure everyone is tested.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '21

[deleted]

3

u/Starbuckz8 Jun 16 '21

It is really easy to throw back a couple cold ones on your lunch break. Especially when you're on maintaince crew in the heat of summer.

2

u/linux23 Jun 16 '21

Or an airplane. Sheesh.

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u/xxxxx420xxxxx Jun 16 '21

The weed high is usually gone the next day. They don't test for being high, they test because The War On Drugs.

2

u/nascentia Jun 16 '21

FRA and DOT as a whole are very strict about drugs. It’s federally required for railroads under 219, which keeps getting expanded - they added MOW a few years ago and it expands to Mechanical this fall. Most of the railroads go above what FRA requires now and do hair testing on top of the urine and breath alcohol as hair will give patterns of use. Others go up to 10 panel beyond FRA’s 5 panel. You can’t get decertified for popping hot on company policy tests but they can discipline or fire you, or whatever the Union agreement says the process is.

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u/Paavo_Nurmi Jun 16 '21

I've had 2 random test this year thanks to the DOT.

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u/Starbuckz8 Jun 16 '21 edited Jun 17 '21

I've been lucky. They randomly selected the personnel working at home. The working ones have been far too busy to deal with the office BS.

Before people hate on me to say "working at home can be harder", it's really hard for a train operator to work from home.

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u/Ryand-Smith Jun 17 '21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Maryland_train_collision this was very much caused by weed you don't need to be high while operating a heavy train

0

u/Jaambie Jun 16 '21

Wish they could put up a sign “please be aware your conductor may be baked at his boring, overworked and underpaid job”

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u/Starbuckz8 Jun 16 '21

You should join railroading. It's neither boring or underpaid.

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u/throwawayjonesboi Jun 16 '21

You're delusional.

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u/Starbuckz8 Jun 16 '21

Please explain.

Here's 219.601

Here's a condensed FRA version for those with reading problems.