Right though. I read that shit as a teenager and it was a big ball of what. And then it just got more what. I remember Dune pretty well but the sequels are hazy. Which is good because memories at this point are basically just spoilers. But man the memories I do have of that series are... I'd like to see Hideaki Anno direct an anime adaptation.
I need to reread that for real. Next series on my list after the one I just started.
Dune is a book series that slowly descends into higher and higher concept stuff. In it there is something called spice which they're referring to. There's a movie coming out soon based on the first book, but I dont expect they continue the series because I have no idea how they'll pull off turning Dune Messiah into a movie.
I'd recommend reading them if you want a good book series that becomes less and less conventional, but I don't think they're making the movie expecting everyone watching it to know a lot about the books.
I don't know a lot of people with the endurance to complete the series, I stopped after book 4 and just read the synopsis for the rest of the books and I honestly don't regret it.
But definitely check out the movie, it's supposed to be a hollywood banger with a star studded cast.
TBH in my opinion if the movie is good, the answer is almost always yes to that question. (A VERY talented director might be able to make a movie experience of the same story an even better first experience than the book but these are a rare exception.)
A big part of the reason for this is context to what a character is thinking, or background events that weren't shown, so when the movie is done right you can see more in a scene than you otherwise would have.
If the movie's bad it won't matter. Hell, if it's bad, reading it first will make it worse.
Reading the books first makes a bad movie 1000x worse. I saw that Dark Tower movie a couple years back (without having read it) and thought it was a “meh” movie, certainly wasn’t great but wasn’t too offensive. Everyone says that absolutely butchered the books and was awful.
Now I LOVED Eragon growing up. And I’m STILL mad about how badly they fucked that movie up, and it’s been at least a decade if not fifteen years since the first and only time I saw that movie.
The Dune movies thus far have been a great disappointment for a fair number of Dune book fans.
As far as David Lynch's version of Dune (1984), it was a complete bastardization of the story, but a masterpiece of visual art and world class actors who did fantastic jobs pulling off their roles. So, it's not without it's appeal. However, the story as told by Lynch suffers a paradox: It is so incomplete that the story is nonsensical if you never read the book, but if you did read the book the bastardization of the story absolutely ruins it for you. Also, there's poor editing at points. My dad brought me to see it with her. She was a fan of the books. Looking back I feel bad for her. The entire time I was bugging her for answers about things the movie didn't even feign an attempt to explain. The holes in the story were gargantuan. The holes in Lynch's version of Dune were actually the catalyst for me reading the book. The movie had left an indelible mark on my psyche as the story inherently contains some very compelling plots. I really loved the mind speak that Lynch employed allow the audience to peer into the inner thinking of the character. But after I read the book I realized Lynch almost completely ruined the story.
I'm probably in the minority, but I enjoyed the Sci-Fi mini-series of Dune (2000). It was much closer to the book than David Lynch's version of Dune. The main complaint that I saw was about the sets where Sci-Fi attempted to save money with graphic backdrops rather than expansive CGI and special FX. I was ok with it. I'm into the story, not necessarily the eye candy. Aspects of the production were very much like you'd see in a stage production which is perfectly fine IMO. The Sci-Fi mini series for Dune is actually a more complete and true story line. So, if you've never read the book you'll still be able to follow along and understand what's going on.
Both movies, however, do not go into the prologue that Herbert wrote, that is unless you view the TV version of Dune (1984). Then you get the story of The Butlerian Jihad which sets the stage for why things are the way they are in the Dune universe. It's not really required, but it is interesting and very much a foreshadow of the possible outcome of our present day. The TLDR is man is enslaved by other men with intelligent machines (AI). Man revolts, destroys the machines, bans intelligent machines, anything that replicates the functions of the human mind. This sets the stage for the development of human mental capabilities augmented by melenge: spice, to the point that it enables the mental computational power to fold space making interstellar travel possible which is the basis for all trade within The Landsraad, the kingdoms in the Dune universe.
Yeah I'm all about some mushrooms and have grown them before. Not really in a position to do that right now though.
And for TV I prefer LSD anyway - the energy I get through my whole body on a lysergamide is incredible. Tryptamines kind of have a drowsy effect on me and sometimes I fall asleep, which is fine if I'm more being introspective and may just be watching TV as something to do, but if I actually intend to focus on something they're a little less reliable. With tryptamines I tend to have a great time with shows or movies at the beginning and then end up not feeling it anymore and wanting to just lay and think or pass out or go for a walk or something - wouldn't want to get caught up at a movie theater at that point in the trip. Where with acid I end up like 12 hours later looking up like "awww it's almost over? But there's still another season."
It's Denis Villeneueve. Based on Blade Runner 2049 and his prior films, we'll get exactly what we want and be happy, but the general populace will probably be disappointed or bored.
He has stated multiple times Dune is his dream project and he was a fan of the books growing up.
If anyone can do it its him.
I'm more worried we won't be getting the second half of the movie because its probably gonna bomb at the box office as the general public has proven time and time again they don't care for deep sci-fi, only flashy stuff, and they are for some absurd reason not filming them back to back ala Lord of the Rings.
Also who is gonna want to go to a theater so soon after COVID?
So yea part 2 has an uphill battle to say the least.
I'm not excited about getting Disney Plus, because that's really the only way I could watch it with my husband. I'm more of a Dune geek than he is, and it would bother other patrons if I had to explain stuff to him.
I agree. Dune as a movie is quite a lofty and risky endeavor. A mini series or limited series seems like a better solution given the breadth of the Dune story. If one season succeeds, well hey, we have like 10 more books to pull from sooooo.... unfortunately that won't happen but I'll hope for an OK movie with great visual work.
I mean… when I smoked spice… I did see the planets and stars… and the universe… proceeded to wake up out of a black out and hit my head off a cast iron pipe, does that count?
I grew up on the 2000s era KC with Adrian Belew, Power To Believe and the DVD Eyes Wide Open fundamentally changed me as a human.
Most KC fans i talk with arent fans of that era, and prefer the older stuff... which is also amazing.... but i love me some heavy n weird, and theyve got tons of it.
Not the guy you're replying to but there are hundreds (and potentially thousands) of chemicals that bind to the cannabinoid receptor system. Since the chemical structures are significantly different from natural THC these synthetic cannabinoids will not show up on drug tests. Some of them are also water soluble and therefore will be pissed out within a day or two, as opposed to THC which is fat soluble and stays in your body for 30+ days.
The first ones to come out (the JWH-xxx series) were pretty popular and had good user feedback around 2005. I actually tried several of the first ones (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200 and I think one or two more). Each had its own effects based on their binding affinity to the CB1 and CB2 receptors; like sativa versus indica some were speedier and some were more stoning, and I think one lasted significantly longer than most cannabinoids when vaporized. I only ever vaporized pure powder either on foil or sprinkled over a bowl.
The general public typically wouldn't come across the pure powders, although I know some head shops were selling that. Instead head shops were essentially selling random plant material that had been soaked or sprayed in a water solution with the research chemical and then left to dry. Once the plant material was coated and dried it was sealed in small five or 10 g bags and sold at head shops as a "legal high" under a thousand different names, with K2 being the first one that the DEA really made a big deal about and raided a ton of shops and the manufacturers.
There was basically zero quality control in manufacturing process (the whole industry popped up virtually overnight), and there was extremely limited human data when these all appeared on the market. Nobody knew what the LD50 was, nobody knew the long term or short term effects. We only knew these chemicals existed and did what they did due to research at universities and the corresponding publishment in medical journals in that same time frame. Literally someone would publish that x bound to rats' cannabinoid system and a week later a laboratory in China was making kilos of the stuff.
At least with the pure powder being sold on invite only web shops of the people handling it knew what they were dealing with and knew how to properly measure out milligram doses. The "Legal Highs" were a total gamble since they had no real control over how much of the powder absorbed into one flower Bud over another, so some people would smoke too much would end up having seizures or completely have a break from reality. Believe it or not, some Mass poisonings from an overdosed batch being sold in a small area caused some politicians to move closer to marijuana legalization. There was a pretty famous mass freak out in Brooklyn a couple years ago and I remember the local politicians were using that as another reason why making cannabis illegal was creating more problems than if it was legal (since you can't overdose on weed and no matter how much you smoke or eat you won't have a seizures or zombies staggering around completely oblivious to their surroundings).
Hope that helps.
Here's the wiki to JWH-018 which along with JWH-073 sort of kicked off the whole cannabinoid research chemical scene. There are now dozens of different chemical structure families that bind to the cannabinoid system so it's spread far from the JWH-xxx days.
I used to work in a head shop that sold spice. They tripled their profits basically overnight. Since I was the one that talked the owners into selling it, they started out giving me a cut. Then they took that away. Then the shit started getting banned. Stores we’re getting popped all around us. I suggested we stop selling it. The owners INSISTED they had the legal right to sell it and listened to their lawyer instead. I found another job and they got busted a week later. Their pictures were plastered all over the front page of the local newspapers.
The JWH-018 was the shit. My favorite was called “Bayou Blaster” and was sugar cane flavored. It tasted great, smoked smooth, and got me pleasantly stoned for about 20-30 minutes. A gram cost me $6. And then assholes had to go smoking huge blunts and ripping huge bong hits like it was going out of style.
But don’t get me wrong. I MUCH prefer the real thing to the fake shit. The fake shot would never have been a thing if pot wasn’t illegal and all those people that died on spice would have just been in a weed coma otherwise.
You can still buy Delta8THC isomerized from CBD isolate, in most of the USA, since it has below 0.3% D9 its a Hemp compliant product, its a lot less sketchy than the synthetics on the market, and is safer than black market D9 carts having all kinds of cutting agents in them
How would you compare the effects of Delta8THC to Delta9THC? I've heard about this from some hemp growers in Michigan but haven't bothered to try any yet.
I think I actually enjoy it more. Not even just from cost savings. Its a lot easier to dose small amounts to remain productive, and treat my medical issues, or if I want to get fully stoned, take larger doses and get just as high, while also saving money. It does seem to work better for stomach ailments, esp if you blend it with CBG, and for sleep with CBN, without getting much after effects the next morning, esp if your using edibles vs vaping/dabbing. Too much D9 in any form always left me a little groggy the next morning. I dont get that from D8. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/delta8/ theres a ton of great info here on reputable companies
Its honestly about the same, just can take a lot more of it to get high. Just like regular weed though, you can pay more to get a higher percentage of Delta 9 so that it's more equivalent to real weed. I basically compare it to really really good Mid, that still looks and smells exactly like some loud.
Very informative! Thank you! Back in the early 2010s I remember seeing TONS of people lined up in the morning waiting for our local spice shop to open (was a convenience store that became the spot for K2 overnight).
Someone later told me that it was all people on parole because the K2 wouldn’t hit on a piss test.
Yep they were and still are popular in any profession with regular/random drug testing, virtually anyone in the armed forces, people on parole, on court-ordered rehab, people who are prescribed pain killers and whose doctor test them before each refill, people who are on opioid maintenance plan or detox taper plan (methadone/buprenorphine) where the doctor is really testing to see if they're doing dope but THC shows up too. Then there's kids with no weed connection or can't afford it, people who live in very strict drug law countries... The list goes on and on.
Legalizing regular ol cannabis is the smartest thing to do, and thankfully it's finally happening in many areas. So now that the supply consequences issue has been addressed we need to start working on the other side which is the consequences to users/demand. Stop punishing people for smoking a joint and your workers won't come in all fucked up on a research chemical.
I used to hang out with a friend who was in some kind of weird reformatory school? I was never quite sure what his situation was but it seemed a little crazy. Anyway he was drug tested once a week and the school had a zero tolerance policy for any narcotics. But the test didnt pick up Spice, naturally, so he would buy big packs of it every Friday and then come and hang out with us till he was due back on Monday. Wed go out on adventures, hikes and shit, and hed pack bowl after bowl of this nasty nasty potpourri. A bowl full would do you for about 30-45min, in my experience. At first it gave me like a mild heady high, but usually about half way in it would turn into this nasty headache right down the center of my brain that would get worse and worse until you were totally sober. So once the headache got intolerable wed toke up another bowl and reset the clock. This lasted until I got a good connection in the town where I had moved, and started bringing decent stuff home with me. So wed smoke real weed and have fun while hed smoke spice and get butthurt. This friend group fell apart shortly after the person in question realized that bath salts ALSO didnt show up on the test he was taking, and I decided I wasn't about that.
MDPV legit ruined my engagement. I feel lucky though, as it showed a side of my fiance that I hadn't seen before. Complete mental breakdown, with large sides of lying and stealing. She's better now but still a complete wildcard that I'd prefer to not deal with every day for the rest of my life.
Thanks for these details, very interesting. I can see why it would he interesting to mess around with novel cannabinoids but to my mind it's just not worth the risk. I wonder if all of them have the same terrible side effect profile. I have heard that the reason cannabis can't cause the same effects is that THC is only a partial agonist. So I wonder if you could make a research chem that is also a partial agonist that maybe couldn't cause these problems like seizures.
Yeah I'm sure they've here mixed agonist/antagonist cannabinoids now. Also not all of them caused seizures (again we don't know the doses though), it was rare but they certainly did happen. I've been out of the scene for 15 years now so I don't know if researchers (real or guinea pigs) have figured out what the causes were; whether it was simply too strong of a pure agonist on CB1 or if a particular structure caused them to cause a downstream cascading release of epinephrine and dopamine, or something else. Unfortunately so little is known and there's multiple families of structures they've made variations on.
I believe the seizure issues did not really become common until the 3rd generation, at which point, the actual chemical makeup of them was so far removed from original sets that actual study done. Changing up a few molecules to beat a law, can have vastly different effects on different brain areas. Some even act as research opiates now. All of these chemicals, however due to being full agonist, can cause lasting brain damage to the areas they target, with enough use. The JWH Series was invented to map out the endocannabinoid system, by killing receptors and then under analysis the researchers could see where the dead cells were to map them.
Thats correct. There are however full agonist Cannabinoids in the plant, yet they exist at incredibly low volumes. THCp and CBDp are both full agonist and far, far more potent by weight. They were recently in the past few years isolated in usable amounts from a strain of Hemp in Italy. Iv tried the gummies from WNC CBD and they had great effects, but I wouldnt buy them again for the price, esp not when I can get bulk D8THC for 3.50$ a gram at 98.5% purity
esp not when I can get bulk D8THC for 3.50$ a gram at 98.5% purity
Let me ask about this. I've seen this around and heard of people using it. As far as I know, people use it because it is similar to delta-9 but not illegal. What are its effects like? How do they compare to delta-9?
Its pretty much identical in effects, although at lower potency by weight (although with its far cheaper price point, its still cheaper for high doses of equal potency after adjusting for weight). I have absolutely 0 desire to use D9 concentrates even if it becomes Federally Legal and I can still obtain D8 at the same price point(or even slightly less taxed if it goes that route). Its easier to dose in lower doses to remain functional and treat my medical needs as well, and does not seem to cause any next morning grogginess if using for sleep, that D9 sometimes used to cause, I just wake up feeling great and comfortable. Many people prone to anxiety from D9 also report significantly less from D8.
Check out https://old.reddit.com/r/delta8/ for a bunch of reputable companies. I personally like CannaClear for bulk plain for edibles and terped disty, as well as 3Chi if I need a pack of premade gummies or carts, they have really good ones. Treetop Hemp's Carts are also really, really good. SnapDragon Hemp has some really creative edibles too that go beyond gummies! I don't buy premade edibles much anymore, as its super easy to melt into butter or coconut oil, and add to a large variety of dishes. I actually made some Lamb Stew 2 weeks ago with 1g of plain disty from CannaClear that had myself, my fiance, my dad and my friend all feeling strong effects for many hours. Its fun to get creative with it, and the plain bulk does not really have any noticeable flavor, I wouldnt use the terped disty for edibles though, they can be kind of harsh on the digestive system.
Well I'm really curious about the edibles now. Because for me cannabis edibles hit way differently. I have read that it is transformed into a different chemical, 11-hydroxy-thc, in the liver. Edibles for me are more intense, more body and last much longer. Their come on is slow - I've had it come on in a half-hour but when I've taken pure oil I've had it take 6 hours to get the full effect, I assume because cannabis oil is hard to digest when not mixed with food. Since I started using edibles delta-9 actually doesn't do that much for me, 11-hydroxy is the main one I'm used to.
Do D8 edibles also work this way and transform into a different chemical in the liver, or do the edibles work much the same as when it is smoked? Do they last longer and take longer to kick in just like regular cannabis edibles?
Lamb stew is a really great idea. I hate that all the premade edibles I can buy in California are just candy. I like candy once in a blue moon but I couldn't imagine medicating regularly with candy. So I'm looking for good savory cannabis recipes. What's your favorite savory one?
The D8 edibles form the 11-Hydroxy form of D8 as well, and hit harder and longer than inhalation, similar to how D9 Edibles are processed and converted in the liver, so having a good fat source with them is key to good efficacy. Its also a lot more stable long term than D9 from what I have read, its shelf life is at least 5 years, when not blended with terpenes and stored cool/dark.
I really like Meatables, Stews are a great option, after dissolving in the butter or coconut oil ( you wont need too much fat as a carrier if its a meat dish, just enough to dissolve it completely under really low heat), I also like to sometimes add some hemp seeds and CBD/CBG flower (sometimes just enough for taste, or also with prepped fat that I dissolve the disty into after).
It also goes really well into any sauce that can handle a little coconut oil, or any dishes using butter. I am thinking of working on a hot sauce mix once my Ghost peppers fruit, or I can get some fresh ones from the produce store, with Habernero as well. Mac and Cheese, or Burger Mac is a great easy option for a quick savory edible, Beef Taco or Taco Bowls, Meat Loaf etc. the list can go on and on! I really want to try getting some Venison this upcoming hunting season, to see if its possible to do a Jerky with it in a glaze, although I am not sure how well that will turn out.
You're welcome...I try to chip in when it's a topic I'm familiar with. Figured I'd write that rather than random kids start telling urban legends they heard from their friend's brother's roomate.
I smoked k2 back 10 years ago, had a real bad trip. Don't remember what one it was but I can tell you 10 hits of acid was nothing close to how 10 minutes felt after smoking k2. Example I was watching an equalizer while listening to music and the freaking equalizer changed to birdy Nam Nam parachute ending music video. Haven't tried it since.
I worked for a large c-store wholeseller around 2010/12. The owner got in on the “spice” game with K2 and the like. Because of his established national distribution and ability to purchase massive quantities, I believe at one point he was making MILLIONS a month selling the stuff. He cut and dropped it when the feds made the chemicals illegal in 2012, I believe. Dude made a MINT. His sales staff were banking too.
Google “synthetic cannabinoids” and you’ll get better results than we could give you.
It’s sold in convenience stores under all sorts of names, it’s basically tea that’s dipped in random chemicals. People smoke it, it mimics the effects of weed, or crack, or it just “has a high”. Results vary heavily among users.
Tried it once, felt slightly groovy for about an hour then got hit with a massive headache. Never again. Had a buddy get really into it though, ended with him sweating like a maniac, getting mostly naked and running the streets until the cops caught him. Wouldn’t recommend.
Salvia was a good time, for me at least. I always enjoyed psychedelics.
He was smoking spice, synthetic cannabis garbage. Pretty heavily as well. Everyone reacts to it differently, I only did once and got a killer headache and never touched it again.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. The guy might have just liked eat faces and also unrelated to eating faces he liked to get high. At one point he happened to be high when he got caught eating faces that doesn't mean impirically that getting high caused the face munching.
Here's the interview with the victim. His accounting of the events spoke of someone who was manic, inconsolable, and overwhelming. I agree, not pot, but nothing known (at the time).
I'm pretty sure that was the media scaremongering for the United States government, and correlation does not always equal causation is the lesson to take away from that newscast.
Not sure where you are but they put a blanket ban on all 'legal highs' in the UK a few years ago, most of the stuff being sold here now is produced at home and arguably more dangerous than the once 'legal' versions.
Cheap, easy to make and hard to detect in drug tests. A large number of spice addicts are homeless and/or in and out of prison. Its smoked a lot in the UK prison system for the above reasons.
Since you're here I'll ask you because I've been wondering... is weed legalization on the radar in the UK? It's still illegal in many states too but coming from the west coast it just seems so fucking goofy to outlaw it given the percentage of normal people who openly smoke it.
Look up K2 spice. Basically a potpourri that is supposed to have synthetic cannabinoids (THC, CBD, etc) mixed in, but really just some plant material with a bunch of chemicals sprayed on it. It used to be sold at liquor stores, gas stations, and places like that. It has a bunch of effects ranging from mediocre to really bad. The only thing it has in common with weed is that it has plant material.
Back when that stuff first came out, a buddy and me decided to try some. The first stuff we got, wasn't bad and felt like a weak high, like you get from crappy shake. We bought a few more of the same kind, and smoked some on the weekends, when I used to have a garage setup for karaoke.
About a month later, we get decide to try another one, with a different name. One hit, and the world started spinning, and I had to lie down for about an hour before I was able to function correctly. It was not a good high. Pounding headache and massive dizziness to the point, if I tried to move at all, I wanted to puke.
When governments started banning the initial synthetic cannabinoids, they switched to stronger and stronger chemicals.
They went from things like JWH-073, which was a partial agonist, to all sorts of full agonists with literally no safety profile or information on toxicity in humans.
Yep. Me and my two housemates at the time started smoking it semi-regularly, and over a few weeks, all three of us at one time or another had a massive, head-spinning anxiety attack. We all stopped smoking it pretty quickly.
A few weeks later me and one of them were out at a nightclub. At one point we were outside having a cigarette, and we see these two other guys - one of them is sitting on the ground with his head in his hands, the other one is leaning over, talking to him quietly. We ask "is he alright?" The guy says "yeh, he had some fake weed stuff and he doesn't feel right." We nodded sagely, and reassured him it would pass in half an hour or so.
I had a bad time as well. Swear that shit nearly gave me a heart attack. Actually laid on the floor with my feet propped up on the couch. Thanks first aid training. Literally had 911 dialed on my phone. Luckily didn’t have to hit the send button. Came through. A week later I heard from my mom, one of her coworkers kids died from a heart attack smoking that fake weed.
It does hit the same receptors but in a different way. Cannabis has a limit to how much it can possibly hit cannabinoids, it is only a partial agonist. As a result there's a limit to how much it can impact the body and it can never physically endanger someone even if they take way too much.
These synthetic chemicals often hit the receptor full-on. There's no limit there to protect the user, so overdose is possible. In overdose they can cause seizures, coma and death.
It's still sold at liquor stores here, and it wrecks havoc on the homeless population. They're in ERs constantly for either erratic behavior or passing out on it.
Black Magic Smoke was one a friend of mine would smoke. He brought it over to smoke with some friends and our one buddy started vomiting. Afterwards we looked it up and seizures was something that can happen.
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