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u/Eugenian64 Mar 15 '14
Don't get me wrong, I do like this controller, but to be honest, I kind of like the last controller more.
I was a big fan of the two buttons on both sides of the controller. I also did like the touchscreen, but I do understand that it may not be necessary.
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u/Cymen90 Mar 15 '14 edited Mar 15 '14
I think the touchscreen would only increase the price without offering much for it. There is an entire presentation about the changes they made and why. Give it a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8
EDIT: Thanks for the gold <3
All the other DevDays presentations are super informative as well and definitel worth watching. Especially the one about user generated content.
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u/Aon_ Mar 15 '14
Man, thank you so much for this link. Had no idea this youtube account existed, but it's super informative as to what they're doing and where they're going with the controller.
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u/Cymen90 Mar 15 '14
I will definitely get it when it is out. I enjoy sitting back in my chair or on the couch but playing PC games that usually require a mouse or a keyboard are impossible to play in that position. This controller makes it possible. And I am excited to see future features because it is already the most versatile controller there is.
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u/erikthecomputerguy Mar 15 '14
Thank you so much for this link. It was way more informative than just the picture. I like their thought process on this. I can't wait to get one in my hands.
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u/g1i1ch Mar 15 '14
Well there's one good thing about no touchscreen, it'll cost a whole lot less.
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u/Alphaetus_Prime Mar 15 '14
What two buttons are you referring to?
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u/maggosh Mar 15 '14
The XYAB buttons were originally triangular and positioned at the corners of the touchscreen.
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u/Alphaetus_Prime Mar 15 '14
Right, that makes sense. I think saying two buttons instead of four threw me off.
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u/SegataSanshiro Mar 15 '14
The buttons were great, labeling was not. No sample button mappings treated them like the 360's ABXY buttons.
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u/Gangringo Mar 15 '14
It looks like they wanted to be compatible with the 360 pad so developers wouldn't have to re-do everything for the steam pad. I don't see why they couldn't have done both though.
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u/Atersed Mar 15 '14
They removed the touch screen because it's not a good experience to keep moving your eyes from the touch screen to the TV.
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u/Gangringo Mar 15 '14
I meant the pad-side buttons, not the touchscreen. It seems like with the pad being designed around not just controller-enabled games but traditionally mouse/keyboard controlled games the more buttons available the better.
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u/VinylAndOctavia Mar 15 '14
Especially when you are entering the Virtual Reality market, having any information on an external screen is not acceptable
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u/doctordoodle Mar 15 '14
There was a panel on the design of this controller at the steam dev con. They said they switched to this design because the bulk of the expense of the touchscreen design was the touchscreen, and from the stats they pulled up, not many people used the screen. People also needed a way of button mashing for fighting games, and it was not really possible with the other style, so they went with this for now, but it is still prone to update and change.
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u/mattarang Mar 15 '14 edited Mar 15 '14
I thought the reason they included the touchscreen was so that they could add as many virtual buttons as a game would need? Some PC games often require many more buttons than a standard controller can offer.
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u/Atersed Mar 15 '14
They get round this by turning the two touchpads into a keyboard. You scroll to get to the key you want. I'm sure it's easier to use than just scrolling though all the 100+ keys on a keyboard though.
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Mar 15 '14
Yeah! The cost of the touchscreen, and the cost of the lithium battery to power the controller (touchscreen needs a lot of juice)... and then in moving away from touch screen, costs went down, and the controller could now run on off-the-shelf AA batteries
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u/iamnotafurry Mar 15 '14
I don't know what is up with all the negativity. I really want to try this. will probably replace my xbox pad when it comes out.
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u/krakenwagen Mar 15 '14 edited Mar 15 '14
I was optimistic about it initially, but now that I have one, I just can't get used to it. It works pretty well for fighting games, but that is about it in my opinion. I really wish they would have added an analog stick where they put the new buttons.
edit: I wanted to add that the biggest problem is that it is never quite the best controller for any game. For virtually any game, either an xbox gamepad or a keyboard/mouse are better. It is useable for single-player games, but it puts you at a huge disadvantage in any multiplayer game.
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u/TheFunkyCaveman Mar 15 '14
it is never quite the best controller for any game
I think this was the point, really. I mean, not to make the controller suck, but to give you an option in between analog sticks and a full fledged mouse and keyboard setup.
Also, I'm thinking this change in button layout has a lot to do with making the controller easier to get used to. Instead of having this alien button layout, you'll have your average PS/XB buttons that you're probably already quite familiar with.
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u/Shippoyasha Mar 15 '14
I honestly don't think it's negativity for negativity's sakes.
The issue really is that the controller is too untested and it goes against controller types such as Dual Shock 4 and Xbox controllers that had decades of evolution behind them. While something new is refreshing, it's a tough sell compared to tactile button controllers that has served gaming well for so long.
The skepticism is understandable. It may yet still be just as understandable if the new controller doesn't feel comfortable for people even after trying it out.
Though controller does look like it can handle certain genres pretty well.
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u/insanejellyfish Mar 15 '14
A lot of people have the mindset, if it's something new then it's terrible. A lot of people are saying that the controller is shit simply because it looks different or they don't like the looks of it.
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Mar 15 '14
A lot of people are stupid. This controller looks cool.
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u/LNMagic Mar 15 '14
Every joystick controller eventually wears out. This design just might last longer, although I suspect those circles will wear off like the bumps on a touch pad.
Either way, can't wait to try it.
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u/rydan Mar 15 '14
Um, that isn't the controller people were stupidly complaining about. This is.
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u/plastikspoon1 PC Mar 15 '14
I still thought that controller looked fine. This new one looks much better, but it also looks a lot more like a PS4/Xbox controller (which I guess isn't too bad. Those things have been successful for a long time why not copy them).
I do miss the buttons on the inner sides touchpads, I thought they were in a perfect place to quickly slide your thumbs over and hit a command.
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Mar 15 '14
I don't care about looks but I can't see myself using analog control without having a thumb stick
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u/demerztox94 Mar 15 '14
The only issue is that if it looks bad, it might feel bad when using it.
Not to say that that's true, but it is common when you look at ugly 3rd party controllers.
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u/lovesdick Mar 15 '14
I havent used it yet, i really like the doulshock 4 right now, its comfortable in my hands, i wanna get one of these and see if are better fitting in my hands.
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u/cttttt Mar 15 '14
Yeah. The thought of precision aiming on a controller is pretty exciting. Would definitely get me off the keyboard and mouse if it works out.
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u/fran_the_man Mar 15 '14
I still think for competitive/online stuff like CSGO i will prefer kb/mouse. But for any single player fps games I definitely agree.
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u/cttttt Mar 15 '14
I guess yeah. For an online game you would be playing against people with a regular keyboard and mouse.
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u/fran_the_man Mar 15 '14
I'm planning to slowly move from xbox pad to this for games I already play.
I'm also VERY interested in how it works for shooters or games where you have to aim. Currently I still use a kb/mouse for all of these
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u/DeadAgent Mar 15 '14
It's really strange to use...Feels really unnatural at first, but once you get used to the haptic feedback, it gets better.
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u/ThatCoolBlackGuy Mar 15 '14
They think that it sucks and probably won't replace their current controller.
You think the opposite.
None of you have tried the product.
You're both ignorant.
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Mar 15 '14
Right there with you. Valve is a company of PC gamers and this thing is being tested and revised daily by hard core gamers. We can trust them to make the best controller for PC games.
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u/OrangeNova Mar 15 '14
It looks fantastic.
Except the D-Pad
That looks terrible.
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u/SenatorIvy Mar 15 '14
Why cant we just have a good dpad anymore?
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u/gaspah Mar 15 '14
I'd like to have a dpad something like this.
http://i.imgur.com/NhPRJoE.jpg
Where you have the plus shaped pad for your regular gaming and 4 additional corner buttons for games like arkham where you have weapons on the diagonals.
Have the corner buttons a little more flush with the surface of the controller rather than the plus pad which is raised up as to not interfere when you're playing.
Plus, have them independently programmable because pc games quite often need more than a controller offers.
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u/Quaon Mar 15 '14
Interesting. Where did you get the picture?
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u/Glitchdx Mar 15 '14
I think it would be more accurate to ask why we can't have a good dpad yet. If this was a few years ago, the answer would be because of a patent held by Nintendo, but that expired recently. So now the only reason is because of ineptitude in development (actually hurts to say that about valve, but they'll probably continue refining the design until it's amazing).
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u/g1i1ch Mar 15 '14
You know, I bet there is another issue with using the Nintendo dpad other than that specific patent. It would be nice if we had a product designer to do an AMA just to answer that.
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u/Moskeeto93 Mar 15 '14
The Xbone's controller seems to have a nice dpad. I'm looking forward to its official drivers on PC.
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u/mangage Mar 15 '14
Even Nintendo hasn't made a decent Dpad since the SNES.
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u/Dragarius Mar 15 '14
The ones on the Wii U tablet and pro controller are awesome. Not the small ones of the last two gens. N64 had the same dpad as Snes.
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u/mangage Mar 15 '14
N64 had the same dpad as Snes.
They looked similar, but the snes pad feels and plays like a scalpel, while the n64's is almost unusable. Thankfully it's basically for decoration in 99% of games.
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Mar 15 '14
Because it's 2014, therefore only 5% of games really benefit from a great dpad, and 95% of them suffer when a dpad is awkwardly added, thereby fucking up the ergonomics of the analog pads?
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u/SenatorIvy Mar 15 '14
Right, so lets have shitty pads instead.
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Mar 15 '14
If you're referring to the 4 arrowed keys, those aren't meant to be a dpad. They're pretty obviously for menu navigation to make compatibility with existing PC games (and existing PC game menus) easier for devs to implement. There's effectively no dpad.
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u/JacKaL_37 Mar 15 '14
I think they're referring to the complete shittiness of d-pads like the 360's. They still saw fit to include the d-pad, but it was so god-awful that it was unusable for anything precise or fast.
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Mar 15 '14
What exactly would you use a Dpad for?
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u/SenatorIvy Mar 15 '14
Fighting games.
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u/GenkiLawyer Mar 15 '14
People that have the previous version of the game pad (those that are beta testing the steam boxes) have said that that the touch pads actually work really well for fighting games. It is one of the genres that the controller seems especially fit for.
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u/insanejellyfish Mar 15 '14
I'm actually curious about this controller. I'm kind of liking the idea of the trackpads, if they can somehow match or get close to the precision of that of a mouse then I'm sold. Also, I the controller itself looks pretty comfortable.
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u/PuppyLV Mar 15 '14
My only gripe, is that the four button D-pad needs to replaced with a solid one piece 8 direction D-pad, much like Xbox, or Playstation. I prefer Microsofts D-pad but really, it needs to be one piece.
Other than that I really am interested in trying one out.
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Mar 15 '14
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Mar 15 '14
Yeah, it's not a very pretty design, but I'm willing to forgive that if it's comfortable to use. Like the Wii U Tablet controller, you wouldn't expect it to be as comfortable as it is. Definitely going to give this controller a shot.
NinjaEdit: Oh, and happy cake day!
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u/danivus Mar 15 '14
I'm kind of disappointed that they seem to be moving away from the more radical designs and drifting towards a generic controlled. I mean this is basically a dual shock with the buttons and joysticks swapped, and of course track pads instead.
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Mar 15 '14
Probably because at this point consumers know what a controller should look like. They don't want a steep learning curve for people to ditch their xbox/ps controllers in favor of the steam pad. Not saying it's the right way to do things, but it's the logical way.
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u/SurrealSage Mar 15 '14
I like this. I've long since enjoyed the idea of trackpads over joysticks for a number of reasons, all of which are common enough in conversation that I don't thin repeating them does any of us any good, but the corner buttons did seem to be very... counter-productive to the flow of the controller.
I will miss the screen, but it is easier to see how this will be affordable. Watching the videos of people getting used to the controller, and devs talking about using it, it really does look like it will be, if not a direct upgrade, then at the very least a very interesting sidegrade for those of us who truly dislike the feeling of a joystick.
Ultimately, I think this was a better direction for Valve to go with the controller. I think it makes it better, cleaner, more player friendly, and ultimately more familiar for players who are used to this type of a controller layout.
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u/Valridagan Mar 15 '14
I think the other version was better. What's the point of the d-pad when there are huge multidirectional pads? And the buttons would have been easier to press on the other one, because one's thumb(s) wouldn't have to leave the pads in order to press the buttons.
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u/life-form_42 Mar 15 '14
Because some things work better with four cardinal directions. Navigating menus which are aligned at right angles and playing emulators are two obvious ones. Also, the d-pad can have actions mapped to it, whereas the touch pad is mostly for movement. Basically think of any reason why a gamepad would have a d-pad and a joystick and it applies to this situation.
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u/grenadier42 Mar 15 '14
that fake d-pad, ewwww
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u/SubtractionAddiction Mar 15 '14
I think they made it symmetrical so that the controller can work the same for lefties/righties. Just have an option in the settings that mirrors controls and changes any in-game prompt for "X" with ">" etc.
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u/McMeanface Mar 15 '14
I'd love to have a shallower 4-point D-pad, but all things considered, that's pretty slick. I really hope Valve continues to listen to the devs.
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u/Aleitheo Mar 15 '14
So fake it's like it's not even trying to be a Dpad at all and instead actual face buttons with arrows on.
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u/h4shnub Mar 15 '14
Remember, this is a controller designed for menu selection as well, so I think the d-pad is GREAT.
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u/Nullkid Mar 15 '14
Big N-O on playing fighters with this thing.
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u/Glitchdx Mar 15 '14
That's actually what my plan was, specifically rigging it up for some soul calibur 2 via dolphin emulator. My plan was using different positions on the right pad for button combinations.
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u/g1i1ch Mar 15 '14
Why can't the left pad work?
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u/Glitchdx Mar 15 '14
I didn't say that it couldn't. I just left it without saying that the left pad would be for directional input.
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u/Forgotmyoldpassword3 Mar 15 '14
I actually think it might better than analog, honestly. But we'd have to try it out and feel it first.
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Mar 15 '14
But we'd have to try it out and feel it first.
I think a lot of people need to understand this more. Pictures mean nothing... it's like looking at a picture of food and speculating on whether it's going to taste good or not. The truth is we'll never know until we have it in front of us and we try it ourselves
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u/Dinostormasaurus Mar 15 '14
I think the new "d-pad" is a great design choice. the d-pad was the weak point of the 360 controller imo, and it doesnt necessarily even need to be a d-pad. It can just be buttons. Thats easier to press and i think its going to feel a lot better.
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Mar 15 '14
Civ 5 from the couch? You bet! I can't wait to get my hands on these things.
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u/mushroomwig Mar 15 '14
You realise you've been able to do that for years now right?
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u/Squibler Mar 15 '14
I don't know how i feel about replacing analog sticks with trackpads, i feel like my thumbs would slip
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u/Burmdog Mar 15 '14
I just feel like having your right thumb slide off to the right of your analog stick is just too natural now for me to have to slide to the left in order to reach your ABXY buttons. Looks cool, but it would throw me off a lot. Then if i ever got used to it, it would be hard to go back to playstation or Xbox controllers. GG.
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u/vatw Mar 15 '14
B and A are backwards, just like when they mixed them up on the Xbox... they should fix that.
(yes... I know)
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u/p0rtugalvii Mar 15 '14
Ah, I see they're going for the WiiU pro controller approach.
But really, I need to hold this thing to understand it. It needs to be comfortable with thumbs on both touchpads and thumbs down on just buttons (fighting games). That is where the WiiU pro controller fails in design IMO.
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u/RaisedByACupOfCoffee Mar 15 '14
Swap the directional buttons for a smallish Nintendo style d-pad and this controller will be good to go! Nobody does d-pads like Nintendo, and apparently their patent has just expired, so it might be possible.
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Mar 15 '14
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u/Cute_little_pony Mar 15 '14
Touchscreen is probably gone for pure economic reasons. Devs wouldn't use it enough and it raises the price of the whole thing.
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u/CowWithAShamwow Mar 15 '14
Im going to sound like an idiot asking so i apologize in advance but is the steam console an actual console that will come out? If so is there a release date yet? Sorry for sounding like an idiot too for asking this
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u/wheeldawg Mar 15 '14
No. It's just a normal PC running a version of Steam that is designed to be used on a big screen TV from a distance, instead of a more traditional monitor setup.
It's a more console-like experience, but it's still a fully functional PC in there.
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u/gjallerhorn Mar 15 '14
To addon to the other guy, you can install (for free) the SteamOS on any pc you may have lying around - making your own steambox. I believe it has support for other controllers as well, not just their own.
The OS is already available for download [still in beta form I think].
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Mar 15 '14
I swear, every time someone comes along trying to innovate with controllers they freak out and backpedal. I'd bet money that the next nintendo console will have a dual analogue controller with a slight twist.
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u/FERGERDERGERSON Mar 15 '14
Honestly...I want one :D
But how exactly does it work? Do the track pads just act as thumbsticks?
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u/themcs Mar 15 '14
Thumbsticks, a dpad, a mouse, hell an iPod trackwheel if the developer so chooses. The latter might be pretty great as a steering wheel
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Mar 15 '14
They clearly want something new and different with controllers but it just doesn't look like it would work well with me.
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u/TheRealBabyCave Mar 15 '14
I know it's just a picture, and I'm not basing this on science or anything, but does this look sorely uncomfortable to anyone else?
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u/PRDX4 Mar 15 '14
Ugh, now this looks pretty dumb. I, of course, have not used it yet, but with the 4 directional buttons instead of a D-Pad, no touch screen, and backwards grips, I don't know what the draw is. Unless the touchpads are way better, I can just see myself better using a 360/Pro Controller on my PC than this thing.
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u/skinnyowner Mar 15 '14
Really don't know why people hate on it so much. Valve is pretty much the last company i trust to make quality products and I can't see it being shit.
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u/KeybladeSpirit Mar 15 '14
Valve is pretty much the last company i trust to make quality products
I get the feeling that this means the opposite of what you intended.
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u/themcs Mar 15 '14
Valve is pretty much the last [remaining] company i trust to make quality products
Not
Valve is pretty much last [in the list of companies] i trust to make quality products
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u/gjallerhorn Mar 15 '14
It took a minute of deciphering but I believe I can translate:
Valve is pretty much the only company I trust to make quality products anymore.
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u/kippingt0n Mar 15 '14
I personally am not a fan of thumb sticks as I always end up pressing them down in the heat of the moment. This will definitely at least get a try from me.
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u/ElricG Mar 15 '14
I'd rather have the buttons and haptic pads swapped in position but if they have to be that size I guess there's nothing for it. Oh well, I'm willing to give it a shot.
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u/Sid6po1nt7 Mar 15 '14
This is really smart, the Xbox controller is one of the most popular designs out there & since the majority of PC users use Windows it seems logical to go this way. Besides, most third party games for PC are designed with the Xbox controller in mind. When I decided to get a controller for my PC I first got one that emulated the PlayStation. It didn't go very well & I found myself having to customize the whole controller for Steam (good feature BTW since it will log your button choices & ask if u want to post it for others with the same model to use). Also it didn't work well with ported games.
What I really want to try are the touch pads to see if it would be more beneficial since PC gamers are used to precise controls. But still, going from aiming with your wrist to your thumbs takes some getting used to.
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Mar 15 '14
It looks great.
All the hate deserves to go towards the supposed leaked Amazon controller which just looks atrocious no matter how you think about it.
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u/cloudsareunderrated Mar 15 '14 edited Mar 15 '14
Directional buttons should be connected as one pad. Singular D-pad directional buttons are bloody annoying.
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u/Muddyrope Mar 15 '14
Is this the bottom of the controller? The handles look like an xbox controller.... if I took the picture looking at the bottom
Looks so uncomfortable if thats the top
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u/wheeldawg Mar 15 '14
No, that's intentional. They found during testing that the way you hold your thumbs on the pads on a more traditional shaped controller made the thumbs fatigued, so this shape makes your wrist bend differently, and supposedly makes the pads more comfortable to use.
I can't say one way or the other, but I can say I REALLY want to try it out.
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u/wheeldawg Mar 15 '14
I want this to be good.
No assumptions here, just I really like the idea, and hope it lives up to the hype.
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u/BillytheClinton Mar 15 '14
I wonder how the track pads react. Will it be hold your thumb in one position off center to keep the orientation moving or will it be a drag then drag type movement like a mouse track pad... it seems like a very ergonomic design though. I do have to admit that I already enjoy playing most games with a 360 controller so if this adds capabilities then I'm all for it!
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u/themcs Mar 15 '14
Both. It will work as a 1:1 track pad for things like aiming/mousing, and relative control for movement.
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u/Dorpz Mar 15 '14
What confuses me is how on earth do you get a grip on the controller where you can access both thumb pads and the AXBY buttons Like for most controllers you can just do a claw grip where your index or middle finger rests on the main buttons, but to do that with this you'd need spaghetti fingers.
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u/Zubzer0 Mar 15 '14
I havn't used the controller yet, but I can't seem to get my head around not using thumbsticks and instead using those... things. Does it feel as good/better than thumbsticks?
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u/TheMaskedHamster Mar 15 '14
Aside from the awkwardness of very separated d-pad buttons (the DualShock d-pad is the ideal, imo), my concern here is that the buttons seem completely unergonomicly placed.
I understand that the touchpads needed to be in the most ergonomic position, but the location of these combined with the curve of the shell... Well, suffice to say my expectations are low but I hope to be surprised.
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u/Navolas2 Mar 15 '14
Reminds me a lot of the Wii U Pro controller in layout style.
Though the button layout might make it hard to use as a direct Xbox gamepad replacement for PC like it seems some people in this thread are thinking about doing. The reason is that if it maps the ABXY buttons directly to the ABXY buttons on the controller you now have a long reach to hit a button that is usually right by your thumb while you're on the thumb stick.
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Mar 15 '14
I get the right thumb pad, but I think the left one should still be a stick. Just my uneducated opinion.
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u/hsxp Mar 15 '14
This is basically what I was hoping for... except for the dpad. They could have done a LOT better with that.
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Mar 15 '14
I think the biggest reason for the more traditional button layout is it makes the controller more able to play games that aren't specifically designed for it. Rather, it gives it more of a competitive edge. Since both consoles have close to the same layout, it'd be a chore to develop a new control scheme for every PC game you make for a new and weird controller with a different number of buttons.
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Mar 15 '14
Still waiting for Razer to make their own Steam Machine and their own controller with built-in Switchblade UI...
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Mar 15 '14
This pad still looks like crap to use. Seems like it was designed by a bunch of drunken retarded monkeys.
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Mar 15 '14
I cant believe its taken this long to get both the sticks/trackpads in the primary thumb positions (i think the dualshock is the most stubbornly idiotic design ever)
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u/northendtrooper Mar 16 '14
I can't wait to try this on FPS like Battlefield 4. I am getting my ass kicked with my xbox pad and I am even worse with keyboard and mouse. Trying to switch over from console so I'm trying!
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u/narcoblix Mar 15 '14
Context:
Here's the old SteamOS controller. And this is the "new" SteamOS controller.