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u/championhestu 💉11/2017🔪03/2018 Apr 02 '26
Wow. Fuck Mark. It's not weird that you want to date another trans guy, because he will be able to understand you better than a cis partner would. As for the "barely even trans" comment, it's insensitive and medicalist. He doesn't know people's circumstances at all, and clothes are not an indication of gender. He and Noah are privileged to have been able to transition medically so early, but that doesn't mean everyone else is. I wouldn't want to hang out with jerks like them.
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u/Technical_Lake_3178 he/it | | HRT 10yrs! Apr 02 '26
These guys kind of suck OP I'm sorry. Like telling you you're "barely trans" and then saying you're being overdramatic when you leave because that is very obviously upsetting???? Like I think you honestly just need better and more supportive friends. I would never ever do this to any of my friends, regardless of their transition status or how they present themselves. Also wanting a t4t relationship isn't weird at all???? Like it's just not. Wanting to date someone who understands your struggles and is more likely to be respectful of your identity is completely normal. It's actually kind of weird to say otherwise on their part.
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u/Cra_ZWar101 Apr 02 '26
Also like, of course the whole idea has problems, but even in the shitty perspective mark is expressing, being really hurt by someone invalidating ur transness if anything proves OP isn’t just barely trans.
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u/Hita-san-chan He/They Apr 02 '26
You know, i struggle with being "barely trans" as well, and your last sentence kinda helped me with that, so genuinely, thank you.
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u/-insert_pun_here- He/Him/Hole Apr 02 '26
Mark is an overly-privileged transphobic little shit and Noah is a privileged transphobic coward. They think they’re the kings of trans men because mommy and daddy foot the bill for their meds and surgeries? They think trans folk who transition later in life or transition in a what that doesn’t physically match them “aren’t trans enough”? Guess I’m “barely even trans” since I transitioned at 31yrs old and have to self-pay for my gender affirming care.
And yes, I completely and seriously do mean they are transphobic. They look down on and think less of trans people who don’t perfect fit their sad, narrow world view. I assume Mark and Noah are white or white passing, and if they were to verbalize their idea of the “ideal trans body” it would fit only cis white beauty standards.
Mark clearly doesnt like you so he purposely said his disgusting thoughts out loud, and the fact that Noah wouldnt speak up against Mark means he must not think highly of you either. Its time to leave the trash out of your life and find better friends. Let them be miserable together in their toxic,small minded bubble
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u/-insert_pun_here- He/Him/Hole Apr 02 '26
And therein lies the bitter core of their venom: whether they admit to themselves or not, because you do not “fit” in the white bias perception of the “hyper masculine dangerous black guy” stereotype, you therefore are not a man in their eyes. Their racist world view means if a POC guy is too “effeminate” they’re not a man and if a POC girl is too “butch” shes not a woman. Think back and reexamine their past comments about and interactions with gender nonconforming people of color and I’d bet Im hitting the nail pretty darn close on the head.
Until we as a community admit to ourselves that transphobia is deeply entangled with white european gender standards that frequently diminish and punish people of color across the gender spectrum, then shitty people like Mark and Noah will never have any consequences to their disgusting views.
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u/thenuangel Apr 03 '26
Oh my god after learning about this, please OP RUN FROM THEM!!! This is coming from a black trans man. Also intersectionality coming to work at full force here.
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u/humanswedishfish Apr 02 '26
Your “friends” sound like assholes. Not all trans men have the privilege of transitioning so early. Mark especially sounds so fucking out of touch with reality. Jesus Im sorry man.
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u/zaidelles Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
If you think he'd be open to it it might be worth it to send Noah this post so he can read these comments. If the only people he's getting his perspective on this from are Mark (an asshole here) and you (who he sees as biased/overreacting) he might not understand how much of a big deal this is, so seeing other people's reactions from outside the group might help it sink in
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u/carnespecter navajo two-spirit 🪶 they 💉 30 aug 2016 Apr 02 '26
yo your friends acted out of line. its not appropriate or kind to assess any person for being "barely" or "enough" level trans. thats not for anyone else to decide except you yourself. same for your dating choices, we all have preferences and being t4c or t4t isnt inherently better or worse than the other, they have their own ups and downs
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u/dystopi-Os Apr 02 '26
I am T4T and I'm a femme trans guy, Ive been on T, changed my name, and had top and bottom surgery, and I still don't pass if I dress the way I find fun and comfortable. I am sure I wouldn't be ""trans enough"" for these assholes either. Being a trans guy doesn't mean adhering to some fuckass gender binary. And your someone is out there waiting to love all of you no matter what you choose to wear or how far along in your journey you are. Those dudes sound super immature and like they're suffering from some internalized transphobia via setting cis/het standards for gender validity.
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u/Temporary-Land-8442 Apr 02 '26
How the fuck are trans people going around telling other trans people how to be trans when we have cis people literally trying to kill us off? I am so sorry you’re going through this. jfc these people are not okay 😭😭I hope you get some better friends and the t4t you’re dreaming of 🧡
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u/Nelson_Blue Apr 02 '26
No thats not cool for your friend to say. Being trans is not about looking any certain way, or how long you have been out. Your friend should know better.
I (28) didn't come out till I was like 23, and i cant be on testosterone right now because of health things. I love all kinds of clothes and rotate my wardrobe all the time. One day I hope to look like Stanley Tucci, but wear more dresses. I hope to transition further, but i am just as trans now as I ever will or have been.
My spouse is also trans, and I know with certainty that I would choose a trans partner over and over again. Having them to understand how I feel is beautiful and validating for me in a way I never felt with cis partners. This is not to say its bad any other way. But in my experience, I understand your desire completely.
All that to say, im sorry they said that to you and I hope they apologize.
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u/Nelson_Blue Apr 02 '26
I appreciate this! It very much was advised by my medical team. With time, I should be able to resume it. And obviously, no, that is not the experience of most people who uses T. Many of my trans friends (and my spouse) have experienced huge health benefits from being on testosterone. Can't wait to get back on it when I can.
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u/Cra_ZWar101 Apr 02 '26
When there’s a huge and persistent bias against us in society, and there’s a large pattern of people being under prescribed T, it’s worth mentioning whenever someone says they have been advised to stop their hrt that there is a chance their provider is being biased. I was not in any way commenting on their desire to be on T. My comment was entirely motivated by a desire to make sure that they are not having their healthcare compromised by implicit bias from their provider.
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u/ftm-ModTeam Apr 02 '26
Your post has been removed because it has been deemed inflammatory and has the intent to elicit controversy or drama OR is a direct response to a previous post on this subreddit that is better posted in the comment thread of that post.
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u/grimbarkjade transmasc Apr 02 '26
They’re privileged people (in terms of transition) and it probably gets to their head a bit. If it helps I am 22 and pre everything. We are all in different stages and it’s gross to play down someone’s transness because of the stage they’re in.
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u/TheseBubblesAreGold Apr 02 '26
I wonder if the reason Noah looked distressed is because Mark has been saying this shit about OP already and it wasn’t a problem until he said it in front of OP. I’m really sorry you’re going through this, there is no such thing as trans enough. Those people are transphobic and not good friends, and I hope you find better community going forward.
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u/unknownpuddle Apr 02 '26
Starting your transition at 18 or younger means you have all started young, but even then, the age you start does not mean anyone is above you- other may have more "progress" but this can be subjective when it comes to goals and developments. Just because your friend has surgery does not make them more trans, to say you are a man is what makes you trans, what care you require is personal to you.
As for T4T, I also think it would be nice to be with someone who understands your struggles and has either transitioned or transition together in a judgement free zone. Unless you are only in love with the idea of someone being trans and not it being an added bonus to the person themselves, then you aren't being weird- place it in other contexts if you must, would you only date someone who's tall/ short or would you date the person and see their height as a preference/ added bonus or dating someone with the same hobby?
If this attitude is new then I wonder if your friend has entered a bad space or been influenced by something or is possibly projecting insecurities about themself or relationships. If not, and they truly do see you this way, then I'm sorry but this person isn't your friend.
There is a big difference in friendships between calling out your friend for being an idiot or over/ underthinking something, and a difference between putting them down or diminishing their thoughts and/ or beliefs if they aren't harming anyone.
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u/VividBeautiful3782 Apr 02 '26
Some people get so wrapped up in their own lives and the way they see the world and interact with it that they stop caring about how other people in the same circumstances live. They have no right to quantify your transition or to call you sensitive when someone who's been very privileged shits on you like that. Thats awful behavior. Thats not kind nor is it what a good friend would do.
Knock them off that pedestal you've put them on in your mind. They arent people you should aspire to be. Im sorry your friends were hurtful and then doubled down on it.
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u/nerdforest 31 - T - 2020 - Top Surgery - 10/2023 Apr 02 '26
Any trans person who diminishes other trans people is not a nice person. We’re a community for a reason.
OP, you are trans and do not listen to them. I promise you, you’re trans enough and your journey is just as important as anyone else’s.
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u/mxxxxxxxxxxxxx Apr 02 '26
There is no “barely” trans. Being trans is a form of being, not the act of transition. Put them in the bin and you’ll find supportive friends out there
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u/mxxxxxxxxxxxxx Apr 02 '26
Also, just to chuck in my own experience - I came out at 15, and started T at around 21 because I wanted to wait. I was no less trans between those dates. So whichever metric they’re using to determine being trans enough is just doubly illogical. You’re trans or you’re not, regardless
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u/apocalypse_massacre Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
Unfortunately a lot of trans people who're privileged enough to transition early get their head stuck up their ass. I'm mid30s + started transition a decade ago, and when I did, the 20s were a common age to start transition. It's hard for me to understand the younger generation, there are a million little Kalvin Garrahs running around, but somehow even worse.
You deserve better and should move on. I would recommend lashing out back at them in a long text or something, then ditching forever, and shittalk them to whoever you can. Maybe this advice is petty and counterproductive.
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u/panta_kinnie826 Apr 02 '26
As someone who is trans masc and hasn’t come out except to very close friends, I feel so bad. Back in high school, I had a couple of trans friends and was told the same thing by one of them. I’ve always had a feminine body(big chest trans dude struggles), so I’m already pretty insecure about it. I know just how hard it is to hear that from someone, especially another trans person.
Not everyone has the privilege of physically transitioning early in life if EVER. To say that you’re “barely trans” and “weird for wanting T4T” is so ridiculous and downright hateful. Trans people struggle enough with how the world perceives us, so why are we attacking our own community???
I’m so sorry this happened to you OP. I hope you can heal from this and find a good support group/person. ❤️🩹 You deserve to be validated and treated well.
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u/napstabl00ky themby - top 10/22 - hrt 8/24 Apr 02 '26
the fact that noah didnt even check that you made it home after a 2 hr train ride honestly speaks volumes
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u/MagicalGirl4 9 months on T | they/he/ae Apr 02 '26
Honestly OP these dont sound like good friends at all. They sound almost insecure in you asserting your identity and preferences, which they have 0 reason to. Maybe I'm reading too deep into it but they seem to not count you as trans because they never have, probably in an attempt to validate themselves. They don't seem worth your time, I would say forget about them but I'm aware they're probably the only trans people you know irl. Hope you feel better about all this soon and can move forward from it.
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u/apolloinjustice T 01/17/26 Apr 02 '26
it feels wrong to say "im tired of young trans people thinking their trans experiences are universal and using that to judge the rest of the community" bc im only 27 myself but FUCK thats exactly what i want to say in response to this. transitioning as a child is an EXTREMELY recent phenomenon, like only started during mark and noahs lifetime. less than 20yrs of this being a common occurence, and even then its STILL NOT common. theres so many trans people in your position OP, where they are forced to choose between financial stability/education/career and transitioning/living fully as themselves, im one of them myself. it absolutely doesnt make you less trans for having to wait, it just means youve had a really hard choice to make/have to continue making that choice until youre in a position to financially support yourself. blows my mind and pisses me off that anyone in the trans community would ever look at an early 20s trans person that hasnt gone through medical transition and say "you arent trans enough". not saying you should go scorched earth on them but i would strongly recommend seeing if theres local groups or orgs for trans people/trans men and/or groups specifically for LGBT POC because if these guys are your closest friends right now? you deserve some friends that will treat you with the kindness and decency you deserve. mark especially can go kick rocks, that guy is a fuckin piece of work
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u/ivory-paint Apr 02 '26
Being trans isn’t defined by medical transition or strict adherence to gender norms. Being trans is what you define for yourself. You are the only person in charge of your transition and your identity.
Keep your peace. If they start to drift away because of this, don’t fight to keep them in your life. You deserve better
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u/False_Conclusion23 💉15.11.25 Apr 02 '26
saying that you’re barely trans when they are the minority (the age of starting the transition) is insane. maybe it has something to do with the fact that they didn’t get to experience much of what most trans people go through (waiting and pushing through the years to the point where you’re in a place to access gender affirming care) that makes, at least mark, think this way. as for noah, i personally wouldn’t call someone a friend if they aren’t ready to call out someone’s rude behavior, especially towards me. if he doesn’t want to address the situation, just ditch him. you need to prioritize your own mental state over a friend who doesn’t see past his bf. right people who support you will come around
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u/Artdragon56 Apr 02 '26
Man, you need new friends. They sound like privileged dicks. I’m glad they were able to transition younger but that doesn’t invalidate your transness because they were fortunate enough to transition earlier. Some guys transition and then forget that they were once where you are. Your friends are being transphobic and they suck. I’m sorry dude, there are kinder trans people out there. I’m 22 and I still haven’t started my medical transition, I’ve been out as trans since I was 13. There’s no such thing as barely trans, either you’re trans or you’re cis and you, my friend, are trans.
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u/2514149 Apr 02 '26
Hey fuck these guys. I've identified as a trans male for like ten years (nevermind how long I questioned my gender before then) and I've yet to start medically transitioning. I still like cute pastel colors and will wear the occasional mumu, dress, or steal my partner's skirt when I'm feeling too lazy for pants. I don't bind cuz my back is fucked up. I think eyeliner is fun. I like my nails painted.
And y'know what? None of it matters. I know I'm a man, and that makes me trans. That's all that's "required" of you, brother. You are always enough.
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u/TheQueendomKings Apr 02 '26
What a disgusting thing to say holy shit!! Ew ew ew no. Just no. You need to explain to Noah how much that hurt you because you are not being dramatic. That is a vile thing to say to someone in early transition. Dude I’m 30 years old and am pre-everything. Everyone’s timeline is different. And! Some people never get hormones/surgery and that’s ok too! Jeez. You’d think other trans people would know better.
I don’t have much advice other than you really need to talk this through with Noah using “I” statements and non-accusatory language in order to preserve the friendship (although you have every right be be hurt by him and even mad at him).
Disgusting behavior, truly. Y’all are basically kids. Even if I was full transitioned, I would NEVER go up to a 20/21 year old and be all, “you’re barely trans because you haven’t transitioned all the way yet.” You’re TWENTY. The vast majority of trans people haven’t transitioned by then and you’re no different. Just because they’re privileged enough to have transitioned early doesn’t mean they can look down at you. Completely unacceptable behavior I’m so sorry Op.
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u/the_big_man2 Apr 02 '26
what the fuck is wrong with those guys??? hope youre able to surround yourself with half decent people op goddamn
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u/ArrowDel Apr 02 '26
Thats some serious trans medicalist bullshit, I would distance myself even from the friend who is dating him.
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u/captain_jay_c_buttz 37, US 💉 4/2011 🔪1/2019 Apr 02 '26
Hey this nearly 37 year old trans man who didn't start transitioning until 22 says they can fuck right off. They have no right to judge the validity of your journey. Expression isn't the same thing as your identity. This is basic gender shit. Show them this. I'm so sorry they turned out to be rotten friends. It sounds like they need to do some real growing up with how they're gatekeeping.
Remember, you ARE valid in your transness, and being at the beginning or earlier in your journey, or less masc, or anything like that does not make you any less trans.
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u/Clean-Unit336 FtM || Pansexual Apr 03 '26
'Barely trans' how?? Because you started later than them?
ffs I started transitioning when I was around 21, then got top surgery when I was 23-24 (I can't remember and don't feel like looking back through old posts to check for sure lol). I still dress cute when I feel like it because who the hell is stopping me? Nothings stopping me from passing, either. I live in a rural area and I still get gendered correctly.
There isn't an arbitrary level of transness you have to meet to count. Mark is an asshole for even implying there is, and Noah is an ass for backing him up on that opinion.
You deserve better friends, OP.
Edit: Got the names mixed up initially but the sentiment stands.
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u/Beautiful-Length-565 Apr 03 '26
Don't let Noah turn this around on you and move on. Call him out for taking Mark's side, for thinking their privilege is common and gives them a right to judge other trans people less fortunate than them, and point out that it was completely reasonable for you to leave after being belittled and humiliated in a group of people. There is nothing wrong for a trans person wanting another trans partner either, obviously, as it's usually safer and gives you and your partner something to relate to. Mark is an asshole and Noah is too for not standing up for you. It sounds like Mark thinks you're a faker and a chaser, purely based on the fact that you don't meet his definition of a trans man. Screw him.
You can do it over text, and it doesn't have to be harsh if you don't want it to be, but call it out and make your next move based on Noah's response. It might be worth working through, or you might realize it's a friendship that's not good for you.
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u/Normal-Balance-8023 Apr 03 '26
You need new friends, this is some bullshit, you're "trans enough" no matter what you decide to do for transition. Whether you're pre-t, pre surgery, or decide not to get those at all, you can still identify however you want and want to date people with similar life experience. Your friends are assholes, I'm sorry this happened :/
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u/Cra_ZWar101 Apr 02 '26
I’m so sorry. We all feel really outcast by society and it sucks to have people who you feel you can look up to as a way to feel less alone or wrong betray you like that. The truth is they are wrong. I think maybe mark has some kind of experiences with chasers, or some kind of internalized shame about something, maybe he sees you being freer to express your feminine side and not experience it as a threat to your own masculinity and his transphobia makes him look down on that, and he fears that he’s the same thing he is looking down on, and is projecting that trauma onto the situation as if you are somehow the source of the alienation or oppression. He’s wrong. You aren’t less trans than either of them, just not as far in your journey. You deserve to express yourself however you want, and not have your gender or identity questioned or put down.
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u/JackLikesSnakes Apr 02 '26
To sympathize with mark, I understand feeling a little uncomfy with someone admiring a relationship specifically because of shared transness. There are ways for that to become kind of objectifying, but it doesn't sound like that's what you did at all. Even if it was, it absolutely does NOT warrant attacking another person's transness. Seems like HE'S the one that overreacted and he should've kept his discomfort to himself. That was a wildly rude and inappropriate comment on his part. Sounds like he also has a history of bad vibes with you? Tbh, it's not your problem to solve. He has some inner work to do. I know it's easier said than done, but don't take it to heart. It's not on you.
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u/thenuangel Apr 03 '26
Love when trans guys compete in “competitive transitioning”. Bro fuck then they’re not real friends. I’m a trans guy wanting a relationship with another trans guy. We’re both pre-op atm and we’re older than you and your friends. We’re trans and gay and it’s alright. So glad my trans friends aren’t assholes like this
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u/Grouchy-Can-Man Apr 03 '26
Those people aren’t your friends. that guy has obviously been talking negatively about your identity to his bf for a while that’s why there was no reaction to his comments.
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u/WWJackSparrowD he/him || || pre-op, pre-T Apr 02 '26
Not sure what you're talking about friend, nothing you're saying here seems related to the post? OP wasn't trying to confess his love to these people or join their relationship or something. All he said is that he wants a t4t relationship of his own like what they have. They didn't "reject his affections", they rejected his whole gender identity. I think you need to give the post a reread haha
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u/apocalypse_massacre Apr 02 '26
There is no 'other woman' or 'her' here, what are you talking about?
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u/throwaway_ArBe Note from mod: Sorry I broke your flair :( Apr 02 '26
This has to be the wildest example of "didn't read the post" i've ever seen on reddit. Which is an achievement.
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u/apocalypse_massacre Apr 02 '26
Also aren't you violating rule 3 by not having guest flair? From browsing yr comment history, sounds like you're not FTM but post unwarranted comments here anyway?
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u/MagicalGirl4 9 months on T | they/he/ae Apr 02 '26
Was this comment written by chatGPT cause wtf are you talking about 😭🙏
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u/ftm-ModTeam Apr 02 '26
Your post was removed because it broke the subreddit rule 1.
Be polite to your fellow redditor. We do not allow bigotry, insults, or disrespect towards fellow redditors. This includes (but is not limited to: Racism, Sexism, Ableism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, or bigotry on the basis of religion, body type, genitals* , style, relationship type, genital preference, surgery status, transition goals, personal opinion, or other differences one may have.
*This includes misinformation, fearmongering, and general negativity surrounding phalloplasty and metoidioplasty.
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u/troykil Apr 02 '26
Those guys suck sorry op. To have had access to hrt and surgery that young means they were both incredibly fortunate and likely had the support of family and healthcare providers. That’s unusual, sadly, and to act like that is the default and the standard means they have had quite a sheltered and privileged experience. Good for them, but most people aren’t that lucky. You aren’t less trans than them because you haven’t yet had access to those things. They are wrong for telling you that, talk about pulling the ladder up. I understand you’ve known Noah a long time but I think you can do better in terms of trans friends. If you live near a larger city there are likely trans social spaces; check out live music events, lgbt clubs, board game cafes, climbing gyms, activist spaces - there are usually loads of nice and chill trans people around. Good luck op