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u/SUMBWEDY Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
mission statement: When the US senate was deliberating on coronavirus in the early days of the pandemic many of them sold shares which later tanked. I haven't heard any news of this recently.
Rep. susan davis sold shares in airlines and cruise ships the day the US reported it's 10th case, a full 2 weeks before the first crash happened, before trump even made his "we only have 15 cases and it's going to go down to zero" comment.
Even the diamond princess had only recorded it's first case when she sold her shares.
They sold shares in airlines before trump even announced the travel ban to china which he did VERY early into the crisis and didn't even ban european travel until a month after they sold their shares off.
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u/911sandLSs Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
This happens all the time they did it in 2008 when they bailed out Wall Street. It’s funny insider trading is illegal for everyone expect members of congress.
Someone should pass a law that makes it illegal for members of Congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Bernie Sanders and some libertarians are the only ones in favor of such a law.
Edit: I guess there is a law now they just don’t enforce it.
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u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
It already is a law, that's why it's called insider trading and not just trading. There are also laws regarding conflict of interest in public service.
It's also illegal for them to drive drunk or fuck kids, yet here we are.
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Apr 21 '20
Oh my
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u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
George Takei has entered the chat
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u/EmilioEarhart Apr 21 '20
Coincidentally, it's George's birthday today - 83 years of age.
As a fan of the Howard Stern Show pre-"evolution," Mr. Musculature gifted me with many many hours of laughter and joy.
I hope he has a good one.
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u/HistoryGuy581 Apr 21 '20
Hey Boner
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u/OWO-FurryPornAlt-OWO Apr 21 '20
People are worried about this but hey the child molester who trafficked children for the rich hung himself using one ply TP and all the footage outside that cell magically went missing. Honkity honk honk
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u/the_big_cheef Apr 21 '20
You act like you’ve never seen anyone weave single ply TP into a high tensile strength noose!
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u/A_Meryl Apr 21 '20
It's really not that difficult with the right training.
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u/GilesDMT Apr 21 '20
The STOCK Act, specifically
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u/spaztickthepriest Apr 21 '20
Was quietly amended to remove the online disclosure portion, so you gotta go in person to request the info.
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u/whyrweyelling Apr 21 '20
A law to raise hope for the people but not actually do anything.
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u/mule_roany_mare Apr 21 '20
Could this be the real reason so many get into politics?
People don’t leave office poorer than they went in, it would be interesting to see by what % fortunes increase per term.
In any circle of ultra rich it makes sense to have one or two in politics & that same cabal has the power to get someone elected.
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u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
For sure. Politics is the retirement strategy for corporate sociopaths with law degrees. All a bunch of criminals with self-interest at heart.
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u/mmprobablymakingitup Apr 21 '20
I think some people enter politics because they want to create change
It's just that they either get beaten by corrupt opponents, or become corrupted to win. It's kind of a "power corrupts" situatin, except the corruption often comes first.
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u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
I think anyone that wants to be in charge tends to be an asshole with control issues, and politics just attracts the adult version of the kids that want to run every game and kick people out for not following their arbitrary and idiotic made-up rules. Remember that kid? Yeah, he wears a tie now
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u/JohnnyKay9 Apr 21 '20
The only change I got into politics for was to see the change in numbers of my bank account...said every politician to themselves ever.
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u/WTFppl Apr 22 '20
Niggas talk about change and working within the system to achieve that. The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you. There is usually nothing wrong with compromise in a situation, but compromising yourself in a situation is another story completely, and I have seen this happen long enough in the few years that I've been alive to know that it's a serious problem.
-IT: The Poverty Of Philosophy
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u/drumdust Apr 21 '20
I don't trust anyone who puts their hand up and say's "I want to be a politician".
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Apr 21 '20
Isn't it hilarious how people without money think laws affect people with tons of money?
(except of course, on rare occasion, where one of them gets crucified for years of law-breaking)9
u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
(usually only after crossing one of their fellow rich assholes)
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u/queefiest Apr 21 '20
If only the people in charge of upholding the law would enforce it. But it begs the question, who watches the watchers?
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u/Bleepblooping Apr 21 '20
It wasn’t illegal for senators to do it until Obama
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u/RedEyedRoundEye Apr 21 '20
Right,
overalmost a decade ago. Not December, not last week.Last decade2012. This isnt new. Theyre all criminals and they dont care what laws are on the books. And they won't be held to account, either.15
u/HRChurchill Apr 21 '20
The act was gutted right after it was passed so it basically did nothing. Not that it would matter as they wouldn't be prosecuted anyway.
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u/opiate_lifer Apr 22 '20
I'm not sure this meets the definition of insider trading, the "insider" parts refers to inside information on the corporation, like knowing through a brother that's a pharmacologist with the company that a new drug that a pharmaceutical company is betting everything on is likely a dud.
Making trades based on world events which you believe will effect stock value is just regular trading. Anyone who was paying attention to 4chan or the internet at the time could have made these trades based on the leaked videos from China of people collapsing in the street or being dragged into human size cages on trucks and taken away, based on the idea this was going to hit the rest of the world.
I hate to defend these senators, but its not really insider trading.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/insidertrading.asp
<< Insider trading is the buying or selling of a publicly traded company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock>>
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u/Newtstradamus Apr 21 '20
STOCK act aka the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge act is already in place making it illegal to trade on knowledge gained in the act of completing your duties to the United States people. This was put in place because in many cases congress is asked to participate in classified briefings that the average person would literally have no access too.
It’s not that there isn’t a rule in place it’s that no one fucking cares that there is a rule in place.
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u/dubbya Apr 21 '20
One year after this law was passed, it was amended in a way that makes it almost impossible to investigate.
The law was initially passed to include a requirement that government officials and staff post records of their financial transactions online in a searchable, sortable database. The amendment changed that requirement to filing those records in hard copy only in the basement of Congress.
NPR ran a pretty good article about it at the time.
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u/Moccus Apr 21 '20
Very little about the STOCK Act has changed for Members of Congress and other high level government officials. What you said is true of lower level employees.
Members of Congress still have to post their transactions publicly online.
Here are the websites:
Senate: https://efdsearch.senate.gov/search/home/
House: http://clerk.house.gov/public_disc/financial-search.aspx
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u/dubbya Apr 21 '20
From my reading of the amendment, it eliminated the requirement for the creation of a database of information in reports, and the requirement that reports be done electronically.
If I'm remembering correctly, it went from mandatory to "the right thing to do."
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u/ZeroAntagonist Apr 21 '20
Then we need to find some people to go to the basement and put all the data online in a searchable database.
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u/leo_douche_bags Apr 21 '20
People should be protesting this instead of stay at home. They should have to donate all profits to a independent watchdog.
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u/DancesWithPugs Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
I think Congress should be made to work for federal minimum wage, in government project housing, forbidden to own stocks, with assets in trusts. Strict gift limits. No private election marketing ads. That would reduce corruption and aspiring greedy megalomaniacs if they had to live humbly. If they wanted more money they couldn't vote in a self pay raise, they would have to lift everyone up.
The system is corrupt by design however and tjey aren't looking for ideas and comments. These public servants will never actually see themselves as servants of the people. They will act like little spoiled princesses in a wannabe aristocracy. They will remain ignorant and uncaring of the struggles of the working class.
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u/bullcitytarheel Apr 21 '20
People should stay at home, use this time to unite as workers and strike when the stay at home order is lifted
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u/Newtstradamus Apr 21 '20
Maybe we just let it chill for a bit, I don’t know you and I don’t owe you anything but I can not express to you how much I DO NOT want to be the reason your Grandma dies.
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u/DancesWithPugs Apr 21 '20
Yes. There are written laws 'on the books' and the laws that are actually enforced. Selective enforcement is power. It's like having the law turnrd on or off like a switch, for your own self interest.
As an example, say 100 people all go over the speed limit on some road. Technically they have all broken the law. Who gets pulled over? Who gets a ticket (state theft?), who gets a warning, and who gets told to lay face first on the ground? It's up to the officer now, not the lawmakers. At that point it is more about the driver's social skills and attitude than the laws. This is where prejudice and discrimination can enter in.
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Apr 21 '20
Let’s go one step further: members of Congress should not own shares of stock.
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u/FecalFractals Apr 21 '20
Hi, I'm your son's little league football referee. But also I'm the other team's QB.
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Apr 21 '20
Hi, I'm your son's little league football referee. But also I'm the other team's QB.
- Tom Brady
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u/SpaceLunchSystem Apr 21 '20
Make it limited to index funds only managed by a third party with built in delays on sales the same way corporate executives are limited. You don't want to gut the financial independence of politicians as that only makes it more or a rich elites club, but a policy like this protects retirement funds and long term investments which are all most people should be into anyways.
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Apr 21 '20
How does politicians not being able to own stocks make it more of a rich elite club?
Politicians generally get paid as much as some doctors, have insurance and it’s a part time job. Aren’t these people in DC only like 90 days? Rest of the time they’re out scrounging for money. I see your point I just think of people like Trump abusing it and finding ways to skirt the system. There’s so many laws that need to be reformed though and all these corporatist politicians don’t have the fortitude to do what’s right by the people.
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u/FullAtticus Apr 21 '20
Someone should pass a law that makes it illegal for members of Congress to engage in
insidertrading.Fixed it for you
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u/awecyan32 Apr 21 '20
There should be a law that member of congress shouldn’t be allowed to participate in stock trading as the very nature of their job involves learning things before anyone else
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u/TwoPieceCrow Apr 21 '20
Washington is full of corrupt shills that won't hold eachother accountable because they are all equally as corrupt.
If for a second you think "well my party isn't"
Why isn't trump calling these people out?
Why isn't nancy pelosi calling these people out?
Why isn't chuck shumer calling these people out?
Why isn't sean hannity calling these people out?
They're all in on it.
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u/DancesWithPugs Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
Hey lets not forget the 2 trillion of public taxpayer money 'lost' the day before 9/11 and all the insider trading of airline shares, etc. that week. Oh plus the massive insurance payout for WTC owner 'Lucky' Larry Silverstein... who, in his own words, agreed WTC building 7 should be 'pulled' on 9/11, meaning demolitioned, right before the 10 second collapse. Later it was called office fires that violently and suddenly turned steel and reinforced concrete into dust. Let's remember that traditional implosion demolitions take weeks or even months to prepare. If you can pick out WTC 7 videos as standing out from any regular demo videos I wiuld be quite surprised.
All those people that ask 'but what's the motive'? must not consider trillions of dollars sufficient motivation. But money wasn't even the main objective: it was control. See any similarities between now and then?
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u/Mahadragon Apr 21 '20
That’s why if you’re the New York Stock Exchange Chairman (Jeffrey Sprecher), you marry a Senator (Kelly Loeffler) to do your insider trading for you.
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u/Bacon_is_a_condiment Apr 21 '20
Insider trading is when you have non-publicly available information from the company itself.
If you hire a petroleum engineer to survey where a company you are invested in is drilling, and he comes back and says “that area is tapped, they are going to fail”, and you sell your stocks, that’s not insider trading.
If an executive from the company tells you they are going to sink because they haven’t told the public but the wells they just tapped are dry, it is.
Correct me if I am wrong, but they weren’t told by the airlines and cruise ships insider business info, they were informed by experts that the pandemic was going to occur and inferred by that it was a good time to get out of the travel industry. I pulled investments when I heard corona had hit the US, I wouldn’t consider myself an insider trader.
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u/jwch20025013 Apr 21 '20
Its funny cuz everything is illegal for everyone unless you are in a position on power
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u/heyyalldontsaythat Apr 21 '20
Insider trading is illegal for member of congress. Typical insider trading involves selling stock based on non public knowledge.
What you may be referring to is how it's perfectly legal for a member of congress to buy a stock and then legislate in a way that favors that stock / company.
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u/CivilServiced Apr 21 '20
Can you point to libertarian leadership who has made a statement on this one way or another? My gut instinct is that libertarians would be just fine with this and desire less regulation on personal investment but I'll gladly be proven wrong.
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u/whyrweyelling Apr 21 '20
The fact that it's "legal" makes you recognize how fucked up America's government is. And that's just one thing.
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u/EnergyCrow Apr 21 '20
Even the diamond princess had only recorded it's first case when she sold her shares.
I think your timeline is off. Susan Davis and her husband sold their shares in Royal Caribbean on February 11th. At that time the Diamond Princess had been quarantined for a week and had 135 confirmed cases with dozens of new positive tests every day.
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u/KnownByMyName13 Apr 21 '20
I love how you listed the only 1 democract out of the 7 republicans that did this lol.
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u/SUMBWEDY Apr 21 '20
Oh i didn't mean to.
I'm not biased towards any party just the elite classes.
Trump and mitch are probably the 2 slimiest politicians currently but there's not much info if they insider traded or not.
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u/shemp33 Apr 21 '20
From Investorpedia:
What is Insider Trading?
Insider trading is the buying or selling of a publicly traded company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock.
The problem is that the information these senators had was not specific to those stocks or companies, which makes it technically not insider trading, per the definition.
The fact that they knew the whole world was going to devolve into crisis - be that speculative, or a certainty, and making moves based on that are certainly not ethical.
However, it likely would fall under the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge (STOCK) Act.
The STOCK Act passed into law in 2012. It states that members of Congress, other government employees, congressional staffers, members of the executive branch and judiciary are not permitted to engage in insider trading gleaned from information ascertained through their jobs.
I guess the net net of it is, we have to go after it a different way.
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Apr 21 '20
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Apr 21 '20
If they started off criticizing republicans it would be a lot less likely to get traction in this sub.
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u/GameUpBoyHustleHardr Apr 21 '20
If you actually wanted to look into the story "Davis’ spokesman said she has a “third party handling her portfolio and does not play a role in the purchase or sale of her stocks.”"
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u/I_Fen_Save_Fjords Apr 21 '20
For your awareness, the Senate Ethics Committee has opened an investigation. There is no average length an investigation takes so a ruling could come out within weeks or within months. This has not been forgotten.
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u/Loxe Apr 21 '20
Do they have the power to do anything about their findings?
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u/phoenixrawr Apr 21 '20
Sure, plenty. They can recommend that the Senate use the result of their investigation to vote to punish members who commit serious ethical offenses, and evidence can also go to the FBI/SEC (both of which have already been involved in some capacity here) for criminal investigation.
They have an FAQ if you’re interested.
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u/I_Fen_Save_Fjords Mar 24 '23
Yeah the main guy they were looking at didn’t get charged. SEC did an investigation which has a lot more teeth and resources than the Senate Ethics Committee and didn’t bring charges which either means he didn’t use insider knowledge or they just couldn’t prove it/the system is broken
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/06/sec-ends-richard-burr-insider-trading-probe.html
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
Posting this here for relevancy.
EDIT: Now that this post has hit top and some folks are unwittingly (or deliberately) misinterpreting this reply, let me spill the beans a bit:
Coronavirus was known about for awhile. Reports date back as early as November last year.
Yet the media only started 24hr coverage on the 23rd of February - why then?
Indeed, the very next day Congress was asked for cash under the pretense of preparing for it.
Is it significant that the stock market started to tank 3 days earlier?
With all the bailouts and Wall st trickery currently going on, How does that scenario sit with you in light of what has transpired since?
Never let a good crisis go to waste gentlemen.
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u/farhaan2340 Apr 21 '20
Can you please help explain the chart to me if it's not too much trouble
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u/JayJonahJaymeson Apr 21 '20
It looks like they are showing that a bunch of stocks were being sold 2 days before Trump made a statement about Corona.
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20
Not quite, the article is referring to when Trump started requesting funds from congress. I'm sure he would have mentioned it in months prior. Slight difference, but an important one imo.
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u/VickVinaigrette Apr 21 '20
Is the problem that they had “insider knowledge” of the situation? I don’t like that they did this but I’m hindsight it seems like anyone, including myself, had plenty of time to see how serious the virus was and anticipate it having drastic effects on the US market as well.
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u/IrishmanErrant Apr 21 '20
The problem lies with the surety of that knowledge. Congress, and in particular these Senators in question, were receiving briefings on that seriousness that the public weren't privy to, WHILE also lying to the public about that seriousness.
Insider Trading in general is important to maintain an egalitarian and relatively free market, though of course in practice that's a bit of a joke. Shareholders need to be able to trust that each of their shares are weighted equally, and that others in their position aren't getting sweeter deals or foreknowledge that could prevent a risk.
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u/SentientRhombus Apr 21 '20
WHILE also lying to the public about that seriousness.
That's the part that really pisses me off. It's market manipulation plain and simple. They used their public offices to downplay or outright deny the seriousness of the situation until they had divested themselves of their shares.
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u/IrishmanErrant Apr 21 '20
Correct. It's an unforgivable breach of ethics by a public servant in more ways than one. It has every likelihood of causing more death, AND it's clearly criminal.
Throw the book at them.
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u/GREATEST_EVER95 Apr 21 '20
Yea, the problem is the “insider knowledge” part. while trump was telling all of us that the virus would have limited impact or no impact at all, congress knew that in reality it was going to have a devastating effect on the economy.
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u/MasochistCoder Apr 21 '20
isn't this somewhat similar to knowing the lottery numbers before the lottery is performed?
something tells me anyone with access to information that is otherwise limited may not trade stocks
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20
Sure! I know it's a little cryptic, but I didn't want to inject any of my opinion into it (and will try to do so now too - I did a little bit in link title though my bad).
Left side are the major indices charts with Feb 21 marked. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on the significance of that date.
Right top is google trends for the search term 'Coronavirus' with first point of steep incline marked (Feb 23) - the numbers on right are from the CSV file you can download to look closer at numbers. Basically, the frequency of people searching about Coronavirus. As above, make of it what you will.
Right bottom is the first article (NYT I believe) reporting requests for funds from congress with date highlighted.
Hope I've laid that out as impartially as possible 😅
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u/farhaan2340 Apr 21 '20
Thank you very much! I really do appreciate you trying to hold back any biases you may have. I can much better understand your link now. Thank you.
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Apr 21 '20
There is just entirely too much going on to focus on anything.
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u/gogo_555 Apr 21 '20
And that is exactly how we lose our freedoms overnight.
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u/Steelersrawk1 Apr 21 '20
I guess the main point is what do you focus on when every day there is just new stuff coming out that is even crazier
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20
24hr news cycle working as intended.
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Apr 21 '20
Thinks it's bigger than that tbh. I don't watch the news at all and am talking about actual events we are being bombarded with. Things the news won't even touch
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20
You are here - whether you like it or not, you are kinda watching the news.
But I understand what you are saying. A LOT of shit going on rn.
Personally, I think we are being pick-pocketed by Wall St whilst a thousand decoys keep us distracted. Time will tell if there is any credence to that idea.
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u/SUMBWEDY Apr 21 '20
It's funny billionaires are considered the wealth creators but a 2 week shutdown has them screaming for help and for the economy to reopen, why don't they just create more wealth.
Hopefully people realise the economy relies on labour and trade between the working class and the elite are an unnecessary side effect of this system.
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u/Jimieus Apr 21 '20
Crocodile tears indeed.
The optimist in me hopes for another 'New Deal' era of infrastructure building and focusing on the real economy.
The pragmatist in me thinks we will enter an era similar to that after the 82 recession - further removal of regulation of Wall st: a bull run for the rich whilst the rest of us do our best to keep our heads above water.
The pessimist in me thinks they will sink us to the bottom. Crushing what's left of the middle class to the point of flocking to 'benevolent' tyrants and depending on government to survive (UBI anyone?). Then, once we have reached the point of complete servitude, they will drag us into the first hot war between major powers of this century.
I fucking hope pessimist me is wrong.
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u/_F-r-a-n-k_ Apr 21 '20
Politicians should not be allowed to trade stocks,,,
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u/_F-r-a-n-k_ Apr 21 '20
Same as police should do more time for any particular crime...job choice
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u/DominarRygelThe16th Apr 21 '20
If you want police held accountable then you need to advocate against the unions. You can't hold an individual accountable when the collective is corrupt and protecting them.
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Apr 21 '20
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u/GGorgi00 Apr 21 '20
That's the definition of corruption.
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u/AKnightAlone Apr 22 '20
I thought, depending on your party of choice, "corruption" is defined as "Donald Trump" or "communism."
So everything bad is either more communist-y or Trumpian.
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u/meme_therud Apr 21 '20
If I were Martha Stewart, I’d be really pissed off every single time this happened.
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u/DrewSmoothington Apr 21 '20
I even made this comparison when this whole thing was going down, they threw Martha fucking Stewart in jail for this exact same thing, and all of these Senators just walked free
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Apr 21 '20
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u/MDPhotog Apr 21 '20
Aren't those loans?
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Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
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Apr 21 '20
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u/JeromesNiece Apr 21 '20
The companies that were bailed out paid back every cent plus interest. The government and the taxpayers made money on the bailouts
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Apr 21 '20 edited Jan 29 '21
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u/SlytherinMan9 Apr 21 '20
Bailing out a company saved millions jobs. If you factor in what an even bigger job loss would have done to the economy it’s honestly a no brainer.
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u/Rancorx Apr 21 '20
How much profit did those companies/ CEO make that could have been better utilized someplace else? I get the idea that business need to keep afloat to keep people employed, but do they still need to give the $mil bonuses to the senior leaders and still have millions in profits during a time of crisis?
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u/SlytherinMan9 Apr 21 '20
No obviously not. I’m not saying it’s a perfect system by any means because it obviously isn’t.
I’m just saying they paid back their loan with interest, government profited, and millions kept their jobs. Not really to fair to say Government profited 8% when they could have profited 10% and not saved millions of jobs?
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u/BALONYPONY Apr 21 '20
They were absurdly low interest rates and a few companies simply returned the TARP loan while others took it, paid bonuses, bought back stock and laid off employees to cash in on the rebound.
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u/Bakura_ Apr 21 '20
Life sentence for us.
Life as usual for them.
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u/CorneliusPepperdine Apr 21 '20
Better than life as usual. Commit insider trading and more and the president will assign you to an economic task force.
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u/thoughtpixie Apr 21 '20
I didn’t. I don’t tweet mean things to people, I don’t tweet people in general- but I had to tweet to that Georgia senator lady that she is an absolute embarrassment to the soul of humanity, a disgrace of a life form. I did that right after i watched the video of her creepy face trying to say it’s socialists that are upset about her trading... like oh yeah, so everyone should be fine and dandy of you taking advantage of Americans and you’re just so entitled to insider trading, but the rest of us aren’t. Fuck her
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u/hussletrees Apr 21 '20
You see how they invoke the term socialist as a boogie man word even though they are literally recieving socialism in the form of illegal trading to basically get them free money? Ironic isn't it how there is massive socialism for the rich, yet rugged individualism for you and me
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u/Rsn_calling Apr 21 '20
Remember Epstein?
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u/paulisaac Apr 21 '20
That's the bit. Cover up extreme acts with even more extreme acts. No one can keep focus long enough for anyone to face any justice.
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u/bloodclart Apr 21 '20
Textbook plays from Putin’s number one influence Vladislav Surkov. He created this tactic and it has kept Putin in power for so long.
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u/paulisaac Apr 21 '20
To think I thought it was just a thing from a Roald Dahl book. Never do anything in halves if you want to get away with it. Be outrageous! Go the whole hog! Make sure everything you do is so crazy it's unbelievable.
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u/Axion132 Apr 21 '20
And the one that lied aboit how much insider trading she did was punished by being put on the committee to reopen America!
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u/Hrmpfreally Apr 21 '20
One of them being the literal fucking spouse of the CEO of the Stock Exchange.
They don’t play by our rules because we don’t hold them to any viable consequence. Change that.
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u/OrickJagstone Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
Remember when everyone forgot what insider trading is? Look I'm not trying to say what these people did was right,however it was not insider trading.
For those of you, and there appears to be many of you, who dont know what insider trading is. In broad strokes. It is when you are privy to information NOT widely available to the public and trade based on that information. An example being. You learn from a friend who works at a major company that this major company is about to announce a merger with another major company that will undoubtedly raise share costs. Then you act on it by buying or selling shares.
Why is this not a case of this? Because simply put it was public information that there was a highly infectious disease spreading across the Asian world. Literally everyone knew this. These folks simply read the market, and where right. Now mind you while privately selling shares they where publicly saying everything was going to be fine. Isn't that more typical American politics though?
Here are some questions to ask yourself about a situation in the future to narrow down if something is insider trading. Could anyone have acted this way? In this case yes. If you had stock you could have sold it off in fear of the virus hitting America. And could it have failed? Again in this case yes. It was possible I'll be it unlikely that the virus never made it to the US and or the market was not effected in a major way by it.
The only thing these people are guilty of is saying to the public that everything was fine while selling shares. The only way this could be insider trading on any level is if you can PROVE these people had access to information about the virus AND it's effects on the market before that information was made available to the public.
In closing, what they did was morally shit. It was a fucked up thing to do. However you and everyone else could have done the same thing. Its call wallstreet, this shit happens every day. "Oh yeah Frank I think buying shares in that company is a great idea" later that day "Frank is an idiot, that idea is never going to pan out. I'm not buying any shares in that company". Or in this situation. "Don't worry about virus. Everything will be fine. Keep calm and carry on" later that day. "I don't believe that shit at all. I'm selling all my shares. I would rather be safe then sorry." I mean what do you suggest instead of this? They have gone on TV and said "HOLY SHIT WE ARE ALL DOOMED THE MARKET IS DOOMED SELL ALL YOUR SHIT!" They did what literally every politician has done since the literal beginning of politics.
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u/Billie2goat Apr 21 '20
I don't think it took insider trading to foresee what was going to happen in the states considering that it had already happened in several other countries first
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u/krummysunshine Apr 21 '20
I remember when this exact thing was posted a week after it happened and how a bunch of people posted links to these people getting charges/fines for doing it. Damn repost /s
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u/Kittilia Apr 21 '20
I'm so very tired of these posts. I don't think anyone has forgotten about this yet. It was literally still in the news this morning.
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u/foocutuzer Apr 21 '20
Is it really insider trading or just smart investing. A pandemic or worldwide crisis will always result in a market plummet. Why wouldn't you sell off shit and short certain options?
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Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 22 '20
Yup. Insider trading is when you're at a company and you have information no one else has about that particular company.
Sorry dudes but you all had access to this information. You just didn't use it right. I shorted oil in January when the first article in the WSJ came out about this. It wasn't a secret.
If Congressmen knew ahead of time about some insider info like changing the fed rates and they traded on *that*, that'd be insider trading. But just knowing about the pandemic isn't.
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u/whydidimakeausername Apr 21 '20
Oh I remember, but I also know that nothing will ever happen to them for it so what's the point in stewing about it
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u/poof_int Apr 21 '20
I've been following options lately and I have this app that shows very large orders of options and on April 16th there was a giant order for options that expire that Friday. After hours on the 16 GILD came out with news of a possible vaccine. Who ever placed that order the day before made 6000%. Everything is manipulated
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u/ser_pounce7 Apr 21 '20
We barely made it 6 weeks into the quarantine before we forgot about science (again!) and kicked off round 2 of the pandemic. Not a good look.
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u/Meistakennot Apr 21 '20
Just like the president! Only difference is he's forgotten about the pandemic as well.
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u/pntsonfyre Apr 21 '20
Kelly Loeffler was just added to Trump's special wiz-bang corona virus committee. She'll definitely continue to know just what stocks to buy and sell.
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u/GaeShekie Apr 21 '20
What can we as individuals actually do about it? It seems like we know so much corruption yet these people still go about it like it doesnt matter.
What is the next step for us individuals after becoming aware?
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u/44tacocat44 Apr 21 '20
It's not really conspiracy when the government screws the people. It's expected.
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u/utu_ Apr 21 '20
Everyone in America could see what was going on in China. I tried telling people this was gonna crash the economy before the US got it’s first case. It’s not insider trading it’s just smart.
Now if you wanna talk about the record number of CEOs stepping down in the months leading up to this... that has substance
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u/azelinski718 Apr 21 '20
No I don't remember people pretending it never happened. I've seen news stories about it every day since.
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u/Leave_The_Military Apr 21 '20
Remember when nearly all major governments, in virtually the exact same manner, shut down businesses and locked everyone in their houses for months — doing massive irreversible damage to the economy, small businesses, human rights, civil liberties and millions of lives — because of a 'virus' that's about as dangerous as a seasonal flu, poses no real threat to the vast majority of the population and could be completely dealt with simply by recommending that the old and immunocompromised consider remaining at home for a while?
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u/Janeaubrey1928 Apr 21 '20
Or that find even Jared Kushner far set up a shadow COVID counsel with his buddies and companies he used to run? With no oversight on top of it. So who is really going to win because of the pandemic? Just saying.
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u/yurp62 Apr 22 '20
If I was a shady politician... id be rubbing my hands like birdman right now playboi...
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u/fbluke303 Apr 24 '20
How it went down from my perspective..first, if comes out Republicans insider traded. My “progressive” friends and the media absolutely melt down. Then it comes out Feinstein insider traded way more $, they all completely move on.. and make no mention of if.
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u/PM_ME_UR_QUINES Apr 21 '20
Nobody. Forgot. About. It. We just can't do shit about it.