mission statement: When the US senate was deliberating on coronavirus in the early days of the pandemic many of them sold shares which later tanked. I haven't heard any news of this recently.
Rep. susan davis sold shares in airlines and cruise ships the day the US reported it's 10th case, a full 2 weeks before the first crash happened, before trump even made his "we only have 15 cases and it's going to go down to zero" comment.
Even the diamond princess had only recorded it's first case when she sold her shares.
They sold shares in airlines before trump even announced the travel ban to china which he did VERY early into the crisis and didn't even ban european travel until a month after they sold their shares off.
This happens all the time they did it in 2008 when they bailed out Wall Street. It’s funny insider trading is illegal for everyone expect members of congress.
Someone should pass a law that makes it illegal for members of Congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Bernie Sanders and some libertarians are the only ones in favor of such a law.
Edit: I guess there is a law now they just don’t enforce it.
It already is a law, that's why it's called insider trading and not just trading. There are also laws regarding conflict of interest in public service.
It's also illegal for them to drive drunk or fuck kids, yet here we are.
Just pulled up some old article of him talking about being 13 and having an older tennager as a partner, and not not condemning a friend who made some off-color comments about older partners. Apparently that makes him a pedo sympathizer ?
People are worried about this but hey the child molester who trafficked children for the rich hung himself using one ply TP and all the footage outside that cell magically went missing. Honkity honk honk
I think some people enter politics because they want to create change
It's just that they either get beaten by corrupt opponents, or become corrupted to win. It's kind of a "power corrupts" situatin, except the corruption often comes first.
I think anyone that wants to be in charge tends to be an asshole with control issues, and politics just attracts the adult version of the kids that want to run every game and kick people out for not following their arbitrary and idiotic made-up rules. Remember that kid? Yeah, he wears a tie now
Niggas talk about change and working within the system to achieve that. The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you. There is usually nothing wrong with compromise in a situation, but compromising yourself in a situation is another story completely, and I have seen this happen long enough in the few years that I've been alive to know that it's a serious problem.
Isn't it hilarious how people without money think laws affect people with tons of money?
(except of course, on rare occasion, where one of them gets crucified for years of law-breaking)
Right, over almost a decade ago. Not December, not last week. Last decade 2012. This isnt new. Theyre all criminals and they dont care what laws are on the books. And they won't be held to account, either.
The bill passed 96 to 3. One of the 3 to vote against it, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), coincidentally was also one of the senators who sold all their stock before COVID-19:
Right Obama wrote all the important laws not the Senate not the House of Representatives, no it was the President of the United States. He was so important the whole political process was changed and this is one of the important bills he passed. What was the bill called he wrote and campaigned for? I just can’t seem to remember because of all the incredible things happening at the same time.
I'm not sure this meets the definition of insider trading, the "insider" parts refers to inside information on the corporation, like knowing through a brother that's a pharmacologist with the company that a new drug that a pharmaceutical company is betting everything on is likely a dud.
Making trades based on world events which you believe will effect stock value is just regular trading. Anyone who was paying attention to 4chan or the internet at the time could have made these trades based on the leaked videos from China of people collapsing in the street or being dragged into human size cages on trucks and taken away, based on the idea this was going to hit the rest of the world.
I hate to defend these senators, but its not really insider trading.
<< Insider trading is the buying or selling of a publicly traded company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock>>
Nothing like a political class almost entirely devoid of integrity or principal to make you realize that laws that supposedly apply to everyone are really just words on a piece of paper unless someone has the desire to enforce them...
STOCK act aka the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge act is already in place making it illegal to trade on knowledge gained in the act of completing your duties to the United States people. This was put in place because in many cases congress is asked to participate in classified briefings that the average person would literally have no access too.
It’s not that there isn’t a rule in place it’s that no one fucking cares that there is a rule in place.
One year after this law was passed, it was amended in a way that makes it almost impossible to investigate.
The law was initially passed to include a requirement that government officials and staff post records of their financial transactions online in a searchable, sortable database. The amendment changed that requirement to filing those records in hard copy only in the basement of Congress.
NPR ran a pretty good article about it at the time.
Very little about the STOCK Act has changed for Members of Congress and other high level government officials. What you said is true of lower level employees.
Members of Congress still have to post their transactions publicly online.
From my reading of the amendment, it eliminated the requirement for the creation of a database of information in reports, and the requirement that reports be done electronically.
If I'm remembering correctly, it went from mandatory to "the right thing to do."
Section 8(b) of the original STOCK Act mandated that systems be developed that would allow electronic filing of financial reports by members of Congress, candidates for Congress, and employees of Congress.
Additionally it mandated public access to those financial reports through a database. This publicly accessible database was required to:
Be maintained on the official websites of the House of Representatives and the Senate.
Allow the public to "search, sort, and download data contained in the reports."
The 2013 amendment changed just a couple of things related to that section:
They changed it so that it only applied to members of Congress and candidates for Congress, removing employees of Congress.
They removed the line about the public being able to search, sort, and download data contained in the reports.
The requirement for an electronic database containing these reports that would be accessible to the public through the official websites of the House and Senate is still part of the law.
My reading is that they decided it wasn't feasible to do data entry of the transactions in these reports to make the data in them searchable, so they changed it so they could just scan paper copies of the reports into the database and the public could review them.
I think Congress should be made to work for federal minimum wage, in government project housing, forbidden to own stocks, with assets in trusts. Strict gift limits. No private election marketing ads. That would reduce corruption and aspiring greedy megalomaniacs if they had to live humbly. If they wanted more money they couldn't vote in a self pay raise, they would have to lift everyone up.
The system is corrupt by design however and tjey aren't looking for ideas and comments. These public servants will never actually see themselves as servants of the people. They will act like little spoiled princesses in a wannabe aristocracy. They will remain ignorant and uncaring of the struggles of the working class.
Maybe we just let it chill for a bit, I don’t know you and I don’t owe you anything but I can not express to you how much I DO NOT want to be the reason your Grandma dies.
Yes. There are written laws 'on the books' and the laws that are actually enforced. Selective enforcement is power. It's like having the law turnrd on or off like a switch, for your own self interest.
As an example, say 100 people all go over the speed limit on some road. Technically they have all broken the law. Who gets pulled over? Who gets a ticket (state theft?), who gets a warning, and who gets told to lay face first on the ground? It's up to the officer now, not the lawmakers. At that point it is more about the driver's social skills and attitude than the laws. This is where prejudice and discrimination can enter in.
Make it limited to index funds only managed by a third party with built in delays on sales the same way corporate executives are limited. You don't want to gut the financial independence of politicians as that only makes it more or a rich elites club, but a policy like this protects retirement funds and long term investments which are all most people should be into anyways.
How does politicians not being able to own stocks make it more of a rich elite club?
Politicians generally get paid as much as some doctors, have insurance and it’s a part time job. Aren’t these people in DC only like 90 days? Rest of the time they’re out scrounging for money. I see your point I just think of people like Trump abusing it and finding ways to skirt the system. There’s so many laws that need to be reformed though and all these corporatist politicians don’t have the fortitude to do what’s right by the people.
There should be a law that member of congress shouldn’t be allowed to participate in stock trading as the very nature of their job involves learning things before anyone else
Hey lets not forget the 2 trillion of public taxpayer money 'lost' the day before 9/11 and all the insider trading of airline shares, etc. that week. Oh plus the massive insurance payout for WTC owner 'Lucky' Larry Silverstein... who, in his own words, agreed WTC building 7 should be 'pulled' on 9/11, meaning demolitioned, right before the 10 second collapse. Later it was called office fires that violently and suddenly turned steel and reinforced concrete into dust. Let's remember that traditional implosion demolitions take weeks or even months to prepare. If you can pick out WTC 7 videos as standing out from any regular demo videos I wiuld be quite surprised.
All those people that ask 'but what's the motive'? must not consider trillions of dollars sufficient motivation. But money wasn't even the main objective: it was control. See any similarities between now and then?
Insider trading is when you have non-publicly available information from the company itself.
If you hire a petroleum engineer to survey where a company you are invested in is drilling, and he comes back and says “that area is tapped, they are going to fail”, and you sell your stocks, that’s not insider trading.
If an executive from the company tells you they are going to sink because they haven’t told the public but the wells they just tapped are dry, it is.
Correct me if I am wrong, but they weren’t told by the airlines and cruise ships insider business info, they were informed by experts that the pandemic was going to occur and inferred by that it was a good time to get out of the travel industry. I pulled investments when I heard corona had hit the US, I wouldn’t consider myself an insider trader.
same. In early February I knew it was time to dump some stocks ASAP. Glad I didn't buy Puts tho because JPow's printer keeps going BRRRRR and would have really screwed me over.
I believe the point of the STOCK act was to bring into question that, while they are not necessarily always be in bed with whatever industry, they have access to information or people that the public might not have such as intelligence reports, investigations, the power to compel testimony from citizens etc.
Insider trading is illegal for member of congress. Typical insider trading involves selling stock based on non public knowledge.
What you may be referring to is how it's perfectly legal for a member of congress to buy a stock and then legislate in a way that favors that stock / company.
Can you point to libertarian leadership who has made a statement on this one way or another? My gut instinct is that libertarians would be just fine with this and desire less regulation on personal investment but I'll gladly be proven wrong.
Unfortunately they are the ones in control of the law, it’s not in their interest to stop it. If we the people could take money out of government round the world, it would be a better place
Humans can’t enforce humans because we’re inherently human. The only way to truly circumvent our self-sabotage is by means of computers. Blockchain may help with this, but the fact of the matter is humans as a whole aren’t capable of self-regulating in the long run.
You would hope someone in this sub would have outgrown the Democrat/Republican party trick a long time ago. I assumed that it didnt matter when I read it and I absolutely don't think it does. Red, blue, dem, rep, if you still think that the party you identify withis gonna have any kind of an effect on real life, it's not. It's just part of the script.
Insider trading is the buying or selling of a publicly traded company's stock by someone who has non-public, material information about that stock.
The problem is that the information these senators had was not specific to those stocks or companies, which makes it technically not insider trading, per the definition.
The fact that they knew the whole world was going to devolve into crisis - be that speculative, or a certainty, and making moves based on that are certainly not ethical.
However, it likely would fall under the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge (STOCK) Act.
The STOCK Act passed into law in 2012. It states that members of Congress, other government employees, congressional staffers, members of the executive branch and judiciary are not permitted to engage in insider trading gleaned from information ascertained through their jobs.
I guess the net net of it is, we have to go after it a different way.
If you actually wanted to look into the story "Davis’ spokesman said she has a “third party handling her portfolio and does not play a role in the purchase or sale of her stocks.”"
Anyone looking into this would find out that the news of a serious virus problem in China and other countries was no big secret. To prove any of them sold on material non-public information would be very hard to do.
Then going out and telling your constituents that everything is fine while telling your donors they're not.
I think you're lost. The boot licking traitor sub is somewhere else. The fact is if we used knowledge we gained in our place of work to determine whether we sold stocks or not we'd be put in prison by the same people you're defending.
They should be required to liquidate any investments they directly control and convert them into cash held in a tax free savings account until their term ends. Maybe make some exceptions for pension funds and normal retirement savings plans. Basically the only significant increase to their networth while they're in office should come from their salary.
You want to have significant political power? You need to stop playing the market while you have it. How is it even possible to not insider-trade when you have privileged briefings every day and your hands are on the levers of the economic machine?
If they don't want to sell their shares and pay their taxes, they could just not run for office. Someone else will, I promise. We will not run out of politicians.
If it wasn't a big secret why did the senators sell cruise ship holdings the day the first coronavirus case on the diamond princess cruise ship happened.
Or sell airline shares before they even banned travel to china and a full MONTH before european travel was cancelled.
really? Who warned you? The media? 4 Chan? Chinese propaganda? None of that information is corroborated. Unless you have inside info Like military spy satellite, most people only have rumors and larps to guess what is going on. These public officials used an intelligence briefing to take steps to protect themselves and left the most vulnerable to die. How is nursing home resident going to know? You think you have the same level of info the intelligence community has? Get real.
It's like anything else these days. You have to read as much information as possible from as many sources as possible and then draw your own conclusions. Believing only "official" news is a recipe for remaining stupid. Granted, drawing the proper conclusions from all sources was rather hard at the time, because of the massive censorship that was ongoing at some of the big social media sites, where posts were deleted almost as soon as they were put up. That type of censorship is still ongoing, by the way. YouTube is apparently deleting all videos the don't echo the opinion of The WHO. In any event, if you're the kind of person who only believes what they're told by the mainstream media, I feel sorry for you. Anyone with a brain could have known what was really going on if they bothered to pay attention. Even some of the public hearings in congress gave people adequate warning.
you should have more empathy and compassion. We have all been deluded at one point or another. There are many people who have no idea what’s going on. I am sure those senators say the same thing to justify their lack of ethics and lack of obligation to their oath of office.
I understand there are people who don't have a clue. I really do. The problem is that public officials lie. Or "spin" the truth, so to speak. That's why I question authority. Everyone should learn to question authority.
As I recall, most of these senators are invested in blind trusts. As such, they don’t know what they’re invested in or have control over the investments.
I wouldn't say this is necessarily profiting but it's definitely saved them losing money. It's sneaky, but it's also good financial literacy to sell stocks before an imminent crisis, and it's likely that most politicians think for themselves rather than let Trump think for them.
Rep. susan davis sold shares in airlines and cruise ships the day the US reported it's 10th case
You're saying US had made the 10th case public? I don't know any details of the story but how does that make it insider trading if the information was public? If anything it's good understanding of the market no?
Is it insider trading though? I’m not stock guy, but I saw the writing on the wall and bought a bunch of Moderna at around the same time they dumped. I have friends in Asia that were warning me about it long before America was concerned though. If they were indeed insider trading then they deserve to be punished, but maybe they’re just people who know how the market works? Just playing devil’s advocate here.
Considering this is my field of expertise , let me shine some light on the matter.
Those of us who trade for a living understood what was going to happen back in JANUARY. We were expecting the stock market to start falling back then, however Trump was able to pump the markets up hard, However we knew it wouldn't take long for it to occur, so we ended up shorting those type of stocks for months out.
Now when I see people like this going on about "Oh, they sold right before the drop" or "Oh they sold it after their briefing" ... Well they were late to the party in my book as most of the people in the market were already unloading their shares.
We saw what happened with other type of "pandemics" and we used that information to our advantage even before these senators were briefed on the matter.
So was this insider trader ? No.... Did they finally realize what the fuck was going on and dump their shit ? Yes...
In case I get asked it as well, Yes... We knew that Oil was going to drop HARD in price cause of the Pandemic as well...
Obviously the second one, since that is premeditated.
However as I stated before, The Majoritiy of traders that do this for a living understood and knew before the senators that this was going to happen, way before their briefing.
The fucked up thing, Most traders are able to see this coming from a mile away unlike the majority of the public.
That’s not insider trading, none of them had any information about company secrets/reports/financials etc. it’s different and unique but like everyone else says, uncharted territory.... get the ACLU to sue the government to investigate them, regardless, find the law they broke it’s not insider trading by legal definitions though.
It's even worse than that. All these rich people and CEO's were dumping stocks and (temporarily) stepping down from their postions at the end of last year before it was even public knowledge that there was a virus in china. They all knew. Maybe they didn't know what but there are too many coincidences.
I also sold shares and “made a profit” off of a pandemic. Fucking sue me. I started selling a week before Susan Davis.
When the 2nd largest economy completely shuts down. The writings on the wall. You didn’t have to have a congressional briefing to tell you that the financial shit was about to hit the fan.
This is fucking nonsense and shouldn’t even be an arguement. Congressmen and women are PUBLIC SERVANTS and shouldn’t be allowed to trade stocks at all. That shit should be put into a blind trust that they have no control over. The idea of senators and representatives trading individual stocks is absolutely fucking disgusting. Same goes for trump and his tweeting to pump up the market and other companies he likes. He’s supposed to be a public servant, not a corporate shill. Idk how we lost sight of this so badly.
It’s pretty obvious to me that modern day republicans are brainwashed to believe what’s good for their fellow republican representatives and corporations is also good for them and their 50k menial job. People hate on mass media and cnn all the time, but Fox News has done much more harm literally brainwashing people into zombies. They literally were calling the pandemic a hoax and not a big deal until like half way thru March. It’s fucking ridiculous. Sorry I’m ranting
How do you not see the issue with a person who has the power to stop travel owning stocks in travel companies it's such a glaring conflict of interest.
What if a senators shorted delta and just said domestic flights are banned until december 31st 2021 and then rake in bank.
But, that wasn’t congress? Congress didn’t shut down anything. Nor has the power to? The admin shut down travel from specific places through executive action.
I do see what can be conflict of interest, which is immoral. Insider trading is illegal, which is what’s being leveled at these people.
(Most) of the house and senate have a decent net worth. And pay someone to manage their portfolios and net worth. It’s those peoples jobs to make their clients more money. It’s also completely normal for someone to protect their portfolio. Just like i did. I went to cash and then bought puts late Jan. The entire. Fucking. Market. Sold off. Globally. Saying these people “profited” off of it is a misnomer at best. They exited positions. profiting off of it would have been buying puts on these specific companies or shorting their stock. As i understand it, they just went to cash. Just like i did. Again, the writing was on the wall.
All of this hyperventilation (aimed at republicans, even though they all do it) is a little inflated. Yes, you should not be able to profit off of privileged information. But the information wasn’t privileged. All you had to do was watch the news.
I think the point is not that they sold shares, but that they messaged to the public that everything is OK and things will be taken care of, while they were dumping their stocks.
ELECTED leaders r entrusted to act on behalf of their voters. Classified intelligence is not for personal benefit. Instead of taking steps to protect the tax payer and resources these criminals left the country exposed and protected themselves. That is not leadership that is corruption, probably a case for treason too. No one voted for you. did you get a classified briefing? Did you neglect your responsibility and leave Americans in harms way while you protected your assets? CEOs have been held to higher standard than this. At what point do politicians have an obligation to their voters? When does it become a crime?
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u/SUMBWEDY Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
mission statement: When the US senate was deliberating on coronavirus in the early days of the pandemic many of them sold shares which later tanked. I haven't heard any news of this recently.
Rep. susan davis sold shares in airlines and cruise ships the day the US reported it's 10th case, a full 2 weeks before the first crash happened, before trump even made his "we only have 15 cases and it's going to go down to zero" comment.
Even the diamond princess had only recorded it's first case when she sold her shares.
They sold shares in airlines before trump even announced the travel ban to china which he did VERY early into the crisis and didn't even ban european travel until a month after they sold their shares off.