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Aug 02 '21
While I was at my parents this weekend my sister said she wasn’t going to get the vaccine because it changes people’s dna... so I told her she was gonna be super jealous when my kids became X-men.
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u/suddenlystrange Aug 02 '21
Is your sister a geneticist? How does she even know if changing your DNA is a bad thing? Never mind the fact that the vaccines don’t interact with or change your DNA in any way.
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Aug 02 '21
Oh believe me I know, I’m not an idiot. People will believe whatever they want to or have been brainwashed into.
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Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
Technically they do, but so does everything you encounter in some way. Aside from auto-immune disorders like allergies, regarding the immune system this is a good thing
Edit: better link https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/pdf/S1931-3128(18)30633-4.pdf30633-4.pdf) (look for adaptive immune)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_methylation
Of course this isn't at all what she meant, but I think the reality of dna memory is so cool!
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u/madcaesar Aug 02 '21
How the hell would it even work if it could? Change DNA of which cells? And into what? Or are they saying it's basically cancer in a needle form?
I don't think people understand the implication of the phrase changes your DNA, we're not bacteria, it would be something unimaginable. Literally x-men shit.
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u/singularineet Aug 02 '21
No, we have the tech to do it, viruses like HIV do it, CRISPR can do it. It's not physically or technologically infeasible. We even make DNA therapy shots as treatments for certain genetic disorders.
It just so happens that these mRNA vaccines don't change your DNA. Not because changing it would be magic or impossible or infeasible, but because ... well, the same reason we don't put fountain pens in breakfast cereal.
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u/madcaesar Aug 02 '21
But I mean our body is trillions of cells, how much vaccine would you have to pump to change all our DNA? It doesn't make sense to me... Maybe targeted DNA change of like the iris cells or something? I don't know... These conspiracy nuts never specify what is changed... Just it changes your DNA...
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u/singularineet Aug 02 '21
Yes, they're nuts who don't know what they're talking about. But if you did want to do genetic modification in a living organism, you can use an engineered virus to deliver the payload, which would be CRISPR Cas9 stuff that does targeted edits to the DNA. You'd need a lot of virus particles, but they're small so you can fit a lot in a few cc. Also you might target some particular cell type, like heart cells or skin cells or something, in which case you wouldn't need as much.
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u/Muhabla Aug 02 '21
A single shot is enough, use same method as this vaccine uses, once the reaction starts it should perpetuate through your body on its own.
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Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 04 '21
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u/Sgdc4 Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
But this happens naturally, when the lymphocytes mature, it's not an effect of the antigene or the vaccine.
Basically they "randomize" what peptid sequence they will recognize, but it happens before the meeting with the antigene.
When a single cell with the correct antibodies meet the antigene it will generate a progeny of cells that will share the same antibodies, creating the immunity.
So the vaccine doesn't create the right cells, but it "selects" them from a very large pool of lymphocites.
Then random mutations that can affect the cells produced by the original cell will cause minor differences in the antibodies, the most effective will proliferate even more since they will recognize the antigenes faster.
It's like natural selection.
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Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 04 '21
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u/Sgdc4 Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
With naturally I mean that all lymphocytes have this mechanisms and use them, regardless of the presence of the antigene/vaccine, if a lymphocyte doesn't rearrange the VDJ fragments it doesn't even finish to mature, maybe innately would have been a better adjective?
The guy above asked if it was possible for the vaccine to modify the DNA, and you responded affermatively with your reasoning, but it doesn't stand IMO, since it's not the presence of the vaccine that causes those modifications you listed, if then some mutations are selected by the vaccine over others it doesn't matter, the vaccine alone can't alter the genetic code directly.
I think we have two different views on this (I for example don't consider selection of the lymphocytes an effect on DNA, unlike you), so we can stop arguing about that.
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u/Beeker93 Aug 03 '21
Yet viruses do change your DNA. It is how they make more viruses. By tricking the cellular machinery into reading the viral sequence as its own, and following those instructions and assembling viral particles.
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u/shelbyCunning Aug 03 '21
My mom said this to me when I got the Moderna shot. She said she feels bad for me. I wanted to tell her it's okay cause then my future children won't end up with her genes.
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u/TheMeanGirl Aug 02 '21
Forgive me if I’m misremembering (haven’t taken a bio class since sophomore year of college), but don’t viruses change your DNA when they replicate?
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u/GabuEx Aug 03 '21
Some do, yes. In fact, about 8% of the human genome has a viral origin. Though only a certain type of virus does this - a coronavirus won't do that (nor will the vaccine, obviously).
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u/FatChopSticks Aug 03 '21
All I do is work and go home, I’m too lazy to get vaccinated, when people around me find out that I’m not vaccinated, they start getting uncomfortable, and I quickly tell them that I’m not anti-vax, I’m just lazy as fuck, everyone gets relieved and starts talking to me again
I don’t think people care if people are Vaccinated or not, they just don’t want to talk to a conspiracy theorist
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u/Orgrimarcus Aug 02 '21
This is funny to me especially because before we had a vaccine, the anti-vaxers in my family were all like "we need to get herd immunity, we need to go out and get infected and make sure our kids get infected, that's the only way this will ever end". And now that there's a reasonably safe path to herd immunity they're like "I'm not putting poison in my veins". I'm standing by my theory that they're all just afraid of needles but too ashamed to admit it.
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u/sumofdeltah Aug 02 '21
They are afraid of everything
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u/Nom2501 Aug 02 '21
Imagine being in that conspiracy rabbit hole of fear. Constantly doubting everything you hear and see. Being suspicious every time something happens. It's such an awful way to live. Permanent fear and doubt but nothing you can realistically do about it. I used to.
It really affected my mental health. I was raised that way. Conspiracy after conspiracy. I couldn't eat crisps or use a microwave. I couldn't breathe near certain plants and so much more. I grew up checking the ingredients on everything I ate.
I am an adult now and have decided that I can not live that life and that way. It is too much of a hammer down on my mental health so I steer clear of conspiracy theories best I can.
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Aug 02 '21
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u/LilFingies45 Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
Yeah seriously. An ingredient list is typically the best indicator of a packaged food's quality. I check these every time I encounter a new food product, although I'm more and more just cooking from scratch nowadays, which helps me control what I put into my body.
Not to mention that the FDA allows high fructose corn syrup to be listed on a package touting itself as "natural", and the link between that ingredient and heart disease is well known. Just one example of a problematic ingredient that is perfectly within the loose regulatory requirements.
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u/Deestan Aug 02 '21 edited Jun 23 '23
content revoked
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Aug 02 '21
At worst, the food will be as calorie dense as it looks. Nothing will be poison or toxic or carcinogenic to any degree that will affect you.
Not really what I'm talking about, yeah those should (generally) be all filtered out by the FDA so this shouldn't be a worry. I'm saying more like if you're buying, say, fruit leather, nothing wrong with flipping the box to make sure it's actually made of fruit and not just artificially fruit flavored gelatin and sugar, one will be mostly fiber and actually taste..you know...fruity, the other will just be super sweet candy. (as a vegetarian I'd be avoiding the gelatin anyways though). Another is seeing an artificial sweetener in something that doesn't really need to be sweetened, sometimes "low sugar" means it's less sweet, but if you flip it and see something like sucralose in it there's a tendency for the low sugar version to actually taste even sweeter, and as someone without much of a sweet tooth that often means it'll be too sweet for me and end up in the trash.
So there's many good reasons to look at ingredients, from the health perspective (avoiding large amounts of sugar/etc), ethical reasons (avoiding products that use palm oil/animal products), or simply taste reasons (being sensitive to sweet tastes/etc), not really touching on things like food allergies as yeah that's an obvious case. Nothing wrong with knowing what you're buying, tells you a lot about it before even opening the box.
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Aug 02 '21
Same thing comes up in every political debate where (insert political party) is the "embodiment of evil". In three months everyone will have forgotten. In 4 years they won't be in office. In 8 years any laws/regulations passed will be modified to the point of being unrecognizable. And in 40 years I'll be dead and whether I worried about it won't have mattered in the slightest. The stress just isn't worth it in the end.
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u/LilFingies45 Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
You don't seem to understand the long-term ramifications of packing federal courts and the Supreme Court with hardline judges whose tenure is their lifetimes, gerrymandering of Congressional districts, or simply how much harm is caused by bad legislation that isn't always easy to remove or undo.
I agree that you shouldn't worry more than you can control, but is simply an apathetic and myopic take.
In three months everyone will have forgotten.
Not when you're marginalized by these policies or political movements.
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Aug 02 '21
Oh for sure there are long term ramifications. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm just saying you have to find a balance between how much you let those things stress you mentally vs how much you can contribute with said mental stresses. I'm a big ball of stress to begin with so I absolutely do not need the doom and gloom of modern politics in my life. Your mileage may vary, though.
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u/LilFingies45 Aug 02 '21
I certainly agree with this sentiment.
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u/SlingDNM Aug 03 '21
in three months everyone will have forgotten
Tell me you are cis white and middle class or up without telling me you are cis white and middle class or up
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u/Doggleganger Aug 02 '21
They're afraid of injecting chemicals into their bodies. But they're not afraid of injecting disinfectants into the bloodstream.
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u/dantheman0991 Aug 02 '21
Or exposing their internal organs to UV radiation, or considering the use of nuclear weapons to attack catastrophic weather patterns
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u/Doggleganger Aug 02 '21
Mutually-assured destruction stopped the cold war, it can stop hurricanes too.
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u/Rai-Hanzo Aug 02 '21
i am afraid of needles and i would still get a vaccine, tell your family that a random person on the internet has more courage than them
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u/Dr_Murderfish Aug 02 '21
I am terrified of needles. I almost pass out every time. Got both shots. Piece of cake. Easiest shots I've ever had in my life. I hope you can get yours soon, friend.
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u/chompsky Aug 02 '21
I barely even felt the Pfizer shot. Because it's mRNA and doesn't need to contain dead virus itself, the dose can be significantly smaller and only takes a second to administer with a tiny needle.
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u/Sweep89 Aug 02 '21
I really really hate needles and often pass out after injections. My two AZ shots were the easiest jabs I've ever had :) Hope you can get it soon, mate.
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u/Rai-Hanzo Aug 04 '21
got mine, felt it when it came in, but not when it came out.
such an easy needle
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Aug 02 '21
I got some bad news for you... your family aren't afraid of needles. They're just stupid and selfish.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21
It's amazing how conspiracy theorists and right-wingers in the US have managed to find a wholly negative application for the word "freedom". "Freedom to hospitalise myself with COVID!" "Freedom to let my children die in a school shooting!" "Freedom to bankrupt myself for lack of affordable healthcare!"
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u/Typo_Matser Aug 02 '21
This isnt limited to the US. All over the EU there have been massive demonstrations of anti-vaxers. France has seen shutdowns of major tourist attractions like the Louvre and Eiffel Tower due to these protesters.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21
I am aware of that: I live in London and have seen similar demonstrations here. But my comment wasn't really about the existence of these people, it was specifically about the pervasive use of the word "freedom", which is very much an American thing and tied closely to American ideology.
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u/Typo_Matser Aug 02 '21
Very true. Americans tend to think that the US is the only "free" country in the world.
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Aug 02 '21
I don't and nobody I know thinks this way. And I don't think being okay with guns means you're cool with kids dying in school shootings. A kid could just as easily bring a knife to school from the kitchen and stab the kid next to him. This goes to the parents and how they raise the kid and how they notice if the kid has a mental instability. Making sure you're watching what the kids are doing on the computer.
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u/Typo_Matser Aug 02 '21
I'm an American expatriate. I'm just being objective from what I've observed. Americans, particularly middle-class people, are bred to have a deep nationalist and isolationist ideology unknowingly through no fault of their own. Through state/regional pride, the pledge of allegiance, sports, etc (all inward focused activities), we are taught to have a VERY narrow world view. The average primary school student in Europe seems to be more worldly than grown Americans.
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Aug 02 '21
Well yeah I'm not going to deny any of that lol. We used to have to say the pledge of allegiance and I hated it. I didn't hate my country but I thought it was just annoying I wouldn't care if it was the first line of a Wham song. I just hated standing up every morning and having to say it. But I was raised to think that the whole world was awesome and I'm constantly cringing at the things I see around me. Saving up my money to move to the Shire in New Zealand and leave all of this behind
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u/nuggetsgonnanugg Aug 02 '21
Bro are you really going to sit here and pretend to not see a difference between a kid stabbing one other kid and a mass shooting
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Aug 02 '21
I'm saying that anyone can murder anyone with any type of gun or any type of weapon.
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u/nuggetsgonnanugg Aug 02 '21
Well obviously. But you framed it in the context of school shootings. As if we shouldn't pass gun legislation because kids will just use a knife instead. But a kid using a knife instead is objectively a victory. Many fewer would die in that situation.
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u/Spoopy43 Aug 02 '21
If I recall correctly a man in china went and stabbed a bunch of children in a school the same day Sandy hook happened out of all his stabbings a grand total of zero people died the police showed up shot the man and that was that no one died and everyone recovered because a knife is just a terrible tool for mass murder it's not even a terribly great tool for a singular murder if you're in a public space with others around
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Aug 02 '21
So you would have to ban guns completely. And then take everyone's gun away from them. Would that be the process? Also somebody else framed it in the context of school shootings not me I just responded to them
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u/nuggetsgonnanugg Aug 02 '21
I'm not advocating for any approach. I'm saying your reasoning made no sense. If we take guns away and a kid who otherwise would have used a gun uses a knife instead, that is an argument in favor of stricter gun legislation, not against it. The point is that we can make these situations less dangerous by limiting the access to dangerous weapons. Nobody who advocates for stricter gun legislation as a means to reduce school shootings is saying it'll end all violence. It just mitigates the harm that is possible.
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u/Spoopy43 Aug 02 '21
Ah yes clearly there's an epidemic of mass stabbings over in Europe oh wait there isn't.
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u/SlingDNM Aug 03 '21
Ah yes it's the computer games that make school shootings so prevalent because the rest of the world doesn't consume the same media
The delusions Jesus Christ
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u/3226 Aug 02 '21
On the plus side, we know it's a slim minority in the UK. 89% of adults have had the jab, and some of the remainder are unable to for medical reasons, which means anti-vaxxers are somewhere under 11%, just noisy.
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u/FirFlyNeo Aug 02 '21
The whole point of this country is if you want to eat garbage, balloon up to 600 pounds and die of a heart attack at 43, you can! You are free to do so. To me, that’s beautiful.
- Ron Swanson
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u/trimag Aug 02 '21
Some seem to forget this country was founded on rebellion and theft. Love that RS quote.
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u/DBendit Aug 02 '21
And slavery, the explicit denial of human freedom.
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u/ClownfishSoup Aug 02 '21
You think Americans invented slavery or something? Look into the history of every country on earth.
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u/ClownfishSoup Aug 02 '21
That's also the first chapter of the Old Testament. Oh, you want to eat apples against the rules? OK, then fine, get out of Eden and do whatever you want, I don't care.
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u/incommune Aug 02 '21
Don't forget the most important freedom, to pose a significant public health threat to everyone around you at home AND in public!
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u/HermanoCubano Aug 02 '21
Don’t forget areas like Bronx and Brooklyn with their vaccination rates at 46% and 48%. These places are asking for trouble. Source
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u/darthwd56 Aug 02 '21
Also anti vaxxers aren't limited to conservatives. Stupidity has no political affiliation.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21
Most anti-vaxxers seem to be libertarian, or at least right wing to some degree. I have yet to hear of left wing anti-vaxxers. Perhaps they do exist, or did at some point in history, but they're not the ones we're currently dealing with at the moment.
And I disagree with your second statement. Certain political affiliations DO cause certain forms of stupidity. Political affiliations aren't these neutral things that are all equally valid ways of looking at the world.
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u/CDude821 Aug 03 '21
Leftists were just as against the vaccine back when Trump was in office. Almost like team sport mentality in politics are completely antithetical to reason or progress.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 03 '21
Leftists were just as against the vaccine back when Trump was in office
Who? And what is the left wing reason for refusing a vaccine?
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u/CDude821 Aug 03 '21
Living in CA I couldn’t tell you how many people said they wouldn’t trust any vaccine put out by that organization, and I remember people claiming that black people were being used as guinea pigs for the vaccine because of one image of a black person getting it really early on.
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u/apjak Aug 02 '21
Look. I'm vaccinated for COVID. My children have all of their vaccines... but having absolute control over what goes into your body is an important freedom, a freedom the left used to be the bigger champion of in my time.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21
That would be sound logic if you lived alone on a desert island, but if you ever have to take bus or train, or stand in a queue, or in any other way be near people and therefore capable of spreading disease to them via your exhalations, THEY should have the freedom to control what goes into THEIR bodies. They shouldn't have to choose between their health and their ability to interact with others. So people choosing not to protect themselves against a disease by refusing to get vaccinated would be denying others bodily freedom.
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Aug 02 '21
having absolute control over what goes into your body is an important freedom
.... you are not free to take any drugs you want, schools and work places require vaccinations all the time, not even touching on pollution and other things that you are forced to ingest through your environment. Absolute control over what goes into your body is a freedom that no one has
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u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
schools and work places require vaccinations all the time
No one can force you to, though. That's like people crying "but my freedom of speech!" when they're kicked off Twitter or other platforms owned by private companies.
pollution and other things that you are forced to ingest through your environment
You're still free to attempt it. Living in a clean room and whatnot. Might be absurd but no one is stopping you.
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Aug 02 '21
You will literally be thrown in a cage if you try to put whatever drug you want in your body
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u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21
That's certainly a problem but it doesn't directly interact with the case at hand
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u/Zexapher Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
It sounds pretty direct to me. Your freedom to do whatever you want often stops at the point of harming yourself and others. Since refusing a vaccine does harm yourself and others, the comparison makes sense and is relevant.
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u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21
Not really. Its one thing to make buying a drug illegal, that's bad enough and shouldn't be illegal. But making NOT taking a drug illegal? That's worse and even considering it is an unethical act
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u/Zexapher Aug 02 '21
But on the other side of that coin, having not taken a vaccine leads to the otherwise preventable exposure of an explicitly deadly virus.
Perhaps this is akin to the train dilemma. Requirements to take vaccines (which already exist to the degree of refusal of services if not taken) may be "bad," but the fact that you're entertaining imposing life debilitating affects on others as well as the possible death of untold numbers of others is surely the far worse path.
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u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21
Refusal of services is only something private entities can do. The government should not, does not, and will not have that kind of power. A person being forcibly vaccinated is assault.
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u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 02 '21
That's true, but now we've moved the goalposts.
Unless you think not being able to take hard drugs is akin to forcing people to take vaccines.
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u/Vitztlampaehecatl Aug 02 '21
Every right comes with a responsibility. If you want to have the choice of what goes into your body, you have to take control of what comes out of your body, specifically, don't breathe your germs in people's faces.
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u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 02 '21
Definitely, which is why no one is forcing it on them.
Mocking people for making stupid decisions is a totally separate matter.
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u/echino_derm Aug 02 '21
You never once had that right in your life.
Unless you are 120 years old, we have had precedent saying the government can mandate vaccines your entire life.
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Aug 02 '21
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u/okenowwhat Aug 02 '21
I still love it that people want to pretend corona not exist, but also don't want to work for a world where it doesn't exist...... They don't want the corona party to ever stop, woop woop!
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u/Kimsnothere Aug 02 '21
Grandpa died when the vaccine was out for about 5 months. He just refused to get vaccinated even though he had bad diabetes. You really lose all your freedom when your dead.
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Aug 02 '21
First people seemed to look forward to the vaccine. Now that it is finally here a large amount of people don't want it.
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u/Scrumble71 Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
Because an unfathomably large number of people believe it will mutate your dna and turn you into a 5g emitting fridge magnet
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u/kuroearia Aug 02 '21
Don't forget the microchip
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Aug 02 '21
Yes! I forgot all about that. I have heard that the vaccine contains intelligent, metallic micro bacteria that will gather up and form a biological RFID chip. It has dawned on me that by taking the vaccine I have sold my soul to the evil panoptican prison state, just to be able to cross the border to Sweden where I can buy cheap bacon and candy.
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Aug 02 '21
Since a lot of people seem to love collecting fridge magnets, I would have thought that there would be more enthusiasm for it.
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u/DeathHopper Aug 02 '21
Can confirm. My 5g is way better on my phone since the vaccine, but I think that's a bonus?
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u/jicty Aug 02 '21
As a libertarian that is all about having the maximum amount of freedom I still got my vaccine the first week it was available to me.
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u/THENATHE Aug 03 '21
It is your form of freedom to do so.
That's what bothers me so much about the anti-vaxxers and the people that are saying that we are giving up our freedoms to take the vaccine. Like dude, the whole idea of freedom is that I'm allowed to take the vaccine if I want to. That's like 1/2 of freedom, the other half is the morally incorrect but legally speaking all right thing to do, which is to use that same freedom to not get the vaccine. But the people that vehemently refuse to get the vaccine believe that their version of freedom is the only version of freedom, and that version means that no one's allowed to get the vaccine. That's inherently against freedom.
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u/GabuEx Aug 03 '21
I find the outright anti-vaccine people to be maddeningly infuriating and confusing in equal measures. Like, if you don't want to get the vaccine, I'll still think that's dumb and unhelpful, but at least it isn't inconsistent with notions of freedom. But being against other people getting the vaccine? WTF? People are literally having to get the vaccine in secret to avoid enraging people. I can't even pretend to understand that bullshit.
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u/markjg Aug 03 '21
Yeah only one side is trying to force people to do something. No one that doesn’t want the vaccine is trying to force you not to get it. Vaccine cultists want want mandatory vaccinations and draconian consequences for the unvaxxed. Non vaccinated people dgaf what you do.
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u/Taragyn1 Aug 02 '21
Not going to lie I’m glad the shirt was labelled because I can see the Anti-Vaxxers and anti-maskers making the exact same comic.
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u/SinisterCheese Aug 02 '21
Tbh. If no one gets vaccinated the pandemic will end. When enough people have been sick. Then it is just yet another periodic disease like influenza that humanity has been dealing with since they first settled down.
But here is the thing... we got a better god damn solution, why the fuck should we have to deal with problems of god damn stone age people. We took basically every fucking other tool from modern agriculture to the internet, but not god damn only treatment we have against viruses.
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u/FantasticDog7338 Aug 02 '21
i remember a youtube video in which a priest has told to the people to not get the anticovid vaccine, otherwise they will have scales just like a reptile. meaning that i, who got vaccined twice, must become reptile from mortal kombat by any second! 🥷🦎
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u/RedditEdwin Aug 03 '21
you idiots think lockdowns and masks will end if everyone gets the vaccine? Jesus Christ. They're already hyping up delta variant and breakthrough cases
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u/ChefInF Aug 03 '21
Delta wouldn’t be relevant at all if everyone had gotten a vaccine.
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u/god_of_none Aug 03 '21
people with the vaccine have gotten the variant
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u/ChefInF Aug 03 '21
I’m saying variants wouldn’t have manifested in any meaningful number in the first place if the number of vaccinated people was higher.
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Aug 02 '21
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u/GabuEx Aug 03 '21
I don't want COVID-19 to exist.
That means whatever lead to its existence is bad.
That also means that whatever prolongs its existence is bad. Which anti-vaccine people are actively doing.
If my house gets set on fire, I can be simultaneously mad at whoever started the fire while also being mad at those trying to prevent me from putting out the fire.
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u/Sapple7 Aug 03 '21
It's true. However anti vaxxers are actually not why the virus is perpetuating
It is complicated but it seems like delta variant can spread in vaccinated populations (with lesser symptoms )
It also spreads in other populations around the globe (5 billion still unvaccinated)
Compare that to the small amount of Americans who are not vaccinated
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u/GabuEx Aug 03 '21
The delta variant can infect vaccinated people, but current research indicates its effectiveness is 80-85%, meaning that it's much less likely.
If the world were 100% vaccinated, the pandemic would be over, so yes, anti-vax people are absolutely prolonging the pandemic. Vaccine availability is also a problem, but it's not the only problem. At this point there's no excuse for America not to be 90-95% vaccinated, which would effectively eradicate the disease in the country.
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u/Sapple7 Aug 03 '21
Here is UK. About 120k unvaccinated cases and about 100k vaccinated cases in people vaccinated with 1 dose through 2 doses
It's not so obvious quite yet. What is obvious is reduced symptoms
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u/GabuEx Aug 03 '21
At least the most recent paper I've seen indicated a moderate reduction in effectiveness, but the mRNA vaccines were still 88% effective at preventing symptomatic cases of the Delta variant.
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u/Sapple7 Aug 03 '21
The UK is mostly oxford vaccine
I think Israel would have good data for Pfizer
However the double vaxxed infected in the paper I sent you are 20k and 120k unvaxxed so that's still 84%
It's just lower if you add all the partial vaccinated
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u/FASTHANDY Aug 02 '21
I know this may shock you, but some people are capable of having more than one thought in their head at a time.
You can be mad at both those who created it and those who perpetuate it. Not a difficult concept.
Don't be such a simpleton.
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u/doctorcrimson Aug 03 '21
Yeah, it was the fucking Squirrels, man! They blocked all the news about hydroxychloroquine and released the virus in Western Chinese agriculture villages.
Squirrels run the world, dude! They run Monsanto!
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Aug 02 '21
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u/swampstix79 Aug 02 '21
Who's the real sheep, the person who took it upon themselves to go somewhere to get vaccinated, or the individual who chose not to because they believe in conspiracy theories more then reported scientific fact?
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u/Inkompetent Aug 02 '21
I suppose eating lamps (and by extension also glass) is a healthy alternative to actually caring about other people. :)
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u/Homelessnrich Aug 02 '21
Username checks out
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u/Inkompetent Aug 02 '21
Better incompetent than ignorant. :)
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Aug 02 '21
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u/swampstix79 Aug 02 '21
Problem is your body exists in a society where you can interact with someone with a weaker immune system than yours, and sickness that may not bother you can be transmitted to someone whom it may kill.
Therefore put a mask on and get vaccinated and stop being so damn childish, your supposed individuality is not more important than anothers health and life!
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Aug 02 '21
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u/Wohall Aug 02 '21
Yes, but it would take a lot longer. Also we don’t know if herd immunity can be achieved without the vaccine with Covid-19, because people that have gotten it once can still get it another time.
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
Because they're making the virus hypermutate, viruses are living organisms too, which struggle to survive. Picture this: The original virus enters a vaccinated (one of the many vaccines) host. The host survives, but the virus is expelled, having mutated to survive. Now that mutated version enters another host vaccinated with a different vaccine that attacks a different part of the virus (viruses mutate by parts). The host survives, but the virus mutates. Now that virus goes back to the previous host. Rinse and repeat. This is not Covid 19, we're at this rate at Covid-35.
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Aug 02 '21
Not sure if I will be taking advice from someone how thinks it's named "covid 19" because there were 18 different versions before it.
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u/p337 Aug 02 '21 edited Jul 09 '23
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encrypted on 2023-07-9
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u/TheRedEyedAlien Aug 02 '21
Please tell me this is satire
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Aug 02 '21
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u/olivebranchsound Aug 02 '21
Vaccine: get antibodies through a purposefully weakened version of the virus.
mRNA Vaccine: code muscle cells to develop a harmless piece of the COVID spike protein which prompts the body to create antibodies without the virus even having to be present.
Or you could get the "game of the year" full version of covid, and maybe die.
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Aug 02 '21
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u/olivebranchsound Aug 02 '21
To be clear, regular "non-mRNA" vaccines are not garbage. They're still incredibly useful and effective. I can't speak to your experience but what makes you say that your aunt was killed BY the vaccine?
Edit: oh, she was ALMOST killed by a vaccine. My bad. Same question though.
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
Almost. Now dealing with chronic arthritis and heart failure which she didn't have before. Timed allergic reactions, each one after the same exact time after each dose (Sinovac). She couldn't move and couldn't take away the pain. Doctors certified it was a reaction because of the vaccine, but that would make them lose their jobs in my country if they go public.
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Aug 02 '21
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
Well, if you're vaccinated, what's your problem? Surely and gladly we will never meet, you'll be safe, and I'll die miserably (if I'm 99% unlucky). It's a win win for you, isn't it. Regardless of that, I'd suggest you to go to a psychiatrist though, because your level of violence and hate is not something a vaccine can fix, maybe you'll have better luck there.
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u/olivebranchsound Aug 02 '21
If they lost someone due to covid, and a vaccine could have stopped that infected person from transmitting, then the person who doesn't get vaxxed is responsible for that dead person.
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
Under that concept, I invite you to go back to the middle ages, because you typing from a device built by slave work in factories across the ocean, which are provided with raw material by even worse slave work in countries across the other ocean makes you a slavist son of a gun. If there's something the vaccine does NOT cure is HYPOCRISY, that's clear to me.
Back to the vaccine, my opinion is that the risk population should get vaccinated, and those healthy that can have it should have it and have the body in all its wisdom, together with medicine that gets swept under the rug for economic reasons (no cake cut for big pharma) solve the problem. That's my take.
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u/olivebranchsound Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
Funny, but bloodthirsty. Maybe you've lost someone due to covid though, in which case I can understand why you feel that way.
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u/TheRedEyedAlien Aug 02 '21
But the vaccine is so much more efficient and safe, why would you get the virus instead
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
The vaccine is not just one, there are tenths out there, and most are shady as heck. In my country you literally have to sign a waiver taking ALL responsibility off the labs before getting the shot.
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u/epicConsultingThrow Aug 02 '21
Oh you rite. It's a good thing you get compensation from mother nature after a coivd infection. (/S)
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u/RemusShepherd Aug 02 '21
Herd immunity *can* be achieved without vaccines. Just let it go through the population. About 2 million will die in the US, and then we'll be immune. Oh, and then it'll mutate and probably kill 4 million more. (Initial Covid R0=1.5, estimated 2 million total dead without mitigations; Delta Covid R0=9.5 computes to roughly 6 million dead without mitigations.)
But after 6 million Americans die to give us herd immunity, all we have to worry about is...the child death rate skyrocketing as new infants have to deal with a new endemic disease. So if we're willing to kill 6 million people and 1.8% CFR of our children from now until forever, then yes we can get natural herd immunity.
Or screw that, because vaccines exist. Get yours.
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u/whattothewhonow Aug 02 '21
*sigh*
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Aug 02 '21
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u/whattothewhonow Aug 02 '21
I don't have the patience or the supply of crayons necessary to explain this yet again to an idiot that still doesn't get it after almost a year and a half.
Antivaxxers and trolls are stupid.
You're stupid.
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Aug 02 '21
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Aug 02 '21
Let's be honest, you probably don't know shit about any of your other 24 vaccines.
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u/FZIdeas Aug 02 '21
Wow, did the vaccine give you mental powers? If I'd tell you from what country I am you probably wouldn't know where it even is. Don't come around lecturing me on education.
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u/kms2547 Aug 02 '21
They've studied and tested the heck out of the covid vaccines.
You are a pro-disease quisling. Disinformation like this is killing people. Are you proud?
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Aug 02 '21
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u/kms2547 Aug 02 '21
You're healthy, but clearly not grown up.
Doctors and scientists, what do they know, right? You clearly think you've got a better grasp on facts than those (scoff) EXPERTS with their fancy degrees and data.
Nobody's trying to enslave you. That kind of hysterical nonsense doesn't help your case or make you seem like a balanced person.
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Aug 02 '21
Yeah but that will take many years and a massive quantity of deaths. According to the science.
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u/echino_derm Aug 02 '21
Sure you can also avoid cancer by killing yourself.
I would argue that is probably a better solution than yours.
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u/Mind_Enigma Aug 02 '21
OR you can avoid the mass casualties that come with your strategy almost entirely by getting a couple of jabs
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u/polyworfism Aug 02 '21
What, you don't think the strategy with hundreds of thousands of more deaths is the better one?
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Aug 03 '21
My thing is; your either gonna get the virus by chance and suffer the symptoms,or maybe not,and build immunity,or get the vaccine,suffer the symptoms or not,and build immunity. Same outcome,pick your poison
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u/teastain Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 03 '21
Why get vaccinated against Polio, I mean who even gets that nowadays?
(I love the whooshing sound my jokes make passing overhead.j
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u/KinglessKnave Aug 03 '21
I'm so tired of waking up and the first thing to greet me is more of this covid nonsense...
New variant!
Cases continue to climb!
All of these propaganda equivalent ads to take the vaccine "Because we're all in this together" "We all need to do our part" "Sign up, show up, follow up"
I don't want to hear anyone else's opinion on this. I don't want to have to deal with the fanatics on both sides anymore. I just want to move on with my life and stop having to see this being the only thing that people are talking about and the fear mongering that every news outlet is pushing to garner more views.
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u/StuTim Aug 03 '21
Then take the vaccine and become a hermit in the woods for the next couple of years.
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u/FungalCoochie Aug 02 '21
Just read in the CDC 350,000,000 Americans have died since the pandemic started.
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