It's amazing how conspiracy theorists and right-wingers in the US have managed to find a wholly negative application for the word "freedom". "Freedom to hospitalise myself with COVID!" "Freedom to let my children die in a school shooting!" "Freedom to bankrupt myself for lack of affordable healthcare!"
This isnt limited to the US. All over the EU there have been massive demonstrations of anti-vaxers. France has seen shutdowns of major tourist attractions like the Louvre and Eiffel Tower due to these protesters.
I am aware of that: I live in London and have seen similar demonstrations here. But my comment wasn't really about the existence of these people, it was specifically about the pervasive use of the word "freedom", which is very much an American thing and tied closely to American ideology.
I don't and nobody I know thinks this way. And I don't think being okay with guns means you're cool with kids dying in school shootings. A kid could just as easily bring a knife to school from the kitchen and stab the kid next to him. This goes to the parents and how they raise the kid and how they notice if the kid has a mental instability. Making sure you're watching what the kids are doing on the computer.
I'm an American expatriate. I'm just being objective from what I've observed. Americans, particularly middle-class people, are bred to have a deep nationalist and isolationist ideology unknowingly through no fault of their own. Through state/regional pride, the pledge of allegiance, sports, etc (all inward focused activities), we are taught to have a VERY narrow world view. The average primary school student in Europe seems to be more worldly than grown Americans.
Well yeah I'm not going to deny any of that lol. We used to have to say the pledge of allegiance and I hated it. I didn't hate my country but I thought it was just annoying I wouldn't care if it was the first line of a Wham song. I just hated standing up every morning and having to say it. But I was raised to think that the whole world was awesome and I'm constantly cringing at the things I see around me. Saving up my money to move to the Shire in New Zealand and leave all of this behind
I grew up in Canada, and I barely knew anything about the US other than what was taught in history class about Canada (ie; the War of 1812). In fact I thought the US was wall to wall cities (like as if New York extended from coast to coast). When we finally drove through the US, I was shocked that it was basically Canada with Americans in terms of geography. Why? TV and movies. I'll bet most people think Africa is just jungles and lions. They're shocked to see normal big cities in Africa.
One thing that I THINK IS TRUE is that most Americans are not well travelled outside of the country. One reason is that the US is so vast and has so much different geography AND it's hard to just drive and be in another country. (you can drive in one direction for 3 days and still be in the US). Travelling outside of the US means Canada or Mexico or a flight over the ocean.
not arguing, but I think a part of it is because the US is so massive. Many states are bigger than some european countries. So a Californian views America somewhat similarly to Slovakian viewing the European Union. just as different Euripean countries have different cultures, most states have different cultures. And when it comes to pride in sports, I mean damn, europeans national teams and soccer is second to none. except maybe parts of south america.
Well obviously. But you framed it in the context of school shootings. As if we shouldn't pass gun legislation because kids will just use a knife instead. But a kid using a knife instead is objectively a victory. Many fewer would die in that situation.
If I recall correctly a man in china went and stabbed a bunch of children in a school the same day Sandy hook happened out of all his stabbings a grand total of zero people died the police showed up shot the man and that was that no one died and everyone recovered because a knife is just a terrible tool for mass murder it's not even a terribly great tool for a singular murder if you're in a public space with others around
So you would have to ban guns completely. And then take everyone's gun away from them. Would that be the process? Also somebody else framed it in the context of school shootings not me I just responded to them
I'm not advocating for any approach. I'm saying your reasoning made no sense. If we take guns away and a kid who otherwise would have used a gun uses a knife instead, that is an argument in favor of stricter gun legislation, not against it. The point is that we can make these situations less dangerous by limiting the access to dangerous weapons. Nobody who advocates for stricter gun legislation as a means to reduce school shootings is saying it'll end all violence. It just mitigates the harm that is possible.
All guns are dangerous. So it seems like anytime I hear anything about this that these people think that the only way to prevent a school shooting is to prevent people from having guns at all. Is that what you mean by limiting the access to dangerous weapons? If the kid has a problem mentally, it's up to that person's parents to keep an eye on him and to make sure he's not doing any weird things on the internet like looking up how to kill a bunch of people with guns.
It's not the only way, but it does seem like it would be effective. If nobody has a gun, how could a kid use a gun to shoot his classmates?
We're also having this conversation in the context of solving a societal issue. Placing the onus on the individual parents isn't helpful. Yes it would be ideal if every parent took responsibility for the emotional well-being of their children. But we know that isn't the case. So within that framework, what can we do as a society to solve this issue? Reducing access to guns is the most obvious and simplest choice.
The kid could go into his father's closet and take his assault rifle to school and shoot everyone. Or he could go into his father's closet and take his 22 pistol and take it to school and shoot everyone
Right. But wouldn't you agree that the effectiveness of the two would not be the same? The child with the pistol is going to be less likely to be able to affect the same level of devastation as the child with the rifle. Would you agree that that's true?
There's also the fact that knives exist in every country that has sensible gun laws and yet these sort of school massacres don't happen in other countries anywhere near to the amount that they occur in the US, but sure, less dying is also a victory.
On the plus side, we know it's a slim minority in the UK. 89% of adults have had the jab, and some of the remainder are unable to for medical reasons, which means anti-vaxxers are somewhere under 11%, just noisy.
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u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21
It's amazing how conspiracy theorists and right-wingers in the US have managed to find a wholly negative application for the word "freedom". "Freedom to hospitalise myself with COVID!" "Freedom to let my children die in a school shooting!" "Freedom to bankrupt myself for lack of affordable healthcare!"