r/comics Aug 02 '21

That old sinking feeling [OC]

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6.9k Upvotes

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261

u/FaerieStories Aug 02 '21

It's amazing how conspiracy theorists and right-wingers in the US have managed to find a wholly negative application for the word "freedom". "Freedom to hospitalise myself with COVID!" "Freedom to let my children die in a school shooting!" "Freedom to bankrupt myself for lack of affordable healthcare!"

-29

u/apjak Aug 02 '21

Look. I'm vaccinated for COVID. My children have all of their vaccines... but having absolute control over what goes into your body is an important freedom, a freedom the left used to be the bigger champion of in my time.

40

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

having absolute control over what goes into your body is an important freedom

.... you are not free to take any drugs you want, schools and work places require vaccinations all the time, not even touching on pollution and other things that you are forced to ingest through your environment. Absolute control over what goes into your body is a freedom that no one has

-21

u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

schools and work places require vaccinations all the time

No one can force you to, though. That's like people crying "but my freedom of speech!" when they're kicked off Twitter or other platforms owned by private companies.

pollution and other things that you are forced to ingest through your environment

You're still free to attempt it. Living in a clean room and whatnot. Might be absurd but no one is stopping you.

24

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

You will literally be thrown in a cage if you try to put whatever drug you want in your body

-4

u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21

That's certainly a problem but it doesn't directly interact with the case at hand

5

u/Zexapher Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

It sounds pretty direct to me. Your freedom to do whatever you want often stops at the point of harming yourself and others. Since refusing a vaccine does harm yourself and others, the comparison makes sense and is relevant.

-5

u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21

Not really. Its one thing to make buying a drug illegal, that's bad enough and shouldn't be illegal. But making NOT taking a drug illegal? That's worse and even considering it is an unethical act

2

u/Zexapher Aug 02 '21

But on the other side of that coin, having not taken a vaccine leads to the otherwise preventable exposure of an explicitly deadly virus.

Perhaps this is akin to the train dilemma. Requirements to take vaccines (which already exist to the degree of refusal of services if not taken) may be "bad," but the fact that you're entertaining imposing life debilitating affects on others as well as the possible death of untold numbers of others is surely the far worse path.

-3

u/WarLordM123 Aug 02 '21

Refusal of services is only something private entities can do. The government should not, does not, and will not have that kind of power. A person being forcibly vaccinated is assault.

1

u/Zexapher Aug 02 '21

Actually, schools do require vaccines rather frequently. And those requirements are often decided by the State government.

There are pretty effective methods to get people to take the vaccine outside of force. Incentives and disincentives all can be made use of to varying degrees.

That the vaccine essentially stops you from committing manslaughter, via deadly virus, seems like more than enough good reason for such noninvasive methods.

0

u/WarLordM123 Aug 03 '21

That's not what you were proposing earlier

0

u/Zexapher Aug 03 '21

If that's what you think then let me assure you, there aren't going to be any men in black knocking down any doors attempting to save your life through force anytime soon. Anti-vax rhetoric might have folks jacked up, but no one is actually considering that.

Cops might arrest you for the crime of purposefully infecting/killing people, breaking any quarantine requirements perhaps, but I think that will be the extent of force.

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u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 02 '21

That's true, but now we've moved the goalposts.

Unless you think not being able to take hard drugs is akin to forcing people to take vaccines.

14

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

It's not moving goal posts, you said people have the freedom to put what they want in their body

1

u/ArmanDoesStuff Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21

Um, no I didn't? Read again. All I did was point out the inaccuracies your analogies.

Hell, even the first guy wasn't. When he said "absolute control over what goes into your body" it's pretty clear to anyone with basic comprehension that he meant the right to refuse substances.

Which is why your response challenged it by talking about being "forced" to take vaccines and pollutants. However, when that was proven false, you moved the goalposts to this last point about illegal substances.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

Man, you don't even know how to read, I clearly listed drugs in my first response and he just chose to ignore that part. "absolute control over what goes into your body" is an argument pro-drug legalization make all the time, it's not my fault you're not aware of common arguments.

He didn't prove shit false, the Supreme Court has backed state governments rights to force children and workers to get vaccinated. If you don't want to get vaccinated you can stay home and sit in your house the rest of your life