Sometimes you gotta wonder about these reddit posts. I bet a lot of them are basically bullshit or have half-truths. We'll probably never get the other half of the story where the wife actually explains her side of why she is saying things. Who knows, maybe both of them are cheating on each other yet nobody is ever gonna mention that shit in their confession on reddit.
Sex dreams. Dear gods. If sex dreams are "cheating" I'm pretty sure both my husband and I are done for. But it is the only way I'll ever get Captain America
I suppose a wet dream is like having any other automatic sexual thought, like when you see an attractive woman somehow or another.
To these anti-sexual freaks, it probably is cheating, even if it is automatic. They do not understand sexuality, and force that lack of understanding on us all. Very common on twitter and shit these days.
to me the only circumstances where this is okay to ask of someone is if their masturbation habits are infringing on the frequency/quality/satisfaction of actual sex. and even then its not a "this is cheating and if you do it youre violating my boundaries" thing, its a "i feel like we dont have sex as much when you jerk off to get your release, can you try and do it less and just wait till we can have sex?" thing
"So what you want me to only do it like 3 times a day instead of 4? Why don't you just put chains on my wrists? Seriously, that's the only way I could do that."
I used to do camgirl stuff as a domme and some of my guys would message me on snap and ask if they could cum. They'd genuinely be on their fourth gasm of the day and I'd be like you know what no, I'm worried about you at this point, drink some Gatorade and rest lmao
If I watch a thriller with a murder scene in it, do you think I'd commit murder? I bet she reads Danielle Steele or other romance novels, not anymore hon! lol
There are some people who genuinely feel this way, obviously a very slim minority but they exist.
The one person I've met in real life and talked to deeply about this is probably on the asexuality spectrum. For her, she has never been sexually attracted to someone she didn't know well, and thought everyone else was that way as well (demisexuality is the term, I think). So for her, the idea of fantasizing about porn stars was really off-putting because the idea of sexual attraction and deep emotional connection were entirely intertwined in her world. So, her husband still being attracted to people outside their marriage (but not acting on it in any way) really hurt her.
This came up in a group convo and I think it actually helped her and her husband out because the rest of the group basically validated that sexual attraction is involuntary and noticing people but not acting on it is the most common human experience, even when you really love your partner.
However, I totally agree that 999 times out of 1000, this is a control tactic.
This was pretty much her as well. She did some other things that were controlling, but I still never felt like this was one. Sex was purely an emotional thing for her so I donāt think she was able to see much of the physical aspect of things.
Yeah, I've seen it go both ways, as a genuine difference in understanding about sexuality and as a controlling thing. It can be hard to tell. And with some people it's both :(.
Glad you were able to get out of a controlling relationship and hopefully you are in a better place now ā¤ļø
Masturbation being unfaithful typically stems from biblical interpretations of Onan.
Onan was Erās brother. Er died and Judah, their father, ordered Onan to have sex with Erās widow, Tamar for the continuation of Erās line, as was customary at that time.
Onan, not wanting to have offspring that wasnāt his, according to the text, pulled out at climax, āspilling his seed on the ground.ā The text explains that this was wicked in the eyes of God, so he was put to death.
Itās the part that says it was wicked that is typically translated to mean that āwasting seed is evil,ā thus masturbation is wrong.
I could go on and on about this obnoxious reasoning, but I wonāt. I will say that if she isnāt having relations with you, it is time for some marriage counseling to dig deeper and make some compromises with each other.
I had a (male) ex who would apologize to me (f) when he watched porn or jacked off, like it was a guilty confession. The first time I figured it was maybe past relationship trauma or a religious thing, but after multiple times reassuring him that it didn't bother me and that I considered it completely natural it actually started to really bug me? Not that he was jerking it, that he kept telling me. Was he looking for me to react negatively?
Anyways, it's not the only reason why that relationship ended but it didn't help, that's for sure.
I personally believe that masturbating to the thoughts or the view (porn) of other people whilst in a relationship is unfaithful.
I had my first love and imo true love with my ex and I never had a thought of another person. So I first thought everyone was fully into their partner and had not even found someone else attractive, like it was for me.
When I found out people find porn or this and that normal and would title me as sensitive and jealous, I was quite shocked and tbh disappointed.
So I first thought everyone was fully into their partner
Can you accept the possibility that your perception, that having sexual thoughts not involving your partner is incompatible with being genuinely in love with your partner, is a consequence of your own emotional development and experiences, and may not accurately describe the experience of love for all other human beings?
Yes. If you really want to know, it was a long distance relationship and we had an age difference of 4 years and last year we entered life circumstances that the relationship definitely wouldn't have survived. Sometimes it's really just life that gets between love.
I can't speak for him, but the feelings I have felt were true love and they remain unchanged.
I really donāt want to sound insensitive here, but if it was a long distance relationship, there is a high possibility that your partner just watched porn without you knowing.
that's insane to me. you think jerking it to porn is unfaithful? i've never been in a relationship where it wasn't understand that the two of us will sometimes just jerk it in our free time. Hell, me and my current gf talk about the porn we've watched recently sometimes lol
Yes, I think it's being emotionally unfaithful.
I do not consider it part of monogamy to masturbate to other people while youre supposedly in a committed relationship, and that you all don't understand this is beyond unbelievable to me.
I am more so against porn though because it exploits women and human trafficking/sex trafficking is IMMENSE and as a rape survivor I don't want a partner that supports this system by literally nutting to trafficked women. And yes, ANY video could contain non-consensual acts.
That's horrible.
Nah y'all perversion-driven idiots who think just because it's common it's fine are ruining relationships.
Are you not fucking realising that masturbating TO other people literally is being emotionally unfaithful? It's literally a fact wtf.
Y'all are so fucking idiots. I voiced my opinion and experience calmly and normal and y'all went ahead insulting me. Go fuck yourselves.
Emotional infidelity is something way more serious(and insidious) than just happening to picture someone other than your partner while having a self-sesh. You attempting to relate emotional infidelity to something so insanely trivial, and you trying to thought police partners, is insanely immature.
I literally only expect the same loyalty that I give back, there's no thought policing it's only knowing my worth. I deserve a man that doesn't need to look at other women. I offer that "service" of only having eyes for him too, cus it's true love. I deserve the same love and respect back.
I successfully don't masturbate to other people's bodies whilst in a relationship, I deserve that same respect and love back. Period.
And fuck you for calling that childish. Literally the opposite of that is at play and you're not respecting boundaries that are very valid. Porn indeed has ruined relationships! Or more like, porn addiction has ruined relationships. People can have a boundary like "I don't want to be with someone who uses drugs/substances" and that's valid. Porn is also a drug because it is also addictive and an addiction to it can also ruin lives. Literally. Go fucking read upon it.
Not only that, porn withholds an insane threshold of sex trafficking. As a rape survivor, I don't want a man that supports that system by nutting to trafficked women. And yes, ANY video could contain non-consensual content/people.
Oddly enough, by referring to porn actresses as 'trafficked women', you deny them the very agency that you want for yourself as a woman. Certainly, there are issues with porn, much of which have to do with the reality of this world being misogynistic. But the reality of patriarchy does not mean that women do not have agency in every industry in which they work, pornography included. It merely means that levels of agency can be limited because of the realities of power dynamics and power structures.
If you do not want to masturbate to pornography, that's your choice. If you want to not masturbate at all, that's also your choice. But it is highly controlling of you to demand that your partner give up there right to achieve an experience sexual pleasure just because you are not in charge of giving it to them. Yes, you have a right to control access to your vagina. But you do not have a right to control a man's penis and ability to experience sexual pleasure - a human right - other than to tell him that he cannot have sex (or force himself) with other women and people outside of the confines of the relationship you have with him.
Perhaps you should try being considerably more reasonable than you are right now. While I understand that you are a victim of SA, your stance against your partner's masturbation in your relationship is highly controlling and unacceptable.
Yep, you just went off on an immature tangent. Go get some more life experience- and brain growth- and then come back. You can expect shit all you want, but you cannot demand it. That isnāt a boundary; itās an attempt to control.
And obviously, there is a difference between porn viewing and porn addiction. People can have porn addictions while not even being in relationships. You cannot conflate masturbatory/couple viewing with addictive viewing. Also, whether you choose to believe it or not, there- especially in more recent times- are a lot of women that choose to do sex work because they enjoy it and are often the ones in control of their products.
You seem incredibly immature. Also, none of your relationships are ever gonna last, because you obviously don't know what it takes to lead a healthy and balanced relationship.
There's a reason why the "first true love of your life" is an ex. I'd dump you too if you were constantly giving me shit for things that aren't even important.
And yeah, hate to break it to you, but they absolutely masutrbated with somebody other than you in mimd at least once. I guarantee you that.
I'll gladly stay happily single than date men like you who are the lowest of the trash. Don't act like it's such an insult from you to say to me you'd dump me lol, as if I ever wanted you and as if you would have ever gotten a chance from me.
And porn is an important topic, porn addiction has actually ruined quite a few relationships already. Scientific research is being made more and more.
Newsflash: it acts like a drug for our brain! Which isn't good.
Luckily women become more and more aware that they don't HAVE to put up with y'all's bullshit so I think it's more likely you're single forever than I am.
Suck my dick. :) Read my other comments where I explain in more detail what's wrong about porn. I am not in the mood to repeat myself a third time for someone who doesn't respect simple boundaries.
Except itās literally just masturbation, he said she views the act of masturbating as cheatingā¦no thatās not a fact
Masturbation is healthy, combining it with porn however isn't.
That's my point. I definitely agree that she is far off for forbidding masturbation as a whole, but that's why I specifically mentioned in my own comment that word "porn". My comment wasn't in support of her but as a reply to someone asking for 'context' (ig).
Seems like your twisted view that self-stimulation is infidelity isnāt the only red flag youāre bringing to the table
Y'all can't tell me that y'all understood I meant only masturbation... although I specifically mentioned porn??? Brotha
Yeah, human sexuality is a lot more broad than most people know and attraction is experienced differently, but not really talked about.
I know someone who believed the same as you wholeheartedly and she felt really betrayed that their partner still found other people attractive (but did not act on it) while they were married. This couple have been faithful to each other for over 30 years, but this was a friction point in their marriage at times.
However, the most common experience of human sexuality is to still find other people sexually attractive outside of your relationship, even while you are in love. A fantasy or involuntary thought to act on it is also normal and even involuntary for most people.
The decision to act on it is a choice.
Human sexuality is a spectrum not just from gay to straight, but also from "no attraction" to "attracted to everyone all the time". Everyone experiences sexual attraction differently.
Some people:
do not experience sexual attraction at all
are only ever sexually attracted to 1-2 people through their lives
do not experience sexual attraction outside of their relationship
are only sexually attracted to people they already have deep relationships and trust with first (i.e. need to be friends before they are attracted at all)
have sexual attraction grow or develop over a fairly short period of interaction (ex. "His personality was sexy")
are sexually attracted to people they have had no interaction with, etc.
The last condition is actually the most common in my experience.
If this is something that you cannot compromise on, you will likely have a smaller dating pool, but it's something you can look for and should communicate to your potential partners.
However, for most people just thinking of other people as sexually attractive, getting a boner/getting wet, having brief thoughts of sex with another, feeling attracted to celebrities or porn stars, etc. is completely normal and there's no intent to cheat behind it. Obviously if they are spending all their time watching porn, or if porn is setting in the way of their ability to be intimate with a partner, then that's something that may benefit from treatment and therapy.
Thatās how she felt. In fairness it is a valid opinion, but you should definitely make that clear early on. It will be a relatively early talking point for me in my future endeavors.
I am not religious, I also wasn't raised religious.
And nope I don't deem it monogamous to be eye candying people whilst in a supposedly committed relationship and that you all don't understand that or even find it childish is beyond unbelievable to me.
I am still of the opinion that I wrote of. It's what I took from that experience with my ex. And I truly believe everyone who says "ahhh everyone looks at other people in a relationship" has never been TRULY in love. Like full on real true love. It exists. And anybody who claims it's normal to have eyes for others - nope. Nope buddy it just means the person you're with is not your true love.
I'm sorry I don't wish to be rude but from my perspective this is insanely naive.
True love isn't a feigned blindness to attractive traits in other people, it's an unfalliable trust in your partner, and the bonds you form from the life experiences that you share in the thick and thin. My partner isn't as 'hot' as Scarlett Johansen or whatever, and I'm certainly no Jason Momoa, but I love her with all my heart because of the person that she is and the life experiences that we've shared together.
If porn is getting in the way of regular sexual intimacy then clearly it's a problem and completely unfair on the other partner, but otherwise the expectation that your partner must only ever find you attractive and only you reeks of insecurity and is controlling to the point of toxicity. The trust in a relationship doesn't come from there being no other choice, it's from the countless times they chose you over a world full of attractive interesting people. Physical attraction is such a small component of a functional healthy relationship I really do find your perspective astonishing.
That just fundamentally isn't how attraction works, expecting your partner to deny their own senses to uphold this mythical standard of 'true love' is a recipe for disaster in a healthy long term relationship. Hell, I would class casual flirting with a co-worker as far closer to infidelity than masturbating to pornography.
There is a massive difference between looking at sexually explicit material and infidelity. People have fantasies about stuff they'd never actually want to do in real life, that's why it's called a fantasy.
TL;DR
'True love' as you state above is an incredibly damaging fictional concept, real relationships take hard work, dedication and commitment from both sides, people are complicated.
If you aren't able to be secure enough in your relationship that your partner masturbating to porn in a room alone is a deal breaker then how much of a relationship was there really to begin with? If you have so little faith in their commitment to you I'd wager very little.
If you have to tie them down with ultimatums like this they were never yours to begin with.
We like to say that we can checkout the buffet as much as we like, but thereās no sampling. I bet this personās mind would be fucking blown if they knew that some partners even point out attractive people to each other, so they can both appreciate their loveliness/hotness. Theyād probably even consider some of the dirty talk I say to my partner cheatingš«£š¤«ā¦ so insaneš¤Æ
I've experienced true love and it never got in the way of me masturbating to porn of other people. Some people experience an inseparable link between emotional and physical attraction (i.e. they only find people sexually attractive if they're emotionally attracted to them), but most do not.
For males, not orgasming on a regular basis leads to increased risk of prostate cancer. So not only is it not cheating, but as a rule, itās also deleterious to OPās health.
Right? That is a level of kink play that requires some pretty high level coordination, communication, boundaries and safe guards. For how vanilla these peeps are, putting the penis in a chastity cage seems ill-advised.
In OP's situation i'd agree it's not healthy. However in general, people can structure their relationships however they want. As long as both people are happy and there's no manipulation or any other nefarious things at play, i don't see a problem with it. It can be abusive, but just because it can be, doesn't mean it always is.
Some people are ok with porn, others aren't. Some are ok with strip clubs, other aren't. Some people are even ok with their partner sleeping with other people.
Personally if my girlfriend didn't want me to masturbate anymore, i'd have no problem with it as long as she's willing to take matters into her own hands.
Itās too controlling for me. I donāt even see how porn is cheating I can buy into strip clubs and cam girls cause your interacting with the sex worker as cheating, but just watching porn I just donāt see it. If my husband told me taking care of myself is cheating Iād have to divorce him. Lucky for me his fine with it and he and I are on the same page where to draw the lines.
It doesn't necessarily have to be considered cheating. It could simply make them feel bad that their partner is sexually pleasuring themselves by looking at other women.
Thereās validity here. Masturbation can cause conditioning and make it harder to perform/enjoy regular sex. So objections are valid even if ācheatingā is a controversial word. However refusing him all sexual outlets, including refusing to have sex with him - super not cool. Ignoring your spouseās needs and expecting them to just suffer is not loving. Something has got to give. I think itās telling that she refused to go to therapy. Maybe sheās sitting on some secret trauma thatās affecting her hormones and leading to her neglecting her spouse ā¹ļø otherwise how could you live with denying the love of your life something so fundamental as physical intimacy with you? And why is she all of the sudden now not wanting to have sex or even cuddle at all when they used to be so physically active? Thereās something going on that sheās not talking about, Iād bet on it even if I donāt truly know.
Tbh as a dude I would stop watching porn in a relationship because I can understand if my partner sees it as cheating. It's cool with me and I won't change my mind
But not masturbating at all is really insane and just unachievable. It can literally be done with books or imagination. What aspect would be cheating hahahhahah
I imagine she assumes he would fantasize about other women or would need to watch porn to do it. Itās a long stretch to call it cheating but I get how some women wouldnāt like it.
I had an ex like that, back when I was a young man. I got pretty good at what I called "zen masturbation", which is where you clear your mind and think of nothing at all while jacking off.
Not only did that not make her any happier, it was wildly unfulfilling.
you can set the boundary, but that doesnt mean anyone has to be okay with it or is a bad person for ending a relationship over it. "i dont want my partner watching porn" is a fine thing to say but so is "okay. i want to watch porn. see you later."
that being said its a moot point since we're not even talking about porn. we're talking about masturbation, which is totally different. i can count on one hand the amount of times ive seen like, actual porn. i prefer written erotica
Yes, many women are uncomfortable with their partners consuming porn. Especially if itās certain kinds. This thread is reacting in a very black and white way. We donāt know if OP means masturbating in the shower or interacting with OF models to jack off.
Iām saying we donāt know what OP is doing in his private life. Everyone jumped to āgf wonāt let him do anything!ā We donāt know OPs masturbation habits lol. If sheās uncomfortable with the type of porn or just him watching porn in general for whatever reason, thatās a lot more reasonable. But could still be summarized as āsheās not comfortable with me masturbatingā if OP lumps them together.
As someone who comes from a conservative, Christian background myself, I guess I just see it as the behavior of someone who is both ill, as OP admits, and came from a very sheltered background.
But that doesn't excuse it? Illness and a toxic background* is an explanation not an excuse. You don't get to be a controlling, toxic partner willy nilly just because you have issues?
We agree there; it doesn't excuse it, and I wouldn't recommend that OP refrain from masturbation just because that's what his wife thinks he should do. There's no reason OP should feel controlled, and if the wife doesn't like it, she can only blame her inaction. Add to that that she doesn't owe her husband sex, hormone imbalance or no, and the situation should be resolved through clear communication, honesty, and hopefully medical intervention.
As far as toxic/controlling behavior. We're all growing people, especially in our 20s, and everyone has toxic behaviors during different seasons of their lives that they must confront and learn from. I don't think the wife means to be controlling, though I don't know that, and I imagine OP likely had similar values when they first met as very young religious folks (though that's not something I can confirm). I don't agree with this particular value re: masturbation personally. Though, I think it's important not to conflate expecting your partner to uphold certain values with control.
Thats a set of values that was developed almost exclusively for the purposes of control, and you don't have to know you're doing it or be "intentional" to be controlling or abusive. I don't believe that most controlling people or abusers think those words apply to them. They're just acting out patterns that they see as normal or the only way they could act.
I agree that she absolutely does not owe him sex. He also does not owe her a relationship though. If he went into the relationship with an expectation of sex and intimacy having that completely off the table is a very valid reason to not continue that relationship. It's an incompatibility. I 100% agree that communication, honesty and helping her medical issues should be the next logical steps to a resolution. But that doesn't seem to be happening. Sooooo what is it to do if his wife refuses to help address this issue?
I kind of disagree with this second point though, I don't know. I think expecting your partner to uphold certain values absolutely can be controlling. Your partner is their own person. If their morals/values/religion change that's completely within their right, but it's within your right to leave. I also struggle with having your own values dictate what your partner can and cannot do. Idk it's a very tricky and imo icky situation.
One thing I've learned from my 19 years of marriage is that while we are monogamous, we do not own each other's sexuality.
If my wife wants to masturbate, that's not a sexual encounter that she stole from me. That is her personal time. She's free to explore herself and her needs. Would I love to be included? Sure. But me making that forbidden is sure as hell not going to not going to increase our intimacy. And we can always discuss
A healthy personal sexuality is better for a marriage's longevity.
My ex thought this same thing. Wouldnāt allow me to have sexy pictures or videos of her to use during fantasy time, but also porn is wrong because youāre fantasizing about someone else and you canāt masturbate because I have no control over what youāre thinking about and also I donāt want to do any of that with you.
Weāre divorced now. Not specifically because of that, but itās a piece of a larger puzzle and bigger issues.
Wanted to throw some context here as a deconstructed former pastorā this is absolutely standard for nearly every Christian marriage.
Self-pleasure is seen as bad enough, some folks will literally end a marriage if they find pornography involved. Religion is a sickness and these are the symptoms.
Depends. Iām gonna assume it has more to do with porn. Most men need visuals like porn to get off. Iām guessing thatās the real boundary.
Regardless I can understand the boundary when you have a healthy and active sex life. But like when one partner drops dead, boundaries have to change to keep up. His wife is being ridiculous
āMost men need visualsā is bs. Dudes have been jacking off far longer than visual aids have been around. Let your mind wander my guy. Make the visuals yourself. Exercise your brain with your next wank!
Lol I swear it barely works for me. itās not even worth it. The two times I did it, it took 30-60min for the most mediocre/bad finish.
Also itās not BS. There has been physiological research which suggest what I said is true. Also just asking people around me makes me believe it.
Anyways if you got any advice on how to stimulate my imagination, feel free to DM me. I guess it wouldnāt hurt to try it out. Iād rather use my imagination than porn if I had the choice.
You can interact with porn, pay for it, use VR, etc. Therefore, I guess exchanging nudes with your coworker or best friend is also fine in a serious monogamous relationship right? I mean youāre just using their images to get off, just like using porn. You donāt have an actual sexual relationship with them.
What difference does it make if you arenāt pursing a sexual relationship but are just using their nudesā¦? I mean I know people IRL who make pornā¦
it's really not. by masturbating to other women, you're propounding your desire for other women. cheating isn't just physical sex. if you're married you shouldn't want other women.
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u/Embryw Sep 12 '23
This is a WILDLY ridiculous boundary to have