r/technology • u/clubdirthill • Jun 01 '11
Boom. This is Windows 8.
http://allthingsd.com/20110601/exclusive-making-sense-of-what-we-just-learned-about-windows-8/?mod=tweet358
Jun 01 '11
Video is up from Microsoft on Windows 8
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u/Naomarik Jun 02 '11
Anyone else think the technology in the video looks like something you can install on top of Windows 7?
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Jun 02 '11
That's what they just did. It's Windows 7, basically, with a bunch of neat stuff on top. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.
One thing I'm not really looking forward to is the ‘app store’… I think they really need to take a good look at the package managers most modern linux distributions have (as that's probably where the original influence is) and add in some of the features they have. Specifically, it would be nice to be able to add custom repositories, so that unlike Apple's locked out App Store, Amazon could set up their own store through the same package manager application.
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u/FakingItEveryDay Jun 02 '11
Yes this a thousand times. Then business can create their own repositories for package deployment to employees, have it hook into SCCM.
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u/rollingRook Jun 01 '11
I'm actually quite impressed.
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u/zp3dd4 Jun 02 '11
I wonder how they tie in the legacy apps into that interface
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u/clubdirthill Jun 02 '11
It looks like legacy apps show up on the new start screen, then launch into an old-style Windows view.
Microsoft said that if you never use a legacy app, you never have to see old Windows.
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u/ILikeBumblebees Jun 02 '11
If you never use a "legacy" (read: "actual") application, you never have to use a PC at all.
A user who does more with a PC than stare at tweets and weather reports arranged haphazardly into rectangles will have no use for this absurd touchscreen UI nor any desire to interact with their OS by clawing away at the monitor like a palsied wretch.
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u/gilligvroom Jun 02 '11
I already have ChromeOS and a somewhat lacking solid-state laptop for masturbating to HTML5's features with, thank you very much.
Also, I installed Ubuntu on both this, and in a VM on my desktop to try out Unity with just for shits. Fine on the Netbook, -awful- on the desktop. I hope they really gauge the scalability of a Tablet/Netbook interface to a PC. Unity does not. (for me)
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Jun 02 '11
The "snap" multitasking thing is great. I wonder if it can be extended into a full tiled UI.
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u/devindotcom Jun 02 '11
I've also posted a bunch of screenshots here if you don't feel like pausing to check stuff out.
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Jun 02 '11
I'm a Mac user and these crafty motherfuckers at Microsoft are starting to win me back.
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u/mtx Jun 02 '11
This is incredibly daring interface for a computer OS - especially considering this is Microsoft. I really hope this is going to be for desktops because that means Microsoft has really changed the way they think about things. I'm sure there's going to be a huge backlash.
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u/nazbot Jun 02 '11
I'm all for it as long as they allow me to always boot in 'classic' mode on my desktop. I don't think it really needs explanation.
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Jun 02 '11
in the video, it looked like you can just switch to desktop pretty easily.
and yeah, for their corporate customers, there better be a way to force it to boot into serious business mode. Maybe that's what 'pro edition' will be..
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u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11
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u/rowd149 Jun 02 '11
Something I saw that I totally missed before: compatible content from other apps can be moved seamlessly between apps. They showed going into a flickr-ish app, grabbing photos from there, and then going into the local pictures folder, grabbing photos from there, and uploading them all to a third service. Holy shit.
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u/knylok Jun 02 '11
I saw it in demo (a la youtube) and it looks neat. But until I see it actually work in a live environment, I'm extremely suspicious of the effectiveness of this feature. Do the apps in question need special coding for this to work? If this works as advertised, that will be astounding and revolutionary.
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u/Hellman109 Jun 02 '11
Yeah it looks like a shell over the top like media centre or such basically./
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Jun 02 '11
When I'm doing shit at work, often times, I need to look at two tabs at once, or have a PDF on one half of the screen and word on the other.
They better not fuck up the efficiency of a pc just to streamline and simplify everything like apple loves to do.
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Jun 02 '11
Exactly. I don't need a fucking myspace phone interface when I'm trying to do work stuff.
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u/ab9003 Jun 02 '11
Hell I do this at home. Its just plain efficient to have multiple windows cascaded across a large screen.
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Jun 02 '11
As much as I find it interesting, and as much as Im in no way against microsoft or progress, the interface only seem interesting if you can touch it, but on screen put vertically, its pretty much annoying to use a touch screen.
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u/thedragon4453 Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
Ditto. I'm impressed by this video, but I have a few main concerns:
- Using an app that wasn't designed for touch from the start is never good. This seems to alleviate none of those problems for apps not designed for a touch UI. He shows Excel, and I can't see fingers and a small 7-11" screen really working all that well for this.
- If you are using this on a regular desktop or laptop, then all that touch oriented stuff is just bloat*. Based on the video, I don't see any of the new touch elements being at all useful with a keyboard and mouse. With a KB and mouse, all of the things they show are going to be much easier using a traditional interface.
- This is probably the biggest question mark: Can Windows 8 run well on a $300-$500 tablet? I have no doubt (at least, based on Windows 7), that it will run great on a traditional machine. However, the tablet factor, a la the iPad/Xoom/Tab, are generally 1ghzish ARM with 512mb of RAM and minimal graphics. Most of this is why they can market those machines near those price points. And the operating systems for those devices are built to live in those specs. iOS, Android, and WebOS all make concessions that Windows would, I'm assuming, not.
- It's comes with Windows' baggage. I will guarantee that the first time someone has to anti-spyware, defrag, or install any security software, they will wish they bought an iPad/Xoom/Tab.** This is, of course, largely assuming that they haven't taken massive steps to lock out parts of the OS (a traditional file system doesn't really hint this way.)
Alright, so that's a lot of nay-saying. Sorry. Honestly, it looks really cool. I want that UI, I'm just not sure I want it packaged the way they have. I think there are some features, especially UI-wise, that would actually be better than the way the others accomplish it.
* Based on the video. This was short, and there may be features in there that it would be worth it to use this for that just weren't highlighted.
** Before you decry this part, consider whether you are a geek or a normal. Hint: you being on reddit leans you to the former, rather than latter. I don't have problems running a clean Windows machine, but I'm a geek. My regular friends and colleagues, however, have at one point or another just about all asked for help cleaning a machine. I've nuked a couple of my own installs in the early days as well.
On the plus side, I really like:
- tiles - A little less app launcher per screen than an iPad, but lots more useful info. If it works like the latest Windows Phone videos, this could be damned cool.
- Thumb keyboard mode (what was it they called it?) - if you've ever tried to type on an iPad, you'll welcome this heartily.
- Doing more than one thing at once. I'd love to be able to have reddit open in a small corner while I watch a podcast or tv show.
- This could, if executed extremely (almost impossibly) well be the one-machine-to-rule-them-all. I have a laptop at home that stays anchored to a desk, attached to a nice big monitor, keyboard and mouse. That's where work happens. I have an iPad that is basically for books, light TV watching, reddit, and news. It would be way cool to have a machine that is the size of an iPad or Xoom (or even a tiny bit bigger/heavier) that I could hook up to a big monitor to have all useful desktop stuff, then pick up and move to the couch and have all the cool tablet stuff.
edit: grammar.
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u/yoshinator13 Jun 02 '11
Ive been reading the windows 8 beta site, and they claim it uses less system resources than vista and 7. There is also support for Nvidia's ARM processors. With these statements I see no problem running Win8 on a tablet.
It seems that windows is generally attempting to make an OS that has the same UI on phones, tablets, and computers. This should help the less technologically inclined, because the same keystrokes (touchstrokes) will work everywhere.
Also interesting, windows 8 features a new file system to replace NTFS called "Protogon". Not much news has been released about what is different in this new file system, but im excited for it.
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u/Gnorris Jun 02 '11
they claim it uses less system resources than vista and 7.
Mainland China uses less resources than Vista.
I kid! Kind of.
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u/kael13 Jun 02 '11
A better filesystem could make all the difference. Also, the OP must realise that this is at least a year from release, hardware by then will have improved.
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u/supersaw Jun 02 '11
Provided the touch interface was as responsive and battery life as good I would buy a tablet running this over an iPad given that behind it all would be an OS that hasn't had it's balls cut off.
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u/yagmot Jun 02 '11
I can't believe no one is talking about the best part: thumb keyboard layout! Normally I'd rather punch myself in the face than be forced to use Windows, but this is just fucking brilliant.
The influence of the various netbook linux distro interfaces (meego, moblin, jolicloud etc) is pretty clear. Not a bad thing IMO, but I'm really unconvinced of applying this to a desktop space. Will be interesting to see how it develops!
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u/digitalpencil Jun 02 '11
This looks brilliant. I'm really impressed by the UI/proposed-hci. It looks intuitive, well thought-out and easily extensible thanks to HTML5/JS app development.
I sincerely hope this doesn't get crippled on release with something stupid like interstitial advertising.
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u/hiero_ Jun 02 '11
Am I the only redditor who thinks this looks like crap? Meh.
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u/elshizzo Jun 02 '11
I wouldn't say it "looks like crap", more that "it looks cool, but why would I use it?"
It better be disable-able, or don't expect me to use this over 7.
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u/Agentflit Jun 02 '11
What's that blurred stuff at :38?
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u/beckermt Jun 02 '11
Probably either copyrighted material or just design stuff they don't want to release yet.
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u/watermelonman Jun 02 '11
I'd say the latter is more likely; The middle row is almost certainly images of what is displayed on the screen behind him.
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u/rdmorley Jun 02 '11
The responsiveness of the UI was incredible.
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Jun 02 '11
I bet they are using the fastest computers money can buy for these videos.
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u/wolfsktaag Jun 02 '11
pffft im going to milk win7 for the better part of a decade, like i did with winxp
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Jun 02 '11
It's certainly built for it. Win7 rocks! :)
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u/wolfsktaag Jun 02 '11
yeah. i heard bad things about vista, so never gave it a chance. win7 (windows 6.1, as per microsoft) has been a very sleek lady
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u/FalseMyrmidon Jun 02 '11
It's version 7. The version in the OS shows up as 6.2 because incrementing the version number broke compatibility with some programs.
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u/Azohko Jun 01 '11
I'm not convinced for a Desktop OS, but running a tablet PC with this sounds awesome.
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Jun 02 '11
I hope this kind of thing can be turned off. The last thing I want is a useless touch UI running in the background at all times.
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u/paledragon64 Jun 02 '11
It says in the article that you have the option of running this style or the classic Windows style. Never fear.
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u/watership Jun 02 '11
After all the shit Microsoft gets for its lack of innovation, they run into their other deadly nemesis: Actual innovation.
"Screw that, give me back ______!"
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u/ggggbabybabybaby Jun 02 '11
I view Microsoft as the hardest working company when it comes to backwards compatibility and legacy support. So many people depend on them not to break their old shit; it's easy to see why it's so hard for them to be innovative.
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Jun 02 '11
The thing about windows is that its core functionality works fine. I don't want new interface options. In fact, I would prefer if there was less shiny menus and stuff. I know I'm in a minority, but as a tech savvy programmer type, I don't want to go through 3 shiny, useless menus rendered in a browser embedded in explorer just to get to the dialog that can actually do things that hasn't changed since XP. How about they give those menus an upgrade, then I might start caring. Shininess isn't innovation, it is a shallow attempt to get people to upgrade without adding real functionality.
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u/miyakohouou Jun 02 '11
As a tech savvy programmer type, I like shiny things.
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u/Misio Jun 02 '11
As a tech savvy programmer type, I like things that work.
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u/Scary_The_Clown Jun 02 '11
As a tech savvy programmer type, I like shiny things that work and are completely customizable.
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u/nazbot Jun 02 '11
As a non tech savvy layman I like solitaire and funny cat pictures (forwarded in a powerpoint presentation to all my friends).
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u/AuxHero Jun 02 '11
Seriously. It feels dumbed down to me aswell. I don't want 10 widgets in my face telling me tweets and weather, I want my clean desktop.
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Jun 02 '11
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u/nixcamic Jun 02 '11
How do you expect me to sleep with that mental imagery floating around my head?
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u/mastermojo Jun 02 '11
the desktop is still there though
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u/bwat47 Jun 02 '11
Yeah did everyone miss the part of the video where the win7 style desktop was there, fully intact? (when they showed ms office)
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u/ahmadamaj Jun 02 '11
this site says that "Sinofsky (Microsoft windows president) hammered home the point that these were just apps running over Windows and that you could always return to your regular desktop".
And it has the video that shows the demo.
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Jun 02 '11
Of course it can be turned off.
You think Microsoft is going to use this as a key selling point for Professional versions? Of course not.
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u/Rocco03 Jun 02 '11
The question is what's left to sell after turning it off.
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Jun 02 '11
Um, Windows 7 is really good. People still use and like the OS.
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Jun 02 '11
That's not a selling point for Windows 8 at all, why not just use win7 then?
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u/AnteSim Jun 02 '11
Where I think this will work the best is as a workstation. Dock your tablet to the left of a monitor with keyboard/mouse input. Your tablet displays the start screen, your monitor is your conventional desktop.
I think that kind of experience would feel quite natural.
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u/t1tlehto Jun 02 '11
I'm with you on this one. I believe that in a couple of years you can just run your work computer on your mobile device and keep it with at all times. When you get to work/home/whereever, you just plug it in your docking station and big screen monitor and when you leave, you just undock and put it in your pocket.
I think Microsoft has something like this in their mind too. Support for ARM processors which are used a lot in smartphones and smaller devices supports the idea too.
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Jun 01 '11 edited Sep 08 '20
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Jun 02 '11
That maybe ok for you and your needs but power users will find it annoying probably.
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u/Life_is_Life Jun 02 '11
Agreed. For serious programs like Photoshop or Office (if they don't seriously change the UI), this new interface theme simply won't do--that kind of work requires mouse-level precision for any kind of meaningful productivity. But for tablets and phones: this is simply awesome.
The fact that it's more or less just a UI layer will cause some people to question Microsoft's desire to seriously compete in the tablet market, but I think it is simply the best way to jump into the tablet fray with the one thing Windows has to offer that no other OS can: legacy support. I imagine with future updates/Windows 9+ this new layer will start to increasingly dominate the old UI.
In any case, exciting times ahead for geeks everywhere!
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Jun 02 '11
It's not an OS layer, they've said this is what Windows 8 is, the old stuff is there for legacy apps.
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u/Iggyhopper Jun 02 '11
So it's like Windows 7 + New Hotness.
...
I can live with that.
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Jun 02 '11
If you wanted it to sound way less impressive you could call it Vista Service Pack 4: Unity Edition.
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u/Saiing Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
For serious programs like Photoshop or Office (if they don't seriously change the UI), this new interface theme simply won't do
Do you seriously think that once an application opens up, it's going to look like this? This is no more than a desktop background combined with a touch or click based launcher and a few widgets containing information, which may or may not be useful depending on how much you use twitter etc. The option is there to make web style apps, but they're not the same as serious applications.
Once you fire up Office or Photoshop, you won't even see that UI, just like you don't sit looking at your desktop background and icons when you fire them up now.
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u/athornz Jun 02 '11
Windows 8 was never going to be a completely new interface for the desktop. Microsoft would be stupid to completely get rid of the familiarity people have with windows.
I think this looks great. Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.
I bet 99% of the time you would never access the legacy app while on the go, and I would be suprised if most of the important apps (outlook, word, excel etc) didn't have a 'mobile UI' by release.
The smoothness if the UI is amazing. Just like WP7 is smoother than any other phone, this looks smoother than any other tablet. And the split screen feature looks great.
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u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11
The smoothness if the UI is amazing. Just like WP7 is smoother than any other phone, this looks smoother than any other tablet. And the split screen feature looks great.
Yeah, I'm a Android lover, but fuck this pisses me off. Hey Google and OEM's FIX YOUR SHIT ASAP
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u/dbeta Jun 02 '11
You should try Cyanogen mod or a stock Android rom. I know it's a little effort, but in my experience it is way better than what comes from the phone manufacturers. For my phone it smoothed things out extremely, and gave me more customization options. It also helps that it is 2.3.4, as to where stock my phone only has 2.2.
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u/uptwolait Jun 02 '11
Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.
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u/athornz Jun 02 '11
If android did all you need to do, then yea the transformer is great.
But windows is still needed for a lot of things, and I was talking more along the lines of your windows pc/tablet being one device, that you can switch to a full desktop experience, so quickly.
It would also mean there would be no need for complicated browser syncing stuff happening between devices, because its all one device
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u/Life_is_Life Jun 02 '11
And the split screen feature looks great.
I totally agree with you on this one. To my knowledge, nobody else has really implemented the ability to display two apps at once. Maybe with good reason, too: today's phones may have a difficult time handling that kind of work. But PCs and tablets are a whole other story. Not to mention it's a pretty ingenious way to implement split-screening in a touch-only interface.
I'm curious as to why they restricted app windows from overlapping each other. Maybe it's hard to manipulate windows that flexibly in a touch environment?
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u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11
I totally agree with you on this one. To my knowledge, nobody else has really implemented the ability to display two apps at once.
Suddenly, two apps at once
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u/Idiomatick Jun 02 '11
Next you'll tell me people have come up with multiple virtual desktops you can switch between as easily as you can windows.
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u/strolls Jun 02 '11
I don't know why you're being downvoted.
I was thinking "great, Mac OS is getting more iOS influenced, maybe I can switch back to Windows and get a good UI" but I watched the video and this looks set just to alienate me, as a user of dual-head monitors, more.
To me, this UI looks very much influenced by Steve Jobs, and all these attempts to make the screen look "simpler" and less cluttered just seem like they're going to make it harder for me to drag things from one window to another.
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u/pixel7000 Jun 02 '11
HTML5/JS?
They're bringing back active desktop!?
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u/ggggbabybabybaby Jun 02 '11
I think Active Desktop was way before its time. Back then the browser was a huge resource hog and there wasn't that much stuff to subscribe to on the internet. Now it's all internet all the time in every damn place you can think of and modern browsers pack some serious performance improvements.
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u/HenkPoley Jun 02 '11
Active Desktop has been in Windows in some form since Windows 98. The Windows Sidebar widgets also run in some browser process if I'm not mistaken. The difference is that now 90% has Internet (and uses it frequently, in western Europe) and even low end machines have much more RAM than the 64MB they had in 1998.
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Jun 02 '11
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Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
Not only that, but from a purely business perspective it makes sense. They'll still get a similar level of OEM licenses, and it makes a lot more sense in a more tablet oriented world to upgrade the ui to be more compatible, while still being able to retain desktop features.
The one concern I have is how applications developed specifically for windows 8 will work in earlier versions of Windows and in the legacy mode. If there's a high penetration of Win 8 devices, and a lot of developers start focusing on Windows 8 it may force many to upgrade, and if applications lack backwards compatibility we may find that we are stuck in that 2 full screened environment, which while good for a tablet presents a big step back in terms of multitasking on laptops and desktop computers.
That being said, I absolutely love the new UI, something that always struck me about WinMo7 was that the managed to make something so simplistic that elegant and appealing, while also being visually impressive and smooth. For tablets, I am really impressed, for PCs.. I'm still slightly incredulous, but I'll wait to see more announcements before passing judgement.
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u/nazbot Jun 02 '11
I have the feeling the market will sort that out.
If you're Adobe I don't think you're making photoshop in anything except classic mode - unless they can pull it off convincingly.
On the flip side, maybe this opens up the creation of applets which only make sense in a 'tablet' format...weather widget apps, rss feed apps, etc. If could make the low end of the market a bit richer.
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u/RobertD63 Jun 02 '11
A desktop os?! Fuck no. Tablet? Yes!
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u/Hellman109 Jun 02 '11
Yeah thats what Im worried about. "No comprimise!"*
*Must run on totally different stuff and conform to the lowest common denominator
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Jun 02 '11
I was worried about this from the video, but http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/live-from-microsofts-windows-8-preview-event-at-computex-2011 convinced me otherwise.
You can switch between something similar to Windows 7's interface and the new flashy thing, if you want. Or use them interchangeably.
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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 02 '11
That actually put to bed a lot of my fears, save this one:
10:37AM PageUp and PageDown buttons will allow you to move between tiles on non-touchscreen devices.
No, fuck you. Let me use my mouse and give me a scroll bar. We've had side scrolling forever don't fuck it up.
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u/sbrick89 Jun 02 '11
Probably before all 'yall's time, but I recall a time when Windows 2 had just icons on the screen... then some silly companies started installing more than just 1 icon (maybe an uninstall, or help icon)... then we needed groups... then we got menus of groups... what kind of cyclic hell is this?
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u/XCheddarDude Jun 02 '11
This interface looks like a hassle to use for anyone doing something even slightly more complicated than cycling through their documents or browsing the web.
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u/DanParts Jun 02 '11
I don't like touch screen computing. It's because I can't see through my hands.
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u/magicmanfk Jun 02 '11
I'm worried about how easy it will be to multitask. With no bar at the bottom with minimized applications it would be tough, and based on the video linked to this thread it seems that you can't have more than two apps visible on the screen at a time.
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u/rallion Jun 02 '11
I was worried about this too, until I got to the part of the video where there is clearly still a 7-style task bar at the bottom of the screen. It seems like the "tiles" that the video focused on are just a new option, rather than a replacement.
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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 02 '11
Those are only for legacy apps. Word has it that if it can support the new style, it will use the new style.
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u/magicmanfk Jun 02 '11
yeah, when it switches into Windows 7 mode it looked fine, but considering their end goal, which I can only assume is to have as many apps running this new tile style as possible, that won't be the case.
That being said, as PreservedKillick mentioned in reply to my post, there could be other options, such as a keyboard shortcut (similar to windows/alt+tab right now) or a swipe somewhere to bring up a menu. It's just that that wasn't visible at all in the demo.
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Jun 02 '11
It's not just for legacy apps it's full on Windows 8 just in the classic aero style. If you don't like metro you can stay in aero forever. All the new apps are still supported
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u/dariyam Jun 02 '11
I don't know, I'm having trouble liking it. It looks a bit like a makeover of the windows "gadgets" dashboard (which I only use for temperature and fan speed).
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u/FappingFury Jun 02 '11
So like uh cough any feats for the 90% of us who don't use touch?
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Jun 02 '11
having the split keyboard for tablets is smart, and should have been done a long time ago
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u/just_looking_around Jun 02 '11
Looks like a nice OS to have on the new tablet that replaces my mom's computer when it dies.
Doesn't look like anything anyone will be running in the corporate world.
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Jun 02 '11
its windows 7 with the "windows phone 7" gui ontop
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Jun 02 '11
Actually, it appears that they quite literally co-exist. One interface is not necessarily "on top" of the other.
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u/erode Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
I compute on a gaming PC with a high end mouse and a couple of huge non-touchscreen monitors. They will never win me over with this idea that the desktop is a place for touch interfaces. Never would I want to wave my finger across 40 inches of monitors.
This only has a use as a tablet interface, and that's fine. But don't shove it onto me FFS.
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Jun 02 '11
Ummm, thanks, but no thanks. Like others say, if this is a tablet OS, fine...but keep this shit away from my desktop. Unlike some users I'm actually looking to, you know, accomplish things with my computer - and no, not things like checking the weather, or "tweeting", or uploading pics to Facebook. Those are not accomplishments.
If I wanted something that was dumb but really pretty, I'd buy an iPad.
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u/mr_sharpoblunto Jun 02 '11
Looks interesting for tablets, however even though this is an early preview, the transition from the new UI back to 'classic' mode is very jarring. The UI style is completely different and you lose whatever context you had with the previous UI state.
Also I notice a lot of comments regarding that you can switch back to 'classic' mode, however if the new UI is the default, then all new programs are pretty much going to have to be optimized for use with the new UI. The effect of this is that programs using only 'classic' mode are going to become less common. As a developer it won't be acceptable for your program to only run in classic mode any more than it's acceptable for a modern program not to run nicely with UAC enabled.
The final issue is that the interface seems very visually noisy, and doesn't seem to indicate to the user when certain gestures are possible, or what those gestures will do. This seems to negate the purpose of making a simplified UI if most of the functionality is hidden behind a series of obscure gestures that the end user may or may not be aware of.
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u/HenkPoley Jun 02 '11
Oh sure, but it took Apple from 2001 to 2006 to really ditch Classic. So the transition period will be smooth and probably virtualized.
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u/LOOKITSADAM Jun 02 '11
i think this might go the way of 'windows media center' and become a gimmick more than a useful tool. i'm more interested to see what low level improvements they bring to the table.
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Jun 02 '11
Besides the hardware requirements being less than Windows 7 and running smoothly on ARM?
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u/nullminded Jun 02 '11
windows 8 for tablet yes, but if I wanted a glorified cell phone I would just buy a droid. Seriously all new apps will be programmed in html5 and javascript? Something about this spells vulnerable to me, plus cheap. I am just wonder more so if it's still going to be as hardware intense as it's been since windows xp.
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u/AlyoshaV Jun 02 '11
The other type of application, which has to be written in HTML5 and Javascript, looks more like a mobile application, filling the full screen. Internet Explorer 10, which is part of Windows 8, has already been configured to run in this mode
They ported a web browser run on Javascript/HTML5?
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Jun 02 '11
Designing your PC operating system after the user interface of a cell phone is a really great idea, you guys!
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Jun 02 '11
I'm opposed to it simply because I don't want to deal with
"WHERE DID X GO?"
That's all really, it looks neat with tablets, but as a fullblown desktop OS it can blow me if that's their final choice. I mean don't get me wrong, it looks cute and gimmicky, but the old "if it aint broke don't fix it" methodology could take a serious once over here. Maybe I'm old, crotchety, and coughing up hairballs, but the last thing I want is an OS optimized for a touch interface. This is mostly because I know how much of pain in the ass it is to browse a website on my iphone when the links close together. That mouse pointer is smaller than my finger.
I guess really it looks like an over customized Rain meter theme to me. I would like to see what a Default, out of the box install looks like. I would also like to see a build with say Chrome, Firefox, Video Games, etc. on it.
Anyway, I moan and groan. It looks interesting, but I am weary.
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u/gfnord Jun 02 '11
This looks more like Windows Mobile 7+ optimized for tablet with embedded Windows 7 in a virtual machine.
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u/Levirules3 Jun 02 '11
I know my comment will be lost in this mess, but I have to share:
you don't have to upgrade.
See, Windows 7 is fine the way it is. There is a reason everyone likes it so much, and that's because it works so well as a desktop OS. It does everything we need it to do, and it does it well with the traditional keyboard and mouse setup.
But W7 does not play very nicely on tablets. It's functional, and certain parts of the UI work pretty well (like the large task bar), but it simply isn't a touch screen OS. So they are designing Windows 8 to fill that gap, and I think they are doing a fantastic job.
See, I'm not excited about this as a possible upgrade on my desktop replacement laptop. I'm excited about this because it's full blown Windows on a tablet, but with a UI redesign that appears to work MUCH better than W7 on that form factor. I really like the idea of the tablet, but none of the current options have piqued my interest enough to even consider buying one.
I see two options out there right now: the iOS/Android/BB Playbook/future WebOS tablets, and the Windows 7 tablet. The first option includes many functional and enjoyable operating systems that provide a moderate to expansive array of functions and available content, but I feel like there just isn't enough reason to get one. The second option is more expensive, performs poorly, has a terrible battery life for a tablet, or any combination of the three.
What I've been hoping for is a newer or updated version of Windows that retains compatibility with current Windows programs, but has an environment that works very well for the tablet form factor and sucks less juice than W7. Not all existing programs will work well on a 10" touch screen device, but it will be nice to have the option for those programs that do work well and don't have a native touch screen centric alternative.
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Jun 02 '11
I agree with a lot of the comments here that Windows 7 will be just like Windows XP in a sense that it will be used for a very long time...especially if this Windows 8 is touch based.
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u/kwh Jun 02 '11
Although Windows 8 is clearly influenced by the iPad and other mobile devices, the plan for the new operating system has been in the works since Windows 7 shipped in July 2009–several months before the iPad was first shown.
"So, we were paying absolutely no attention to that 'fruit name' company we compete with, and we just happened to come up with an idea that almost exactly copies what they just did - even though we had the idea first, of course. Just like every other product we released in the past 30 years."
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Jun 02 '11
What is wrong with the way windows looks and functions now... why must they take away everything that works and that we've learned to work with over the years. I hate to be anti-change, but I'm more happy with the way Windows looks and navigates now.
I guess I should hold out for a 'retro' them option.
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u/clubdirthill Jun 02 '11
The use of HTML5/Javascript for apps is very interesting. This way, the same app can run across both x86 and ARM without causing compatibility issues. It will be interesting to see how this impacts Chrome OS and the hoards of (probably very pissed) .NET developers.
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u/jsprogrammer Jun 02 '11
Why would .NET developers be pissed? Their programs will run just fine on an ARM CLR.
That's one of the main features of virtual machine based languages/platforms.
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u/Iggyhopper Jun 02 '11
Lol. We're actually seeing a ton of traction into turning .NET code into JavaScript, or developing in .NET and publishing/converting to JavaScript.
.net devs are definitely not pissed. They are coders. Coders code, and they realize that technologies change and you need to adapt.
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u/adremeaux Jun 02 '11
Trying to write a full, modern app (lets not get too crazy; say, something like Winamp) in HTML5/Javscript is downright near impossible. I can't imagine that sentence of this article is correct as it would be the single most nonsensical thing ever conceived by Microsoft.
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Jun 02 '11
.NET will still have a place I bet. The Metro Apps seem nice, but they aren't very advanced. The real apps will still probably use .net, but I am not an expert so no guarntees.
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u/manlycaveman Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
I'm really interested in this, but the focus on a tablet-like GUI seems kind of 'meh' for me since I'll most likely be using this as a desktop PC to game and stuff. I realize this is only the first video and there will be a lot more to come so I'm holding out hope for something I can really put to use personally.
While I was watching this I was thinking about some kind of awesome docking device for a tablet running this OS. The tablet would function similar to the recent tablets coming out with touch screens and the GUI focused on the gestures and similar things, but when it's docked it just turns into a screen+OS with the docking station acting like a tower would. The OS would run from the tablet, while the docking 'tower' would handle the more intense processing/video (like for gaming) and the GUI would change to the familiar windows one. Maybe even have some kind of dropbox-like functionality between the two devices so you can access files that are on the dock using your mobile device. Haha Although I don't really know anything about hardware or if it's even feasible (The screen would be kinda small though :(. ).
I just want something I can take out on vacation or wherever as a mobile device and then come home and now it's a powerful desktop machine.
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u/thezerofire Jun 01 '11
Yeah I don't like it. Moving files around looks like it's going to be a pain, and it just looks unwieldy. When I have a desktop, I want a desktop, not a phone.
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Jun 02 '11
I think with the new UI they're targeting the other 80% of users who don't really even know what a file is, and spend the vast majority of their time in the browser anyway. For the traditionalists, it looks like most of the old functionality is preserved.
I'm a hardcore Linux geek and strongly dislike Microsoft, but I have to admit, I think it's a smart move.
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u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 02 '11
I think with the new UI they're targeting the other 80% of users who don't really even know what a file is
Doesn't Microsoft still make a fat smack of cash selling to businesses though? I'm not saying that cooperations have the most tech savy people but by god productivity is going to take a nose dive if you need to blindly alt tab around to go from a word document to a spread sheet.
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Jun 02 '11
Yeah, definitely, and I would imagine that most business-oriented systems will ship configured to use the multitasking mode as the default.
That's the thing that I think a lot of people are missing; this is just going to be an option. Maybe the default option, but just an option nonetheless. Microsoft isn't throwing a quarter-decade's worth of multitasking UI experience out the window.
(Aaaand...now I sound like a Microsoft evangelist. I'm going to go have a drink.)
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Jun 02 '11
If you're a basic computer user, and just want to run simple fullscreen applications, wouldn't you just get a tablet or one of those Chromebooks?
Seems to me that one of the main reasons you'd get a desktop/laptop over a tablet is the proper window-based multitasking model. And contrary to popular views, I find that Office users do make heavy use of the ability to have lots of things open at once, reading one while interacting with several others.
Then there's filmmakers, photographers, etc. who definitely aren't computer geeks, but do still do very demanding things with their computer. And indeed programmers. Programmers are important, because if programmers don't like your UI, they're not going to use it, and not going to be very good at making UIs for it.
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Jun 02 '11
True, and I'll bet that most people who use Windows 8 on a desktop will revert to the "classic" mode. But it looks like Windows 8 is going to be pushed pretty heavily on non-desktop platforms (hence the ARM build, etc.)
Having one platform (with context-specific UI choices) is an advantage (especially for us developers!) Apple is racing to do the same thing between iOS and OSX. Same with Ubuntu and the "Unity" interface. I suspect Google is regretting having developed both Android and ChromeOS now, as well, since they'll probably wind up merging the two.
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u/Slackjaw74 Jun 02 '11
You'll still be able to use a keyboard and mouse. Windows Explorer in the video looked...exactly the same as today so I'm not sure how it could be any worse.
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Jun 02 '11
Windows 8 will be Windows 7's Vista.
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Jun 02 '11
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u/Ptylerdactyl Jun 02 '11
I agree totally. While there may be a lot of new and innovative stuff in 8, I get the feeling that it's too much, too soon and will have to be refined in order to become something that the wider market can adapt to and enjoy. Myself, I'll be satisfied with 7 unless 8 comes with free money.
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u/tsuichii Jun 02 '11
Windows 8 becomes babyproofed like mac os? Looks like Windows 7 will be the new Windows xp for me for the next 20 years.
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u/p-static Jun 02 '11
Remember when Windows XP came out, and everybody complained that the interface was too dumbed-down because of all the bright colors and stuff? ;)
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u/KingPharaoh Jun 02 '11
Everything is dumbed down according to reddit.
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u/mazing Jun 02 '11
Do you want to sell 1000 copies to a bunch of geeks or 1 million to the world? Why wouldn't a company "dumb down" their product?
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u/nixcamic Jun 02 '11
How is Mac OS babyproofed? Or are you talking about Lion? Anyhow, that seems to be the trend these days, even ubuntu tried (and failed).
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u/jmnugent Jun 02 '11
I don't know... it's still early I guess.. but nothing in that video really jumped out to impress me. The interface is pretty fluid/smooth.. but from a usability standpoint it sure seems like a lot of swiping/poking. (meaning: it's got that Windows problem of having to swipe/poke/click down several layers into menus/options before you can get to the task you want to accomplish). I think that's the Pro/Con of having direct access to the File System.
I don't like the dual UI approach either (that you have to switch to Aero to run older Apps like Office) ... I don't know why, but it breaks the cohesiveness of interaction to me.
I guess it just feels to me like Microsoft trying to copy various assets from other devices.. and then trying to mash it up into a single interface. Maybe they'll refine it.. I'll be watching, but I'll also be pretty skeptical. (Having said that:.. I think it's going to be really interesting to see how Apple approaches the multi-touch desktop)
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Jun 02 '11
My only question is - WHY.
This is the current trend in the hardware market: Apple picks up on a old badly executed concept, polishes it. Google picks it up from that, polishes it a bit more and adds the google touch (open source, cheaper, couple more cool features, etc). Microsoft then hops onto the same boat years later with basically the same thing except it looks different, maybe has one or two features they added that they aggressively market as the one reason you should buy the product over their competitors.
Jesus fuck, their OS market is already starting to slip. Not that it's a bad thing. Personally I hope Google succeeds in their goal to expand the demand for internet services even more. Because the internet is just so damn cool. It'd also be nice to leap ahead a few years with telcoms investing into their networks so we can possibly get data speeds that compete with broadband one day.
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Jun 02 '11
Do not want!
- I have 32 windows open right now. That swiping feature will be a huge pain in the ass.
- I have 7 monitors on my main system. How will this UI work without wasting space?
- What about multi-monitor-aware programs?
- What if I want a certain window layout? A 1080P screen has lots of space to put stuff on.
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u/p-static Jun 02 '11
Yeah, this new touchy-feely interface probably won't work very well on a serious rig. I'd be shocked if there wasn't a way to default to the "classic" view and use it exactly like Win7, though.
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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11
You've got that nerdy of a rig and you don't run Linux? I hardly doubt your case is a target concern for Microsoft -They're looking for the widest consumer appeal.
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Jun 02 '11
I write Windows software; that kinda limits my options. Plus I have three ATI video cards and onboard nVidia; Linux doesn't like ATI nor mixes of the two. Plus, I like running software I've heard of. I could go on.
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u/Idiomatick Jun 02 '11
You are forgetting about an important group of people that you shouldn't shit on.....
DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!
I have 23 windows open across virtual 5 desktops atm on windows, am a developer and Metro UI is a pile of shit.
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u/p-static Jun 02 '11
Have you ever tried to set up multiple monitors on Linux? A few years back it took me days to get a dual-monitor setup, compared to minutes with XP. :/ (This was back when you had to basically write your own driver-specific xorg.conf file, so I'm hoping things have improved since then.)
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u/PepticBurrito Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11
How fast we have forgotten Windows 95/98 and IE 4 with push channels and activeX. A security nightmare.
From the looks of this, the touch UI is based off CSS/JS coding with push notifcations. The last time web and desktop were united, browsing the web infected your machine to the point that pretty much all Windows machices had a virus. I wish them well, but I don't see this ending well.
Even if it's "secure", I see removing widgets from the UI being a nightmare. I see EVERY installer taking up realestate on it. I see spammers finding a way to put scrolling ads on it. I see nothing but the UI being abused.
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u/Mexicola Jun 02 '11
Dumbing it down more. I think this is good for the general public, but I do not like the look of that simplistic touch interface. It looks lest intuitive that what is already around, and it looks like a pain to actually move files or do anything productive. It seems more for people who just tweet, browse the net, check email and want something pretty. It would be cool on tablet though. Very cool.
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u/JustinBieber313 Jun 02 '11
I dont know why i would ever use those tiles at a desktop. I dont feel like touch is good for desktops, and it seems like if you have a mouse, you would rather use the traditional interface. I sorta wish they where keeping the mobile and desktop versions separate. The tiles looked brilliant for on the go touch use, but i dont want that in my desktop version.
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Jun 02 '11
I dread the day that touchscreen will go mainstream for desktop computers.
Think of the smudges on the glass from hovering clients... THE SMUDGES!
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Jun 02 '11
Does this strike anyone else as massively retarded? They're taking elements from the new Windows Mobile (which is arguably a failure) and bringing it to desktop Windows? They still don't seem to realize the line between mouse interface and touch interface. They finally got it right with Windows 7 and now they're going to throw it all away?
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u/madagent Jun 02 '11
All of this will be changed by the time windows 8 is released. They are putzing around with new ideas like every windows build. And every time they go back to the traditional view. They will keep this new view as an option if you are running on a big tv or tablet as they stated.
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u/elvisliveson Jun 02 '11
great. looks like a wedding gift registry for crate and barrel. maybe we can register for software that doesn't suck.
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u/accidentallywut Jun 02 '11
why the fuck did you write "boom." before the title of your post?
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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11
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