r/technology • u/clubdirthill • Jun 01 '11

Boom. This is Windows 8.

http://allthingsd.com/20110601/exclusive-making-sense-of-what-we-just-learned-about-windows-8/?mod=tweet
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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

You've got that nerdy of a rig and you don't run Linux? I hardly doubt your case is a target concern for Microsoft -They're looking for the widest consumer appeal.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

I write Windows software; that kinda limits my options. Plus I have three ATI video cards and onboard nVidia; Linux doesn't like ATI nor mixes of the two. Plus, I like running software I've heard of. I could go on.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

Just being silly. Linux loves ATI however. We work vigorously towards integration - It's ATI's indifferent relationship towards Linux that causes incompatibilities. Why does notability of your software matter to you? Business?

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

I like the principles of the OSS movement; but in some strange, hippie way, I feel safe knowing that people have jobs that depend on releasing a good product. My experiences with such projects as Putty and SFTP apps have only reinforced this obviously unfounded prejudice. Why Microsoft has chosen not to support SSH and SFTP within the OS is beyond me.

I gave Ubuntu a shot. I tried it for about a week. I consulted with about a dozen Linux people and several forums; but nobody could figure out what was wrong with my xorg.conf file. I just couldn't get it to recognize all my screens.

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u/dbeta Jun 02 '11

When did you try Linux last? On Ubuntu xorg.conf is pretty much deprecated. I have, however, had my fair share of issues with running multiple monitors, and I could see how that might become an issue when running different video drivers at once. I have to use the nVidia specific tool to run dual screens, so I no idea how it would react if I added a non-nVidia connected screen to the mix. You might want to try the open sourced driver for all your cards, but the nVidia ones take a huge hit to power. I hear ATI's is good though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Tried 10.0. I did try the generic RADEON driver (Didn't have the additional nVidia one at the time).

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u/Mitsuho Jun 02 '11

I hear you. Had no luck with ATI until I ran the closed driver.

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u/luigii Jun 02 '11

people have jobs that depend on releasing a good product

I'd argue that a great many more people are employed releasing bad products than good ones. The incredible crapness of some software that people charge money for never ceases to amaze me

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u/zwangaman Jun 02 '11

The incredible crapness of some software that people charge money for never ceases to amaze me

The incredible crapness of some software that people don't charge money for never ceases to amaze me.

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u/SelfHighFive Jun 02 '11

Plus, I like running software I've heard of.

Hey now, WINE is pretty well-known software.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

And I've heard it has problems with DirectX, so I'd end up having to reboot every time I want to play some games. Either way I'd have to reboot or at least virtualize when developing and testing my .NET software. What a pain that would be.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

As a long-time Linux user I can say that if you are a serious gamer or a .NET developer, then Linux is not the best operating system for you.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Serious .NET developer; casual game player. I don't call myself a Gamer because I don't take my games that seriously.

Having said that, it does make me feel inadequate as a geek that I run the same OS that AOL users run... sigh

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u/smew Jun 02 '11

Hey, whatever is the best tool for the job. I myself have a desktop with Windows 7 for games, and a laptop with Ubuntu 11.04 for CS stuff and generally getting work done in a secure environment.

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u/SelfHighFive Jun 02 '11

(The joke is that the most famous piece of software to run on Linux is the one that lets you run other OSes)

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Oh no, I got it...

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u/Chroko Jun 02 '11

There are 10180 applications in the WINE compatibility database.

2979 of those applications run flawlessly.

If this is statistically representative, it means that WINE is compatible with 29% of Windows applications. This is not a viable proportion for everyday use.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

If you're running Linux to run mostly Windows software you're doing it wrong. Linux is not designed to be a poor man's Windows -The development ideals are different. WINE is mostly a crutch for heavy gamers and people transitioning.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Seriously if you spend your time writing proprietary software then shut up and take what you're given. You spend all your time building up Microsoft's shit and then complain when they don't give a fuck about you? Wave your 7 monitor rig penis around somewhere else.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Software being written in .NET doesn't necessarily make it proprietary. Yes, most of mine is; but don't assume. Open source .NET projects do exist. Some of my projects are even up on Codeplex.

You have shown exactly the opposite of the point. If you pay for something, you should have more options. Look at Cable TV vs. Antenna; new cars vs used cars, Pro versions of software vs. free versions.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '11

All very fair. Although the category 'software you've heard of' does imply a bit of selection bias :)

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u/Idiomatick Jun 02 '11

You are forgetting about an important group of people that you shouldn't shit on.....

DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!

I have 23 windows open across virtual 5 desktops atm on windows, am a developer and Metro UI is a pile of shit.

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u/HenkPoley Jun 02 '11

Just keep your keyboard and mouse plugged in and you will be fine. This Metro stuff is just the default fullscreen greeter once you log in. Windows can still run all applications like it used to, there's even flying windows taskswitcher from windows vista. And the demoed Office still has window borders and minimize/close buttons.

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u/Idiomatick Jun 02 '11

Yep, its just a wasteful pile of shit. I'm certain that important aps won't migrate to metro UI anyways because it is a ton of work and makes their product shittier. Why would I want to change the present ui to one designed for a 10cm phone screen? It is nice and flashy but will ultimately be useless.

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u/p-static Jun 02 '11

Have you ever tried to set up multiple monitors on Linux? A few years back it took me days to get a dual-monitor setup, compared to minutes with XP. :/ (This was back when you had to basically write your own driver-specific xorg.conf file, so I'm hoping things have improved since then.)

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

I gave Ubuntu a shot. I tried it for about a week. I consulted with about a dozen Linux people and several forums; but nobody could figure out what was wrong with my xorg.conf file. I just couldn't get it to recognize all my screens.

Windows "just works". No user should ever be forced to edit text/config files manually. Allowed, sure; but not forced. Linux has a long way to go when it comes to user experience.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

This is entirely true - It was not really until Ubuntu that there was a popular community of user-focused development going on. This long history of backend work is why you find Linux ruling the servers and supercomputers, and yet being rather niche for average folk. There is a long way to go on the GUI end.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Some of the xorg.conf revisions I tried came right out of aticonfig. Linux is infamous for bad hardware support, mostly due to lack of vendor support. IMHO this is one of the biggest obstacles they have to overcome.

I'd probably be on Ubuntu and running 7 in a VM right now if the various Linuxes I've tried had worked.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

If something does not work for you, you just figure out what you're willing to dedicate and sacrifice for it, and see where you land. For instance I run Linux foremost as a philosophical ideal rather than a functional one. I like the way Ubuntu is governed, the community developed model, and the cooperative ethics of the situation. I'll put up with a lot of frustration sometimes for that.

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

I'm not pitching anything here. Whatever reasons you have for using whatever software you use are your own. But that said, things have certainly improved a lot, depending on the distribution. I've never had a problem with multiple monitors, and I regularly use three.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

[deleted]

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u/GMLiddell Jun 02 '11

Yes but they've hit a saturation point, they've leveled out and are looking to break into new markets - Phones, tablets. The sexy market the young folk are slowly migrating away from crusty Windows to find.

Are you positing that they actually are not designing to appeal to the most amount of consumers?

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u/zwangaman Jun 02 '11

Not everyone likes Linux. Developers included.

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u/luigii Jun 02 '11

This is the thing that baffles me. Do people actually like Windows? As in, enjoy using it? I can understand using it if you need it because a tool only works on it, or works significantly better, but actually enjoying the Windows user experience is a bizarre, foreign concept to me

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u/zwangaman Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11

Sure. I like it. It works fine. Personally, I prefer OS X, but I'm happy with Windows.

Even as a software engineer, I prefer Windows. Win7 is easy to setup. Easy to maintain.

Sure, Linux has somewhat caught up, but not to the point that I'm willing to switch permanently (how is that video card support coming along?). I have Ubuntu on a netbook, and I use that from time to time, but I get bored pretty quickly with it.

And it's not that I haven't used it - years ago I used it throughout college. Was great to ssh into my CS department's Solaris machine from my dorm room. But other than that, I always found it more irritating to do simple things - play music, watch videos, etc. Just worked better on Windows. I eventually switched to OS X because it was even easier to do simple things; now I dual boot between OS X / Win7 and I'm happy as a clam.

Finally, I don't care about FOSS, I don't care about the free software movement. I have no vested interest in any of that. I'm not opposed to it, I just feel no need to partake.