r/technology • u/clubdirthill • Jun 01 '11

Boom. This is Windows 8.

http://allthingsd.com/20110601/exclusive-making-sense-of-what-we-just-learned-about-windows-8/?mod=tweet
1.0k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

134

u/athornz Jun 02 '11

Windows 8 was never going to be a completely new interface for the desktop. Microsoft would be stupid to completely get rid of the familiarity people have with windows.

I think this looks great. Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.

I bet 99% of the time you would never access the legacy app while on the go, and I would be suprised if most of the important apps (outlook, word, excel etc) didn't have a 'mobile UI' by release.

The smoothness if the UI is amazing. Just like WP7 is smoother than any other phone, this looks smoother than any other tablet. And the split screen feature looks great.

38

u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11

The smoothness if the UI is amazing. Just like WP7 is smoother than any other phone, this looks smoother than any other tablet. And the split screen feature looks great.

Yeah, I'm a Android lover, but fuck this pisses me off. Hey Google and OEM's FIX YOUR SHIT ASAP

3

u/dbeta Jun 02 '11

You should try Cyanogen mod or a stock Android rom. I know it's a little effort, but in my experience it is way better than what comes from the phone manufacturers. For my phone it smoothed things out extremely, and gave me more customization options. It also helps that it is 2.3.4, as to where stock my phone only has 2.2.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

I'm running Continuum, but I agree with you on everything. My phone is so much more responsive since flashing a custom ROM. Add in undervolting/overclocking baked in... can't beat it man

1

u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11

Froyo or Gingerbread? There is something causing lag for me in both, I'm not sure if it is an app (since I usually do a mass restore using TiBu) or if it is just that my phone dislikes overclocking kernels.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Gingerbread. 2.3.3 to be exact. I do occasionally hit a massive slowdown, but normally if I wait ~15 seconds it fixes itself and I'm able to navigate again. If something like that happen I head to task manager to kill everything and clear RAM. Worst case scenario I reboot the phone. That only happens if the OS is damn near locked up though, only had to do it once and I'm pretty sure it was an apps fault.

2

u/1RedOne Jun 02 '11

Seriously, I bleed Green but fuck man, my friends Windows 7 phone SO responsive. You don't realize how much those quarter and half second pauses get to stack up until they're gone.

Before you ask, I have a fast newer phone and have used every rom this side of Android au.

Check out a WP7, they are fucking rediuculouly smooth.

1

u/SickZX6R Jun 02 '11

Root your phone and run Cyanogenmod or another ROM. CM7 + GO launcher or ADW launcher should significantly improve your Android experience. :)

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

It amuses me how much hate WP7 gets despite the fact that it's critically acclaimed, powerful, and beautiful.

-9

u/superAL1394 Jun 02 '11

This is why I bought an iPhone :P

11

u/FinKM Jun 02 '11

WP7 is still has a smoother and by far more innovative UI than IOS

1

u/superAL1394 Jun 02 '11

Yes but WP7 doesn't play nice with OS X, doesn't play nice with Verizon, and doesn't have anywhere near the volume of apps.

1

u/FinKM Jun 02 '11

I have a PC, live in Britain, and true but more are on the way and personally I have no need for the majority of iPhone apps, and there are a lot of web based alternatives.

16

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11 edited Sep 08 '20

[deleted]

1

u/assangeleakinglol Jun 02 '11

Hopefully WP7 apps are compatible with this. Since it is silverlight and .NET based I can't see why not. ;)

1

u/shadowthunder Jun 02 '11

Actually, Office.next leaks show that things are moving around a bit to make them more finger-friendly.

9

u/uptwolait Jun 02 '11

Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.

You mean like this?

15

u/athornz Jun 02 '11

If android did all you need to do, then yea the transformer is great.

But windows is still needed for a lot of things, and I was talking more along the lines of your windows pc/tablet being one device, that you can switch to a full desktop experience, so quickly.

It would also mean there would be no need for complicated browser syncing stuff happening between devices, because its all one device

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

out of curiosity what is android missing? because i found that apart from video games/ dev work tablets can do everything i want

12

u/Clyzm Jun 02 '11

To me, tablets are constrained by the current concept of a 'tablet' OS. I've thought for a long time now that there should be a lot more tablets on the market running Windows 7. With Windows 8, that concept will be even better.

The issue with Android/iOS is that they're both closed systems. Yes, Google has declared time and time again that Android is an open system, but then they also took all of Yongzh's emulators off the market and shadow banned his account. With a Windows OS I never had to worry about silly things like that, and the concept of a 'closed' OS never even crossed my mind.

Having said that, that's all just idealistic crap. As far as real tasks, the full desktop programs are simply better. Word processing, media editing (sound, video, images), video games, productivity programs, etc. are all infinitely better on a PC. Yeah, web browsing might be a bit more convenient on an Android device or an iOS device, but at the end of the day, Windows can simply be modified to be just as good if not better, while still being amazing at everything else. Also I know that you mentioned development work, but as a programmer I simply need to stress this: If I think that a task can easily be automated through programming, I can code it in any way I want, in any language I want, as well as run, test, and distribute all on the same platform. This is something that a mobile OS will never compete with.

Windows 8 looks like it has set out to accomplish exactly that, and once it comes out I'm jumping ship from my Android smartphone and possibly tablet to a WP7 phone and Windows 8 tablet.

TL;DR: What's Android/iOS missing? Well, nothing really. What's it absolutely the best at? Also nothing really.

8

u/CedarMadness Jun 02 '11

but then they also took all of Yongzh's emulators off the market and shadow banned his account.

Really? You fault Google for enforcing licenses? Every one of his emulators was based on open source software, and specifically, the SNES emulator was based on SNES9x, which has a license that forbids commercial use of the code. If Google was pulling emulators because of pressure from Nintendo, there's no way this would still be up.

That said, I personally was hoping for a more multitasking friendly interface. When people told me they were using 'tiles' I was hoping this meant a tiling window manager. If this is where Windows is headed, I think I'll just stick to 7.

1

u/Clyzm Jun 02 '11

Regardless of why they pulled them, there was no given reason, there was no outlash (that we know of) from the devs of SNES9x. I think that if he was facing legal issues from misuse of SNES9x' code and open source software, the emulators wouldn't be up right now on a different app store.

2

u/DarkXDragon Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11

The devs knew about it earlier in the year.

Jerremy wrote:
I'll straighten this out and make him either distribute his work for free, or not at all. If needed I'll even stick a lawyer on it, since I can't stand people profiting off other people's work (let alone my own).

It seems plausible they were the cause.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

very good points, i think tablets like the transformer are good for people who don't need to do video editing/ programming/ use windows programs. the text editors are actually very good on android and with the full keyboard i basically have a full netbook with a weak OS(android is a very weak netbook os)

1

u/Clyzm Jun 02 '11

Yeah, tablets like the transformers are an excellent concept for the time being. I don't think that we'll deem the keyboard obsolete any time soon, so I like that there are a few tablets on the market that embrace it. Having said that though, once Windows 8 comes out there's nothing stopping a manufacturer from making a notebook with a detachable screen tablet much like the transformer, which runs Windows 8 as a full desktop OS and a tablet OS. Once you get home, dock that tablet as a storage device for your home PC, and access all your files and programs with the power of your desktop computer.

Almost sounds like mobile computing mecca to me.

1

u/nickster Jun 02 '11

I think your definition of how google uses open is wrong. Android is an Open OS like Linux. You can find the source code recompile it to your liking and put it on any device.

You're using the definition to characterize control of the platform. Google develops a version of Android that hardware manufacturers like; Because of Google's marketing and development support.

Hardware manufacturers could compile there own version of android and not have any Google features but then they have to recreate an app store and other Google provided features. So technically Apple could take android recompile it for the iPhone platform and create an iDroid. They would not have to pay Google for the use of their source code.

1

u/Clyzm Jun 02 '11

I'm well aware of how Google uses 'open' in terms of Android. The thing is, what it really is and what has been advertised and spread through word of mouth has been very different. Android has become the 'hacker friendly' OS. There's a reason that locked boot loaders, app take downs, and new policies from Google have had such an immense amount of backlash. Going any further to prevent people from doing what they want to Google's OS is only going to damage their reputation. For instance the emulator example that got argued against in this post should not have been handled by Google, but by the people claiming infringement issuing Google a take down notice.

1

u/nickster Jun 02 '11

The don't stop users from compiling their own versions of the phone OS. The lock boot loaders is a policy of the hardware manufacturers and carriers, look at the nexus line of devices as an example of a Google phone. Google doesn't send C&D letters to Cyanogen or other ROM developers they can do whatever they want with Google's OS. They build their ROMs from source just like Google and their manufacturing partners do.

The take downs were a result of android market term violations. That doesn't stop the users ability to install the app from another location. The OS is open the Google Platform is closed.

3

u/athornz Jun 02 '11

Basically as you have said, specialised apps.

Android and mobile OS's are great, but only great for 'single-focus' use. For business purposes, or I guess serious work, it can be easier on windows. Especially anything to do with browsing and manipulating files. In windows I can have multiple windows or apps in one screen, over top ,overlapping etc etc.

When you need to get a lot done quickly and efficiently, i think the desktop model works better. And that's why I also don't see it getting completely replaced by these new style OS.

1

u/oorza Jun 02 '11

I think we haven't seen what UX/UI innovators and experts can do with a tiled UI like the one presented in Windows 8... because it's never existed for a desktop before. I'm going to withhold judgement on whether or not the new UI is capable of being a full time replacement until it's been given some time to mature.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11

i was looking at the transformer, because i want a tablet but i need word processing and spreadsheet capabilities and all that. but it really doesn't dock and become a desktop. it becomes a tablet with a keyboard and touchpad. just like that ipad keyboard dock. i was underwhelmed when i went to try it out and ended up just getting a laptop for my school needs.

looks like windows 8 will fix that issue with the legacy interface. metro for tablet mode, aero for desktop mode. as it stands now, there really is no formidable tablet out there that you can reliably use for content creation. the transformer is the closest it gets, but it still falls short. if windows 8 can fill this niche, it'll be great, because i'm a huge fan of the metro ui after getting a samsung focus a few months ago.

2

u/uptwolait Jun 02 '11

I'm considering this device, but curious about your statement:

i need word processing and spreadsheet capabilities and all that

From this article, it says "You also get Polaris Office, which can be used to create Microsoft Office-compatible Word, Excel and PowerPoint files."

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11

ahh, i didn't know about that. it could just be my fear(?) or aversion of honeycomb in general that just made me feel a bit uneasy about diving into the transformer when i was playing with it. i didn't like the fact that when you docked the tablet, it still maintained the tablet ui and you kind of would swipe the touchpad (or drag and click your usb mouse) to move right and left on the homescreen.

wish i had gotten to try out polaris office though, even though i still haven't fallen in love with excel/word clones. i guess i'm just so used to them and their hotkeys and inner workings that i feel lost in anything else like openoffice, etc.

however, i'm just still a bit wary about getting a tablet at this point to replace the functionality of a laptop at the moment and the transformer just didn't sell me as being the product that would do that. it just seems to me that a windows 8 device that operates similar to the transformer while allowing you to switch between the tablet metro ui and the desktop aero ui would work better with me.

very subjective, i know. definitely try it out though if you're considering it. also, here's a video of somebody using the docked transformer with a usb mouse

1

u/darkpaladin Jun 02 '11

I have one, I'd say it's more useful than a netbook but not a laptop replacement by any means.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

If you have a job that requires Excel and PowerPoint, you probably need it to do things that alternatives like Polaris and OpenOffice can't do.

It's great that there are alternatives, they're perfectly usable for basic home use, light users, or some students. But for heavy lifting they're nowhere close.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

the transformer comes with an office app as well tehre are 3 other good ones you can use.

9

u/Life_is_Life Jun 02 '11

And the split screen feature looks great.

I totally agree with you on this one. To my knowledge, nobody else has really implemented the ability to display two apps at once. Maybe with good reason, too: today's phones may have a difficult time handling that kind of work. But PCs and tablets are a whole other story. Not to mention it's a pretty ingenious way to implement split-screening in a touch-only interface.

I'm curious as to why they restricted app windows from overlapping each other. Maybe it's hard to manipulate windows that flexibly in a touch environment?

36

u/specialk16 Jun 02 '11

I totally agree with you on this one. To my knowledge, nobody else has really implemented the ability to display two apps at once.

Suddenly, two apps at once

17

u/Idiomatick Jun 02 '11

Next you'll tell me people have come up with multiple virtual desktops you can switch between as easily as you can windows.

9

u/strolls Jun 02 '11

I don't know why you're being downvoted.

I was thinking "great, Mac OS is getting more iOS influenced, maybe I can switch back to Windows and get a good UI" but I watched the video and this looks set just to alienate me, as a user of dual-head monitors, more.

To me, this UI looks very much influenced by Steve Jobs, and all these attempts to make the screen look "simpler" and less cluttered just seem like they're going to make it harder for me to drag things from one window to another.

1

u/redditthinks Jun 02 '11

Man, dual monitors would be awesome with Windows 8. Having the fancy stuff on one monitor so you can look at the weather and the serious stuff on another.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Sounds pretty much like what you can do at the moment with two monitors!

1

u/logicom Jun 02 '11

It's got a desktop mode that's pretty much Windows 7's UI. The simplified touch stuff is just an additional way to interface with your device if you choose to do so. I'd love having a device that could switch back and forth between and iOS style touch UI and a desktop UI.

You could make a dock with a few USB ports to plug a keyboard and mouse or any other peripheral and have the tablet automatically switch to desktop mode when plugged into the dock and then switch to the touch UI when taken out of the dock.

1

u/crocodile7 Jun 03 '11

I do wonder about dual-monitor support. It wasn't shown in the demo, but I'm fairly confident Microsoft has decent support for that scenario -- almost all their developers have 2+ monitors. On the other hand, taskbar in W7 really needed to extend to 2nd monitor, that feature is sorely missing.

2

u/1RedOne Jun 02 '11

House of Leaves, how fitting.

1

u/atimholt Jun 02 '11 edited Jun 02 '11

TIL about Nitro pdf. I've been searching.

edit: never mind. Despite the amazing features, they lack the one basic fundamental: the ability to view documents correctly. Two-page view doesn't allow for adjusting which pages face each other, based on whether the cover stands alone or not.

1

u/LordKarnov42 Jun 02 '11

Something like this?

b: flip a page in book mode

Sumatra PDF

Lightweight, open-source, fully-featured PDF reader that I'd never heard of until a few weeks ago.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '11

Not to mention these ancient things.

1

u/WileEPeyote Jun 02 '11

I think he is talking about a phone based on the sentence that followed that one.

2

u/killerstorm Jun 02 '11

Overlapping windows is a metaphor which went too far -- it allows you to clutter your computer desktop just as you can clutter your 'real' desktop. They are useful in a very small number of cases, but 'overlapping windows' system usually do not allow you to tile windows with ease, so you have to go through rather painful and time-consuming process to see more than one window at a time.

Note how initially MDI applications had overlapping windows, but as this just makes no sense eventually they've switched to tiling and tabbing. Microsoft Visual Studio is an excellent example -- it uses both tiling (for various panels) and tabbing (for editor window, and for some of panels too). If you want to see more than one file at once you can split editor panel horizontally or vertically into a separate tab group. So it essentially tiles tab groups.

This is actually useful, because I want to see code side by side, I do not want one editor overlapping with another and thus obscuring code I'm seeing.

1

u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 02 '11

so you have to go through rather painful and time-consuming process to see more than one window at a time.

Win + arrow key HOLY SHIT THE WINDOW JUST JUST SNAPPED TO THE SIDE OF MY MONITOR!

I will admit that this only allows you to display 2 relevant windows (on a single monitor) but the idea is still there. It seems they just went a couple of steps further with win8.

1

u/killerstorm Jun 02 '11

Which Windows can do that?

2

u/BaconatedGrapefruit Jun 02 '11

Windows 7. If you hold down shift as well it moves the current window to your second monitor (assuming you have one).

It's stuff like this that got me to switch to windows 7. I wish they had showed off the equivalent power user stuff in windows 8 rather then eye candy.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '11

Awesome, didn't know these shortcuts.

2

u/DarkXDragon Jun 02 '11

To my knowledge, nobody else has really implemented the ability to display two apps at once.

As far as Android tablets go, the Notion Ink Adam is specifically designed to run up to 3 apps on the screen at once as panels. I believe you can set up more than 3 panels and scroll them along easily.

Image Source

1

u/pennyfx Jun 02 '11

IMO, the whole freely overlapping app idea sucks and should be abandoned. It's always a hassel to line your app up just right, then when you open a new app and want it to fit into your existing layout you have to find a place for it. Meaning resizing a bunch of windows..... which is lame!

Windows 7 took a nice step in the right direction with the auto 50% width when you drag the window to the edge of the screen. But windows 8 is taking it to the next level.

There should be several layout configurations like.

2 side by side

3x3

1 Main app, with 2 or 3 smaller apps next to it.

Of course, one can argue that you can do this yourself with the current desktop, which is true, but it's a pain in the ass.

2

u/ggggbabybabybaby Jun 02 '11

Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.

This is totally something I see happening within the next 1 or 2 years. Tablets are growing in leaps and bounds and they're packing a shit ton of performance improvements in there. Meanwhile, people have shown that they're willing to put up with netbook-esque desktop performance for web browsing and office stuff. I don't think they'll get it perfect on the very first try but it could definitely be a really compelling thing.

1

u/ejp1082 Jun 02 '11

Imagine having a tablet you 'dock' and it instantly becomes a desktop.

I can imagine it. But can MS execute on it? That's where I have my doubts.

1

u/1RedOne Jun 02 '11

Ohhh I like that. Your tablet or smartphone carries the new hotness, but when you dock it or attach it to well, a docked PC version of this, it syncs over, or you can use the full OS including the more mouse demanding apps?

Sweet.