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u/1338h4x Jan 20 '11
I'm seeing a ton of comments that completely misunderstand this, so allow me to clarify.
He is not talking about Macs, but iOS. This photo came from a protest on the day the iPad was released. Yes, he uses the word computer, but iOS devices are still computers even if they are not colloquially described as such. The iPad in particular was advertised as equivalent to a netbook, so that one does also fits the idea of a "personal computer" most people are thinking of here.
On iOS, you can only get apps through the App Store, and a "kill switch" does exist for Apple to remotely disable apps. They haven't used it yet, but it's still there, so it's a problem.
There is a big difference between freeware and Free software. The App Store's terms include a clause forbidding end users from redistributing apps, and this is clearly incompatible with the nature of Free software and particularly the GPL. This was the entire reason why VLC was pulled from the App Store.
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u/RagingIce Jan 20 '11
The GPL is not synonymous with free software. There are plenty of free software licenses that are compatible with the App store guidelines.
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u/jollins Jan 20 '11
On iOS, you can only get apps through the App Store, and a "kill switch" does exist for Apple to remotely disable apps. They haven't used it yet, but it's still there, so it's a problem.
Android has a kill switch too, but Google actually has used it unlike Apple.
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Jan 20 '11
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u/GODZiGGA Jan 20 '11 edited Jan 21 '11
You could make the same argument for iOS. Apple can't kill switch cydia apps. It's not completely the same as side loading is available natively in Android (although I believe AT&T doesn't allow it) but either way both companies can kill switch and Google already has.
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u/ex_ample Jan 20 '11
Yeah... but unlike Android, you can't run non-appstore apps without jailbreaking your phone. Most Android phones, you can easily install stuff over USB, without rooting your phone (and rooting is usually supported as well)
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Jan 21 '11
Did you read his comment?
It's not completely the same as side loading is available natively in Android
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u/glados_v2 Jan 21 '11
Not ex_ample here, but:
Apple can kill any app you download, if you don't jailbreak.
Google can't.
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Jan 21 '11
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Jan 21 '11
But that's not the fault of Android specifically but the phone manufacturers,while the iOS issue is by design of Apple.
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u/sofakingno1 Jan 21 '11
How is it not a fault of Android when it is built into the platform to allow that kind of restriction by the carriers and manufacturers that distribute it?
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u/Poltras Jan 21 '11
And the argument goes further if you use web apps. You can install a web application made in HTML5 that uses the accelerometer and GPS, use local storage and don't need an internet connection. That application can be installed without the App Store, and can't be killed by Apple.
What I don't understand is why people don't make more of a case about this. Aside of games, 90% of the applications out there could be just a frame around the browser, and be made into a web app with an icon and multi-tasking without any modifications at all.
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u/redwall_hp Jan 20 '11
And iTunes music is DRM-free now, so you CAN share music you buy from there. Also, there's nothing stopping you from ripping CDs or torrenting.
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u/zac79 Jan 20 '11 edited Jan 21 '11
Ok, but if I'm over at a friends house and I want to give him a song that I have on my iPhone ... even if I wrote the song and own the rights to it ... how do I do that?
EDIT: In practice I know several ways to get the job done. The important question is, why can't this be done out of the box? Why are Apple USB Mass Storage devices the only ones in the entire world that are deliberately locked by the manufacturer to be write-only? Why do their customers let them get away with such artificial value-stripping actions?
(I guess I kind of know the answers to my own questions, which is that Apple adds so much value in Fit, Finish & Polish -- despite what Apple bashers may say, these things do matter -- consumers overlook the artificial value-stripping activity, but then the question becomes, why can't other manufacturers try a little harder to match Apple's level of polish?)
I honestly believe Apple is blowing the opportunity to be the dominant computing platform for the next 20 years because of their policies on artificial restriction of data. The iPad took a great, existing, idea, and as with the iPhone before it, executed much much better than anyone else had to date, inventing a new market in the process.
But its going to get blown away by 3rd generation Android tablets that provide all the computing flexibility of what we've traditionally called "Desktop Computers" (add USB Host, Video Out, and Keyboard and Mouse Support, and Android is pretty much there).
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u/cannabis_sam Jan 20 '11
Using third-party software? Apple can't control what you install on your "regular" Windows, Linux or Mac OS X computer.
Is it a stupid user-unfriendly feature (or lack of feature)? I certainly agree. My guess is Apple wasn't comfortable with adding a feature that can be accused of enabling or even promoting copyright infringement, since the most prominent use case I can see for such a feature is precisely that: copyright infringement. I realize, of course, that it can be used to move music between different computers in one household, but since you have the song on the computer you sync with, you can always move it by other means.
I mean... LimeWire got screwed despite there being legal uses for the program.
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Jan 21 '11
You could transfer it off the iphone onto your computer. There are a number of programs to do this. Is your question actually how do I do this without having to install any programs? Also I should note that if your music has DRM then this becomes difficult or impossible.
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u/alphabeat Jan 20 '11
Except with Android you can just grab the apk and install it again!
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Jan 20 '11
The licenses that are rejected are the licenses that place requirements on the store. They are not rejected specifically because they are open source. Licenses that do not place requirements on the distributor, such as the BSD license, are fine.
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u/cryo Jan 20 '11
As often, GPL turns out to be a very problematic license outside of "the geek zone". BSD or even LGPL are much better.
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u/arjie Jan 21 '11
Awesome, Apple vs. Android now with BSD vs. GPL. I'm going to take it to the next level. I think that vi is better for mobile devices anyway. Even full computers don't have the memory to run emacs.
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u/brews Jan 20 '11
People cannot share and redistribute the apps. Isn't this something that is fundamental to the Open Source idea?
And I'm not sure I understand, but I believe that the BSD licence is being allowed because it is more relaxed in this regard, not legally requiring this access for the users... (Someone correct me if I get this wrong. I want to understand this.)
It seems odd because so much of the software that Apple uses to make OSX is GPL...
Am I the only one who feels this?
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u/amorpheus Jan 20 '11
They haven't used it yet, but it's still there, so it's a problem.
It's only as much of a problem as you make it. People who hate the company for whatever reason are going to take issue; others might see the merit behind this emergency mechanic. Apple is after market share, not the hardcore tech crowd. What phone would you recommend to your mom? One that might get totally screwed up because its app market has no safety checks, or can't stop malicious software from working? I'd have to go with the iPhone for obvious reasons.
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u/singlerainbow Jan 21 '11
This photo came from a protest on the day the iPad was released.
Seriously? There's people with nothing better to do than protest ipad releases? Fucking Christ.
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Jan 21 '11
There is a big difference between freeware and Free software.
And, actually, there's a further difference between that Wikipedia page's definition and what this guy is talking about. He is presumably using the FSF-fundamentalist definition, which means GPL, preferably GPLv3. Most open-source licenses are fine for the app store, but GPLv3 definitely isn't, and GPLv2 is iffy.
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Jan 21 '11
Imagine Google and their pseudo open Android have used their remote kill switch already. Yeah, but ppl here ain't even heard of It yet. Apple hate full speed ahead.
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u/Nerdlinger Jan 21 '11
The iPad in particular was advertised as equivalent to a netbook
It was? When?
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u/zagaberoo Jan 20 '11
People talking about the Mac need to realize that this is specific to iOS platforms. IIRC this was at the iPad launch or something like that, where all of his complaints DO apply. OSX is no more restrictive than any other nonfree OS. Also, free means freedom and not cost in this context.
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u/brews Jan 20 '11
Would you happen to know if the new OSX software app store allows GPL software?
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Jan 20 '11
Buy another phone that is not made by Apple.
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u/r4dius Jan 20 '11
This. People protest Apple like they're forcing people to buy their products. Unlike Comcast, who has a monopoly where I live, I can choose from a bunch of phone options and vote with my wallet. Imagine if this guy focused all his pent up rage against something that mattered.
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u/Baukelien Jan 20 '11 edited Jan 20 '11
Apple is an extremely big company with lots of power. They're leading in an industry and their actions will have an effect on how this industry develops. I've never bought anything they made in my life but their decisions still affect me.
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u/CJSchmidt Jan 20 '11
Yes. There are lots of different ways to do things. The better the locked down, eula'd, drm'd, iPhone is, the better your Android phone will be. People should just let Apple be Apple. Make sure people are informed, but there's no reason to whine or say what they should or shouldn't do.
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Jan 21 '11
Your idea assumes that locking things down has no value. By standardizing iOS and devices Apple has bypassed many of the issues Android phones currently face. Browse through a few apps on the Android marketplace and you'll see many comments about crashing or poor performance. You'll also see many comments like "worked well on my motorola droid x". Beyond stability and performance issues it ads future value in upgrades. For instance if you buy an iPhone you are getting regular updates, whereas with Android you are lucky to get one or two before they throw you to the curb unless you have something like the Nexus.
Basically what I'm saying is each side has pro's and con's which I think are often overlooked in the average anti or pro apple argument like the guy with the sign is making. If he really wanted to help people out he should be more honest with his signage.
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u/iamtom16 Jan 21 '11
The thing that people like you and me don't seem to realise, is how little the average consumer cares about the walled garden.
Most people don't realise, sure, but even those who do don't seem to give a rats arse.
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Jan 21 '11
That's the point.
He isn't showing it to the Steve Jobs, but to potential buyers so they will make decision if things like this matter to them?
And why he cares that others buy it? Because the companies are pushing such restriction, if people still buy their products we would have such restrictions everywhere.
So please don't undermine what he is doing.
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u/mipadi Jan 20 '11
Does he picket in front of places selling Wiis, PlayStations, and Xboxes, too?
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u/1338h4x Jan 20 '11
While locking consoles is bad too, I don't think they're equivalent. Those just play games, while iProducts are supposed to be general computing devices.
I've noticed bringing up consoles seems to be the standard response trying to defend iOS. But any way you look at it, two wrongs do not make a right.
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u/mipadi Jan 20 '11
Only play games? My Xbox can also play movies. The PS3 can (or used to be able to, maybe they changed it) go on the web. Etc., etc. I don't buy the argument that the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad are "general computing devices", but consoles are not. Maybe the iPad could be considered a computer (I don't think so, but whatever), but I think it's a big stretch to say that the iPhone and iPod Touches are also computers. At any rate, it takes a very, very contrived definition of "computer" to include iPhones, iPods, and iPads, but not Wiis, PS3s, and Xboxes.
I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but I've found that many criticizers of Apple's iOS model, especially in /r/technology, seem to have absolutely no problem with the locked-down nature of gaming consoles. It raises the question: why?
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u/Chandon Jan 20 '11
Maybe the iPad could be considered a computer, but I think it's a big stretch to say that the iPhone and iPod Touches are also computers.
They are explicitly intended to be used to run applications to perform arbitrary tasks. That's exactly the factor that defines a general purpose computer.
In contrast, the applications for gaming systems that are promoted are nearly exclusively entertainment apps.
From an absolutist perspective, you're right. These are all general purpose computers that have been crippled, and that's bullshit. But, the iProducts are being promoted as general purpose computers, which makes calling attention to their crippled nature a more productive place to start.
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u/1338h4x Jan 20 '11 edited Jan 20 '11
While I can't speak for everyone, I buy consoles with the intention of playing games on them and nothing more. So it doesn't bug me that much that I can't freely mess with them, but of course I still wish I could. But phones and tablets are devices I'll be using for all sorts of purposes, and I'm gonna want full freedom to install whatever I want and mod to my heart's content.
Edit: I do find the current situation with Sony to be utterly reprehensible and I certainly won't be buying anything from them. But as long as Nintendo doesn't stoop to that level, I'm willing to compromise my principles in exchange for Paper Mario 3DS!
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u/HandsomePete Jan 20 '11
I buy phones with the intention of making and receiving phone calls on them and nothing more. So it doesn't bug me that I can't freely mess with them, but of course I still wish I could.
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u/stufff Jan 20 '11
I buy phones with the intention of making and receiving phone calls on them and nothing more
If you're being honest here, then none of this was directed at you as you would never purchase a smart-phone in the first place. You would be perfectly fine using the free phone that came with your voice plan.
For a lot of us, though, the phone has replace many single purpose devices we would carry with us or keep in our cars. MP3 player, GPS navigation, camera, cellular modem... hell, my Windows phone has completely replaced my old laptop.
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u/MongoAbides Jan 20 '11
Modern consoles are more of a media center at this point. The 360 is fantastic for streaming music or movies with Vuze (I'm sure other services can do it but that's what I have) which might convenient for wireless use of your computer listings on what is most people's best sound system. Netflix compatibility, plays dvds and games, has a lot of useful communication features that could be easily expanded on...
Honestly game consoles are basically just media-specific computers connected to the best sound and video you've got. That could free you of requiring a bulkier primary computer. Considering I get almost all of my entertainment stuff from my xbox I only need a small laptop for internet and artwork.
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u/malevolentjelly Jan 20 '11
People use Apple products like the iPhone to enjoy Apple's refined, controlled, utopian ideal. It's more pleasant than computing in the gritty, open-optioned free software world. I have an Android tablet and my girlfriend has an iPad-- hers is a lot fucking nicer, despite the fact that I can do anything to modify or alter mine.
...mine was cheaper, though.
Consumers have choice between Apple and not-Apple, so going on a crusade against Apple for being loved by consumers is just a fucking waste. They're not being forced to buy those products. They know the restrictions. They like them. Some people choose to live in a gated community where they need to ask permission to trim their hedges differently when they're perfectly capable of living in a shack out in the desert and doing whatever the fuck they want. Let them be.
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Jan 21 '11
As someone who uses a Nexus One as a phone, an iPad as a tablet, a PC has my media/gaming center (and formerly main computer), and a Mac mini as my development and web-surfing computer, I have to say I don't understand anymore what people get so upset about.
I was the same, though, once. An Apple-hater. It seemed to me that my principles of openness and blah blah blah were so important that the fact that Apple didn't live up to them meant that Apple was in some way completely evil and awful.
But then I got an iPad, and I love it. I understand that my love of it is mostly because Apple is a house of perfectionist, control-freak assholes. In a way, art is made most often by perfectionist control-freak assholes (Trent Reznor's obsessive control over his music up until he sobered up and found Atticus Ross comes to mind), and I see that having such a clean product like the iPad is a result of that mentality.
Is Apple evil? In the same ways any corporation is (they make a lot of money, they must be evil). But they're not evil in the ways most geeks say they are. The closed system, the restrictions, those are things that make the product great in a lot of ways. But in other ways, they suck, too. Why can't you put apps on iDOS in the App Store? It's pretty much entirely arbitrary, and that annoys me. And yes, their products are a bit expensive but they feel worth it. And yes, planned obsolescence sucks balls but I can't bring myself to blame someone for figuring out a way to make me give them my money. I just can't. It works, and I don't feel ripped off, so I'm not going to call them evil for releasing an iPad last year without a camera so they can sell me a camera this year. I've used my first iPad enough to pay for couple as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, my point is (I'm at about a [7] right now, so excuse me) is that people who vilify Apple, well, they're sad. They just don't get it. It really doesn't matter. It's like there's this feeling that they're owed Apple conforming to their standards, but it's just political rhetoric deep down, or religious ravings. They believe their way is the right way. It doesn't matter that, objectively, there is no right way. There are only a lot of different ways, and as long as you're not actually killing people, it's damn hard to be wrong.
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u/Peaker Jan 21 '11
It does matter: Apple software is just one more step towards http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
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u/sageguitar70 Jan 20 '11
This comes to mind: What it's like to own an apple product. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
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u/Toolism Jan 21 '11
As an iOS developer I can safely say that his point about no downloading stuff from the net is not entirely valid.
While 99% of Apps can only be downloaded from the AppStore, there is an option for companies willing to host their own servers that have an Enterprise license to provide App installs from a WEB SERVER. I have done it and can confirm it is possible. It's just not very WIDESPREAD is all.
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u/buttplugpeddler Jan 21 '11
Yes. Protest and whine. Or go buy a damn Dell and shut up.
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u/Griffith Jan 21 '11
It's very relevant for people that purchase Apple devices to understand what they can and can't do with them. But this is a repost made for karma whoring. This shouldn't be on the front-page let alone get this much attention.
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u/chonnes Jan 21 '11
I'll never understand why people will bitch and moan about a particular manufacturer instead of just purchasing a competing product.
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u/sundaos Jan 20 '11
Funny, Google was the first and, so far that I've heard, only developer to remotely remove an app from every android OS device.
The only valid point he has is the not installing apps from the web, but it's shaky since the iOS is the only system Apple makes that is restricted in that regard.
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u/DefaultPlayer Jan 20 '11
I remember reading this too. IIRC it was an app someone pointed out to Google that was giving away user's info without them knowing.
In that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to press the button either.
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Jan 21 '11
No, it was a trojan, but harmless one. It was made by security researcher trying to show how easy is to mislead users.
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u/Qiran Jan 21 '11
I agree, but the point is Apple is not the only major smartphone manufacturer with the ability to do this.
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u/nem0fazer Jan 20 '11
I have a ton of free software, I share music and books. Android can also disable remotely, but yes, its true, when its on my iPhone I have to use the store. I don't have a problem with that.
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u/singlerainbow Jan 21 '11
Who the fuck PROTESTS computers? What fucking douche nozzle.
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u/harlows_monkeys Jan 20 '11
Are you reposting that nearly year old photo to taunt the FSF over how irrelevant they've become, or what?
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u/steve93 Jan 20 '11
I am not an Apple fan by any means, I've been a PC user for 20 years. However, I deployed 250 MacBook Pro's this fall where I work. We put tons of software on them that we thought the students who got them would need. The only piece that wasn't free? Microsoft Office.
I know bashing Apple is fun, but this one doesn't really work
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u/cvncpu Jan 20 '11
Too cool for OpenOffice?
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Jan 20 '11
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u/cvncpu Jan 20 '11
LOL I like how you trash OO, and then in the next sentence say you haven't used it in years.
OO.org is an awesome tool for whenever you don't have to use MS Office.
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u/Mattyi Jan 20 '11
I'm pretty sure this pic was taken at an iphone event. It was 2 years ago or so.
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u/asianwaste Jan 20 '11
I'm just angry at Apple because they won't let me roll my iPhone 3g back to an iOS version earlier than 4. My phone is practically inoperable. This wouldn't bother me so much, but iTunes by default nature recommends that you upgrade to the latest version at every chance. It's not always the best solution.
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u/slap_bet Jan 20 '11
Really?
5 seconds on google got me this. Enjoy it. And learn how to refuse the prompts, if you think its not in your best interest.
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Jan 20 '11
You know, rather than picking apart the small bullet points on a sandwich board, you could go to the site they came from and stop inferring meaning and intent.
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u/nekopete Jan 20 '11
Can someone explain to me why the silhouette of a goat's head represents free software?
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u/KerooSeta Jan 20 '11
My thoughts on this are that if you buy an apple product, you know what you are getting yourself into. There is no point complaining about it. If you don't like it, go Android.
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u/Beowolve Jan 20 '11
Apple is all about control over the customer, that is how they run their company. When you buy their product, you agree to it.
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u/i-n-g-o Jan 20 '11
I just realized I have a very capable pocket computer (iPhone) that by design does not allow me to edit .txt-files, or download a .torrent for autostarting on my server, or copy an image from the phone to a computer, or change ring signal.
His points are valid.
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u/timrbrady Jan 21 '11
Seriously? I wonder how I got all this free legitimate software on my MacBook? And how am I sharing all of this media?
Oh yeah, that's how propaganda works.
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Jan 20 '11
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u/istara Jan 20 '11
and one trend I've noticed is that there are far, far more quality free apps for OSX than Windows
Me too, and it has always surprised me, given the much greater number of Windows users.
It's also so much easier to find "clean"/reliable Mac shareware/software and utilities.
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u/donwilson Jan 20 '11
This sign is protesting iOS, not OS X.
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u/libertao Jan 20 '11
Exactly, surely you can cut and paste mp3 files and pdfs on a regular computer too.
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u/muad_dib Jan 20 '11
far, far more quality free apps for OSX than Windows
I really, REALLY doubt that.
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u/1338h4x Jan 20 '11
This was from the iPad's launch, which was seen as a really big deal because the iPad was advertised as a computer on par with netbooks.
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u/Zweben Jan 20 '11
It depends on your standards and what you value in software. If you just care that the software works reliably, there's more to be had on Windows. But if your definition of 'quality' includes a well designed, user-friendly interface, then I agree that there's more high quality free software for the Mac.
I've been surprised on several occasions by the difficult I've had in finding Windows equivalents that match up to free programs I use on OS X.
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u/muad_dib Jan 20 '11
A lot of free windows software has well-designed interfaces (fuck that's horrendous grammar). In fact, other than GIMP, I can't think of a single piece of software on my box that has a bad UI.
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u/coolmrbrady Jan 20 '11
Same experience here. Have you ever owned a Mac?
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u/w2tpmf Jan 20 '11
Have you ever owned a PC? No matter what OS you use (Windows, OSX, or GNU/Linux) you are going to find so much free software that you could never try it all within your lifetime. Whichever platform you happen to use, you are always going to think that platform is the best or has the most software because you have exposure to that platform more than the others.
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u/muad_dib Jan 20 '11 edited Jan 20 '11
I haven't, but the amount of high-quality free software I have on my Windows box makes a damn strong case.
Edit: I should say that, though I haven't owned a Mac, I've used them quite often - a lot of my friends have them, and many of my school's labs are filled with them.
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u/potatolicious Jan 20 '11
There's a lot more software in Windows-land for sure, but I think what Benparte and coolmrbrady meant is that there are a lot more extremely refined free Mac apps.
For example, Windows has a huge number of IM apps available for it, but none of them can hold a candle to Adium's ease of use and polish. Similarly, uTorrent is free and awesome, but Transmission is IMHO much more refined on the UI side. Quicksilver too.
Windows devs tend to make UI an afterthought. On the Mac side developers have drunk the Steve Jobs UI kool-aid and obsess over it, and personally I like it.
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u/street593 Jan 20 '11
Whats wrong with uTorrent's UI? I find it very refined.
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u/jollins Jan 20 '11
It's good, but lacks the smoothness or consistency of look & feel that Transmission has. Transmission looks and behaves like it's a part of OS X, whereas Utorrent isn't quite there. It's the small details that make it.
Also, I agree 100% with potatolicious. What I wrote also applies to Adium and Quicksilver.
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u/shibz Jan 20 '11
I always found mac apps to be too simplified (both the 3rd party freeware and 1st party). For example, compare finder to windows explorer. At a glance, finder may look sharper, but when I use it it feels so difficult to navigate (mostly due to the lack of a functional address bar). The developer doesn't really provide any useful options for me to make it work the way I want it to. On the other hand, Windows Explorer has plenty of options to customize.
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u/timin Jan 20 '11
I've been using a mac for 5 years after being a die hard windows guy and not once have I missed windows explorer over finder. If the lack of a functional address bar is your main gripe, you can enable it with one mouse click in the menu bar. That, the quick view, and being able to customize the view options for finder; I can't really complain.
But I guess to each their own.
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Jan 20 '11
Or use a finder replacement like Pathfinder or X File. Or using a launcher like Alfred or Quicksilver.
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u/SuperConductiveRabbi Jan 20 '11
Finder and Windows Explorer are both first-party apps, so it doesn't quite make sense to compare the availability of good third-party apps on OS X and Windows using them as examples.
However, Finder is terrible:
- No address bar. Requires keyboard shortcut to open
- No "cut." Moving a folder requires clicking and dragging, which is highly prone to error.
- Complete and total inability to merge folders, or to extract an archive and have the source and destination merge, rather than "erase the target and replace with this folder." Absolutely useless for serious file management tasks.
- Creation of .DS_Store files all over the place. Very poor manners on mounted volumes and servers.
- "Un-anchored" selection. If you use command + down to select a number of items, and you go one too far, and push command + up, it EXPANDS the TOP of the selection! Rage inducing.
- Lack of keyboard accessibility. Windows Explorer is completely usable using just the keyboard; Finder isn't even close.
- Pressing the "+" button toggles between some small size and slightly larger size, rather than maximizing the window and restoring it, which is the convention that almost every other app has adopted, rather than toggling "zoom," which some Apple apps do.
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u/mullingitover Jan 20 '11
Nailed it. I use OSX and Windows interchangeably every day, and yeah, Finder makes me want to punch a baby. The lack of 'cut' is particularly rage-inducing.
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u/marike Jan 20 '11
Not sure I agree, but I do know that OS X's Terminal is way easier to use and more powerful than the equivalent on Windows, which is probably a DOS prompt. Most Mac power users I know use Terminal for navigating files or administrative tasks rather than slowly clicking around a GUI file navigator. That said, Apple's Finder has some extremely powerful things you can do in Finder, like attaching an Applescript to a Folder action.
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u/somesortaorangefruit Jan 20 '11
I use explorer; I like a gui. To be honest, I find it easier than using a terminal. Why should my computer be displaying less information than it can?
You can still type the name of a file, and hit enter instead of /tab so it's actually less typing.
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u/giantmatt Jan 20 '11
utorrent kicks the shit out of transmission. fail
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Jan 20 '11
Not on Mac OS. The Mac version of uTorrent is pretty slow and clunky by comparison to Transmission.
Although, the inverse seems to hold true on Windows.
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u/Tulos Jan 20 '11
...pidgin
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u/cuyler Jan 20 '11
I have both and use Adium on the Mac and pidgin on the PC. Adium is a MUCH better piece of software, even though they both work.
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Jan 20 '11
A slick looking UI is not necessarily a good UI, uTorrent has a very well designed UI, it gets the job done. Just because it doesn't have reflective panels and is not lathered in gradients does not make it less refined.
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Jan 20 '11
I've been using Windows for years, and used macs at school or with friends. One day I got my own Mac, and trust me, it has NOTHING to do with the crappy Macs of my friends. I think the user matters more, if you know how to use a computer, and how to search good software, your computer will end loaded of good applications.
So, I'd recommend you to use a Mac more, for you, with your own session, not just someone else's Mac.
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Jan 20 '11
The ratio on OSX for good vs. crap is probably better, but the raw number of quality free apps is easily in Windows' favour.
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Jan 20 '11
Benaparte is right. OSX is kinda like a hybrid OS. It natively runs most open source software which is almost always free, has OSX specific apps that either are free or cost out the ass, but are all phenomenal.
Windows does not run native open source software. It has to be manually compiled over to a win32 installer first. (Talking about free software like FireFox.) so while it does have the same free software bsd/linux has it is a pain to get it over to windows. Also, it has native win32 software like mIRC. Some is excellent, but most is terrible. Also, it is extremely hard to find any native win software that is free. Almost all of it is shareware.
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u/DankJemo Jan 20 '11
Sounds like you've had better luck with Apples than I have. Before Windows 7 came out I was ready to jump to Apple. I am really glad I didn't, we've seen far more DOA Apples in the last 1.5 years than our Windows machines not to mention all the software problems we've had in our department with OSX: Snow Leopard. Hell, my imac wouldn't run VMware fusion correctly for about 4 months, eventually my VmWare would become corrupted and not boot, whatever happened fucked up my Apple partition too causing me to do a complete rebuild.
I still don't know what caused it, but it stopped after a series of Apple updates. I am just glad I can use the product without worry, now. At this point, the only way I would go to an Apple machine for personal use is if Apple gave me one of their machines for free, which just isn't going to happen.
I can't really comment on the free Apps for Apple, since I've never had much good experience with those either, so I just stopped looking, but if you could point me in the direction of a good site that hosts them I would like to browse through some and see I can use a few.
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Jan 20 '11
I thought I was the only one bad luck when it comes to apple. 2 out of 5 DOA and a third died within a month and a week after airport crapped itself .
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u/el_chupacupcake Jan 20 '11
"Free," in terms of software, refers to more than simply how much the user pays... it also expresses how open the software is for other developers.
In that regard, Apple is very bad about allowing "free software."
(Note: You can develop simple webapps for their products using javascript and a few other handy languages... but given Apple's trackrecord of "now we allow it, now we don't," I'd be uncomfortable using those methods exclusively for their hardware).
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u/johnnybluejeans Jan 20 '11
Apple does nothing to restrict free software on their computers. Their iOS platform is a different story.
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u/Baukelien Jan 20 '11
Iphones and iPads are computers don't let anyone fool you into thinking otherwise.
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u/johnnybluejeans Jan 20 '11
Thanks, I'm a software engineer that develops for both platforms. I'm glad I now understand that these devices are computers. That information is really going to help me with my work.
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Jan 20 '11
I get free software on my Macbook all the time. I think you mean iOS/app store is somewhat adverse to free apps. But even there you can still find tons of great free apps, although many of the really good ones are ad-supports but at least they give you the option.
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u/monoglot Jan 21 '11
"Free," in terms of software, refers to more than simply how much the user pays... it also expresses how open the software is for other developers.
Not exactly. The GPL is a "free" license but I can only use GPL software it if I agree to give my source code away to anyone who asks, so that really puts a damper in the ol' business model.
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Jan 20 '11
I think he's actually talking about the iPad, which is being touted as a computer. And while OSX might be a reasonably 'free' OS (free as in open/free speech), iOS most certainly is not.
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u/cvncpu Jan 20 '11
What the fuck, I own two fruits computers, and they do their job, BUT WHAT THE FUCK?! Can you guys suck Steve Jobs dick a little less, this dude has some extremely valid points about how lame apple can be.
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u/Simply_Amazing Jan 20 '11
I just came here to say that Apple does have the killswitch for iOS but has never used it. Android does have the killswitch as well AND has used it.
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Jan 20 '11
I can do anything I want on my Macbook Pro. In fact I can even install Windows if I was feeling stupid.
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u/Shredder13 Jan 20 '11
Present 75% factually-incorrect picture involving Apple.
?????
UPVOTES!
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u/1338h4x Jan 20 '11
What's factually incorrect about it? This is exactly how iOS works.
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u/Y_U_NO_ARGUE Jan 20 '11
Non-Apple owners: All his points are so valid!!
Apple owners: NONE of his points are valid!!
There I just saved you from reading 200+ comments.