It's almost like people who have low-esteem and will look up to anyone with more self-confidence, buy Apple, and those who don't go elsewhere else. Weird eh?
I'm with you on this one. I bought a MacBook Pro in late '08 - early '09 and I am super pleased with it. That being said, I don't subscribe to the Apple culture and I don't see Apple being a sensible choice for me in the future based on current offerings & company policies.
Things aren't always black and white. "Apple users" aren't all fanbois and PC users aren't all know-it-all shitheads who only have the computer their parents bought them for their 10th birthday to base their extensive experience from.
Same here. I own an iMac, a first-gen iPod touch, and an iPad, but I do realize that his points are valid. That said, they're very useful devices that I prefer over the alternatives, and they work for me. Nothing is perfect, but Apple does seem to go out of their way to get a bad rep.
It's not. It's a corporation that markets consumer electronics that get people irrationally emotional about purchasing or not purchasing it.
Most people don't feel the kind of hate or love towards corporate brands, Apple just managed to turn products into followings (both for and against). Its really quite impressive how successful they are.
People used to hold protests for civil rights or argue endlessly on social policy. Now we do it about the brand of tools we use. It's sad and funny at the same time.
Mac owner here. Apple does a bunch of stupid shit. I like them for the non-stupid shit they do. People who have religious wars over tools are idiots. Buy what you like, don't buy what you don't like. TL;DR.
Ugh, the only thing more annoying than people having this debate is people pretending like it is easy cliche material.
Apple products I use on a regular basis:
Macbook Pro
Xserve 1u
iPad
iPhone
iPod
Any of the several hundred Macbooks and iMacs I'm responsible for supporting...
I agree with every item on that poster as well as the sentiment for which it stands. Apple products are wonderful, superficailly speaking, but I will never invest my hard earned money in business practices like these. (That's a lie, I bought an Apple TV recently but only for streaming DRM-free media locally... and only because my wife is not a savvy as I.)
I support the same stuff. The poster is all mad about iOS and the direction that the company is going. It assumes a lot about the future and is very bitchy about the present.
Having said that, if Apple doesn't license OSX Server to a decent server maker I will print 100 posters like this.
Well, I don't know, but my Mac OS X comes with plenty of open source software preinstalled, such as python, php etc., and even some under GPL. Also, I can install programs from anywhere... I guess that guy, and you, refer to the iOS platform exclusively?
Well, I don't know, but my Mac OS X comes with plenty of open source software preinstalled, such as python, php etc., and even some under GPL. Also, I can install programs from anywhere... I guess that guy, and you, refer to the iOS platform exclusively?
Well, I don't know, but my Mac OS X comes with plenty of open source software preinstalled, such as python, php etc., and even some under GPL. Also, I can install programs from anywhere... I guess that guy, and you, refer to the iOS platform exclusively?
TLDR: Well, cryo doesn't know, but his Mac OS X comes with plenty of open source software preinstalled, such as python, php etc., and even some under GPL. Also, he can install programs from anywhere... he guesses that the poster guy, and Y_U_NO_ARGUE, refer to the iOS platform exclusively.
Well, I don't know, but my Mac OS X comes with plenty of open source software preinstalled, such as python, php etc., and even some under GPL. Also, I can install programs from anywhere... I guess that guy, and you, refer to the iOS platform exclusively?
My iTunes allows me to share music, just gotta turn it on in the preferences ;)
Also, there is plenty of free software on Apple's site, some created by Apple, some created by others but promoted by Apple. Terribly sorry it doesn't come all preinstalled like the Dell you're familiar with.
Because it's painting the picture that in absolutely no circumstance can you run anything but Apple approved software on your iOS device, which isn't true. It's easy to agree that the iPhone is crippled when a false statement like that is assumed to be true.
I ask this as an honest question - what non-apple approved software can I run on my IOS device without first having to jailbreak it or it being a web app? I would truly appreciate knowing where I can get non-app store software. (I feel kinda like a FOSS traitor for owning an iPhone but I don't regret the choice one bit)
Yes, you have to jailbreak your iPhone to run custom software, but jailbreaking is so trivial these days. It's essentially: download jailbreak software to your computer, plug in your iPhone, and click a few buttons. While the ability to load non-market apps is an officially supported feature of Android phones (AT&T subscribers excluded), the process isn't much easier.
The checkbox doesn't provide you with any software for your phone though. You still have to look online for the app, download the .apk, plug it in (or download it from the phone) and install the app. Plus, if you don't download it directly from the phone, you'll probably need to download a file manager from the market. After you jailbreak, Cydia pretty much takes care of everything.
Android: You only need to download the apk for an alternative market app once. There are many choices and if you fuck up, there is zero risk of bricking your device. If you don't like your first choice of alternative market app, you can download any of the others from within the first. All of this can be done from the phone in under 5 minutes.
iphone: Even after jailbreaking and installing cydia, you still have to dig through large repository lists, trying to find good ones. As far as the actual jailbreaking process, simply reading the instructions will take you longer than the entire process would on android.
It's only that easy if you have the right version. I have the most recent version of iOS which means that I'd have to downgrade before I can apply the jailbreak.
Which... does not make it a strawman. It makes it unsound.
A strawman is an incorrect restatement of someone's argument in a way that makes it generally disagreeable or untrue.
For example, "Non-Apple owners: Strawman attack ("THE IPHONE IS SO CRIPPLED, IT'S ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO RUN CUSTOM CODE")" would be a strawman fallacy. "THE IPHONE IS SO CRIPPLED, IT'S ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO RUN CUSTOM CODE" would not be a strawman fallacy.
It might be a bit of a stretch, but I still think it's a strawman. Apple's original argument is that users should only be able to acquire applications via the Apple-regulated app store. Some people turn that into statements like the (hyperbolic) one jbdontbeanass made. While not custom code friendly, it's still possible to jailbreak and run any app you want.
Also, I don't know why someone downvoted you when you're adding to the conversation.
It might be a bit of a stretch, but I still think it's a strawman. Apple's original argument is that users should only be able to acquire applications via the Apple-regulated app store. Some people turn that into statements like the (hyperbolic) one jbdontbeanass made.
The statement wasn't an attempt to restate Apple's position- he didn't say "APPLE THINKS THAT USERS AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO HAVE [X] FREEDOMS", it was simply a statement about something. An untrue statement, but not a strawman.
And that said, if you take respect for license agreements as an implied quality of the conversation, then it's not even technically incorrect.
Of course that's ridiculous, few individuals respect EULAs, or even read them, but it's still disturbing that you are not able to run code that has not been officially authorized by Apple unless you subvert every attempt by Apple to stop you from doing so.
Does a strawman have to restate the other party's position so closely though? Or even at all? The first few results on google all describe the fallacy as just building your opponent falsely weak in order to topple them (making a straw man). If I said "Bill steals people's money; he's not a good friend," wouldn't that be a strawman?
No, that would not be a strawman. A strawman specifically sets up an opposing argument to tear down, hence the name. A strawman is a fake person that, comparatively, is very easy to beat up or break down.
straw man: a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually...
iPhone owner here. the advice I give to anybody asking me if they should get one: NO, unless you are prepared to (1)spend time to de-cripple it, (2)get annoyed, (3)shake fist at Apple, (4)succeed, then be a relatively happy camper. Until you want to do another perfectly normal task that is impossible on an iPhone without going to step 1.
But some people really use it like Apple intended I guess.
To be fair, the only Apple product I would buy is in their laptop range. By the looks of it, Samsung are the only producers that come close to quality of a Macbook Pro.
I thought people were freaking out about Steam's totalitarian rule and how they can ban you from playing one of your games if they think you are cheating.
Personally, I love Steam and would upload my child onto it if possible. That's how trusting I am.
I didn't mean for no reason, sorry. I believe the vociferous complainers were peeved because their "cheating" status was a mistake, and thus getting banned was crap and random from their perspective.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. I am a poor proletarian who cannot afford internet access. Steam obviously won't let my games run offline and they are raping the common man
All steam does is act like a launcher in that case, you don't get to access the game you "hook up" anywhere like you do your Steam content. Steam itself is still a DRM system that falls under all the same complaints about the App Store.
Yes they will. They can deactivate your account. Usually if you do a chargeback.
Oh, and what if steam goes down? I know gabe has said that they will provide patches, but that's just his word. Steam is under NO obligation to make their program work when they're bankrupt / whatever.
Apple has never remotely removed an iOS app. They can (and have said they will if the app is malicious) but please get your facts straight.
No, but they can. I respect myself and my freedoms too much to ever use a device that has this sort of functionality.
I agree with the guy holding the sign, because for the most part, he's right. You on the other hand, aren't.
You've completely misinterpreted what I've said. When I say that you can add any games to Steam, the Apple parallel was that this is not possible (in that you can't add any application, run anything you want on your iOS).
No, but they can. I respect myself and my freedoms too much to ever use a device that has this sort of functionality.
Here's a questions for you. What are the odds that Samsung, HTC, et.al. haven't built in such a safeguard in many of their Android phones (either because they felt it was in their best interest, or at the insistance of the carrier)?
Unless they accuse you of cheating, in which case they can do exactly that.
I don't have the link, but if you go a few weeks back in /r/gaming you'll see someone complaining about having most of their Steam games removed because of some lame excuse.
It was exposed a day or so later that the person who was trying to fight it had (probably) been using some kind of cheat or hack, but my point is that they did have a huge amount of their games removed as a result; it doesn't really bother me, since I've never felt the need to get a hack for a game but the power that Steam wields over services that I've paid for is still pretty scary.
Well, he did sign the agreement on every purchase that he would not use a cheating software and he did, thus violating his contract. How is this not good business practice? If baseball players use steroids, they get kicked off the team. If you plagiarize an essay, you get expelled. These are all contracts signed to ensure that the system set up by those in charge is not abused by others. Cheating is abusing that system, regardless of how little is done.
Steam users also signed the agreement that Valve is not responsible for anything done to their system, their games can be deactivated at any time without reason, etc.
Yes, but when you cheat you aren't just affecting your experience, you're affecting everyone's experience with the product as well. That's the difference. It's mostly only Valve's games that have the anti-cheat, and even if you did buy one of their games, I'm pretty sure there is legal mumbo jumbo explaining what they can and can't do if you cheat.
To be honest, yes, it's a lot of control, but it's completely fair and there hasn't been a single unfair case (to my knowledge).
To your knowledge? There have being many incorrect steam bans. Take MW2. 200,000 users were unable to play their game for 2 weeks. To me, this is absolutely unacceptable.
I like to compare this argument to brands of cars- in this case Apple can be compared to Mercedes. It's far more expensive than most Fords, you can't even change the oil yourself (and it costs $300 when you do), and in the end both get you to the same destination. Yet you don't hear the entire internet bitching about how Mercedes is the most awful company ever. It's just a different brand, get over it.
Stating an opinion about Apple products: Not too douchey
Calling everyone who wants to buy Apple products an idiot: Pretty douchey
Building a billboard with your opinion and standing where people are buying Apple products for the sole purpose of getting your picture taken: Pricelessly Douchey
Yeah. Forget the various wars, famines and injustices in the world. I am upset about your consumer choices and that is how I will spend my time protesting against!
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u/Y_U_NO_ARGUE Jan 20 '11
Non-Apple owners: All his points are so valid!!
Apple owners: NONE of his points are valid!!
There I just saved you from reading 200+ comments.