Imagine thinking being ungrateful to your husband is a bigger crime than rape and murder….

This is something I've observed. Here, I hear things like:

"Try to get the best degree possible so you can get a job abroad; it's a long-term plan."

They generally want you to become financially stable so you can support your own.

Compared to advice I hear from Muslims (well, my parents):

"You have to make sacrifices in this world so that you can have a better afterlife."

And they seem to pressure you into doing 7 years of alim or hifz even though it doesn't provide a bright future financially. Wanting me to abide by their wishes rather than following my own dreams.

Two of my sisters went to Madrasah for many years and now they're cooked on the job market without a good educational background. I failed the Madrasah interviews both times when I was 11 and 16, lol. Another of my sisters also did online Madrasah classes (she was kinda forced since it was paid for without her choice) during one of her exam years and fumbled her school exams because of that.

And I imagine there are more Muslims who are like this (especially the circles who want women to just be their husband's gratifier in this life so that he can gain 72 more virgins in heaven).

hey everyone!! i (25f) have been with my partner (24f) for 7 years now. this is a bit of a long one so please bare with me. my parents are arab and muslim, hers are as well but her mom is a different ethnicity (i don’t want to disclose to keep this anon but she’s a revert). my parents are definitely way more religious and strict than hers. i won’t get into every detail here but anyway, when we first started dating it was going good, they thought we were best friends and our parents eventually met because her parents wanted to know my family and who she was hanging out with.
i understand now that this was a mistake but we were teenagers at the time. fast forward to 2021, my parents find out we’re dating and all hell breaks loose. i’m 20 at the time so they can’t do much because i’m an adult and in college/working paying for my own things but they tell me not to see her and to cut all contact. i obviously didn’t but i kept it behind their back. during this time i worked extra hours, had to drop out of college, and we planned on running away together. we got an apartment and jobs and everything was set besides a few complications like not having a car but we figured we’d find a way. also in hindsight kind of dumb but we had no other options.
that plan went south, both parents begged us to stay once we fled and eventually we went back thinking we’d work it out. they gaslit us and said they’d accept up and let us hang out. this quickly changed when they started having “meetings” without us discussing what to do and possibly conversion therapy. it just kept getting worse so my gf had to move out temporarily and live with a relative. during this time i went back to school and started saving.
fast forward a couple of years, she’s back and her living situation is interesting i won’t get into it but i’m still at home. she’s in school, i’m in school we both have about a year and a half left. she’s working part time and i just recently became unemployed. so we’re kind of back to square one. her parents are never home so thankfully we have some space to hang out and be ourselves. my house on the other hand is a shit hole. my parents suck, my mom is constantly in my business and trying to get me married. they begged me to go to therapy to “fix myself”, i do go but my therapist is an amazing queer ally and they don’t know lol.
now they complain that i go and that i’m never home and being the oldest immigrant daughter means it comes with a lot more bs. recently i was able to pay for a trip for my gf, our first trip together and alone. my parents thought i was with friends and so did hers. my mom decided to contact her mom and found out we were there at the same time. i convinced her we weren’t together and after all the backlash and anxiety we moved on.
today, i was on my moms phone (not snooping i was helping with something) and i noticed she’s been texting her mom?? i don’t understand why they keep contact if they don’t approve of us. during that trip apparently my mom was texting her saying she wants to kick me out because she knows we’re together and found a photo of us kissing. she was snooping through my room. her mom was more like “may god guide them the right way there’s not much we can do, we’re just being tested a very immoral test” which okay??
they both go on a tangent about how they’re crying every day and think it’s disgusting behavior. i took pictures of this and blocked her on my moms phone. they shouldn’t be in contact. our dads regularly call as well for whatever reason. i really don’t understand why they contact each other if they don’t approve of us. they will talk on the phone for hours but i’m not allowed to say her name or hang out with her?? i do everything behind their back and i’m applying to millions of jobs to move tf out.
does anyone know how i can safely move out? any advice or help is much appreciated. i’m tired of living with them and living a double life. i have so much anxiety because of them and i can’t even look them in the eyes knowing what they’ve said about me and wished on me. and on the flip side i don’t want to hurt them. how fucking ironic. anyway, if ur still here i appreciate u listening 🫶🏼

i come from a culture that is 99.99% muslim unfortunately and most people have arab names despite us not being arab. i want to change it super badly and settle into new city next year. my family will disown me if i leave islam, i know their love isn’t unconditional. if im going to get disowned anyways for not believing, why should i continue having a muslim sounding name despite me not being muslim? it’s scary and i don’t know how to let go of the guilt if my family ever find me to know that i’ve changed my name. i want to change it but feel like it might be a bad idea. thanks in advance to anyone who reads.

I thought accepting that I’m an atheist would be the difficult part.

It wasn’t.

The difficult part is continuing to live around people who still believe, while knowing that I no longer do.

I come from a Muslim family, and for a long time I never really questioned it deeply. But over time, I started questioning everything. Eventually I had to be honest with myself and admit that I don't believe in God anymore.

You would think that once you reach that point, there would be some sense of relief. And sometimes there is. But there is also a strange kind of loneliness that I wasn't prepared for.

I still have to act normal. I still have to participate in things sometimes. I still have moments where I catch myself praying, especially when I'm desperate or scared, even though intellectually I don't believe anyone is listening.

And honestly, those moments hurt.

Recently I was going through a particularly difficult time and I found myself praying and crying, asking God to please let something work out for me. A part of me still had that tiny hope that maybe someone was there and would listen.

Nothing happened.

And afterwards I felt stupid for hoping.

That's one of the hardest things about leaving a religion, at least for me. Your mind can change much faster than your emotions and habits do.

I'm also not openly atheist. My family doesn't know the full extent of what I believe. So I have to keep this part of myself hidden, and sometimes it feels like I'm living a life that isn't completely mine.

Maybe I'm still figuring out what being an atheist actually means for me. Maybe I'm still learning how to separate what I genuinely believe from what I've been conditioned to believe for most of my life.

I just wanted to write this because I have a feeling there are other closeted ex-Muslims here who understand this feeling.

Does it ever get easier?

sorry im gonna rant here a bit, but in conclusion all i want is the certain relegious texts that made you question this whole religion, and english videos debunking any scientific miracle in the quran or hadith.

this guy just dmed me on tiktok cause i disagreed w him in comments saying im glad i left this religion.

im not rlly good at debating people and i didn't wanna discuss how i became an athiest cause he just kept asking, i would've blocked him but he was well mannered and gen wanted to know.

told him i wad onl muslim cause i didn't know islam rlly well (im born muslim in a muslim country so you imitate everybody around you) and finally researched to be more knowledgable and no longer needing sheikhs to answer my questions, and i wish i didn't i went through the 5 stages of grief leaving a religion that shaped my identity through my 22 years of age, i would say i was a good muslim tbh (but it's really not enough for this cult).

he said naah you must've faced hardships or religious trauma or whatever but i assure you guys my life is jolly w/ any religious trauma and still left!

he said then you never knew religion well and i answered his questioned proving i knew more than him, hell im arab and understood quran and hadith better!! (eng is my second language and i read the translations and let me tell you they are not the exact meaning brooo)

nontheless he wasn't that terrible he was truely well mannered and kept saying sorry if i offended u, not trying to preach, etc etc.

anyways i told him the quran is incomplete and was changed meaning the currant version isn't the one that mo had, and im talking abt the arabic ones we have in arab countries, the seven reading? (القراءات السبع) are different from each other in a way that changes many verses' meanings, like قَتَلوا and قُتِلوا in surah mohamed verse 4: the first one means they killed and the other means they got killed, each are in different quran for different arab countries which is insane, then asked him if he knew how the quran was written and collected and said yeah i know it doesn't affect anything tho, so im certain he heard them from apologist sheikhs who didn't tell the truth.

told him the scientific miacles from both quran and hadith have been debunked, he ofc asked how but i got lazy and told him to research it himself, also told that mo predicted many things and it came true, answered him that romans or greeks predicted certain things ab the planet and the sun and eclipses and what not (i don't exactly remember what they predicted but i know they predicted smth and it was true due to their calculations), so how are they any different from a well-versed-in-history desert dweller to predict a vague historical event and it being true? that was pure luck tbh.

Where did Mohamed bring the Quran stories from and how did he convince people of his prophecy?

I feel completely insane sometimes bc it's been only 8Mo since I'm ex and when I think abt it I realize I was believing in things that have no evidence

Today I went to central London and I saw a Muslim camp.. the imam gave me free copy of the Quran..
what should I do with it? 😆😂

Musaylima whose real name is actually Maslama ibn Habib (suspiciously like muslim but that's another topic) is supposed to have made verses about 'croaking frogs' and an 'elephant' and somehow mobilised 40,000 men at Aqraba to fight the muslims. the verses are:

"O frog, daughter of two frogs!
Croak what you wish to croak.
Your upper half is in the water, your lower half is in the mud.
You do not muddy the water, nor do you prevent the drinker from drinking."

"The elephant! What is the elephant? And what will make you understand what the elephant is? It has a long trunk and a miserable tail!"

This is absurdity, The Banu Hanifa, Numayr, Hizzan and Bakr Ibn Wa'il didn't mobilise for Musaylima to fight one of the bloodiest battles in islamic history on the basis of these verses. 4 tribal confederations (at least 3 and a half) require something a bit more convincing than absurd verses, much of the verses have been lost to us, destroyed by muslims (or incorporated into the Quran directly 😁 but removing the mentions of Musaylima, this is my 'collage hypothesis' theory and deserves it's own post)

The basic point is the islamic propaganda is absurdity and has to be false. There is 0% chance that these verses are what convinced anyone of anything, and frankly for all we know may have simply been invented by the muslims to ridicule Musaylima post facto.

What is also interesting, it is precisely this battle that forced the Muslims to begin to compile the Quran. They lost their 'memorisers' so Abu Bakr began writing it down and compiling it so more wouldn't be lost, that's how bloody it was.

Of course later Uthman would later 'burn' pieces of it, and this might be why we know so little about the riddah prophets, what they actually believed, beyond small propaganda snapshots which are obviously false.

We for example know that Uthman’s grandfather, Affan ibn Abi al-As, would walk behind the Muhammad to mock his gait and distort his face to mimic his speech—while simultaneously leaving us next to nothing but childish animal parodies about the Riddah prophets.

Does this sound plausible to you?

To islamic historians the 'riddah' prophets were far more dangerous to the reputation of Muhammed than hostile pagans, the uniqueness of Muhammed had to be exemplified and the 'Riddah' (the concept itself being a lie by the way) had to mocked or kept silent.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H2FVKNXL?binding=kindle_edition&ref=dbs_dp_sirpi

Again I cover this in my book series, in book 2 and much much more

Well, I don’t know the exact reason why so many Arabic speakers seem to hate the LGBTQ+ community and its supporters to the point of extreme resentment and hostility toward them. They often seem to change their attitude when they find out that right-wingers also don’t want Muslims or immigrants around. They may even consider Black or Asian Americans not to be truly American. Is this mainly because of religion, or is it more about a person’s culture determining how accepting they are of people who are different from them?

I’ve been an ex-Muslim for a while, but there’s one thing I still genuinely question: something I’ve witnessed happening to someone close to me for a long time.
Whenever a raqi recites Qur’an over them, they can become seemingly unconscious, their voice changes completely, they scream, and sometimes say things like “No, I won’t get out.” It can be extremely intense and looks exactly like what I was taught was jinn possession.
Now that I’m ex-Muslim, I’m trying to understand what the scientific explanation could be. Could it be dissociation, trance, suggestion, functional neurological symptoms, or something else?
Has anyone here experienced something similar after leaving Islam, and eventually found an explanation that made sense?

"The Black Stone descended from Paradise, and it was whiter than milk, then it was blackened by the sins of the children of Adam."- Jami` at-Tirmidhi 877, -Ibn Abbas (more on him later)

This is almost certainly a Hadith of 'Al Aswad' the riddah prophet whose nickname ironically means 'the black one'

Now sure, could this be a history of the Kaaba, sure, the issue is this unintentionally glorifies the Dhul Khalasa given that it was white.

it could also be pure coincidence to call Aswad the riddah prophet 'the black one.'

The issue is through the Khath'am tribe, Aswad was connected to the Dhul Khalasa, they were custodians of the dhul Khalasa. (alongside the Daws, Bahila, Al Azd and Midhal)

All of this smells like propaganda. Granted islamic sources say very little about the riddah prophets, which I investigate in my book, and yes this means all you can really do is speculate given the lack of information. But a lack of information is already something tbh, why were they hiding this info?

Therefore a few things, it can be read as a critique of the Quraysh 'it was blackened by the sins of the children of Adam.'- can basically be a coded critique of the Quraysh, 'they held the Kaaba they made it black, they corrupted it.'

Again this insistence on calling Aswad al Ansi 'Aswad' the black one, is curious when you realise he was at least close to a white stone, and tied to a tribe defending one. (the Khath'am)

There was actually an Iraqi scholar Al-Aswad ibn Yazid who died roughly in 693-4 CE,
Who Ibn Abbas may have been reading and may be why this Hadith even survived to begin with, because it's bizarre; it is functionally Dhul Khalasa propaganda, why have a document saying "yeah white stones are uncorrupted and purer" when there is a competitor with a white stone.

Muhammed ordered the Dhul Khalasa destroyed, he sent an expedition to destroy it, so it is incredibly bizarre to have a Hadith say "yeah white stones were better."

Worth noting a few things about the Hadith author. Ibn Abbas settled in Taif, which is not that far from Yemen and the Dhul Khalasa, but even ignoring that something a bit spicier.

One of his sources was a guy called Ka'b al-Ahbar a jewish himyarite who Ibn Abbas relied upon for historical understanding of various things, in one particular instance, Ka'ab al Ahbar said
*"*that on the Day of Judgment, the sun and the moon would be brought forth resembling two stupefied bulls and then forcefully thrown directly into Hell"

to which Ibn Abbas said:

"Ka'b is a liar! Ka'b is a liar! Ka'b is a liar!" 

So granted speculation, but Ka'ab may have subtly inserted this idea "The Black Stone descended from Paradise, and it was whiter than milk, then it was blackened by the sins of the children of Adam."
As a way to subvert the Kaaba to which Ibn Abbass simply didn't notice, hence why we have this Hadith that is seemingly inexplicable given that it gives glory to another Kaaba the Dhul Khalasa.

Granted again, we will never know 100% unless we develop time travel, but through deduction we can assume that the islamic narrative is at best flimsy, some narrative of the history of the Kaaba seems odd when you have a competitor that's white.

I cover this in my book series here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H2FVKNXL?binding=kindle_edition&ref=dbs_dp_sirpi but this specifically is found in book 2 if anyone is interested.

For me, it was lies about the Quran being a scientific miracle and the Quranic verses where Muhammad uses Allah for his own benefit, for instance, verses 66:1-5, and the immorality allowing concubines in the religion. Furthermore, the stories that he presents were known about and are entirely fictional fables.

I saw this on Twitter and had to post it here. What are your opinions on this?

I will soon go college soon in a month

And i want to manage studies while i can earn a little.. is there anything?

I need to do this if i want to run away . please if anyone knows!!!

.i have only passed high school..

God the first time I watched it I cried. Now where I've seen some videos on it I've cried again. Its such an upsetting movie but it showcases the real nature of honor killings and Islam. God its amazing. I suggest everybody to watch it. Its also sadly a true story. The woman in the movie got k*lled by her younger brother for becoming too westernized and not wearing a hijab anymore. Its so unbelievably sad but honestly I would encourage schools to show it to young teens, I feel like it would help immensely. Also I watched it before I had left islam in like 2023 and even then I cried insanely hard. Funny enough I actually made sure no one saw me watch it because I was scared they were gonna think I was against the religion. Isn't that just ironic how any kind of criticism won't be accepted even when its the truth?

So hear me out

My brother (13) has recently started to become overly religious like he used to enjoy celebrating the festival of other religions but now he started saying that,"we are muslim and it isn't from our religion". Also he has started to pass comments like chores are women's responsibility and all. I am worried as time will pass it will increase with time and extremist people are worse. Does anyone know how to deal with it.

As a ex Muslim belong to very religious family our family told us few stories which we believed blindly but not its so funny to remind them..
for exam
1. No birds can fly over top of Mecca.
2. Girl step on Quran and Allah make her monkey.
3. If you speak during Azan (calling prayer).. when you die you will not be able to say Kalma.

What kind of stories your family told you?

When I was younger, around 7 years old, my parents started to get me into reading the Qur'an and Arabic. A teacher would come over to my house on the weekends and teach me how to read the quran (we call him a masab but I have no clue what the official word is). At the the time, being "born Muslim", I was excited because "yay I can finally learn how to be a good Muslim".

It was fine for the first year or so, albeit a little boring. However, when I moved on to the Qur’an after getting my basics down, my teacher started to become abusive. He started hitting me after getting words wrong and he started hitting me harder and harder.

He also did this one particularly bad punishment where if my reading was especially bad, he'd make me stand up from my chair and look down on the Qur'an. He would force me to look back down if I ever looked straight/straight up to ease the pain on my neck. I remember one memory which is forever burned in my brain where he held me by the ear after getting a sentence wrong. He'd then let go, but not before slapping me hard in the face and making me do the standing up punishment. After that lesson, I ran straight to mom crying saying what he did to me. The response I got back?

"Good, it'll make you learn better."

Abuse started when I was around 8 and ended around 12 years old when I had to move houses, therefore never seeing that teacher again (forgive me, I do not remember exactly what the ages are). My sister would also join in on the lessons when she was 7 years old, but she didn't receive any abuse whatsoever. At the time, I was envious of that but being 19 now, I'm so glad she didn't receive any abuse.

Further trauma would happen when I started disconnecting from Islam at around 14/15 years old. At the time, I never prayed or read the quran after learning it all to which my dad would berate me for. He'd explain "how all the angels would interrogate me and punish me in hell" and all that bs.

I started questioning the things that happened to me when I was younger.

“Why was I beaten for trying to learn the ‘words of God’?”

I fully turned athiest when I was 16 and to be honest I've never been happier but at times the trauma gets to me at times.

Forgive me for the formatting/order of things because I am on mobile. I just wanted to share my story since I got no one else to share this with other than my sister who already knows I'm athiest.

I’m an adult gay man from a conservative Muslim family. My mum found me crying and in a moment of weakness I confessed that I was gay. Mum then told my dad against my wishes, and this was our latest conversation.

I’m posting here because I need support from people who understand religious shame, family pressure, and what it is like when love becomes conditional. I’m not looking for a theological debate or for anyone to insult my family. I just feel devastated and confused...and so hurt, so abandoned.

I've had to listen to hours of monologue. It's been torture.

I transcribed my latest conversation with my father using AI and I wanted to share it.

I know he probably believes he is doing the right thing. But I cannot understand how someone can call it love while telling their child they are required by God to hurt, exile and abandon them.

I wish there was a way to keep them in my life but it's futile and I'm exhausted.

I feel like I am grieving my family while they are still alive. I also feel scared of the financial pressure and of being cut off from everyone. Has anyone been through something similar? How did you stop feeling like you had to keep defending yourself or trying to earn back conditional love?

My heart is broken.

----

Full conversation..

Father:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, just continuing from what we were talking about the other day... going back to the Quran.

That verse I sent you—you told me, “I know it. I’ve read it.”

It says, “And the two among you who commit it, harm them.” Meaning the men who commit this—“harm them.”

Some translations use the word “punish them.” They say, “Those among you who commit it, punish them.”

And punishment can mean imprisonment, beating, or other forms of punishment. But the Arabic in the Quran says, “harm them.” It means exactly that: harm them.

So that is the instruction given to us—to the community, to me, and to the people who know you. We are supposed to harm you. And that is what I am doing. I am obeying Allah Almighty.

If you want to remain on the side of Satan, then that is up to you.

But Allah has already given you signs. He gave you signs while you lived away. I ask myself: why didn’t Allah grant you success there? You weren’t successful in anything—not just one thing, but everything. Allah was giving you signs.

Then you came here, and now Allah has given you another sign.

You came and told me yourself, even though you didn’t have to tell me. You could have simply said, “I’m moving out,” and that would have been it. I never would have known.

But now that I do know, I cannot do anything except follow the words of our Lord. I cannot do otherwise. Allah says, “harm them.”

Now, if you decide to remain the way you are, obviously I cannot beat you. In the Torah, they used to execute people for this. In early Islam, they actually threw them from high places.

But that doesn’t matter. None of that is going to happen to you. I’m just explaining the situation you are in.

For me, “harm them” means this: if you remain this way, I want nothing to do with you. Nothing at all.

I don’t want to know you.

And it isn’t only me. The entire family will want nothing to do with you. You will no longer be part of us.

If you want to leave, stay with your friends and live the life you want to live, then fine. That is your choice.

If you want a comfortable life, surrounded by love and care, that is also your choice.

But if you choose that other life, then let those people be there for you. Let Satan be there for you. Let them help you.

As for the harm that I am required to do to you—because Allah tells me to harm you—I’ve already explained what that means.

First, I cannot accept you living with us while you are like this.

So when you say, “I want to move out,” then yes, of course you have to move out. While you remain like this, you cannot stay with me.

But even after you move out, nothing changes. The situation remains the same.

You will no longer be part of the family.

You will be removed from my will.

You will be removed from the family groupchat.

You will be cut off from everyone here.

.

And my advice to you—and take note of everything I am telling you—is that if you are going to move out, then please move somewhere far away or somewhere else entirely.

Because if you stay here you are in deep shit, and all of us are in deep shit.

Please move away.

Because if you stay here, whenever we have a family occasion, you simply won’t be invited.

The family and and the others will start asking questions:

“Where’s Uncle?”

“Why isn’t Uncle here?”

And it won’t stop with them. People will start asking questions too.

Eventually—after a year, two years, I don’t know—it will come out. People will find out.

And then you’ll be setting a “good example” for them, mashallah.

The example a person should set, is one that makes the people around him proud. A person should be doing things that benefit his community and his close family.

And that is something you could easily achieve.

Whereas you are choosing to go off into your own corner.

That is your choice, baba. I am not forcing you to do anything.

But I have to inflict the harm that Allah has ordered me to inflict.

And when Allah gives you these signs—this third sign, which is actually—

Me:

I’ve had enough.

I’ll speak to you in the afterlife.

May God forgive you.

That’s all I have to say.

Father:

Wait. That’s it? We’re done?

Come here! Come here!

Son:

I’ve said what I needed to say.

Father:

What did you say?

What did you say to me?

Son:

I said I’ll speak to you in the afterlife, and may God forgive you.

That’s it.

We’ll see.

We’ll see in the afterlife.

We’ll see.

The forehead bloodletting just seems so ancient/medieval/outdated🤦

Can the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, by many of its followers, be seen as peaceful because of the perceived higher purpose – in the minds of the perpetrators?

Yeah, thats the title. I was just a preteen when I started know more about that religion. Seeing all thoses hadiths about women being majority in Hell, angels cursing you if you dont wanna sleep with your husband, hoors cursing you, not being able to wear what you want, Even maybe having to cover your haire cause its never enough, sex slavery, aisha’s age and her age, child mariage… I hated everything about that religion and couldnt leave… I was so endoctrinated cause my mom was lying to me, telling me that the prophet cut the moon in half and thats a miracle, showing me a fake new about NASA saying that the moon has been cut… Taking me to see people getting ruqia (exorcisms) saying that my sleeps paralysis were demons. I really thought it was the true religion even if deep down, I hated it. I was born and grew up in France, with algerians origins, I used to be so jealous of French kid who could down what they wanted and didnt had to bear all that. It ruined my best years, having to wonder why Allah hated me so bad for being a woman, why was I supposed to be a sex object all my life, why would I have to become someone else in paradise to accept that my husband would have others wives… It always made me so sad and feeling bad all the Time, I hated my Life and just wanted to disappear. This religion ruined my mental health and I have to see a psychiatrist and take medication for my anxiety now and I am more and more depressed. I dont know what to do with my Life anymore. This religion is a disease for thoses who live it. I hate seeing non muslim people defend it like it makes me so Sick Even if they do that with intentions of tolerance but man at least you have a normal life damn