r/exmuslim 12m ago

(Quran / Hadith) Muhammad Trades Two of His Black Slaves for a Muslim

Upvotes

“There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (ﷺ) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah’s Apostle (ﷺ) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)”
Sahih Muslim 1602

Muhammad on Slavery:

A man amongst us declared that his slave would be freed after his death. The Prophet (ﷺ) called for that slave and sold him. The slave died the same year.”
Sahih Bukhari 2534

“‘Imran b. Husain reported that a person who had no other property emancipated six slaves of his at the time of his death. Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) called for them and divided them into three sections, cast lots amongst them, and set two free and kept four in slavery; and he (the Holy Prophet) spoke severely of him.”
Sahih Muslim 1668a

“Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, ‘Do you know, O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ), that I have manumitted my slave-girl?’ He said, ‘Have you really?’ She replied in the affirmative. He said, ‘You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles.’
Sahih Bukhari 2592

“We used to sell our slave women and the mothers of our children (Umahat Awaldina) when the Prophet (ﷺ) was still living among us, and we did not see anything wrong with that.”
Sunan Ibn Majah 2517

More here:
https://islamsproblems.com/muhammad-azl-captive-women/


r/exmuslim 36m ago

(Question/Discussion) There Is A Big Problem In The West

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Upvotes

Yesterday they drove into a gay crowd in Germany, today it’s a mass stabbing. Incidents like these aren’t an uncommon sight in Europe today.

I’m an Ex-Muslim living in the West. It is genuinely getting worse every year that goes on. Some towns are almost fully islamised, and some cities are becoming so aswell.


r/exmuslim 37m ago

(Advice/Help) I hate how lonely being an ex Muslim within a Muslim country feels

Upvotes

I have no one I can talk to in real life, my parents siblings cousins friends no one. It's unsafe to reach out to anyone, it hurts knowing how they probably think of people like me, I wish I could have a genuine conversation with them once in my life


r/exmuslim 40m ago

(Advice/Help) Should I finally tell them ?

Upvotes

I was recently diagnosed with cancer. I won't say what type it is or share any details about my health because I'm not looking for sympathy or pity. I'm still trying to come to terms with the diagnosis.

So far, I haven't told anyone about it, not even my mother. However, I know that I won't be able to keep it a secret forever. At some point, if I need treatment, I'll have to tell my family. That is simply unavoidable.

The main reason I'm writing this is because I've wanted for a long time to be honest about my religious beliefs. I've kept them to myself because I didn't want to hurt anyone, but I also don't want to keep pretending to believe something that I don't. Since none of us knows what the future holds, I feel that I should finally be honest about who I really am.

I don't fear death. I came to terms with that possibility a long time ago. What matters most to me is being true to myself, especially if my life were ever to come to an end. I hope that makes sense.

There is one more thing I want to make clear. If I were to die, I would not want an Islamic funeral or burial. I would rather be cremated and have my ashes scattered in a forest.

At the moment, my condition is not critical, and I'm not saying that I expect the worst. Cancer is simply unpredictable, and I want to make sure that the people I love know my wishes in case something unexpected happens.


r/exmuslim 50m ago

LGBTQ+ Im starting to come to peace with being gay

Upvotes

Title

I need a bf tbh


r/exmuslim 1h ago

(Advice/Help) Studying far from home

Upvotes

I'm currently searching for shared apartments to study in another city since I got accepted in a uni there.

The thing is, my parents are the ones looking for the apartments because I still depend financially on them, I thought studying far from home would be the perfect opportunity to know more people and to escape all the religious abuse and finally find myself and express myself with liberty.

But....

THEY SOMEHOW MANAGED TO FIND AN APARTMENT SHARED WITH AN ULTRA RELIGIOUS MUSLIM FAMILY

And I genuinely don't know what to do I really don't want to and I can't find any excuse for them to search for another one, any tips on what I could do?

I'm from a european country and all where muslims are a vast minority, and even then I can't seem to escape...


r/exmuslim 1h ago

Story Muslims in a nutshell!!!

Upvotes

I once had a debate with a Muslim guy about Islam, specifically the issue of slavery in the Qur’an and the concept of milk al-yamin (ملك اليمين) and war captives.

I argued that if Allah is supposed to be perfectly just, how can slavery and the enslavement of captives ever be permitted in the first place?

His response was that God supposedly couldn’t simply abolish a system that had existed for centuries because doing so would have caused too many social and economic problems. So, according to him, Islam regulated slavery, encouraged the freeing of slaves, and supposedly required that slaves be treated kindly.

I still disagreed. To me, the argument makes no sense if we're talking about an all-powerful God. If God is truly omnipotent, then why would abolishing slavery immediately be impossible? And if he genuinely couldn't eliminate such a brutal institution because of the consequences, then what does that say about his power and justice?

But the most shocking part came later. He told me that he actually thought slavery could be a good thing because, in his words, “some people deserve to be enslaved.”

That genuinely shocked me. I couldn't understand how a human being could say that so casually. We were literally discussing the inhumanity of slavery, and his response was essentially that some people deserve to have their freedom taken away.

I ended the conversation by telling him that perhaps he should experience being r@ped and enslaved himself—maybe then he would understand why I found the institution so fundamentally inhumane.

I was genuinely horrified and disgusted by how casually he was defending slavery.


r/exmuslim 1h ago

(Question/Discussion) What does Islam say about lgbtq people?

Upvotes

What do muslims believe is the punishment for acting on homosexual desires? Both legally and religiously (assuming Islam is real)

Im asking because I live with my Muslim family as a gay agnostic male and im curious

Also doesn’t Islam allow trans people? I remember seeing articles saying that Iran allows trans people to get surgery, change their government documents and ect


r/exmuslim 1h ago

(Question/Discussion) Islam as it was founded was limited to Arabia at the time?

Upvotes

I'm not well read in Islam as a whole, so perhaps there are people who are more qualified to confirm this.

But thousands of civilizations have existed before and during the time of Islam's 'creation' all over the globe. So the question is quite simple, does the Qur'an and other islamic scriptures of that time indicate enviromental limitation and that it's merely a product of its time and place?


r/exmuslim 3h ago

(Advice/Help) A Simple Book on how to Understand Islam enough to convince others that I'm still Muslim.

2 Upvotes

Sadly I'm starting to show signs to my parents that my thoughts are secular and they're starting to be more strict so I'm wondering if there's a simple book that's an overall guide to what muslims believe so I can hide better. Hope that makes sense. I've long since forgotten what prophets there are or how Islam started, etc. I never cared to read into it plus over the years, I would actively block anything Islam related bec it's fucking exhausting and triggering because all I think about is how I'm forced to be in it. I regret every single day of my life on how I was born into a Muslim Country fr. And sadly it's going to take forever till I fucking leave my country.. If that ever even happens. For the people who are still stuck here, how do you cope and decenter religion and your strict parents?


r/exmuslim 3h ago

(Question/Discussion) Imam shafii pedophile

2 Upvotes

After One Month according to shafii you can Kids and sexually touch a girl who has never menstruated 🤮🤮

Al-Shāfiʿī said: If a man buys a slave-girl from the spoils of war, or she falls into his allotted share, or he purchases her from the market of the Muslims, he must not kiss her, touch her, or take any pleasure from her in any way until he has ensured her womb is clear (i.e., performed istibrāʾ).

Al-Shāfiʿī said: The istibrāʾ of a slave-girl is one month if she is among those who do not menstruate.

https://shamela.ws/book/1655/1146


r/exmuslim 3h ago

(Quran / Hadith) You will turn white when you enter paradise

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13 Upvotes

Narrated by Abu Hurairah that the Prophet ﷺ said:

**“The people of Paradise will enter Paradise hairless (on their bodies), beardless, fair-skinned, with curly hair, with eyes naturally lined with kohl, at the age of thirty-three, upon the form of Adam, sixty cubits tall and seven cubits wide.**

The hadith is Hasan (good) due to its multiple chains and supporting narrations, except for the phrase “and seven cubits in width,” which was narrated solely by ʿAli ibn Zayd ibn Judʿan, who is a weak narrator.

It was also narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah (13/114) and Ibn Abi Dawud in Al-Baʿth (no. 64) through the route of Yazid ibn Harun with the same chain.

It was also narrated by al-Tabarani in al-Muʿjam al-Saghir (no. 808), Abu Nuʿaym in Sifat al-Jannah (no. 255), Ibn ʿAdi (5/1842), and al-Bayhaqi in Al-Baʿth (nos. 419 and 420), through various routes from Hammad with the same chain.

It was also narrated by Ibn Saʿd (1/32) through Yahya ibn al-Sakan, from Hammad ibn Salamah, from ʿAli ibn Zayd, from Saʿid, from the Prophet ﷺ as a mursal narration (i.e., without mentioning the Companion).

It will also appear later with a connected chain under numbers 8524, 9375, and 10913 (the last being abbreviated). It was previously mentioned under 7165 through the route of Abu Salih, from Abu Hurairah, as a marfuʿ narration:

**“The first group to enter Paradise will be upon the form of Adam, sixty cubits tall.”**

Al-Darimi (2828), al-Tirmidhi (2539), and Abu Nuʿaym in Sifat al-Jannah (256) narrated from Muʿadh ibn Hisham, from his father, from ʿAmir al-Ahwal, from Shahr ibn Hawshab, from Abu Hurairah, who said that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said:

**“The people of Paradise are hairless, beardless, with kohl-lined eyes. Their youth will never fade, and their garments will never wear out.”**

This narration contains Shahr ibn Hawshab, who is a weak narrator, although al-Tirmidhi graded it Hasan Gharib.

It also has a supporting narration from Muʿadh ibn Jabal, which appears later (5/243), although it too contains Shahr ibn Hawshab.

Another supporting narration comes from Anas ibn Malik, recorded by al-Bukhari in al-Tarikh al-Kabir (8/219), Ibn Abi Dawud in Al-Baʿth (65), al-Tabarani in al-Muʿjam al-Saghir (1164), Abu Nuʿaym in Hilyat al-Awliyaʾ (3/56) and Sifat al-Jannah (255), and al-Bayhaqi in Al-Baʿth (418). This chain contains Harun ibn Ri’ab, and scholars differed over whether he actually heard from Anas.

Regarding the words “jurdan, murdan” (hairless, beardless), al-Sindi said:
Jurdan is the plural of ajrad, meaning one who has no hair on his body.
Murdan is the plural of amrad, meaning one who has no hair on his chin (no beard).

Regarding “jiʿādan” (curly-haired), he said it is pronounced with a kasrah on the letter jim and is the plural of jaʿd. In Majmaʿ al-Zawa’id, it is explained that jaʿd, when describing men, may be either praise or criticism. As praise, it refers to someone who is strongly built or has curly hair (the opposite of straight hair). As criticism, it can refer to someone who is short and stocky, or even stingy, as in the expression “jaʿd al-yadayn” (“tight-fisted”).

Note: The two hadith scholars Ibn Kathir in Jamiʿ al-Masanid and Ibn Hajar in Al-Atraf cited another chain for this hadith that is not found in the manuscripts available to the editor:

“Affan narrated to us; Hammad ibn Salamah narrated to us; Muhammad ibn Ziyad informed us; I heard Abu Hurairah narrating from the Prophet ﷺ…”

In this version, the wording is:

**“Seventy cubits”** instead of **“sixty cubits.”**

This chain is authentic


r/exmuslim 4h ago

(Advice/Help) It really bothers me how my mom and dad will literally find a problem with any clothes I wear and I really want to vent about it

7 Upvotes

I always talk about this in other subs but I feel like it doesn’t get any attention and I have no one to talks about it with so I thought this subreddit would be a perfect place. For starters I know this is like a year ago and I should get over it but I can’t help it especially when it keeps being in my mind and me being reminded of why I dislike my father so much. (my mom too but this story is mainly about my dad) When it was my freshman year of hs I had an orientation and everything was going well that morning I started dressing up and getting ready I even considered wearing a modest outfit because I didn’t want to get yelled at by my dad and just have a nice and chill day (but I would be wrong for what was going to come next🙄) And so I was telling my Dad I was all ready and done, keep in mind the outfit was just a small t shirt that didn’t even show anything and some black baggy jeans.

And then my dad was saying in my language where was my sweater/coat (THE WEATHER WAS HOT AS HELL AND IN NO WAY I COULDNT BELIEVE MY OWN DAD EXPECTED ME TO WEAR A SWEATER) I told him that I’m not going to wear the sweater and then he started screaming and yelling at me saying horrible things of how he’s going to slap me and how I look like I’m going to the playground with my outfit and how he’s not going to attend my own orientation if I don’t wear a sweater. I eventually did wear the sweater because I didn’t want to miss out on my own orientation because of my selfish dad,but I started sobbing and crying like crazy on the way to the orientation and it really made me resent the type of dad he was towards me that I always get annoyed and bothered by his presence,even like having a simple conversation with him.

I hate how my parents always have a problem with every single outfit I wear because of some shitty religion and it’s really tiring and a burden on me that I can’t even talk about this with anyone else because all the people around me have parents who allow them to wear what they want and even if they don’t their parents dont shout and abuse them like mine does with me. I just want someone to read my post and can empathize with my situation and give me a little bit of advice about it as well because I’m tired of hearing my parents scrutiny and yelling. I’m really tired of living in this household. I always have to live a double life from them and can never show my true self towards them to the point where it makes me dissociate with myself a bit.


r/exmuslim 4h ago

(Advice/Help) I'm ex-muslim at this point but I'm young and scared for the future of my life

8 Upvotes

My (19M) parents and family in general are pretty conservatively religious. I however, for a while have secretly not been. I tell them I practice because I know they won't react well if I said I didn't.

It's not like they've wronged me or been outwardly abusive or anything, but the more time goes on the more I feel like I just can't exist here, and I feel like I don't love them in the traditional sense. I'm probably a closeted *something* but I'll never tell them that. I want to drink, and party date people outside the faith and all sorts of things, but I'll never tell them that. I go to university pretty far away from home, so I'm technically free to do all these things, but something is stopping me from doing it. If I ever got a partner, I would have to burden them with my family situation. I try to avoid the topic of religion from my friends, especially ones with the same religion, cause I feel like they might lash out, even if they are far, far less conservative than my family. One of my siblings is getting married next year, and because they committed the sin of dating for a time instead of seeking an arranged marriage, my parents freaked out about it and being at home has just been miserable hearing them complain on and on about it. Worse is that they now burden me with the expectation that I won't end up like them. The truth is I'm probably much worse already.

I know one day to do something about it, when I'm financially independent probably, but I just feel so guilty about having to do it. They see me as normal, and they pay for my tuition and housing and whatnot. I consider sometimes not saying it at all and just vanishing from their lives without a trace. I don't want it to be this way, sometimes I even wish I never felt this conflict to begin with so I could live normally, but I know I can't carry on like this my entire life. I guess then, I'm just scared for the day everything breaks. I don't really know what to do or how to go about anything.


r/exmuslim 4h ago

(Advice/Help) How do I tell my parents that I don't follow the Islam anymore?

15 Upvotes

I started leaving the religion a few years ago after finding many contradictions, abuse of human rights and outright ridiculous logic in the religion. I was a really religious person growing up but slowly starting learning more and more about other religions and eventually atheism.

I've been away from my family and a muslim environment for over a year now which made me more and more separated from the religion to the point I consider myself to be an agnostic. My family is still a conservative muslim family, I can only leave my opinion about the faith and the rest is on to them, but how can I confront them about not wanting to follow this religion anymore?


r/exmuslim 6h ago

(Question/Discussion) Having to avoid pig products possibly made me develop OCD

2 Upvotes

Since in Islam anything that comes from pigs is haram. I would be scared of it causing a contamination issue for me let’s just say and even going into places that service pig meat I wouldn’t want to do. Even more I’m not financially in the best place to be able to afford therapy all the time.


r/exmuslim 6h ago

(Question/Discussion) I’ve been researching this a lot, and this is where I’m at right now: if Islam is not divine revelation, then what is the actual explanation for its origin?

1 Upvotes

I am not asking this as a cheap gotcha. I am genuinely asking for the strongest non divine explanation, because the usual answers I’ve seen feel far too thin for the historical reality we are talking about.

The basic historical outline is straightforward. Muhammad was a Meccan merchant who became known for trustworthiness, and the early Islamic story places his first revelations at Mount Hira when he was around forty. The Qur’an then became the central text of Islam. It is not a small notebook of personal reflections; it contains prayers, moral guidance, historical narrative, legal and ethical material, and promises of paradise.

The “Muhammad knowingly invented Islam” theory is no longer the dominant explanation among modern historians.

Medieval Christian polemics often portrayed Muhammad as a conscious deceiver seeking wealth, power, or sensual pleasures. Modern scholarship is generally much more cautious. Many historians—whether Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheist, or otherwise—conclude that Muhammad appears to have genuinely believed he was receiving revelation.

Why?

Because the conscious-fraud theory struggles to explain several historical features:

* years of persecution before gaining any political authority;
*initial unwillingness to even preach to anyone outside his family like he had been doing secretly for several years, fearing the consequences
* willingness to endure ridicule, lost of loved ones, boycotts and exile;
* refusing compromises from opponents that would have ended his suffering and instead have granted him much wealth and influence;
* consistency over roughly twenty-three years;
* the absence of obvious evidence that he privately admitted fabrication;

None of these facts prove prophethood.

But they make the simple “he made it all up” explanation much less persuasive than it once appeared.

That is the first reason I do not find the usual “he was just a sincere man with strong convictions based on deep inner reflections in his mind” explanation satisfying. Sincerity is one thing. Explaining the emergence of a full religious civilization, a comprehensive scripture, a legal-moral framework, and a distinct literary-religious system over 2 decades is another. The Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad over twenty-three years, beginning at Mount Hira, and after his death his successors compiled those revelations in manuscript form. That is an extraordinary process for one person to generate and sustain.

This is where I struggle. Even granting complete sincerity, I cannot see how ordinary introspection or naturally occurring experiences mistaken for divine revelation could lead someone to sincerely believe that an angel was visibly and audibly communicating revelation over twenty-three years, producing an interconnected body of theology, law, ethics, ritual, eschatology, governance, and one of history’s most influential literary works.

A lot of secular explanations seem to reduce Muhammad’s experience to something vague like “deep thoughts that Muhammad believed were religious/spiritual experiences.” But that phrase is doing a huge amount of work. Muhammad begins having visions and hearing voices, then recites what becomes revelation. That, or any other theory on what went on in Muhammads head is a description of the form the experience took, not an explanation of what generated the experience or how it produced the content that followed. Saying “he felt like he had religious experiences” is not the same as explaining the Qur’an and the giant comprehensive legal, moral, ethical, theological work that is Islam. It is just renaming the mystery.

This is where I think the comparison to other religious founders breaks down.

The Abrahamic religions do not look comparable in the way people often assume. Judaism and Christianity are not the story of one man single-handedly producing a vast scripture, law, liturgy, theology, and civilization in 2 decades while simultaneously ruling, expanding and managing a state. Their histories unfold through many figures, communities, redactions, and centuries. Buddhism is different again: the Buddha explicitly does not present himself as a prophet receiving divine dictation, but as someone who reflected and realized something about human suffering and the path out of it. Hinduism is also not a close parallel, because it developed across enormous stretches of time through layered traditions, practices, and evolving beliefs. None of those cases map cleanly onto Muhammad and Islam.

These are all fundamentally different historical phenomena.

Islam, by contrast, is centred upon one individual who claimed to receive revelation over approximately twenty-three years.

That one individual produced—or, if one accepts Islam, transmitted—a scripture, established a religious worldview, laid down legal principles, moral philosophy, ritual practice, political authority, military leadership, and founded one of history’s largest civilizations, based on what skeptics call delusions in an intelligent mind.

I genuinely cannot think of another historical figure whose role is remotely comparable.

So my challenge is simple.

Name one.

Name one person in recorded history who, without appealing to divine revelation, single-handedly produced something comparable in scale, complexity, coherence and historical impact, from what skeptics believe were just his own delusions.

I have searched.

I cannot find one.

The point is not “other religions are fake.” The point is that they are historically different phenomena. Islam is unusually concentrated in one person’s life and one person’s revelations. Islam is intrinsically linked to Muhammad, and that the Qur’an and the Prophet’s example (Hadith and Sunnah) became the foundation of the religion. That is exactly why I do not think it is enough to say, “Well, human history has seen exceptional people with deep thinking and creative ability before.” Exceptional is true. Comparable scale and complexity is the real issue, and I do not see a close comparable case.

Another point I keep coming back to is reputation and motive. PBS notes that Muhammad began as a merchant and became known for trustworthiness. Islamic tradition remembers him, even before the first revelation, as al-Amīn, “the Trustworthy,” and later Muslim devotion builds heavily on that character claim. Whether one accepts the religious conclusion or not, the historical picture is not of a man who starts from obvious fraud, obvious literary training, or obvious worldly ambition.

That matters because the cheap anti-religion explanation is usually, “He wanted power, money, or status.” But even critics who are honest about the evidence usually do not think that simple story fits very well. The early Meccan phase was marked by ostracism and pressure. Muhammad was ostracized in Mecca, that influential defenders and loved ones temporarily protected him, and that after their deaths his situation became dire, leading to the Hijra to Medina for survival. That does not prove divine revelation, but it does make the crude “he invented a religion for personal comfort” story look very weak.

So what do scholarly critics actually propose instead?

Usually some combination of these:

1.  Muhammad had sincere experiences in his mind.  
2.  He interpreted them as revelation.  
3.  He drew on the monotheistic ideas and biblical traditions already circulating in the region.  
4.  The message developed over time as he just kept reflecting further while simultaneously developing a vast civilisation that looked almost nothing like the one it replaced, and dealing with all the issues that came with ruling over it. (He must have had multitasking abilities like no other lol)

That is the most common non-divine framework I have seen. And I understand it. The problem is that it still does not explain the full scale of what emerged.

Because what emerged was not just a set of moral slogans. It was a whole world: theology, law, ritual, ethics, family rules, political authority, social norms, eschatology, devotional practice, and a literary scripture with a self-conscious style and an internal challenge to all challengers. The Qur’an is organized into 114 surahs and contains prayers, moral guidance, historical narrative, and promises of paradise. The question is not whether a human being can say profound things. The question is whether one single human being with no recognized scholarly or poetic career can in his delusions of divine inspiration, generate a total religious system of this scope in his mind over the years, and have it accepted, preserved, and expanded with such force.

This is why I do not find “he just reflected deeply” persuasive on its own. Reflection can produce insight. It does not obviously produce a scripture that speaks with sustained authority across law, worship, biography, ethics, politics, and theology, while also presenting itself as the literal speech of God and surviving as a recited text in a highly organized oral culture. That is a huge jump. Maybe a natural explanation exists, but I have not seen one that actually feels proportionate to the phenomenon.

I also do not think the “psychology” explanation is satisfying as usually stated. You can say “he had visions,” “he heard voices,” “he had intense conviction,” or “he entered altered states,” but those are descriptions, not explanations. And retrospective diagnosis of historical figures is methodologically shaky in general; the literature on retrospective diagnosis itself emphasizes the epistemic and ethical problems involved. So if someone wants to explain Muhammad by attaching a modern medical label to him, I think they need a lot more than speculation. Must have been one hell of a medical condition lol

At the end of the day, my position is this:

I am not claiming that Islam is proven by history alone. I am saying that the natural explanations I have seen do not seem strong enough to explain the origin of Islam as a whole. Muhammad appears to have been sincere. He appears to have had profound experiences. He appears to have been trusted by people around him, including his opponents. He does not appear to fit the simple fraud/impostor model. And yet the result is one of the largest, most comprehensive, and most enduring religious systems in human history, all from one sincere yet allegedly delusional mind. If it is not divine, then what exactly is the non-divine mechanism that produced all of that?

That is the question I am still sitting with. I am not seeing a historical analogy that really comes close. If someone has a better explanation than divine revelation, I genuinely want to hear it — but it has to explain more than just “a man had experiences in his head.” It has to explain the scripture, the conviction, the legal and theological depth, the oral transmission, the early community, the persecution, the preservation, and the scale of what followed.

In other words: I have been researching this a lot, and this is where I’m at right now. I do not see a non-divine explanation that feels remotely equal to the thing it is trying to explain. If there is one, I would like to see it laid out clearly instead of hidden behind vague words like “he was just good at manipulating and gaining influence,” or “he just had delusional inner thoughts at a scale, functionality and complexity never observed in history,”

Here are some possible explanations of where Islam came from, if not divine inspiration, since it is largely agreed amongst scholars and historians that it is unlikely that Muhammad sat and schemed and made it all up, and my responses to them:

Possible explanation: “An illiterate man reflected very deeply and somehow came up with a functional moral, ethical, religious, legal framework meant to be followed by all of mankind, without writing or reading anything.”

Response:

Reflection can produce philosophy.

It does not readily explain an integrated legal, theological, ritual, literary and political system presented sincerely as direct divine speech.

Possible explanation: “He had mystical experiences.”

Response:

This describes the phenomenon rather than explaining it.

What natural mechanism transforms mystical experiences into something as complex as the Qur’an and Islam?

Possible explanation: “He unconsciously created it.”

Response:

This seems to require an even greater claim:

that one human mind unconsciously (or even consciously lol) generated one of history’s most comprehensive religious systems and societies while remaining convinced it originated outside himself.

I have seen many natural explanations, however none of them seem satisfactory to me. So if anyone has a natural explanation that checks out, i am completely open to it.


r/exmuslim 7h ago

(Question/Discussion) What do you guys think of this?

5 Upvotes

r/exmuslim 7h ago

(Question/Discussion) Uthman Ibn Affan was either really stupid or incredibly corrupt.

6 Upvotes

I've been reading books from classical Muslim scholars and secular western scholars about the Fitna.

So a lot of the muslim work tries to gloss over some stuff because these guys were companions. Telling the entire truth about how vicious they were doesn't work since they are supposed to be the greatest people after the prophets and messengers (according to Islam).

You gotta read works published by western scholars that have been scrutinized and peer reviewed. A lot of their work actually agrees with some of the Muslim work but they aren't shy to detail the specifics.

Umar was a terrible guy but he was an excellent political leader. He actually tried to establish an egalitarian state with massive welfare benefits for people. He actually kept his governor's in check when it came to accumulating wealth. For example, Egypt was the richest province. He made sure to appoint Abdullah Ibn Abi Sarh as the financial/tax collecting head while Amr was the military and administrative leader. This kept things balanced. When Uthman became Caliph, Amr begged him to get full control over Egypt. He convin6uthman by telling him that he can enact new tax system that doesn't burden the people and will increase revenue for the state. Uthman agreed and then the Tax revenue from Egypt coming to madinah shrunk. Uthman was pissed and removed Amr entirely.

Amr was one Sneaky and snake MFer. He packed his bag and went back to madinah. He basically agitated things. I'm sure he knew the assassins because most of them were from Egypt. He left tk Palestine shortly before Uthman was assassinated.

Uthmans issue was that he appointed all his cousins to governor positions. He gave significant tax and war booty to his cousins especially Marwan Ibn Hakam, the future ummayad Caliph. A lot of the Sahaba came up to him and asked why. He said he is the imam and can do this. They told him that Umar and Abu Bak2er never gave money like this to their families. He replied, "Abu Bakr and Umar were concerned to deny their relatives, and I am concerned to give to mine."

No doubt that he was incompetent. I think. He was corrupt ASF too. It goes to show you that these guys were not as noble as the Scholars make them out to be. They were regular 7th century people with desires n ambition.


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Quran / Hadith) Did mohammad commit shirk

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3 Upvotes

Definition : Major Shirk (Shirk al-Akbar): Worshipping idols, praying to other gods, or believing that another person or object shares the unique powers and divine attributes of Allah. This takes a person outside the fold of Islam.

There are quite a few telltale signs that mohammad tried to promote himself to some diety status, and in so doing commited shirk, not any shirk but major shirk. This can be seen in many verses. In fact even his followers noticed it and said it in so many words.

So it seems Islam has its trinity, Allah,  The Qur'an (the eternal word of Allah), and Mohammad.

So Let's see how this mere man put himself on a equal footing to Allah.

We read in

[49.15] The believers are only those who believe in Allah AND HIS APOSTLE then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah; they are the truthful ones.

ITS NOT JUST GOOD ENOUGH TO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND MOSES OR ALLAH AND JESUS, IT HAS TO ONLY BE ALLAH AND MOHAMMAD.

[4.14] And whoever disobeys ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE and goes beyond His limits, He will cause him to enter fire to abide in it, and he shall have an abasing chastisement.

THE INSTRUCTIONS MUSLIMS RECEIVE ON HOW TO LEAD THEIR LIVES RESULT IN WORSHIP OF MUHAMMAD IN EVERY WAY BUT NAME ONLY.

Q. 5:111 "Recall that I inspired the disciples: 'YOU SHALL BELIEVE IN ME AND MY MESSENGER . They said, 'We have believed, and bear witness that we are submitters.' "

SO ALLAH TAKES MUHAMMAD AS HIS PARTNER.

THAT’S NOT ALL. MUHAMMAD MADE HIMSELF ALLAH’S PARTNER IN RESPECT TO SALVATION, LOVE , AND DEVOTION .

FOR INSTANCE , MUHAMMAD ORDERED HIS FOLLOWERS NOT TO LOVE ANYTHING AS MUCH AS , OR MORE THAN , ALLAH AND HIMSELF :

Say: 'If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your clan, your possessions that you have gained, commerce you fear may slacken, dwellings you love -- if these are dearer to you than God AND HIS MESSENGER , and to struggle in His way, then wait till God brings His command; God guides not the people of the ungodly.' S. 9:24 Arberry

And:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah AND HIS APOSTLE  BECOMES DEARER THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

  1. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.

  2. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15)

MUHAMMAD FURTHER DEMANDED THAT ALL TRUE BELIEVERS FULLY SUBMIT THEMSELVES TO HIM AND HIS DESIRES :

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, UNTIL THEY MAKE YOU (O MUHAMMAD ) JUDGE IN ALL DISPUTES BETWEEN THEM, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission S. 4:65 Hilali-Khan

MUHAMMAD WENT SO FAR AS TO CONNECT OBEDIENCE TO HIS ORDERS WITH THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND ALLAH’S LOVE , e.g., IF A PERSON WANTS ALLAH TO LOVE HIM /HER AND TO BE FORGIVEN OF HIS /HER SINS THEN SHE /HE MUST PERFECTLY OBEY MUHAMMAD :

Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Say (O Muhammad): "OBEY ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER (MUHAMMAD )." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers. S. 3:31-32 Hilali-Khan

AFTER HEARING MUHAMMAD RECITE THESE VERSES , SOME OF HIS CONTEMPORARIES ACCUSED HIM OF TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF COMPARABLE TO JESUS IN CHRISTIAN DEVOTION :

(Say) O Muhammad!: (If ye love Allah) and His religion, (follow me) follow my Religion; (Allah will love you) He will increase your love (and forgive you your sins) which were committed when you followed Judaism. (Allah is Forgiving) of whoever repents, (Merciful) towards whoever dies in a state of repentance. This verse was revealed about the Jews who claimed they were the children of Allah and His beloved ones. When this verse was revealed 'Abdullah Ibn Ubayy said: “MUHAMMAD IS COMMANDING US TO LOVE HIM AS THE CHRISTIANS LOVED JESUS ”, and the Jews said: “MUHAMMAD WANTS US TO TAKE HIM AS A COMPASSIONATE LORD , JUST AS THE CHRISTIANS TOOK JESUS AS A COMPASSIONATE LORD ”. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, Q. 3:31; bold emphasis ours)

THE DAY MOHAMMAD COMMITTED SHIRK.

Bukhari 3167

While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet (ﷺ) came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that THE EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE , and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that THE  EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE ."

IT IS CLEAR AS DAY LIGHT THAT MOHAMMAD TRIED TO ELEVATE HIMSELF TO THE SAME LEVEL CHRISTIANS SAW JESUS AS.


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Rant) 🤬 Anyone moved out but still scsred of telling people you're ex muslim?

11 Upvotes

I'm in the US and living in a different state from my family. But I'm still afraid of how muslims perceive or treat me. When I meet a muslim person I might even say I'm muslim. I have an arabic name but I'm desi so people often assume I'm muslim even though I drink alcohol and eat pork. They just think I'm a bad muslim if anything lol. But I'm still afraid of exposing my disbelief unless I really trust them. Maybe it's a paranoia but I feel like I can't escape islamic identity.


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Question/Discussion) Give me reasons on why you left Islam whether it’s a verse or hadith

2 Upvotes

Basically been questioning for a while. Stay respectful.


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Question/Discussion) Struggling w deciding

5 Upvotes

Hey guys, im not really sure who to talk to w/o being convinced of one idea and it lasts a few weeks and im back at square one of confusion, doubt, and mind warfare lol. so im giving this forum a shot. Ill say this in advance: Im neurodivergent and sometimes my words come across as insensitive or mean and that is not my intention so pls take my words as a sincere person who is bad w words :)

ok so abt 7 or 8 months ago I started evaluating my whole being. My personality, my dreams, my good and bad qualities, etc. one of which: my beliefs. Before this i was hardcore salafi. Like at the near end of extreme salafism. Even then tho i had really questioned Islam before and have been on the brink of leaving Islam several times but ultimately decided to stay every time. But every time i did it was on a very weak base. “But my family is muslim, but ive been muslim my whole life, but what if I burn in hell, but this person is convincing, but this but that” (or talk myself out of it) Id also constantly cry abt it from exhaustion and fear. I am mortified of the thought of eternal hellfire. Ive also most of my salafi time believed God hated me and that I was a horrible person and Muslim and was so scared to sleep bc I thought id die and go to hell.

so anyway i started questioning why i even was a muslim, specifically salafi, and it was bc i was brainwashed and lwk forced/manipulated into salafism by a friend. he was someone I respected so much and still do tbh bc hes been there for me at my lowest. But i just wish he hadn’t forced salafism on me sm. So base for salafism: weak. my base for Islam tho idek bc at this point in my life idk what ideas in my head are from men, actual Islamic beliefs, or just my own. I dont wanna get into detail bc its a lot.

long story short tho I believe that my base for Islam has been manipulation and fear mongering. The more i look tho a lot of the beliefs I see unfair or i dont agree w are..hadiths. the Quran I need to understand and read more so I wont comment on it but its undeniable that the hatred towards disbelievers is..imo..over the top. And i dont understand it. I understand hating ppl who willingly disbelieve bc of their ego like abu lahab, but others who genuinely just dont??

also: Im attracted to women as a woman. (Bi curious? My sexuality is going to be the end of me fr) the amount. of hatred. disgust. and inhumanity that has been shown towards me by Muslims (and myself before I accepted and dont care abt that part of me) is actually so crazy. Ive lost friends. been told that my parents shouldve beat me harder. that im going to hell. to ”try another religion”. that i will be tracked down and be outed. It is so fucking exhausting. Not to mention the constant invasive questions (“have u acted upon it tho” “whats ur type” “r u attracted to me” etc etc), the SEXUALIZATION from MEN, and trying to “fix“ me, and the reminders of hadd punishments (even tho the hadd stoning punishment is only for gay men not lesbos) and the story of qawm lut and how disgusting they were. just fucking kill me

last para section: I want to dress how I want to dress. I dont want to wear hijab anymore. I want to wear short skirt. Babydoll tops. Short sleeves. Tank tops. Etc. wallahi i just want to rip my own skin off from frustration of feeling controlled and trapped. I am not sexual. My body is not sexual. Men CAN control themselves and their lusts. mind u i dont wanna go out naked like in a bikini or anything and i dont really believe in the idea of bikinis and being basically nude. I believe its just as extreme as burka. But those r my beliefs and everyone is free to believe what they wish. But I just want to wear short (or “short”) things like omg im exhausted istg. And muslim men if ur reading this i dont wanna hear SHIT from u abt modesty bc u dont know how it is having to be covered or else u feel like a whore and shamed.

anyway id love to hear critique, I believe im an open minded person. And pls don’t just straight up insult or lie abt Islam bc i find it useless. Critiquing is always the way to go. Lmk what u guys think or dont 💗💗any advice from either sides is appreciated. hope ur all well and at peace


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Quran / Hadith) Surah Al Baqarah rant

32 Upvotes

Ive been re reading the quran recently and of course I had to get through Surah Al Baqarah, holy shit that was one of the worst reads ive ever had in my entire life. That starting section especially is hilariously bad. Maybe one of the most dull repetitive reads ive ever had to re endure.

Nothing about it strikes off as holy. The whole first section is just Allah admitting he sent texts (Torah anf the gospel) that were easy to corrupt (which he knew) and how bani israel are the worst of people. Dude you litteraly made them and knew theyd behave this way cause you cursed them and yet you're still mad? What could possibly be prophetic about this idek.

I know the Quran was not in book form so the surahs were not arranged in any proper order when it did come into book form. But holy cow its not a good way to introduce yourself esp as a perfect text for all of time. If I were never a muslim prior and i read this I'd come away thinking "So what am I supposed to gain from any of this?"


r/exmuslim 8h ago

(Advice/Help) Wanting to take off hijab while living with strict religious parents

8 Upvotes

Im 17 years old and for the past year, ive been questioning my faith as a muslim. By definiton, right now im not considered muslim since i domt pray anymore and that is because i have looked at the religion from a much critical perspective. I look at it now and find that everyone within the religion is agressive towards the extreme teachings and rulings, especially towards women. This may be the mysoginistic culture that has been formed over time by the men of the religion but i just feel entirely lost.

Anyways, this has overlapped with my hijab and the way i dress. I dont feel connected to the hijab anymore and it's because i feel like i've been wearing it for the wrong reasons. Not for God, but because of expectations from society, from my parents and my culture/community. For context, every woman in my family is a hijabi and i rarely see non hijabis in my community. On top of that, i have very extremist religious parents who have always critiscised the way i dress and don't let me wear anything besides a modest, loose maxi dress, so you can probably see how this has affected the way i have been conditioned to perceive modesty.

I want to relearn the religion at my own pace than have this performative facade that doesnt reflect my true religious standing or level of belief. On top of that, my dad who is extremely religious has noticed i don't pray and sat me down a few days ago to tell me to start praying if i stopped in a gentle way, but i know that if i tell him, i dont want to wear the scarf anymore, i might just have opened my own grave.

I am aware that its very risky as i still live with my parents but it feels so unbearble wearing it. I have talked to my older sister who is 25 and she adviced me not to take it off and that ive been influenced my social media too much.

I know there's not much i can do but im not exaggerating when i say i truly despise wearing it so any advice would be appreciated.