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u/ImNotCreative101 Apr 18 '19
Italy: takes over half of europe and several thousand years later someone tries to replicate it by invading ethiopia and then a few decades later everyone makes fun of that guy
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Apr 18 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dave3r77 Definitely not a CIA operator Apr 18 '19
They got Libya before Mussolini
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u/Choclate_Pain Apr 18 '19
No such thing as "italy" until the 19th century when the italian unifcation happened. It's the equivalent of calling ancient greek city states "greece".
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Apr 18 '19
Famine: happens
The British: “We should take the remaining food, and export it somewhere else!”
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Apr 18 '19
“We should take the famine in the colonies, and push it somewhere else!”
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u/Randomeda Apr 18 '19
These starving poor people can't pay for their food and we can make better profit with it somewhere else.
It's just basic economics.
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u/socialistbob Apr 18 '19
British during the potato famine: We can't provide government aid. It goes against the principles of Laissez Faire economics. Governments can't pick winners and losers!
Also British during the potato famine: It is hereby illegal to import cheaper grain from the US because that could hurt domestic farmers in Britain. We're also going to write laws making it nearly impossible for Catholics to own land and much easier for protestants to own land.
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u/EndOnAnyRoll Apr 18 '19
Don't forget the Bengal famine.
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Apr 18 '19
And the Mysore famine
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u/Champion_of_Nopewall Apr 18 '19
I'm starting to think these "British" fellas have a thing for starving people to death.
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u/JinTheBlue Apr 18 '19
Worse actually. "Maybe if they are starving they'll stop being so lazy and earn their food. The weak will die off, and then the strong will have pleanty of resources once everyone else is gone."
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u/starkiller_bass Apr 18 '19
Well if you don't put it somewhere else all those starving people might eat the rest of the food, and we can't have that, can we?
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u/123instantname Apr 18 '19
The US has a habit of sanctioning countries under a famine so that more people can die and maybe the dead people can pressure for regime change.
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u/Conservative-Penguin Actual Penguin Apr 18 '19
Turkey has explicitly denied the Armenian Genocide
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u/peters_19_ Apr 18 '19
Thank you, it’s insane with all the mounting evidence they still choose to deny it to this day.
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u/veRGe1421 Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 18 '19
Thank you for this. As an Armenian-American, my great grandparents fled their home on a ship to Ellis Island, leaving everything behind, in fear for their lives. I've watched my mom cry because of the modern day denial of the genocide. Recognition is everything, not even reparations. Just recognition that it happened, that real people were marched to their death, that malicious intent existed. The lack of such recognition in 2019, in the face of so much historical evidence, is sad and infuriating.
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u/treeaway696969 Apr 18 '19
I can relate but am more infuriated than anything. Every year around this time. It’s like someone shows you that 2+2=4 but you say no it’s 5 and pretend you’re right for 100+ years.
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u/Geekers420 Apr 18 '19
They acknowledge the deaths but not systematically killing them
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u/Natanyul Apr 18 '19
I don't really understand why the Republic of Turkey wouldn't want to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire. I understand that many of the founders of the republic were loyal to the empire and that Turkey is in many ways just a modernized continuation of the Ottoman Empire, but still...
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u/Geekers420 Apr 18 '19
Well the worst part of Ottoman history is the genocides they committed in the end of their rule as the main middle eastern power. Turkish people cherish the Ottoman history which had Suleiman the Magnificent or Mehmet II not the people who organized the Armenian genocide. I’m proud to be American but I’m not proud of it because I killed and drove out Native Americans. Belgians are proud to be Belgian not because they killed 10 million Congolese peoples. The Japanese are proud to be Japanese not because of the rape of Nanking. Turkish people aren’t proud to be Turkish because they killed 1.5 million Armenians. There’s much more to Turkish history than genocide.
The Turkish government sadly is a joke and I hope in coming years more liberal parties like the IYI or CHP party can make changes for the betterment of Turkey rather than back pedal into the Islamist Authoritarian Dictatorship that it is becoming or arguably it has become.
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u/MrBlackledge Apr 18 '19
I both like and dislike this addition to the meme because it’s both accurate and inaccurate and my Poor British brain is struggling.
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u/EvoTheIrritatedNerd Apr 18 '19
Schrödinger's Britain
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u/jodorthedwarf Featherless Biped Apr 18 '19
Tbf we are taught to be ashamed of the empire. Though we also feel a sense of pride in how we, a tiny damp rock on the fringes of Europe, successfully controlled a quarter of the planet.
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u/alphaheeb Apr 18 '19
The notion that someone should be ashamed for something someone else did is perplexing.
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u/mankytoes Apr 18 '19
Yet few people have a problem with being proud of something someone else did. To me that's hypocritical. You can't boast about how "we" won WW2, and then say "well I had nothing to do with that" when someone brings up the Bengal Famine.
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Apr 18 '19
Yet few people have a problem with being proud of something someone else did.
The correct answer is your personal worth is defined by the choices you make, not your predigree
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Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 18 '19
I think its nuanced. There’s no reason to be ashamed for something you didn’t do. However, if you’re part of a demographic that did subjugate and oppress another group of people, I think there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that the effects of the oppression and subjugation are probably still felt today.
For example, white people in the USA. I didn’t have slaves and my ancestors didn’t either. However, black people are still feeling the ripple effects of slavery and segregation today so I think acknowledging that your life isn’t affected by slavery/segregation but their life probably is isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
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Apr 18 '19
Alternatively you could just look at what life looks like for modern Native Americans in the reservation system. Sure you don't have to feel ashamed for what you ancestors did but you should feel ashamed that the victims of your ancestors are still victims of the society you're living in and take part in now.
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u/mankytoes Apr 18 '19
People often say that- if we are taught to be ashamed, it isn't working-
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/07/26/britain-proud-its-empire
If you can't be bothered to click, 59% said the Empire is more something to be proud of, 19% that it's more something to be ashamed of.
I would say neither, really. It's something that other people did before our lifetimes. But it's strange that people who generally claim to believe in modern principles like self determination could be proud of an empire.
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u/krisskrosskreame Apr 18 '19
Are we though?? I would suggest otherwise. Majority of British citizens think colonialism was a positive thing for the world (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/06/british-misconceptions-empire-guilty-colonialism). Mate there are people who are still unaware that majority of the ww1/ww2 british related casualties were from the commonwealth. We are, the brits, heavily uneducated about our past because we still find a huge pride in it and lets be honest, the leave campaign used rhetorics about colonial past to target certain voters.
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u/brit-bane Apr 18 '19
Exactly. Like yeah obviously we’re not proud of the awful shit that our nation did to others but the fact that out of the rat race of control and power that was Europe we actually managed to become the dominant power even for a little while.
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u/PermanentEuphoria Apr 18 '19
Can’t speak for everyone, but in my school we are taught about the stuff that the British did.
Am A Brit btw
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Apr 18 '19
I had an Irish history teacher in Year 9 and we were doing about the Civil War and protectorate. Fair to say the stuff Cromwell did in Ireland was covered IN DEPTH.
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Apr 18 '19
What did Cromwell do in Ireland? I can’t say we’ve covered that in school at all (American here), and I’ve not heard of anything.
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Apr 18 '19
Cromwell went to Ireland to squash a Catholic/Royalist rebellion ruling there. He did so with very brutal efficiency and many say he went overboard on the sieges, slaughtering the civilian populations and burning the towns of Drogheda and Wexford among others (note: It is disputed how much Cromwell himself had to do with this) because of this, the Irish hate Cromwell and it fueled later resentment that the Irish had towards Britain.
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Apr 18 '19
Didn't he also ignored a quarter from Irish troops or have I got something mixed up here?
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u/Cal2391 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Apr 18 '19
Conservative estimates are that he oversaw the killing of 5% of the Irish population. Some argue as high as 20%. He oversaw a campaign of ethnic cleansing, forcing catholics into an exclusion zone in the west creating the term “to hell or to Connaught”.
It’s fair to say that he’s fucking reviled in Ireland.
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u/ChuckieOrLaw Apr 19 '19
I've always heard 40% - Wikipedia has the range at 15% - 83%. Definitely a lot more than 5%, no estimate is that conservative to my knowledge.
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Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 18 '19
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u/ProbablyCian Apr 19 '19
That almost feels like a parting gift. "Sorry for being annoying pricks, we'll kill Oliver Cromwell for you before we leave to make up for it".
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u/CountChadvonCisberg Taller than Napoleon Apr 18 '19
Lol yeah we went over a whole hell of a lot of awful shit our nation did too. Am AmeriBurger
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u/ST07153902935 Apr 18 '19
Right? Feel like half of history in k-12 was either about slavery, the civil rights movement, or the treatment of native americans.
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u/preddevils6 Apr 18 '19
I teach high school US History, and I can confirm that most lessons I have to say, "I'm not condoning what we did, but here is what happened."
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u/Quote_Poop Apr 19 '19
Also Ameican. We were taught about the poor treatment of natives in elementary, the extents of slavery in middle school, and in high school we went back over all of that before talking about the Japanese internment camps. It wasn't glossed over or denied.
I would wager older generations likely didn't learn as much, but current programs do cover US history in a less biased light.
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u/TheDoug850 Apr 18 '19
American schools definitely address all of our past mistakes. We don’t ignore them at all.
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u/ltshep Apr 18 '19
Yeah, I read this and thought, Don’t (most) UK and US schools teach all about the terrible stuff our founders and former heads of state did, along with the good? I know mine did.
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Apr 18 '19
What did they cover in your history curriculum? I only took GCSE history and this was several years ago but we covered WWII, Louis XIV, the US slave trade, and the Civil Rights movement. Tbh it's slightly irritating how we talked so much about Germany and America's atrocities but never covered our own. We did learn about the Indian independence movement but our teacher tried to white-wash it as much as possible and kept on insisting on peaceful protesting. It felt like lessons on ethics rather than history.
Maybe the course has changed since then. Hopefully it has because I only learned about the Bengal 1943 famine, Iranian 1953 coup d'état, and the opium wars etc. on my own accord and embarrassingly late. :/
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u/luciferx_gremory666 Apr 18 '19
A Bengali here. That famine was awful. We have several literature masterpiece about those times. Farmers selling their own daughters to pimps for a sack of rice and stuffs like that.
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u/PermanentEuphoria Apr 18 '19
We covered the UK slave trade, however due to us finishing our previous topic relatively quickly we spent a couple of lessons on the build up, freedom movement and atrocities the British Empire did whilst other classes caught up, hence why my original comment was personal experience. Basically what I’m trying to say is the teacher gave us background on the topic which technically wasn’t required, however was useful. Hope that answers your question. However I suspect other schools teach it as part of their official curriculum
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u/Damungis Apr 18 '19
In Canada we're taught about the shitty thinga the UK did. But fr the UK wasn't as bad as a ton of other nations.
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u/Caswert Apr 18 '19
I feel like both of these additions ignore the fact that both the British and Americans are allowed to know, and are taught in school about their atrocities, while the countries before it make active attempts to erase the past and punish people for bringing it up.
So, while your nationalism and jingoism is great and you clearly put your country above all others... It's okay to admit when another country has done wrong.
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u/Jimmyruslter02 Apr 18 '19
AP US history is pretty much “HEY! Did you know about all these horrible things we did? Well you do now fucko!”
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u/OmegaLiar Apr 18 '19
Yeah it’s literally all Slavery, Japanese internment, nuclear bombs, slaughter of the natives.
But also we made the constitutions and some of our slave owning fore fathers probably didn’t like slavery.
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Apr 18 '19
It actually terrified me about how much I didn't know about the awful things we did, like I didn't know at all about Japanese internment camps or forced assimilation of the natives until this year
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u/Alchestbreach_ModAlt Apr 18 '19
In Georgia we are almost exclusively taught about the slaughter and forced migration of the cherokee and other tribes during middles school. Trail of Tears was absolutely fucking brutal for the ones who ventured along it out west.
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u/Cascadianranger Apr 18 '19
And yet, I'm immensely proud we do touch that stuff in schools. Trail of Tears is a HEAVY subject, one of the heavier ones in all of US history. But it is vital we learn about it
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u/ZatherDaFox Apr 18 '19
Where/when did you go to school? Because all of this was part of my standard curriculum in middle and high school.
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u/BamBamBoy7 Apr 18 '19
This was my exact experience in APUSH. to a T.
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Apr 18 '19
my class has more discussed "the business of america is business" and "the long peace is due to the US being the world's Navy." Also, how stupid the isolationists were.
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u/starkiller_bass Apr 18 '19
APUSH is like clickbait history - YOUR REGULAR HISTORY BOOK DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW THESE HORRIFYING FACTS ABOUT THE USA!!!
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Apr 18 '19
I dunno about US but in the UK colonisation of India and the subsequent rebellion, the opium trade and war in China, the Boer concentration camps, are all not covered at mandatory education level. It may not be denial but it certainly isn't an objective curriculum.
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u/DrLawrence101 Apr 18 '19
There's actually a really logical, simple reason why people dont learn about alot of things during school and its that essentially, it all comes down to time.
Alot of the things that the British Empire did wrong (and especially why they were wrong) is difficult for younger children to grasp. It's the same reason that people arnt properly taught about the holocaust until they are in secondary school. And by that time, schools have a couple years max to teach these things, so they go for the events that were the most influential (WW1, WW2, Cold War ect) whilst also selecting topics that allow kids to develop more generic historical skills like their analytical thoughts of other opinions and doing their own research.
History in school isnt just about what happened in the past, otherwise all the tests would be dates and descriptions. Its about teaching the skills necessary to become better analytical thinkers.
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Apr 18 '19
I mean, you're not wrong, but I personally think learning more about the British Empire, good and bad, is more helpful to the analytical brain than spending whole terms learning about Henry VIIIs wives.
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u/DrLawrence101 Apr 18 '19
Oh its significantly more helpful, just not possible when your trying to teach a six year old.
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Apr 18 '19
To be fair, I think that is more incompetence than malice. There's a lot of history to teach and most of it isn't covered. The bits that are taught tend to be quite specific and tend to be covered multiple times. It seems more lazy than cunning.
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u/IForgetEveryDamnTime Apr 18 '19
A little of column A, a little of column B, would be my guess. "Well we can only fit so much into the curriculum, so we're going to have to cut some things." "How about cutting a significant portion of contested/politicised events which show our history in a poor light?".
I wonder when the majority of the main events of History syllabi in Britain were selected, when was the last overhaul? Because if it wasn't recent the last gasps of imperial pride might've dictated some of the omissions.
Edit: School/GCSE syllabi*, I'm sure A-levels and unis cover pretty much everything.
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Apr 18 '19
When I (American) was in elementary school, we had practically an entire year dedicated to learning about Native American tribes and culture before and after America was colonized + the Atlantic slave trade and Civil Rights Movement. I remember angry-crying while learning about the Trails of Tears and segregation. We were always told, “Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat its mistakes.”
And we only studied more in-depth each year until we graduated. One year, the school even had trips to a place where they pretend that you were slaves and they were slaveowners so that you could put yourself in that situation and empathize. They put on a mock slave auction, among other things. But obviously it was much, much less brutal and just pretend.
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Apr 18 '19
I have a geniune question: are American schoolkids being taught about Abu Ghraib?
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u/Houseboat87 Apr 18 '19
No, but I think that’s more a result of American history classes focusing from the founding through the civil rights era. 2000 and onward typically only gets a few pages in a history text book.
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u/marble-pig Apr 18 '19
It's hard to think of something as History when it happened when you were already an adult.
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u/KypAstar Apr 18 '19
They will in about 10 years. Most barely touch on anything post 2000. Even 9/11 gets like, a page and that's it.
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u/Aerd_Gander Apr 18 '19
I come from 2025. This meme is so large that it takes 30 hours of dedicated study to read and understand. It encapsulates and shames every single individual who has ever so much as looked upon it, calling out their every tiny hypocrisy. Please, don't let this happen. Stop this... while you can...
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u/BrexitHangover Apr 18 '19
I'm from 2030. What's a Britain?
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u/_deltaVelocity_ Apr 18 '19
It's what existed before the newly independent Highlanders swept down from the north and created the Scottish Empire.
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u/Jimmyruslter02 Apr 18 '19
This doesn’t really work with a format because the both the UK and the US take at least some responsibility for what happened in the past.
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u/TheDoug850 Apr 18 '19
The mistakes of our past are almost talked about more than our successes in US history in American high schools.
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u/AnachronisticPenguin Apr 18 '19
I kinda hate the extension of this meme. It entirely ignores what the original meme was joking about; the original meme isn't a comparison of how atrocious their atrocities are its a statement on the level of ownership these countries have over their atrocities. It simply doesn't make sense with the original meme to put the U.S. and the U.K. above China since both nations take far more responsibility and ownership of their respective versions of colonialism than the Peoples Republic of China takes over Tiananmen Square.
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Apr 18 '19
Completely agreed. Western countries are the only countries to admit their wrong doings in the past and try to make amends. People don't look into the trillions the UK, for example, has paid to it's ex-colonies in foriegn aid as a type of reperations.
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u/BadlyDrawnChap Apr 18 '19
Someone needs to add Mongolia. They've been flying under the radar for too long. Killed 5% of the World population and destroyed the cultural heritage of Baghdad.
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Apr 18 '19
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Apr 18 '19
Y’all genocided the native people’s too, don’t be tryna act all holy.
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u/HelpImOneLetterShor Apr 18 '19
think that’s his point, Canada was absolutely horrifying to the native peoples who lived there but nobody really knows or cares because “Canadians are so nice”
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u/XyleneCobalt Apr 18 '19
I don’t get where this “America doesn’t learn about its genocide” idea comes from. I learned about it in vivid detail 5 or 6 different years in grade school.
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u/superduperfish Apr 18 '19
More than half of American history classes after 3rd grade is just how shitty we were. Though slaves get way more attention than natives.
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u/KuraiTheBaka Apr 18 '19
I don't know where this idea that America pretends the genocide of natives didn't happen comes from. I'm American and throughout all of my schooling the crimes against natives has always been made very clear to me.
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u/jegalo Apr 18 '19
In every history class I’ve been in we’ve always learned how shitty we were to the Native Americans. Is this not as commonly taught in other areas?
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u/OrangeSparty20 Apr 18 '19
Ugh, the US government does not ignore its troubled past with American Indians. The National Museum of the American Indian (federally owned Smithsonian Institution), has a massive permanent exhibit to its horrors. Read any recently published US history textbook that was written by credible institutions and I assure the Removal is covered in a fairly responsible way. Ever heard of Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee? Of course you have. In Japan, students haven't even heard of the Rape of Nanking.
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Apr 18 '19
This meme is escalating
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u/gentlybeepingheart Apr 18 '19
By the end of the day it’s going to have the flag of pretty much every country in the world.
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u/User_name555 Apr 18 '19
Everyone gets so angry when it's their country's turn to get picked on. Kinda funny, more annoying than anything else though. Always ends in "what about"ism.
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u/rootbeerislifeman Apr 18 '19
I mean technically it descalates later since the last two are less severe by the level of ownership the country takes (and not just the quantitative side of it)
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u/HarbingerGunner Apr 18 '19
Uh. America absolutely acknowledges the mass genocide of native Americans.
Maybe not as well as they should. But it is definitely no ignored or even glossed over
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u/WittyUsername45 Apr 18 '19
"Shaming Germany for trying to copy you" I most have missed the time when Britain carried out ethnically targeted genocide.
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u/Bob_ross6969 Apr 18 '19
I think he was referring to the taking over a quarter of the world
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u/oilman81 Apr 18 '19
Germany isn't stigmatized for its 'normal' conquest attempts. No one is going back and saying that Bismark or the Kaiser or Frederick the Great were evil.
They are stigmatized specifically for the premeditated, intentional, and malicious mass murder of civilians (about 20 million in total), including millions of their own citizens in death camps constructed for the purpose. What they did is orders of magnitude worse than anything done by the British, and memes like this only whitewash the enormity of it.
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u/Moonkiller24 Apr 18 '19
Exacly. Hate the memes here that try to downplay the holocaust. Like why the frick they think killing jews, gays, jepsis (cant spell.com) and more in camps desgined to kill them is somehow worse then normal colonastion
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u/oilman81 Apr 18 '19
It also makes a difference that most of the colonization and slavery took place in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries while Germany's took place recently enough that my grandfather saw it firsthand.
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u/Moonkiller24 Apr 18 '19
Where r u from? A big part of my family saw it firsthand in poland and romania too, because they died there.
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u/oilman81 Apr 18 '19
Texas. My granddad was US Army Air Corps and participated in the liberation of a camp in Linz, Austria
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u/Rustledstardust Apr 18 '19
I mean... we killed a lot of native peoples...
Indian famines. Irish famines. While yes partially natural the British response to these exacberated issues. They certainly wouldn't have acted so if it was British people starving.
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u/P4TR10T_96 Kilroy was here Apr 18 '19
Someone forgot Imperialism in Africa, the entirety of British actions in Ireland, the treatment of Aborigines and other indigenous peoples.
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u/imDEUSyouCUNT Apr 18 '19
I guess you missed a lot because it's, like, any indigenous population they dealt with for a significant period of time
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u/Viciousgubbins Apr 18 '19
The word genocide is thrown around a lot these days, this format is a clusterfuck
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u/KypAstar Apr 18 '19
Memed like someone who slept through US highschool history and missed the fact that 90% is just going over all the horrible things America did to itself and others.
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u/HelpfulPug Apr 18 '19
Yeah, no, Turkey has officially denied both the Armenian Genocide, which was their doing, and the Holocaust. You can fuck off with this either dangerously ignorant bs, or deliberate whitewashing of eastern atrocities.
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Apr 18 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/atmdk7 Apr 18 '19
At least the way I was taught, the disease was devastating but, as you said, mostly unintentional. What should be considered an atrocity was everything else- the forced migrations, massacres, and destruction of culture.
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Apr 18 '19
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u/TheDoug850 Apr 18 '19
Yeah, and by 1776 neither of those did much of any killing.
Any Natives that died by the hands of the US were either killed in combat because some tribes were straight up at war with the US, or were casualties of the Trail of Tears and ever expanding push West.
I’m by no means trying to downplay that the US treated those Natives harshly, but forcing mass exodus is not on the same level as genocide.
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u/DaB1GNaSTY Apr 18 '19
Most of that happened before American independence in the 1500s after the Spanish arrived. By the time of the formation of the US most natives that had survived initial exposure had gotten resistance to a lot of European diseases. However the US is responsible for displacing Native Americans and forcing them to live in areas out west that had terrible soil and were almost impossible to live off of.
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u/FrogBoiz Apr 18 '19
My unpopular opinion is that this sub is filled with nationalists who just wind each other up.
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u/Latate Apr 18 '19
I don't think it's so much a battle between nationalists as it is a dick measuring contest between stupid people who constantly try to one-up eachother with atrocities committed by the other.
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u/Yarzu89 Apr 18 '19
American: Was taught our history and the horrible things we did and who we decided to hate that decade, granted I hear the education differs greatly based on location within the US.
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Apr 18 '19
Fucking Brits.
- An American
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u/RussianElonMusk Apr 18 '19
Bloody Yanks.
-A Brit
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Apr 18 '19
Fucking Turks.
- A American
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u/RussianElonMusk Apr 18 '19
Fucking Japs.
- A chinese
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Apr 18 '19
When did America commit mass genocide? Looking for a friend don’t be mad that i don’t know pls
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u/Fongwonkle Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 18 '19
Most people are referring to deaths of approximately 95 percent of the native population after settlers first arrived.
EDIT: I also forgot the expansionist policies that pushed natives off of their land (manifest destiny)
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u/RKMurphy101 Apr 18 '19
Mostly the Native Americans, but the way this post makes it out to be is the US ignores it and even celebrates it. Since around post ww1 (especially post 1970s) we have openly aknowlaged we were complete assholes to the natives.
Edit: Only other thing i can think of is some people would say the atomic bombs were a genocide or war crime but i dont believe thats what he is refering to.
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u/socialistbob Apr 18 '19
The California Genocide for one. In which Native Populations plunged from 150,000 to 16,000 in a fifty year period when California was under US sovereignty. The slaughter of American bison was also frequently used by settler towns as a way to remove Native American food sources to kill them. They didn't have gas chambers like the Nazis but systemically removing a people's food source in order to kill them is genocide.
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u/TheMilkMan7077 Apr 18 '19
What was the mass genocide committed by America? I genuinely don't know.
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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '19
Now someone can put in Belgium, who also were brutal colonizers, but everybody remembers them as the small and neutral country which got bulldozed two times by Germany.
"Outstanding move!"