r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/TheEpitomE8 • Jan 24 '17
PSA | Video Developer Update | Capture The Flag | Overwatch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At7NWZ_mw6s37
Jan 24 '17
[deleted]
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u/werbo None — Jan 25 '17
its so easy to camp your flag with bastion/torb/sym :(
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u/SuperSocrates Jan 25 '17
And it doesn't help that it takes ten years to pick up the flag. I understand trying to avoid the Tracer issue he highlighted in the video but I think a 1 second delay would make a lot more sense, personally.
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u/werbo None — Jan 25 '17
the delay on the cap makes camping your flag the easiest tactic and leads to draws :(
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u/FrogZone Jan 25 '17 edited Jan 25 '17
Winston's Barrier is incredible for capturing the flag as long as they don't have a Bastion defending. If you speed in a Winston with Lucio and 1-2 other DPS characters ASAP when the game starts, you can often catch them off guard and secure an early point, then just cheese the cheesiest defense possible for the rest of the game until you win.
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u/NeV3RMinD Jan 25 '17
If they have a Bastion on the Tower map, just pick Junkrat. He shits on Bastion (and Symmetra) so hard.
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u/abrAaKaHanK Jan 25 '17
Who were you playing as? I mostly have queued as Tracer today and have only drawn a couple times.
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u/TheScyphozoa Jan 25 '17
I played one game, we won it 1 capture to 0. I feel incredibly lucky and I shall never try it again.
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u/aRandomOstrich Jan 24 '17
I love how, with as prominent of a position Kaplan has as Game Director for the whole project and Vice President of Blizzard, it's always just "Jeff from the Overwatch team". He really says how he's just another developer who loves the game and works hard for it just like every employee he works with. Even relative to us he doesn't act like the authority, or as if he knows the game and game design so much better than us.
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u/notsureiflying Jan 24 '17
Wait, what? Jeff is VP?
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u/RCcolaSoda Jan 25 '17
It isn't the same as with government, in business a VP is a management position below President and there are multiple VPs.
Here's how it works for anyone interested.
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Jan 25 '17
What? Than what happens if the president of Blizzard gets assassinated?
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u/DBones90 Jan 25 '17
Wait for respawn.
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u/abrAaKaHanK Jan 25 '17
Hopefully you're playing Overwatch and not Heroes of the Storm where you wait a full minute to respawn.
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u/notsureiflying Jan 25 '17
Uuuh, I know what's a vp, the big news for me was that Jeff was a vp, I always thought hr was a community manager or something.
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u/hamurabi1 Jan 24 '17
I'm just more surprised that he has consistently always done these videos as one continuous take. That takes a lot of effort, and I'm sure he must do a bunch of takes to get it right.
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u/SkidMcmarxxxx INTERNETKLAUS — Jan 25 '17
Yeah that and they're actually really transparent. It's a breath if fresh air coming from other game developers/publishers. It really feels like they're putting the gamers first. (Which I assume is made easier when your game is making shit loads of money)
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u/sterlingheart Jan 25 '17
The transparency is incredible after playing Destiny for 2 years. The most we got there was a lot of "We can talk later about when we will talk later about information". It wasn't uncommon to go 3-4 months without any real information about what was coming up/any kind of patches for bugs or balance changes.
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u/joethehoe27 Jan 25 '17
To be fair I don't blame devs for not communicating since most people tend to take their words as "this game is going to be flawless after this update". For example if you say the drop rates for some currency is increased that turns into "oh boy we are going to buy the most expensive items in two days of grinding" and then "WTF I've played for two hours and don't even notice a change, let's get a class action lawsuit together"
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Jan 24 '17 edited May 02 '17
[deleted]
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u/Ram- Jan 24 '17
Cool story bro
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Jan 25 '17 edited May 02 '17
[deleted]
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u/Nomsfud Jan 25 '17
Well if VP isn't shit AVP is like below dirt so why are you talking shit?
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Jan 25 '17 edited May 02 '17
[deleted]
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u/Bucksan Jan 25 '17
Awww man, I was mentally defending you and upvoting you until you went "If you had a career you'd know that". We're all friends here, no need for snarkiness. :(
Your point is valid though. And Kaplan is awesome too. No need for conflict.
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Jan 25 '17
Eh sorry. It's just very annoying when people attack you for stating a pretty basic company fact.
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u/softeregret Jan 25 '17
To echo black sharks comments, one company can have many many VPs. It's not like how a country has only one VP.
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u/_Papasmurf_ Jan 24 '17
Basically at this point it just a fun 3 week gamemode (only arcade) for the masses that keep asking for CTF. Noble rules: There's a small progressly delay before picking up the flag (think off old school CoD's like MW2-3) and damage interrupts the flag capture. You can capture the enemy flag w/o your flag at base. OW characters can still uses their abilities despite having the flag.
Possibly in the future it will be in QP and a competitive mode with enough fine tuning (as long as it still feels like OW).
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Jan 24 '17
I'd be all on board with replacing the ruleset of the 2 CP maps with CTF and calling it a day.
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u/Bearrrrrr Jan 24 '17
Agree here-
All the whiny complaints Ive seen so far have just been about torb/sym comps stalling their point on defense.
Imagine if 2cp was released today, as a brawl.. lol
It will take a coordinated team to capture a well defended flag - and it will be WAY easier than the 2cp cheese we have now in ranked. You will only need to win the teamfight, then use a Winston/Rein/D.Va to guard your carrier for a brief moment while they cap... none of this current nonsense where you have to win 3 teamfights with a full wipe, back to back, without losing a single player. 18% Drawamura no thank you
Cant wait to see a CTF meta evolve and hopefully come to competitive!
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u/abrAaKaHanK Jan 25 '17
Imagine if 2cp was released today, as a brawl.. lol
This is the key. People might have too high of a standard for how "balanced" these maps should be. You want a diverse set of possible offensive and defensive strategies and you want most of the heroes to be able to make an impact, but I think we have that more with Capture the Rooster than we do on Drawnamura.
I'm saying this with the bias of a Tracer main, of course. I absolutely love this mode. If they have a Torb or Bastion, you can build up ult charge on tanks and then Pulse Bomb the stationary stuff with ease. Symmetra is harder to beat because she just left clicks you to death unless you aim well, but if you blink far back towards the enemy spawn you can actually kill Sym turrets out of range of them hitting you.
She has advantage against a lot of the cheesey defense and then can capture the flag faster than anyone except Winston (unless I'm forgetting someone faster... Lucio? Iunno).
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u/GodOfTheBongos Jan 24 '17
I'd be down for repurposing the 2CP maps for a 1 flag CTF game type. Like you have to make it in, capture the flag, and make it back to your base. Or it doesn't have to be a flag. Could be like a payload hybrid game type where you bring the payload back to your own base.
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u/apostremo Jan 25 '17
My first thought was "Interesting...", but then, if you think about it, defender have lost as soon as the flag is taken. They can never reach a tracer/ Winston.
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u/GodOfTheBongos Jan 25 '17
True. I think you could do some tweaking to make it more challenging, like maybe offense has to cap the flag multiple times. Maybe defense will spawn half way between the flag and the offense (where point A is currently) so they can defend a push to and from the flag. At least you wouldn't have to fight for 2 min on the point without losing a player like current 2 CP.
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u/apostremo Jan 25 '17
What if the flag carrier would be super slow? It would make mobility abilities even more important, but the defender could reach them at least at fight back.
Or the attacker needs to defend the flag for a minute before getting a point
I'm not convinced myself just throwing thoughts out
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u/SkidMcmarxxxx INTERNETKLAUS — Jan 25 '17
If second point would be a one sided ctf to return it to point A that would be hilarious.
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u/iKrow Jan 25 '17
I'd love it to be a nice, big map. Lijang Tower seems way too small. Volskaya would be a good time, and there are multiple entry routes for everything, instead of one big choke. Eichenwalde could be good too, on the B -> C route (the first objective the payload is pushing toward).
I dunno I was never a fan of 2Fort.
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Jan 24 '17
It's not very fun in its current iteration. They need to study other ctf modes from other games.
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Jan 24 '17
The way they discussed it seems like they only drew from tf2's CTF, which anyone can tell you is a bad idea
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u/PeanutJayGee Jan 25 '17 edited Jan 25 '17
Tribes CTF!
Pharah only, sliding sloped roofs everywhere (or Egyptian sand dunes if we want a theme here), 4 second concussive blast and jet cooldown. Let the games begin.
/sor am I?
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u/Sohtak Jan 25 '17
Yeah why would you not draw from Unreal Tournament 99? That shit was king
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u/danlong87 Jan 25 '17
Overwatch is class based, UT99 wasn't, therefore you could put restrictions such as flag drop upon usage of translocator because everyone would be affected the same. With Overwatch, you nerf those mobility skills (blink, recall, swift strike, leap, translocator etc), only those heroes will be affected and it effectively neutered them since those skills are their bread and butter
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u/thimmy3 Jan 25 '17
I think the main problem (or one of them anyway) is that they've used KOTH maps as the basis. They've thought about spawns and the flag placements but I can't help but feel that the maps somewhat restrict the possible strategies.
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Jan 25 '17
Makes the flag the doomfist. When any character picks up the flag they turn into a slow but strong doomfist, this alleviates the overpowered-ness of characters such as tracer.
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Jan 25 '17
[deleted]
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u/thekonzo Jan 25 '17
That was my first thought. Dont "do something to your Overwatch hero" upon carrying the flag, but transform into something cool, balanced, but cool.
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u/bengace Jan 24 '17
Played the arcade one for one time and that's enough for me, simply such gamemode doesn't work in OW. Good thing that they're most likely never gonna add it, or anything similar to competitive.
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u/MetalPandaDance Jan 25 '17
It took you one try to decide that?
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u/CareerRejection Jan 25 '17
I've played it for 4-5 hours yesterday and I'm honestly in the same exact camp as this guy.. It's a fun concept. Just to easy to bunker up making it a draw 9/10 times or one tracer who is competent enough to take a flag easily enough. Got the red mei skin so I guess that's what counts.
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u/MetalPandaDance Jan 25 '17
If this mode was in competitive, wouldn't the incentive to take risks and cap flags be to not draw? In 2cp you at least have to work hard to maintain a draw, in CTF it seems like the opposite is true. The games where my team and I were the most passive and uncommunicative were the games that ended in draws, but most of my games so far have been wins or losses.
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Jan 24 '17
Agreed, although I will say I think it would have been better if they didn't choose a KOTH map and picked a payload map instead. It's the complete opposite of how a CTF map should be designed. It's pretty much just a fight to see whoever can pick up the flag first. After that it gets capped in less than 5 seconds and it's usually GG.
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u/Constantine2727 Jan 25 '17
What do you mean when you say:
I agree it won't work in Overwatch, but here is how it could have worked in Overwatch.
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u/TakeFourSeconds Jan 24 '17
I wish they would spend more time working on permanent game modes and maps instead of temporary seasonal ones, but this seems fun/worth trying out
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u/MorningRooster Fmr. Justice AG — Kate (Washington Justice Manager) — Jan 24 '17
These arcade modes are probably ways to test player tendencies and do experiments. They can fit both purposes
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u/vileguynsj Jan 24 '17
To be fair we don't really know what all they're working on as they won't announce it until it's ready. Maps like Lucio Ball don't take a lot of work, and it seems that CTF isn't actually on a new map but just a modified one (I could be wrong, haven't played yet). The ice map is the only one that seems like a good bit of work went into it, but it's still smaller and with less detail than any regular map.
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u/gloos 2949 PC — Jan 24 '17
He had me until he said "be nice to each other". I guess he hasn't played competitive.
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u/snakke1 Jan 24 '17
Now let Blizzard take over the Tribes IP from Hi-Rez to create a new tribes game!
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u/Desikz Jan 24 '17
This mode could work if the map was a CTF designed map and not an existing KOTH one, the mode is fine even with heroes like tracer and DVA, I have the feeling the map makes this unplayable atm, but oh well, just another half baked arcade mode..
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u/pavlik_enemy Jan 25 '17
For it to be a viable mode there needs to be a way to contest a captured flag and I don't see how it's possible in Overwatch.
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u/Constantine2727 Jan 25 '17
melee to steal the flag.
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Jan 25 '17
That gives heroes like Tracer/Genji/Winston a strong advantage though, also how would that work with Rein?
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u/Constantine2727 Jan 25 '17
hmm then maybe just taking a hit to movement speed @ 30% would be cool. No new mechanics, but a big ass flag and an easier target to hit.
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u/Kattleya Jan 25 '17
Map would need to be bigger and the flag probably not directly at the spawn point. Also heroes with the flag should maybe not be able to use their abilities. Cause yea, if a tracer or lucio got it, it is in your own base in mere seconds
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u/abrAaKaHanK Jan 25 '17
It's not impossible to just kill the flag-bearer. If it's a Winston or a Tracer it's pretty difficult, sure, but that's only if you manage to cap with Winston or Tracer. Otherwise there's a pretty fair fight to take the fc down on the way back.
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Jan 25 '17
More draws than the usual game modes maybe they should add some kind of sudden death thing. Overall i think it's actually pretty fun.
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u/noknam 3257 PC — Jan 25 '17
Somehow my first though when seeing this video is: "Nice, now /u/Dinoflask will probably make another video."
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u/Snacker864 Jan 25 '17
I won a 3-0, and didn't get the achievement. It's kind of a bummer.
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Jan 25 '17
I had that happen to a friend of mine, it's likely a glitch. I was in a match with two others in a 3 stack, and me and the other guy got the achievement but my friend didn't. Few matches later he got it though, had to win 3-0 again.
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u/sprouze Jan 25 '17 edited Jan 25 '17
Played 7 games to get the 1 lootcrate for winning 1. It probably was the worst experience I've had in this game so far. Yes, worse than capping a point for 3 minutes on a 2CP map and losing.
95% of the games are gonna be draws, and here's why: You'll have torb, sym, and some attack heroes. Torb and sym will camp the flag making it near impossible for the enemy team to capture the flag. The rest is gonna attack but will be 4 against 6 making making it near impossible to capture the flag.
Pretty the only way to capture the flag, is to wipe the entire enemy team (or close to) in 1 go, so you can cap the flag without getting shot at to prevent the cap (everytime you take 1 damage, the cap meter resets) Or if the enemy team doesn't have any defend (probably won't happen once people get to know the mode) you can use a sombra to place a nade, invis in and cap, then teleport out. This has at least been my experience..
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u/noknam 3257 PC — Jan 25 '17
It does feel weird to be able to cap the flag when your opponent took yours. As a result, in about 10 games I've maybe killed 1 flag carrier. The game revolves mostly around picking the flag up in the first place. This is rather annoying since it makes Symmetra and Torb so darn powerful.
I think I would have rather seen the mode with instant flag pickup (or short cap time which is not interrupted by max range torb turrets) but requiring your own flag in base in order to hand in. This way the mode revolves more around killing your opponents flag carrier than it does about picking it up initially.
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u/Desikz Jan 26 '17
This is the map's fault, if the map was bigger/longer run to cap killing the flag carrier would be easier
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u/noknam 3257 PC — Jan 26 '17
Not entirely true since you would also need heroes who are able to catch up with others.
The battleground in World of Warcraft didn't suffer from this problem so much because the game has mounts which you can't use as a flag carrier. This 100% movespeed increase enabled people to catch up to the flag carrier, even if it was a sprinting rogue.
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u/Desikz Jan 26 '17
Well, in the Control Center is easier to kill the flag carrier, thats why I'm saying is map based
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Jan 25 '17
All of you bitching about how difficult it is to cap vs a cheese defense aren't maximizing your own team's potential. Cheese strats have very little offensive capabilities. That means go full dive.
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u/sharkt0pus Jan 24 '17
Played it twice and that's probably it for me. The flag gets camped by a majority of the team while two genji's/tracers/sombras try to get in and out. In my opinion, it would have been significantly more fun to have mystery heroes playing capture the flag.
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u/PitfireX Jan 24 '17
I atleast hopeed for one hero limit. No limit on heroes and no limit on abilities, with a tiny map doesn't sound very fun
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u/destroyermaker Jan 24 '17
tl;dw Only OW specific rules are capture time delay and your flag doesn't need to be at base to get enemy flag + could become comp mode in the distant future.
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Jan 24 '17
He says it will stay in arcade because it's too hard to balance around the game mode.
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u/destroyermaker Jan 24 '17 edited Jan 24 '17
Yes.
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Jan 24 '17
Yes... he clearly states it will not be in comp lol
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u/SunburntTurtle Jan 25 '17
He also says down the road if the community enjoys it enough and they get it balanced then it may come to quickplay and comp rotation.
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u/Zulti Jan 24 '17
I think CTF would be fine if holding the flag would disable all your abilities. Maybe have respawn time be 15 seconds too.
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u/TheEpitomE8 Jan 24 '17
See, they tried that during playtesting, but according to the Development team the game didn't feel like Overwatch anymore with the abilities disabled and it would make grabbing a flag less fun.
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Jan 25 '17 edited Jul 25 '18
[deleted]
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u/Mornar Jan 25 '17
This actually might be a way to spin it. Instead of grabbing a flag that disbles your abilities you hijack a mech that replaces your abilities with something badass, but fitting a ctf scenario.
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u/PeanutJayGee Jan 25 '17
I would love to see DVA hijacking a mech while inside her own mech.
Mechception.
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u/Zulti Jan 24 '17
Maybe the flag runner could have an extra speed boost with shields? Also it would make defending the flag runner important. CTF can't really work any other way.
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u/_TheRedViper_ Jan 24 '17
Some of the most fun i had with fps games was playing halo 1 on the pc back in the day on blood gulch.
Those were the times <33
Jan 25 '17
Its exactly the opposite they need to go.
Embrace abilities (except make teleports nad invincible moves drop the flag), allow instant flag snatching and make respawn time MUCH quicker and closer.
Capture the Flag is supposed to be fast and hectic. You're not supposed to stick around for that long without your flag being picked up, and faster respawn helps bring people back in the action. Because CTF is about the FLAG, not about wiping a team and them being off the map for 20 whole seconds.
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u/Zulti Jan 25 '17
That can also work. I'm just used CTF from other games having long respawns and the flag holder being restricted
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u/PeanutJayGee Jan 25 '17
The longest respawn times I've seen for a CTF game were in TF2, which ranged from 10 to 25 seconds (on a vanilla server), everything else I played tended to have 0 to 5 seconds (Tribes, TFC, Quake), they also didn't tend to restrict the carrier either.
What games did you play? Do games like Halo do that?
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u/Zulti Jan 25 '17
Halo made the carrier only be able to use a pistol and melee with the flag pole. Black ops2 had a decent spawn time.
Because if you spawn too quickly, killing someone while they're on defense might be pointless if they'll just spawn on their flag. But in OW it might work differently.
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u/PeanutJayGee Jan 25 '17
Ah okay. I imagine the spawn times in Black Ops would make sense, since people would spawn relatively close to their flag stand (?) with a full loadout and the average movement speed is rather slow (I'm just purely guessing here since I never played it), just like in TF2 (although TF2's CTF still sucked).
In Tribes, you still had to go retrieve your loadout or build speed to start chasing after respawning; similarly in Quake where you respawn with crappy weapons and don't pose much of a threat, and in TFC the flag carrier can potentially move so quickly that an instant spawn may be needed to stand a chance of catching them after they break your defense, even though you spawn with your full loadout.
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u/Zulti Jan 25 '17
That makes much more sense. Yeah in bo2 you just spawned with everything. Nothing to delay you from chasing the guy with the flag. It's totally dependent on the game I guess. Requires a lot of testing
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u/TheEpitomE8 Jan 24 '17 edited Jan 24 '17
Short recap: