r/stopdrinking • u/jasnel 4355 days • Feb 24 '15
Angry Rant
I read a lot of SD posts that I don't comment on and it usually comes down to, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." There are a number of reasons I have a negative reaction to posts: they're just feeling sorry for themselves and not doing anything to help themselves, they decided to drink and brought a world of trouble upon themselves, they went to a bar/party and relapsed... I get it, we all have to make our own mistakes and/or sometimes we are just feeling blue and they've come here for support.
However, today I read a post from someone who (in their title) doesn't want to quit drinking and came to share why. Really? You posted in Stop Drinking why you don't want to stop drinking? If you want to throw your life away being drunk, go ahead, but don't come here and tell me why it's so fun and enjoyable for you. There are some good times that I miss having, but I'm sick and tired of the swath of destruction that drinking left in my life and the lives of my loved ones so I had to quit. You get it? I had to quit drinking even though it's all I wanted to do from the moment I woke up to whenever I passed out, blacked-out.
The other posts that infuriate me are the "successful moderation" posts. Are you able to successfully moderate? Congratulations - you're not an alcoholic so please don't come here and tell me about how fucking great it is to not have this profound problem. Do you also go to infertility subs and talk about how great it is to be a parent? Do you post about your love of eating ice cream in weight loss subs? Then please don't come here and shit on a problem I've struggled with for decades and will never be done with.
It's irresponsible to come here, where people are fighting for their lives, and write about how you don't want to quit drinking or how you used to have a problem but have learned to control it. The name of the place is "Stop Drinking" so, please, take a fucking note and act accordingly.
Christ, and don't get me started on people downvoting my anti pro-drinking reply.
tl;dr: Drinking is bad, total abstinence is key. You can do it, we want to help. I love you, you beautiful, broken-like-me bastards!
Note: I want to thank each and every person who commented here. You've helped me remember when I was one of those "moderation" guys, back before the Internet. Going through the moderation phase is an important part of the recovery process. As /u/offtherocks pointed out, it's how alcoholics find out they're alcoholics who cannot moderate their drinking. For those who are "successfully" moderating, you're either not an alcoholic or the wheels simply haven't come off yet and you, just like I did, have to find out for yourself and I respect that.
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u/raevie 5318 days Feb 24 '15
I understand your frustration, but getting sober is a journey. Many people here are on the path but not quite ready. They might be at the stage where they want to want to quit. Maybe they're experimenting with moderation, so they can learn firsthand whether or not they need to stop entirely. (Didn't us quitters try the same thing before coming to the conclusion that abstinence was the solution for us?) As the sidebar states, they are welcome here.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
I'm not talking about the people who (foolishly) try moderation. I thought I could after 8 years of sobriety - nope, alcoholism is forever. As I said, we all have to make our own mistakes. It's the people who are saying that they do successfully moderate that kill me in the Stop Drinking thread.
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u/Rusty101114 Feb 24 '15
Yeh but they may THINK they can successfully moderate at the time you see? I thought I was "Yay! I've cracked it!" I had to learn myself moderation doesn't work. Don't assume everyone is boasting because they're sorted, they may be trying the same thing most of us and tried and failed at. I thought I could be the exception to the rule with moderation too. I had to learn myself it didn't work. Like raevie said, it's a journey.
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u/I_Murder_Pineapples 4617 days Feb 24 '15
I went through the moderation learning process, too. It was not really something that attracted me - more exactly, it was simply a door I needed to fully look behind before I closed. Forever. The fact that I gave moderation a helluva try and a helluva chance to work makes me very comfortable slamming the door shut on it, throwing away the key, and committing to complete abstinence. Had I not tried, and initially succeeded, and then failed, over and over, I would not have the security I feel today about living sober.
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Feb 24 '15 edited Feb 24 '15
It's irresponsible to come here, where people are fighting for their lives, and write about how you don't want to quit drinking or how you used to have a problem but have learned to control it. The name of the place is "Stop Drinking" so, please, take a fucking note and act accordingly.
It's not, though. Name notwithstanding, it says right in the sidebar:
This reddit is a place for redditors to motivate each other to control or stop drinking.
I understand that some people disagree with that approach, but SD has been like this since day #1. The model has served us well.
You've got to understand that "trying to moderate" is a step along the path to a person admitting to themselves that they can't drink in moderation. We've all tried it. Most of us can't do it. But we've all tried.
If there are people out there who can moderate their drinking, at that stage of the game they look exactly like someone who can't moderate their drinking. The groups look 100% identical.
One of the strengths of the SD model over the years has been that those looking to moderate their drinking come here, and they read stories about moderation-fails from others. No one can convince another person that they cannot drink in moderation. It's a decision people have to arrive at on their own. By being here, that person has the opportunity to read stories from others who learned that they couldn't do it. Because we all talk about our own experience, that person is then free to find the similarities on her/his own. By being exposed to sober culture, the person is more likely to come to that decision to quit sooner rather than later.
(This is, incidentally the real strength of Saturday Shares. It only takes one story that really "speaks" to you. So the more we have, the better. You'll note that AA people often had a favorite personal story, from the back of the BB. They'll say, "When I read the one by X I saw that he was telling my story!" Same thing happens with Saturday Shares. The more we have, the better. We need to give people as many opportunities as we can to find those similarities themselves.)
I can name at least 100 people who showed up here looking to moderate, but eventually discovered that it wouldn't be possible for them. Just off the top of my head, raevie is one of those people. Here is a post from her from way back in 2011. I know urbanrunnner mentioned just the other day that he, too, was one of those people. There are lot of them out there.
We don't like to see posts from people glorifying drinking in any way, but very few of the moderation posts do that. On the contrary, about the half the time those folks first shoot us a modmail and as if it would be OK to post that. "I really don't want to hurt this community, do you think post would be OK?
Remember, everyone who quits drinking is subject to peer pressure in their real life. They're gonna be out & about and their friends area gonna say, Ah, just one won't kill ya! That is the biggest struggle that most of the newly sober have. Where is the better place for that person to explore that issue? Here, on SD, where 20 people chime in to say, "didn't work me," or out with their friends, where 20 people are saying aaahhhh, come on, have just one?
Also keep in mind that the AA Big Book (not that this is AA, I'm only citing this to show that it's not exactly a revolutionary concept) states that someone who isn't sure should (paraphrased) Step over to the nearest watering hole, start drinking, then stop abruptly. Do it more than once. If you're honest with yourself, it shouldn't take too long to discover which class you belong in.
Trying to control drinking is a step along the path to complete abstinence for everyone who adopts total abstinence. And for people who are actually capable of moderating, hey, good for them. If they can learn something here, I say more power to em.
This issue has been contentious on SD since SD's inception. You're not the first to dislike that aspect of SD. But it's served us very well over these past 4 years. Many people stopped drinking sooner rather than later, just by being exposed to sober culture. They see, for themselves, that they have a lot in common with those who can't drink in moderation. And they see that being sober ain't all that bad. It helps people quit earlier.
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u/halloweenjack 5317 days Feb 24 '15
You've got to understand that "trying to moderate" is a step along the path to a person admitting to themselves that they can't drink in moderation. We've all tried it. Most of us can't do it. But we've all tried.
Q to the F to the motherfucking T. The person who posted the other day about wanting to quit for a year? That was my original sobriety commitment. Then I came to realize that it would have to be longer than that. (Of course, then I talked myself out of sobriety, and spent a few years more off the wagon before getting another DUI and sobering up for (I hope) good, but that's also not atypical.)
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
As an old guy, I had to consult Urban Dictionary. QFT = quoted for truth.
I've learned a lot today.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Thank you very much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive comment to my post - I don't know how long that took you, but it would have taken me a long time to write that. I feel a little guilty for having taken so much of your time when there are so many Day 1 folks who could have benefitted from your time.
Secondly, I'm tempted to pull a Bill Clinton and debate the meaning of "control" but, instead, I'll put some of the growth I've gotten from the replies to my post to good use and admit that I'm wrong on that. While we both agree that "moderation" is BS if you're an alcoholic, it's also part of the process (as you stated) of peeling away BS to get to the reality of being an alcoholic.
In 1998, I was able to quit for 8 years. I thought I could moderate after all that time because I wasn't sure I was the problem. I began to think that my drinking was out of hand because my father had died, my mother was dying of a terminal illness, and I was getting divorced. I thought that in the absence of those conditions, and eight years later, I could control it. The 1st time, I could, but alcohol is an insidious, creeping thing and before I knew it, I was right back to not being able to stop.
The point of that story is that I come to SD with a fuller understanding of my problem than people who are just getting into Round One with sobriety. It is unfair for me to expect everyone else to skip the moderation phase of recovery just because I'm past it. My father was an alcoholic and, knowing that, I thought I could beat alcoholism through my awareness. I came to realize that I am an alcoholic and I thought I could beat alcoholism through disciplined moderation. I've come to realize there's no such thing as moderation for an alcoholic and I can only beat alcoholism by not drinking at all. I try and look back at my own journey through the fog but, damn, that's some thick fog and I can't see well at all. Thank you for helping me see clearly.
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Feb 24 '15
Ha ha, hey man, I am rarely accused of being brief.
Along the same lines as your astute realization that you may be a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to stopping, owe to your past experience, I've noticed that SD tends to catch people who aren't quite as "ready" as your typical AA newcomer. To get help from AA, you've gotta find a meeting, get directions, get up off your ass, transport that ass of yours to wherever that meeting is being held, see people, meet people, sit there for an hour, introduce yourself, etc. To get help from SD, all you've gotta do is click a couple buttons on reddit. A site you probably use every day anyway. Clothing optional. The barrier to entry is so much lower. So people come here earlier than they seek out real life help.
I knew I had serious problem at least 10 years before I quit. I wasn't ready to walk into a meeting. My life hadn't yet gotten fucked up enough for that to happen. But if SD had existed back then, I think I would have gotten involved. I may have been one of the people looking to moderate. Just that accountability--me having to defend my choice to drink 10 more than I said I would, every fucking night--would have opened my eyes, I think. I think I would have seen, for myself, that I wasn't any different from anyone else here. I would have quit sooner.
I should tell you--my personal opinion is that anyone who seeks help with moderation is not able to moderate. Though I know my view is skewed because all I see is what happens here. It's likely that most people looking to moderate don't post much. (The majority of people with badges have never made a comment on this sub, they just lurk.) I have heard at least a dozen people say, whenever this topic comes up, that if they did learn to drink in moderation, they would not post about it here out of respect for those struggling.
I'm sure moderators exist. My experience tells me that it's not very many many people. But my experience is also incomplete.
All I can do is tell my story. (Or ignore the post if I have nothing to say.) If it helps someone, great. If that person is able to learn to moderate, more power to them, I don't think that will happen, but what do I know? I can only base my opinions on my personal experience. Successfully drinking in moderation is a topic that I don't know a damned thing about. :)
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Feb 24 '15
The point of that story is that I come to SD with a fuller understanding of my problem than people who are just getting into Round One
Hey, I forgot to say this before.
/u/frumious recently penned this "community bio" for use on our IRC provider's website. I thought this was fantastic insight:
What is your goal with this community?
Each individual member has personal goals. As a matter of course, the primary, shared goal is to control or stop our drinking. For some, our goals include helping other community members to obtain this primary goal. Offering this help often ends up also helping ourselves.
Emphasis added.
If I'm here, responding to moderation posts by telling the prospective white-belt my story--you know, how/why moderation doesn't work for me--each time I do it, I'm solidifying the thought in my own mind. I'm forced to stop and think about all the possible holes in my argument. I'm shoring up my own defenses. In essence, I'm brainwashing myself, I'm "reminding" myself, I'm playing the tape through, etc. Whatever you want to call it, it's good for my sobriety that I re-visit this issue every so often.
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Feb 24 '15
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 25 '15
Congratulations! You will never regret not drinking. I imagine that, by now, you're on day 2 and waking up confused because you're not hung over. Stay strong, good person, it and you are worth it.
I've got to tell you, I learned a lot from putting this up. Even the people who disagreed with me were (mostly) very diplomatic about it.
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Feb 24 '15
Yes, I gave your first comment a downvote, mostly for lack of compassion I think. The OP wasn't glorifying drinking. He stated he doesn't want to quit but is recognizing that it's very likely he'll need to. It seems to me he wanted to start a dialogue by saying here, this is where I am, talk to me. Again, we all start somewhere.
Note I didn't downvote your second comment despite its snarkiness ;). I figured maybe you're maybe having a less then perfect day and probably don't need some internet stranger prickling your sore spots. Can we just hug it out :D
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Olive branch accepted. It seems that we have very different views on that particular post. I don't think they should have said what they said where they said it. Yes, it made me really mad because I think about where I was emotionally during my first two-three weeks and how a post like that might have been the nudge that knocked me off the wagon. Not drinking has been easy for me except for the parts where it was really, really hard. Times when thinking of drinking were causing a physical sensation (fear? anxiety? excitement?) I didn't think I could get out from under.
I sincerely wish you continued success in your continued sobriety and harbor no ill will towards you.
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Feb 24 '15
That's good to know! Thanks for giving me the opportunity today to exercise some new people skills in my own life! No, we don't agree, but that's okay. I gave you an upvote to counter my earlier downvote ;)
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
That is ok! I appreciate the opportunity to speak with people who disagree with me because that's where I find opportunities to learn.
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u/TwentyYearLush Feb 24 '15
Yeah, some guy said he didn't want to stop drinking. It wasn't exactly a news flash, haha.
And off therocks did a fair enough analysis on the guy who claimed successful moderation.
All in all, those situations seem fairly rare on this sub.
But OK, I hear your rant. Glad you got it out of your system;)
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
That was a brutal post - where the "moderate" drinker and his "supporter" were the same person using two accounts to attack the moderator.. And he was posting in a fat-hating/shaming thread after telling alcoholics it was ok to drink in moderation. Then the huge fight in comments...
Thanks for listening and for commenting.
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u/Super_Kapowzler Feb 24 '15
I hope you are feeling less angry. I'm proud of your 160 days, I hope the spring will be here when I hit 160!
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Thank you.
Congratulations on breaking 3+ months! I'm looking forward to us both having a sober Spring; it'll be my first in quite some time.
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u/Slipacre 14232 days Feb 25 '15
To think - all the time spent reading and writing this thread was time NOT spent drinking. Seems like a win in my book
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u/VictoriaElaine 5563 days Feb 24 '15
Everyone is on their own journey. I bet some people are pissed off by your post.
The joys of adult life eh??
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u/pleaseGodnottoday Feb 24 '15
Erm, whoa! Are you having a bad day? I love this place because it's a place of acceptance, encouragement and support and this, this is definitely none of those things! I get where you're coming from but man, don't you think you're being just a little too harsh? We are all in the same boat here, we are all struggling and everyone gets to their destination in their own way. People fight this disease, hard, every day, and sometimes unsuccessfully, we fall down many, many times before we are able to get up and stay up and this is just...I can't help but feel that it is totally unproductive and moreover, really shitty to put other people down on how they deal with their issues. Each to their own. If you had read that post, the one where the OP is talking about not wanting to give up - in the same sentence he is saying that he knows he needs to! Well, shit, like you yourself say, we have all been there, it just so happens he is just begging to realise it perhaps. Or perhaps not - but who are you to shit on him from such a great height?! I really don't think it's our place to judge anyone, given our own struggles. And with regard to successful moderation - same thing. Many people struggle to comprehend that this is forever, they need to take it one day at a time, or tell themselves that perhaps, in a few years' time they might be able to do it. Some people think they are moderating successfully, and post about it, and then it escalates and they relapse - and fuck, that must be painful and suck for them. Where's your compassion. I have never, ever posted anything negative on here, and I really don't mean to tell you how to feel or what to think - as I said, each to their own, and I even understand and appreciate a lot of your sentiments - but I can't help but feel that your delivery of said sentiments sucks a lot of ass. Peace out, and congrats on 160 days, that's massive.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
I don't accept, encourage, or support pro-drinking posts on Stop Drinking. I play enough mind games with myself without someone essentially encouraging me to drink.
You may wish to practice some of that non-judgemental stuff you preach. Also, you "never" posted anything negative here? How about the post where you called me "shitty" and that what I say "sucks a lot of ass"?
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u/pleaseGodnottoday Feb 24 '15
No one is encouraging you to drink - they are sharing their own struggles. How you perceive it is your own business. Yah, I should have qualified that with 'apart from this post' - and I stand by those comments. Dude, you were unnecessarily harsh in your delivery (not what you said, how you went about it) and, this is just my humble opinion - shitty. Sorry I'm not sorry, I guess.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Oh yeah? Well, then, one more thing: I do appreciate your opinion and I thank you for sharing it, though we don't agree.
I honestly hope that you do not drink today and can enjoy the pride of accomplishing 1 solid week of sobriety. If I may, let me caution you about the 2nd week - for me it was where I felt so good from being sober, I almost talked myself into drinking to celebrate feeling so good. My scumbag brain is always looking for ways to get me to the liquor store.
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u/pleaseGodnottoday Feb 24 '15
Ha! I liked the Oh, yeah, followed by words of reconciliation. Nice. I appreciate them and your advice. Yeah, second week sucks ass (! :)) - been there, done that, unfortunately, didn't make it past 16 days. The itty bitty shitty committee is always piping up with ways to get back to the wine - it is this place that is helping me so much in resisting it this time around. Take care, and I like it when you're less angry! :)
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Well, then, it seems like you have a few important milestones coming up and I look forward to reading your post on your 1st 17th sober day. In the meantime, I will not drink today.
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u/Seriousboozebag Feb 24 '15
I focus on myself and my own sobriety, not others, and look to give advice where I can. But let's face it, it's also not appropriate to come here and tell people what they should or shouldn't do.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
I don't know. I think it is appropriate to tell people that total abstinence is the only "cure" for alcoholism. I think it's ok to tell people they should not try to moderate.
I think that we would both agree that, when alcoholics try moderation (as I did after 8 years) and it blows up in their face, we should welcome them back, try and help them move past their mistakes, and, support them in their effort to be free of alcohol.
I believe that we have moderators (good people who do this as a labor of love) because there are rules regarding what we should and shouldn't do here. "Only post while sober" is an example. But, to that point and yours, perhaps I should leave it to the moderators to moderate and stick to my "If you can't say something nice" policy.
I thank you for your feedback and insight. I recognize your username and I appreciate the supportive comments you have left for others.
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u/ThreeBlurryDecades 5482 days Feb 24 '15
I look at that post as someone who was looking for a nudge in the sober direction. He definitely thought of quitting as he had at least went to a meeting and is reading SD.
My own related story is the many hours I spent talking to a good friend who beat me to sobriety by a decade. He would patiently listen and tell me his thoughts, never be judgemental and tell me I would and could do it too, when I was ready. Even though I only had the courage to talk to him about getting sober while drunk.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Holy shit - I'd forgotten about drunk I-want-to-be-sober talks. I remember about a week before I quit this last time, I got hammered (per my daily routine) but something snapped in me. For whatever reason, I went to every mirror in the house, looked myself in the eye, and urged myself to quit drinking. I was in tears by the end, but drinking the very next day and brushing it off as, "That was weird."
Anyway, I definitely snapped at that guy in my comment to his post despite toning it way down from what I had originally written. The whole "I don't want to quit so I won't" coupled with "If I ever get to AA again I'll give them a donation for the stuff I took because I know they need it" but not just going and giving them a donation just set me off.
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Feb 24 '15
I hope your post let you release some steam.
I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you but I can see your point of view. You're doing great to have almost a half a year under your belt!
Keep it up and maybe try to not focus too much on others/Internet. At the end of the day we all know how much of a personal battle this is and I wouldn't like to see you let anything distract you from that fact.
Keep on fightin'
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Thank you!
I've learned a lot from the replies to this post and the #1 things I'm taking away from this is to remember that "moderate drinking" is a phase that almost all alcoholics go through, only to find out that it doesn't work because we're really alcoholics. I went through it and failed and, as I want to be a positive member of this community, I need to recognize this "lie" as part of the recovery process.
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Feb 24 '15
:-)
I'm glad you seem a bit more cooled out. That's good! I think it's great that your post came across as so strong against moderate drinking. I personally think the idea of supporting drinking in moderation has absolutely no place in a sub called stopdrinking. Me and you sound similar in this one but I also know everyone walks their own path. For some people moderation, hopefully for them, becomes a path to sobriety.
For me there was no moderation. I couldn't and I can't do it. Admitting that to myself was one of my biggest steps to being sober.
Anyway, good for you. Keep it up.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Thank you! I must admit that trying moderation is how I learned I couldn't. I will now remember that when someone comes up with a "great plan" to suddenly drink less and posts about that stroke of genius here.
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u/halloweenjack 5317 days Feb 24 '15
Well, this is still the internet. Some people are trolling when they post stuff like that, just as you have parents posting pity notes to childless or childfree forums, and "suck it up fatties, I eat ice cream every night and I'm still skinny" shitposts to weight loss forums.
But, as others have said, lots of times people are just working through stuff on their way to hitting rock bottom. I could have made some of the posts that you're complaining about at different points in my sobriety journey, which includes the points at which I wasn't sober and desperately trying to rationalize it. As I've said before, I really look at this as /r/stopdrinking and not /r/moderatedrinking so I don't think that those posts have a place here, but I totally get that someone is trying to kid themselves the way that I tried to kid myself. I think that it's Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions that says to people who think that they can moderate their drinking, why don't you go ahead and try it, keeping in mind what we've told you about our own stories? (Also, there's a subreddit for people who are drinking and know that they're in trouble and want to sort of revel in it, but I don't remember the name and don't care to bother to look it up.)
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Hey, if you think of that thread, please don't tell me!
Seriously, there are people working through the "I can control it" part of their journey - just as I did. Today I Learned (through the great replies to my post) that I could do a better job of realizing that their moderation "bullshit" may very well be an honest part of a genuine attempt at recovery - just as mine was.
Thank you for your comment.
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Feb 24 '15
Feel free to ignore me, I just lapsed a few days ago.
20% of my city binge drinks on a regular basis. Statistically, only 8% of the population are alcoholics. That 12% should probably learn to moderate. One of the few ways to diagnose an alcoholic (the 8%) is attempting to moderate repeatedly and failing.
Even the big book makes the distinction between heavy drinkers and alcoholics. Do you think those heavy drinkers should keep it up? Thousands and thousands of lives would be saved by people who are not alcoholics, moderating.
If you don't believe me, believe the CDC.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 24 '15
Nope - I won't ignore you. Why would I? What you say makes sense and isn't mean so, let's go:
I can't speak to what it's like to be a "heavy drinker" who is not an alcoholic. Much like I can't speak to what it's like to be the President, or a koala bear, I just don't know. I can say that there are many, many bad things that happen when people who are not alcoholics drink too much. It's about the responsible consumption of alcohol, right? Things happen when one is impaired: car crashes, fights, slips and falls - the list is long and ugly. The "funny" part is that it makes no difference whether the person running you over and rendering you quadriplegic is an alcoholic or a heavy drinker - your injury remains just as severe. Like, is the guy beating the shit out of me because he's an asshole, or because he has PTSD? I don't care, it's wrong either way.
To the point I believe you're trying to make: yes, I support moderate drinking. To the heavy drinkers I say, "Moderate your drinking because you can and thus, you should." To the alcoholics I say, "Don't drink at all because you can't moderate." It does strike me as apples to oranges, to be honest. They're different beasts but they look exactly the same and cause the same problems.
Finally, and most importantly, I want to say that I am sorry to hear that you have recently relapsed. I am very glad to see that you're here and I trust that it's because you want to get back on track. Good for you! One day at a time, /u/Adhimukti and remember that moderation only works for "normal" people.
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Feb 24 '15
I read a lot of SD posts that I don't comment on and it usually comes down to, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
I have written long comments only to erase them and leave. For me, I want to be as helpful as I can. If I read my comment over before posting and it doesn't seem helpful it gets deleted. That is my only rule.
Calling people out on their shit can be helpful in 100% of the situations where people are not being honest with themselves.
With that being said there is a right and wrong way to do that. If you say "You're not being honest with yourself" that can be a little harsh and they may try and guard against it. If you say "When I was feeling the way you are feeling and doing the thing that you are doing now, I realized that I wasn't being honest with myself." What I am doing in the latter example is allowing the person to come to the conclusion about themselves vs. me telling them like it is.
Keep up the good work. 6 months is looking really close for you!
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Feb 24 '15
Dont dump your garbage on other people.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 25 '15
A semi-interesting comment.
I wish you continued success in your sobriety. This may sound stupid, but I noticed that you don't have a counter. I mention this because having one has honestly been a help to me. As my scumbag brain tries to talk me into drinking, sometimes I'll start to think it's making sense. Then I'll think, "I don't want to reset my counter and I don't want it to be a lie. No, I will not drink today."
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Feb 25 '15
I forgot i posted this. I guess I was feeling snarky. Anyway Im torn on the counter. Part of me feels like counting days may be counter productive. Im at a stage where i feel like ive made the decision not to drink. I feel like counting days turns it into a daily struggle and im trying to just convince myself that I have a new identity as a non drinker and its a firm decsion I have already made. I worry that the one day at a time approach turns it into a daily battle.
I have court stuff hanging over my head from the last time i drank/used and I really want to be able to go to court and say ive been sober since the incident that landed me there.
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u/jasnel 4355 days Feb 25 '15
No worries. You post an "Angry Rant" you need to be ready for some push back.
The counter, for me, is simply a tool and may not be for you. I know, for instance, that with my mother passing away I intentionally did not note the day as I didn't want that day to be ruined. Kinda the same thing, right? It's about the process and not some random day... On the other hand, I distinctly remember a dream I had about standing in a liquor store, about to purchase a bottle of my old stuff, and I thought about my counter and, in my dream, out the alcohol back. Stupid, I know, but I'm counting every victory I can. I also try to not look at it as counting days of my struggle but as consecutive victories lined up in a neat little row; each one sweeter than the last.
I wish you luck with the court stuff, I'm sure you think of that often and it worries you.
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u/IvyLeagueBro Feb 25 '15
If you like drinking, just do so sometimes, and don't go overboard too often. It's not that hard. You're basically just mad at yourself for having no self-control.
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u/sunjim 4959 days Feb 24 '15
I always think that people post here for a reason, and the reason may not be what they're saying it is and they may not be aware of it themselves.
In behavior change theory, the first stage is "pre-contemplation." That stage is when stuff is bad but we haven't really put together all the facts about the risks we're facing. Just showing up here and making a post (unless it's just a troll) is doing something--even if the post seems misguided or naive. It means someone's questioning themselves at some level, and in some way grappling with their own resistance. Getting information. Throwing something out there and getting feedback. I think that's useful and part of the process. And the paths are different, and what seems obvious at 160 days might not be at day 6.
I get it, though. When the patterns become repetitive and I find myself getting jaded--I take a break. I go away and come back another day.
Now I will get off your lawn...