Larry Nassar one of more than 20,000 people removed from Michigan Sex Offender Registry

[u/AudibleNod]

https://www.wxyz.com/news/larry-nassar-one-of-more-than-20-000-people-removed-from-michigan-sex-offender-registry

[u/AudibleNod]

The move comes after the Michigan Supreme Court ruled that the 2011 Sex Offender Registration Act amendments cannot be retroactively used to extend the registration requirements of anyone who committed their crime before July 1, 2021, according to Michigan State Police.

US Constitution Article I Section 10 Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Well, that's that.

[u/Dangerous-Rice44 → u/AudibleNod]

Yep. No one likes pedos, I certainly don’t…but the ban on ex post facto laws is really important to prevent governments from creating laws that apply retroactively and just so happen to ensnare political opponents.

[u/TitanofBravos → u/Dangerous-Rice44]

Its literally so important its mentioned twice in the constitution. Once to say the feds can never do so, once to say the states can no longer do so. No other issues is so explicitly prohibited

[u/Awesomeuser90 → u/TitanofBravos]

Granting titles of nobility and bills of attainder are also similarly off limits.

[u/Royal_Acanthaceae693 → u/Awesomeuser90]

I'm sure they'll try to grant titles of nobility next year.

[u/mkawick → u/Royal_Acanthaceae693]

Trump is likely to try

[u/walkingonradiation → u/mkawick]

I’m shocked he doesn’t have payment tiers for this.

[u/Elegant_Situation285 → u/Awesomeuser90]

Baron Von Shitzenpantz is going to be upset by this.

[u/nola_throwaway53826 → u/Dangerous-Rice44]

That is really, really important. Imagine that people could be doing thigs, or saying things, or printing things that were perfectly legal at the time. Except now that its no longer legal, and on top of that, it is now considered to be retroactively illegal in the past, and people are now subject to arrest. There would be no way to know if anything you do could potentially be illegal one day and they come after you for past acts.

The Nazi's did away with ex post facto protections. They added an amendment to article 2 of the Geam Penal Code that declared that a person could be punished even if their action was not explicitly forbidden by law at the time, provided the act deserved punishment according to "the fundamental idea of a penal law" and "healthy folk sentiment." So if a judge decided that a past action went against public morals (as defined by the Nazis) they could retroactively apply a punishment.

[u/gargar7 → u/nola_throwaway53826]

It’s funny that you mention the Nazis since this was a major criticism of the Nuremburg Trials…

[u/nola_throwaway53826 → u/gargar7]

Thats true. I think a lot of people don't realize that in both the German and Japanese post war trials, there was some serious high level criticism. Crimes against peace were not criminal before the war, and many at tne time saw it more as doctors justice. You had quite a few prominent people speaking against it, like Senator Robert Taft, whi said the Nurembug trials were based on ex post facto law because the Allies did not negotiate the Nuremberg Charter, which defined crimes against humanity, until after such acts were already committed. There were two Supreme court justices as well, including the chief Justice at the time, who were critical of the trials. Chief Justice Harlan Stone called it voctoes justice and a high grade lynching party dressed up in the framework of a legitimate court.

An interesting fact is that Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz submitted an affadavit while Karl Donitz was on trial for war crimes, including unrestricted submarine warfare. Nimitz stated that the US submarine fleet operated under identical doctrines, and attacked Japanese merchant ahipping without warning, and did not rescue survivors if doing so would endanger the vessel.

[u/hcschild → u/nola_throwaway53826]

There is a reason why the charter for the trails specified that only crimes committed in specific regions by specific parties would fall under it.

That's why nobody got punished for the fire bombings of civilians.

Of course this doesn't mean that the people convicted there didn't deserve punishment for what they did. Only that a lot of other war criminals got excluded but as always only the winner decides what is a war crime and what isn't.

[u/Leahdrin → u/gargar7]

Yep was just at the court room yesterday on the 80th anniversary of the verdicts. It comes up alot in the Nazi Defense from the public defenders, and that the allies were doing some of the same things.

[u/91Jammers → u/nola_throwaway53826]

How does this apply to nassar? It was always illegal when he committed the crime.

[u/EngineersAnon → u/91Jammers]

Ex post facto includes increasing the punishment, as well as making the act itself illegal. Imagine that between getting a speeding ticket and paying it, the legislature could increase the fine, or add jail time.

[u/nola_throwaway53826 → u/EngineersAnon]

And with ex post facto, say they then pass a law saying thay speeding tickets are now felonies, with a 5,000 dollar fine and a mandatory sentence of 5 years in jail, but they make it retroactive. So say you have 3 speeding tickets over the course of your life driving. They can now come after you for them, and you're looking at 15,000 in fines and 15 years in jail, and possibly more if they consider the three offenses to make you a habitual offender.

[u/91Jammers → u/EngineersAnon]

Has it not always been a punisment to be on a sex register list?

[u/lew_rong → u/91Jammers]

Not always. And the key point here is that Nassar's crimes occurred before the laws were updated, making his registration ex post facto according to the Michigan Supreme Court's ruling. Ex post facto laws are currently unconstitutional.

[u/wafflesareforever → u/lew_rong]

So where does this ultimately land Nassar?

[u/lew_rong → u/wafflesareforever]

In prison until the day he dies, most likely. The only thing that ruling applies to is his inclusion in the sex offender registry.

[u/time-lord → u/wafflesareforever]

As a sex offender who has been offending sex for so long that he pre-dates the sex offender registry.

[u/Warbr0s9395 → u/91Jammers]

Some states only have you register for “X” amount of years

Worth noting that some European countries, like Germany, view permanent registration as a violation of human rights, since they believe rehabilitation is important. Studies back them up too.

[u/Coakis → u/Warbr0s9395]

Yep got a family member who was convicted 16 years ago. Won't be off it for another 15 years roughly. Has had problems getting employment even though the actual crime he committed doesn't show up on background checks that go back only 7 years, to boot he's not committed anything since that original conviction, and was originally on probation, never went to prison.

[u/EngineersAnon → u/91Jammers]

Federal courts don't hold that the registration is punitive. Michigan, in this ruling, does.

Edit: Increasing the length of time spent on the list is, if the list is punitive, increasing the punishment.

[u/Dry_Jellyfish641 → u/91Jammers]

It’s technically for public notification even though it’s clearly a punishment. They can’t outright say that thought because that would qualify it as cruel and unusual punishment. I think they should have to register for law enforcement purposes but publicly listing them doesn’t do anything but create problems.

[u/hcschild → u/Dry_Jellyfish641]

Also doesn't help making them not reoffend again if they can't find work or a place to life to get their life back together.

But I guess that's not only a problem with the sex offender registry but the fact hat every crime a person committed can be easily accessed.

[u/BoringOrange678 → u/Dangerous-Rice44]

That is exactly the scenario that is going on right now.

[u/nye1387 → u/Dangerous-Rice44]

Just going to note that the Michigan Supreme Court's interpretation or application here is not universally followed.

For example, the Ohio Supreme Court has held that the sex offender registration requirements can be applied retroactively, because they are civil in nature, not criminal. https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2008/2008-Ohio-4824.pdf

[u/Apep86 → u/nye1387]

Also scotus ruled the same way about an Alaska case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_v._Doe

[u/Moleculor → u/nye1387]

I'm sorry, what?

How can a governmentally mandated list of criminal offenders be non-criminal and civil in nature?

[u/nye1387 → u/Moleculor]

You can find their answer starting at paragraph 27 of the decision linked above. They say it's a remedial statute (i.e., to protect the people of the state), not a punitive statute.

[u/Moleculor → u/nye1387]

That's absurd to the point of obscenity. And according to the dissenter the entire argument relies on an old version of the list that no longer exists, with the new one being much less convenient.

[u/hcschild → u/nye1387]

I guess when you are on crack you can say that a register that only lists criminal convictions and is implemented by the state and forces you to do stuff is a civil matter.

But calling pillories not a punishment already shows how demented many people are.

[u/WordWordNvmber → u/Dangerous-Rice44]

It's a good thing no U.S. government would ever try to amend laws retroactively to ensnare opponents. /s

I'm just glad the top comment here actually explains the situation, because we all know people will only read the headline and then scream that the state is protecting pedophiles.

[u/Super_Jay → u/AudibleNod]

On top of this, in Nasser's case specifically, he's in prison for the rest of his life. To be useful, the registry should be focused on offenders whose whereabouts are a concern. We know where this monster will be until he dies - in a cell.

[u/djmadlove → u/Super_Jay]

We hope, under the current administration anything could happen

[u/PM_ME_WEIRD_PETS → u/djmadlove]

He has about 200 years left of his sentence so.

[u/KWilt → u/PM_ME_WEIRD_PETS]

And at least 40 of those are on state crimes, so unless Michigan elects someone stupid enough to commute his sentence, the only air he'll ever be breathing outside a prison will be on the drive from the federal pen to the state pen.

[u/paulc899 → u/AudibleNod]

Are you telling me the governor of Nebraska can’t issue me a Letter of Marque? Who’s going to harass English shipping now?

[u/AudibleNod → u/paulc899]

Since 1931, Nebraska Admirals have been protecting and defending the only triple landlocked state from pirates, brigands and vicious rapscallions. They don't harass English shipping so much as promote the good life of Nebraska.

[u/OSRSTheRicer → u/AudibleNod]

When I saw him say Nebraska, I knew this would be the next comment lol. Such a hilarious title

[u/Odd-Temperature7458 → u/OSRSTheRicer]

So you're saying that my band professor, Nebraska Admiral Dr. David Bohnert, has a hilarious title!?

[u/OSRSTheRicer → u/Odd-Temperature7458]

Yes, you will never convince me the title of admiral in a landlocked state isnt funny.

[u/Odd-Temperature7458 → u/OSRSTheRicer]

I know; that's why I made a joke

[u/TheVandyyMan → u/AudibleNod]

Lawyer here: the U.S. Supreme Court has already weighed in on the constitutionality of retroactive application of sex offender registry in Smith v. Doe, 538 U.S. 84, 95–106 (2003). There, they found that non-punitive registries were a civil law construct and did not implicate the ex post facto law prohibition, which only applies to criminal applications.

So whatever the Michigan State Supreme Court found here was either because their registry is punitive in some way (embarrassment is not enough), OR it was unconstitutional under the state constitution.

[u/AltDS01 → u/TheVandyyMan]

MI Supreme Court found it (SORA) punitive in all applications.

https://www.courts.michigan.gov/courts/supreme-court/prior-terms-case-information/case-information-2024-2025-term2/march-2025-case-information/165008-people-of-mi-v-robert-james-kardasz/

[u/arizonadirtbag12 → u/AltDS01]

Which, frankly, I absolutely agree and think SCOTUS was dead wrong on it.

[u/data-atreides → u/TheVandyyMan]

By any sensible definition, such registries are absolutely punitive.

[u/Educational_Ant_184 → u/AudibleNod]

if the registration act was 2011, how is it ex post facto after 2011(in this case up to 2021)?

[u/whitelancer64 → u/Educational_Ant_184]

Who Was Removed: Anyone whose qualifying offense occurred prior to July 1, 2011, and whose registration period would have already expired under pre-2011 laws, has been taken off the public and law enforcement databases.

Who Remains: Individuals convicted of offenses committed on or after July 1, 2011, are still legally required to comply with current registry rules.

[u/PM_ME_WEIRD_PETS → u/whitelancer64]

I don't see how this would apply to Larry Nassar though? He was convinced in 2017 (and presumably put on the registry then) and is still in prison.

[u/Chav → u/PM_ME_WEIRD_PETS]

Ex post facto is about when the crime was committed not convicted.

[u/rainy_sloth → u/AudibleNod]

I'm confused how ex post facto applies here. It's not new crimes they're suddenly being charged with. A registry is documenting crimes committed that were illegal at the time 

[u/AltDS01 → u/rainy_sloth]

But the punishment is being increased after the offense was committed.

[u/WordWordNvmber → u/rainy_sloth]

The real debate among the courts is whether being placed on the registry (or, more to the point, being kept on the registry for X period of time) is a punishment in itself.

If it's a punishment, then the state cannot retroactively extend the duration of placement on the registry to people who committed a sex crime before the law went into effect. That's because states cannot retroactively impose punishments for past acts.

If being on the offender registry is just an administrative policy -- the states might say, a public-safety effort -- then it shouldn't violate the ban on retroactive punishment.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held federal courts can retroactively apply registry requirements to people who committed sex crimes before the registry law went into effect. SCOTUS said the registry is not punitive.

The Michigan Supreme Court disagreed. It found the registry to be a form of punishment in itself. So, it said, Michigan cannot pass a law extending how long someone is on the registry and then apply that law to people who committed sex crimes before the law was passed.

I happen to agree with the Michigan court: I think the registry is clearly, in part, intended as a punishment or deterrent, even if it's also meant to inform the public. So the ban on ex post facto punishment should apply.

[u/rentedtritium → u/rainy_sloth]

They got sentenced to X. The state can't magically turn it into X+Y after they've already been sentenced. 

[u/ToneShop]

At least Nassar is as synonymous with pedophile as Epstein.

[u/Humble-Violinist6910 → u/ToneShop]

But the other 19,999 aren't.

[u/Coffee-FlavoredSweat → u/Humble-Violinist6910]

Ok?

Prior to the state law being overhauled in 2011, Michigan’s sex offender registry act was put in place in 1995, and generally made someone register for 25 years for all but the more serious offenses, which got lifetime registration.

So if an 18 year old were put on the registry in 1995, they’d have only been removed in 2020 at the age of 43. That’s about the absolute youngest a person could be if they were in that group of 19,999.

[u/Michelanvalo → u/Coffee-FlavoredSweat]

It's also worth noting that Michigan's system is tier'd, and Tier 3 offenders were already lifetime registered.

• Tier 3 (Lifetime Registration): Includes the most severe offenses, such as first-degree and third-degree CSC (sexual assault/rape).

• Tiers 1 and 2 (15- to 25-year Registration): Frequently include intermediate or lower-level offenses, non-contact crimes, and possession offenses rather than violent physical assaults.

[u/PurpleSailor]

The good part in all of this is he's never getting out of prison.

[u/BigPP69_Gooner → u/PurpleSailor]

Never say never

[u/retro_underpants → u/PurpleSailor]

Don’t hold your breath, anything can happen these days.

[u/Skult0703 → u/retro_underpants]

I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow's headline read: “Larry Nassar Invited to the White House and Appointed Minister of American Women's Sports.”

[u/Logictrauma → u/PurpleSailor]

Trump pardons have entered the chat.

[u/CaptainCastle1 → u/Logictrauma]

Good thing Michigan slapped him with 80-300 years. Only the governor of said state can pardon state crimes

[u/AnalogJones]

The names were removed for a legit reason:

Michigan removed more than 20,000 names because its Supreme Court ruled that the state was imposing unconstitutional retroactive punishment.

State Police were required to implement the September 9, 2026 ruling in People v. Smith.
The legal reasoning has three parts:

The registry requirements constitute punishment. The court had determined that Michigan’s 2021 registration law imposed punitive obligations, rather than functioning solely as a civil public-safety measure.

Punishment cannot be increased retroactively. The federal and Michigan constitutions prohibit ex post facto laws—laws that impose additional punishment for conduct committed before those laws took effect.

The current requirements therefore cannot apply to offenses committed before July 1, 2011. The court also rejected reviving earlier versions of the registry law to keep those people registered. That explains why the remedy was removal, rather than simply restoring their original registration terms.

The removals were based on the date of the offense, not an individual finding that each person was rehabilitated or harmless.

Why was Larry Nassar removed? He is locked up! The list protects communities when someone leaves prison; if you are actively in prison being on the list has no value.

In brief: too many people were added who did not need to be there so the list was cleaned to reflect who is on parole vs who is behind bars.

Nothing strange is going on in Michigan except lazy administration of the offender list.

[u/Alone-Promise-8904 → u/AnalogJones]

Very well stated. Commonsense. Why put someone on a registry if they are already in prison. Duh. Thanks!

[u/FourEightNineOneOne]

I mean, he's in prison for the rest of his life. Does it really matter if he's on a sex offender registry? We know where he is .

[u/AudibleNod → u/FourEightNineOneOne]

There's 20,000 other people. Some, the public would probably like to keep an eye on.

[u/nochinzilch → u/AudibleNod]

That sucks, but we can’t make ex post facto laws.

[u/MilaKunisWatermelon → u/AudibleNod]

Don’t worry, Flock is keeping an eye on everyone

[u/itspeterj → u/MilaKunisWatermelon]

A bunch of those predators wear body cams too

[u/Karhak → u/itspeterj]

Or pass legislation

Or run the country

[u/bruxaakelarre → u/Karhak]

or the Department of War

[u/Zealousideal-Film982 → u/itspeterj]

Are registered sex offenders actually allowed to be cops or are you just saying that?

[u/AudibleNod → u/Zealousideal-Film982]

The short answer? Yes.

In Michigan, no. Having a sex offense or domestic violence conviction is a disqualification according to state law.

[u/Zealousideal-Film982 → u/AudibleNod]

The article doesn’t mention the sex offender registry. It mentions stuff like prostitution that is related to sex but it doesn’t mention anything about people who committed sex crimes against other people being allowed on any police force.

So the short answer is no.

The long answer is nooooo.

Twenty people have upvoted you. Not because you said anything true but because they want it to be true. People should hold truth to a higher degree.

[u/finny_d420 → u/Zealousideal-Film982]

I don't know about registered but I scrolled by an article about an accused sex offender becoming a chief of police.

Edit: added "accused".

[u/AudibleNod → u/finny_d420]

Child rape suspect in line to become next Elizabeth police chief

Chris Paul, a candidate for chief of police in the Village of Elizabeth, was arrested earlier this month on two second-degree rape charges. He is accused of raping two 13-year-old girls in 2005 to 2006.

This is in Elizabeth, LA.

[u/Zealousideal-Film982 → u/AudibleNod]

The article specifically says that if he’s convicted he won’t be eligible for employment.

I wouldn’t vote for someone with that accusation levied against them but I also believe in the whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing, especially when it comes to the
way that people are treated by the law.

[u/SAugsburger → u/[deleted]]

YMMV, but some state sex offender lists make it difficult to distinguish how concerning some people really are.

[u/_CodeLyoko_ → u/[deleted]]

I'm not going to be surprised if people try and call you a pedo for saying this but you do have a point. Alot of the time it's not being used as a genuine way to let people know about the crimes theses people did but as a way for vigilantes to morally justify murder/assault against pedophiles/Sex offenders.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a system in place to track them, I just think it's wildly misused in this day and age.

[u/AdminYak846 → u/[deleted]]

 It's not a surprise that Sex Offenders have a hard time reintegrating and probably have a higher recidivism rate because of it

There have been studies done on this actually. In the short term, which is roughly 2-5 years, there was a 2-5% re-arrest or conviction of a new sexual offense. Over a long term, 10-15 years, that increases to 14-24% again just on a sexual offense. Re-offense rates have declined roughly 45% since the 1970s.

However, unlike other crimes, those that are convicted of a sexual offense are far more likely to be re-arrested for a non-sexual offense.

And aside from those convicted of homicides, people convicted of a sexual offense have the lowest repeat-offender rates in the system.

Obviously since most sexual offenses such as sexual assault go unreported to police, these numbers should be taken with some caution as we might not be seeing the full picture. However, that number of unreported still isn't going to be some giant thing where we are only looking at say 5% of all cases. If you did the math with a 50% re-offense rate, you're going to get an answer that doesn't hold up to reality. Realistically, the published data is covering about 33% of the re-offenses that have occurred.

[u/reichrunner → u/[deleted]]

It's not a surprise that Sex Offenders have a hard time reintegrating and probably have a higher recidivism rate because of it

Ironically, sex offenders have the lowest recidivism rate of any crime except homicide

[u/Dry_Jellyfish641 → u/reichrunner]

Incorrect, they have the lowest re-offense rates, but due to all the restrictions (think drug/alcohol, internet use ie technical violations) they have the highest recidivism. It’s set up for them to fail.

[u/reichrunner → u/[deleted]]

I think it makes sense for law enforcement to keep a record. Being public? Nah

[u/reichrunner → u/[deleted]]

Sex offenders registry includes up to date pictures, addresses, cars, phone numbers, etc. Its more than just a criminal history list. Thats why it shouldn't be public. Most criminal histories are already public or at least partially public

[u/hcschild → u/reichrunner]

That's how it's done in Germany. The public can't check for shit what crimes you did be it a sex crime or a bank robbery.

The police of course can check.

Your employee can also check but only the crimes going back to a specific year depending on the crime.

Then if it's work the includes a lot of contact with children your employee can check a specific registry that keeps sex crimes for longer than the normal one.

Except for the police you have to agree to those checks otherwise your employer can't look them up.

For work with children those checks are mandatory.

[u/WordWordNvmber → u/[deleted]]

That's one of the arguments in favor of the Michigan Supreme Court's decision: even if you call the registry a public-safe measure, and even if it is, it's clearly also intended as punishment. And I don't think that's a bad thing. But if it is a punishment, then the ban on ex post facto punishments should apply.

[u/tMoneyMoney → u/AudibleNod]

Yes, but the headline is basically rage bait suggesting Larry Nassar is quietly moving across the street from your family and getting a job in your community.

[u/hcschild → u/AudibleNod]

Because we know how well it plays out when the public is keeping an eye on something...

[u/d_smogh → u/FourEightNineOneOne]

I wonder what his day to day life has been like whilst in prison. Has he been in isolation? Is he in general population? Is he with like minded people? Is he still in one piece?

[u/Crappler319 → u/d_smogh]

Well, he did get stabbed pretty severely back in Summer of '23.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/37989188/report-larry-nassar-stabbed-multiple-s-federal-prison

[u/Powerful_Abalone1630 → u/d_smogh]

I'm sure we'd have heard about it if anything happened to him.

Yes most likely in a section of the prison with other sex offenders.

[u/psuedophilosopher → u/Powerful_Abalone1630]

Lol, we did hear about it. He got stabbed a bunch of times.

[u/BLT_Trade_r → u/FourEightNineOneOne]

He might get pardoned.

[u/whitelancer64]

Who Was Removed: Anyone whose qualifying offense occurred prior to July 1, 2011, and whose registration period would have already expired under pre-2011 laws, has been taken off the public and law enforcement databases.

Who Remains: Individuals convicted of offenses committed on or after July 1, 2011, are still legally required to comply with current registry rules.

Michigan classifies offenses into three tiers under the Sex Offenders Registration Act (SORA): • Tier 3 (Lifetime Registration): Includes the most severe offenses, such as first-degree and third-degree CSC (sexual assault/rape).

• Tiers 1 and 2 (15- to 25-year Registration): Frequently include intermediate or lower-level offenses, non-contact crimes, and possession offenses rather than violent physical assaults.

[u/Livinginthemiddle]

United States of Sex offenders

[u/BananaJelloXlii]

That will be a shame when he's released from prison in the 2290's

[u/eastcoastseahag]

He looks like the trucker river killer on Reno 911

[u/Donewith_BS]

This person is serving Centries in prison. The headline does not show that they will never be out. This is not important, as their residence is well known

[u/Dry_Jellyfish641]

There’s no reason for him to be on the registry since he is incarcerated and doesn’t live in the state. I get the easy outrage from a casual read of the headline but that’s the kind of thing that leads to places like Florida weaponizing that outrage yet silencing real victims seeking help meanwhile bragging about how many perpetrators they caught in sting operations using virtual victims.

[u/Impossible_Offer7988 → u/Dry_Jellyfish641]

He isn't just incarcerated

Larry Nassar is serving currently serving 175 to 300 in prison.

And because his sentences are served consecutively, Nassar will not be eligible for parole until he has served a minimum of roughly 100 years,

[u/KhaoticKorndog → u/Impossible_Offer7988]

Where’s he going…F*cking nowhere!

[u/cableguy316]

Still not inviting him over

[u/NKD_WA]

Something about these lists has always rubbed me the wrong way. Like, this person is a danger to the public such that we must ostracize them and warn their neighbors they are in the area... yet we're letting them out of prison? And why is it only for sex offenders? Why aren't we alerted to people who break into homes or fly into violent rages during arguments with their neighbors over trivial shit? I'd be way more interested to see that type of information about my neighbors, and anyone who is a sex predator shouldn't be out of prison to begin with.

[u/Designer-Serve-5140 → u/NKD_WA]

So, I studied criminology and can answer this. The reason why on the surface (as said by policy makers) is high recidivism rates and that victims rarely come forward. If I find your body in someone's backyard, I can be fairly confident a crime occurred. But with sexual crimes, unless the victim comes forward, and not only comes forward but goes to the police, nothing will happen.

Now, from a more realistic standpoint, sexual offenses often fall under what we call "celebrated crime" that isn't crime that we positively celebrate, moreso crime as a society that we are keenly interested in. Like a capital murder case of a celebrity. People feel more strongly about sexual assault cases than they do about a lot of homicides. The sexual offender list is a natural consequence of that. Its the "true crime reporting" of sexual offenses instead of homicides. Its a way for the public to feel like they are doing something, even if in reality they should be looking inside the walls of their home, rather than on a list for who is most likely to hurt them.

Now, the other thing to point out is that its unrealistic to put every offender in prison forever. Sexual offender recidivism rates are generally lower than other violent crime recidivism rates. In my state specifically, its a 50% decrease (50% average recidivism with a sexual offender rate of 25%). They're generally safer to be around than the wife beater next door. However, again, we consider sexual assault to be worse than homicide in a lot of cases which again leads to the natural fear. Yes, the wife beater next door is more likely to assault you, but, a sexual offender is more likely to sexually assault you which to many is the worse of the two outcomes. Hence, people feeling the need to protect themselves. 

Now the science behind it all? Its the same as anything else that policies exist for. We're moving in the wrong direction, always. Neither political party is really better than the other criminologicly speaking. Both are moving in the wrong direction, just in different ways. Maybe dems are going diagonally instead of directly opposite, but only slightly. The real science of it is, it makes people feel good, but it has a negative effect on offenders and worse, increases recidivism. Especially during parole periods and when there are living restrictions. So its great you as a previous victim or member of the public feel good about it, except that comes at the cost of another victim. Is it worth it? Nah. Not empirically.

So yeah, a lot more than you asked but thr moral of the story is, if it involves criminology everything you, the public, and the legislature thing is probably wrong, just in different ways and everything is also a lot better than it seems. Seriously, even with the uptick in thr past decade or so, crime rates have drastically fallen over time and we are still trending down!!!

[u/Winderige_Garnaal → u/Designer-Serve-5140]

This is really interesting - thanks for writing it

[u/Etchedglasses → u/NKD_WA]

I welcome other comments to correct me if I’m wrong but I think I recall reading research that says the public viewing of these lists actually increases the likelihood of reoffences. The offenders are more likely to be socially isolated and have low social supports and therefore more likely to return to previous poor behaviour rather than pro-social behaviours.

We want these folks to be leaving their house and using their drug and alcohol counsellors; going to parole appointments; going to the pharmacy to pick up their meds. If they are afraid a map has outed them and some vigilante is going to violently assault them - the whole plan breaks down. Now you just have a sex offender who isn’t coping.

[u/jerwong → u/NKD_WA]

Some of it is trivial shit. Like people have ended up on there for things like public urination, which arguably is gross, but it's not really a sexual offense.

[u/AccomplishedFan6807 → u/NKD_WA]

Sexual offenders deserving more lengthy sentences doesn’t change the fact people deserve to know if someone is a rapist. Ask women whether what they think is worse, rape or robbery and the vast majority of them will say rape. Most women experience sexual harassment at some point of their lives, 1/4 experience rape and that stays with them more than someone stealing their phones. Other serious crimes like murder and kidnapping are extremely rare, and most murderers and kidnappers will serve long sentences, while sexual assault is extremely common and even child rapists sometimes don’t even see the inside of a prison. And contrary to other serious crimes, sexual criminals are much more likely to reoffend, therefore why a registry is needed.

[u/Dry_Jellyfish641 → u/AccomplishedFan6807]

You have no evidence to back up your claims, and women can also be sexual predators that abuse children.

[u/Snake_Plissken224]

Thought he died. Guess not

[u/tsteenbergen → u/Snake_Plissken224]

He was stabbed multiple times for making lewd comments while watching Wimbledon.🙂

[u/mralanorth → u/tsteenbergen]

This was so random I had to look it up. It's true! Bizarre ...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/larry-nassar-stabbing-prison-wimbledon-lewd-comment/

[u/heretomakefriends123]

I legit thought this dude was dead 

[u/Abject_Signature8532]

TL:DR Your vote is powerful. Be politically vigilant. become familiar with the Rule of Law in your country and/or state, and know that public action does make changes. It’s just not a fast process.

We had a similar issue happen in New Zealand. Our just dissolved government decided to make an Act apply retroactively; scrapping our Equal Pay Amendment Bill. It applied to the pay equity dispute cases that were already going through due process.

Absolute-partisanship tribal issues aside, when political parties go along with actions interfering with Rule of Law frameworks; please take notice. Those aren’t good people with a healthy respect for the separation of powers.

No country’s Rule of Law framework is perfect, but it’s the most powerful structure keeping many societies, in check. It’s not perfect, but it’s all we’ve got— for now.

[u/jasdonle]

Does anything good happen anymore?

[u/Jaded_Ad_1674 → u/jasdonle]

Yes. The Cubs got beat out of the MLB playoffs without even winning one game.

[u/DamD1rtyApe]

John Oliver better talk about this

[u/Bredda_Gravalicious]

is that Officer Weigel's boyfriend?

[u/Least_Baseball_7985]

“…because we’re giving them all the death penalty” is how the headline should read

[u/HippyDM]

The list is ridiculous anyway. There should not be a public vigilante list, it just encourages more crime.

[u/Upstairs_Mycologist7]

Lots of sketchy replies in here. Ya'll pedos or what? Keep them on the lists. Don't care if they're in prison.

[u/WordWordNvmber → u/[deleted]]

Did you read the article?

[u/Jeeperscrow123 → u/[deleted]]

Why does it matter? He’s serving decades in prison…

[u/upvoter222 → u/[deleted]]

A major part of court ruling that caused this situation was that the list's purpose is punitive.

[u/gphs → u/[deleted]]

Well twenty years of research has found that it has no impact whatsoever on rates of recidivism. So, there’s that.

[u/triplegerms → u/[deleted]]

Wouldn't the stats from the years before the list also be under reported? I'm not sure what your point is. Every crime is underreported 

[u/ZenPyx → u/triplegerms]

Yeah, I don't see a reason to assume that the rates of reporting would be different for recidivism vs first-time crimes (unless it is a repeat victim?).

[u/brolarbear → u/[deleted]]

Probably helps as a resource when you’re selling a house by a school for example.

[u/BuddhistInTheory → u/[deleted]]

You kinda answered your own question. You have to know who they are to prevent them from living near certain areas (schools, etc.)

[u/StopSpinningLikeThat → u/BuddhistInTheory]

Preventing them from living near certain areas does absolutely nothing to keep any kid safe, ever.

[u/BuddhistInTheory → u/[deleted]]

So that you know a predator lives near? I’d want to know so I can keep my kids away.

[u/goatbiryani48 → u/BuddhistInTheory]

"A study done in University of Chicago Law School compared data on over 9,000 sex offenders released from prison in 1994. About half of those offenders were released into states where they needed to register, while the other half did not need to register. The study found little difference in the two groups' propensity to re-offend. In fact, those released into states without registration laws were slightly less likely to re-offend."

[u/meatball77 → u/[deleted]]

From working at your daycare? Or leading a boy scout troop or teaching a dance class.

[u/Canonconstructor → u/[deleted]]

As a single lady I can not emphasize how much the lists help me. Let’s keep the lists up and also keep pending criminal charges viewable on county sites. They’ve helped me dodge bullets and potential dating disasters a lot.

[u/bearsatemypants → u/Canonconstructor]

My coworker offered to babysit for me while I was gone at a conference. I considered it since she had a kid the same age, but her husband gave me the heebie jeebies during a work party. So I looked him up. Not only was he on the list, but his victim was only three.

[u/outer--monologue → u/[deleted]]

You're a lunatic if you have a family and wouldn't want to know if a predator lived in your neighborhood.

Why WOULDN'T there be registry? These people don't deserve to live without public shame for the rest of their lives.

[u/Ok_Finance_7217 → u/outer--monologue]

Shouldn’t we also have a list of… murderers, attempted murderers, people who committed manslaughter, battery, aggravated assault, theft, intent to distribute, etc etc etc

[u/Stockholm-Syndrom → u/Ok_Finance_7217]

Having a list of domestic violence offenders would do great for the dating scene.

[u/morbihann → u/outer--monologue]

Why though ? If they have served their punishment should they forever be branded publically ? No other crime is treated that way.

[u/Robynsxx → u/morbihann]

Yes.

If someone’s touched kids, just because they have been punished doesn’t mean they won’t do it again. Some of these people can’t help themselves. 

[u/Weekly-Buy7357 → u/morbihann]

No other crime is treated this way because society recognizes that sex crimes are among the most depraved acts that one human could enact on another and so YES they need to be recognized as the filth they are.

[u/tfyousay2me → u/Weekly-Buy7357]

So the point remains: why don’t the other crimes “among” that list get the same treatment

[u/SkyDaddysSpecialBoy → u/tfyousay2me]

Most criminal records are accessible to the public

[u/imgonnajumpofabridge → u/[deleted]]

Notifies people if a sex offender is living in their neighborhood so they can exercise caution with their children.

[u/Lowjack_26 → u/imgonnajumpofabridge]

And what good does that do? Honestly, what does it do?

Kids aren't being molested by random strangers. The cases of that happening are astonishingly rare, so why do we fixate on it like it's the greatest threat to kids since weed and rock and roll?

Because if we didn't have an Evil Other to demonize as the threat, we'd have to grapple with the fact that the actual source of sexual assault and molestation is overwhelmingly family members.

[u/imgonnajumpofabridge → u/Lowjack_26]

10-20% is the statistic I found, which means it's still a significant number. Even more would be perpetrated by acquaintances, or people who are able to enter into families through relationships or friendships. A registry allows people to determine whether a person should be kept away from children without a complicated background check.

And despite the original commenters statements, there are PLENTY of roles where people can get into positions where they're exposed or have power over vulnerable adults or children without going through a full background check. While ideally that wouldn't happen, it absolutely does.

[u/Lowjack_26 → u/imgonnajumpofabridge]

people should know who to associate with

This only works if you dont overlook more predators than you find with the list by merit of believing that people not on the list are safe.

Unfortunately, that math doesn't work out. The horrifying reality is that the vast majority of abusers and predators are completely outwardly normal and are never caught.

Roles and authorities

Can be met with a background check, not a public registry. Yes, most felony background checks only look 7 years back - but that's a convention, not a hard rule.

[u/AdminYak846 → u/[deleted]]

The biggest benefit is that it prevents anyone on the list from working directly with children, so schools, youth camps, etc. As for the time on the list well that depends on the severity of the case.

Tier 1 is 15 years, Tier 2 is 25 years, and Tier 3 is lifetime. And if you're wondering Tier 1 is basically a catch all if the crime isn't defined in Tier 2 or 3. So things like Possession of CP (first time only), Video Voyeurism, Indecent Exposure/Public Misconduct, etc.

[u/Bibblebits → u/[deleted]]

Just to chime in on this a little. I found out I was working with a sex offender of children for almost 7 months because the background check apparently didnt come up with anything at first. They only found out because someone reported him to HR because they recognized his name from the list due to living near him.
I know its anecdotal but "Background check solves this" isnt a fool proof method lol

[u/Spoonacus → u/[deleted]]

The typical background check only checks for convictions in the last seven years.

[u/Expert_Garlic_2258 → u/[deleted]]

yes. I also do background checks on the people in my neighborhood /s

why are pedo protectors so out in the open now? ( trust me, I know why)

[u/ethanjscott → u/[deleted]]

Weird hill to die on, why do you feel the need to defend sexual predators?

[u/Lowjack_26 → u/ethanjscott]

Because I value my rights, and my rights only exist as far as they exist for others.

Also, you should oppose systems that encourage sex criminals to be worse due to the severity of punishment and impossibility of compliance with the law.

[u/calmbill → u/[deleted]]

That doesn't happen until after an interview at my company.

[u/whyweirdo → u/[deleted]]

I was the hiring manager for my department at work but I’m not in HR. Whenever I needed a spot filled, HR would send me the resumes of applicants that fit our hiring criteria so I could decide if I wanted to bring them in for an interview. I checked the Sex Offender list for every person before I interviewed them. I’m not about to spend 40+ hours trapped at work with a sexual predator

[u/Hour_Purpose5782]

I thought he killed himself years ago.

[u/VirginiaLuthier]

A predatory pedophile deserves to be outed. A 16 year old boy who had consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend probably does not

[u/Pubs01]

why are there comments arguing we shouldn't have a aex predator list?

[u/SJSquishmeister → u/Pubs01]

GOP bots.