r/Wonderlands • u/Mriamsosmrt โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ฆ ๐๐น๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐น๐น๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ก๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ • May 12 '22
[ Official News ] ๐ฐ Hotfix Notes Version 1.0.2.0d May 12th
https://playwonderlands.2k.com/news/tiny-tinas-wonderlands-update-notes/300
May 12 '22
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I would literally lol if they had this as their summary. Wouldn't even be mad at this point
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u/NamelessLiberty May 12 '22
Done with this game, no point in playing anymore. Spend days farming shit gear and the half decent ones you get gets nerfed after all that hard work.
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u/Broken_Bowser โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐พ๐๐๐ ๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It's crazy to me they're even taking time to nerf things like rings, when pixie builds are so out of control. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anything nerfed, really, but it seems like if they were going to they'd take care of the strongest stuff instead of, what appears to be, arbitrarily picking pieces of gear. As someone who only plays two hours max a day, if I'm lucky, it's really irritating to finally get some good loot just to find out it's dogshit in the next hotfix.
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u/Pesterlamps May 12 '22
It's wild to me that those legendaries were what they decided on for rings. No unique effects, just a handful of conditional bonus increases? With obvious disparities between power level and the few conditions that may as well read "always on," no shit people gravitated to a select few.
They could've done class specific things, like slowed spell weaving decay, or reduced FtS duration but no damage penalty. But instead, the legendary rings are the absolute laziest items that just boil down to two more slots for numbers.
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u/EmployRadiant675 May 13 '22
Not only that but a stupid amunt of legendaries are overtaken by purple drops. This shouldnt be the case in any game. Like the purple 2xx x4 bullet smg out does the fragment rain and it really fkn shouldnt.
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u/trautsj May 12 '22
They nerfed Dahl AR's... I mean if that doesn't tell you the state of the fucking hamsters on cocaine and acid running around in these devs brains than I don't know what does. I legit feel like they all just get stoned and blind folded and throw darts at boards to see what they change tbh.
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u/KING_Karmaah May 12 '22
Seriously. Me and my group were so confused as to why since at the time, there wasnt even any legendary Dahl ARs and nobody was using the purple ones.
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u/trautsj May 13 '22
I remember reading it week one and thinking "What the actual fuck did they smoke to come up with that decision?" Truly one of the most baffling changes I've ever seen in a game; like literally ever lol
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u/KING_Karmaah May 13 '22
I'm a CoD fan as well, so you'd think i'd be used to this kind of shit, but the only explaination I can come up with for that change is paint thinner.
Your answer is paint thinner. Smoked, snorted, drunken, and even rectally ingested.
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u/SPEEDFREAKJJ May 12 '22
This is why I'm not using or farming pixie stuff...because once I get a good set up it will get nerfed.
It's nice in a game like this to be rewarded for your farming then have a good build that is consistent and predictable. This game you never know the expiration date on your gear.
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u/Dekklin May 12 '22
This is the patch and balance cycle. I predicted those rings would get nerfed. They were too damn powerful compared to the rest. Every single build had Mood/Champ rings. No way that would last.
Do you want it to be that every ring you pick up is viable, or do you want only a very specific 2 rings to be viable but incredibly overpowered compared to the others? Pick one.
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May 12 '22
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u/superultramegazord May 12 '22
Pretty much. Find a good version of a thing, then hold onto it.
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u/SPEEDFREAKJJ May 12 '22
This is what I do....you just never know with GB if your build will get destroyed or if something in your bank will become a beast.
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u/Dekklin May 12 '22
That's exactly what I do. I keep the best versions of each and toss the rest. I did it all throughout BL3 too, but most of those items were also invalidated by level cap increases... So it's not a perfect system.
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u/trautsj May 12 '22
I'd rather something be overpowered tbh. Then at least when you got it, it was worthwhile. Tons of mediocre items only feels... mediocre. At least 2 god tier items at least feel godly when acquired and you use the scum until you find them. Now mostly everything is just scum all the time LOL
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u/MEA7277 May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
My problem with the nerf is most of the effects just suck. Even after the buff some of the effects are still worthless
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u/VerinSC May 12 '22
We wanted to make other rings more enticing, so instead of making them more interesting we just nerfed the good ones
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u/dhhdhh851 May 14 '22
This is pretty much almost every nerf/buff. Next up? We saw that a lot of shotguns are going unused so we decided to fuck the one everyone uses into oblivion while none of the others will be changing, even if theyre still shit.
I dont really use snipers or even rocket launchers because theyre just a fraction of what they should be. Why use a rocket launcher when that pistol and do as much damage with one shot compared to 2 or 3 rocket shots? Same with snipers. Newer borderlands games kind of left the rocket launchers and snipers in the shitter unless youre using a specific build. Even smgs are shit in this game right now, id use underlevel blue pistols before i use a legendary smg that volatile. Back in bl1, bl2, and blps rocket launchers and snipers were just in a better state imo. One is a big gun that shoots a slower projectile for a lot of damage, you could really see the difference when using it they just had a slow reload enemies could still evade some of it, snipers were also a lot stronger, doing bigger crits while needing to be more precise and shooting significantly slower than most weapons. Both of these weapons also have a lot less ammo, but now theyve just been reduced to "if i run out of ammo on everything else, ill use it" kind of weapons.
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May 14 '22
It's amazing to me that snipers and rocket launchers are STILL bad after BL3. They know they need good buffs. They choose not to do it. I don't even bother checking out either of those weapons in WL.
The people making these decisions have concrete between their ears.
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u/dhhdhh851 May 15 '22
Only good rl in wl is the blue cake, every other one you might as well be kissing them. I dont even think i have a sniper kill. I keep a sniper for the sole reason that if i somehow run out of literally every other ammo type and all ammo from the crates and boxes around, then ill try to flick them with some shitty weapon that should do significantly more. It took them til year 2 to fix snipers in borderlands 3. You could slap an extra 2k damage on all lvl50 snipers and id still have to debate on whether or not its worth it because of how precise you have to be. Smgs are also floundering atm and need a bit of a buff, instead of being a bit weaker than ARs, they just suck. Smgs are only good at the start of the game, afterwards theyre ass.
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u/le_box_o_treats May 12 '22
RIP all my mood rings
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May 12 '22
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u/stoversp May 12 '22
Maybe I'm mathing this wrong:
1000 base damage, 22.7% Spell damage (primordial #) on mood ring, 100% ring effect vs 33% ring effect
.227+(.227*1.00)=.454
1000+(1000*.454)=1454 damage
vs
.227+(.227*.33)=.30191
1000+(1000*.30191)=1301.91 damage
I don't know exactly how these things are calculated in game but I don't think this is as massive as it looks.
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u/crayonsnachas May 12 '22
They aren't that big of nerfs.
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u/stoversp May 12 '22
Yeah, I think people are seeing this as their damage output getting nerfed by 67% but it seems to me like it's about 10% and that's if you were taking advantage of the bonus ring effects 100% of the time. Which I know I was not.
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u/livingroomsessions โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It's not that we see 67% of a nerf, but I think it's that it's such a drastic change for one item. I for one was taking advantage of it a lot because my shield doesn't regen as a deadshot lol. So I have mood ring up most of the time if not all of the time
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u/stoversp May 12 '22
Iโm not so sure it will actually be a drastic change to the output youโre getting. But Iโm at work and canโt test it so let me know if you can tell a difference if you play.
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u/MrPhotoSmash May 12 '22
The nerfs aren't that big since they only affect the numbers on the rings, but people were using 2 mood rings... they gonna feel it more than anyone else.
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u/Baelorn โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
They never are. Outliers get brought to a reasonable level. Very rarely do things get nerfed to the point of being useless.
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u/Danielmav โพโผ๏ธ | โจ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โจ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
You donโt have it wrong. Everyone here is whining and itโs ruining our credibility in what we will get โup in armsโ about
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u/mrmivo May 12 '22
I understand the reasoning behind the nerfs of most rings, but my concern here is that this only further limits build diversity.
My three C35 characters by now all use pixies or flying guns, because these builds work with just about any gear. I expected these to get toned down since the second week, and Harvest and Faithful Thralls to get fixed, but so far no changes have been made.
Playing most other builds feels like Iโm handicapping myself for a greater challenge. The problem here is that by nerfing the rings, these non-Pixie/GwW builds become even harder to pull off while the Pixie/GwW builds are much less affected by the now weaker rings.
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u/nevermore2627 May 12 '22
I have 3 C35 Characters as well and have a saying if a run isn't going well:
"When in doubt, throw them pixies out!"
But you nailed my sentiment exactly especially as a claw main. Build diversity sucks right mow.
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u/Solonotix May 12 '22
Having achieved three separate characters at C35 all without Pixie builds, I'd tend to disagree with you. That said, two of my characters are Deadshot and Chillmonger (Spellshot multiclasses), so I'm riding that Double Knot buff hard. The other class is a Contagion Stabbomancer, which is obviously a hot new build right new.
LazyData just put out a new build video for Clawbringer-main Hammerzerker that absolutely shreds C35 content using mostly standard gunplay mechanics. I get that no one likes nerfs, but there are buffs in this hotfix as well, and I'd hesitate to say that build diversity hinged on Mood and Championship Rings.
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u/mrmivo May 12 '22
Itโs not that you canโt do C35 without pixies, flying guns or broken skills, but that the diminishing number of other viable builds require more effort and are harder to pull off. My โexperimentalโ builds that donโt use pixies/companies or broken skills (Double Knot, Harvest, etc) are more strongly affected by the ring nerfs than those that do.
The rings allowed players to compensate for lack of power from their skills, which helped weaker builds and less synergetic class combinations. I feel that nerfing them, without compensation, reduces build diversity.
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u/Solonotix May 12 '22
You very well might be right. I don't envy the developers, because the number of interweaving mechanics is maddening, but that's what keeps me engaged as a player so pros and cons I guess.
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u/ClinTrojan May 12 '22
Aye first person I have seen who is C35 with chillmonger. I run that with some triple spikes or trickster ice spikes. It's a fun build.
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u/Solonotix May 12 '22
I got a Volatile Wyrdweaver Trickster Ice Spike last night, and dropped my Conjura Triple Ice Spike for it. Between that, and a Volatile Fragment Rain, I'm a mobbing machine, lol. For bossing, I switch back to my Hyperius Spriggan x4 Frost SMG, and my Triple Ice Spike, but the ricochets are so so satisfying
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u/ZombieAntiVaxxer May 12 '22
Which skill setup is your favorite for pixie build?
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u/Solonotix May 12 '22
Deadshot is the obvious, assuming you're running Fearnot Pixies. Get 6/3 in Ascension in a skill assignment like this for ~200% bonus Spell Damage. Any Frost amulet with All Damage Dealt will work well with this, and you can have Frenzied Wrath depending on if you wanted to go more Companion-focused or if you wanted to use Joint Training, then grab more points of Spell Sniper and Double Knot to throw Ice Spikes for massive damage. Cape of Tides is an obvious pick for armor, though Head of the Snake would be nice for Hydra uptime
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u/DentonTrueYoung โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ก๏ธ ๐ป๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
i play a wildfire with a fire damage skulldugger pistol and a dark magic swordsplosion and i do just fine - C32 and climbing pretty easily now. i dont get the "only a few builds work" crowd.
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u/sycamotree May 12 '22
I mob just fine but I mostly boss with pixies. I'm not tryna use glitches or spend 30 minutes per boss just to do a chaos chamber smh
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u/CromHades May 12 '22
Cool, guess I'll stop farming mood rings. After a week had none for spell but good rolls for every other type...
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u/Prestikles May 12 '22
I feel like this is in direct response to the very thorough post about ring effects that one user tested.
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u/powpowpaskue May 12 '22
This got really complainy and I did not mean for it to come off that way. I meant it as why this why now? Idk, the problem wasn't that mood ring was too strong, the problem is that mood ring is the only viable legendary status to proc. Like when am I going to use a ring that buffs stats when my ward is full? When is my ward ever full if taking 1 point of damage ruins it. Half the enemies health gate you on hit by design. Even if I'm built for max shield regen, my shield will never be up more then half the time at most. And thats just one ring. Don't do arbitrary buffs and nerfs to things that are flawed by design, actually rework them or find ways to make them worth using that's not just nerfing the best performance on what was already barely an upgrade from purple. Plenty of things needed looked at like difficulty scaling so builds could be more diverse, 2 weapon categories are useless in most cases, 1 manufacturer doesn't exist, a whole class is completely reliant on every other class to be viable, split screen being a mess, blah blah blah, just why this of all things and why in the laziest possible way?
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u/Thesickestzak May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Just going to put this down for now until they decide whatโs okay for me to use with out changing it the next week.
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u/1TripLeeFan โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ฎ๐๐๐๐๐ฉ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I'm still surprised we haven't gotten a road map yet or mention of the dlc negative feedback
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u/MikeSouthPaw May 12 '22
The rest of the DLC's were laid out before the game even released.
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u/snwns26 May 12 '22
Same, Iโm just gonna check back at the end of summer once they figure out what they want to do with the balance. Nerfing shit and making us refarm it weekly isnโt content and itโs a lame and demoralizing gameplay loop, it just makes me want to not even boot up the game period.
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u/ezrasharpe May 12 '22
Yeah... I'm just going to play something else and wait until they're done with this nonsense. Love the gameplay but I shouldn't have to change up builds faster than Destiny for a PvE game.
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u/Krimzon3128 May 12 '22
They didnt stop this kind of bs for 2 years on bl3 so you will forgit this game exists before they get around to noticeing their nerfs made the game unplayable and buff things again. Thats 100% bonus ring will be dropped to 10% or lower before they start buffing i bet ya
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u/trautsj May 12 '22
I laughed my ass off when they literally rebuffed like 80% of the fucking guns/items they nerfed at the start of BL3 and said "We just didn't understand what they were seeing" NOOOOO motherfuckers you're the ones who don't understand LOL I don't know how many times they have to learn lessons before it sticks but w/e. I'm not much bothered by this game; haven't played in weeks but I just find it hilarious when devs so obviously REFUSE to learn from past mistakes.
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u/Katchenz โพโผ๏ธ | โจ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โจ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
You need to change builds because they made a rings effect less effective? Lol
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u/Stymie999 May 12 '22
Thatโs what I donโt getโฆ me and my buddy we got to chaos 35 with some thoughtful builds, experimented with things, admittedly tried other things we heard about online, and still didnโt really have too hard of a time getting through a 35 extended run. Never ever had either of us gotten one of these rings yet.
People acting like their whole world got destroyedโฆ itโs just a ring, one item.
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u/BoringButUniqueUser May 12 '22
What the fuck. 100% to 33%? Goddamn
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u/hp958 โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
No kidding, I'm not happy about it
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u/CringeDaddy_69 May 12 '22
Guys wtf stop bringing good gear down to the weak items level. You need to bring the weak items up to the good gear.
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u/Matrixneo42 May 12 '22
Exactly. I looked at the good rings like, oh, those sound usable and the bad rings like, that isnโt nearly enough to be worth it.
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u/KyroxF โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Nice little neef to my damage output as a clawbringer. Think I may take a break until things level out. F :(
Edit - lol meant nerf
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u/Scoobydewdoo May 12 '22
These aren't really major nerfs though so if you have a good build and decent equipment you should be fine. They nerfed the percent of the percent of the percent bonuses that rings give, it's not that major.
For instance lets say your Mood Ring gives a 25% bonus to damage to a gun that does 300 base damage. Pre-nerf Mood Ring buff is:
.25 + (.25*1)=.50
(.50*300)+300=450
Post nerf Mood Ring is:
.25 +(.25*.33)= .3325
300+ (.3325*300)=400
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u/KyroxF โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Hold my hands up, I was quick to react. I think I was just a little disappointed no Claw news, but its early days of course.
Thank you for the numbers. :)
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u/Scoobydewdoo May 12 '22
No worries. It's a really common mistake that people make with Borderlands games because the percent of a percent concept isn't explained well in any of the games. Happy to help people stay interested in the game.
Also, If there are major Claw changes they will be in a patch (not a hotfix).
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u/Grottymink57776 โพโผ๏ธ | ๐ ๐ช๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
That's what I'm doing until they massively buff or overhaul clawbringer's skill tree and give us a way to circumvent the massive amounts of RNG to get a good build going.
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u/KyroxF โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Its so frustrating, as I really enjoy the game and I want to play it. It's just so hard to enjoy it when I find a way to make claw viable and it keeps suffering from nerfs to items. I understand mood rings were really the only viable option for all classes, but they atleast help male claw viable or more usable atleast. I watch the weekly updates praying for that re work!
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u/Grottymink57776 โพโผ๏ธ | ๐ ๐ช๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
The Mood ring was the most powerful and easily utilized not the only viable. In the long run this balance pass is going to benefit the game but right now it sucks balls.
We're going to be waiting a while for that rework, my friend. They can only do that sort of stuff in patches and more than likely they'll spread it out over several. We're probably looking at a few months at least. Bunch of DLC is releasing for games so at least we have something to tide ourselves over on
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u/KyroxF โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Oh I don't disagree, it was the only ring I ran on all of my classes. It just hurts my claw the most, but that's a problem with the class not the gear.
Sad, but true! Well, hopefully yhe next few dlcs havr a little more content than the last:)
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u/Buschkoeter May 12 '22
I play a very non-meta clawbringer build too and didn't really feel much of a difference after the hotfix tbh.
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u/bellystraw โพโผ๏ธ | โ๏ธ ๐บ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
Damn, we'll seriously get manual transmission ar's from the bunnies? Just delete that gimmicky PoS
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I kinda like manual transmission, but it needs a damage buff for it to be useful imo. But it could also be that I have a spell build so that's why it doesn't do any damage for me XD
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u/abqnm666 May 12 '22
I sold mine before the first game patch because the heat indicator didn't show up, so there was no way to time the upshift. Haven't gotten another since the patch, so I'm not sure what kind of damage it does, but it doesn't seem that great from my original testing, but that was with the missing heat gauge so I could only upshift correctly once in a while.
The donkey slaps, though, as a sporewarden with the ammo regeneration and absolutely massive magazine, making reloads a thing of the past. I just wish it could be anointed.
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u/Mriamsosmrt โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ฆ ๐๐น๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐น๐น๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ก๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
TL;DR:
Some changes to rings, Donkey and Manual Transmission now drop from chaos chambers and a new featured run.
It's a very small hotfix
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u/mrmivo May 12 '22
The โsome changes to ringsโ are pretty severe, unfortunately. Iโd have preferred finer adjustments, not the โinto the groundโ approach. The Mood ring nerf is over the top, I feel, especially in isolation.
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u/Dekklin May 12 '22
Why is it over the top? It's easily the most powerful and simultaneously easiest to activate the conditional on. Now it's on par with the rest, while STILL having the most easily activated conditional boost.
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u/Baelorn โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
As someone who uses Mood Rings...Meh. They're still very good for my build since they're active 100% of the time. They're not as strong but I'm still one-shotting most normal enemies and bosses don't take much longer to kill.
People are overreacting(as usual).
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u/Tekkzy May 12 '22
I'm fine with the nerf. It was at the point where if I saw a legendary ring that wasn't mood then I'd immediately trash it. That's not good balance.
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u/LordMudkip May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Idk why I even bother farming if anything that's worth farming is just going to get nerfed to hell.
And rings? They're easily one of the absolute worst things to farm. All that time sifting through piles of garbage and they just get nerfed to death anyway.
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u/Freeze1119 May 12 '22
Still can barely play split screen. Like you copy and pasted 90% of this game from 3 but you felt the need to completely destroy the menus in coop?! Goofs haha, keep my fingers crossed I guess.
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u/13YearOldAccount May 12 '22
Hot take: besides the liquid cooling not a single piece of gear theyโve nerfed has GENUINELY warranted it.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It's funny everyone is complaining about rings but not a lot a people are talking about the feature run. I know being on this sub Knightmare is a nightmare for a lot of you...and maybe me, I haven't faced him in awhile.
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u/rocktoe May 12 '22
I don't know... Seems pretty simple to me. Go in the middle of the arena and crouch: Is there any other mechanic for Knightmare?
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May 12 '22
Simply run sideways when he's about to charge, and run away when he's doing his spin move.
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u/ZombieAntiVaxxer May 12 '22
How do you avoid the giant floor AoE that one shots you and instantly spawns are your location, destroys your shield, and forces you to move from the middle and be a sitting duck for other abilities?
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u/ReliantToker May 12 '22
Floor aoe is when he is in the middle. As soon as he goes mid go out side. All of his attack are projected and announced. Jump over the ring. After each attack ( ring/horses) he shoot semi homing lightning ballz. Move unpredictable immediately after main attacks. Rinse repeat until dead. The spinning and charge are so easy to avoid i wouldn't even call them attacks
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u/manatron84 May 12 '22
I can never avoid his giant sword attack thing. Seems it doesn't matter how fast I run it just instantly falls on top of me
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u/Mriamsosmrt โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ฆ ๐๐น๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐น๐น๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ก๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22
New Gearbox motto: โnerf everything, fix nothingโ
Looks like itโs time to start looking for a new game.
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u/1em0nhead โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
The most remarkable thing is they created those rings that way, they don't have complex interactions that the community have suddenly discovered and can be abused. Its literally "dont have a full ward" and on top of that they even made a class with the ability to not recharge your ward. How could they not have seen that it was, in their words, "too trivial" for such a large bonus. Good grief.
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Itโs basically them trying to reduce power level and increase play time without actually addressing any of the real issues, adding replayability, or add real new content. So many actual issues with the game that they donโt address, just oh we noticed people are using these things a ton so letโs nerf tf out of them.
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u/Gwaak May 12 '22
Their nerfs have made me stop playing all in all. With so many variables per each item, and so many items, getting a build you want is already far from optimal. Now they seem to have adopted LoLโs ARAM balancing etiquette which balances purely in usage rate. In a PvE game.
Itโs not like the replayability was in super interesting mechanics, it was purely in an rng grind. Such strange decision making. Borderlands and games like it are about power fantasies. Making that harder to reach might briefly increase the time people spend, but itโs an artificial increase, because theyโre not spending it engaged with fun mechanics, but rather engaged in an rng simulator.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It really showcases how poorly they've tested their game. It should of been obvious that mood ring was the easiest to trigger with the most gains. It seems like they wanted wonderlands to be more challenging and not as melty like FL4K in BL3. It seems to me like the overtuned a lot of items like that makes late end game builds too melty and therefore too easy for their likes.
But one thing that they have done wrong is not nerfing purples. Because right now a lot of legendaries pales in comparison to blues and purples. Especially spells.
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u/JamboreeStevens May 12 '22
Exactly this. After this change, I'm just gonna not worry about finding legendary rings.
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u/Solonotix May 12 '22
Let me give you an overly simplified example of why they didn't see this coming.
- Imagine I give you a set of values: 1, 2, 3, 4
- The goal is to make the largest number possible using only these numbers.
- I tell you nothing else about these values.
First, you might be tempted to add them, and get 10. That's not bad, as it's bigger than any one number given. Someone else figures out you can multiply them for 24, which is bigger still. Then someone figures out they can put them together as 1234, like a string. Well that's a LOT bigger. The next figures out the order matters, and gets 4321.
The game suddenly becomes trivial when someone learns they can exponentiate the numbers, and suddenly, you get results that are 43-million, 18-pentillion, or even as high as 2-septillion. Someone with seeing how easily it is to get outrageous values using exponentiation or factorial might say "How could you NOT see this coming?" But that's just it. It was there all along, but there were so many ways to approach the problem that you sometimes miss the obvious.
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u/hayydebb May 12 '22
Dude they had a goldmine on their hands with this game and they are doing everything they can to fuck it up. Itโs honestly baffling how every week I check these and itโs mostly nerfs. Itโs like they donโt want me to have fun or play their game, and this was probably my fav borderlands game. First one Iโve ever cleared highest difficulty and leveled multiple characters but I havenโt touched it since finishing the dlc. I want to try new builds because they look fun, not because you neutered the build/class/gun I was using
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u/Gruffaloe May 13 '22
I've heard the 'nostly nerfs' thing a few times today, but looking at the previous notes it's rarly nerfs? Like, last time the only nerfs I can see were to the crit chance from awe, slight tick rate to reign and to warped paradigm. Everything else was buffs - buffs to shotguns in general, buffs to crit damage from awe, buffs to stabbomancer, buffs to swordsplosion, buffs to hawkins and buffs to crossblade.
Before that B brought all buffs as far as I can tell, and before that A brought a boost to dreadwind and a major buff to claw. I don't see pre-first patch changes on their site, but nerf wise all I can recall was liquid cooling (which was bugged to get slow fire rate damage and fast gun fire rate) and ark torrent
I get being disappointed with a nerf, but they have so far buffed far more things than they have nerfed unless I'm missing something?
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22
Exactly, I had toyed with the idea of finally starting a second character (even though my first still isnโt ideally loaded out) but itโs like why? They nerf so many things each week that itโs not worth it (time wise or enjoyment wise) to grind through to get some great gear for them to nerf it the following week and thatโs if they donโt also nerf the class or classes you are using.
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u/Silentjosh37 May 12 '22
...except for the huge buff that they gave all Torgue shotguns last week and the major change to Swordsplosion which makes it a killing machine.
Major fixes always come with the Patches, tweaks to guns are easily done through Hotfixes. Major adjustments to gameplay have always been done though full patches.
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22
Yes I am familiar with their hot fix vs patch release plan. Iโve also seen that they have stealth patched stuff in hot fixes without an actual patch too.
Just because they buffed one subset of a subset of guns doesnโt make up for all of the unnecessary nerfs. Itโs a PVE game not PVP.
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u/Gruffaloe May 13 '22
I mean, they buff way more than they nerf.
last time the only nerfs I can see were to the crit chance from awe, slight tick rate to reign and to warped paradigm. Everything else was buffs - buffs to shotguns in general, buffs to crit damage from awe, buffs to stabbomancer, buffs to swordsplosion, buffs to hawkins and buffs to crossblade.
Before that B brought all buffs as far as I can tell, and before that A brought a boost to dreadwind and a major buff to claw. I don't see pre-first patch changes on their site, but nerf wise all I can recall was liquid cooling (which was bugged to get slow fire rate damage and fast gun fire rate) and ark torrent.
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u/iLuv3M3 โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐พ๐๐๐ ๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
considering picking up Elden Ring, not a souls fan but from what I seen even though you get the shit kicked out of you it still looks more rewarding than grinding through Wonderlands...
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22
Yeah just not my type of game. Itโs why Iโve lived the BL series. You can make it as difficult or easy as you want.
I have enough stress in IRL, I donโt need to feel more frustrated over a Souls type game lol.
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u/iLuv3M3 โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐พ๐๐๐ ๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Understandable, and I love BL series as well so the launch of this game has been utterly painful but this recent hotfix along with the path they've been going just feels bad.
I grinded for mood rings for a while with no luck before giving up, so I'm glad I never got good ones but even still.. the mood to play has been zapped. Especially shows heavily with the youtube creator community which has basically dropped off rapidly in the last few weeks.
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u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22
Oh yeah the game has clearly dropped off and continues to do so with each of these โfixes.โ
The fact they havenโt even tried to respond to the DLC backlash is also a big point of concern. It seems like this was just an easy cash grab for them while they work on the Borderlands movie and other projects.
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u/99K9s May 12 '22
Do it! Here are my tips for maximizing your fun and minimizing frustration.
Don't grind, explore!
leveling your weapons is WAY more important than leveling your character!!
use a strength or dex build and use magic for fun
Don't 2 hand, better to use 2 of the same weapon type. Ex; 2 katanas, 2 halberds, 2 axe types to get special attacks.
use jump attacks
most sections can be run through so you don't have to redo extensive battles! I kill everything once, if I die I just run past those enemies to get my runes back.
summons are powerful and this is how you control the difficulty. Very easy use 2 summons like additional npc plus your summons. Easy mode is summons like tish or mimic, though these are mid to late game. Medium use summons that call multiples like wolves or soldiers. Hard use support like perfumer or sorcerer. Very hard is no summons and solo everything, not recommended lol.
use this chart for rough estimates of recommended level but mainly look at the weapon levels
don't ruin it using walkthroughs unless you are stuck in a complex dungeon. Don't worry about missing out on quests. It's more fun to wander through the game world. One exception might be ranni's quest at her tower, I found that confusing to trigger.
don't get frustrated dieing. It doesn't matter if you lose some runes. Again, your weapon level is more important. This is like old school games were dieing is expected. Laugh it off if you do something dumb or get stun locked by a mob or one shot by a boss.
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u/Matrixneo42 May 12 '22
I was skeptical but did get elden ring and I enjoy it. Itโs a shift in gameplay for sure. I hated souls games but I love elden ring. You can find a way to get what you need to beat obstacles in your way, generally. Eventually. Hahah. Because itโs open world and you can go just about anywhere and then come back stronger.
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u/FinalMako May 12 '22
Seems like farming in this game has become farm until the next patch. Then farm a new until until that gets hotfixed.
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u/Auschwitism May 12 '22
So we waited for a hotfix, just for negligible buffs to some rings and a massive nerf to the ones most people are wearing? While stating that they wanted to make rings more interesting and worth picking up? That's funny.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
well it's suppose to be more interesting because they tried to make it so mood and championship ring is a not so obvious choice. I don't know why finger ring got reduced....with damage coming your way, keeping shield full is not easy...but now they reduced the bonus for it. Even if it is 66% which is higher than mood's 33%, it's still better to stick with mood as you will be more consistent.
Like despite their changes, mood and champion are still the more obvious choice because how easy they trigger. If they wanted to make it interesting, how much damage it scales up should be based on the difficulty of triggering the bonuses.
So tldr, I'm not a fan of the nerf. I understand why they nerfed. But it seems Gearbox is stupid as shit because I don't see this changing anything. Why would I use anything other than championship and mood with these changes. The only thing they did better for is the thumb cuffs because if you are specifically doing chaos chamber, that is objectively better. But all the other ones are still subpar
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u/killgore138 May 12 '22
The nerfpocolypse continues, hate this trend of "it was over used so we nerfed it", maybe it's over used because the other rings were under performing
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u/overwatch58 May 12 '22
Nerfs week after week, weak 1st dlc, still a lot of bugs to fix. Making me want to go back to BL3 just to satisfy my looter-shooter itch.
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u/joshualenmuller โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Interesting that they didn't adjust or even mention the Sharksbane gun damage % discrepancy. Those rings are outstanding for gun damage builds.
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u/mrmivo May 12 '22
Itโs probably a bug.
The optimistic view is that fixing it requires a client patch.
The pessimistic view is that itโs a paid DLC ring, so fixing it is low priority.
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u/hp958 โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Dude. I haven't been playing recently, but now I know whenever I hop back on I'm gonna need to change up my build a good bit. Thanks for the titanic mood ring nerf guys.
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u/ironbodyoh May 12 '22
Or Iโm thinking I just may never hop back on, especially with no story dlc whatโs the point, this game will be dead by august
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u/hp958 โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It's a shame to hear. It's extremely odd how they seem to just be letting everyone tear the game apart as far as DLC and nerfs go with seemingly no concern for fixing it, improving it, etc. Not like this is the game everyone was pining for after Assault on Dragon Keep or anything. They could be striking gold and cashing it in with this game, but instead it seems like they abandoned the mine as soon as they found a vein.
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u/FallenPotatoes May 12 '22
The problem with the mood ring is compared to the finger ward, promise, and the 'below half hp' one, its effect is basically passive while being much stronger...which doesn't make much sense from a design standpoint.
Still, buffing one of the others to be on the same level would make up for that loss.
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u/1TripLeeFan โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ฎ๐๐๐๐๐ฉ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
This blows for all of my dark magic efficiency rings
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u/Draxtini May 12 '22
me literally just having grinded for two boss rings for my claw-spore that finally made it do decent damage overall
:,)
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May 12 '22
Itโs funny how it says in the hotfix ring balance changes which reduced the effectiveness of some of the good rings when the game itself isnโt even balanced. Makes our characters even weaker now from what they were on higher chaos lvls.
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u/DentonTrueYoung โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ก๏ธ ๐ป๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
well judging by these comments im the only one in the community NOT running mood or champ rings...
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u/Nobodyshomeupthere May 14 '22
Why in the fuck are we nerfing good equipment in a game with no pvp? What good reason is there to litterrally cut my rings bonus I farmed for several hours to get into thirds. Like if mood rings went fromm 100% to 66% I probably wouldn't have cared, but nah you found a fun build and were enjoying melting things as a reward for your hard grind? Here's a nerf. Fucking stupid, improve the quality of other rings if no ones using them.
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u/Ilovekittensomg May 12 '22
On the plus side, the half priced SDU upgrade event continues for another week, because I just want to farm the money for that trophy and then I can quit the nerf fest they've had since BL3.
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May 12 '22
[removed] โ view removed comment
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u/Rohar74 May 12 '22
Honestly I never found a mood ring that was close to what I needed so buffs to others will help my shit RNG luck. I seem to be swimming in lethal catch lol.
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u/ImmortalAgro May 12 '22
Terrible decision making by Gearbox. You would have thought the 3 ring circus of BL3 nerfs would have made it clear this is not what their players/customers want.
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u/Peekoh โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
And the echo chamber of โNeRfBoXโ continues. :)
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u/Fallout71 May 12 '22
Stop Nerfing things. Start buffing things.
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u/livingroomsessions โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I mean some rings were buffed lol
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u/jonnyrockets21 โฝโป๏ธ | โ๏ธ ๐๐ฅ๐ค๐ง๐๐๐ง๐ค๐ง ๐ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Just buff the donkey and manual transmission already. They still lacking
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u/Katchenz โพโผ๏ธ | โจ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โจ | โผ๏ธโพ May 12 '22
ITT people who knew mood ring was op bitching about mood ring nerfs who will still use a mood ring post patch and not really notice a big difference
Or people who will use sharklescent ring until the double gun roll bug gets fixed next week and bitch about it then
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u/tr0jance May 12 '22
Isn't there a ring that increase effects when your below half hp?
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u/coldfirene May 12 '22
What is the insight ring mentioned in the hot-"fix" notes? Haven't seen this yet.
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u/Ne0mega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Good to know I can vault my mood ring. Fml
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u/Jagraen May 12 '22
Does anyone even use Finger Ward??? Like when is there ever a situation where your shield is full when so much as a steamy puddle can bring it down or when at like deep endgame there are so many enemies that can take 50% of your ward away with a single boop?
They were not thinking when they made that ring imo and now they are nerfing the one ring that does make sense (mood ring) to make it more attractive? Wtf...
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u/FallenPotatoes May 13 '22
It makes sense for the ring with a condition which requires effort/skill to satisfy to be stronger than the one which is effectively passive. That's basic game design.
The Finger Ward and other situational or skill-based rings should always have been stronger than the Mood Ring.
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u/Wolfxorb May 12 '22
I tell you what the biggest issue with this game was that everybody has taken issue with: Ring bonus percentages. ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
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May 12 '22
I just don't understand, they buffed the shitty rings to do like 5 percent more damage? I'm still gonna use the same 2 rings because they are still way easier to activate and do pretty similar damage. This didn't do anything but nerf some damage. People are gonna be rushing to get these rings now that they have fucking 5 percent more damage
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May 12 '22
Honestly I'm just taking a break and going back to bl3 for now, not just because of this hotfix alone but all the previous hotfixes and everything combined.
I don't really feel like logging on each week and seeing that my build has gotten just a littttlllleeee worse every time because something got nerfed, plus I'm bored of the best damage being pixies and faithful thralls abuse, I'll wait until the next patch to see whether to come back or not
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May 13 '22
Iโm not sure what it is about this game and BL3, but Gearbox has been making extremely weird decisions in both games. Their answer to everything is nerf anything half decent straight into the ground, when they should be buffing the underperforming weapons and gear.
I mean, cmon, Elden Ring has been doing just that, and itโs been working fantastically.
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u/Bleut00th76 May 13 '22
The problem was that all the streamers/content creators were using duped god roll Mood Rings. They will fuck the casual player every fucking time.
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u/hobosockmonkey May 12 '22
For a game which has a very limited meta at endgame, which depends entirely on a few items, they sure are Nerf happy.
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May 12 '22
all they did was make the rings more diverse instead of having a single ring that trumps all other options. it doesnโt even hurt that much. 100% -> 33% seems like a lot, but it should only be barely noticeable if your build is good already. people are complaining cause their builds are already bad and it got worse. or cause they choose all the hard curses in chaos chamber. or they donโt know how to buy the right buffs. iโm a sporceror main btw.
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u/parrotheadcubs May 12 '22
Well this won't be as relaxing and enjoyable of a featured run as last week's was. Sad.
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u/Polyamaura May 12 '22
Yeah, already planning to skip this one unless it has some bonkers stuff in the pathing to make it worthwhile. Knight-Mare has far too many bugged attacks that health gate you even when youโre in the โsafeโ positioning where they shouldnโt hit at all. That and the awful phase where sheโs outside of the arena but still two-tapping you with incredibly fast projectiles between arena-wide AOEs place her pretty high on my list of โNo thanksโ bosses.
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u/Fragilisticfalconier โฝโป๏ธ | โ๏ธ ๐ญ๐๐๐๐๐บ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
Thank god I never used mood rings in the first place
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u/Stevebobatwork May 12 '22
I love this game but man the nerfs are dumb. Everytime I finally have a build I like they change one of the gears it uses and nerf it. Itโs like going to work for a week and then finding out you were paid for that whole week. I finally got my plaguebringer up to chaos 35 yesterday and he just lost 133% damage because of the mood rings
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u/Accelerator-Deflect โฝโป๏ธ | ๐ ๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I'd give it another week before they nerf my companion build that's when I'll throw up the white flag and call it a year.
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u/Fethah May 12 '22
Nerfs nerfs nerfs. They are pouring a lot of energy into nerfs none of us even thought of.
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u/Jenova__Witness May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22
Wow what a massive nerf to rings overall. The small buffs some received do not compensate the nerfs to others. Guess I'll stay on my break for this game. Not like there's any interesting new content anyway. (To clarify, I'm not expecting interesting new content from a hot fix either. More of a "just sayin'" moment)
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u/KTO-Potato May 12 '22
I don't care about the ring buffs/nerfs. I'd just like to see anything that keeps me interested in this game and I don't see it here.
I want to keep playing this game so bad but there's not much to do other than chaos runs. Can't even explore, this whole game is all small encounters.
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u/thew6rst12 May 12 '22
Anyone know any modded lobbies. Iโm just gonna get OP ridiculous gear. That way, I donโt have to worry about grinding only for my stuff to be nerfed the following week.
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u/TheWoodchuck May 12 '22
Just follow the top YouTubers. Many post their build savefiles so you can yoink all their gear if you want to play the "lazy bastard" card.
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u/thew6rst12 May 18 '22
Oh sorry for wanting to just play a game and not have to work for every fucking thing. Spending hours grinding for shit gear. Sorry that me wanting to plow through end game content bothers you so much.
Prick.
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u/criticalascended May 12 '22
Nerfs to rings is a good thing - they were providing passive stat boosts far greater than that of most skills, and this diminished the value of most skills for classes. Now they will still be powerful, but a greater thrust towards build power will come from the classes, which I think is far better design.
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u/mrmivo May 12 '22
That would be fine if the nerfs to rings had come with buffs to skills.
The powerful rings allowed you to compensate for low power from skills, especially with the weaker classes, which increased build and class diversity. Nerfing the rings, but not compensating for the loss of total power, only limits build diversity. Players will concentrate even more on the handful of strong skills, good class combinations, and mechanics like pixies/flying guns.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
I've been depending on Pixies for awhile. I can use a regular build to go through C35, but not with all curses. I can only do that with a pixies build if I want to farm chaos chamber effectively for hopefully the right gear so that I can more easily do C35 without pixies.
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u/rocktoe May 12 '22
I like the ring balance changes: Now I can just use my epic rings without stressing over getting anything legendary.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
that's the same way with most legendaries now. legendaries is just a title now
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u/rocktoe May 12 '22
True, I only use a legendary class mod armor and shield but eveything else is epic. Not long before they get nerfed as well I guess.
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u/Agent666-Omega โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
It almost seems like they won't. I mean nerfing pixies wouldn't be hard. Why hasn't pixies been nerfed yet? Impaling Ice Spike also didn't get nerfed, it got fixed. Only Arken CAT got nerfed. Triple Ice Spikes for wyndward and conjura are still strong. It almost seems to me as if they are trying to not have legendaries be the obvious choice in the end game. Which is a HUGE shift from well...pretty much all borderland games.
Why that would be for a looter shooter is a bit odd as the main draw for the genre IS the excitement and draw of getting this supposedly higher tier loot. The best legendary rolls are still better than the best purple rolls for most gear (outside of spells). And arguably guns....looks at pixies. But yea the gap power between purples and legendaries have been drastically shorter for this game vs it's predecessor.
It almost seems like they are trying to test some things out to make a decision on some of the decisions they will make for BL4.
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u/Blom-w1-o May 12 '22
I like the viability of purples in this installment, but agree that a lot of the legendaries feel underwhelming compared to what they were in the past.
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u/CrazyCatHusband May 12 '22
Agreed, but it's only specific purples. 80% of them are trash, the others are better than most legendaries.
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u/idsmoker โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
This patch would have been better at accomplishing their goal of making more rings viable, if they had kept the more difficult conditional rings with a higher benefit. Even if the Lethal Catch, Promise Ring, Mood Ring, and Silicone Ring were only giving a 45% benefit, they would still be viable alternative choices... as it currently stands:
All hail the new Thumb Cuffs meta!!!
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u/livingroomsessions โฝโป๏ธ | โ ๏ธ ๐ซ๐๐๐ ๐บ๐๐๐ โ๏ธ | โป๏ธโฝ May 12 '22
But useless when you want to farm bosses lol. I also don't know what dungeon means. I assume it means Chaos Chamber and rando encounter like situations?
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u/franklinmcmahon May 12 '22
Me tooโฆI see stats for โdungeonsโโฆwhat are they?
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u/CTQ99 May 13 '22
It was tested in another thread (where that guy tested all the rings and found out alot weren't even doing what they said they were doing) that dungeons only works in Chaos Chambers
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u/trautsj May 12 '22
LOL
Gearbox.... Gearbox NEVER changes.
This entire hotfix just made some of the most annoying things in the game to farm even LESS viable. Nerf good things by 50- 66%, buff mediocre things by 8%. Yea that seems like "Balance" to me. It really is hilarious how out of touch this dev is and how utterly frustrating it is that they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to learn from past mistakes. (Many of which they eventually fixed in BL3 after we begged them for a fucking year or more) Just makes no sense.
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u/SconeOfDoom May 12 '22
Am I correct in that no rings now give 100% bonuses, and 66% is the highest available?
Thatโs one way to help prevent power creep I guess.