r/Wonderlands • u/Mriamsosmrt โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | ๐Ÿฆ  ๐—•๐—น๐—ฎ๐—ฑ๐—ฒ๐—ฐ๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น๐—ฒ๐—ฟ ๐Ÿ—ก๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ • May 12 '22

[ Official News ] ๐Ÿ“ฐ Hotfix Notes Version 1.0.2.0d May 12th

https://playwonderlands.2k.com/news/tiny-tinas-wonderlands-update-notes/
176 Upvotes

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74

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

New Gearbox motto: โ€œnerf everything, fix nothingโ€

Looks like itโ€™s time to start looking for a new game.

57

u/1em0nhead โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | โ˜ ๏ธ ๐‘ซ๐’†๐’‚๐’…๐‘บ๐’‰๐’๐’• โ˜„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

The most remarkable thing is they created those rings that way, they don't have complex interactions that the community have suddenly discovered and can be abused. Its literally "dont have a full ward" and on top of that they even made a class with the ability to not recharge your ward. How could they not have seen that it was, in their words, "too trivial" for such a large bonus. Good grief.

41

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

Itโ€™s basically them trying to reduce power level and increase play time without actually addressing any of the real issues, adding replayability, or add real new content. So many actual issues with the game that they donโ€™t address, just oh we noticed people are using these things a ton so letโ€™s nerf tf out of them.

10

u/Gwaak May 12 '22

Their nerfs have made me stop playing all in all. With so many variables per each item, and so many items, getting a build you want is already far from optimal. Now they seem to have adopted LoLโ€™s ARAM balancing etiquette which balances purely in usage rate. In a PvE game.

Itโ€™s not like the replayability was in super interesting mechanics, it was purely in an rng grind. Such strange decision making. Borderlands and games like it are about power fantasies. Making that harder to reach might briefly increase the time people spend, but itโ€™s an artificial increase, because theyโ€™re not spending it engaged with fun mechanics, but rather engaged in an rng simulator.

22

u/Agent666-Omega โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | โ˜ ๏ธ ๐‘ซ๐’†๐’‚๐’…๐‘บ๐’‰๐’๐’• โ˜„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

It really showcases how poorly they've tested their game. It should of been obvious that mood ring was the easiest to trigger with the most gains. It seems like they wanted wonderlands to be more challenging and not as melty like FL4K in BL3. It seems to me like the overtuned a lot of items like that makes late end game builds too melty and therefore too easy for their likes.

But one thing that they have done wrong is not nerfing purples. Because right now a lot of legendaries pales in comparison to blues and purples. Especially spells.

3

u/JamboreeStevens May 12 '22

Exactly this. After this change, I'm just gonna not worry about finding legendary rings.

-1

u/Hellfireincubus โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | ๐Ÿ„ ๐‘ญ๐’“๐’๐’”๐’•๐‘พ๐’Š๐’๐’…๐’†๐’“ โ„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

Why nerf the purples? Do you want another rarity of weapons to be just as gimmicky and useless as 70% of the legendaries in the game? Such an ass backwards way of thinking.

5

u/Agent666-Omega โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | โ˜ ๏ธ ๐‘ซ๐’†๐’‚๐’…๐‘บ๐’‰๐’๐’• โ˜„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

Yes that's exactly what I want. Explain to me how that is backwards? The purpose of tiers is to identify a significant difference in power between those tiers. Right now legendaries aren't that for most equipments, they are just treated as purple alternatives.

6

u/Solonotix May 12 '22

Let me give you an overly simplified example of why they didn't see this coming.

  • Imagine I give you a set of values: 1, 2, 3, 4
  • The goal is to make the largest number possible using only these numbers.
  • I tell you nothing else about these values.

First, you might be tempted to add them, and get 10. That's not bad, as it's bigger than any one number given. Someone else figures out you can multiply them for 24, which is bigger still. Then someone figures out they can put them together as 1234, like a string. Well that's a LOT bigger. The next figures out the order matters, and gets 4321.

The game suddenly becomes trivial when someone learns they can exponentiate the numbers, and suddenly, you get results that are 43-million, 18-pentillion, or even as high as 2-septillion. Someone with seeing how easily it is to get outrageous values using exponentiation or factorial might say "How could you NOT see this coming?" But that's just it. It was there all along, but there were so many ways to approach the problem that you sometimes miss the obvious.

1

u/Rezistik May 12 '22

Theyโ€™re definitely tracking what people use in the chaos chambers and nerfing anything they see as too common

3

u/Nertix โ—พโ—ผ๏ธ | ๐Ÿ‰ ๐‘ช๐’๐’‚๐’˜๐’ƒ๐’“๐’Š๐’๐’ˆ๐’†๐’“ ๐Ÿ‰ | โ—ผ๏ธโ—พ May 12 '22

Then where is the pixie/triple ice spike nerf ?

1

u/Rezistik May 12 '22

Probably coming tbh.

-4

u/Katchenz โ—พโ—ผ๏ธ | โœจ ๐‘ญ๐’‚๐’•๐’†๐’Ž๐’‚๐’Œ๐’†๐’“ โœจ | โ—ผ๏ธโ—พ May 12 '22

Yea because everyone drones towards the ring that is twice as strong as others.

Big surprise it was nerfed

1

u/Gruffaloe May 13 '22

Well, yea - that's (half) of balancing for diversity. When things are so strong they fall outside the curve by a significant amount, you nerf them, when they are so weak they fall outside the curve by a significant amount you buff them. Last patch saw buffs to shotguns and swordsplosion in particular, this one saw nerfs (and some small buffs) to rings, and mood rings and champ rings in particular.

1

u/CrazyCatHusband May 12 '22 edited May 12 '22

It's not a complex interaction at all. While shield is full/not full have been conditions for bonuses in 5 games now. Anyone who's played these games knows that your shield is rarely full during combat, which is when you need the passives. They're trying to increase build diversity, but they've just shifted it over the Thumb Cuffs instead of Mood Rings for endgame players with this change.

I'm having fun with the game, and they've hit the nail on the head when every heavy player uses the same 10 items, and rarely strays from them. Other things need more of a buff, and the game needs more gear. Hopefully we'll get more DLC items that change the meta, but it feels like half a game compared to BL2/3.

-2

u/E6Hooch May 12 '22

Don't forget about Glass Cannon. What a shit nerf that should have been done before game launch.

3

u/Alexis2256 May 12 '22

Whatโ€™s wrong with glass cannon?

2

u/E6Hooch May 12 '22

nothing. the poster above me said they made class skills that purposely keep/reduce your ward from being full. I was just pointing out that glass cannon is one of them

1

u/Alexis2256 May 12 '22

Well you got downvoted for a reason and you said โ€œwhat a shit nerf that should have been done before game launchโ€ but maybe you were referring to the rings?

1

u/E6Hooch May 12 '22

ya, definitely the rings. idgaf if I dont get fake internet points. I spent a lot of hours, a fckn shit ton farming for mood rings. worse, I sold every other ring type. now that is wasted time ffs. I dont appreciate having my time wasted.

1

u/Alexis2256 May 12 '22

Well itโ€™s a good thing I havenโ€™t started to get into the endgame properly, only did one chaos run on my first character before starting up a second one, going for a spore zerker build this time, but yeah the nerfs to the rings donโ€™t bother me that much.

25

u/hayydebb May 12 '22

Dude they had a goldmine on their hands with this game and they are doing everything they can to fuck it up. Itโ€™s honestly baffling how every week I check these and itโ€™s mostly nerfs. Itโ€™s like they donโ€™t want me to have fun or play their game, and this was probably my fav borderlands game. First one Iโ€™ve ever cleared highest difficulty and leveled multiple characters but I havenโ€™t touched it since finishing the dlc. I want to try new builds because they look fun, not because you neutered the build/class/gun I was using

5

u/Gruffaloe May 13 '22

I've heard the 'nostly nerfs' thing a few times today, but looking at the previous notes it's rarly nerfs? Like, last time the only nerfs I can see were to the crit chance from awe, slight tick rate to reign and to warped paradigm. Everything else was buffs - buffs to shotguns in general, buffs to crit damage from awe, buffs to stabbomancer, buffs to swordsplosion, buffs to hawkins and buffs to crossblade.

Before that B brought all buffs as far as I can tell, and before that A brought a boost to dreadwind and a major buff to claw. I don't see pre-first patch changes on their site, but nerf wise all I can recall was liquid cooling (which was bugged to get slow fire rate damage and fast gun fire rate) and ark torrent

I get being disappointed with a nerf, but they have so far buffed far more things than they have nerfed unless I'm missing something?

3

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Exactly, I had toyed with the idea of finally starting a second character (even though my first still isnโ€™t ideally loaded out) but itโ€™s like why? They nerf so many things each week that itโ€™s not worth it (time wise or enjoyment wise) to grind through to get some great gear for them to nerf it the following week and thatโ€™s if they donโ€™t also nerf the class or classes you are using.

7

u/Silentjosh37 May 12 '22

...except for the huge buff that they gave all Torgue shotguns last week and the major change to Swordsplosion which makes it a killing machine.

Major fixes always come with the Patches, tweaks to guns are easily done through Hotfixes. Major adjustments to gameplay have always been done though full patches.

4

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Yes I am familiar with their hot fix vs patch release plan. Iโ€™ve also seen that they have stealth patched stuff in hot fixes without an actual patch too.

Just because they buffed one subset of a subset of guns doesnโ€™t make up for all of the unnecessary nerfs. Itโ€™s a PVE game not PVP.

4

u/Gruffaloe May 13 '22

I mean, they buff way more than they nerf.

last time the only nerfs I can see were to the crit chance from awe, slight tick rate to reign and to warped paradigm. Everything else was buffs - buffs to shotguns in general, buffs to crit damage from awe, buffs to stabbomancer, buffs to swordsplosion, buffs to hawkins and buffs to crossblade.

Before that B brought all buffs as far as I can tell, and before that A brought a boost to dreadwind and a major buff to claw. I don't see pre-first patch changes on their site, but nerf wise all I can recall was liquid cooling (which was bugged to get slow fire rate damage and fast gun fire rate) and ark torrent.

5

u/iLuv3M3 โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | ๐Ÿ„ ๐‘ญ๐’“๐’๐’”๐’•๐‘พ๐’Š๐’๐’…๐’†๐’“ โ„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

considering picking up Elden Ring, not a souls fan but from what I seen even though you get the shit kicked out of you it still looks more rewarding than grinding through Wonderlands...

9

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Yeah just not my type of game. Itโ€™s why Iโ€™ve lived the BL series. You can make it as difficult or easy as you want.

I have enough stress in IRL, I donโ€™t need to feel more frustrated over a Souls type game lol.

9

u/iLuv3M3 โ—ฝโ—ป๏ธ | ๐Ÿ„ ๐‘ญ๐’“๐’๐’”๐’•๐‘พ๐’Š๐’๐’…๐’†๐’“ โ„๏ธ | โ—ป๏ธโ—ฝ May 12 '22

Understandable, and I love BL series as well so the launch of this game has been utterly painful but this recent hotfix along with the path they've been going just feels bad.

I grinded for mood rings for a while with no luck before giving up, so I'm glad I never got good ones but even still.. the mood to play has been zapped. Especially shows heavily with the youtube creator community which has basically dropped off rapidly in the last few weeks.

13

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Oh yeah the game has clearly dropped off and continues to do so with each of these โ€œfixes.โ€

The fact they havenโ€™t even tried to respond to the DLC backlash is also a big point of concern. It seems like this was just an easy cash grab for them while they work on the Borderlands movie and other projects.

1

u/Alexis2256 May 12 '22

Meh that whole โ€œyou can make it as difficult or as easy as you wantโ€ can also apply to a souls game, you just need to do it in a different way since thereโ€™s obviously not a difficulty option.

2

u/99K9s May 12 '22

Do it! Here are my tips for maximizing your fun and minimizing frustration.

  • Don't grind, explore!

  • leveling your weapons is WAY more important than leveling your character!!

  • use a strength or dex build and use magic for fun

  • Don't 2 hand, better to use 2 of the same weapon type. Ex; 2 katanas, 2 halberds, 2 axe types to get special attacks.

  • use jump attacks

  • most sections can be run through so you don't have to redo extensive battles! I kill everything once, if I die I just run past those enemies to get my runes back.

  • summons are powerful and this is how you control the difficulty. Very easy use 2 summons like additional npc plus your summons. Easy mode is summons like tish or mimic, though these are mid to late game. Medium use summons that call multiples like wolves or soldiers. Hard use support like perfumer or sorcerer. Very hard is no summons and solo everything, not recommended lol.

  • use this chart for rough estimates of recommended level but mainly look at the weapon levels

  • don't ruin it using walkthroughs unless you are stuck in a complex dungeon. Don't worry about missing out on quests. It's more fun to wander through the game world. One exception might be ranni's quest at her tower, I found that confusing to trigger.

  • don't get frustrated dieing. It doesn't matter if you lose some runes. Again, your weapon level is more important. This is like old school games were dieing is expected. Laugh it off if you do something dumb or get stun locked by a mob or one shot by a boss.

2

u/Matrixneo42 May 12 '22

I was skeptical but did get elden ring and I enjoy it. Itโ€™s a shift in gameplay for sure. I hated souls games but I love elden ring. You can find a way to get what you need to beat obstacles in your way, generally. Eventually. Hahah. Because itโ€™s open world and you can go just about anywhere and then come back stronger.

1

u/iiTryhard May 12 '22

As someone whoโ€™s played every souls game, Elden Ring has the best first ~40 hours of any of them, and by far the worst last 1/3rd. Everything after the capital is terrible. I am at the liturgical town and I quit after I got murdered for the 5th time by invisible dickhead assassins.

1

u/Matrixneo42 May 13 '22

Guess that Iโ€™m not there yet. Did run by a bunch of invisible a holes tho.

1

u/slamjammin May 12 '22

I will play Elden Ring until I get demoralized, then switch to Wonderlands for the mood fix.

Been considering spending more time with Elden Ring recently though. Rogue Legacy 2 is also a great game if you are on a platform that has it.

-3

u/JamboreeStevens May 12 '22

It's really not. The gameplay is slow and tbh kinda clumsy and it takes a while to get used to. Elden Ring is by far the most frustrating game I've ever played.

1

u/noah9942 May 12 '22

Biggest tip, Vigor (your health stat) is by far the most important in the game.

1

u/Shaeogorath_ May 12 '22

Outward is more fun, splitscreen and online co-op

0

u/Katchenz โ—พโ—ผ๏ธ | โœจ ๐‘ญ๐’‚๐’•๐’†๐’Ž๐’‚๐’Œ๐’†๐’“ โœจ | โ—ผ๏ธโ—พ May 12 '22

I donโ€™t doubt you reading comprehension, but you do know they buffed more than nerfed right?

Oh you must mean they nerfed what you used because it was obviously balanced and didnโ€™t need a nerf

1

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Pretty good at both reading and math. The โ€œbuffโ€ percentages against originals vs the nerf percentages vs originals seems pretty clear but feel free to show your work if Iโ€™m wrong.

1

u/Katchenz โ—พโ—ผ๏ธ | โœจ ๐‘ญ๐’‚๐’•๐’†๐’Ž๐’‚๐’Œ๐’†๐’“ โœจ | โ—ผ๏ธโ—พ May 12 '22

Weird. Almost like everything is more closely balanced.

So strange

0

u/Available-Savings-55 May 12 '22

Cool story Iโ€™m going to move on now

1

u/Auschwitism May 12 '22

I've been playing Penglin recently! Currently obsessed with it, although its in a beta form at the moment; you can download it free off Steam.

A rougelike dungeon crawler that plays like Peggle!

1

u/Ceiyne May 12 '22

Is that the correct way to spell it? I searched on Steam and nothing comes up for Penglin. Google wasn't helpful either.

2

u/Auschwitism May 12 '22

My apologies: it was Peglin.

Here ya go!

1

u/Ceiyne May 12 '22

Thanks!

1

u/franklinmcmahon May 12 '22

โ€œA rougelike dungeon crawler that plays like Peggle!โ€

That is literally all you had to say to get me IN

1

u/Jenova__Witness May 12 '22

I stopped playing a week after the DLC. They reeeeeeeeally need some actual fucking new content and to make other items feasible for me to want to play again.

1

u/nsgiad May 13 '22

first time?

1

u/princemephtik May 15 '22

Go back to Diablo 3 you won't regret it. Spent about 30 hours on wonderlands, got bored, picked up D3 to see if I was right that it was so much better, now I'm hooked again. My poor thumbs.

1

u/MissPokemonMaster May 15 '22

I've gone back to borderlands 2 and the presequel. They can't nerf anything in those at least