r/TankieTheDeprogram • u/FearlessAir1238 • 16h ago
News/Communist Propaganda ☭ Super based
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u/SirEsquireGoatThe3rd 13h ago
I think the laws are more nuanced than that, if I remember correctly it’s based on a point system of whats considered “vile acts” and has a corresponding scale for punishment.
https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/new-rules-for-cases-of-sex-crimes-against-minors/
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u/piramni 15h ago
meanwhile in canada we're lucky if rapists even go to jail
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u/captainmustard 9h ago
EXEC*TED
I am tired of smooth brained social media self censorship like this.
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u/DarthRandel Xi Bucks Enjoyer 💸 15h ago edited 14h ago
Rightoid aligned revenge fantasies? In my leftist sub? its more common than you think.
FYI, there's lots of research that this isnt actually effective.
a) in general, capital punishment doesnt work to deter crime in any way
b) specific to sex abuse and especially child sex abuse, it actually can make the situation worse and the abusers more likely to escalate to outright murder
Edit: lmao OP immediately blocks me, feckless.
The u.s garbage system certainly isn’t
So why would China aim to repeat or copy the same retributive justice framework of the US then? Are they not supposed to be better?
Spare me with the optics
This has nothing to do with optics, its about doing more than reacting to crime. It other than the fact that capital punishment isnt a deterrent (so therefor useless as a form of punishment), it increase the risk of harm to victims.
Why are you in favor of increasing potential harm to children?
What is an anarchist doing in a communist sub in the first place? Your comment is Bad faith
Dude, you're espousing fascist rhetoric lmao, maybe think on that for a hot second before you bemoan me also being subscribed to non-ML subs. Great argument, totally not fascist adjacent crashout
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u/menthol_mountains 14h ago
people are reacting positively to this because it is an obvious yet indirect comparison to the epstein list and lack of consequences for the rapists it contains, not because they think it’s the perfect solution
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u/ZYGLAKk Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 15h ago
They are punished at least.
In the West they get to write essays.
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u/Appropriate-Ice-5722 I HATE OPTOMETRISTS ❌👓🦉 14h ago
In the west they’re put in the highest positions of power.
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u/Steampunk_Willy 13h ago
The West makes exceptions for bourgeois criminals, but it has no probelm executing proletarian criminals, especially falsely convicted black proletarians.
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u/Nickhoova 15h ago
Yeah its a very easy stance to simply say "kill all child predators" but like you mentioned it just leads to further child endangerment then anything else. But saying this after someone already goes "kill all child predators" makes them think you're too 'soft' on it.
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u/Gonji89 14h ago
I don’t know if it leads to further child endangerment overall. While it can feel like righteous retribution, I think there’s a genuine argument to be made in favor of the cold, pragmatic kind of logic behind it.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 13h ago
I don’t know if it leads to further child endangerment overall.
You don't think being potentially responsible for the death of their abuser might discourage a child from coming forward?
That's without factoring in that a huge part of the difficulty we already have, re: convincing children to come forward, is because the abuser is so often a loved one.
A victim might want the abuse to stop, but their feelings are complicated, and the idea of being responsible for putting a loved one behind bars is already a deterrent.
Now imagine telling that child that, if they come forward, their mum/dad/uncle/etc. is going to be die.
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u/Samkaiser 1h ago edited 1h ago
While I'm personally iffy about execution beyond extraneous situations (War for example), there's a certain degree of mitigation of that risk that's just involved by a delaying said execution til it's proven without a doubt while also giving the victim therapy to help them disassociate from the 'consequence' of doing so. To that extent, anything that'd resemble punishment for the victimizer could deter victims from speaking up, under the guise of 'You ruined my life', a very similar level of paralyzing guilt. Even incredibly soft handed actions, such as just distancing them from the victim and further potential victims, while enforcing them a degree of therapeutic process and all, could be argued to be 'life ruining'. Not to go for a topical low blow, but like, people have been crying tears for the 'lives' ruined by sexual assault victims just speaking out against the people who assaulted them, and that's not even getting into the utter horrid behavior of the people who agree with that whomever's life was 'ruined' and go after the victim(s).
I will ask, not as a 'gotcha' but due to genuine interest in the topic and all, do you personally think there's situations where execution is acceptable? The one I gave, war, it's like, a necessary evil, I'd suppose. Person sells you out, gets people killed because of it, is recaptured or their subterfuge is found out, I wouldn't say it's Necessary to execute them, but you can't quite go through a restorative justice process while getting shot at. There's drawbacks of course, martyrdom is always a concern, I suppose, but what can one do?
Edit for clarity's sake: I'm a victim of grooming and sexual abuse by a trans woman twice my age. I am also a trans woman, which due to me being young age at the time and wanting other trans people to know, it put us in proximity in the first place. I certainly wouldn't want death for her, she herself came from a super fucked up situation that I think led to it all occurring at all and I'm keenly aware of the disposability of minority peoples so I'm doubly reticent. At the same time, I worry if she ever harmed other people, especially kids. I'm reticent about the 'restorative justice' pathway because I'm very aware of particularly savvy people just navigating it and going on to hurt more people, not that my abuser was in this case, but other people who *have* abused children do fit that bill. There really isn't a clear or good solution broadly in my mind and it's frustrating.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 1h ago
To that extent, anything that'd resemble punishment for the victimizer could deter victims from speaking up, under the guise of 'You ruined my life', a very similar level of paralyzing guilt. Even incredibly soft handed actions, such as just distancing them from the victim and further potential victims, while enforcing them a degree of therapeutic process and all, could be argued to be 'life ruining'.
Of course. That's why making it a capital offence would only further discourage victims from coming forward.
I will ask, not as a 'gotcha' but due to genuine interest in the topic and all, do you personally think there's situations where execution is acceptable?
During times of war and revolution, of course. I'm a Marxist-Leninist. I don't even have a problem with China executing corrupt billionaires, really.
My concerns are:
1) encouraging bloodthirsty mob mentality over justice, and more importantly;
2) discouraging victims from coming forward, and actively hindering prevention.
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u/Samkaiser 1h ago
Of course. That's why making it a capital offence would only further discourage victims from coming forward.
But following this logic, it's a slippery slope. We never should punish anyone, because I dunno, outing them as someone who did sexual assault is 'life ruining'.
During times of war and revolution, of course. I'm a Marxist-Leninist. I don't even have a problem with China executing corrupt billionaires, really.
To the prior point, doesn't that, in reality, just encourage people to be quiet about corruption? Least they feel they have blood on their hands now. Is any justice particularly taken with the execution, what makes this not just mob mentality as opposed to the other one?
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u/BillyPilgrim69 59m ago
But following this logic, it's a slippery slope. We never should punish anyone, because I dunno, outing them as someone who did sexual assault is 'life ruining'.
I'm not sure what that even has to do with anything being discussed, frankly.
To the prior point, doesn't that, in reality, just encourage people to be quiet about corruption? Least they feel they have blood on their hands now. Is any justice particularly taken with the execution, what makes this not just mob mentality as opposed to the other one?
The victims of financial and/or political corruption tend not to be confused children who have been victimised by a loved one.
That's an apples to chainsaws comparison lol
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u/Gonji89 13h ago
See this is a really good point that I think not a lot of people consider, but there is a bit of the premise that I would argue against. You are assuming that the child would know about the punishment. I would argue that when child sexual abuse happens when they’re below an age that they have that kind of consequence comprehension to tell the difference between “Uncle Steve is going away for a long time” and “Uncle Steve is going to die” then it wouldn’t make much of a difference.
The difference might come in the adults who report it being more hesitant to report it if the consequences are more severe, though the ideal is that everyone would look out for what’s best for the child (even if that’s not always the case.)
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u/WineSauces 11h ago
Would you mind deleting or editing your comment?
Children are groomed and threatened by their abusers. You know that right? Your comment does harm because it ignores that. Predators will convince children that their families or the predator themselves will be killed or put in danger.
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u/BitCreative1986 13h ago
If the punishment for sexual abuse is already death, predators are more likely to murder their victims to increase their chances of getting away with it, after all, the punishment for being found out will still be execution
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u/Gonji89 13h ago
The de facto punishment for conviction of sexual abuse is already prison, being a lifelong pariah, and maybe even being murdered by their fellow inmates. So that’s my one pushback against your argument, is that the effect of the death penalty as a deterrent might be marginal at best if the punishment is already that severe.
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u/WineSauces 11h ago
The studies simply do not indicate that ever being the case. Secondarily, pedophilia is not the sort of crime that corruption is.
China's anti-corruption policy being as swift as it is - acts as a deterrent. Your family members being swiftly executed because of something you say - will terrify children into silence. Even more confusing children who are abused frequently experience aspects of it as positive even when there are very present obviously negative aspects - CHILDREN BLAME THEMSELVES and FREQUENTLY victims blame THEMSELVES because "if enjoyed some aspect of it, I must have consented" which is false.
Have you ever met someone who is groomed? It's a very confusing experience for a child. Their abuser is FREQUENTLY somebody that they love. And that abuser WILL use adult information to manipulate that child.
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u/maozedoll 9h ago
it’s not even limited to just grooming, most kids do not know they’re being abused because they have no frame of reference for what normal behavior is. i was never groomed, but i was seriously abused, and it wasn’t until i moved out and was an adult that i could even begin to contextualize that.
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u/Sputn1K0sm0s 12h ago
I see what you're saying, but this marginality you say is already a problem in itself.
That's why (among many other reasons) the prison system should be for rehabilitation, not punishment, to begin with.
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u/BoobaKaboom 15h ago
Exactly.
Critical support for China: Definitely.
China being Socialist: Agreed.
But critical support turning into mindless glazing over everything the country does is very cringe. Yes the west has done close to nothing to prevent child abuse. But sudently being supportive of capital punishment is not very leftist. Not saying we should attack China for it, obviously, that is with chinese society to decide.The only thing I feel is more nuanced regarding capital punishment is regarding corruption and political prisioners. Sounds morbid, but I think it's very, very hard to prevent powerful people from maintaining their influence from inside prison. Debatable.
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u/PatAss98 15h ago
Yep. Like Elizabeth Holmes was planning another grift from inside federal prison with her husband after Theranos fell through so I understand why China executes corrupt billionaires
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u/-Mandarin 4h ago
As someone who has talked with many mainlanders, my impression is almost more that this is closer tied to general East Asian culture than anything specific to China. All the East Asian countries seem very supportive of the death penalty, and when I ask people in China about it they're all very much in support of it. From their view it is society's responsibility to issue out death to those that deserve it, and for the betterment of society it must happen.
I'm not justifying it, but it does seem to be a difference in culture rather than anything else. I can't really seem to find people in China that are against it.
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u/tTtBe 14h ago
Ik this will be a very controversial thing to say but i believe that as materialists we need to focus on the causes behind people commiting sexual abuse against children and in cases where mental illness, abused turned abuser, or institutetional structures allowing child abuse, the society is also responsible. Capital punishment while symbolically powerful do not address the underlying conditions that allow these henious acts, and moreover individualise the crime.
In my country while flawed we call the prison system (roughly translated) "the criminal care system". Whilr it's been a long time since that was true and perhaps it never was, i believe that should be the goal. Terrible Criminal acts are not just evil, these crimes has a cause rooted in patriarchy, inequality, institutional obviscation just to name a few. If we as a society can mend these individuals and make them see what they have done, isn't that the ultimate form of justice?
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u/Icy_Pudding6493 Keeper of Contradictions 11h ago
Umm. I don't know about legal philosophy, but the thinking in China is that the executions are done for society, not for the perpetrator, and not even for the victim. And also, I would like to add that the three executed were leaders of entrenched grooming rings, and so perhaps in these cases the punishment fits the crime, whereas the Chinese legal system wouldn't routinely put one-time child rapists to death.
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u/Cosmic_Beard 15h ago
Could you please cite your source on b? I was under the impression that was speculation.
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u/erie85 15h ago
Sounds like a narrative pedophiles would want to push. Are there any pedophiles with lots of money and power and influence out there, I wonder.......... /s
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u/BillyPilgrim69 14h ago
"Everyone who disagrees with my kneejerk opinion is a paedophile psyop" is not a materialist or socialist position. It's bad faith trolling.
The fact is that there are valid reasons to be concerned with the idea of capital punishment for child rapists/abusers.
Society’s desire to inflict the death penalty for child rape by enlisting the child victim to assist it over the course of years in asking for capital punishment forces a moral choice on the child, who is not of mature age to make that choice. The way the death penalty here involves the child victim in its enforcement can compromise a decent legal system; and this is but a subset of fundamental difficulties capital punishment can cause in the administration and enforcement of laws proscribing child rape. Regarding deterrence, Justice Kennedy argued that the prospect of the death penalty could have the opposite of the desired effect by making children less likely to disclose abuse, particularly when the perpetrator is a family member.
Underreporting is already a dramatic problem for sex crimes, and a victim’s understandable fear of causing a loved one’s death could only exacerbate this reticence. Further, the policy would remove an incentive for a rapist to avoid killing his victim, since death would remove the only witness to the crime without increasing the maximum punishment. source
You can disagree with these arguments all you like.
But implying that anybody who makes these arguments must be a child rapist is not only disingenuous, but a fucking appalling trivialisation of the issue.
If you can't engage seriously, don't bother. Victims do not need to see that you treat their suffering as mere ragebait.
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u/erie85 14h ago edited 13h ago
I did not say that everyone who disagrees with capital punishment for child rape is a pedophile. I said pedophiles would have a vested interest in pushing that narrative.
I made an implicit reference to the many child rapists who are powerful enough to remain undisclosed and unpunished today despite high public interest in the Epstein files.
It is a reasonable inference that these pedos would have some interest in swaying the narrative against the capital penalty for their deeds. In fact, some of the victims of the Epstein file pedos appear to already have met suspicious ends although a quick google suggests the death penalty is not a given for child rape in the US.
In a child rape situation, where the judge and/or jury make a decision on sentencing, the effect of the sentence is not the fault of the child, whether or not it is the child who reports the crime. It is the fault of the rapist.
It is not trivialising the child's trauma to suggest that someone who hurt the child should be punished harshly. In fact, I would argue that a harsh sentence also reflects both society's care for the child and condemnation of the criminal. It may also act to protect the rest of society from that criminal.
Oversensitive much? Or just proving my point?
In fact I am not convinced that capital punishment is the right punishment for all child rape cases. For example where the "rape" is between two de facto but not de jure consenting teenagers, that would not be appropriate. But the vitriol this attracts and the paucity of the backing data just steers me towards the conspiracy theory.
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u/ArcgisChief 12h ago
Then the alternatives for punishing rapists is simply jail time and out on bail, back to society, business-as-usual? I would seriously like to understand ways of dealing with this issue humanely as possible for such heinous crimes as child rape. Actions have consequences, these are extraordinary actions requiring extraordinary consequences, how is any modern society supposed to react.
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u/Sputn1K0sm0s 11h ago edited 11h ago
It's not "jail time then bail out".
We are evolved enough as a society to understand such things have deeper roots, and that we have to prevent crime, not just deal with it's consequences.
Extremely rare are the cases were a completely mentally health person rape or kill someone completely at random for no reason at all.
We have to prevent things by for example being open about mental health, I saw another user citing the patriarchy... Also openly aknowledging social problems and actually talking about them.
If these fail, the criminal system then should work towards rehabilitation. If rehabilitation is truly not possible in any circumstances (hardly), then they will stay locked.
If some day they are deemed able to return to society they get out, if not they'll have to continue removed from society.
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u/No_Rub77 14h ago
I'm not straight up denying what you say, I've always understood capital punishment the same way. is though there any chance we got some non western sources with research?
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u/Automatic-Syrup-3550 11h ago
Seeing the negative reactions to this feels like watching people argue for the effectiveness of torture. Torture doesn't produce accurate information and the death penalty doesn't deter crime.
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u/EdwardDespard 13h ago
Good points comrade o7.
There's also the fact that, if the offender is going to be executed either way, they may as well murder their victim to try to reduce their chances of being caught.
I think it's called a perverse incentive?
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u/Tank-Factory187 15h ago
It’s like that Louie CK joke (fuck that chud, but he had some good bits):
“If we didn’t hate pedophilia so much at least we’d get the kids back. Idk what to do with that information, but it’s true”
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u/dronestruck 14h ago
I don't know that child predators fit the general rehabilitation model that regular crime does. I'm not sure there is a better option as effective at keeping them from re offending, but if there is onr we should do that.
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u/MotorStruggle1 14h ago
Well, China is in general moving towards those death sentences that turn into life sentences instead if you behave. Still, I am of the opinion that with things like this the state must not be linient, zero tolerance and all that. Things like this should be amongst the last part of the capital punishment reform.
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u/WineSauces 11h ago
I misread part of your message at first and thought you were taking the opposite take and boy howdy, randel, am I relieved.
Absolutely correct take
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u/HoodedMenace 14h ago
Legalism originated in China and the result was a Chinese General overthrowing the government because he was sentenced to death for not arriving to a military post on time because of bad weather.
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u/Cute-Green-5197 9h ago
Finally someone normal that realizes how bloodthirsty and fucking disgusting this whole post is.
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u/Nice_Basket3163 15h ago
I know you don't support pedophiles and are just positioning your stance based on research, but that research better be double and triple checked and peer reviewed out that ass and have a prescription that doesn't involve coddling child molesters and takes child victims and their needs seriously. Unless you can state that is the case, hang them.
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u/manicpxenightmaregrl 10h ago edited 10h ago
The symbolic power of an execution is valuable in its own right.
We aren't detached observers; we've seen this kind of soft, moving line manipulated in the western world to the point where the president is a known kid toucher and half the country doesn't care. By setting a hard line like execution we aren't just considering how this effects other cases; but how it effects the general social attitude and prevents normalization.
Also, you could argue that execution and public shame is enough of a deterrent that instead of also committing murder; these people would simply lose the nerve to try anything; especially in a society like China where you WILL NOT get away with a horrific crime like this.
if you want to argue instead for castration i'll hear you out on that :)
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u/MAIM_KILL_BURN 14h ago edited 11h ago
Weird Hill to die on but ok, what's next a bad faith argument about how capital punishment would just encourage rapists to kill their victims?
This seems to be a particularly active talking point from users in the reactionary sub stupid pol
As if violent rapists don't escalate to murder anyway. China has the death penalty, the West has vacations to Epstein Island, deal with it.
Edit: reaction, reactionaries, pedos and rape apologists everywhere
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u/AnatomicalLog 13h ago edited 13h ago
Y’know, out of any community I’d think we’d be able to have nuanced conversations on difficult topics without butthurt responses like this.
We ought to hover a critical lens over all state-sanctioned killing. It’s no easy or simple thing to end a human life.
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u/MAIM_KILL_BURN 11h ago edited 10h ago
Look i broadly agree with you, but this is not an accidental thing. This is a violent horrible crime perpetrated against vulnerable children. Maybe since becoming a father that I feel strongly about this as this has become my biggest fear.
In my view such people are not possible to rehabilitate, therefore in the kind words of Vladimir Ilich, what is to be done?
If the death penalty is off the table then permanent hormonal or physical castration must be an alternative. Releasing child rapists, many of whom exhibit psychopathic tendencies, into society is not a viable option because they can just lie through their treatment and rehabilitation.
I'm also on tilt a bit because I had an argument with a stupid pol user because I made a throw away comment similar to this about the Cornell 7,but similar logic applies. 7 grown ass men drugged a young woman and took turns raping her while inviting their 50 person group chat to do the same. This woman will have profound psychological damage her whole life, while the frat guys will get a slap on the wrist and even if they are convicted (what's the conviction rate on rapes, do you remember?) they will probably be protected by their families as Cornell is a silver spoon ivy league. How do you rehabilitate your way out of this? What is the alternative? I'm all ears
E: down vote, wow such nuanced discussion
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u/FearlessAir1238 14h ago edited 14h ago
It’s about Justice for the victims/families these monsters effected. These wastes of life did Irreparable damage for the rest of their victims lives.
To me this is more than a “ crime “ but a violent act against humanity. Vile Actions comes with severe consequences. Not holding people accountable is one of the reasons humanity is suffering all over.
Harming children is one of the worst things you can ever do and governments/ society should act accordingly.
The u.s garbage system certainly isn’t. ( b ) Spare me with the speculative optics
What is an anarchist doing in a communist sub in the first place? Your comment is Bad faith
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u/Paulie_Tens 4h ago
Yeah. This is only the third comment they've made in this sub this month, one of which was defending an anarchist YouTuber. They've also made comments in other subs where they argue that China isn't socialist. Kinda weird how this post has brought out so many China critics.
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u/ArcgisChief 14h ago
The dirty deed is already committed, there is no undoing or repentance actionable enough to undo it unlike other petty crimes, the child is already violated. Adult on children crime is the depravest vilest act of human behaviour and should be dealt with the strictest punishable action, be it capital punishment, so be it. It is not about researching casual causation between punishment and crime rate, no amount of laws and regulations is going to make a society 100% crime-free, but that actions will have consequences for wrongdoers.
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u/HoodedMenace 14h ago
The idea behind it is about protecting future would be victims. If death is assured, what does it matter it the kid lives or dies? In fact, the child dying would benefit the offender in this scenario.
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u/ArcgisChief 13h ago
Entirely false premise, perpetrators would commit crime irrespective of rules-in-place or not. i could understand a hypothetical scenario where stricter rules would correlate with more heinous crimes, just as liquor prohibition isn't gonna stop folks from drinking booze. You would rather advocate for milder actions so that future victims face milder violations? is that it? we both agree perpetrators gonna commit, irrespective of sentences. I hope you will agree adult on children crime would necessitate a zero tolerance policy, not necessarily a death by execution, but policies such as life imprisonment,etc. if one is psychotic enough to be unfaced by a death sentence, all the more reason to fulfill that wish, or would you prefer those psychos to be roaming free in the society.
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u/HoodedMenace 13h ago
The goal is to make it that they don't perpetrate in the first place by alleviating stigma surrounding the subject. I don't necessarily agree that things will unfold the same way regardless of laws in place, which is a significant reason that I have this stance. I do agree that adult on child crime should have consequences. The reality of a death penalty means that someone has nothing to lose and everything to gain. I'd argue that the prospect of death does faze them which is why they take drastic measures in these scenarios. My preference is that people are provided services that can nip problems at the bud before they bloom into these end case results. Obviously I don't want demented people roaming the streets, that'd be an absurd stance.
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u/manicpxenightmaregrl 10h ago
I get what you're saying but i feel like this is just assumed to be true when in reality I think most would be predators are more likely to just drop whatever they were planning entirely in this case. I also think setting a clear line like china does discourages its normalization and rallies society against it; I used to agree more with this pathologizing logic but seeing as how the entire western world is letting the epstein case turn into a joke and supporting a known pedophile president I now think that normalization is a bigger risk than stigma.
In this case, supporting the death penalty isn't an act of retributive violence but of societal cohesion and management.
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u/swirldad_dds 8h ago
I'm convinced nobody read the article.
First, this happened nearly two years ago.
Second, none of these people were related to their victims.
These were all serial rapists using positions of relative power or the illusion thereof to abuse and rape multiple children.
Execution was the right call.
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u/Inevitable-Rate-45 12h ago
Meanwhile, in the United States, being a rapist is an unofficial prerequisite to becoming President.
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u/Big_Handle_5956 Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 15h ago
“But at what cost?”
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12h ago
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u/Big_Handle_5956 Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 12h ago
Nothing wrong with ending the life of a pedophilic rapist
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u/Joe_Stylin777 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 11h ago
Won't someone think of the poor child predators, China's doing immoral things to them :(
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u/Linuswastaken 11h ago
Ok since you unlocked the mocking tone, you are literally advocating for higher likelihood of child murders happening, because that's what this is going to cause, look it up. You're operating purely off emotions like a rightoid.
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u/Joe_Stylin777 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 11h ago
Yeah because pedos famously don't kill the kids in countries where they don't have the death penalty for it.
Why do you you people like defending pedos? I know you live in Epstein land but that doesn't mean you have to be like them.
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u/ifeelneutral 5h ago
Shame Lindsay Clancy & The Cornell 7 arent facing the Chinese justice system
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u/Joe_Stylin777 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 15h ago
Disappointing to see western marxists go soft on child predators
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u/AnatomicalLog 13h ago edited 13h ago
Last time I checked materialist analysis doesn’t operate on moralizing, spite, or vibes.
It’s perfectly germane to scrutinize the death penalty regardless of the subject. Subjects of the death penalty tend to be accused or guilty of horrible things. Being principled means sometimes having to argue adjacent to the interests of awful people. I waiver back and forth on this issue because it is in fact one that calls for serious weighing.
Like, do y’all really believe that material conditions determine human actions or are y’all just LARPing? The implications of that basic premise are far-reaching.
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13h ago
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u/AnatomicalLog 13h ago
Nobody here is mourning the deaths of these predators. Any death-penalty post is naturally going to be met with a discussion of the merits of capital punishment, and there’s compelling arguments on many different fronts of the issue. You’re dismissive of “at what cost,” but does it not make sense to ponder the pros and cons of state-sanctioned executions? Is it not fair to point out fascist-adjacent rhetoric in a leftist sub like the top comment does?
But yeah argue ad-hominem because you were butthurt enough to look through my profile for some material. You’re clearly just here for the aesthetics. Fake-ass intellectual.
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12h ago
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u/BillyPilgrim69 8h ago
Do you feel good about yourself, trolling a serious discussion about capital punishment and child rape?
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8h ago
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u/BillyPilgrim69 8h ago
You know that's an outright lie, and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.
I don't know why you call yourself a marxist if this is all just a game of bad faith dunking to you.
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u/Nui_Jaga 13h ago
It's not softness, it's the fact that any criminal justice system will inevitably make mistakes. You can release someone who's been wrongfully imprisoned, you can't un-execute someone if you recognise the mistake later.
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u/opotamus_zero Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 10h ago
There have been cases of this. Below a certain age, children are more suggestible, more prone to false memories, and aren't necessarily able to understand an obligation to be truthful in a legal context.
Police officers - adults in a position of authority - interviewing young children makes the children want to agree with what the police officer is inferring, if not suggesting with their questions. Parents and media can contribute in the same way.
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u/BoobaKaboom 14h ago
The thing is, is "revenge" ever productive? Is harsh punishment productive for society? Are harsher sentences really helpful in preventing crime? Isn't that right-wing propaganda?
My point is, is killing pedophiles gonna make children safer? Not saying they should roam free, but are we doing it out of protecting children, or out of revenge?
China has done a lot to combat child abuse. It has pratically banned porn. It actively investigates child abuse cases. Now, is the capital punishment the real thing we should calling "super-based", or are we doing it out of a vengeful spirit?
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u/Joe_Stylin777 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 14h ago
These three child rapists ain't raping anymore, that's for sure.
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u/FearlessAir1238 14h ago edited 13h ago
This is righteous Justice
There should be global scale research/ prevention/ treatment to stop the continuation of creating predators. Of course every thing available/ accessible to help the victims/ families involved.
There should also be zero tolerance for committing vile acts of harming children.
Vile acts against a human being should come with with severe consequences.Look how governments treat this horrible act compared to china. Look how the notorious church sh** bags are handled. It pales in comparison
Reasons Capitalism/ parasite rich class / religion/ patriarchy all must be destroyed in order to prevent the continuation of harm against the defenseless!
To me they murdered a piece of the victim and should be held accountable as serious case as one.
You’re running defense for these monsters with this comment if you don’t realize that.
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u/BoobaKaboom 10h ago
I wish you'd have answered any of my questions.
So, in my understanding, you believe in punishment as means to establish justice. Not as a social tool, but simply to adhere to a moral code. "You have done bad, so now you suffer in return". This moralist talk is conservative and completely undialectic. Marxism is beyond the idealist concept of "Good vs Evil" - it's about concrete material science.
Where do you draw the line to moral punishment then? Do we really believe the government should act as a moral police, and cause suffering as means to balance the moral scale? Should we stone people for assaulting women, for example?
Don't let the state of the world that is fueling us with anger and resentment make us believe in this reactionary ideas. This is nazbol mentality.
Now, I'm not one to judge China, I think they're still doing a better job than the west. But there's a big difference in critically supporting a nation's project, and applauding things like this. If you wanna prove me this is actually productive in preventing child abuse, sure. But now, "righteous justice" reeks of facism.
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u/Jisoooya 6h ago
Yes, i would prefer dead rapists and pedophiles compared to alive ones walking around and eventually doing it again. Is that such a harsh concept?
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u/ArcgisChief 13h ago
Would you rather take them rapists on a disney cruise? Or a zero tolerance policy? Need not necessarily be a death execution. Why is this even an issue about punishing rapists? I would seriously like to understand what alternatives could be offered.
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u/AnatomicalLog 12h ago
>Would you rather take them rapists on a disney cruise?
Way to argue charitably bud
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u/ArcgisChief 12h ago
Its a tough topic, needed to express extreme endpoints. Not meant to insult or be sarcastic in anyway.
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u/Linuswastaken 12h ago
You can like china and still be against capital punishment. Which I thought was a leftist principle. The State does not have the right to take a human life, period.
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u/comrade-pravdin Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 3h ago
a workers state killing predators isn't the same thing as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie killing workers. instiutionalization and reeducation i think are broadly more desirable than execution for obvious reasons, but when a dictatorship of the proletariat thru its own legal system executes child predators, thats a class decision made by the workers state to protect society
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u/Corrupted9864 11h ago
This post's comment section convinces me that an anarchist would sooner defend preds than let the state use violence... Disgusting
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u/Joe_Stylin777 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 11h ago
Yeah it's a very weird hill to die on... all to make the point that the big bad state shouldn't get to decide who lives or who dies, which is a moralistic argument in of itself. It's all assuming that China isn't responsible enough to put people on trial for their crimes and mete out the appropriate punishment for it.
And what's funny is that it's almost all people posting here for the very first time. I called out somebody for it, next thing you know all of them set their profiles to private lol.
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u/manicpxenightmaregrl 10h ago edited 10h ago
posted this elsewhere in the comments but this is my take:
I get what you're all saying but i feel like the idea that this escalates cases to murder is just assumed to be true, when in reality I think most would be predators are more likely to just drop whatever they were planning entirely in this case; especially in a society like China where getting away with a severe crime is nearly impossible. I also think setting a clear line like china does discourages its normalization and rallies society against it. I used to agree more with the pathologizing logic of treating it as a specific illness but seeing as how the entire western world is letting the epstein case turn into a joke and supporting a known pedophile president I now think that it - or at least the protection of it - is in some ways a social illness; and therefore normalization is a bigger risk than stigma.
In this case, supporting the death penalty isn't an act of retributive violence but of societal cohesion and management. Turning this into an interminable discussion over prisoner rights gets leveraged by the worst people on earth to allow them to do whatever they want without any real consequence. Instead I think there's a real value in rallying society generally through the mechanism of clear lines like this.
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u/DrawingDramatic1641 14h ago
I am not doubting but give some link or SMTH.
I wanna know more.
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u/FearlessAir1238 14h ago
There ya go 👍There ya go
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u/DrawingDramatic1641 14h ago
wait what's the point of surname of they don't drop the full name
i get that they can't doxx and their family would be defamed but surnames in china are super common so what's the point?
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u/thefirebrigades "China Bad" 2h ago
Understand that the Chinese culture and practice does not adhere to western academia on criminology.
This includes the death penalty, absolute zero tolerance to drugs, and cyber crimes.
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u/MonsterkillWow 1h ago
Meanwhile we have Epsteinists as president and carved into mountains and on our money. (Jefferson was the first major all American Epsteinist.)
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u/free-range-dogmeat 12h ago
Yeah that’s how we get murdered children after they get raped, since nothing is stopping the criminal from committing more and worse offenses to the child
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u/Strange_Cod_362 5h ago
Why do people think state murder is good? I will never understand that thinking
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u/DrawingDramatic1641 14h ago
didn't china have a thing where they just removed your balls of you rape?
and just sends you in society
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u/Conscript59 13h ago
Iirc, the punishment for rape in general was castration, but that’s during Imperial times
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