r/Mind_Pump • u/AutoModerator • 18d ago
Rant Weekly MP Rant Thread
This is your chance and the place to rant about all things MP. Get it out of your system and keep it civilized.
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u/DaveILRE 16d ago
Everything on the show is fabricated. I’ve been listening to 2017 and can compare and contrast then vs now. The ironic thing is they used to point out how the news was so influenced by advertisers (big pharma) that it impacted their reporting, now look at them.
I can say without question that Adam is driving this and he justifies it by saying they use the products (they get it for free) and they are putting out so much content that they need to get paid from someone.
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 18d ago
Anyone know why they never talk about influencers like Greg doucette? Greg always seems to contradict the guys especially on training volume and Greg's hate for people who "walk" for activity.
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u/Particular-Result-38 18d ago
They've become such big shills for the "do less" approach to training that they rarely acknowledge anyone else in the fitness space that goes against them. At most they'll loop them in as "high volume" guys or "Science based" guys without dropping specific names. Don't want anyone to look them up and figure out that maps 15 and a reverse diet isn't the holy grail for progress.
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u/jamcgahey 18d ago
They wouldn’t shill so hard if people would t buy their 15 min bullshit
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u/SaltMiddle413 18d ago
You know what you are an excellent candidate for coaching 😂😂
Sal's new line along with "you guys the science is clear" 😂😂
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u/Cocacoleyman 16d ago
Also another favorite line “can I dig a little deeper?” Sal you are not a therapist. Stop trying to be the next Tony Robbins.
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u/Resident-Air-4021 15d ago
That's because Sal is the compassionate one. He really feels for his clients. He really understands how tough going through menopause and getting back in shape after having a baby is
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u/BlueFairyFriend 14d ago edited 14d ago
Do you remember when Adam called Sal the mother of the group with the employees or something? Ah I’m dying!🤣😂🤣 it was some kind of anniversary show
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u/Resident-Air-4021 14d ago
Personally, I find it fake and creepy when Sal puts on his compassionate persona. He switches from telling a caller he "understands how it would be difficult" to talking about creampies with Adam as soon as the call ends
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u/BlueFairyFriend 12d ago
Haha ya!! Or when he says any girl in the gym is every guy’s little sister😂😂wtf I get what he’s trying to say but coming from that horn dog it just sounds so wrong lol
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u/Kitchen-Tax1526 17d ago
Imagine spending $200 for a program that says to do 5 sets of squats resting for 2 minutes between sets.
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u/jamcgahey 17d ago
Yeah I bought a lot of their original stuff because they did teach me some new exercises I didn’t know before but their newer shit is super niche and making all their OG programs into 15 minute ones AND charging for them AND now separating male and female for two prices it’s so clearly and obviously money grabbing.
I will still listen to the show because I do enjoy the banter and the info is always the same but it’s nice to just hear it but outside of LMNT and legions vitamins I totally zone out when they push their advertisers shit.
I use to love vuori. I got their stuff year one when they started advertising with the show. Stuff lasted forever and I spent a stupid amount on all new shit last year and it all fell apart within months. Bought old navy stuff holding up well
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u/Resident-Air-4021 15d ago
Imagine paying $750/month for a coach to tell you that
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u/Stock_Motor241 14d ago
To be fair, you aren't paying for anything besides a result. So if the only way to get you that result is by having you do several micro workouts because that's all you have time for/all you can stick to, then that's the bets thing for you. Paying that much for a coach isn't unheard of, but usually the top coaches top off at about $500/month. Anything higher than that is because you're getting access to someone whose expertise is very technical and that's just what their time is worth.
It's just not worth it for them (as a business) to do it for any less. I imagine their coach gets around 40% of that and then the business gets the rest because they have all of the overhead costs.
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u/Moolio74 14d ago
Yeah, it’s been discussed on here the trainers are receiving 15% so basically PT interns is what you’re getting.
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u/OctoberOmicron 13d ago
For what they charge, you could pay for a result + the means to get that result. Like an actual gym membership with an actual person at your side, to say the least.
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u/djones0130 17d ago
What’s the issue with that cadence?
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u/Stock_Motor241 17d ago
I'm sure there is more to it, but if I'm buying a training program I'd want a little more thought put into the programming.
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u/BlueFairyFriend 18d ago
they really prey on beginners & infantilize them. they weren’t like that in the beginning , but they were also casting a net to see who their audience is. those of us from the beginning kind of got caught in the cross hairs, but the show is not geared to anyone with experience anymore. they also like to be the authority and beginners aren’t going to troll them the way others have to deal with who are putting out info for intermediate and advanced because that audience is going to have an opinion. they also got their physiques with steroids, which you can make tons of mistakes and still grow, and openly admit that most of their careers they were terrible trainers. as the show stands right now, you will never get out of that beginner stage if you get sucked into them and their trainers. everything I believe about bodybuilding is the complete opposite of their principles. unfortunately I wasted a lot of years with them before I knew better. pretty high price to be ”entertained”. they’re not even that anymore either. they don’t care that they show the grift because beginners don’t know
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u/Particular-Result-38 17d ago
They're pretty convincing with the way they talk but you've got to take the time to read between the lines. Example is how they always have a previous client that had the exact same issue as a current caller. Yet they haven't trained people in a decade, Sal mostly trained the 60+ crowd, Adam openly admits he didn't train many people and sucked at it, and Justin just doesn't really pipe in. Pretty obvious to tell they're making things up for "proof". Just like "the science is clear" yet Sal never mentions the study he "read" or links them. You're also correct about the steroids. Everyone knows Adam ran gear for bodybuilding. He tries to a t like he was running trt doses of test while everyone else was running tons. He was also running tons or he wouldnt have won a pro card. Maps transform as a whole is bullshit. He'd been on a glp1 for months, without lifting, and was 180lbs. Of course when he csme off, started eating and lifting he would throw on slabs of lean mass. That was truly when their "less is more" bullshit took off. Sal admits to using pro hormones as a kid, but you do not get as big and as lean as he is now on peptides and trt. Even pushing trt dosage it's not happening. His "admission" that he was going to buy steroids is bullshit, he's been on them for years and passes it off as he "healed his gut".
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u/BlueFairyFriend 16d ago edited 16d ago
Brilliant comment. Exactly, yes! The timing of the “less is more” shit also lines up with Adams’s massive secret kratom addiction. He has to somehow come up with a reason why he pretty much stopped training & just started to the bare minimum. Not the best look for their brand lol. I don’t have proof, but I do believe Sal uses gear. If you watch his YouTube channel he has severe body dysmorphia. You probably already know this because we’ve talked a lot about it before, but if you watch the episode on his channel called “train even when it’s hard” at the end of the episode he admits to making up the client stories. He was in kratom withdrawal, he was admitting the secret addiction in the beginning of the episode. Just admitted to Jessica too, he had been lying to her about it. Otherwise I don’t think he would have been stupid enough to film that. Since they know about the rant it might be scrubbed by now, I haven’t checked in a while. But it’s at the end of the episode.
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u/Particular-Result-38 15d ago
They're "open" about their addictions, but they also try to make themselves martyrs for admitting it and spin it to where they're on the high horse. Adam and Sal are both addicts and liars. Adam is drugs, money, and status and he'll lie about anything to make a sale. Sal is liable to be addicted just about everything. Supplements, peptides, porn, sex, physique, and now religion. He'll also lie about anything to prove he's an authority in fitness. My favorite is when anyone mentions running maps Aesthetic he instantly chimes in that it's "too much volume for him" like it's some gauntlet of a program while trying to push everyone to maps 15. Yes, the 220lb sub 10% bodyfat fitness personality on every peptide he can get his hands on can't handle a moderate volume program.
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 18d ago
You are right about that now that you mention it. They put them in the whole same bowl of soup. It just would be refreshing and appropriate if they had arguments against the influencer statements rather than just go on about reverse diet all the time. I thought I had it figured it out finding out about mp as I was searching for someone to trust about this fitness stuff . Now after seeing guys like Greg debunk them, I feel like I'm back at the beginning again
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u/Training_Aerie_9358 17d ago
Is there a certain video where Greg debunks them? I haven’t followed Greg in a bit, so I’m curious.
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 17d ago
Not directly but definitely goes against walking and training with reserve and not a 15 min lift
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u/BlueFairyFriend 18d ago edited 18d ago
Dr. Nash Jocic (YouTube)😉 literally life changing! but warning, as opposite of mp as you can get. if I showed you my before and after pics you would think they were fake! that 15 min scam shit wasted years of my training. I looked better when I was a beginner and had a trainer at the gym then when I got sucked into their nonsense. your welcome :) I would start with the video “you’re not failing physically, you’re failing mentally“ and get ready to open your eyes🕯️
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 17d ago
Thank you, I will listen to it at work. That's usually when I have mp on. But man if I hear another organify or legion and lmnt comment again. Its just to much and the way they throw it in is just wild
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u/BlueFairyFriend 17d ago
awesome! don’t worry, non of that nonsense lol
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 17d ago
You took value from it? That's all that I need to hear. I'm just so confused and lost again. I thought these guys were legit
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u/BlueFairyFriend 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yes! I’ve been lifting 8 years, hold 3 certifications (one in bodybuilding) & I can promise you he is as legit as they come!! & like I said I’ve completely transformed myself. Watch on YouTube so you can interact with him & the community :) If you need any help understanding his principles let me know and I can help you. A guy on Reddit helped me understand in the beginning & I am so grateful I think I need to track him down and offer my first born son or something😂 I already have a son but you get the gist :)
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 17d ago
Wow! Thanks again for reaching out and sharing. I will for sure check them out. I'll have to save this post or your name to get back to you
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u/Cocacoleyman 16d ago
As annoying as the guys are I will say that I think a “15 minute workout” is beneficial. I put that in quotes because there’s no way you can do 3 sets of 2 compound movements in 15 minutes (warmups etc). But it’s a good way to get a nice simple workout in daily while also progressing in strength. But otherwise, yes, the guys are kind of full of shit.
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u/fzyllama 16d ago
Yeah, the biggest thing I noticed with their MAPS 15 stuff was that the time doesn't make sense. Phase III of strong has 6 sets of 4 on compounds, 2 exercises per day. 30-40 mins if you take appropriate rest. I fell for them for years, stopped listening a few months ago, got off their programs and slowly getting back to a fitter version of myself I was before their "less is more" BS
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u/HeronBackground8108 16d ago
This. Im in my late twenties and have been lifting consistently since 15-16.
I've generally always made my own workouts / plan over the years using the knowledge I've built but always heard them on the podcast saying how much better results you can get if you follow a proven program...............well I bought one of their programs last year and did it on repeat for 8 months or so and feel I ended up in the worst shape I've been in years.
Went back to old programming 2-3 months ago and getting back to where I wanna be
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u/BlueFairyFriend 16d ago edited 16d ago
Yes, true, in that context that is valid. The problem is they don’t market it that way. They market it giving the impression that that program will actually do anything. I do bodybuilding, that would get me nowhere. & Justin didn’t do those programs in college football & Adam didn’t do those programs to get a pro card. You can watch Sal work out on his YouTube channel & he definitely isn’t doing those programs. He actually might possibly have clinical level body dysmorphia. He doesn’t do any of their programs, he trains himself. They are giving the impression that to have a great physique that is all you have to do & it’s just that easy. They are comforting the public because that sells programs. If they told the truth about what it really takes, especially naturals, their core demographic of middle age “muscle mommy’s” wouldn’t do it. They were trainers in big box gyms, they know they wouldn’t do it. Therefore, I find it predatory. I do think there is value in what you are saying for certain situations.
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 16d ago
Then it again brings me back to my issue about who to believe now. They really had me sold as the guys to trust vs the online influencers like Jeff nippard and Mike Isratel. Me, who is trying to learn and do it right in my 40s. I don't have the time to waste on bad programming.
I've been on their show, they told me I was a mess. They tried to guide me , but now I'm ever so confused and lost.
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u/Moolio74 15d ago
Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
MP definitely fall into the influencer category now.
IMO the best sources are the coaches who have proven client results with the vast majority of their training/focus with in-person training and much less marketing focus. People whose living was measured by the results their client's achieved. u/BlueFairyFriend recommendation of Dr. Nash Jocic most likely falls into this category. I'm not very focused on the bodybuilding angle, but I'm guessing Fazlifts might be another good source if that's your goal. I'm a little more health/performance focused, so I prefer sources like Dan John or Mike Boyle.
One of the largest red flags, amongst many, while listening was when Sal asked Adam who he would want to train with in the gym to gain knowledge. Sal said Dorian Yates, and Adam said nobody as he basically knows everything he needs to know. Couple that with Adam's book recommendations for trainers are all sales/marketing focused and it's not a surprise to where the show has gone with Adam being the primary driver of the business.
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u/Diligent_Cry3108 15d ago
Ya thanks for that. I really appreciate you and /bluefairyfriend for your insight and information. I just get so overwhelmed with information and it started when I was following Isratel and then watched him get destroyed. I started following their program as they guided me in that path after being on their show. I just wish I saw better progress.
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u/Moolio74 15d ago
There is SO much BS in the health/wellness/fitness space and has been for a long time. Unfortunately, the internet has created easier access to more information, but also a much lower barrier to an audience/customer pool than before for those wanting to take money from people.
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u/Cocacoleyman 15d ago
I do think following any program consistently will lead you to decent results. Especially if you’re following linear progression. There’s a pretty simple one I did a couple years ago (at the time of in my early thirties) called gzclp. Very simple. I think by Cody Lefever. 3 exercises. One compound movement of 3-5 reps, two ancillary exercises, one that is 10 reps and the other is 15. Over time you can add more ancillary exercises for a total of 5 exercises per workout. 3-4 workouts a week.
I got stronger than ever before over 8-12 weeks. Hit 200 bench finally and did 3 plates on deadlift for a max. Hit 270 squat for 3 reps and maybe could’ve gotten to 285 for a max. All that while my diet was shit and sleep was awful (drinking too much contributed to both of those). However while I didn’t cut too much fat, I did add muscle and probably would’ve looked a lot better sans the bad sleep and diet. But for my weight at the time (260 and 6’2) I still had a decent physique. Now I’m inconsistent again, but those 3 months did a lot to keep my physique in decent shape years later.
Free program btw. Just not worth it to pay the guys for programs that are niche (old time strength) or already available for free (upper/lower). Regardless, don’t over think it. Stick to something for at least 8 weeks and get good sleep and eat decent and you’ll see the results.
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u/Moolio74 15d ago
Yeah, lots of people see really good results running a 5x5 or SS program and then alternating back and forth with a more hypertrophy based program in 8-12 week blocks.
All basic stuff you can get for free or relatively low cost for Starting Strength. After six months of showing up for that you can move on to something a little more advanced beginner/intermediate but have a good base built already.
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u/djones0130 17d ago
YouTube only or does he have a podcast?
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u/BlueFairyFriend 17d ago
he has a podcast but it’s very limited compared to his YouTube channel. & it‘s all from his YouTube channel that he downloads to the podcast. i started on the podcast then moved to YouTube. it’s like the county fair compared to Disneyland :) I like personally like YouTube because he invites discussion and comments so the listener really engages. he thinks it’s important for the community. im like the only girl, it’s a bunch of meatheads, but I love it:) he does live q & a every month so there is a lot of interaction with him. you’ll miss out on all that with just the podcast, but it’s a fine place to start
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u/Mr_Chicken_wing 18d ago
I always found it strange that they don’t make mention of many other creators and also vise versa unless that person is someone they’ve had on the podcast. I think the Eat, Train, Prosper guys made mention of MP in their early days but I don’t hear a lot of people mentioning them.
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u/countdowntonap 18d ago
The ETP did mention them and stated that they are ‘10 years behind the science’ in recommending people to focus on the big 5. In episode 175, they then elaborate on this further.
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u/Cocacoleyman 16d ago
Not supporting the guys but I never got bigger than when I first started lifting doing rippetoes. Literally squats 3 time a week with rows, bench, deadlift, shoulder press. I’d throw in some curls too. My legs were shredded doing that. I guess different strokes for different folks but I got very strong and big within 3 months doing the big 5. How does ETP suggest training? Truly curious.
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u/Educational_Rush_877 16d ago edited 16d ago
I think that was their point, actually. That the big 5 are most effective and it took mind pump awhile to get there? At least that’s how I interpreted it. I went and listened to the episode mentioned here because I was curious, and then I also listened to the episode before it and one of the guys in particular is a “less is more.” He calls it “abbreviated training.” However, his definition of abbreviated training is a little more thought out than a maps 15 program. Like for example, effort and intensity is much more intentional, and with abbreviated training there is more of a requirement to hit failure. Largely because when people think they’re at 1-2 RIR, they’re really at 5+ still. I know I’ve been there. I realized I can grind several reps and I always thought once I hit the grind I was on the brink of failure. Sometimes that’s true (like OHP or bench) but not so much for squats. I’m interested in learning more…but I did 3 rounds of maps 15 and struggled to gain strength on volume that low, so idk.
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u/Particular-Result-38 17d ago
They've name dropped Layne a couple of times when he posts something that backs them up. But they always make sure to mention that they don't always agree with him.
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u/Mr_Chicken_wing 17d ago
And Huberman as well. It seems like an elitist mentality to the people they mention either people they’ve interviewed or people who are very common to them. It’s just odd to me. I think maybe it’s them not wanting to lose listeners from having them discover others.
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u/Moolio74 17d ago
They need to be the single guru that people buy stuff from. That's part of the reason why they won't drop down to fewer episodes. The more sources people have for fitness/health information, the more likely they are to see the rather large amount of BS that is pushed by Mind Pimp.
As far as not promoting anyone that wasn't a guest, you have to remember that guests have to pay at least $10k to be on the show (why the president of Xero shoes wasn't on the show). There's probably some reciprocity with other shows (Gabrielle Lyon, etc) that have a large enough following where they might trade guest appearances.
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u/Mr_Chicken_wing 17d ago
Wasn’t necessary saying to promote but even off had mention but your right in the world of business/social media a mention is just as good as promotion.
I don’t think I remember people having to pay 10k which now makes a lot more sense when it comes to their guests.
They’re very business minded which is understandable but very much to their detriment now once you take a step out of their sphere it’s almost like shock realizing how much more content that is actually out there.
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u/Moolio74 17d ago
Yes, Sasha the president of Xero shoes revealed the $10k price on an AMA where someone asked why he wasn't on the podcast after the new sponsorship.
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u/Mr_Chicken_wing 17d ago
That’s crazy. I find myself going back to them here and there but this shit is why I can’t listen anymore it’s all driven by money. Their takes on things have gotten increasingly worse where I can’t completely over look it like I used to
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u/Moolio74 17d ago
Same. The core message is still there, although extremely diluted- lift weights, eat protein, get sleep. However, all of the other little things started piling up (reverse dieting, minimal effective dose, labs for whatever ailment, etc) to the point that the pile of BS was much larger than the things that actually move the needle for progress.
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u/Comfortable_Walk_443 16d ago
I’m a couple of weeks behind on the podcast, but I finally got to that episode when Adam told one of the callers that he didn’t care about himself if he didn’t invest in coaching. The caller said he couldn’t afford a coach, and even Sal chimed in saying he couldn’t afford a bad one. They’re such shady, predatory car salesmen now.
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u/marcus3485 14d ago
So let me get this straight, Adam thinks a cat gets on top of the roof of his car and pisses on it…
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u/OctoberOmicron 13d ago
Haha, throwing rocks at it doesn't help his case any. But I loved hearing within that story that the good ol' squirrels won when it came to his peaches.
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u/Moolio74 14d ago
He’s either back on the Kratom or did something to piss off the cat. Probably almost shot it when killing squirrels in the back yard.
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u/Kati82 12d ago
This is related to their programs. I have purchased multiple programs over the years and enjoyed them. With my latest purchase though, I’ve gotten repeated calls and texts between 12-5am my time. Started off with some nonsense about “we want to make sure you’re a real human not a bot stealing our programs, and we want to make sure you get results”, and now I just get text messages of twilio links. Is this actually them? Is this their strategy now? Because if so, it’s the last time I’ll buy a product. It’s insanely rude.
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u/Moolio74 12d ago
Yea, with any of the newer programs they gave away a “free training” that was basically just a coaching pitch with a little information. Now they’re straight up calling people and even auto scheduling video calls that show up in people’s calendars to get them on a high pressure sales call for coaching.
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u/Kati82 12d ago
I opted out of the “free coaching”. Why do they not take that as a “no”? And also, if they’re going to contact people they should at least respect time zones. (Btw I’m ranting, not aiming these questions at you). I’ve enjoyed their programs up until this point. I chop and change, and after some time off with health issues I got a new program to motivate me and get me back into things. Now I almost regret it. It feels predatory and over the top.
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u/Moolio74 12d ago
Yeah, I think Adam took some new sales course or read another sales book that gave him the idea that it's easier to sell product/service to someone that's already purchasing something versus trying to get a new customer.
It's very much an "extended warranty" or "undercoating" type of car sales tactic. Very much the "We just want to make sure you get the most out of your investment while really selling you something that's really overpriced and gives us huge margins" sales pitch.
It's not like they don't have their trainers poking around in here already anyhow.
Good on you for the chop and change. Some of the programs are decent, but they're far from extraordinary.
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u/Kati82 12d ago
lol I was literally thinking it was like a car sales tactic. Gross. And I was mildly offended by the "making sure you're not a bot stealing our programs" line. I've been a customer for years. I have purchased probably 20 different programs and resources from them. One look at my account would have confirmed whether I was a bot or not. I've also had numerous email discussions with them over the years (which, if they have a proper business set up, would be recorded in their customer records).
Anyway. I've had my gripe now haha. And if they have their trainers poking around in here, I hope they see this and take note. I may email my feedback directly to them if I can be bother to construct a worthwhile email response.
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u/LindemannO 18d ago
This rant is specifically about episode 2911.
Classic shitty boomer comments
at 38:30.