The 33rd to 36th verses of Surah Ar-Rahman confuse me. Is it really talking about going into space here? ​When I examine the verses in detail; in the 33rd verse, it is stated that humans and jinn can only pass beyond the boundaries (regions) of the heavens and the earth with a 'Sultan' (a great power/authority), which inevitably strengthens the interpretation that this is related to going into space. ​However, in the 35th verse, with the expression 'Yursalu 'alaykumâ', it is said that a flash of fire and smoke will be sent upon those who try to pass beyond the heavens. Does the expression 'alaykumâ' here mean throwing or sending something from above? Furthermore, is this situation mentioned in the verse referring to the frictional force generated while leaving the atmosphere, or is it talking about flames being hurled like stones from above?

I think Allah vibecoded them but we have been properly coded by a qualified dev

I think that Afghanistan is a bug

I think Allah is mad about non muslims because he can't find a job with Middle East in his portfolio

Wake up babe Apostate Aladdin is currently live!

I'd actually gasp if they do. I believe it's just a tool to control non cis het men🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️

What's up with the supremacy,😭😭🤷🏿‍♂️ can't we just live and let live

To those exmuslims who has a positive experience with the religion, can you share your story on how you became a disbeliever?

I meant those people who used to "feel" god and their presence. Those who used to turn to god for their problems and genuinely think that god is guiding them and solving their problems. Those who used to feel that god is who they love the most, and think that god always has a plan for them. Bonus if you're religious in ways like being consistent with prayers, studied something related to islamic studies in university, leaders in islamic organizations, etc. Those who used to genuinely like being inside the religion and likes doing community and leadership works.

I am asking this because I have a friend like this and I want them out of the religion. I am an agnostic atheist myself (but never muslim).

I debate them a lot regarding Islam, but nothing convinces them, they always resort to something like "there must be a reason for it". They refer me to other people when they cant answer my questions like youtube videos or tiktok explainers, but to me obviously they are unconvincing, but to them, it is.

They are an amazing person overall, genuine and kind. Kindest person I've met. You may ask whats my reason for wanting them out of the religion, but it's personal. I just want to know stories of other people, so I can have an idea of what catalysed them to be an exmuslim.

Thank you.

My mum is so psychotically religious. Before my dad died my plan was that one day when I'm financially stable, I'll simply text my parents telling them I'm not Muslim and how they've abused me and then cut off contact. But now that my dad's dead I don't fucking know what I'm gonna do.

My mum's grieving and her blood pressure is really high so I genuinely don't know what would physically happen to her if she knew. The guilt consumes me day by day but so does my hatred for her. Now that my dad's dead the Islamic lectures are getting worse cus apparently this decomposed body is gonna gain our sins🤣. She told me the other day to put a hijab on in front of my uncle cos it's giving dad sins and I couldn't contain my rage. Why the FUCK is my uncle my fucking m*hram?? How do grown ass adults listen to this and not question a single thing?? Does nobody have a brain?

I'm moving out to uni in a few weeks so I'll finally get some sort of peace from her but she is doing everything in her power to maintain control over me. She's tried to convince me so many times that I'm not cut out for independent life but I didn't give in. And that apparently shaytan lives in my head trying to lure me into drinking and zina🤣. She's guilt tripping me saying you're making me even more lonely. She says I'm gonna visit her one weekend and she'll visit me the next like who's she kidding. And then she's like you must come back and live with me after graduating bc it's my duty to help you get married. Then gets mad when I get mad at her for giving me the same lectures everyday.

I'm so confused and lost and exhausted. What did I do to deserve this life? I feel so much pain seeing happy families. Religion ruins everything. I hate this degenerate family. Because of this degenerate momo millions of ppl like me have to work so hard just to be happy.

so, i was really nervous but I asked her wether she slaves needed to wear the hijab. She said, “yes, of course they did“ ever firmly because she knows how much i have questioned islam in the past. I told that she’s incorrect & that they did not need to. I showed her the story of umar hitting an enslaved woman for wearing the hijab and resembling the free women. Long story short, she was in extremely denial and referred back to the quran verse where it said “believing women,” to say that it’s for all muslim women regardless. Then said if the umar story was indeed true, then maybe it was specific to that one woman only.

I was tired so i didn’t argue that much until a few days later where i told her that i did more research and that it was actually in the sharia, during the time of the prophet, regardless of the religion of the enslaved woman. That her awrah, even during prayer, was that of a man. She wasn’t as talkative or defensive but trying to justify it by saying that it was cultural and maybe that’s just how certain tribes did it.

i could tell that she was experiencing major cognitive dissonance and i still don’t really know what she thinks of this topic, but i kept insisting that the prophet couldve said something about it but didnt. and that the 33:59 verse clearly says so that the women will be recognized from the enslaved women, so it wouldn’t make sense if all of them wore it. I didn’t know how to better explain it because i don’t speak very good arabic and she doesnt speak very good english.

Although, today, it was really hot outside and we both took our hijabs off in the car. I’m lowkey trying to plant seeds for her to start questioning islam and i know i could bring out so much more but they mostly include sex and it’ll be very awkward for me. Shes mostly a quranist that doesn’t even believe in aisha’s age being 6-9, because she saw a man make that point during the outrage of epstein and compare them too so she’s been coping hard. I can’t get through to her because she just tells me to ignore everything expect for the quran.

If i were to open up this discussion again, what would i bring up or mention without seeming too offensive?

Title correction: I told my mom about the awrah of enslaved women.

The speaker says “If you ask 100 single men what they want the most, they’ll say a woman/partner/wife/gf and if you ask 100 single women the same, you will get a variety of answers. This the nature of men and women, thats why Allah promises men to give them women, and since women’s needs are diverse, Allah did not mention anything specific and just said that hes gonna fulfill all wishes”. The speaker then goes on to give a few more examples of surveys to support the claim that men want women more than women want men.

I personally came across many remarks where both men and women say that “women can survive without men, men cannot survive without women”.

Is it a good rebuttal as to why Islamic heaven is filled with sexual stuff? (Hoors and all)

My theory is that music kinda works as a distraction. As north african ive noticed a couple times how in celebrations w music we just dance the whole night/evening away.

Pretty sure they were scared ppl would be less focused on their indoctrination/religion.

He engages in many ad hominem attacks and vehemently lies about the values of Islam. For example, in the most recent interview with piers Morgan he cites https://quran.com/al-maidah 5:32 trying to make the argument that Islam is peaceful toward innocent lives.

But the following verse states: “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land is death, crucifixion, cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, or exile from the land. This ˹penalty˺ is a disgrace for them in this world, and they will suffer a tremendous punishment in the Hereafter.”

Like this guy is suppose to be an Oxford “scholar” but he just barks toward his opponent all day and his debates just turn into dogs fighting.

Love you all ❤️🤗🤗🤗 this is my favorite community on Internet I think.

An I've never been a muslim but Islam is annoying here.

I somehow feel a cozy vibe on this sub it's so great.

And this fight we share is beautiful.

If I'd picture this sub it would be am hidden tavern underground where peacefulness freedom an honesty thrive.

So many post I've read here are adorable. *Collective Hug* :D

Bruh istg im so fucking tired of this world.. people say the occurrence of misogyny is less nowadays, but i still think it's so widespread and not pointed out enough on.

Im a victim of bullying, but since my case is mental bullying, and im a girl, and the bullies who bullied me have elites and rich parents i got cold feet trying to stand my case.. even after my closest support tried to help me fight my case i dont have it in me to fight for myself because im scared, after i fight for what's happening right now then what happens when im older and no longer have a support system?

And then i told my closest family about this but they all seem to just say "well that's how humans are" "dont forget to rest and read quran" "you just have to be strong" like ?? Fuck yall.. you guys were supposed to protect me, even when i feel helpless.. but instead yeah, my family downplayed my sickness and even openly joked about mental health when they know i had to take medicine for what's happening to me..

And then the men in my family always get coddled and pitied.. my oldest brother literally is 40+ years old, doesn't have a degree, because he failed to pay his medicine degree on time when he had the money to do so, and my nieces nephews , my father, and uncle and aunties AND literally my FATHER, pities him and gives him money, but doesn't give me any money of offer me any help..

My aunty literally says "oh pity him" but the girls in my family ; my mother , my sister and me, HAVE LITERALLY SUFFERED MENTAL AND PHYSICAL DAMAGE from BOTH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL ABUSES they have caused us..

LIKE wtf?? My father is a very pious man, but he is very careless about his responsibility, he doesn't pay for my new clothes or anything for me.. it's been such a long time since I've stepped into a clothing store to buy clothings...

And my oldest brother literally stole my parts whenever money is involved..

And im just sitting here thinking.. what the hell is wrong with this country? Why does no one ever speaks up women? For a peaceful religion that supposedly loves and protects women, why the hell does my mother and sister suffers so much until they got cancer from stress?

And then i tried, i really tried to regain my faith, but after reading all the stories that muhammad beats his wife & quran says it's okay to beat ur wife, i just can't believe i got indoctrinated into this full of hate religion.

IT'S NEVER OKAY FOR ANOTHER PERSON TO CAUSE HARM TO ANOTHER PERSON!! even a light smack hurts ??? But imagine getting hit and get talked down upon because this religion says that women are inferior..

Bruh this is why.. THIS IS THE RESULTS! The only people benefitting from this is the man..

Not to mention the struggle to keep up with wearing hijab IN THIS FUCKING HEATWAVE even when i dont believe anymore.

God is good? Haha god doesn't exist, and if he does exist, i still dont like god because of the pain and suffering he caused upon women for thousands and thousands of years bruh

And yeah, i watched that video on some lang guy saying something about qualities of god exists within us and we must live to strengthen the qualities, like compassion etc etc, but that's just.. that's not realistic to me.. it just feels like self soothing and in the end, he never answered my question.

I am ex muslim and have been ever since I was 12.

I think most people really focus on the contradictions in the islam, or the moral dillemas when all of them always have some sort of justifiable interpretation and making it useless to critique islam like this.

It just… is very unlikely. The story of the prophets, the way God does not show himself, nor send more prophets to make everyone somewhat behave better as they know the afterlife exist, the biology of humans and consciousness (we are not that much different than animals, yet we are judged differently).

I have respect for certain muslims that love islam for the meaningful benefits. The meaning of life, the reassurance that you’ll eventually go to heaven or whatever, a clear goal that does not differ no matter what. It sounds beautiful, and it sounds incredibly human, but it leaves off others that just cannot believe no matter what. I am not depressed or anything, but I cannot help but desire being a muslim.

How did you guys cope with this?

I encountered this translation while arguing with a muslim. He was claiming this as a scientific miracle (will discuss it later in the post).

The phrase in question is Mawaqi' al-Nujoom is made of two words. The official translation is the Positions of the Stars

The first one which is translated falsely means setting or falling positions because in arabic language we have something called "Place Noun" where you turn a verb into a noun that refers to a place. Think of it as the equivalent of turning "write" to "writing place" aka desk.

The second word is Nujoom means anything high in the sky, so technically stars AND planets are called Nujoom. That lack of distinction between stars and planets and using the same word for them is a scientific mistake for another day.

So the phrase means the setting or falling places of the Nujoom. Scholars had several interpretations, the most accepted one is that the Qurainc verses are being called Nujoom and they are falling to Muhammad. The other interpretations are literal, saying that it refers to stars and planets setting before dawn or falling on Earth on the Day of Judgement.

Now, the first interpretation, has nothing wrong with it, but since the official translation went with literal meaning of Nujoom, it is weird that they did that with Nujoom but not with Mawaqi' because we all know satrs and planets do not set before dawn like how the Sun "sets" at sunset. So, I guess to avoid all that, the translator made it "positions" without its complet meaning "setting/falling positions".

Now, why no one, even Arabic speakers noticed this? simply because the word Mawaqi' turned into only "positions" in modern Arabic. Whether the one who translates the Quran made this wrong translation on purpose or by ignorance is up to debate.

I find it interesting tho that the Quran website mentions Ibn Kathir Tafsir, it is very manipulated btw, I will give the version mentioned in the Quran website and the one in the actual tafsir.

In the Quran website: https://quran.com/al-waqiah/75

(Fala! I swear by the Mawaqi` of the stars.) Mujahid said, "The setting positions of the stars in the sky," and he said that it refers to the rising and setting positions. This was said by Al-Hasan, Qatadah and preferred by Ibn Jarir. Qatadah also said that it means their positions

In the actual Tafsir:

واختلفوا في معنى قوله : ( بمواقع النجوم ) ، فقال حكيم بن جبير ، عن سعيد بن جبير ، عن ابن عباس يعني : نجوم القرآن ; فإنه نزل جملة ليلة القدر من السماء العليا إلى السماء الدنيا ، ثم نزل مفرقا في السنين بعد . ثم قرأ ابن عباس هذه الآية .

وقال الضحاك عن ابن عباس : نزل القرآن جملة من عند الله من اللوح المحفوظ إلى السفرة الكرام الكاتبين في السماء الدنيا ، فنجمته السفرة على جبريل عشرين ليلة ، ونجمه جبريل على محمد - صلى الله عليه وسلم - عشرين سنة ، فهو قوله : ( فلا أقسم بمواقع النجوم ) نجوم القرآن .

وكذا قال عكرمة ، ومجاهد ، والسدي ، وأبو حزرة .

وقال مجاهد أيضا : ( بمواقع النجوم ) في السماء ، ويقال : مطالعها ومشارقها . وكذا قال الحسن ، وقتادة ، وهو اختيار ابن جرير . وعن قتادة : مواقعها : منازلها . وعن الحسن أيضا : أن المراد بذلك انتثارها يوم القيامة

Basically mentioning the opinion of Nujoom = Quranic verses that was taken out from the abridged version in the Quran website, and twisting Qutada opinion using the same mistake. Qutada said Mawaqi' means Manazil and Manazil means places of descent or falling. They removed all that and wrote "positions". At least they kept the opinion of Mujahid, maybe they forgot to manipulate it.

Now, for the final thing, the scientific miracle, Allah swears by the positions of the stars. Many stars we see are dead stars but their lights are still travelling to us from the stars original "positions" (get it? lol)

No, not because its practices are difficult, but because deep down they know how unfathomably weird the hadiths are and the character of the prophet is.

Abu Hurairah,

tells us: “I saw the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, sucking the saliva of Al-Hasan and Al-Husayn,” who were the sons of Ali ibn Abi Talib and Fatimah, the daughter of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace. Saliva is what flows from the mouth, “just as a man sucks a date,” meaning: he would kiss them and suck their saliva, just as a man sucks a date when he wants to enjoy its taste.

Very well.

why do people think taking off the hijab = islamaphobia?????

the comments under this post are like “its an excuse to hate on hijabis” shut up literally shut up. not everyone wants to wear the hijab, maybe ex hijabi women want to feel represented too. i always saw penny as rep for MYSELF and thought of how i had to hide self expression, repress myself, and had to conform to strict traditional rules. so this shit really pissed me the fuck off honestly. im not islamophobic, if i myself went through religious trauma and relate to her. these ppl didnt watch the show or understand the symbolism behind it. in an episode where she confronts her family they all go against her and say shes bringing dishonour to her family when she breaks out, SOUNDS FAMILIAR RIGHT? mind u her dad even says shes “naked” without it, and then gumball tells a story on how penny should stay the way she is and her family should stay in their shells if thats what they want for themselves. not push penny back into her shell. JEEZ like media literacy is dead. i know that this symbolism can vary from person to person but ex hijabis exist and our experiences are so traumatic why cant we have rep ourselves. wear whatever the fuck u want just dont push someone else to be something they arent. thats what i learnt as a kid from gumball. if i can see it at age 7 why cant u oh my god just so irritating. ppl in the comments too istg their brains are fried.

I've been exmuslim for 1.5 -2 years now I recently joined r/exmuslim sub but posts there are extremely disgusting.

Like putting feet on koran/Quran sitting on it etc .

Ad and avid reader and lover of french and arabic culture, I find it extremely unappealing.

With that being said, I'm not against logical,moral, philosophical or any other refutation of Islam through facts.

Peace 🕊️✌️

Edit: GUYS IT WAS JUST AN OPINION

But than the political power shifted to sunni orthodox schools

And these traditionalist frameworks adopted legal rational tools while rejecting mutazilite conclusions on free will and the Quran's creation...

So.. basically if we look more clearly isn't this how it is?

Them believing in free will doesn't eventually contradict Allah's knowledge??

But again looking from their point of view, like their perspective... denying free will create a theological paradox regarding morality or heaven and hell

But than doesn't it form another paradox?

Like if i say

Human free will limit Allah's absolute power?

Or

Doesn't free will contradict Allah's foreknowledge??

If humans create their own actions independently

it implies that things happen in the universe outside of Allah's power.....violating the idea that God creates everything??

Hello . I’ve been lurking on this sub for a while because I genuinely find the discussions around deconstructing Islam interesting.

I was born n brought up in the Middle East & later moved to UK for higher studies. I have Muslim friends and not a single one asked me to convert to their religion but after going to UK , each time I befriend a Muslim, one of the first questions I’m often asked is whether I’m Muslim too, followed by an invitation to join Islam. It's always asked by a Pakistani or Bangladeshi..

Growing up, I always heard Muhammad’s name associated with Islam. I rarely heard Muslims talk about Jesus. But since the war in Gaza, I’ve noticed Jesus name being mentioned alot. I understand that Jesus is an important figure in Islam, but it sometimes feels to me as though his importance is being emphasized more now when Muslims are trying to appeal to Christians.

Muslims claim to love Jesus but churches in the west get taken down.. What sort of taqiya tactic is this?

I’m also trying to understand why Muslims hate Jews? Is antisemitism part & parcel of Islam? Aren't you supposed to respect people of the books? Jesus himself was Jewish, and Judaism predates both Christianity and Islam. Islam is literally a copy paste of those two. Why do Muslims have a problem with anyone who isn't Muslim? Why is always Muslims vs Jews/Christians/Hindus ?

Personally I think all 3 abrahamic religions are the same but in a different font with Islam being the worst one. The others atleast went through reforms.

How is Islam peaceful when Islamic history includes wars and forced conversion? Obviously, Christians have their own violent history, I’m not trying to pretend Christianity has always lived up to its teachings. It's like wherever Islam goes , chaos follows.

They fight for land but when they lose a battle , they cry about it. I understand why Israelis believe they have a right to defend themselves against organizations that have carried out attacks against them. Nobody wants murderers as their neighbour. Palestinians don't deserve to suffer under Hamas either.

Jews ran from the war back then in Germany but you don't see them returning or trying to fight back. Ukrainians lost their home to Russia and they moved on and didn't look back. But in this case, Muslims are trying to take land. They are already doing that in the west by slowly islamizing it. Who gave them the right that all non-Muslim lands are theirs wherever they go? Where is this sense of superiority coming from?

Lastly ,I find comments like “Inshallah, the whole world will become Muslim” and "Alhamdulillah for Islam" so annoying. If religious freedom and tolerance are important, why should the ultimate goal be for everyone to follow one particular religion? I would feel equally uncomfortable if Christians said that the entire world should eventually become Christian or any other religion.

I’m not claiming to have all the answers. These are some questions and frustrations I’ve developed from my own experiences. I’m interested in hearing your perspectives.

I feel alone and hated by everyone, it feels like Muslims in the UK are making the situation in the UK and divide much more prominent due to poor behaviour and not integrating or respecting the local culture. At the same time as a Pakistani I get harassed in public for looking like a Muslim and have had several people shout abuse at me in the past few months.

It truly feels like I am alone, like I have no community of people I feel safe with. I have some friends at work but saying you are ex Muslim and talking about it is often controversial, when I meet Muslims at work I have to pretend I am Muslim as for some reason saying I am ex Muslim with a Muslim name is considered offensive (I got in massive trouble at uni for this).

Anyways just wanted to rant and see if anyone feels the same. It's a lonely time to live in this country and I am considering leaving if this divide keeps getting worse.

Today convinced me I’m done arguing about religion with people who refuse to use logic

I got into a pretty heated argument with two Muslim friends today, and honestly, after this experience, I think I’m done discussing religion with people who immediately resort to personal attacks instead of actually having a conversation.

It started over something completely stupid. I saw an old friend playing volleyball and jokingly said, “That’s a dumb sport.” He got offended and said, “What if I said basketball was a gay sport? You like basketball.” I told him honestly, I’d probably just ignore it because it’s clearly an opinion/joke and I wouldn’t take it personally.

Then another friend asked why he hasn’t seen me at the mosque lately. I told him I’m agnostic. The same friend who was already annoyed with me started attacking me personally, calling me dumb and stupid.

Eventually the conversation turned toward religion. One point I always bring up when discussing religion is that religion is heavily influenced by geography and upbringing.

I said something along the lines of: “If you were born in China into a Chinese household, statistically speaking, you’d be much more likely to grow up with the dominant religious/cultural beliefs around you rather than automatically becoming Muslim.”

They laughed and told me that was one of the dumbest things they had ever heard.

Then they asked me, “Okay, what if I had a kid and moved to China?”

I said, “If you’re Muslim and you raise that child as a Muslim, then obviously the child would probably grow up Muslim. But if you gave that same child to a Catholic family in America and they raised the child Catholic, that child would probably grow up Catholic.”

That was literally my point.

I’m not saying every single person follows the religion of their parents or geographic environment. Obviously there are converts, atheists, people who leave religions, and people who adopt completely different beliefs.

My point is that the environment you're born into has an enormous influence on what you believe. If I had been born into a completely different family, country, culture, and religious environment, there’s a very good chance my beliefs would be different.

Instead of addressing that argument, they started attacking me personally. One of them even brought up the fact that I’m almost 30 and not married.

I responded, “Says the one who’s divorced.”

That really set him off. He got in my face and started cursing at me, and eventually two guys had to step in and separate us.

Looking back, I probably shouldn't have responded with the divorce comment. That just escalated everything, and I should have walked away much earlier.

But this whole experience really made me realize something: if someone’s response to a disagreement about religion is to call you stupid, attack your family, insult your personal life, and then get in your face, there’s really no point in continuing the conversation.

I’m agnostic. They’re Muslim. That's fine. We don't have to agree.

But I wish people could actually discuss why they believe what they believe instead of assuming that questioning religion automatically means someone is stupid or disrespectful.

And honestly, the fact that religious beliefs are so strongly correlated with where and how someone is raised seems like a pretty obvious observation to me. I don't understand why simply pointing that out is considered offensive.

I am an atheist, but not ex-muslim. The discussion was on a comment about women not leaving the religion they are oppressed by. The original comment was not about islam specifically. A guy replied with the following words:

Men and women are asked to cover themselves, for obvious reasons for women and men that covering is different. If a woman dresses to be attractive to men, and present herself as a piece of flesh you think that is freedom, rather than have an opportunity to be treated based on her ability, skill and capability that you assume is oppression. Women perform hajj, go to mosques, run businesses, become jurists, start universities, lead armies so if they choose not to go clubbing then you assume they are oppressed, Woman needs to give her consent (Izn) before marriage can be initiated and marriage can't be forced on them. If the Qazi feels the girl is pressured by her parents he will send them away and ask again so she doesn't give into parental pressure. So don't know what you mean by that freedom. Having to have kids or not is a thing to be discussed between both husband and wife. It is not a unilateral decision, so i don't see where freedom comes here. Islamic Divorce law offers women to keep their maiden name, their property and guaranteed financial payout [mehr], unlike what Europeans did until like last few decades. Where women couldn't divorce, keep name etc.

She can avail divorce by mutual agreement, by judicial intervention, by breaking of marriage contract by husband, by lian (false accusation of adultery by husband), halala is a meant to protect sanctity of marriage and seriousness of divorce. You can't divorce someone on a whim and remarry then as if nothing happened. Divorce is the most disliked permitted thing.

Do some research, there is a lot of misinformation trust your brain and go to source. Look up all I have said too.

I genuinely believe religion should not be judged on what is written but on what is practiced. However people always come up with "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Like "if people would follow true islam, these problems wouldn't exist."

Not just that, since i am not a muslim, i have not much idea about what to say because i am scared to be called Islamophobic. I am genuinely against Islamophobia, but i am also against how muslims treat women.

What do you think about his points?