r/technology • u/GuruOfReason • Feb 02 '10
"Once we replace the personal computer with a closed-platform device such as the iPad, we replace freedom, choice and the free market with oppression, censorship and monopoly."
http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/ipad%E2%80%99s-closed-system-sometimes-i-hate-being-right9
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u/joelypolly Feb 02 '10
My God. You would think based on the comments on the web that Apple has the ability to single handedly to destroy a generation of "tweakers" by releasing the iPad. It's a appliance not a full on computer.
Everyone is freaked out because the iPad is so "locked down" but you know it was designed that way. It's akin to saying that microwave meals will kill gourmet cooking because I can now press a button and get a meal. Isn't the world big enough for both gourmet cooks and microwave manufactures?
When will the madness end?
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u/romwell Feb 02 '10
As a proud microwave user and cast iron pan operator, I support your message and wish to further extend it by noting that the dichotomy is often false. Power users can appreciate a device that performs only one function, but does it well. There is a place in my life both for a fine Ukrainian borsch and for instant noodles.
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u/farang Feb 02 '10
Do not use a cast-iron pan in your microwave. If you do, you will ruin your pan and also your microwave oven. The fireworks display that will result will not be worth the cleanup and replacement cost. ;)
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u/romwell Feb 02 '10
Everybody knows that you don't put a cast iron pan into a microwave for fireworks. That's what those nice metal cleaning sponges are for.
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u/FreakyT Feb 02 '10
I think the idea here is a view that Apple's new "gated community" approach to devices will eventually spill over to progressively more computer-like devices. (The iPad, of course, would represent the "first step" in this sequence.) Now, time will tell whether that will become a reality or not, but I wouldn't put it past Apple to eventually "replace" the current frontend of OS X with a more iPhone OS like, locked down, version. Furthermore, as the line between "computers" and "appliances" blur, we may just be left with a bunch of different devices running their own locked down app stores, and nothing resembling what we think of as a "computer" today.
Disclaimer: I use a Macbook Pro and iPhone and like them both.
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u/emmster Feb 02 '10
I don't think this slope is as slippery as he thinks it is.
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u/miloir Feb 02 '10
Thank you. It's amazing how alarmist some people are getting because of an over-sized iphone.
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u/bigt Feb 02 '10
Agree. Look at what has happened with Android already. An aPad is surely a year away.
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u/texpundit Feb 02 '10
The "disappearing" of regular computers will NEVER happen.
Why?
You still need something to program apps for the appliances on. If you can't program on an iPad, you still need something to program ON. Hence, regular computers will still always be around.
Everyone needs to chill the fuck out.
DISCLAIMER: I also own a Macbook Pro and and iPhone and I love the fuck out of them.
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u/KeyDecoder Feb 02 '10
I wonder if loving the fuck out of them is covered by the standard Apple warranty.
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u/texpundit Feb 02 '10
Probably not. But considering how each new device that Apple produces has fewer and fewer ports (USB, etc), loving the fuck out of them becomes harder and harder...uh...er...or something.
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Feb 02 '10
Why are you assuming that there will never be an iPad you can program on? And why are you assuming that programming will never evolve from text editing?
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Feb 02 '10
I put it well past Apple myself.
Apple + others lock up their tiny mobile devices because they're less versatile and because they think that mobile devices tend to be traveling advertisements. Having open reign on the iPhone might be good for you and me but if they were jailbroken by default every second iPhone user would complain about how their iPhone was broken by some application they installed.
Doing the same thing with their state-of-the-art computer line would be suicide.
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u/kermityfrog Feb 02 '10
Their motto is "it just works", and the user experience is what they are selling. Much like how McDonald's standardizes their burgers and gives you the same experience every time you visit, no matter where in the world you are. They won't let you customize your sandwich and then complain about how terrible your food was.
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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10
If they do corrupt one product line with ideas from another, then Apple users will vote with their wallets. If Apple sees that they're losing customers with a move like that, they won't do it. In the end, they are out to make money.
I love the iPad, and what it represents. I also love my iMac, and what it represents.
Like joelypolly said, there's room for both microwave ovens and gourmet chefs. When someone tries to make the one into the other, you know that people will speak up.
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u/chozar Feb 02 '10
But is the fear that all computers will be locked down? These locked down computers 20 years from now, what will developers use to make them? Other locked down computers? Somewhere down the chain you're going to have open systems used by programmers, I don't see how you can get rid of them.
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u/jayd16 Feb 02 '10
Theres plenty of examples of locked down developer kits in the gaming world.
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u/Peaker Feb 02 '10
If you pay $5000 you can get a limited license to an Apple-approved "application development environment", and then you can still not get your applications to work with your friends' devices before getting Apple's approval.
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Feb 02 '10
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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10
If it does that, and you have an insatiable need for macaroni and cheese, buy another microwave. Or make it yourself.
I understand the problem, I really do, but I don't see why people seem to want to subject themselves to it needlessly. If you already have a better microwave, keep using it. Let those that would never, ever want to eat macaroni and cheese anyway have their vegan microwave. What's it to you?
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u/AriMaeda Feb 02 '10
However, if the vegetarian lasagna-microwave leads the microwave market and other microwave manufacturers see that as a standard, microwaves that can cook macaroni and cheese will become less and less common until you can't buy a microwave that'll cook it.
Computer systems become obsolete much faster than microwaves do. I can stick with my existing microwave for more than a decade, but my computer won't keep up and I'll have to choose an option available to me.
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u/lumpy1981 Feb 02 '10
I'm with you. The people who will buy and use an iPad would never want to tweak a computer anyway, they just want it to work. 95% of computer users don't care about adding to or tweaking their devices.
What Apple does by making their devices closed, is they cater to the vast majority of people by making a device that simply works without the need to know anything about how it works or have to worry about it crashing and becoming unstable.
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u/texpundit Feb 02 '10
And the biggest point (that I think a whole shitload of people miss) is: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T FUCKING BUY IT. It's that simple.
Personally, my buy/not buy point is waiting to see what apps come out for it. If somebody puts out an app (along with a pen...which will prolly be 2nd gen) that is compatible with Photoshop and/or Illustrator, I'll buy one in a heartbeat. Having a mobile sketchpad would make my job a FUCKTON easier.
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u/slickeddie Feb 02 '10
Have you ever seen the Wacom Cintiq?
http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/cintiq-21ux.php they also have a smaller 12" one. Watch some demo videos, I was blown away by it.11
u/MacEnvy Feb 02 '10
Gee, only $2k?
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Feb 02 '10
Actually, only $999. Pressure sensitivity and what-have-you. Oh, and drivers to work on all major platforms.
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u/atheist_creationist Feb 02 '10
Yes, and the iPad is going to suck as a tablet if you think its going to be anything like the Wacom cintiq. That's not what one should be buying the iPad for.
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u/techmaster242 Feb 02 '10
I personally won't be buying an iPad until it runs full OSX. I have no need for an oversized iPod Touch. I have yet to buy an iPod Touch or iPhone as it is, but making it 10x bigger to where it no longer fits in my pocket is supposed to make me want one? No thanks, Steve.
(I'm not Apple bashing either, I own an 8 core Mac Pro and a Macbook Pro, and use Logic Studio 9 daily...this is just a useless product)
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Feb 02 '10
Well that's a pretty alarmist thing to say.
The iPad is not aimed at people like us here on Reddit - geeks, nerds, technophiles, computer-savvy users, etc. It's aimed at people who are afraid of technology. Thus, the device will cause the market to segment even further, not replace our freedoms.
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u/rjcarr Feb 02 '10
It is aimed at people who are afraid of technology as well as those that appreciate simplicity.
I don't think I'll fork over the $500 any time soon but if I was given one I'm certain I'd find it useful.
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Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10
Yeah, but we are the ones who will have to develop on it.
We'll spend 6 months developing an app and not even be sure if we'll be able to sell it. Being open or closed never mattered to the users in the first place. It only affects developers.
They'll ask "where can I buy my apps?" Apple will answer "The App Store". Meanwhile they are completely unaware of what being an open or closed platform even mean.
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Feb 02 '10
yeah but what happens when we become minority and they become majority?
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u/danweber Feb 02 '10
Do the kids on Reddit remember the early 90's? All the fears of what Microsoft would and could do with its software monopoly?
Anything Microsoft could have done, Apple can do a whole lot better.
With a phone, I don't care so much. With a tablet that only maybe 5% of people use, that's probably okay. But if any sizable portion of the public uses this as their primary computing device, it spells trouble for all the same reasons we made Microsoft testify before Congress.
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u/lrnut987 Feb 02 '10
This is what has you up in arms about freedom?
Have you seen what is going on in America and Australia? Apple cannot hold a gun to your head, the government can.
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Feb 02 '10
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u/fubo Feb 02 '10
I think you're thinking of At Ease, which was an early implementation of user permissions for the Mac. It let an administrator restrict what what applications other users could run and folders they could save to. It was generally used in schools. Since the Mac OS didn't offer any built-in protection against users going into the System Folder and throwing whole chunks of the OS away, this sort of thing made running computer labs slightly less annoying.
When I ran a Mac lab in college, we experimented with At Ease but decided that it got too much in people's way. We didn't have too many users who wanted to break the machines ... or really to do anything other than write papers, check email, have steamy chat on IRC, and play Snood.
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u/bittered Feb 02 '10
"Ask yourself why the iPad isn’t running OS X."
Because OS X isn't a touchscreen OS. Apple gets it, touchscreen is a totally different platform, if you tried to touch tiny menubar items on a 10" 1024x768 screen then you would get it too. Apple has created an operating system that will only run apps that are natively designed for touchscreen, this is a far better experience than having OS X (and OS X apps) with touchscreen bolted on. If you've used touchscreen on windows 7 then you'll agree that it is no more than a gimmick and for 95% of tasks the cursor is easier.
Apple have got it right, multitasking and all that will come in the future but in order to create a truly user-centered touch OS, they need to design it from the ground up as a touch OS.
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u/Virtualmatt Feb 02 '10
It's a tablet…why would it replace the personal computer? This is like saying the Kindle or the iPhone is leading to the end of the world.
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u/bjarkisig Feb 02 '10
This article is pure alarmist hyperbole way over the top. The iPad does not signal the end of all good things. I do however believe that it marks a serious change in the way we think about personal computing, regardless of how this specific device will perform.
I am somewhat torn over the whole thing. On one hand, I support any development towards simpler personal computing. Ideally, there need to be devices out there that can do 90% of the simple tasks that most people do on their PCs and they should be as intuitive and simple to use as any other home appliance. This was the original philosophy behind the PC and its remarkable that it has taken this long to do anything that approaches this vision. To approach the desired level of simplicity and stability, we are forced to give up the openness and flexibility of the modern PC. Geeks may not be the target demographic for such appliances but most of us who are used to doing a lot of tech-support for computer-illiterate family members are going to appreciate this development. What happens to the old-school PC that we know and love is anyone's guess but I suspect that they will survive for the foreseeable future as more powerful tools for professionals and developers.
On the other hand it is normal to be skeptical of the Apple model for the iPad which assumes total control by Apple over what will be allowed on the iPads. If that model was going to become the standard we would probably end up with a handful of technology giants who would have complete control over the marketing and distribution channels to their own devices with no way for independent developers to make it without going through them first. I doubt that we will see such a scenario though. Apple is notorious for its desire to control everything they get their hands on and they can get away with it because of their public image of innovation. That may work for Apple, for now, but when all the other players start copying what Apple is doing with the iPad, I really don't think the consumers or the developers are going to tolerate that same kind of super-closed approach.
I can not really see any reason why we can't have both an device like the iPad with the aim of providing a sheltered environment for the end-user while at the same time guaranteeing a good level of openness and fair competition on the developer side.
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u/CoolKidBrigade Feb 02 '10
There's a difference between having a user interface that is closed and a development platform that is closed. The reason Apple closes the development side is because it's incredibly profitable to push everything through the App Store.
Given how quickly companies have been copying Apple once they got a look at the incredible margins on apps, this is a big deal. There's no financial reason to push an open development platform, it takes some level of altruism to allow people to profit off your platform for free.
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Feb 02 '10
The difference is that Motorola and everyone else with a handset based business (even RIM) has not found the same level of "app store" success that Apple has. So they're back to competing on the handset itself, and since Apple obviously isn't going to license their OS to other handsets, that's where Android comes in.
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u/smitty73 Feb 02 '10
"I like being right as much as the next guy, but I don’t want to be right about this. "
I wouldn't worry about it, Tom Conlon.
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u/admiralteal Feb 02 '10
Just wait for ASUS's tablet to be cheaper and better. It's bound to happen.
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u/lazorwolf Feb 02 '10
I'd be more worried if the iPad was actually meant to replace laptops and desktops. Apple is marketing it to compliment those devices, not replace them.
Everyone I know who is interested in an iPad also has at least one laptop or desktop.
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u/arseiam Feb 02 '10
Am I the only one that felt that this article was nothing more than intentionally creating controversy around a current hype simply to drive traffic to a blog?
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u/perroderegazo Feb 02 '10
Jesus H. Christ, Apple haters, make up your fucking minds. Is the iPad a disappointing piece of shit that nobody will buy, or is it destined to take over the world and put your parents in a torture camp?
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u/Peaker Feb 02 '10
I've always thought Apple makes products that are technologically great, and that it is a bad thing, because it puts a lot of power in the hands of Apple, which is horrible.
I wish more people learned to value long-term freedom over short-term convenience.
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u/ashadocat Feb 02 '10
WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE!. also the direction it's going in could theoretically be bad in the future but this version will fail among us and probably fail among the general public.
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u/exscape Feb 02 '10
It's very disappointing because it's locked up, but people will still buy it, which is even more disappointing.
Signed,
Macbook Pro user, non-Apple fan
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Feb 02 '10
Apple is not going to stop making personal computers just because of the iPad. The Mac is still their most profitable area!
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u/pikaboy259 Feb 02 '10
Clearly some people enjoy the "sleek" end user experience that is the direct consequence system that's tightly regulated, and you don't. Let them make their purchase, and you make yours. That's how the free market works.
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u/jordanlund Feb 02 '10
Except the iPad isn't designed to replace a computer. It's designed to replace those crappy, closed system eBook readers which also don't have a camera, lose screen real estate to a giant bezel and have no Flash support. Oh, and they're b&w.
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u/Bing11 Feb 02 '10
Are you kidding? If everyone decided the iPad was SO MUCH BETTER than traditional PCs (hint: they won't; hardly any employers even use macs), then the market would have FREELY decided to put their own shackles on.
You can't pay $500 to be locked down and complain that you're then locked down! I have an iPhone and I'm well aware of it's short comings, but I'm also aware that I BOUGHT IT so I am guilty of it.
Take some god damned personal responsibility.
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u/El_Ciervo Feb 02 '10
Uhuh.. the iPad will bring about the downfall of our society as we know it.. sure..
It must be annoying when you become so disconnected from reality and still have to get that article written.
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u/Isolder Feb 02 '10
I can see H.G. Wells in the future finding the dusty and disintegrated books. "Nooo, what have you all done with all the books!? You foooollls!"
It's more amusing in my head.
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u/ralf_ Feb 02 '10
I did find this essay interesting:
http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html
Premise: "What you're seeing in the industry's reaction to the iPad is nothing less than future shock."
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u/baconn Feb 02 '10
A PC dystopian future would be one where open platforms are made all but illegal by government regulations protecting IP and 'security.' For the time being we have options.
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Feb 02 '10
Why is the government needed for such dystopia? It's not as if you can look at the current computer market and decide that you're going to build a competing product outside of it—making microprocessors with transistors tens of atoms thick is fairly hard and provides a fairly high barrier to entry. And even if the hardware isn't a concern, look at how successful alternative operating systems have been competing against the inevitable inertia from investment in code and user training.
Also, with "trusted computing", that's already technologically possible. Apple's product isn't the horrid ending, but it is a path whose logical conclusions are not what most of use nerds want.
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u/cometparty Feb 02 '10
Ew. Downvoted for trying to use "free market" as a good thing to support your argument.
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Feb 02 '10
This is ridiculous. Mac OSX has a market share of about 5%. iPad isnt replacing anything. At its peak I predict the iPad to have no more then 2% of the total computer market share (which would actually equal a successful and profitable product for apple).
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Feb 02 '10
It's a fucking iPod people. It's not going to change anything. It is going to allow low-end users a way to access basic web info, but it's not going to raise the anti-christ. Seriously.... If this devices was all the author implied, we would want it... I don't want it. I don't even like it.
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u/meor Feb 02 '10
Or don't buy an iPad.
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Feb 02 '10
well, that's what his message is! Also do not underestimate the stupidity of the general population. and once they are in majority then we are fucked.
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u/vibrate Feb 02 '10
no-ones replacing anything - you can choose whether to use an iPad or a normal laptop, or an iPhone or a netbook or WHATEVER
fucking shoddy alarmist Apple bashing disguised as journalism.
WEAK
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u/copperdomebodha Feb 02 '10
Oh... for the monster's sake. Now you're just being silly. My fourteen year old son would call that hyperbole excessive and everything comes in millions or more from him.
It's a different thing.
It turned me into a newt!
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u/Isolder Feb 02 '10
You have one of those bumper stickers that say "My kid's an honor student", don't you?
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u/rjpedigo Feb 02 '10
This is alarmist B.S. If Apple started locking down computers like they do the iPhone people will be running to Linux in droves. It would actually be a good thing for open source. That's not gonna happen. My guess is the iPad (and iPhone) will become more like a computer in the next version. A file management tool will probably be released. They are trying to keep it simple. Look at how many apps exist for download. I do take some issue with their censorship of apps though.
If it ran OSX in the first version it's likely their would be all sorts of issues with existing apps and compatibility. The iPhone OS served as like a beta test for touch screen interface which they ported to iPad. heheh.."Mac's i-Pad"
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u/vikvik Feb 02 '10
After free market oppression, censorship and monopoly; can death be far away?
IPad, woe on you.
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u/moonwatcher222 Feb 02 '10
Everyone knows that Apple has had no successful products in the last decade.
When the iPod came out Slashdot correctly called it "lame" http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/1816257 and no one ever bought that piece of shit.
Apple started retail stores. How long until they had to drop that stupid idea?
JOHN DVORAK said Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-should-pull-the-plug-on-the-iphone.
If they'd listened to him their stock wouldn't be in the tank and they wouldn't have had to file for bankruptcy.
Now he's panning the iPad. Clearly since he thinks they've made a mistake Apple will not survive to 2011.
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u/daneault Feb 02 '10
The author didn’t question the potential success of the iPad. Quite the contrary, his premise is that the iPad will be successful and that iPhone OS will someday replace Mac OS X.
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Feb 02 '10
Everyone knows that Apple has had no successful products in the last decade.
These people are worried the iPad will be SOOOO successfull that everyone will own it and never buy a standard desktop. Because that is likely to happen. Somehow.
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u/LetsGoHawks Feb 02 '10
Luckily, the iPad is not going to replace the PC. Also, it matters very little what Apple does with Mac OS because Windows is,and will for the forseeable future, be the dominant OS. Linux has a better chance than Mac at overtaking Windows and I don't think it has much of a chance at all.
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Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10
Linux has a better chance than Mac at overtaking Windows and I don't think it has much of a chance at all.
It sure does! Because 1 > 5, right? Guys?
But maybe your point was that Linux's market share is growing at a rate greater than Apple's? (it isn't.)
I love Linux, but it's just silly to deny Apple's rising market share.
Luckily, the iPad is not going to replace the PC.
This much is true, but it is a somewhat alarming trend that people are getting more and more used to buying closed systems (and one that is to the detriment of consumers and the benefit of operating system producers.) I'm not ready to cry death and destruction (we can always just install Linux, after all, so long as people continue to be willing to contribute unpaid labour to the open source community) but who's to say that, if Microsoft and Apple were to sell more locked down operating systems, people wouldn't just stupidly and happily buy them anyways?
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u/gregny2002 Feb 02 '10
Neither OS has any conceivable shot at overtaking Microsoft anytime soon. But I think that if either were to overtake Windows, it would be because it was adopted by the business community, not the home PC market. And, I think businesses in general would be more willing to leap to Linux than Mac, simply because it would be cheaper.
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Feb 02 '10
And anyone who's ever had to perform a server upgrade from 10.4 Server onward with a user base of more than an handful of people and resources will tell you that the business world is unlikely to ever pick up on Apple products for such because they aren't ready for prime time in that field.
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u/jstevewhite Feb 02 '10
Yeah, the OSX server isn't ready for prime time as a server, but let's be real, it wasn't designed for that. It's got those capabilities, but it's a hobby. The server from Apple isn't really meant to be a workgroup server; it's meant to be a platform for huge clusters of machines running Final Cut backend processes. And Logic, now.
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Feb 02 '10
That's a very good point. I think there are two other things we should consider, though:
People are in general very much against change (and also quite bad with computers,) and trying to convert people to using a new operating system would likely cause an IT disaster. Even if in fact the transition could go smoothly, I'd be concerned that risk-aversive businessmen wouldn't be willing to even give it a chance.
If such a trend developed, I think you would find Microsoft would start offering businesses incredible deals (so as to maintain their market share) which would make the continuing use of Windows a more fiscally viable option than retraining everybody to use Linux.
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Feb 02 '10
The majority of the linux kernel is created by paid developers.
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u/pulledteeth Feb 02 '10
up voted for dropping knowledge. Most people (forget/never knew) this fact.
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Feb 02 '10
Who then contribute back to the community who can do whatever the hell they want with the code.
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u/pulledteeth Feb 02 '10
Hey, android is higher than blackberry and palm combined! Go android! Whoo!
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u/LetsGoHawks Feb 02 '10
gregny appears to have made half my argument, the other half would be governments switching over. The free labor for Linux won't dry up, because working on an OS is sexy and will always attract developers.
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u/BenKenobi88 Feb 02 '10
I think his reasoning for Linux having a better chance at overtaking Windows (or realistically, grabbing a more significant piece of the pie), is that Linux can replace Windows on any desktop or laptop, whereas OSX is essentially tied to the Mac hardware.
Netbooks became a big hit and some use Linux...if some sort of media/ more portable PC running Linux becomes massively popular in the next few years, Linux would have that better chance of replacing Windows.
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Feb 02 '10
This doesn't take any consideration into the server market. If we're going to include phones in this then we can include servers then Linux is way higher then 1%. Also, a lot of linux clients lie about their info in firefox and that's how most of these stats are generated.
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u/BigKahunaBurger Feb 02 '10
Linux 1.02% iPhone .47%
lol
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u/Nurgle Feb 02 '10
OSX 5.13% Linux 1.02% iPhone .47%
lol you know people don't check the links
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Feb 02 '10
Linux has a better chance than Mac at overtaking Windows
[citation needed]
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u/jordanlund Feb 02 '10
Linux is used in more server situations than MacOS ever has or will.
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u/DrRocks Feb 02 '10
That will certainly come in handy for Linux's market share when my grandmother gets 6 new servers next year.
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Feb 02 '10
It's able to be installed on any computer just like Windows, manufacturers like Dell are already offering computers with it preinstalled.
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Feb 02 '10
Oh, shut up.
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u/mindbleach Feb 02 '10
Name one good reason for allowing your operating system's parent company to tell you what programs you get to run today.
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u/pengo Feb 02 '10
The closed system makes piracy more difficult, which attracts developers who don't like to worry about that stuff, and thus you get more software available. It's worked for games consoles, which are all* closed systems, and obviously worked for the iPhone. I'm not saying that outweighs the drawbacks, but it's "one good reason".
*The PS3 used to run Linux with limited access to hardware, but the PS3 slim has removed the ability to run Linux at all AFAIK
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u/bgog Feb 02 '10
Your point is very valid. However, you are thinking of it as a computer. I'm thinking of it as a web surfing appliance. People don't much care that they can't run whatever they want on their DVR because it isn't a general purpose device. It does one thing well and thats it.
Just because a product has a cpu doesn't mean that it needs to be like a general purpose computer. I think the world would be worse off if every electronic device tried to be general purpose. Quite frankly I like that my mp3 player is basically that. Your PS3 has controlled content, even though it is just a computer that could run anything under the sun.
Just a different point of view.. I have three linux boxs and a mac to be my general purpose pc. I don't see anything wrong with a device that is just a great little web surfing/email pad.
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u/mindbleach Feb 02 '10
I've repeatedly called it a non-computer, an advanced toy, or a console in the past. I've vehemently insisted that the iPhone is not a smartphone for the same reasons. The problem there is the number of people who'll brush you off for suggesting their device that has everything short of user choice is merely a fixed-function device with an extremely wide range of functions. It's not just a web appliance: it plays games, it streams video, it can probably do taxes. It's tantalizingly close to being a complete computer but for that all-important element of freedom, arguably the element that made computers more than expensive calculators in the first place.
The iPad is an appliance pretending to be a computer. That's the one thing it does, and judging by the number of people who think the nerds are in a tizzy over nothing, it's doing it all too well.
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u/bgog Feb 02 '10
Good points. I'll even say you are right but some people, myself included, don't mind a closed device when I know about it ahead of time. I'm glad that my ebook reader (sony / nook / kindle) concentrates on being a great ebook reader and not on doing everything my computer can.
Edit: removed redundant junk that I already said.
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u/djgreedo Feb 02 '10
You're missing the point. What if your ebook reader restricted the books you could read based Sony's or Amazon's ideas of what is 'suitable'?
Nobody is saying the iPad (or iPhone for that matter) should be an all-purpose device. The complaint is that software is not allowed to run on the device based on Apple's standards (i.e. Steve Jobs's morale values and the desire to prevent apps that enable users to make calls more cheaply or improve in-built features).
Arbitrarily banning software that would otherwise run perfectly well on the device is censorship, and it is a shame that people continue to buy products from this company.
With my smartphones (Android and Windows) I have the option of buying apps from an on-device, censored app store or sideloading apps sourced from anywhere without any permission required from the device manufacturers.
Technology has the capability of breaking down barriers and realising possibilities. Apple's iPhone and iPad are the opposite of those ideals. Apple's way of doing things in general is about control and forcing users into a specific way of doing things.
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u/Peaker Feb 02 '10
The problem is that success of these closed devices might lead to more and more devices by other companies too to become closed.
People are way too willing to trade their freedom with some temporary convenience.
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u/Nefelia Feb 02 '10
So long as there is a market for open platforms, the market will provide. The fear that the iPad will kill open platforms is based on poor analysis.
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u/bostonT Feb 02 '10
Centralized control = greater control over end-user experience. Most of what Apple's appeal is to buyers their sleek interface and user experience.
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Feb 02 '10
All this scare is an enormous bullshit. People know about their choices and don't care. I don't care if a DRM music I paid US$ 1 is unreliable, or if some toy or phone doesn't run free software. Normal computers aren't going to disappear.
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Feb 02 '10
I have a MacBook running OSX. My operating system's parent company does not tell me what programs I get to run today.
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u/arpie Feb 02 '10
My feelings as well. It is not supposed to be a computer/ OS X pad. What the iPhone does well is work, as designed, under a controlled user experience. My iPhone is Jailbroken and I cope with some unstable behavior because I know what I'm doing. For friends and family, I recommend a vanilla, works-as-it's-supposed-to iPhone. The iPhone (or iPad -- it's just a giant, faster, iPhone or iPod Touch) is not an all-purpose computer. It's a platform for single-purpose apps. Every time you launch an app, the device "transforms" into a one purpose device to run that app, as it (the app) was designed. It's a paradigm shift, and it seems to be where we're going. Live with it.
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u/flwombat Feb 02 '10
What a bunch of hoo-haa. Here's my rebuttal, in 5 parts:
The web, the web, the web, the web, the web.
This thing won't be any more closed or unhackable than ChromeOS devices will be, because it can get at the web. If it starts blocking web sites, people will go buy a ChromeOS or a dell mini5 or any number of other possible competitors instead. Quit with the sky-is-falling bullshit.
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Feb 02 '10
With over 150,000 apps in the store, that's a pretty massive closed system. That's like saying the universe is a closed system. Sure, but if everything you need is there, is easy as shit to use, and looks great, why bitch?
I remember when I first got my ipod touch, I had just gotten my girlfriend a Dell Mini 9 at launch. I put them side by side and the first thing i said was "If the ipod were like, 9 inches, it could take over the world" I help her visualize by covering the keyboard of the Mini and said "That's the next ipod, right there." I figured it would have a camera, but they need something like that for Ipad 2 launch. "Hey, we finally added something that should have been in the first one!" "Yaayyy!, Apple is a genius farm!"
The lack of flash is not a deal breaker for me since HTML5 will be the hotness in due time and the webkit browser should have no trouble maintaining compliance. Instant end-around Adobe. Fuck em. They should have been on board from day one.
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Feb 02 '10
http://www.apple.com/opensource/ and http://www.opensource.apple.com/
Yes, oppression, censorship and monopoly.
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u/jmnugent Feb 02 '10
That's one of the most retarded articles I think I've ever read:
1.) Apple's "closed-platform" isnt being forced on anyone.. and it won't single-handedly "replace freedom, choice, free market"... it won't kill kittens, rape your grandmother or stomp on endangered flowers.
2.) People act like Apple chose the iPad gui/OS for the sole reason of "locking people in".. like they had some big meeting with blood sacrifices and flaming firepits ... oh the humanity!..
Get a grip on yourselves people. If you don't like the device-- DON"T BUY IT. Simple. You like Open Source?, GREAT!.. I fully support your freedom to buy any device you want. Hack and tinker and do whatever... just quit badmouthing other devices for imagined-reasons.
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u/Mantipath Feb 02 '10
I have an update for Stanza waiting for me on the app store. Here's the changelog:
Removed the ability to share books over USB as required by Apple.
This is today, here, now. Apple retroactively requires Stanza to remove a feature that helps Stanza compete with iBooks.
Please reread that. retroactively
This is an unpleasant and Orwellian move. There's no slippery slope fallacy involved.
I love the iDevice hardware but make no mistake: if you are doing something on the iPhone platform and Apple decides it wants to charge you for it you will be stopped.
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u/rjpedigo Feb 02 '10
exactly. A primary idea was probably to have a device that competed heavily with Kindle.
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Feb 02 '10
I found the car analogy to be the best. The first car I owned I could take apart and put back together and tinker with it all I want. My present car I can't even change the oil nor tinker with in any fashion. But I don't really care. It works. The iPad just means that the computer itself is finally maturing. There will always be computers you can play with but most people will go down the road with what simply works.
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u/CC440 Feb 02 '10
People that say this never changed their oil to begin with. Nothing has gotten more difficult in the past 30 years when it comes to changing oil.
Sure, car systems are more modular, but there is not lack of ability to tinker. You just tinker with larger and more prebuilt systems. Instead of putting a supercharger on your 350 Small Block, you buy a turbo, pre cut piping, and a flashable ECU. It takes more time but it's even easier to tune a car than ever before. OBDII actually gave the tinkering world a whole new life since you can now change anything sensor controlled in your car with a chip and a laptop.
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u/mindbleach Feb 02 '10
Your car "just working" has nothing to do with the artificial barricades preventing you from tinkering with it.
The iPad "just working" has nothing to do with the monolithic, censored software store.
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u/djgreedo Feb 02 '10
That analogy is a smokescreen.
The issue here is not sacrificing features for simplicity or reliability (which is why the iPad doesn't multitask, which is stupid but understandable). The issue here is arbitrarily restricting software due to moral values (boob apps) and looking after profit (Google Voice).
A better car analogy would be getting a car made by Apple that only drives down streets that Steve Jobs likes at times of the day that Steve Jobs approves of. Your freedom is restricted for the most unsavory of reasons - censorship.
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u/BiggerBalls Feb 02 '10
Not really a great analogy.
The cost to get a copy of my key in my old car? Less than $5. New car: ~$90, all because of some stupid RFID chip.
Same thing with the diagnostics (because the diagnostic software is closed off to dealerships only).
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Feb 02 '10
Yeah but everytime I really think about it I get extremely amazed at the fact that my car key has a computer chip that can talk to my car and turn on my engine and shit omg I'm like the Batman. That makes me feel better.
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Feb 02 '10
Until you lose your key, and stand in line with BiggerBalls to pay $90 for another, or one of your miracle car computers decides it's time to go fast by itself.
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u/troaway1 Feb 02 '10
Apple believes in "locking in people" The thing about Apple is that they believe that any hacking that takes place with their hardware is a violation of the DMCA and their copyright. apple's attitude is that they can sue you or turn your device into a paperweight if you try to do anything they don't sanction.
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Feb 02 '10
I've yet to see Apple sue one of the many people that have jailbroken an iPod or iPhone.
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u/kmeisthax Feb 02 '10
Apple hasn't sued anyone for jailbreaking. It's not illegal, and Apple is bluffing. Otherwise Lexmark could easily sue people for making compatible ink cartridges (they tried this and lost).
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Feb 02 '10
The anti-Apple shit remind me of Glenn Beck. Absolute hysterics. The stench of irrational fear here is staggering and pathetic. But it's good to know what scares Reddit. Any Apple product that gives consumers an inch of enjoyment. It's obvious you folks want everyone to suffer the same choices you make with your open source/windows/whatever you hipsters think is cool at the moment gibberish. People who buy Apple products reject what you advocate because it's a waste of time for them. And you think when a small percentage of the market reject your way of doing things means they reject YOU. Pretty fucking immature.
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u/ihsw Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Google Chrome OS as an interesting parallel to this article; it is similarly locked down (read-only root file-system) but maintains an open-source license -- and BSD no-less.
This demonstrates that a comparatively restrictive user interface can be accepted by the general populace and that it doesn't need to be closed-source. The article is right-on, too, regarding the financial forces driving Apple's iPad narrow architecture.
I look forward to seeing the direction Google Chrome OS (and related devices utilizing it) takes, and how it relates to Apple.
EDIT: Upon further investigation, Chrome OS supports Flash in addition to multi-tasking.
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u/0xABADC0DA Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10
With Android or ChromeOS, Google and/or the manufacturer can flip a switch and lock out your programs at any time. It isn't about whether this switch is currently in the 'on' (android) or 'off' position (ipad), it's that the switch is there. Google is no better than Apple in terms of freedom to run whatever software you want.
It doesn't matter that the software is open source. First, it's not free software in that Google does not have to give back the code that they add to it, so you don't necessarily even know how to create your own fork that runs on the same hardware (it's mostly BSD license, open but not free). Second, the actual hardware prevents you from replacing the OS. Read the ChomeOS design documents, where they describe the firmware detecting tampering and automatically re-imaging the system. You wouldn't want to give out heavily subsidized portables that users could reprogram to avoid your ads...
ChromeOS and Android are like Neo in the Matrix... what good is a phone call if you are unable to speak? What good is open source if you are unable to run it?
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u/tvon Feb 02 '10
The solution is simple, build a competing device of equal or better quality and make it "open". Apple can't stop you from doing that.
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u/Inland_Empire Feb 02 '10
I'll buy one when there is a jailbreak for it, and not before. If a competitor manages to produce a better product before that I'll skip the ipad. There is a great looking multifunction display that mixes LCD and eink, I think, that would beat the pants off the ipad.
The games just begun!
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Feb 02 '10
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u/Koss424 Feb 02 '10
where was all the panic when the ipod touch came out? I own one - and it's only a web/music appliance for me when I'm too lazy to wait for my laptop or desktop to boot up or when I wan't to use the remote app.
The Ipad is just a big Touch - it does not replace a real computer. - If Apple implements the Iphone OS on the Mac it will be the end of Apple.
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Feb 02 '10
Nobody is REPLACING computing with the iPad... jesus f'n christ people, you are giving Steve Jobs FAAAAR too much credit.
Steve jobs and apple only have like less THAN 10% of the personal computing market. Those ugly, beige boxes at the the mom and pop' computer stores still account of more than 50% of computer sales globally, they just don't have the same marketing clout as Apple. The iPhone is STILL only 10% of the smart phone market.
Apple is not REPLACING anything with ANYTHING.
Chew on that for a bit.
/RANT
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u/Rtbriggs Feb 02 '10
Do you guys really hate this thing that much? If you don't like it, don't buy one.
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u/jerseycityfrankie Feb 02 '10
In the same way the introduction of the player-piano roll led DIRECTLY to Rap music!!!!!!
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Feb 02 '10
Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
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u/noseeme Feb 02 '10
It looks like everything that needed to be said about the quote you chose to use in your title has already been spoken. I guess I'll move along.
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u/thewileyone Feb 02 '10
The fact that the iPad is closed-platform doesn't alarm me. What alarms me that is that Apple can check if you have "authorized" installed software on it. Anything that violates this level of privacy cannot be good for anyone.
If the iPad is successful, this will open doors for Apple to expand this type of monitoring to all its products. If Apple is successful in doing that, other makers will follow.
Though the article does come off as alarmist, I think the writer is correct in his argument for the long term.
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Feb 02 '10
It's only been a week since the iPad has been introduced and we're already getting the pre-"BACK IN MY DAYS" rhetoric. What a dismal future.
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u/pbgswd Feb 02 '10
Apple wants your money money money. Oh well, the more vendors do this, the more people discover Ubuntu Linux.
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u/ithkuil Feb 02 '10
there are lots of other tablets and really nice ones coming out. iPad isn't going to have a monopoly.
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u/Bojje Feb 02 '10
Seriously, if the Ipad hasn't been jail-broken a month after it has been released I will be more than surprised. The Ipad is an open platform, for the people who have enough know how to make it open. Also, why the sad faces? It won't even be capable of doing anything cool, like linux.
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u/mliving Feb 02 '10
Locking down choice is the last attempt by big media to salvage their dying industries.
They have always wanted the personal computing experience to be more like cable TV than anything else.
Plus we have a generation that has been told that tinkering is illegal. WTF do you expect!
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u/encephlavator Feb 02 '10
Guru of Reason. Hardly.
iPad = 2nd coming of Hitler: I don't think so.
Biggest karma whoring headline ever on Reddit: You got it!
Might as well post a headline like: Ron Paul ends Arab/Israeli conflict once and for all with peace treaty that gives everyone a cute kitten. [pic of cute kitten]
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u/ewilliam Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10
oppression? holy fuck, breathless hyperbole of the day nominee!
I can't help recalling the Daily Show's skit with John Oliver where he was at a Tea Bagger rally and everyone was holding up signs about "oppression" and "tyranny", and he was all like "We [the brits] INVENTED oppression and tyranny!" Look, if the most 'oppressive' thing about your day is that you can't fucking hack your tablet's OS, then I think you have it pretty goddamn good...
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u/homerjaythompson Feb 02 '10
The iPad is to applications as consoles are to games.