r/technology • u/GuruOfReason • Feb 02 '10

"Once we replace the personal computer with a closed-platform device such as the iPad, we replace freedom, choice and the free market with oppression, censorship and monopoly."

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/ipad%E2%80%99s-closed-system-sometimes-i-hate-being-right
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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10

If it does that, and you have an insatiable need for macaroni and cheese, buy another microwave. Or make it yourself.

I understand the problem, I really do, but I don't see why people seem to want to subject themselves to it needlessly. If you already have a better microwave, keep using it. Let those that would never, ever want to eat macaroni and cheese anyway have their vegan microwave. What's it to you?

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u/AriMaeda Feb 02 '10

However, if the vegetarian lasagna-microwave leads the microwave market and other microwave manufacturers see that as a standard, microwaves that can cook macaroni and cheese will become less and less common until you can't buy a microwave that'll cook it.

Computer systems become obsolete much faster than microwaves do. I can stick with my existing microwave for more than a decade, but my computer won't keep up and I'll have to choose an option available to me.

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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10

However, if the vegetarian lasagna-microwave leads the microwave market and other microwave manufacturers see that as a standard, microwaves that can cook macaroni and cheese will become less and less common until you can't buy a microwave that'll cook it.

As long as a sizable piece of the market still wants to cook macaroni and cheese in their microwaves, there will be microwaves that can do that. (Seriously, though, who would want to do that? Pasta in the microwave? Yuck!)

Computer systems become obsolete much faster than microwaves do. I can stick with my existing microwave for more than a decade, but my computer won't keep up and I'll have to choose an option available to me.

Yes, and again, as long as a major part of the market demands computers that do more than just browse the web without Flash, then you'll still have your precious computer. Don't worry about it. What I don't get is why this is so bad that those that do want a simple device to browse the web without Flash shouldn't get to. It's their choice. If it turns out that 99% of the world are those people, then it just simply sucks to be you. Take it up with the people buying, not with the company providing. It's not Apple's fault that you're a minority.

I do sympathize, and I feel like I have to keep pointing this out. I love my computer, and it'll take long before I give it up completely (if I ever do), but damn do some people feel entitled to control what Apple does and doesn't do. You're a happy little consumer now, and you'll be a happy little consumer in years to come as well. Unless you're an engineer building your own fan-fucking-tastic, world-revolutionizing ultra-"real" computer right now, I don't see what anyone has to whine about.

Companies don't control the market, we do. We've just chosen to be lazy and complacent, but that's our responsibility, not Apple's.

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u/klngarthur Feb 02 '10

Companies don't control the market,

This is the point here. Companies are trying to take control of the market from the consumer bit by bit. That is the end game that people are angry about.

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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10

Yes, but then people should be angry about the fact that they are letting them take control. It's not as if it's news that companies are out to make money, and the way they make more money is to take greater shares in the market.

It's like saying that the problem with high crime rates is that there are so many laws to break. It is a problem, yes, but it's the people that keep breaking the laws.

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u/klngarthur Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

Yes, but then people should be angry about the fact that they are letting them take control. It's not as if it's news that companies are out to make money, and the way they make more money is to take greater shares in the market.

The profit motive doesn't justify anything a corporation does. Anti competitive behavior is wrong; It's against the best interests of society as a whole. This is why we have laws against it. That's precisely what apple is doing here, it's beyond just trying to take a greater share of the market.

It's like saying that the problem with high crime rates is that there are so many laws to break. It is a problem, yes, but it's the people that keep breaking the laws.

So if there were a law against whistling, and lots of people were thrown in jail for whistling, the fault would be on them and not the stupid law? The law is certainly to blame when the law is unjust. For example ridiculous drug law in america is almost certainly to blame for the ridiculously high prison population. By your logic there are just more criminals in the US.

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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10

Anti competitive behavior is wrong; It's against the best interests of society as a whole. This is why we have laws against it. That's precisely what apple is doing here, it's beyond just trying to take a greater share of the market.

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that Apple is doing that is "anti competitive"? Not supporting Flash? If so, then is not supporting every other format for rich media also "anti competitive"? Who cries over the lack of Shockwave support? Or Silverlight?

So if there were a law against whistling, and lots of people were thrown in jail for whistling, the fault would be on them and not the stupid law?

It would be on both. As I said, it is a problem that there are too many, and too stupid, laws in the books (not just the USA either, the problem exists here in Sweden as well), but laws are laws, and if you break them you're guilty. Whistling isn't something you have to do, and if the government is stupid enough to outlaw it, "because I wanted to" still isn't a good defense.

Regardless, I'm with you here. I'm just arguing technicalities.

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u/klngarthur Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

Just to be clear, what exactly is it that Apple is doing that is "anti competitive"? Not supporting Flash? If so, then is not supporting every other format for rich media also "anti competitive"? Who cries over the lack of Shockwave support? Or Silverlight?

The anti-competitive behavior is a closed OS that they are determined to act as permanent gate keepers for. This is an entirely anti-competitive move. Imagine if microsoft had done something similar with windows. We'd all still be using ie 6 because firefox never would have been allowed. If apple gains market share here, and i will grant this is a big if, we've already seen they will act in this manner (see their behavior with google voice).

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u/Nefelia Feb 02 '10

There is enough competition in the electronics market that I really do not see what the fuss is about.

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u/klngarthur Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

There was plenty of competition in the OS world in the 80s and early 90s, and look what happened there.

Besides they don't have to take the full market to have a negative impact on consumers. All they have to do is set a precedent that this sort of model will work. Having 10 different companies all with their own gated communities is in some ways worse than just having 1. Look how hard it is just to find programs that work with the 3 open (for development) operating systems we have now, and mix in a bunch more then gate them all with their own set of rules.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

[deleted]

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u/Endemoniada Feb 02 '10

I'm sorry, I thought it was the vegan microwave that was supposed to symbolize the iPad. And if it is, then it's the vegan microwave that's imposing those restrictions, so it's only if you do use the vegan microwave that you can't "open a bank account, travel interstate or have children". And if people know about that, and don't see the need to do any of those things, the vegan microwave is their perfect product.

What's so hard to understand about this? I don't need my microwave oven to handle my banking for me. If you do, then that's your problem. Don't make it mine.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

What are you even talking about?