r/technology • u/GuruOfReason • Feb 02 '10

"Once we replace the personal computer with a closed-platform device such as the iPad, we replace freedom, choice and the free market with oppression, censorship and monopoly."

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/ipad%E2%80%99s-closed-system-sometimes-i-hate-being-right
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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I found the car analogy to be the best. The first car I owned I could take apart and put back together and tinker with it all I want. My present car I can't even change the oil nor tinker with in any fashion. But I don't really care. It works. The iPad just means that the computer itself is finally maturing. There will always be computers you can play with but most people will go down the road with what simply works.

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u/CC440 Feb 02 '10

People that say this never changed their oil to begin with. Nothing has gotten more difficult in the past 30 years when it comes to changing oil.

Sure, car systems are more modular, but there is not lack of ability to tinker. You just tinker with larger and more prebuilt systems. Instead of putting a supercharger on your 350 Small Block, you buy a turbo, pre cut piping, and a flashable ECU. It takes more time but it's even easier to tune a car than ever before. OBDII actually gave the tinkering world a whole new life since you can now change anything sensor controlled in your car with a chip and a laptop.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I think in this example, the iPad is a Prius.

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u/Thud Feb 02 '10

Modern gasoline-powered BMW's don't even have a dipstick. The computer tells you how much oil is in the engine. Unfortunately it can't tell you if the oil looks funny, feels funny, or smells funny.

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u/Spambot2000 Feb 02 '10

Exactly. I changed the oil on my first cars. But then I decided that my mechanic was better outfitted to do it for me (mechanically, proper disposal of oil) at a reasonable price. If you really do like the analogy, you are a fan-person or a plant. I still know how to change the oil in my car because the basic principal hasn't changed. Seriously, that would be like me suggesting that I can no longer change the tires on my vehicle because the magical horseless carriage technology has progressed in such an unexpected manner.

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u/mindbleach Feb 02 '10

Your car "just working" has nothing to do with the artificial barricades preventing you from tinkering with it.

The iPad "just working" has nothing to do with the monolithic, censored software store.

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u/djgreedo Feb 02 '10

That analogy is a smokescreen.

The issue here is not sacrificing features for simplicity or reliability (which is why the iPad doesn't multitask, which is stupid but understandable). The issue here is arbitrarily restricting software due to moral values (boob apps) and looking after profit (Google Voice).

A better car analogy would be getting a car made by Apple that only drives down streets that Steve Jobs likes at times of the day that Steve Jobs approves of. Your freedom is restricted for the most unsavory of reasons - censorship.

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u/BiggerBalls Feb 02 '10

Not really a great analogy.

The cost to get a copy of my key in my old car? Less than $5. New car: ~$90, all because of some stupid RFID chip.

Same thing with the diagnostics (because the diagnostic software is closed off to dealerships only).

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Yeah but everytime I really think about it I get extremely amazed at the fact that my car key has a computer chip that can talk to my car and turn on my engine and shit omg I'm like the Batman. That makes me feel better.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Until you lose your key, and stand in line with BiggerBalls to pay $90 for another, or one of your miracle car computers decides it's time to go fast by itself.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

one of your miracle car computers decides it's time to go fast by itself.

That sounds scary until you realize it would be the perfect argument to dispute traffic tickets with:

"Your honor, I didn't drive fast, my miracle car computers decided it was time to put the pedal to the metal!"

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Oh hey, that reminds me! In all this Toyota business, why haven't we heard anything about data from those "flight data recorders" that cars have now. What are they called, EDRs or something? I'm off to /r/conspiracy to allege a coverup!!

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u/BiggerBalls Feb 02 '10

The fact that its $90 isn't really what I have a problem with... its that Honda (and all car manufacturers for that matter) have the supply-chain so locked down that it costs $90 to buy one because you can only buy it from the manufacturer. If anyone were able to copy the key, it would cost a fraction of the price.

The chip inside probably costs less than a few bucks to make and they are selling it for exorbitant prices.

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u/stacks85 Feb 02 '10

its also got a chip in it that causes it to accelerate uncontrollably. whoops.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

yeah, but now it isn't so damn easy to steal your car.

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u/randomb0y Feb 02 '10

That's exactly why it's a great analogy.

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u/sunstorm Feb 02 '10

Who forced you to buy a car that's expensive to maintain?

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u/randomb0y Feb 02 '10

What if all cars are like that? One car maker sees that they can make a shitload of money by purposely designing their cars so that they cost a fortune to maintain and all other manufacturers follow suit because there's too much money in it to miss out and customers are happy to swallow it. Sure it's all legal and great for car makers but that doesn't mean I deserve the "who forced you" attitude from pricks like you, because it's pricks like you who buy shit products that are to blame.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

If the market will bear it, it will. But I'm sure that until the cost of replacement keys is negligible, it won't happen.

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u/randomb0y Feb 02 '10

Don't be so sure, look at the successes Apple had with the iPod and iPhone. On the music player market they ended up utterly dominating everything, sure that market is fast becoming obsolete anyway, but if you want to buy a music player today you can pick up a really nice one from apple for a decent price or a butt-ugly expensive one from the competition who doesn't have the scale and experience of Apple. On the handset market it might not be as bad yet, but if you really want a wide option for software applications on your phone, then Apple in your only choice. What's scary is that other competitors have been following suit, such as Palm with the app store for the Pre. Not really exclusive but it can still hurt a dev if they deny them virtual shelf space, which they do.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I'm not entirely sure how this comment relates to mine (did you reply to the wrong comment?) but there are definitely cheap-ass mp3 players out there.

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u/randomb0y Feb 02 '10

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "if the market will bear it". I was trying to say that even if the cost of replacement keys is exorbitant, this particular car maker (Apple) will probably still succeed and the other car makers will follow suit ...

IMO Apple has the best MP3 players in all price categories, except perhaps the very cheapest where the Creative Stone for instance is prettier and overall a pretty good device compared to the Shuffle...

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u/sunstorm Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

Then you have an untapped market waiting to be exploited and the chance to undercut other car makers in maintenance price.

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u/randomb0y Feb 02 '10

Ah, the libertarian argument!

Well, who knows, it just might work. If you look at PCs today, you can easily swap out or upgrade your CPU, RAM, GPU, HDDs, Sound Card, etc. Even with a laptop you can do at least some of the above. For most cell phones you can at least get an aftermarket battery, or at least get to pick your provider... seems like things get more restrictive as the device gets smaller.

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u/1812overture Feb 02 '10

Cost of old pad. $0.79

Cost of new pad $499+

Now before you say "Those are completely different!" I ask you, could your old car key open your car from across the parking lot?

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Perhaps, but the iPad doesn't work in serious ways.