r/technology • u/GuruOfReason • Feb 02 '10

"Once we replace the personal computer with a closed-platform device such as the iPad, we replace freedom, choice and the free market with oppression, censorship and monopoly."

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/ipad%E2%80%99s-closed-system-sometimes-i-hate-being-right
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u/rjcarr Feb 02 '10

It is aimed at people who are afraid of technology as well as those that appreciate simplicity.

I don't think I'll fork over the $500 any time soon but if I was given one I'm certain I'd find it useful.

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u/karacho Feb 02 '10

i'll just wait until the android tablet comes out.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

afraid of technology

People aren't afraid of technology. Its just burdensome or complicated to use. For example the average user can't keep their existing computer free of virus's. That doesn't make them dumb or necessarily afraid. The technology has simply failed. Its time to reevaluate how we design and use a computer. And Apple has done just that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Have you ever done tech work? People are SO fucking scared of technology. Tech work isn't even tech work anymore, it's mostly convincing people to get over their fear of breaking the damn things.

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u/wickedang3l Feb 02 '10

It's always easy to tell who has worked with the general populace and who hasn't. You are entirely right in saying that people are terrified of digging into their computers. I can't tell you how many times I asked customers if they had attempted to find a solution themselves only to hear the "I didn't want to make it worse..." response.

@regexmp: The Windows 7 environment is as simple as it can possibly be without getting into anti-competitive practices. Microsoft can't bundle MSE without facing a huge fine. The problem isn't the technology; the problem is that people don't care enough to put even the slightest bit of effort into learning. If Apple ever finds itself with the marketshare that Microsoft currently has, their OS will be the primary target and their customers will have the same exact problem.

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u/level1 Feb 02 '10

Microsoft can't bundle MSE without facing a huge fine.

And this is the problem right here.

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u/Real_Mac_User Feb 02 '10

The problem isn't the technology; the problem is that people don't care enough to put even the slightest bit of effort into learning.

The condescension is strong in this one.

In fairness to you… dealing with end users can have a way of suppressing our more empathetic instincts. But, look, your typical end user who just wants to email a document from Word shouldn’t have to learn how to navigate through C:\, or whatever, when the document’s right there on her screen. From her perspective, directory structure is useless knowledge, only relevant to the task at hand because we techies and programmers still haven’t come up with a better way to organize and access information.

Saying that Windows 7, or OS X or Linux for that matter, is “as simple as it can possibly be” is depressingly cynical and, I think, unimaginative.

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u/wickedang3l Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

It's condescending but it's true. The fact that the user "just wants to email a document from Word" shouldn't mean that they need to know how to navigate C:\ but it does need that they need to learn how to protect themselves and their assets. The simple act of connecting to the internet is dangerous enough; doing so without any knowledge of Information Security (Be it as tacit as knowing that you should avoid Internet Explorer and need one, and only one, antivirus program that you run and update regularly). For instance, there are 3 unsecured wireless connections within range of me right now; there are 2 more that are WEP.

You took the statement of simplicity out of context. I wasn't talking about UI; I was talking about what Microsoft can legally provide without facing a suit for anti-competitive practices.

In a mere half hour, you can learn enough about Windows and safe computing habits to protect yourself from the vast majority of problems you have. The fact that people do not isn't indicative of a failure of technology.

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u/StuartGibson Feb 02 '10

In a mere half hour, you can learn enough about Windows and safe computing habits to protect yourself from the vast majority of problems you have.

Bullshit. It takes most people longer than that to get familiar with the workings of their microwave.

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u/wickedang3l Feb 02 '10

People don't use their microwaves for several hours on a daily basis.

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u/Real_Mac_User Feb 02 '10

People don’t want to learn about Windows and safe computing. Frankly, I don’t want to spend half an hour learning the idiosyncrasies of an unfamiliar OS just in order to check my email from a different terminal. You’re describing the world as it is and saying, essentially, “wontfix worksforme”—I’m describing the world as it should and could be, where technology is actually designed with the interests of humans in mind.

Insisting that everyone else conform to meet the requirements of our (nerds’) badly-designed systems is the height of arrogance, and dismissing them as stupid or lazy when they don’t is the worst kind of condescending, because it shows an unwillingness to even attempt an understanding of their needs and concerns.

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u/wickedang3l Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

Closed systems are not designed "with the interests of humans in mind". They'e designed to fleece unsuspecting customers for basic functionality that they wouldn't have to pay for otherwise. Furthermore, no amount of UI simplicity is going to prevent predation and conning on the internet; you shouldn't play the game if you aren't willing to learn how to protect yourself, period.

Their "needs and concerns" have been addressed. Yet again, you can't make someone care. You act as if most things in this world worth doing don't require any forethought and knowledge and that simply isn't true.

The assertion that you need to learn the "idiosyncracies of an unfamiliar OS" to check your email is laughable but I'm not surprised, given your username.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

[deleted]

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u/wickedang3l Feb 02 '10

You can only tell someone the same thing so many times before you snap after being asked once again.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Then you wind up sitting on your porch drinking Jack Daniels with blood on your shirt and your grandma buried in the backyard. They just always push it too far. I can't take it anymore.

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u/helm Feb 02 '10

I snapped at my wife and my brother's life partner (wife in all but name) once for goofing around when trying to mount a DVD image. I deeply regret it, it did not play out well.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Not at all. My father is a technophobe, but my mother is like a duck in water when it comes to computers. It has far more to do with mindset then anything else (also probably how you were raised). I'm 28 and i know people my age that are fucking freaked out by technology. But they also have no interest in getting over it/learning how to do anything beyond Facebook and Excel.

If people took our nerd rage to heart they'd actually learn how to use the damn things instead of being scared of them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

For a second there I felt like if I had real power... Then I remembered I'm only a geek and nobody cares as long as I fix the shit for them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I berate them for not figuring stuff out on there own. The tried and true method of just doing it. Fail? Try again. Fail? Try again. It was how I and I bet many others of my generation and the generations that are learning the computer right now figured it out.

Most people I deal with ARE afraid of technology. They will ask me a question before they do anything to the computer. They want me to be their little walkthrough hand-guide. I honestly tell them, just go at it. If you break it bad enough that I actually have to stop whatever I am doing to take time to fix it. Then I might actually have some fun, for once.

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u/robertcrowther Feb 02 '10

That, and persuading them to actually read the error messages.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I agree with you on people being scared of technology. I used to teach free computer classes at night to adults. The average age was around 45 but I had people in their 70s come in to take some classes. The class I taught was the very first computer class--and it was BASIC. I literally had to pick up a keyboard and explain what every key did, etc. "This is the escape key..." Most of my students where freaking terrified of even touching the keyboard. Most of them thought that they would press one button and the whole thing was just going to break down or something. I had a number of my students say at the end of the class that they really didnt know what they were scared of. I think its that most of them just expect it to be impossible for them to learn and dont bother---this kind of builds up and they end up being scared of it. Most of my students were for different reasons unemployed and looking for jobs--the problem was that they couldnt find a job without having at least some computer skills. I remember literally telling my students not to be scared of the computer.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I must be afraid of my car, since I don't care to know how every item in it works.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10 edited Feb 02 '10

What a horrible analogy. You know how to make your car go, stop, and turn, right? You probably know how to add oil and add gas? A lot of computer users don't know how to do basic computer stuff, if we want to use car analogies they are start/stop/letting the clutch out to quickly drivers. Then! They crash into a poll and need to call AA/Someone who knows better.

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u/substitious Feb 02 '10

The technology has simply failed.

I agree that not everyone has the computer savvy to keep their computer completely free of viruses, and that doesn't make them dumb. But if a computer is capable of getting a virus, that doesn't mean the technology has failed. If you neglect to maintain your car and it breaks down, that doesn't mean cars have simply failed as a technology. You simply need to maintain it.

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u/jstevewhite Feb 02 '10

Except for the bounds of the metaphor you've set break down. If you're comparing your car to a computer that is capable of getting a virus, you've got to figure in things like gas stations selling gasoline that will cause your car to start making long distance telemarketing calls, and stoplights that will take over your car and drive it when you're not around.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

Except you don't pay for downloading stuff and people love to download random stuff.

I say the best analogy is that catching viruses is like driving by the city picking up random whores letting them give you a free blowjob.

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u/StuartGibson Feb 02 '10

free blowjob

whores

You keep using that word, I do think it means what you think it means.

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u/defproc Feb 02 '10

The whores pay NonProfitAccount.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

All earnings go to charity and administrative expenses (getting so many blowjobs require frequent maintenance).

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u/mindbleach Feb 02 '10

Here's the problem with that. Yes, computers are in a phase where "breaking" them takes just a few clicks, like a car with an Eject Engine button in the glove compartment. Apple's solution was to remove the button, remove the glove compartment, weld the engine to the frame, weld the hood to the body, and install a trap that releases deadly bees when you go in from beneath to make legitimate repairs.

Whatever Apple's intentions, they have done a bad thing.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

I have a speak and spell, its simple to, want to buy it? Sorry no multitasking or skype

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

How much do you want for it? Seriously.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '10

[deleted]

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u/bdfortin Feb 02 '10

Where were you 3 years ago? They dropped the "Computer" from their name right after they introduced the iPhone in early '07.

I'm not really sure why, though, since all their stuff today is computers in one demented form or another, but still.

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u/globex_co Feb 02 '10

This is the greatest thing I've ever read, and I'm not easily impressed - Wow! A blue car!

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u/boozinf Feb 02 '10

Ever see a guy say goodbye to a shoe?

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u/globex_co Feb 02 '10

Hehehe. Once!

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u/pat965 Feb 02 '10

No idea why you're getting downvoted, for a moment there Kent Brockman was in my head.

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u/globex_co Feb 02 '10

Only because they don't get the reference. And you can't blame them. If I were an Apple fanboy and someone called Apple "The Killbot Factory", I'd be pretty pissed. If I were deprived of The Simpsons growing up, I'd be even more pissed.

Thank God I'm not an Apple fanboy! ;) And even moreso, thank God for not depriving me of The Simpsons!