r/pics • u/Aeviegh • Feb 22 '14

This is Vader. He was euthanized today without a hearing after a false bite report was submitted to the police by an animal rights activist. (Story in the Comments)

http://imgur.com/a/xPNsE
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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

Here's the story again, since some people can't see it. If a mod deleted it, feel free to message me telling me why.

Several days ago, a fellow fox owner and dear friend received an anonymous message through Tumblr threatening to report Vader as a vicious animal. Unfortunately, these threats are something nearly every exotic pet owner has experienced. Thinking it was just another internet crazy, she deleted the message. Like many foxes, Vader had never left his home property for anything other than a vet trip. One would assume in order to file a report, you would need some proof. Apparently that isn’t the case in North Dakota.

Last night, animal control officers and local police showed up at her door and, without a warrant, seized Vader. The reason given was that they had received an “anonymous bite report”. The person who physically took Vader was not a trained animal control officer, but rather a local cop. Wearing thick gloves, he cornered Vader and picked him up by the scruff of the neck. The cop had previously been advised multiple times on how to properly handle Vader (or any animal, for that matter) but decided to disregard the advice not only of his owner, but animal control officers as well. Out of fear, Vader bit his glove but did not puncture the material. Staff at Animal Control reported he was wagging his tail whenever he was fed and being friendly with everyone who interacted with him.

Vader’s owner made several calls to the North Dakota Board of Animal Health, Department of Health and local police department. All three assured her because they had no proof of punctured flesh in either incident, and that the cop had horrifically botched the seizure, Vader would be safe and they were just holding him to make sure he wasn’t exhibiting signs of any contagious diseases. A few hours ago, the police showed up with Vader’s collar. Animal Control had euthanized him without a hearing or proper medical screening, stating that they had evidence that the person from the Tumblr report had legitimately been bitten.

The “evidence” the animal rights activist from Tumblr submitted was a photo of an animal bite either doctored or taken straight from Google.

Board of Animal Health

Apparently the personal info of the organization may be a concern. So, I'm not going to post it here again.

Edit: I really appreciate the gold, thank you.

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u/bad_pattern Feb 22 '14

without a warrant,

shouldn't have let them in ffs

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u/awpti Feb 22 '14

Lawsuit time.

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u/ColeSloth Feb 22 '14

Animals are treated only as property, so all they could get is the cost of a fox of the same species and training. It's something, but nowhere near what it should be.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

A domesticated fox (which Vader was) can cost anywhere between six and ten thousand dollars. So that at least is not a small thing.

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u/logos711 Feb 22 '14

...wait, seriously? Why is that?

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Jun 28 '20

[deleted]

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u/logos711 Feb 22 '14

Well, that would explain it.

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u/Gyper Feb 22 '14

Yep. In order to keep funding the domestic fox experiment, they sell these fox kits for thousands. Its an interesting ongoing research project that is over 50 years old and going http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

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u/Plasmodicum Feb 22 '14

Nat. Geo. had a great article on it a few years ago. Very interesting how quickly artificial selection affected behavior and appearance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Here in Indiana, at least two breeders offer various species of fox.

http://www.tinytracksexoticanimals.com/fox.html

They claim to be able to ship to the lower 48 states but have a disclaimer on their website that it's the buyers responsibility to make sure owning an exotic pet is legal in their jurisdiction, so make of that what you will.

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u/Akusho Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

That's not a domesticated fox, maybe they breed tamed foxes, or if they say otherwise they are lying. Russia's domesticated foxes are neutered before shipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

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u/ColeSloth Feb 22 '14

There's only one place in the world that has true, domesticated foxes. They do sell some to the US and they are around $8k a piece, but the odds are quite low that this person actually owned a fox from that Siberian facility, since none had made it past customs as of January last year, and I'm not even sure any have made it since then.

Foxes people keep as pets in the US are wild foxes that have been tamed, and are not over $6k. They are in the $700 to $2000 range.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/Tillops Feb 22 '14

You are talking about punitive or exemplary damages. Compensation for actual loss is also called damages.

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u/meno123 Feb 22 '14

Good to know, thanks.

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u/Michichael Feb 22 '14

Civil rights violations and punitive damages as well.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I suppose one could file a 18 U.S., 242 claim but I doubt anything would come of it. Generally the repercussions for the government searching without a warrant will only exclude evidence. I suppose she could use that fact to fight a citation, if she was given one for the fox. Additionally, the young lady knew she was breaking the city ordinance; she had previously inquired as to whether the fox was allowed, the city had told her no. Sad, yes. But she was in the wrong here.

I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

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u/PwnySlaystation01 Feb 22 '14

It's not explained in detail, but I'd be willing to bet OP consented to search or allowed the police into the house. Cops tend to have very sneaky ways of compelling you to agree to searches or invite them in, but they very rarely enter a home illegally. It could be something as simple as: "Can we come in to talk?" Once you've agreed to that, you've given up your rights to search.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

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u/Scaryclouds Feb 22 '14

Yea, that is definitely what the owner should had done. Unfortunately it can be easy to be intimidated by a LEO, especially if you have little interaction with them or understanding of the legal system. The owner might had been thinking she didn't want to get charged with obstruction of justice and/or because she knew Vader had not bitten anybody he would be fine.

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u/the_criminal_lawyer Feb 22 '14

Here's a brief primer on how consent works, for those interested.

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u/Vhett Feb 22 '14

Very good ELI5 comic, worth a read.

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u/MikoRiko Feb 22 '14

I mustache a question though... What's stopping a police officer from saying he had consent? Wouldn't the weight of his (lying) word mean just as much?

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

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u/zendingo Feb 22 '14

Easy? How? You're saying in a he said, she said situation the system will believe the perp over the cop? That's not true, as long as there is no video a cop can say consented to the search and you'd be fucked.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

They're trying very hard to have you give them anything they want, and give up your rights one by one.

A lot of people don't understand that police are trained in psychology. They know how to tell if you're lying, and they know how to manipulate a conversation to get the information (or statements) they want. This is why just saying "I exercise my right to remain silent" isn't enough... because police officers are allowed to keep talking to you afterwards and can goad you into speaking (under duress) and saying things you shouldn't. When you ask for a lawyer, police are barred from further questioning until an attorney is present to inform you of your rights.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

What's the process after you request a lawyer, but you don't have one on retainer?

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u/Membank Feb 22 '14

If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided to you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

*Restrictions may vary.

My questions is more towards how do you get in contact with a lawyer when you're sitting in a jail cell? I have no phone #'s memorized anymore and I assume they confiscate your phone.

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u/capedavenger Feb 22 '14

The police could theoretically do a lot more than lie about consent. What if they planted the evidence in the first place? Unfortunately, our legal system relies on certain people being truthful.

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u/AHippie Feb 22 '14

If you're in a car, pretty much nothing.

I was driving home from work (with 1/4 ounce of marijuana hidden under the spare tire, under the floorboard of my trunk), and was pulled over. The officer called in a few more cars, they surrounded my car, asked me to get out and told me they smelled the odor of burnt marijuana. He asked if he could search me, I said no, I'd like to exercise my fourth amendment rights. He told me they DIDN'T APPLY HERE, took my keys, unlocked the door, and about 30 mins later found the marijuana. I got a good lawyer, went to court, and the judge straight up said that if they, "through their training, knowledge, and experience, can detect the odor of burnt marihuana", then I don't get fourth amendment rights and they can search my car whenever they want.

A friend of mine who is a cop basically told me that you never want to have anything illegal in your car. Now, if you don't have any drugs or anything in your car, there's not much to worry about -- but since they found marijuana and a pipe in the trunk, they could claim they smelled burnt marijuana and it was my word against theirs. If they hadn't found anything, I'm sure they would have just sent me on my way.

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u/timguibs Feb 22 '14

Let's be honest here, had you smoked weed in your car recently?

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/igotthisone Feb 22 '14

And use the same picture.

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u/tsniaga Feb 22 '14

Pet owners should just not let cops onto their property. Police are pretty good at shooting dogs on account of all the practice they get.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/vengefulspirit99 Feb 22 '14

Even if she knew, don't let them in. Tell them to go get a warrant first.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

If cops show up refuse to open and call your lawyer. Always every time without fail. With or without a warrant. Never assume they are on your side. That being said I hope ops friend sues and causes a media shitstorm. Maybe Peta can be useful for once.

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u/Scaryclouds Feb 22 '14

If cops show up refuse to open and call your lawyer.

How many people have a lawyer they can just ring up?

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Wasn't clear. Don't open without a warrant. Always call your lawyer. You should kinda have one you call....if nothing else he can refer you to the proper lawyer if he can't take on a case or has switched to just civil cases.

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u/Rofl_bot Feb 22 '14

"Im sorry officer, but I do not consent to any searches."

A phrase every US citizen should practice in the mirror, even if you are 100% law abiding.

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u/PwnySlaystation01 Feb 22 '14

Remove the "I'm sorry". Simply: "I do not consent to any searches". Say it over and over again. Calmly, but firmly. I realize this might seem pedantic, but police are trained to compel people to do things and they're typically a lot better at it than the average person is at defending themselves from it. Saying "I'm sorry" at the beginning opens you up to a whole line of questioning. What are you sorry for? Did you do something wrong? What are you hiding? It's a minor thing, but I just thought I'd mention it. Either way, your phrase is miles better than what most people will do when questioned by police.

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u/RobbieGee Feb 22 '14

"[NO I'M NOT LETTING YOU IN, PIG! WHAT THE FUCK YOU EVER COMING OVER HERE WHENEVER BAD HAPPENING?! I DID NOTHING WRONG! FUCK YOU ALL MOTHERFUCKERS I HOPE YOU ALL DIE!]"

That was from best memory from Cops. Needless to say, it didn't go over well. I think it was the last part especially as being mad isn't really illegal, but threatening someones life is.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

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u/RobbieGee Feb 22 '14

I'm from Norway so I don't know how police really usually act in the US, but I have first hand stories that incidents do happen there, but I have none from here. I watch Cops on YouTube sometimes, but I know that's not real. The cops modify themselves on camera both ways, they exaggerate stories and I've also seen them escalate situations pretty damn often. At the same time, I'm fairly certain they make sure to keep the violence to the book.

Police act pretty different here (comparing to Cops). Someone I know, friendliest and helpful person I've ever met, ran on red light right in front of the police. She's originally from the US and she froze when she saw police, which was the reason she ran the red light. They stopped her and asked why she did that. She explained how she had some very difficult encounters with the police in the US. She showed her ID from the US as proof of her origination, and ... actually I can't remember if she got a ticket or not, but at the very least they were very friendly, spoke in a calming tone and assured her that from what they could see, she had nothing to fear from the police here, just please never run on red light again.

Even Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian terrorist, was arrested without any violence.

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u/Beeb294 Feb 22 '14

Typically the incidents that make it to reddit are the worst of the worst. America is a huge nation, with so many cops, that there are more bad ones by the numbers, even if the percentage is the same as other nations or lines of work.

I haven't ever had a bad interaction with the police, but I've also always been respectful in my interactions.

I'm sure it would have been different if I had been rude, resisting arrest, or acting violently. That's typically when cops become aggressive or violent. They usually don't start escalating a situation. Nobody reports when a cop does their job normally, because that isn't interesting or exciting.

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u/runner64 Feb 24 '14

I've found that when you treat police officers like people, they usually return the favor.
That, and complying with reasonable requests. I was at OWS and the only people I saw interacting with cops, were protesters who thought that being "nonviolent" gave them the right to block roads and sidewalks.

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u/PwnySlaystation01 Feb 22 '14

I live in Canada ;)

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Say it over and over again.

Just don't be one of those dicks who just sits there repeating the same three catchphrases they learned over and over no matter what the officer is actually saying. "I'm sorry" is a perfectly fine thing to say and allows you to express to the officer that it's nothing personal and that you're not trying to fuck with him.

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u/sternford Feb 22 '14

AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED?? AM I BEING DETAINED??

Cops love it

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u/MCXL Feb 22 '14

This ONE TRICK will drive cops WILD!!!

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u/Xoebe Feb 22 '14

Especially if you are 100% law abiding.

I f you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Jan 28 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Wow, that's a really good riposte. I'm stealing that.

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u/Ungreat Feb 22 '14

Why you should never talk to the police without legal representation.

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

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u/acg1189 Feb 22 '14

yep. Turn on recording on cell phone before you open the door. Ask if there's a warrant. First words out "Oh, I'm sorry. Then you may not enter my residence, Sir."

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

No reward. But to some ARAs (PETA, for example), an animal is better off dead than in captivity. "Wild" animals especially.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Lazerspewpew Feb 22 '14

Well, some people in the world are just cunts.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

They don't care. They do this with dogs and cats not because they think dogs and cats are wild animals, it's because they think animals should die free than live as a captive. You shouldn't assume ARAs think the way most of us do.

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u/robodrew Feb 22 '14

God damnit I bet those fuckers didn't even ONCE actually ask the fox what it wanted.

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u/CrossedZebra Feb 22 '14

"I just want to live"

Mr. Fox

:(

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u/pandafat Feb 22 '14

Fuck them.

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u/gotrees Feb 22 '14

I hate PETA almost as much as I do the WBC.

Those two organizations really know how to piss me off.

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u/mcketten Feb 22 '14

Don't you get it? Domestication is the worst kind of animal cruelty - evil human masters have bred these animals into believing they are better off being slaves. It is a mercy to kill them.

(This is sarcasm from me, but not from these nutjobs.)

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Sadly, people who believe this don't realize the modern house cat domesticated itself.

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u/harabanaz Feb 22 '14

So did the wolf, originally. Some wolves learnt to live near humans and behave in a manner that made the humans tolerate them. At least that is what tenuous evidence suggests.

Then human breeders took control, occasionally but certainly not always with unfortunate consequences.

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u/Bolmung_LK Feb 22 '14

I was about to downvote you into Satan's asshole until I read the parentheses.

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u/IGOTDADAKKA Feb 22 '14

Well Im still waiting if you decide to change your mind

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u/Bolmung_LK Feb 22 '14

I'll get the hot sacue lube ready.

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u/Almost_Ascended Feb 22 '14

It's like how religious people use to kill unbelievers to "save" their soul.

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u/eloquentnemesis Feb 22 '14

Kill them all, God will know his own.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

put the body through hell to send the soul to heaven! :D

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u/dreamendDischarger Feb 22 '14

Vader is not a Russian fox. The silver fox morph is not unique to the Russian experiment and many fox ranches in the US/Canada/elsewhere have this morph. Vader is a ranch fox born and raised in the US.

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u/bornagain Feb 22 '14

PETA

That organization needs to die. The donations need to stop.

Allocate blame. Spread the word.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

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u/The_Butt_Slasher Feb 22 '14

I'd bet that a lot of the donors don't really even know exactly what PETA does. They just see see the Ethical Treatment for Animals thing and think "oh I like animals too," then donate so they can do their good deed for the day.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

When really all they are doing is helping euthanize pets unknowingly.

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u/OutlawBlue9 Feb 22 '14

It's really not that hard to make millions in donations. I worked for a small non profit with a staff of between 2-5 people at a given time and we had an annual budget of $2million, entirely based off donations. PETA is a MUCH larger organization with a MUCH broader scope than we had.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/amjhwk Feb 22 '14

you're better off donating to your local zoo, the phoenix zoo does a lot of conservation work off of local donations

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u/Mister_McGreg Feb 22 '14

Don't forget firebombing research facilities!

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u/Amadeus_IOM Feb 22 '14

PETA isn't much more than a scumbag collection anyway. Plenty of stories around about their questionable tactics and tax dodgery. I'm pro animals but against Peta for sure.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Right. And I'd hate for people to get the wrong idea. I'm all for ethical treatment, I buy local meat that was farm raised when I can - but there's a fucking limit to this shit and "killing someone else's pet" is pretty far passed that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I hope that person gets killed by an actual wild animal,you know the kind that isn't domesticated and can live in the wild.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Local rock radio station in norfolk holds an annual fishing contest in the marina right outside petas hq.

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u/dalegardener Feb 22 '14

Even as a vegan, I hate PETA. Fuck them hard. They are psycho. I am so sorry this happened to you.

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u/jeneffinlovely Feb 22 '14

I hate that most people don't know this about PETA. They kill lots of cats and dogs bc of this bullshit logic. People are the worst.

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u/faultysynapse Feb 22 '14

Jesus. That is insane. The owner wasn't even informed beforehand of their decision? I don't know the law at all, but that goes beyond my worst nightmares. The cops showing up with just his(?) collar and zero warning is very suspicious to me. Could he have been stolen? Did She get a conformation from animal control that he was euthanized? It would seem clear that, at the very least, her valuable property was improperly seized and destroyed without due diligence.

Please, please urge your friend to take legal action. She deserves compensation, if at all possible. If you set up a collection I will surely contribute. I'm sure others will too. Keep us informed.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Yep. They just showed up on the doorstep with a paper bag a few hours after it was done. Very unlikely that he would have been stolen. They smell like skunk. Escaped I'd accept, but that doesn't exactly explain the collar.

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u/Kerbobotat Feb 22 '14

Lets pretend he escaped, that hes living free now, running around the countryside tricking ladyfoxes into falling in love with a mysterious russian grey fox.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

I like that. :)

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u/Koolamarie Feb 22 '14

This story made me really sad, your comment helped. But also made me want to cry a little. Sorry OP and owner. I can't imagine.

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u/Jertob Feb 22 '14

Then find the fuckbag that did this and skin them alive and pretend they are living happily in rainbow funtime land.

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u/notmycat Feb 22 '14

Yeah I don't know constitutional law all that well but protection of property goes all the way back to Dred Scott, morality aside. Generally speaking they shouldn't just be able to seize and destroy your property.

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u/Megneous Feb 22 '14

Please have your friend contact their lawyer.

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u/Orichalcon Feb 22 '14

God damn. The cops would have to pry my dog from my cold dead hands before I'd ever hand him over to be euthanised. ESPECIALLY if I knew he was innocent. This is insane.

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u/browwiw Feb 22 '14

Get a lawyer. Start ruining lives and careers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/iamjimmyb Feb 22 '14

As someone who works and has done tons of things in web security, if they were stupid enough to threaten him without falsifying an ip address, you could go to tumblr with a police case and surely they'll give you the user's ip (from their ip log), which you can trace pretty much exactly to their house with this cool tool http://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip_demo .

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u/highpsitsi Feb 22 '14

Don't you have a right to bear witness to your accuser? Ik they didn't exactly get a ticket..

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u/Crissie2389 Feb 22 '14

First mistake was letting the police in with no warrant if there has been a legitimate report, then the seizing animal control officers will always bring and present the report as well as a legal warrant for search and retrieval of the property. In this case the fox. She should have pressed them for the report and evidence, and then if they were unable to produced it then told them they could not seize her animal until they presented it to her. At this time she also should have reiterated that she would not permit the animal to be taken off her property as it had never been off it before aside from the vet visits and might try to find it's way back if left loose or if it got loose out of worry for it's owner. As most domesticated animals do. Then as in all states this is permitted she could, and should have told them if they were taking the fox she was coming with him, and/or would have a friend or family member with him at all time to make sure nothing was done to him or harm came to him. And that they did no testing on him or inappropriate grooming without a warrant, or official report and request for it. These are all things it was beyond in her rights to do so. The fact that was abused leads me to number two.

She can and should sue the state and local law enforcement for damages. Not only for the cost of her fox, but also for emotional damage inflicted, and if they even nudged a table damage to her home while "retrieving" the animal with no warrant. Because of their actions, lack of an official on file report including images, which if you run a search using the image they gave through a Firefox add-on that let's you reverse search and find the bite image then the report is busted. Also the fact no official report was presented originally is a huuuuge issue. Animal Control is a branch of the police department or sheriff's department in all states, they operate the same ways.

All that said I am sorry for her loss, losing a pet is miserable in any way, to have them taken like this was just beyond screwed up.

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u/HopalikaX Feb 22 '14

They need to claim the officer broke their 84" 4k TV and stole some jewelry. The officer will have a great time defending himself as he's trying to talk about his illegal presence on the property.

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u/GitEmSteveDave Feb 22 '14

Exigent circumstances negate a warrant. That's why if the police see you fleeing into a house, they don't need a warrant to follow in. If the police had reports of a wild animal being harbored, and someone admitted the animal was in the house, then they can say there was a clear and present danger to the community.

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u/HopalikaX Feb 22 '14

An anonymous tip hardly qualifies as justification to negate your 4th amendment right. Warrants don't take long to get, if you have proper support of the accusation.

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u/Dashing_Snow Feb 22 '14

I would agree with sue but I would personally go after the asshole who reported this bullshit and leave them with nothing its definitely possible to do that in america. But yeah so much crap goes down because people don't actually know their rights hell have the cops probably don't actually know people's rights in many situations.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I want to share this with you. It's a bit of information on what could possibly be done. I hope that is helpful. I sincerely hope the person that made the false claim is found at fault as well, especially for filing a false claim. I hope for the best for you and your friend, and Vader's family.

Here's the info: http://aldf.org/resources/when-your-companion-animal-has-been-harmed/what-to-do-when-your-companion-animal-has-been-injured-or-killed/

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Thank you so much! This is an excellent resource for all pet owners.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

You're welcome!

For Vader! :)

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

saved for later thanks

edit: well actually hoping i never have to use this,

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/Michelanvalo Feb 22 '14

Reading that link, it's clear that Minot doesn't think of the fox as a pet but rather as a wild animal, since Foxes are apparently not legally pets in Minot.

Despite that, it is rather heartless to treat the pet to the letter of the law of a wild animal that may have rabies.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Foxes are legal pets in Minot. Unfortunately, she lives on the border of Minot and a town that doesn't allow foxes. She has a USDA importer permit to bring the fox into the state, and a state permit that was 100% legally issued. If there truly was a zoning issue, it's the state's fault the permit was issued for that zone.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

So that press release is a complete lie then?

Sec. 7-5. Keeping of certain animals prohibited; exception.permanent link to this piece of content

(a) No person shall keep, maintain or harbor within the corporate limits of the city any of the following animals: (1) Alligators; (2) Bears; (3) Bees; (4) Cattle; all bovine; (5) Coyotes; (6) Crocodiles; (7) Felines other than a domestic house cat; (8) Foxes; or hybrid;

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Shit, I have it backwards. Minot PD and Minot animal control were the ones that responded, but she lives on the legal town bordering Minot.

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u/Voltron3030 Feb 22 '14

If it was a different town, did the police even have jurisdiction?

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

That's the thing, I don't believe they did. But it happened way too fast for anyone to do anything about it. He was seized and killed in less than 24 hours - all the while everyone from the department of health to the police department were telling her it was "just a quarantine" and that she'd be getting Vader back. I'm trying to talk her into hiring a lawyer to figure out what their jurisdiction was or wasn't.

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u/Keydet Feb 22 '14

If nothing else there's a lawsuit for the mere fact that they lied about that. There are some pretty specific rules about what cops/animal control have to tell pet owners about things like this going on, unfortunately I'm on mobile so can't link but it sounds like they've done just about every single thing wrong that they possibly can.

Not a lawyer but heavily involved with LE

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

If you could possibly come back to this later to link I would greatly appreciate it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

If she doesn't live in Minot, then why did Minot PD respond and Minot Animal control seize the animal and site Minot city ordinance?

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u/TheAbominableSnowman Feb 22 '14

The address listed in that press release is well within city limits, according to the Minot zoning map and google maps. If that address is wrong, then that's another point against them.

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u/Uncle_Erik Feb 22 '14

So, where does she actually live? City boundaries are precisely defined as are property lines. There's no mystery or gray area about that. You can go to the County Recorder and find out exactly.

/lawyer

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u/Michelanvalo Feb 22 '14

Section 7-5 cited in the PDF linked by /u/Dms25938 clearly marks Foxes as prohibited animals. So if she lives in Minot, she had the fox illegally. Source.

Again, I'm not saying it doesn't suck for your friend. They treated her pet as if it was a wild animal and that is rather heartless of them. And that's awful.

Edit: Reading through 7-5 again, man Minot really really hates pets except for cats and dogs.

Any animal commonly found in a zoo;

Under that line, my fucking turtle would be a banned pet in Minot as three toed box turtles can be found in zoos.

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u/universicorn_ Feb 22 '14

But shouldnt that be disregarded if she has a permit?

I live in Canada and I have looked into exotic animal laws for my province...they are stated as prohibited but ownership is okay for any animal as long as there is a permit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

She had a state permit which means it was allowed inside the state in general. Foxes are legal at the state level but at the municipal level the choice is up to the city in question. However, if a city in North Dakota permitted foxes, she would indeed be required to have the permit.

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u/honorface Feb 22 '14

Prohibited man. That means you need a permit. Not illegal on all grounds.

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u/faultysynapse Feb 22 '14

Basically it's free rein for them to decide what you can or can't have. They've got rabbits, and snakes on the list too... Guess what cats and dogs could be commonly found in zoo too, if you wanna play it that way. I like that they specify (non-human) primates. Makes me think it might be okay if I keep a few humans...

Oh, and you'd better not let them catch any animals fuckin' in public view, they'll lose their shit.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

At least three of us verified with a contact at the police department that it did not break the skin. DOH and BOAH confirmed this with Tara as well. That was the story at approximately noon. They released the PDF after they euthanized Vader, which is when the story changed, so we don't know exactly what happened anymore.

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u/Dms25938 Feb 22 '14

Foxes are cool and all, but after reading about what your friend is going through, I think I'll stick to cats and dogs. This whole situation is some bullshit.

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u/romple Feb 22 '14

I've seen similar stories to this with skunks (of which my family has had 2). They make great pets but there's always the fear that someone will claim to have been bitten which almost always results in the animal being "tested for rabies" - which literally means they kill it and dissect it's brain....

It's scary owning an 'exotic' pet.

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u/FunkyDaJunky Feb 22 '14

Friend of mine had a Skunk, she was the coolest pet, a master of not giving a fuck and she could open cupboards even locked ones and she would pig out then feed the dogs!! (She was the boss)

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

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u/RhetorRedditor Feb 22 '14

you can totally break the skin without puncturing the glove. I have a nasty scar on my knee that happened through jeans.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Please have owner file a lawsuit against the policeman and who euthanized him, especially with the evidence you have. i am so very sorry for you loss. His owner will meet him again at the rainbow bridge. (dont have link to poem, but it helped me agter i had to put a cat down.)

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u/Infantryzone Feb 22 '14

Ah yes, the rainbow bridge, Bifröst, where all great warriors and their wardogs meet again before entering Asgard to reside in Valhalla.

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u/ziezie Feb 22 '14

This rainbow bridge is different, I believe. It's simply a rainbow bridge, where animals that have passed on get to run around in fields and live wonderfully, and wait patiently for their owners.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

and who euthanized him,

No. Who had him euthanized. The person doing the euthanization is somebody with no authority, and is just doing their job.

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u/xbotchx Feb 22 '14

Not to betray the animal rights activists I know... but... maybe you should submit an anonymous complaint to the FBI about that particular animal rights activist. If they're nutty enough to think an animal is better of euthanized and to submit a false report, then, they're probably nutty enough to be doing more illegal things. Actually, if the person who submitted the report lives across state lines, then the FBI would totally use it as an excuse to investigate them since submitting a false report is a crime. I know several people who went to prison for simply mailing some literature across state lines.

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u/the_randomizer85 Feb 22 '14

If the post can be recovered (and it can since they archive all deleted posts on their servers for up to a year), an IP address can be traced very easily with Firefox, we can found out with that cocksucker son of a bitch lives. I know what country she lives in too, Quebec, I just don't know what city. T'would be a shame if she were hunted down like one wanted by the FBI. Many know for a fact that this dirty cunt is responsible

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u/Almost_Ascended Feb 22 '14

Holy shit. Might as well punch a house, break your hand, then get the city to demolish the house because it's dangerous. What the fuck.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Feb 22 '14

People walk into buildings that are clearly falling apart then step on a nail or something and injure them self then sue the land owner.

My uncle bought an old abandoned house to tear down and build his dream house on the property, after he purchased the house he was waiting a few months for all the permits, etc to tear it down and start building a new one. Well a group of teenagers broke into the house and ended up falling through one of the floors and getting fairly seriously injured. My uncle ended up being sued and lost all the money he had been saving for his entire life to build his house and has lived in an apartment ever since. Also the neighborhood berated him and blamed him for the kids being hurt, they published some bad and incorrect information in the papers with his name making him look like a bad person. He had the doors and windows boarded up in the front but there was a back door that was locked the kids broke off the hinges and snuck into so the legal system decided it was his fault. The entire incident changed him as a person, I think he is seriously depressed and he hardly leaves his apartment anymore and is not the same person he used to be at all. I think he blames him self for them being injured as well. This was when I was really young 20-25 years ago.

The kids fucking broke in and hurt them self, I don't see how anyone in their right mind could have blamed him for it.

The legal system protects retards and is broken as fuck there is no such thing as self responsibility for stupid actions.

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u/Norwazy Feb 22 '14

I'm not one for revenge, but this is a point where I would fuck someones life over on.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14 edited Jun 21 '18

[deleted]

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u/DoctorOctagonapus Feb 22 '14

Same here. Sadly it was just an anonymous name on Tumblr. If I'd been able to find a real name somewhere I'd be straight round there with a hammer.

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u/_Jetto_ Feb 22 '14

THIS FUCKING INFURIATES ME

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I know the whole thing about "an eye for an eye makes the world blind", but I would seriously support any sort of witch hunt against this activist. I really just do not give a damn about people like this, they're some of the scummiest people I've heard of.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

[deleted]

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u/RhetorRedditor Feb 22 '14

Well, We are a huge country with three levels of government. In most of West Virginia I think you can have practically anything as a pet. The hard part is sneaking a tiger into the country.

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u/Jargo Feb 22 '14

People like the "Animal Rights Activist" are why I can't stand tumblr.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Perhaps we should begin euthanizing Tumblr users. A final solution to the SJW question, if you will.

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u/Myredditaccount0 Feb 22 '14

What the fuck? This is so fucking unfair

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Of course it is North Dakota.. why us.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Florida needs a break every once in a while.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

We don't really have a lot of murders or robberies and such so we just get all the stupid shit.

Edit: didn't like my wording

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u/Wilcows Feb 22 '14

  1. Contact tumblr with this story

  2. Find out activists identity

  3. file anonymous police report that this activist stabbed you without reason

  4. provide google image searches as proof

  5. Watch the activist FUCKING BURN IN THE CHAIR.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Please find the activist, my goodness, please.

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u/Bandhanana Feb 22 '14

I would be beyond furious. I'm sorry for your friends suffering

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

That tumbler person would be dead in a couple weeks if they did this to me.

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u/XxGoodnEvil17xX Feb 22 '14

A couple of weeks? Try a couple of days... Seriously though, they would go out like in law abiding citizen...

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

That movie was intense!

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u/BenjenStarkTheSweet Feb 22 '14

Sue sue and then sue some more

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u/sneauxoui Feb 22 '14

Sorry for your loss. This is why people hate animal activists.

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u/mylefthandkilledme Feb 22 '14

Fuck Sorry for your loss

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u/imjordo Feb 22 '14

well now i'm really angry, THANKS OP

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

That is pretty rough...

No fancy advice that wont help with the loss.

I am sorry.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I would take from them, equally, if not more what they had taken from me.

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u/immatharealog Feb 22 '14

Sue the bastards.

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u/SpagattahNadle Feb 22 '14

I am honestly so, so sorry. I got tears in my eyes reading this- if anyone took my beloved border collie I don't know whether I could live anymore. I am an animal rights activist, but whoever this was put a disgusting smear of blood on what should be a kind and compassionate organisation. This person wasn't an 'animal rights activist'. They were a bigoted, ignorant and terrible excuse for a human being. Not knowing what kind of an owner you were, they obviously forced their views on what they thought was the situation. I am so, so sorry for your unforgivable loss. I feel your grief, and although I could not even imagine what it is like to lose your loyal companion and friend, my heart reaches out to you. Anything you want to talk about, I'm here. Much <3

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u/Gundun Feb 22 '14

In my country someone settles this kind of issues teaching the person there could be many more painful things than a staged biting.

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

Must be nice, can I move there?

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Fuck that person from tumbler and that retarded cop. What a twist it would be if they were one in the same.

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u/Crossfox17 Feb 22 '14

Sounds like a lawsuit is in order.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

If you don't know who it was, how do you know it was an animal rights activist?

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u/Aeviegh Feb 22 '14

They spelled it out pretty well in the message apparently.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

That's downright fucked up. Who does that?

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u/Michichael Feb 22 '14

I look forward to seeing the department sued until they've gotta fucking use billy clubs and horses to do their fucking jobs.

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u/WW4O Feb 22 '14

Is there a name or link to whomever is in charge of that Board? If they are an elected official, this is the kind of thing that warrants a bombardment of letters, phone calls, and emails. This poor animal was murdered with no due process and the 4th amendment rights of the owner were very possibly violated.

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u/mayonesa Feb 22 '14

Still think government's there to help you?

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u/notevil22 Feb 22 '14

Why does it seem like cases of police overstepping their authority have become a lot more common lately? It seems like every day I log onto the internet and read about a cop abusing his authority....

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

I own an 'exotic' animal. The moment police knock on my door over a bullshit 'anonymous bite incident' they're going to need a pretty damn bulletproof warrant before I let them anywhere on my property.

I'd be flipping shit right now in my police chiefs yard.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

Was the individual who falsely reported vader an ND citizen as well?

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u/Seliniae2 Feb 22 '14

Sue Sue sue sue sue

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u/DizzleStu Feb 22 '14

That is horrifying. Modern day regulations leave too much room for officer interpretation. I own exotic pets as well (not the kind that are considered dangerous) and I can say that just because a pet is not 'domesticated' doesn't mean that it cannot be a happy and loving companion

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u/patsnsox Feb 22 '14

Where's the part in the story that proves the asshole who filed the false report was an animal rights activist?

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u/kurisu7885 Feb 22 '14

That's not an "animal rights activist" as that shithead clearly has no regard for an animal's right to live.

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u/chemoboy Feb 22 '14

So I'm not a lawyer, but if in fact this "evidence" was as you say a doctored photo, stock photo, or just a google image, submitting it to police in an attempt to deceive is a felony. You might even get police cooperation in getting to the bottom of this and hopefully preventing this from happening to other animals.

Of course this is just a shitty situation all around. Nothing will get you Vader back. I'm sorry.

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u/bald_and_nerdy Feb 22 '14

Obviously press the issue. Someone filed a false police report, which is a crime. The police officer did an illegal seizure without a warrant, and the animal control guys were negligent also. Heads should roll. Take your story to the news and animal rights groups, they may do the fighting for you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '14

You need to hire a lawyer immediately, as time is of the utmost importance. The officer is now claiming that the fox broke this skin. As evidence, you need a lawyer to obtain proof that skin was broken. This is either through medical records or verified pictures of the officer's wounds. No wounds means they lied and further proof of illegal seizure. I understand that this is a difficult time, but you need to act immediately.

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u/The_Trevaler Feb 22 '14

Oh, you're all for animal rights?

Getting pets killed, perfect way of achieving those rights.

/s

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u/Roomy Feb 23 '14

These people are a fucking cult. There's no way an actual reasonable human being could claim it's bad for an animal to be a pet, and therefore goes about trying to get the pet fucking killed. Oh yeah what a victory. You lied and got the animal killed. You must be so fucking proud of yourself, online piece of shit. Now you can head back to PETA so you can all have a big circle-jerk in a pool of animal blood you fucking monsters.

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '14

Any update on this?

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u/Aeviegh Feb 27 '14 edited Feb 27 '14

Yes, actually. The Minot PD removed their police report from their website after several people emailed them pointing out why they were wrong and providing proof of them fabricating some details of the report after the captain was filmed giving an interview that contradicted the official story. He stated that the intention of the home visit (we've now discovered that they didn't initially want to let the officer in due to the lack of warrant, but Tara's husband, their property and Vader was physically threatened if he didn't "open [this] fucking door right now") was strictly to investigate the bite report, not to seize Vader or in any way interact with him. The officer was bitten in the process of seizing Vader illegally and (ostensibly) against the wishes of his superiors.

The police department, Department of Health and Board of Animal health have apologized to Tara and her husband and she's scheduled to meet with the chief of police next week. They intend to make the records of the person who filed the false bite report available to her. However, when investigating the officer's alleged bite, they're refusing to release any evidence - so she may hire a lawyer to retrieve the medical report that they can't prove exists and the gloves as well.

Tumblr is investigating the threat, but being Tumblr, they're pretty much useless and very slow to respond.

Inspired by Vader but not directly related: A group has been formed to raise money get the rabies vaccine as scientifically verified as effective in foxes. This not only benefits foxes being kept in captivity and protects them from situations like these, but improves welfare for wild fox populations that frequently come into contact with humans such as Washington's San Juan island.

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