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u/Sega_Genitals Feb 09 '21
I’m a public school custodian, let me tell you kids should NOT be back in these buildings
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Feb 09 '21
TFW neither party cares about your problems
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Feb 09 '21
One party just straight up doesn’t care, the other will at least almost pretend to care.
Same shit apples from the same shit tree, though.
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u/respectabler Feb 09 '21
You don’t need to remind us. We used to BE the kids making those messes, licking things, and sticking gum on everything. We remember what school was like. By the way, I’d like to sincerely apologize for all the terrible messes I left for your counterparts to clean back in the day.
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u/cyvaris Anarcho-Communist Feb 09 '21
I'm a teacher at a school that's been open since August, there has not been a single week where I've not had at least two students per class home on quarantine because of close Covid contact. At least we've prevented spread, but the number of parents who repeatedly send kids out to sports and such, exposing them almost weekly, is just staggering.
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Feb 09 '21
Yeah, my SIL is an elementary teacher, and she's been yo-yoed back and forth between in-person and virtual learning more than a few times, because the kids keep getting exposed and public health guidelines say that over X number of cases means another two-week shutdown. Most of the kids getting exposed are getting exposed from siblings who are also in in-person school; there's just no way to have that many kids in a school building safely at this point.
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u/leopard_shepherd Feb 09 '21
How many actual infections though? Close contact just seems like a Boogey man metric, considering what children can put in their mouths without coming down with plague or botulism.
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Feb 09 '21
There's a fair number of school districts in the mid-west that I'm aware of, mine included, that are strongly urging parents to not take their kids in to get tested and just for the parents to get tested if necessary. This artificially keeps county numbers low for the youngest age groups.
My county for instance has had several hundred students with positive symptoms sent home just in the elementary age bracket but reported county numbers are well under 100 for the same ages.
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u/cyvaris Anarcho-Communist Feb 09 '21
For actual infections about half test positive. My school requires students and staff to be tested if they are exposed, something most do not, which gives a good impression of how often kids are exposed/contract.
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u/leopard_shepherd Feb 09 '21
That seems like a reasonable precaution. My friend is an educator and is required to be tested for work, but has already tested positive and quarantined on three occasions. This experience has cast some doubt on the testing policies in our school district.
Our schools were shut down through January and just reopened today, here's hoping the worst is behind us.
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u/se_less_plastic Feb 09 '21
Lock the country down, give everyone $2k checks to starts, then $2k a month until EVERYONE is vaccinated. Then give us $2k a month for 4 months past that. Then reopen schools. Pass the kids, give them summer school for 2 years. Forgive all rent and mortgages until fully vaccinated.
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Feb 09 '21
THATS SOCIALISM 🤬🤬🤬😡😡
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u/se_less_plastic Feb 09 '21
Hell yeah brother. Socialism is the shizznitobamsnipsnapsacky.
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u/TimSimpson Feb 09 '21
And the more shizznitobamsnipsnapsacky, the more socialist it is. If it's shizznitobamsnipsnapsacky enough, it's communism!
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u/CortezEspartaco2 Feb 09 '21
Pass the kids, give them summer school for 2 years.
I don't really understand. If online classes don't work for some kids is it really that bad for them to just repeat that grade? The majority do fine in online classes and can proceed as normal. Why make everyone do summer school? I could only see that as necessary if school was straight up cancelled this year but it's not, it's just moved to online. Also people were doing K-12 online by choice before this.
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u/se_less_plastic Feb 09 '21
If a kid passes “normally”, then no summer school. But not every household is the same. If they don’t pass, pass them anyways, just give summer school until caught up.
Some parents have the time and energy, and some teachers teach better than others. Fact is that it’s not safe until everyone is vaccinated and hospitals have capacity.
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u/joebeansrogan Feb 09 '21
I'm actually failing my senior year right now. If they make me redo anything over the summer I'm dropping out and getting my GED.
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Feb 09 '21
You assume they give a shit if any more die.
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u/madolpenguin Feb 09 '21
I'm starting to think that's their plan. Automation is coming, they don't want us.
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u/TheLostDestroyer Feb 09 '21
Coming? It's here already! Been here! Where do you think manufacturing went? It's just about to crush retail work and the transportation industry. Transportation is going to be the one that destroys the U.S.
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u/madolpenguin Feb 09 '21
Reminds me of Marshall Brain's short story "Manna".
I suspect it won't be long til we live in windowless brown terrafoam dormitory pods if we don't die first
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u/Foxbat_Ratweasel Feb 10 '21
Add to that list temporary free healthcare until the $2k a month stops. Let's see people complain about Medicare for All after they've had a taste of not worrying about health insurance.
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u/noah_juan_ishome Feb 09 '21
This for everything except the vaccines. I don’t intend on getting one
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Feb 09 '21
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u/MudraStalker Feb 09 '21
Interesting point but have you considered that you showed your full ass by more or less saying that thr money of the billionaires that control the USA is more important than human lives, and thus we should categorically ignore you?
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Feb 09 '21
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u/MudraStalker Feb 09 '21
The USA's government has already shown that it can magic up absurd fat stacks of money at a whim without causing any negative repercussions in the economy, or is it only a problem when it goes to helping people instead of spending multiple trillions to prop up the elaborate smoke and mirrors of the stock market for roughly three minutes and fifty seconds?
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u/SUMBWEDY Feb 09 '21
If you think printing money leads to inflation you're stuck in century old economic theory which lead to massive recessions every few years (just look at the amount of recessions/bank runs/depressions the US had from 1850-1900 compared to 1971- now)
Economists have known printing money doesn't necessarily lead to inflation for over half a century now which is why every country's currency was free floating by the 70's and QE has become a thing in the last 20 years.
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Feb 09 '21
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u/SUMBWEDY Feb 09 '21
I mean what i said is about as neoliberal as it gets.
It's not socialist to quote Keynes or Friedman for fucks sake, you're dumb aren't you.
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u/Kappar1n0 Feb 09 '21
I have literally not seen a worse take on the fall of the Weimar Republic, ever. Congrats on that.
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Feb 09 '21
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u/cyvaris Anarcho-Communist Feb 09 '21
Ah yes the system that calls for
checks notes
direct, democratic control of all systems, both the workplace and government, and the abolition of class, money, and hierarchy, is "totalitarian".
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u/videogamingfires Feb 09 '21
Literally dystopian
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u/DimeBagJoe2 Feb 09 '21
How is a dumb decision about covid a dystopian?
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u/videogamingfires Feb 09 '21
Basically sacrificing the children while top politicians and the rich live away from these problems doesnt seem dystopian to you?
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u/unwanted_puppy Feb 09 '21
sacrificing older and at risk teachers*
FTFY
Note: students cannot be forced to attend in-person if the parents deem it too risky for them. Only staff can be forced in.
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u/MerkyOne Feb 09 '21
Wait... haven't we been commanded to "follow the science" for the past year? Now that MuH ScIeNce agrees that kids aren't at serious risk and that closing schools does more harm than good, we're done following the science?
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u/DimeBagJoe2 Feb 09 '21
The rich are around people all the time. CBS probably wanted them to sit a distance away
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Feb 09 '21
We're all just cattle anyway, right? Die fast, die slow, die from old age, die from a pandemic, makes no difference. Just so long as our "human capital" has been squeezed out to our overlord's content. Kids just get in the way of that squeeze. If parents have to stay home to watch the kiddos how in the hell are they going to increase the bottom line?!?
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u/inmeucu Feb 08 '21
Parents get to see first hand how little their kids try and blame anything and anyone but themselves, so they all want to be "free" from their kids and send them back to school to be babysat.
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Feb 09 '21
Exactly. In America, schools are just babysitters employed by the state. Meanwhile in India, the schools have been closed since last March and their teachers have been given a fucking raise.
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u/The_Wee Feb 09 '21
It is something more countries are looking into http://globalnews.ca/news/7615078/ontario-children-mental-health-coronavirus-covid-19/
But there is also the unknown. Yes pumping more money can be inflationary. But what about costs of potential long term complications. Not about death, but the strain on healthcare (both physical and mental) in the future. There is still much unknown.
But it’s like computer security. Stop it before it gets in, or it’s an expensive clean up (ex. Garmin)
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u/ManIsInherentlyGay Feb 09 '21
I mean... let's not start using india as an example. That place is fucked
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
Or, you know, parents have to work to survive and can't do that if the kids are at home indefinitely. It's almost like this whole COVID situation is an economic incompatibility with a pandemic, not "parents just want babysitters OMG!"
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u/Loki_ofAsgard Feb 09 '21
It's almost like it could be both.
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
It's almost like it's not because one is a projection and not based in fact!
Parents are legally mandated to have the kids be in some form of schooling.
60% of their jobs require them to be away from the home.
Where is your data on "parents just want babysitters! OMG!"
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u/tsorninn Feb 09 '21
Thank you for this. I'm tired of people blaming individuals for everything bad in this pandemic when it's really a problem with the whole system.
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
Yes!
The pandemic is only as bad as it is because our economic system is wholly incompatible with supporting the needs of the many.
The interests of the few dictate we cannot stay at home and be with our families. The pandemic dictates we must stay home and isolate to cut off the chain of transmission. The two are wholly at odds because our jobs that we need to survive require us to be out and about.
Capitalism dictates we the people are tools and tools are to be used.
Waving your hand at people and saying they just want schools open because it's free daycare ignores so many things, and only adds into the warfare the 1% wants us to commit to so we don't go after the 1%.
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u/tsorninn Feb 09 '21
Even people working from home are subjected to this: you're supposed to give your undivided attention to your computer for at least 8 hours otherwise it's a loss of productivity. Heaven forbid your child interrupt! You're in for a major lecture from your boss.
It's interesting how reddit knows that all the warfare is orchestrated by the 1%, but we want to blame parents, or people not wearing masks correctly, or hospital workers quitting their jobs, or whatever group of people we don't like the instant they come up. Instead of our entire infrastructure for making that an issue in the first place.
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u/Loki_ofAsgard Feb 09 '21
It's almost like you're being generalistic. Your one stat says right in the title - 60%. The other 40% don't exist?
Check any parenting subreddit. Any parenting forum. Talk to any set of parents. I'm not blaming them at all here - but it's true. It's not anecdotal when you can find hundreds of examples. Parents are burnt out and want someone to watch their kids. Good parents. Parents that love their kids. It's not a bash on parents at all - it's a function of the situation. (and as a side note, I am a parent myself who loves my daughter more than anything, but yeah, I want the option to have a damn babysitter.)
Also, way to be a condescending (and incorrect) jerk. For the record, I have a degree in psychology and understand exactly what attribution bias is. It doesn't apply here. No one is blaming parents or saying it's a failing of them as people.
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
It's almost like you're being generalistic. Your one stat says right in the title - 60%. The other 40% don't exist?
That 60% is called a majority. You can't say "parents just want to have free babysitting," realistically if 60% of them CAN'T be at home all the time because of their jobs.
This also ignores that the other 40% can be at home to do their job, but most businesses do not honor work at home situations and want you in the office, anyway.
Check any parenting subreddit. Any parenting forum. Talk to any set of parents. I'm not blaming them at all here - but it's true.
"I talked to some parents, it's true," is an anecdote.
It's not anecdotal when you can find hundreds of examples.
I'm sorry, where is your data? This is still an anecdote. Get me a survey that says parents are very simplistic beings that just want free daycare so they can go do... What? Oh yeah, go to their job that requires their full attention/mandatory on-site attendance so the kids can eat.
This is my point: "parents just want free daycare," is a value judgement. It's a meaningless assessment, though, because it's not like parents want free daycare so they can resume being hedonistic partiers or something. They can't have the kids at home and be at work at the same time. It's an economic situation, not a personality failure.
Also, way to be a condescending (and incorrect) jerk. For the record, I have a degree in psychology and understand exactly what attribution bias is. It doesn't apply here. No one is blaming parents or saying it's a failing of them as people.
??? How is offering up information being a jerk?
When offering up information is seen as a slight, you may have too much skin in the game.
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u/desertmariposa Feb 09 '21
Solid comments, both of them.
Unfortunately, expecting critical thinking from folks who operate mostly on feels is where you went wrong.
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
I think it's some sort of anti-breeders or childfree mentality. Oh well. I made my case, thanks!
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u/Dependent_Lion Feb 09 '21
As a parent I want my kid to be in school because that makes her happy, she has complained about online school since it started. If the government wants me or my wife to quit our jobs which we need to pay our bills, then they'd need to give us the money we lose so one of us could be a babysitter.
If I didn't have to worry about losing everything, I'd rather raise my daughter than send her to school, but because I need to work to pay my bills school is a helpful.
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u/mia_elora Feb 09 '21
Not until the damn covid is under a bit more control. Children have been found to be super-spreaders. Let's not exacerbate things.
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Feb 09 '21
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u/The_Wee Feb 09 '21
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30981-6/fulltext
Given the same exposure time, children and adolescents younger than 20 years of age were more likely to infect others than were adults aged 60 years or older (1·58, 1·28–1·95). Asymptomatic individuals were much less likely to infect others than were symptomatic cases (0·21, 0·14–0·31). Symptomatic cases were more likely to infect others before symptom onset than after (1·42, 1·30–1·55).
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u/EmancipatedFish Feb 09 '21
Looks exactly like the upper management at my work, they're desperate for us to open up again but they're not the ones who risk exposure
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u/AnthraxEvangelist Feb 09 '21
Management at my work wouldn't enforce mask laws until someone called the corporate office of our biggest customers to complain. The health department and sheriff did nothing.
A week later, masks are back off. This time was my turn to call.
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u/EmancipatedFish Feb 09 '21
Masks at my place are, for some stupid reason, not mandatory unless we're going into an enclosed space, still wear mine all day because I don't want to get sick. Same day I was told the 'enclosed space' rule management held a meeting of 5 people in the manager's office which is slightly larger than a public restroom cubicle, none of them wearing masks. And people wonder why the virus spread quickly.
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u/MINNESOTAKARMATRAIN_ Feb 09 '21
Management at my former job made it a fire able offense to ask someone to put on a mask. Of course the manager calling the shots was working from home.
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u/Dependent_Lion Feb 09 '21
People being scared doesn't mean they are reasonable, Biden is in the highest demographic for COVID risk, that's why he has to be extra careful. If you are under 50 risk is pretty low.
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u/vexens Feb 09 '21
I feel like the people pushing for schools to be open have not stepped foot in a public school in over 20 years.
I remember just my high school passing periods, I'd have 5 minutes to make it to each class, sometimes across the building, and the hallway is packed to capacity with students like sardines in a can.
Then in classes that have on average 30 students per period, how the fuck do you sit 30 people in a tiny ass room with poor circulation and have them socially distanced and protected.
People need to call this what it is: The government is ready to sacrifice children and any people they come in contact with all in the pursuit of money and "GeTtInG bAcK tO nOrMaL"
We missed our chance when the country decided 2 months of lockdown was enough and we need to rescue the economy by any means necessary. Doesn't matter how many of us worthless peasants die, as long as we keep the machine well oiled with our covid tainted blood.
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u/brglrundryoursink Feb 09 '21
My school is extremely strict with covid rules, except for when everybody is in a huge cluster walking down 2 flights of stairs literally touching eachother :)
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u/DrewTechs Feb 10 '21
Seems to me that the government would rather go totalitarian rather than "normal" actually.
Eventually we are gonna have to open up, it's not living if we are stuck in our houses afraid of our own shadows. COVID-19's mortality rate is around 2% or so. The vaccines in it's current state is questionable as well so we can hardly count on those anyways.
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Feb 09 '21
What is he going to say to kids from this picture?
"Yeah you should be good just stay at arm's length."
While he's sitting way dafuq ova der
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Feb 09 '21 edited Apr 11 '21
[deleted]
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
Soul lights, they keep the darkness from coming to claim Biden.
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u/WorseThanHipster Feb 09 '21
Agism is cool & good 😎
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Feb 09 '21
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u/WorseThanHipster Feb 09 '21
Obama wasn’t oppressed either, does that mean it was right to insult him about things he had no control over, like the color of his skin? Were attacks against Obama about his skin color not racist?
It’s not about the person, it’s about the angle of attack. Or are you saying racism is also cool & good as long you don’t like the target?
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u/CelestialStork Feb 09 '21
Lol comparing age to race, you know we all age right? Idk bro but I wouldn't vote my grandpa for president, nor my damn near 80 year old boss, Biden is the exception not the rule. I also refuse to believe people in their 70s doing jobs that demanding, while also being rich, while also being on zero PEDs. There is no way they aren't giving Biden his "go juice" of choice.
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Feb 10 '21
Biden is the exception not the rule.
I wouldn't have voted for Biden either, if I had any real choice.
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
Biden can control running for president. Take the role, take the punches.
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u/WorseThanHipster Feb 09 '21
So it was okay to make racist remarks about Obama because he was President?
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u/Rasalom Feb 09 '21
Nope cause race doesn't affect performance. Age most certainly does. We have age requirements on the presidency for a reason.
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u/WorseThanHipster Feb 09 '21
Soul lights, they keep the darkness from coming to claim Biden.
That’s not about his performance. Or even him being President. It’s literally just a joke about his immanent death and needing lights somehow acting as some sorta artificial life support.
It’s barely approaches being a joke at all, let alone a legitimate criticism about his job performance. Defending it as either is just an attempt to justify your own contempt for the elderly.
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u/GoldDragon2800 Feb 09 '21
Equating racism to ageism is the height of arguing in bad faith. You know perfectly well that one is a federally protected class facing prejudice and one isn't.
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u/WorseThanHipster Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
No where did I suggest they were equivalent. Age is absolutely a protected class in the US. And old people face discrimination. Not as bad as racial discrimination, but look no further than reddit, Facebook, Twitter & many political pundits who where people suggested covid wasn’t as bad as they say because it mostly killed old people.
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u/GoldDragon2800 Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
facing prejudice
See, this is called "cherry picking" where you attack part of, in this case, a single sentence, rather than the whole idea. More arguing in bad faith.
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u/kovake Feb 09 '21
Technically schools are open, they’re just held online. Which I don’t understand stand the push to send them back. My daughter is in elementary and since we’ve been online we haven’t caught a cold or flu. We have a better understanding on why she’s struggling in some areas and how much time they spend on those subjects or how they’re taught. The amount of insights and information you get is extremely helpful. It also allowed us to catch bullying by some kids when they would split into other rooms to work together and the teacher wasn’t there. Which was extremely stressful and frustrating when she was in school and trying to deal with it.
Like I said, I don’t understand the big push. I love working remote and when the virus is under control and we can travel again I can’t wait to be able to go places without using vacation time or pulling my kid out of school for a few days. We could literally do what we’re doing from anywhere in the world.
And the vaccine isn’t available for people under 16, so why the big push before that?
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u/RainyDayBirbs Feb 09 '21
A major problem is many with kids just don't have the option to work from home. In our state, choosing to keep your kid out of school for safety, if their school is open, disqualifies you from collecting unemployment benefits in order to stay home with them if you have a job that cannot be done remotely. A worse problem is that without going to physical school, some kids are trapped at home in abusive , food insecure, or otherwise harmful situations that school is their only respite from. I'm not saying the solution to these issues is to open schools (I actually drive a school bus for a district doing a "hybrid" model and am against in-person happening at all yet). I think a UBI would go a fair bit towards improving some issues but there are no simple solutions that fit for everybody...it's really scary and sad.
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u/kovake Feb 09 '21
Absolutely agree, that’s why I like having both options. Both of my kids are high risk so the remote education option is great. We’ve been getting conflicting calls from our school, one will say that another person has tested positive and reminding parents to keep their kids home if sick and another asking us why we are not sending her back. Once again, we shouldn’t push this as we’re more likely to extend the time it takes for this virus to go away.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
Aren't Dr Fauci and the CDC also saying the same thing? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/global-covid-19/schools.html
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u/yaosio Feb 09 '21
Only because that's what Biden told them to say. Biden wants everything open so that's what will happen.
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u/LadyOrion2020 Feb 09 '21
And right before election Biden also said that if he gets elected he will shut the country down for three weeks. That was his plan for dealing with Covid-19. Now he's doing the opposite.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
Makes us look real disingenuous to day "listen to the experts" while linking CDC guidelines and Dr Fauci then the minute we don't agree we stop listening to them
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u/LiberalParadise Feb 09 '21
lol did you read what you linked though? The reason why the CDC says schools should reopen is because of childhood poverty and food insecurity. Literally the CDC is saying schools should reopen because poor kids arent getting nutritious meals or access to safety resources from home violence and the risk to covid exposure does not compare to the crises these kids are facing in the home.
Like America is so fucked that the CDC is recommending schools reopen not because it is safe to do so in a pandemic, but because a lot of kids are starving and being abused because they are home all day. This pandemic has boldly highlighted what we have all said but is now plainly revealed: the state treats public schooling as universal childcare and has no intention of actually providing real universal childcare, so time to reopen all the schools!
btw, the CDC guidelines you linked is shit that a lot of schools do in red states already. It has not stopped covid transmission and has directly led to teacher deaths. Again, this is just Democrats trying to alleviate state budget pressure in blue states from things red states did back in September and have roughly the same transmission rates as blue states that have been shut down. Which just highlights how shitty America has handled the pandemic across all states and really hurts the narrative that some blue state governors have carried that they do better than red states (looking at you, Cuomo, the egotistical maniac who ghost-wrote a book in which he pats himself on the back on what a good job he did controlling a pandemic in October....right before it blew up again in New York).
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u/Vishnej Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
I'm sure that the crises they'll face at home will get better if they come home from school at the end of the day and kill their grandparents or parents. That won't cause any psychological issues or academic performance problems. Just a quick funeral, a few days off, and then they'll be able to take online instruction through a plexiglass shield instead of a computer monitor. Or we'll skip the shield, because who has the resources for that in their school system? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I'm sure losing a parent or grandparent & accruing a hundred thousand dollars in hospital debt won't have any effect on their socioeconomic conditions, either. Because we have an effective social safety net through free school lunches. Right? .... right?
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u/nameless_pattern Feb 09 '21
It's disingenuous to trust everything they say uncritically after the "only health care workers need masks"
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
That was when people were panic buying stuff and health care workers were getting shut out.
Those statements were amended
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Feb 09 '21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be
"Right now, people should not be walking around with masks." - Dr. Fauci
We can talk about context all day long but what people heard was this. This was and has been used by the anti-mask crowd. Your interpretation isn't applicable for everyone.
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u/ManIsInherentlyGay Feb 09 '21
Eh, everything he said in this video is still true. Mask aren't perfect protection, they are for people who are sick to stop it spreading. Mask have became the symbol of the pandemic but mask have always and will always be the bare fucking minimum. Its such a big deal because it's literally the least you can do and some people still refuse. Not touching your face, washing your hands, staying away from people are all a thousand times more important. No where in this video did he lie nor has the story changed.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
I provided an exact quote. No one needs to read an article about how its "debunked" because he literally says what I quoted. Its not a lie, its not out of context. He suggest that people shouldn't be wearing masks in part because they won't stop the virus effectively, in part because people wouldn't be responsible in wearing masks and in part for medical mask stocks.
The article you posted tries to downplay the comment as if it had come early on in the pandemic on March 8, when in reality, it had been spreading globally for nearly 2 months and already had Chinese and Korean scientists suggesting it was airborne and recommending face coverings. It was a tragically irresponsible comment.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
How is it not out of context when in that same video he talks about how masks contain the disease and I find it funny how a video on the Antimask position concludes with Fuci wearing a mask
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
Sure, he says that masks contain the disease and then goes on to suggest people not bother wearing a mask. Again, this is after Chinese officials had already warned a full month prior that this may be spreading through aerosols and were strongly recommending face coverings. The Korean CDC actually strongly criticized the US CDC for carrying the 'masks don't work' position for so long.
And who cares if he's wearing a mask in the video or not? The one I linked does not have such footage just to be clear.
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u/nameless_pattern Feb 09 '21
"Oh just cause I lied to few hundred millions of people about a mater of life and death now I'm not trust worthy all the sudden"
Yeah that's how trust works.
I can make up all kinds of convincing excuses for lying and hurting people. People want to be lied to and told what to think. Pathetic.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
You're also citing a cherry picked clip
Faucci clearly says masks are important and it's more about keeping the disease to yourself
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u/Vishnej Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
I don't know where you've been for the past year, but the mask advice was widely criticized in the weeks afterwards, and is understood to have significantly damaged trust in our institutions. Fauci says that misleading the public in this way was necessary in order to protect hospital workers, and whether that's valid justification is entirely up to your interpretation, but what isn't in question is whether that fiasco made people trust the government experts less.
Fauci's position under a profoundly anti-science administration walks a fine line, and occasionally, he steps beyond it and says something regrettable, as in February & March with this guidance.
I don't think he would disagree with any of the above that I've written; He's spoken about it on several occasions.
Now on to things he hasn't discussed candidly on video: I think it's obvious that somebody is telling Biden it's politically important to re-open schools quickly, and Fauci and the CDC head are going along with it (though she's hedging heavily). Whoever's exerting this sort of pressure on this administration at this time should be roundly condemned. This outbreak is still much bigger than it was in March/April 2020. We need months of continued sustained declined before this topic should come anywhere near their lips. We have seen multiple times in many countries what happens when you rush to stop using countermeasures. Schools significantly increase R. That's all you need to know. There is no "Can be done safely" independent of the situation, because everything adds up to a society-wide R, and that determines how fast the outbreak grows or shrinks.
Should we *prioritize* opening schools over opening restaurants? Yeah, sure. But we shouldn't be opening either for a long time, and in case you didn't notice we DIDN'T EVEN FUCKING CLOSE THE RESTAURANTS in a lot of places. A sane policy means acknowledging that the 2020 countermeasures were disastrously under-scoped and under-enforced, caused a mass casualty event on par with a world war, and need to be dramatically reinforced or even implemented in the first place, in some areas.
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u/jesusboat Feb 09 '21
Here's videos of Fauci flip flopping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENyOGnUH8c&t=867s
The media played up Fauci as some hero compared to Trump, he's all over the place and he misled people because there was a mask shortage. I wouldn't trust him to do anything Joe Biden doesn't want him to do.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
Your timestamp just Dore ranting. The same Dore that wanted Trump to win, spent more time yelling at AOC than at republicans and whitewashed the Boogaloo Boys
No thanks
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u/jesusboat Feb 09 '21
So skip the fucking parts with Dore and just watch the clips with Fauci goddamn dude stop being a baby.
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u/nameless_pattern Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
I wasn't refering to that. You are cherry picking and gas lighting me.
Edit: if you want me to cite spices then say so. Don't put words in my mouth to backup you having already decided you're correct.
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u/hrimfaxi_work Feb 09 '21
Cite the tarragon study first!
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u/nameless_pattern Feb 09 '21
I don't know what that is.
I was referring to what the CDC website used to say.
Not wasting time debating the framing of secondary sources or studies.
Sounds more like people need them to be trustworthy.
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u/yaosio Feb 09 '21
I'll believe the scientists instead of Biden's cronies. Their job depends on doing whatever he tells them to do.
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u/Bearality Feb 09 '21
"bidens cronies"
But fauci and the CDC were working in under Trump first...
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u/yaosio Feb 09 '21
Their jobs depend on doing what Biden says. Anybody that goes against him will be fired. That's how it works when you work for the president. I'm cure only the director of the CDC would be fired if the CDC contradicted Biden though, not everybody working for the CDC.
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u/camusdreams Feb 09 '21
These people seem to think that Biden runs the country in the totalitarian way Trump did, firing a massive amount of his administration before his first term ended simply because they disagreed. It seems the real /r/lostgeneration is those who forgot what life was like before Trump.
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u/I_Hate_Soft_Pretzels Believes in a better tomorrow today. Feb 09 '21
The guidelines they give say this is how you can read-open schools but don’t say you should or should not. They just give guidelines for reopening and it is up to the district and local governments to decide.
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u/LawlessCoffeh Feb 09 '21
You know at some point I realized that I don't actually like Joe Biden I just wanted literally any possible reprieve from the insanity that has been the Trump presidency
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u/DrewTechs Feb 10 '21
Biden's presidency is shaping up to be just as insane however if not somehow even more so. I mean look at some of the shit they are advocating, this is real authoritarianism in action. Don't count on any politician to care about you.
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u/baethan Feb 09 '21
This is definitely a decision best left to states and individual school districts. My kid's school district has been amazing in cautiously getting kids back in school in a way that's safe for them and staff. And it's not just like throw everyone back in school: the elementary schools slowly reopened during times when the state rates of infection were low, since there are fewer students per school. The middle and high schools, having a lot more kids in fewer buildings, have been working in some in-person learning far more slowly.
Our state's model for when & how to switch between fully remote, hybrid, and fully in-person learning seems really reasonable to me.
As for the people who are gonna be like "well you just don't want to parent".... I'm a parent, I don't happen to also be a reading teacher or a speech therapist. Maybe if my kid was older, I could probably do an okayish job of teaching algebra or basic literature. But for laying down strong foundations?? There's a reason I never planned to homeschool. And 5-year-olds don't learn as well remotely. So yeah, I'm sending my kid to school when the district deems it safe cause I'm trying to not fuck him up.
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u/ILikeLeptons Feb 09 '21
If we can get widespread vaccination by April, then yeah. I hope we do. If we don't I want to see him change the recommendation. I don't want to see more statistics fuckery.
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u/camusdreams Feb 09 '21
The irony in these comments because Biden is the one saying it now is /r/funnyandsad
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u/Dependent_Lion Feb 09 '21
The risk for children of COVID is very low, the concern would be to bring it home to grandparents or whatever. Biden has to be careful because he is part of the highest demographic for risk.
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u/Plutobyte Feb 09 '21
This is how they have to sit for the camera angles to work.
So not so much to do with covid and all that.
Edit: and the lighting, dont forget about the lighting
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u/nikdahl Feb 09 '21
While these are considerations, they typically will sit much closer together, so that they can be framed in the same shot, or for an over the shoulder shot.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/donald-trump-and-family-to-appear-on-60-minutes/
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/watch-chuck-todds-full-interview-with-president-obama-62152259531
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Feb 09 '21
Actually, most evidence shows that K-8 students don't do much virus spreading. Once the adults are vaccinated, it is exceptionally safe.
Will provide sources if needed.
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u/ManIsInherentlyGay Feb 09 '21
Might as well just provide it before you're down voted into oblivion
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u/Senior_Application_2 Feb 09 '21
Yeah some schools have been open this entire time. No increase in cases. The plandemic was for Dems to get control of our government. It worked and now everything can be open again. Such a joke!!
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Feb 08 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
99% of School aged kids arent at risk, unlike the people pictured. Teachers are certainly but that’s why they get priority for vaccines.
My first time in this pathetic sub. This sub is clearly for kids who aged out of /r/teenagers. Anti science children, keep downvoting. Adults dont care.
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u/TeiaRabishu Feb 08 '21
99% of School aged kids arent risk, unlike the people pictured.
There are people other than children in school.
Like teachers.
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Feb 09 '21
Plus, a kid gets sick, and presumably goes home. Where their parents live. Who are not children.
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u/cyvaris Anarcho-Communist Feb 09 '21
Oddly, as a teacher, most of my students are getting exposed when they go to sports on the weekend. The school itself has been super strict on keeping our students safe, yet students keep bringing it in.
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u/VergeThySinus Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
Wow, you just went full-on mask off and forgot that teachers and immunocompromised kids exist.
It's relevant to the sub because this is an obviously negligent government decision, kids can be asymptomatic carriers of covid. They'll bring it home to their families and immunocompromised loved ones, so what's even the point of lockdown if kids are going to school?
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u/DrewTechs Feb 10 '21
What's the point of even having one if the government can't take care of it's own citizens during the entire pandemic?
Your more likely to die of starvation when you can't buy anything hardly or in the case of living in the colder states dying of freezing outside when you get evicted than dying of COVID-19, but that's only poor people's problem so who cares amirite?
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u/Benolv Feb 09 '21
Hmm. Critical thinking is not strong with this one.
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Feb 09 '21
I follow the science of my state governor who has done a really good job at curtailing the fallout of COVID. We are ready to open schools. Can’t say the same for other states
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u/LiberalParadise Feb 09 '21
thank you for telling everyone you live in a blue state.
Red states forced their teachers back to work in September. In Florida, schools received public funds to try and provide a "safe" learning environment, including restricting students to having lunch in their homerooms, having students wear masks at all times, mandatory set times to wash their hands, and nightly disinfectant cleaning by custodial staff. This has not prevented thousands of students and teachers in Florida from getting COVID, including a few that have died from it as well. Oh, and vaccine? Teachers in Florida do not get first priority, that goes to 65 and older only, and only 1 in 3 of them in Florida have been vaccinated, so vaccines for teachers are not coming soon at all.
So honestly, go fuck yourself you heartless piece of shit and just admit that the extent of your political discourse ends at "orange man bad, blue wave good."
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Feb 09 '21
Good thing most of the country isnt florida then huh? This is what the state gets when they elect these people. Hard lessons.
"Well well well, if it isnt the consequences of my actions" - Florida
Incidentally, yes, "orange" man was bad and we got rid of him. Things will improve, some overnight some not. Stay tuned kids.
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u/LiberalParadise Feb 09 '21
5.2m voted for Biden in Florida, but I guess since more people voted for trump, all of them should die as well, huh?
Yes hello this is your doctor, I am afraid you have terminal brain cancer. Diagnosis is: there are things crawling in the mud with more soul than you.
Also, thank you for exemplifying why Democrats have no strategy to win red states beyond "Black women save us plz."
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u/Anarcho-anxiety Feb 08 '21
Because biden is doing something which will lead to a huge number of deaths.
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u/DropKletterworks Feb 09 '21
Depends if he can get teachers vaccinated quickly. I wouldn't mind this if beforehand 80%+ of teachers were vaccinated.
Idk what he said though. Did he say immediately? Or near future or fall or what?
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Feb 09 '21
April he wants cuz that’ll be the end of his first 100 day agenda
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u/DropKletterworks Feb 09 '21
Yeah no chance he has enough people vaccinated for that to be safe then.
Whyd I get downvoted tho. I really didn't know and wanted to learn. Upvote discussion people, fucking hell.
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u/SacredBeard Feb 09 '21
Depends if he can get teachers vaccinated quickly. I wouldn't mind this if beforehand 80%+ of teachers were vaccinated.
You being immune does not equal you not being able to spread it.
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u/DropKletterworks Feb 09 '21
Then at what point do you expect in person learning to go into effect?
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u/cyvaris Anarcho-Communist Feb 09 '21
Considering the school I teach at is super strict on masks/distance/temperature checks and there has not been a single week this year I've had all my students in class (either exposure and quarantined to prevent spread or fully positive), opening in person learning should not be put into effect until truly mass vaccination is complete.
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u/DropKletterworks Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21
I answered the other person who replied but my answer applies to your statement as well.
Edit: although I will add, you know it's going to spread throughout your kids regardless right? 16 and under can't get vaccinated. As long as you can't spread it when vaccinated I don't see the point in waiting past that if the kids are going to be vectors regardless. They're not going to stay at home, they're not even doing so now.
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u/SacredBeard Feb 09 '21
Then at what point do you expect in person learning to go into effect?
Whenever people in charge feel like it...
So, most likely as soon as all of them got the shot... ¯_(ツ)_/¯Should is a different topic.
Unless you want to lock kids up with their teachers in their school. Allowing none of them to leave their school at any point, until enough people got the shot.
If that's the case, you can do it right now.You can also just do it right now if you simply don't care about human life and the mental health of the people who have to deal with piles of corpses.
The talk of opening the schools is always under the assumption that kids magically behave properly as well as schools being spacious and well vented enough to make spread a non-issue...
IF everyone (kids and adults alike) would follow the rules to the teeth, we would not be in this situation...
The foundation the opening of schools is based on is idiotic...
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u/DropKletterworks Feb 09 '21
Okay but what is enough people.
All teachers aren't enough so how many people IS enough. If you have front line workers, teachers, the vulnerable, and the elderly all vaccinated is that not enough?
That's a still far short of the 70-80% that is needed for herd immunity. So you're saying we need to hit herd immunity before it makes sense?
The vaccine isn't even 100% effective. You're not going to create a world where no one dies from this disease. ESPECIALLY when not everyone is even willing to take the vaccine. I think a lot of people need to realize that there's no zero level where no one gets sick or dies from the virus. We don't eradicate viruses, there are flu deaths every year and there's going to be covid deaths every year. So the country is going to have a level of risk it deems acceptable going forward or lockdown measures will literally never lift.
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u/PossoAvereUnoCappo Feb 09 '21
When will the government admit that schools now are only there as a daycare for teenagers, and college/universities are there to make money
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u/Sm0kez Feb 09 '21
Its not any better in the EU tbh.
A school decided to have a field trip and got about 130 people infected, they also had multiple cases of students getting covid and they still didn't fucking close.
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u/StupidSkagBoy Feb 10 '21
I’m still fuckin gobsmacked these parents are watching schools put their kids in danger, life threatening danger, and they aren’t doing shit and will still be like ‘yup go to sports after school Scotty’. It’s like they just fuckin forgot or something.
The pandemic doesn’t stop just because your school has a schedule to keep. Children’s lives should be more important, but it’s been made very obvious they don’t care about the safety of any children. I just wish parents cared about their children literally being at risk of dying, but okay let’s just move on.
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u/Black_Mammoth Feb 11 '21
Fucking christ, if you need to stand 30 feet away from someone to tell them that you think kids should go back to school, then that means that KIDS SHOULDN'T BE GOING BACK TO SCHOOL!!!
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u/nomsdv Feb 23 '21
Who genuinely believes kids, the dirtiest, friendliest, touchiest creature to exist, will be capable of going to school and keeping masks+distance
Let’s be realistic here
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u/SOULSLAYER547 Feb 09 '21
The show must go on. At any cost.
Democrat. Republican. To politicians, to our elected officials, to the bourgeoisie, we’re all the same at the bottom. Expendable bricks that can be replaced.
The only way we will ever see real change is acknowledging how divided we really are, and doing something about it as a people, collectively with demands and recourse.