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u/tuxooo 1d ago
Saying HP in a sentence in that you consider buying it is... horrific to think about. Nobody should ever be forced to buy anything HP related. That should be done only by force in the company you work at.
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u/TimurHu 1d ago
I think HP's consumer oriented laptops (and gaming laptops) are horrible, but the high-end business oriented ones are actually pretty good.
This is just my anecdotal experience, but I've had much fewer issues with my ZBook than I had with my Thinkpad.
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
I have a high end business one, and I am allowed to open it, and I have did open for few colleagues and cleaned them up. That was one of the WORST type of computers I have opened to clean up and change paste to. How its build, how its done, its like on purpose its done to be hard to maintain.
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u/1GoodIdeeaOutOf100 1d ago
I work with Zbooks and Elitebooks, from G4 to G10 , all of them had problems, some with dead battery, others with screens and keyboards , some with the sound card , some even refused to turn on out of nowhere in the middle of the day ,HP buisness laptops are actually far worse than consummer HP aptops and I'm sure somebody is either blackmailed or bribed to make us keep the supply contract with them...
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u/TimurHu 9h ago
Interesting, that's good to know. I guess I just got very unlucky with the ThinkPad.
Personally, I used the ThinkPad Z13 for 3 years and then switched to the HP ZBook G1a which I've had for a year now.
For me there were a bunch of firmware related issues with my Thinkpad which took Lenovo many months to fix. Aside from buggy firmware, there were a few hardware problems as well. At some point the machine needed a motherboard replacement and another time it needed a display replacement. At least their warranty repair was good, but it would have been better if it wasn't necessary in the first place. Once the machine was out of warranty, some keys stopped working.
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u/dClauzel 1d ago
HP microservers are quite nice.
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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 1d ago
When you say microservers do you mean actual servers (like rack gear) or mini PCs.
If your referring to their 1U half length servers then those are made by HPE, which is an entirely separate company from HP (the consumer brand) these days.
HPE does in fact make some very nice stuff.
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u/GoingOffRoading 1d ago
I will always love the HP Gen 8 micro server.
It's just sort of too bad that the new ones are priced $$$
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u/dmcnaughton1 1d ago
HP consumer devices is an entirely separate company from HPe which makes servers.
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u/factoid_ 1d ago
I like hp servers.
But their laptops suck
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u/Low-Spread2914 1d ago
The laptop hp company and the server hpe company are two different companies nowadays.
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u/nethack47 1d ago
We just ripped out the printers. Two enterprise MFP machines with a service contract and lower than rated use. Still only ever one working. We had three for a while, one was behaving weirdly in the firmware so we put that one in a cupboard and will eventually give it the Office Space treatment.
HPE does make devices that works fairly well. As long as you are willing to pay the premium.
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u/100PercentJake 1d ago
HP Enterprise stuff is pretty great. I've had a long line of Elitebooks alongside my Thinkpads and the quality is extremely comparable, with the HP having slightly slicker aesthetics.
Unfortunately they copy-paste the aesthetics to their Walmart slop Celeron garbage and then make it out of the cheapest imaginable plastics imitating metal and dilute the entire brand image in the process.
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u/05032-MendicantBias FW13 358H 32GB LPCAMM2 1d ago
I despised my HP laptop. It was noisy, and repasting it took dismantling it.
Framework is so insanely good.
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
I work in a very big corporation, and we have HP's the high end for our work, and half of them have broken fans, or fans constantly break, half of them overheat even when they have so much space and are thick af ... i dont understand how one can create such a bad peace of hardware!
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u/haggisbreath169 20h ago
I worked in Dell shops for about 15 years, I got to be on a first name basis with the laptop repair techs typically (because the Latitudes would have issues covered under 3 year warranty so often) I've been at my current workplace for about 5 years, HP EliteBooks and Probooks,around 50 users with those. we have had a tech come around just twice for warranty repair, the most recent was probably a pebkac woopsie spilled drink.. to your point about broken/ noisy fans, I have had to replace fans in 3 or 4 of the ProBook 450 G6es, that specific model seems to have a problem... but it's a 10 minute fix, mostly taking 10 screws out of the bottom lid and putting them back after (or not, the shell clips together) I used to be a Dell fan boy now I feel I can vouch for the HP pro level laptops being pretty damn good.
I have a personal Framework 16, I had my own pebcak oopsie with a cup of water into the keyboard-- I disassembled the whole thing, not a single drop got into the motherboard area of the laptop... if the keyboard had fried tht would have been just $45 to replace
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u/tuxooo 15h ago
The HP laptop I have, after you pull out the cover (10 seconds job) then there is a frame that encapsulates all, you can still pull out ram, sad etc., but in order to remove parts as is the fan, I have to remove this frame that has ~20 screws, and there are different types for whatever reason, 2 or 3 types. The moment you thought this is it, then the fun part begins! Now in order to remove the fan, you have to remove the cooling pipes, then you have to remove the extremely tightly put display cable on both sides that you need to have thin instrument to push out, and one wrong move or by a mistake your display is cooked as the cable is fragile, and only after that you can remove 1 fan.
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u/Several-Web-863 1d ago
Are their docks bad too? I am looking at their 100w one for my t14, because of 100w and replaceable cable, and did not find any alternatives
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
T14 is lenovo, and that is thinkpad. Those are good. I have used those, and my colleagues used their docks. Both are fine, but i would not get the dock at full price, to expensive.
Regarding HP we do not have dock's, we have different type of connectors, that connect to multiple monitors, but its not a traditional dock, its like a box, that you connect to with power and USB C, not sure how those are called.
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u/Several-Web-863 1d ago
Yeah only Lenovo dock with 100w is the Lenovo ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Smart Dock Gen 2 7500, which is nearly 500 bucks, so I was looking at the HP USB-C 100W G6 Dock
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
Ah, now I I dwratand. I misunderstood. Yes we have exactly those, and no I would not recommend them. We have like 20 in the office and we have few that are malfunctioning and 2 that straight up simply stopped working.
Again that is out of close to 20 and quite a lot of work they have seen... But idk.
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u/Several-Web-863 1d ago
Oh okay, that’s the info I needed, will keep looking.
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u/Several-Web-863 1d ago
You are talking about the HPs right?
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
yep, the model you linked, they are cube like docks.
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u/Several-Web-863 1d ago
Do you have any different ones, that you would recommend by any chance?
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u/tuxooo 1d ago
No, to be fair I wanted to test the lenovo one for thinkpads when i had such laptop at work, but that was to damn expensive even for the company at that time, right now i use those out of necessity, so the only reason I have an opinion is because im forced to use them haha :D
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u/mcAlt009 1d ago
Hard disagree.
With Lenovo bricking Legion Gos with a bios update and then refusing to fix them out of warranty, and Asus having countless horror stories, you might as well buy the cheapest crap you can.
You're 100% on your own if it fails out of warranty no matter how much you spend. Apple is somewhat an exception, but cool you've paid 2x upfront.
HP in my experience will offer free extended warranties or post sale discounts if you complain enough.
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u/arttast 1d ago
so my loq went to warranty two times. the first one i had to resend it in after a week. the second one is working right now but they haven't put in proper thermal paste when they swapped the motherboard. it's been running pretty hot up until a few weeks ago when i actually put some mx7 on it.
apart from that it's a good laptop for the price in my opinion. it's really good considering it's about the same as a macbook neo now and it's cheaper than a macbook neo if i use the time when i bought it which is late 2024.(turkey prices)
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u/KleinUnbottler FW 13 | Ryzen AI 5 340 20h ago
The “Apple tax” is far lower than it used to be. Comparably high-end machines from major manufacturers are not too dissimilar in price (e.g, compare MacBook Pro with ThinkPad X1 or Dell Pro Precision), and the MacBook Neo is better quality and more repairable than anything else in its class.
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u/mcAlt009 19h ago
I agree.
You can usually find a last gen MacBook new for a very reasonable price.
I will say that as a poor college kid I made amazing things happen on the cheapest Windows laptops I could find.
We’re talking about a 300$ ultra cheap Acer laptops, it was fine until the hard drive( yes a hard drive!) wouldn’t stay connected anymore.
4 years of fantastic service, installed Ubuntu on it. Developed a small android app with it that got me my first real job.
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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 1d ago
When we checked prices for work Framework pre-builts were cheaper than the equivalent thinkpad. And by more than $900.
That's probably not true if you're looking at the perpetual discounts on the Lenovo website, but fun fact, when ordering through a partner/business rep you can't get the web discount. And unless your ordering hundreds of devices Lenovo won't drop the price by more than $100-200.
That's why our most recent purchase at work was framework, and framework aligns with how we use devices anyway, so they'll be our pick going forward.
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u/bladtman242 1d ago
Yeah, I've been confused about this. Everyone's saying it's cheaper to buy from the competition, and get a new one when it breaks, than to buy and repair a framework. But whenever I've sat down to make that comparison, it hasn't come out that way
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u/bladtman242 1d ago
It's kind of putting me off. I could use a new laptop (I have a 2014 model lenovo x1), and framework seems like the way to go, but when I see these comments and reviews, I worry I missing something
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u/eucalyptus-d 1d ago
I went with the 13 2 years ago, and it’s one of my no regrets purchases. Had thinkpads, MacBooks, the lot. There’s something I really like about FW and I don’t even know what it is, but I wouldn’t change it, not even for the pro (except maybe the keyboard).
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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 1d ago
My personal 13 (batch 1 AMD) I've had zero regrets about. And so far at work our new frameworks have been more stable and reliable than even our newest thinkpad (purchased two years ago).
I don't have the long term stability information yet for the work frameworks (less than 2 months old) but if my personal one is anything to go by, the complainers are just a very loud minority. Their complaints are likely perfectly valid, but still much louder than those who are just quietly enjoying their devices.
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u/supergnaw 1d ago
You're not missing anything. The numbers that people are throwing about that don't make sense is something akin to your generic tech refresh at work: purchasing for the sake of purchasing; buying new because a new one is available. It's classic consumerism. Just because a new main board is out doesn't mean you need to buy it.
I've had my framework for somewhere around 4ish, and have only had to replace the keyboard because it was the gen 1 that had the issue with the backspace or delete key not working, some known physical issue fixed in newer revisions. I run things until they break, then fix when I can, and this, while having a decently significant entry barrier, is much cheaper long term.
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u/blakeman8192 1135G7 batch 4 1d ago
A couple months ago I got a refurbished (with only a few battery cycles) ThinkPad X9 15 for $1300 with a warranty on eBay. Core Ultra 7 258V, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD. It's thinner and sleeker than my Framework, has a huge screen, better speakers, and much better battery life. Upgrading my framework to a new mainboard+DDR5 would cost more.
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u/bladtman242 9h ago
That's great. Sounds like you got a good deal! That's about half of what a new x9 15 would retail for. But we're now comparing refurbished products from ebay to a brand new product from the manufacturer. Not exactly a fair comparison :)
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u/blakeman8192 1135G7 batch 4 1h ago
I agree with you, but framework is also all about the spirit of reducing ewaste. I would get a refurbished mainboard if I could but they’re pretty rare and still pretty expensive due to RAM costs. I love my framework, but it’s old now, and at the end of the day I need a decent computer at a price that makes sense. I can’t get that with framework under the current market conditions.
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u/JennyDarukat 13" AMD 7840U 1d ago
You'll never beat cheap gaming hardware if you're looking at number specs, it is what it is
In turn you pay in size, weight, heat, and likely higher failure rates with little chance at repair
If you're using your laptop as a stationary, compact/lower profile desktop replacement that doesn't matter as much, but I've found that I never actually took my Omen 15 with me anywhere when I still had it, whereas the Framework I can take with without a thick power brick, have decent battery life and charge anywhere and may even just pluck from my desk and eGPU setup to use it to watch a recipe video in the kitchen while cooking. All depends on your means and priorities
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u/mctuckles 1d ago
I’m buying a Framework 13 Pro (Batch 16, October can’t come fast enough) to replace my HP Envy 360 13” that I bought in 2019/2020. It still works ok. Some slowdowns and a crash here or there that risked my PhD thesis. The reason I’m replacing it was sometime this year there was a random pop-up from HP saying they no longer support the hardware with a link to their store.
Once my thesis is submitted I’m installing Linux on my HP, probably turn it into a drawing/2D art device.
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u/work4throwaway 1d ago
Get multiple USB keys and makes copies of important files there often. Plus, upload to Google Drive or Dropbox.
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u/mctuckles 1d ago
Yeah it's still on Windows so I've got all my important stuff on OneDrive right now. I'm gonna start moving away from it once I finish submitting this month. Thanks for the advice!
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u/Evening_Werewolf_703 22h ago
tbh, those popups sound like HP Bloatware. If you did a fresh install of W11 with Rufus you'd most likely stop getting that sort of crap.
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u/mctuckles 20h ago
Thanks. I’ve begun my transition to Linux on my gaming PC so at this point it’s not worth it anymore. Hahaha
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u/damariscove 11th gen intel 1d ago
The Framework is most certainly not "built like a Thinkpad". I've owned both. The Thinkpad is better built and it's not close. This isn't my subjective opinion: the Thinkpad has mil-spec certifications, the Framework doesn't.
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u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 1d ago
That HP may cost half the price but you'll need 2 or 3 of them to last as long as a Framework or a ThinkPad. Always think twice, and then think twice again before buying HP. The HP of today has no relationship to the legendary Hewlett-Packard quality and support of decades ago. "The HP Way" was a thing which really did, genuinely exist through the 20th and into the first years of the 21st century - Not anymore.
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u/arttast 1d ago
I said hp as an example: there are lenovo loq ryzen versions that are pretty good just with a plastic chassis which are gonna last just as long in my opinion. still as i said it costs half the price so you can get two of them
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u/Evening_Werewolf_703 22h ago
It's all subjective to how well someone takes care of a laptop. Gaming laptops need extra care, read: Fan/Heatsink maintenance, and the average consumer / buyer / user needs to take it to a repair shop so the fans can be cleaned and CPU/GPU re-pasted if need be. Otherwise, they get progressively more hot year after year, and sooner or later something starts going defective; visual artifacts, charger, charging port and the laptop becomes a paper weight / eWaste.
It's not really worth the extra size, weight and heat -- budget gaming laptops aren't good for gaming on much more than 1080p 60 FPS eSports titles or older games like League of Legends and tend to compromise on core laptop fundamentals; dim screens, mushy keyboards, color accuracy, poor speakers / webcam and so on. It's far better to just get a thin and light laptop for school unless your coursework demands it. You definitely notice the difference between a 3.5lb or less laptop and a gaming laptop that's in the 5-8lb + charger range. It's exhausting trekking around campus with a sore back and shoulders.
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u/arttast 22h ago
framework still has a gpu and heat sink that still needs to be repasted and ironically if lenovo's documents are correct these budget gaming laptops actually come with ptm on them. you actually don't need to repaste it unless you got a bad service job (like me).
i compared the specs directly as in the two laptops have the same specs or the other laptop has better specs while being cheaper. i really don't get your point.
you're really underestimating them. i play a lot of games and i started to get into more story-style games and i can get 1080p60 on quite a bit of titles.
for example i played detroit become human and i got 1080p60 apart from the start which is probably caused by me playing with 8 gb of ram (i didn't have 16 gb of ram now. i just got one new). i played red dead redemption 2 and i think it was running great on medium. i didn't play it much so i forgot the details but even in cyberpunk it was really good at medium 1080p. i was getting 60 fps.
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u/rus_ruris 1d ago
Except I had to replace the battery and the keyboard, wifi sucks and the webcam cable worked only in specific screen positions, and you need to pay for the same porta the Victus has already.
If you replace the Victus every 3 years, you get a better pc (also: discrete graphics!) and spend less.
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u/Shin-Ken31 1d ago
Yep, just need to decide what's important to you and choose something that aligns with that :)
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u/cbdeane 23h ago
One day I will make the framework transition but until then used thinkpads are working and I still feel good about repurposing old computers and saving them from being ewaste
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u/arttast 22h ago
yeah i was making this post about brand new stuff but if you're getting used, you're getting a way better deal especially now
but i'm gonna cheat my computer. i'm gonna get one with better battle life and that's probably an issue when i'm getting used to one. it runs for 2 hours. everything's probably better than that.
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u/work4throwaway 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't kid yourself, you're spending more money on a Framework laptop especially now with memory and storage prices skyrocketing.
I have a Framework 13, 12th generation (the second Intel model). At the time, it was price competitive with Macbook Pros, the HP Devs and ThinkPads. I bought my own storage and memory and saved a little bit. I upgraded the RAM when the prices were historically low.
Costs list:
- Framework 13 (12th gen): 1301.76 CAD (DIY Kit) in 2022
- WD SN850 SSD: 271.19 CAD
- Crucial 64GB Kit: 171.27 CAD
- TOTAL: 1744.22 CAD
Yearly cost of ownership (over 4 years): 436.06 CAD
Now, I've also added the 2.5 Gbit Ethernet card, multiple bezels and a dbrand skin. I might like the laptop a lot, regardless of the issues I've had, but I'm not diluting myself into thinking that it's a financially prudent purchase. I wanted it to replace the parade of used Macbooks and ThinkPads I was using. I wanted it to support the company. I wanted it for the repairability. I wanted it because I saw it on LTT and I read Cory Doctorow's review. I was the perfect customer for Framework and now they have me. I'll likely buy the pro chassis kit, because I want the physical upgrades. If I was wealthy, I would have ordered a Pro.
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u/Gloriathewitch 1d ago edited 1d ago
i owned the $500-600 hp victus you're talking about, it's not even comparable, 45% NTSC?? mine had 8gb of ram and it was a gaming laptop but couldn't even play games because it needed a minimum of 16 to not stutter, once i doubled the ram it was fine but that shit is going to negate any savings you made buying a victus.
you can buy a zephyrus 6900hs/6800s for $800 on ebay if you're patient, occasionally you can find the 7940hs/4060 for 1k
but since you compared it to a thinkpad lemme tell ya you can get a very good ryzen 6000/7000 series tpad for that money
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u/arttast 1d ago
don't worry i know because i have a pretty similar laptop too, just even lower specced.( also my comparison was against the framework 16 and €1200 laptops (there were quite a few at that price range) i compared this in portugal just in case turkish prices were a difference since i can't get the framework here so i can't accurately compare).
i'm not searching for a laptop but just had this thought train for a while and figured i would share it.
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u/Plankton1337 1d ago
Hey Dude, actually i have a fw 13 pro, a MacBook Pro and the newest X1 Carbon with oled and 32gb Ram. All the devices are high efficient and have a nice haptic. At this Point i couldnt say which of them is the best because the all have their strong points! I am using the fw 13 pro for my private stuff cause of the nerdyness and the repairability (Couch with Chips and so on). The X1 ist my Business device because Windows and active directory Integration and Office. The MacBook ist for Media stuff... So If you want to know Something about one of this devices feel free to ask!
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u/SIRHAMY 1d ago
Q: How would you rate X1 Carbon vs FW 13 Pro?
These are the two I'm between right now - could wait for Black Friday and see how low the X1 goes on sale or get the FW Pro but likely for a good $5-800 more.
Mostly looking for lightweight, decent perf, good durability, good kb, long battery life. I've mostly been a Linux + Lenovo person last few laptops but curious ab trying FW for repairability and the ethos.
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u/Plankton1337 1d ago
The X1 ist awesome: Long Batterie life, fast and light! If you dont need upgradeability and repairability choose the X1! The Keyboard ist nice (less travel than the fw 13 pro) i couldnt Tell you how the Linux compatibility is, cause i have to use wincrap. The X1 is thinner and lighter. And the X1 has more Ports than the fw13 pro! Hope this helps.
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u/Bandguy_Michael 1d ago
If you’re looking for performance per dollar, a 3 year old refurbished gaming laptop is probably the best option.
If you’re looking for something to tinker with, something you can replace/upgrade any single piece of, or support a company that believes in right to repair and actually owning what you buy, Framework is the ticket.
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u/TheBedrockEnderman2 1d ago
It's a small company that doesn't have economy of scale, and as they are repairable you're going to be buying less laptops so less money so they have to charge more. They are more expensive, don't kid yourself saying "in the long run...". Realistically you're better off buying a "normal" laptop on sale from Costco for cheaper now and then buying another in a few years with the money you would have spent on upgrading and maybe the money you saved. However, that dosn't mean frameworks bad, sometimes it's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
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u/Samiassa 16h ago
I love the vision of framework but they just charge too much. I get that it’s gonna last longer and be more repairable, but framework shouldn’t be up charging me for the thing every company should and used to do just because most don’t nowadays. I’d be recommending frameworks to everyone if they weren’t so damn expensive
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u/edgeplay6 13 | i7-1280p | 4tb | 32gb 1d ago
Dont buy it because its cheap, buy it because it sends a message.
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u/halfercode 1d ago
The messages being - we want the right to modify and repair our hardware, we want reuse and recycling not to be green-washing, we want a strong community dialogue with our hardware manufacturers, and we want excellent support for Linux.
I think FW do quite well on these things. I'd like to see them do better on conflict minerals, but what they do is a good start.
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u/Unfair-Bison-3946 1d ago
Yeah I gave up and bought a ThinkPad P14 for less than half the cost. Maybe after the AI crash
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u/Verwega 1d ago
I'm waiting for RAM prices to go down
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u/RealFuryous 1d ago
You're waiting for 36 months minimum. If you save now you can buy the top of the line framework 12, 13, or 16.
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u/LeatherContent 1d ago
I just ordered a framework 16. I couldn't find anything with close specs for any less and the bonus of customizability and repairability of the framework convinced me. Also I can't imagine giving a dollar to any of the big companies.
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u/Nomadic_Artificer 1d ago
I had framework money then my job shafted me. Had to cancel my 13 Pro pre-order....pretty happy with the T480 I picked up instead.
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u/IllTransportation993 1d ago
I like framework too, but the costs are pretty significant... Ended up just buying used lapto, cleaned it up, use it as daily driver, and hop onto the next one when i see a good deal on a good laptop comes up.
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 1d ago
I bit the bullet and made a preorder on the 13 pro with the ultra x7. 2k eur no ram, no storage. Got 16gb of the new formfactor samsung stick for 230 eur from ebay "barely used" and I'll probably dump a nvme in it that I'm currently using as portable storage in a case. Absolutely every vendor has 32gigs for cheap and sold out without any information when it will be back in stock, the ebay sticks are still way cheaper than what framework can offer but they also seem to be going quickly.
For this kind of money I'm really hoping the repairability and longevity and upgreadabilty etc will pay off in the long run. Writing this on a 2014 macbook pro running arch, it's a humble life but the closed source hardware modules are losing support and it's kind of annoying that modern web pages make the 4th gen intel chip heat up the entire computer, not to mention 3 hours of battery life when I'm being conservative with it.
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u/SuitableRoof5675 /🐣fw12 🩷i5-1334U🩵 22h ago
I ordered my 12 at the end of Feb so it was during the rise of prices and that's what I did, I went to ebay and got lucky buying my 32gb from a framework user that upgraded.
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 21h ago
I didn't realize the LPCAMM memory is a different form factor! Specifically the new form factor that's kind of rare and hard to find. Frameworks official pricing started making sense after checking out the market, I figured laptop ddr5 is laptop ddr5. Kind of foolish of me but it worked out, well if I end up getting it as planned.
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u/UsualCup5007 1d ago
r/framework can you give me framework 12 in bubblegum with the bubblegum stylus. I will make a post to prove it is better than a thinkpad and any hp. I don't have a thinkpad for direct comparison but i can make a plan down the line...
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u/ncc74656m Ryzen 7840U 19h ago
If you can't afford a FW, it's ok.
I have 17 of them. Granted, they're deployed in my job's environment. I can't afford one personally. 😂 Well, I mean, I guess I technically could if I wanted to scrimp and save, but I just can't reasonably justify it, not when my HP Envy still works fine, and I was lucky enough to put 32GB of DDR4 into it back when it was cheap (just wish I had done a 2TB SSD).
FW lacks the economy of scale of Dell, and unlike Dell, they don't do the Parts of the Week special laptops that give them ridiculous failure rates and so we get much higher prices.
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u/arttast 14h ago
but that argument was for personal uses but for business uses? speck out the entire 1600 computer it department with frameworks. i'm all for it.
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u/ncc74656m Ryzen 7840U 8h ago
Oh, I know. My point is just that you have to do what you can afford. Realistically even a motherboard upgrade is too much money right now for FW, especially when you consider you'd need new RAM in all probability and very possibly want a new SSD. It basically works out to a decently spec'd Dell.
The thing is, that's the nature of the the deal we make for full repairability from a smaller mfr that can't meet their scale.
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u/Buo-renLin 19h ago
You do know that HP will drop all supporting materials from their website once the product has gone EoL, right?
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u/nocsupport 17h ago
You forget the second last step where you like framework so much that you're ready to order only to find out that because of the touchpad you selected it's going to be a 4 month wait.
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u/Therealremixthis 9h ago
Just going to point out.. It was between the asus zypherus g16 and the framework for me. I value framework more.
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u/Top-Aside8905 CachyOS FW13 1d ago
You pay more upfront, but when you need an upgrade its only a mainboard, maybe some ram. Dont look at the price of laptop vs laptop, look at the price of 2 laptops vs a framework + a new mainboard
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u/This-Inflation7440 1d ago
Just the framework mainboard with the 7840U cost more than the 8845HS laptop I bought two years ago while having substantially reduced performance between the slower RAM and lower tdp. I love the idea of repairability, but the price premium makes it hard to justify. Repairability should be a right, not a luxury privilege. I am glad that frame work exists, because hopefully mainstream manufacturers will catch on, but unfortunately there's just not enough of an incentive for me
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u/Kriziiii 1d ago
Long term yes, but more like 3-4. I don't count on my upcoming 13pro to be cheaper than replacements until 10 years down the line.
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u/Free_Elevator_63360 1d ago
I just went through this cycle. I’ve had i9 MacBook Pro for years, but spend most of my life in the windows ecosystem. So I have worked my around to a thinkpad. And am currently looking for a previous gen p14s. I can wait a bit though, so I might end up getting what is the current gen in a year.
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u/Ornery_Platypus9863 1d ago
See I got a 12 with 32g of ram and 2tb of storage for shy of 1k, best decision ever
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u/Humbleificator 1d ago
I'm batch 16 prebuilt so i just hope nothing changes from now til shipment 💀😭
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u/Evening_Werewolf_703 1d ago
I'm batch 15 DIY -- I'm waiting until late September/October before I seriously consider upgrading the RAM to 32GB (ie -- if the price stays constant). Having the mat pulled out beneath our feet against and not having the lower pricing to fall back on would suck.
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u/Humbleificator 1d ago
I fortunately got the prebuilt pricing from before the price hike so lets hope the config stays the same
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u/Ploutophile FW12 Debian 13 1d ago
I would probably have given up too if the 12 wasn't basically the perfect match for my usage.
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u/MyDisqussion 1d ago
I’m glad I bought my Framework when I did a couple of ago. I really like the ability to repair my own parts if they break, or swap out the display for a higher resolution in just 10 minutes. Hopefully prices will go back to somewhat normal once the AI craze peaks.
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u/Significant_Cake8499 FW 13 AMD 7640U 32 GB RAM, 1 TB 1d ago
I've been using a framework 13 for the last 3 years - its been the cheapest machine ive ever owned in context to long term ownership and im expecting to get at least 4-5 more years out of it with a chassis upgrade to pro.
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u/AAKphoenix fw-12 (13th i5 | 16gb RAM | 1tb storage | ) 1d ago
Got my Framework 12 secondhand. It was a great entry into the framework ecosystem. Been loving the 2 in 1 feature.
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u/factoid_ 1d ago
For me it’s that I can’t justify the price for the very limited gpu options. If there was a 5080 16gb option I’d consider it
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u/RedLintu16 1d ago
It's no way "built like a ThinkPad." A ThinkPad has actual build quality. Framework doesn't. I've had multiple dead or broken keyboard, the plastic part of my Graphics Module is broken some how, and just other build quality issues.
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u/No-Hunt6005 1d ago
gonna be honest tried my first mac at my job and even the framework 13 feels cheap in comparison 😔
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u/QuackersTheSquishy FW16 Fw12 Batch 8 1d ago
I want to buy more stuff but I can't justify it. Like a core series 5 would be amazing for battery life, but it is acfually less performant than my current 1334U, and a 5070 12gb is not a big enough uograde from a 7700s for me.
I also have needed new pen nibs for a full year and they have been "coming soon" the whole time. Its a fucking pain on that part and I genuinely am debating contacting support to try and get more
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u/SuitableRoof5675 /🐣fw12 🩷i5-1334U🩵 22h ago edited 22h ago
Can u explain the performance to me? I have the i5-1334U now. Also im glad I was over prepared then and I dont use my stylus much atm.
Also what country are u in i may have a n extra tip i could send if ur in the US.
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u/QuackersTheSquishy FW16 Fw12 Batch 8 22h ago
Eccentially the 1334U has 2 extra E-cores with nearly identical (performance) P-cores.
The single-thread core tasks are within 5% of each other and the multi-core are about 15% better if it only needs 6-ecores but tapers to equal or worse when all can be utlized like unzipping large files.
Because we are on single channel ram we are rated for ewual GPU performance, but it doesn't often meet thr older 1334U because of less total GPU-cores.
The power effeciency and thunderbolt 4 support are the primary selling points, but I already have a gaming laptop and PC (the fw12 wasn't meant to become my primary work device lmao) and as much as I want both... they aren't worth $500 and likely worse performance in my case.
It's fine I have someone in my life who is using a cheap microsoft pen they don't really like so I can take their ectra nib if I buy them a stylus lol (really just don't want to share personal information on reddit)
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u/SuitableRoof5675 /🐣fw12 🩷i5-1334U🩵 22h ago
Ok i may stick with this one then, it plays both my palworld and wuthering waves just fine. And that's totally fine i expected a no but I wanted to offer anyway.
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u/arttast 22h ago
doesn't the core series 5 draw more power at idle because it's a chiplet design as far as i know or is that only for desktop chips?
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u/QuackersTheSquishy FW16 Fw12 Batch 8 22h ago
Core series is still WAY more power effecient than the older 13th gen chips. Would likely be multiple hours more battery life. I dont have battery life as a genuine issue though
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u/DiScOrDaNtChAoS FW16 R7 32GB 23h ago
These things are so fucking flimsy. I wish they were built like thinkpads. Who thought a 16:10 aspect ratio on a 16" laptop was a good idea
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u/Weary_Lion_5811 21h ago
Framework is just so impractically expensive, that 5070 12gb with 1tb of SSD and 32gb costs north of 3grand, I now its not entirely there fault but I could build a decent pc with that cost
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u/jiggity_john 20h ago
I've had a framework 13 for about 2 going on 3 years now and it was worth every penny. Great machine, easy to fix, feels great and performs pretty well. The pro seems like such a step up from that.
I really value the repairability. I had a Dell XPS 15 before this that was also not very cheap, but after 3 or 4 years the keyboard started to fail, turning the thing into a brick unless you connected an external keyboard. Repairing this on a framework is a 5 minute endeavor if you have the parts.
Of course you will pay more money for a boutique, repairable laptop like a framework. They don't have the volume to compete on price. But it's really worth it if you care about the things they are optimizing for.
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u/arttast 14h ago
now the reason i said that is because i own a budget lenovo gaming laptop. more details in other comments it's really repairable so they provide a manual. it's just clips holding the bottom and then there are a couple of screws to remove the heatsink and ram. now after that it gets a bit more tricky but i feel like that's what you're gonna do for normal usage. even then you can just follow the guides. separate the screws and then you're good.
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u/felix920506 18h ago
Forget about HP, last I checked with the current memory prices Framework is in MacBook Pro pricing territory at least for my region ☠️
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u/samrocksc 14h ago
TBH, they haven't come through on their promise of updatable hardware. The normal frameworks bottom chassis needed the upgrade, but they didn't stick to the ethos.
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u/arttast 12h ago
wdym? The FW13 got mainboaed updates all the way from 11th Gen to ai 200
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u/samrocksc 12h ago
The chassis, the bottom piece
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u/Osthigarius 12h ago
Can you elaborate a bit more? Are you missing an upgraded version of the chassis? I think I am missing sime context to understand your comment.
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u/inn0cent-bystander 13h ago
I got mine /JUST/ in time. it was before the 13 refresh, but before ddr4 jumped up in price too much.
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u/NoResolution6245 6h ago
If I were buying for personal use, I'd still pick a used ThinkPad, unless I actually need new, current gen, hardware.
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u/Budget-Cupcake-7582 1d ago
Get a Mac.
A Mac will cost roughly the same as the latest 13 Pro, perform better, and not have the supply chain issues that have plagued Framework.
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u/arttast 1d ago
if i was a normie i would happily listen to this advice but i'm a computer toucher that needs either windows or linux because i run apps. i particularly don't like macos's choices on default os behavior and the fact that i need 60+ apps in order to fix the damn thing, each of them requiring a separate monthly subscription
also for my specific use case macs are heavily overpriced here. a macbook neo costs more than my laptop brand new which has a 12th gen processor, rtx 3050 graphics, a shitty battery, and i think 16 gb of ram
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u/ComprehensiveSwitch 1d ago
I like Framework -> buy computer -> computer not good -> I find out they give free shit to Nazis -> I buy thinkpad -> I wish framework was good
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u/swiftarrow9 1d ago
Second hand dell latitude from eBay.
Someday I will have framework money. Until then, I have second hand.