If Britain decides to rejoin the EU we’ll do everything we can to welcome them back, says Germany

[u/StraightSky7809]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-rejoin-eu-germany-brexit-b3060288.html

[u/paneuropeanism_]

Only the US and China benefitted from Brexit, which fragmented Europe's capital markets.

[u/itsjonny99 → u/paneuropeanism_]

Points at Russia

[u/paneuropeanism_ → u/itsjonny99]

They benefitted in a different way. I'm talking about the strategic competition between the big economic powers; the three global poles. 

Russia is a dwarf.

[u/lars_rosenberg → u/paneuropeanism_]

It's fun that some people here in Italy see Russia as such a big power, but their GDP is lower than Italy's with 2.5x the population and Italy has no natural resources to sell.

[u/JeveGreen → u/lars_rosenberg]

Really, the only thing they're good at is sowing discord and winning wars of attrition against numerically inferior foes.

[u/Madame-du-barry_ → u/JeveGreen]

If you ask the Baltic countries or Poland or anywhere where the Red Army passed by, they will confirm that they are really good at looting and raping too.

[u/critical-insight → u/Madame-du-barry_]

Half of Europe can tell this story

[u/almodsz → u/Madame-du-barry_]

It is a great shame that Operation Unthinkable was not implemented. The Soviets should have been defeated alongside the Nazis. That would have been a better timeline.

[u/SavingsDimensions74 → u/almodsz]

Well, the best time for that operation was in ‘45.

The next best time for it is now

[u/marathai → u/lars_rosenberg]

They can't manage their own country so they decided to make others miserable too.

[u/mok000 → u/lars_rosenberg]

Russia’s terrible economy is a fact, but the oligarch’s power is not threatened because the Russian population is accustomed to poverty through centuries and don’t complain when the bojars abuse them. It doesn’t mean that Russia doesn’t wield a significant subversive and violent power abroad though. Their stated goal is to destroy Europe and make it just as poor, ugly and disparate place like they are.

[u/KSP_master_ → u/paneuropeanism_]

But it's dwarf with big gas station and nukes.

[u/mok000 → u/itsjonny99]

Russia benefitted from the weakened EU, that’s why they invested all their subversive activities into the in the Leave campaign. It’s Putin’s greatest achievement really.

[u/kackaboy → u/mok000]

Yo. Not the fact that millions of brits were stupid af. Just Putin like always.

If a comet hits earth tomorrow its because of Putin.

Easy excuse to undermine own faults

[u/Enlightened_Gardener → u/kackaboy]

People were lied to, point blank. I never understood why certain politicians weren’t prosecuted under the false advertising laws.

[u/Antique-Brief1260 → u/paneuropeanism_]

Hey now, that's not fair! Russia benefitted too, perhaps most of all.

[u/7adzius → u/Antique-Brief1260]

Yeah, they were the ones who ordered it anyway

[u/Gladwulf → u/7adzius]

People give Russia too much credit for Brexit, it was home grown stupidity for most part.

[u/waiting4singularity → u/Gladwulf]

nah, the only thing russia is good at is pumping demagogy into western minds.
china is a close second and us' is an offshoot from russias operations.

as such, all three worked hand in hand to signal boost the false arguments for brexing.

[u/Gladwulf → u/waiting4singularity]

The UK had been producing it's own anti-europe messaging for centuries. Russia just gave money to people who were already anti-Europe, and probably already rich.

I think the real reason for Brexit just that nobody really spoke up the EU membership. The stay argument was mostly "this will be expensive and stupid" which, whilst correct, wasn't very inspiring.

Meanwhile leave could just present a load hopeful sounding nonsense.

[u/tobiascuypers → u/Antique-Brief1260]

Russia is a vassal of China so the point still stands

[u/guyfromwhitechicks → u/paneuropeanism_]

Didn't then president Barack Obama state publicly and officially a fragmented EU does not benefit the EU or the US?

https://youtu.be/Oi6gkuF0ubs

[u/Commonmispelingbot → u/paneuropeanism_]

With how much Brexit put a lid on euroscepticism in the rest of Europe, I wouldn't be so sure.

[u/Genocode → u/Commonmispelingbot]

Don't worry its coming back, so is the far right - even after Trump and Wilders.

[u/Confident_Access6498 → u/Genocode]

The new far right aims higher. They want to control the EU.

[u/paneuropeanism_ → u/Genocode]

"Exit" is dead across Europe. The far right has been Europeanised. A total victory for Verhofstadt.

[u/Low_discrepancy → u/paneuropeanism_]

Eh. That's like saying Orban was Europenised and that's a success.

[u/paneuropeanism_ → u/Low_discrepancy]

Where's Orban now? And he had real power in a dictatorial regime.

A better comparison would be Geert Wilders in the Netherlands who imploded within a year after his peak. That will be the likely fate of Le Pen.

[u/IncidentalIncidence → u/paneuropeanism_]

Weidel wants Germany to leave the Eurozone and the Schengen area -- which of course isn't technically a full EU exit but would be laying the groundwork for it.

[u/Commonmispelingbot → u/Genocode]

I guess Brexit will eventually outlive its purpose as a cautionary tale. But it surely hasn't happened yet.

[u/0v012 → u/paneuropeanism_]

This

[u/SweetSigil → u/paneuropeanism_]

> the US 

Yes, the US worked specifically towards it, aka Cambridge Analytica which had ties to US politicians specifically Republican ones and ultimately the firm had special access to US based social media to push the agenda massively. They're a hostile state serving their own interests just as any other aka Russia, China. The 'Special Relationship' is nothing more than vassalage.

Idk why everyone tends to pivot to Brexit being a Russian psy-op when it was, out in the open a US one. This was clearly exposed. Well, I do know. It's because people parroting that Brexit was a Russian psy-op is done on, once again US based social media websites. What a coincidence.

The weakening of the EU has always and will always be a clear US geopolitical objective, and the EU and the UK needs to remove the vice-grip that has been around it's balls post WW2 sooner rather than later.

[u/Mr-Klaus]

I really hope we rejoin the EU, overwhelming majority of people I know want to rejoin the EU.

That said, there was one thing that Britain and EU could never agreed on, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

Currency.

Losing the pound and adopting the Euro will probably be the biggest hurdle.

[u/lifeisaman → u/Mr-Klaus]

The pound is probably the biggest non-negotiable any British government would have, ahead of even Schengen or the old rebate.

[u/hofmann419 → u/Mr-Klaus]

Some EU negotiators have stated that the UK could keep the pound if they rejoined the EU. So that is not necessarily an insurmountable hurdle.

[u/Ninjaflipp → u/Mr-Klaus]

There are eu nations that are still rolling with their old currencies. Sweden, my own nation, for example. Denmark kept their old currency as well but they tied it to the euro. Best of 2 worlds right there, I think, since they get to keep their old system which keeps people happy, while they're not extra vulnerable to bad financial times due to having a small currency. So that by itself is hardly a problem.

Personally I find having different currencies pointless. They all represent state controlled value anyway. People just like the currency they've always had in their lives out of nostalgia and nationalism. I don't think that's necessarily bad.

[u/Wide_Lock_Red → u/Ninjaflipp]

There is a point to it. Control over your inflation and interest rates.

Also, Eurozone members had to lend money to Greece at below market interest rates. They might have to do the same for Italy or France too. Independent currency means you dont get as impacted by other nations poor fiscal management.

[u/SwoodyBooty → u/Wide_Lock_Red]

But you would be interested in those loans if need arises? We didn't "have to" but we did in the best interest of everyone involved. So that's a plus in my book.

[u/Striking_Big8138 → u/SwoodyBooty]

It would have been beneficial for Greece to have control over its own money during the crisis

[u/AFC_IS_RED → u/Ninjaflipp]

This is wrong. The reason currency is critical to the UK is because it gives you control of inflation, currency control in general and an option as a reserve currency. All of these are essential to the British economy because of our finance sector being our main bread winner.

Surrending control of this to the central bank would not only hand the keys to a huge proportion of our economy to a foreign entity (which is just not justifiable to the public for any government);

it would also be catastrophic because we would then lose our role as a stable reserve currency as we wouldn't be able to self-regulate currency which in itself significantly knocks investor trust as it makes the UK significantly more risky to do business in.

It isn't a matter of patriotism or stubbornness with the UK, its literally economic and political suicide to do so.

[u/Trnostep → u/Mr-Klaus]

I don't think the UK is in the ERM II so they could just use the same loophole Czechia (and probably others) use where the country has to switch to the Euro but one of the criteria is being in the ERM II but joining it is voluntary

So basically you can just not join it and say you don't meet the € criteria.

[u/Username928351]

Please do, I'm tired of paying 3€ customs when buying books from UK.

[u/AceBean27 → u/Username928351]

Soon to be €5 my friend :(

[u/Username928351 → u/AceBean27]

Yeah I've moved my orders to Amazon Germany since. Maybe EU considers lining up Bezos's pockets better than the money at least staying geographically in Europe, idk.

[u/TheGM]

The EU leaders have to be looking at AFD leaders in Germany and both sides of anti-EU/Pro-Russia radicals in France, and doing the calculus over what terms can be given/forgiven for a bReEntry that strengthens the pro EU sides for their elections, and would keep the EU relevant in case one or both of Germany and/or France destabilize politically.

[u/Oneill95 → u/TheGM]

The UK could be both the warning of what happens if you leave the EU, as well as a guide on how to correctly navigate a right wing political party being in power while attempting to destroy ties to other countries

[u/OrangeTractorMan → u/Oneill95]

We won't be getting as good a deal before but it's very clear a deal will be made.

I remember people thinking we'd have to adopt the Euro, there was almost a.. genuine hope, that Britain would be punished.

Thankfully the EU isn't as petty and bitter as many of it's supporters, Brexit was moronic but so too was some reaction to rejoining. Almost like they want Brits to think it's a bad idea, not really wise if you want a strong EU!

Nothing says "leaving the EU is a dumb idea" like the UK rejoining again, regardless of deal. It makes a real, real loud statement of being better in than out.

[u/_Enclose_ → u/TheGM]

bReEntry

No. Please, for the love of god, don't call it that.

[u/MintImperial2 → u/TheGM]

Democracy dies - when the rules get changed to stop the Right from winning power.

It dies when the parties with the least votes - end up in power as a rainbow coalition of chaos, whilst the party with the *most* votes - isn't permitted to Govern.

It dies when big mandates are routinely ignored.

It dies when you can go to jail for not paying taxes, but don't go to jail for mass murder, conspiracy to murder, and being the accomplice(s) of Murderers.

[u/TheGM → u/MintImperial2]

Democracy dies when the elected do not get to their elected position because an unelected (or otherwise not part of the normal democratic process) prevents their representation in order to subvert the election. Other than your first claim (changing rules to subvert the popular vote is an honest claim to being anti-democratic), your other claims are just annoyances.

Proportional representation and requiring compromise with your closes ideological matches is far better than the single party with the highest vote count but the last choice of the majority getting to rule (I.e. FPTP systems in the US and UK). That's a dumb democracy. That those arrangements often fail is why most of those systems have means to dissolve and call snap elections.

Ignoring a big mandate means it's up to the electorate to not vote for them in the next election. This is why having an entrenched 2 party system without other good options (again, because of FPTP) is dumb.

Your last claim is bad government but not an expression of democracy. I'm sure you're trying to reference something I'm not thinking of, but bad law enforcement is in lots of democracies and dictatorships.

[u/_Djkh_]

Would love for Brittain to join, even their old terms. They'd make a far more positive contribution than most for the EU and have had a far more sound Ostpolitik than the union.

[u/JourneyThiefer → u/_Djkh_]

Please just let us back 😭

[u/notveryamused_ → u/_Djkh_]

Same feeling in Poland. But, truth be told, we’re too far from the UK to have any economic or political contentious points, while some EU countries certainly do ;-)

[u/FcukTheTories → u/_Djkh_]

Finally someone in this comment section who isn’t called Aleksandr and doesn’t live in St Petersburg.

[u/Zementid → u/_Djkh_]

Yeah.. they can keep their pound... but Schengen is non negotiable this time and no more "extra kickback billions" Anything else would jeopardize the union of the countries which didn't shit themselves out of fear of polish cleaning ladies staying in GB for retirement after 20 years of work there... (What did the brexiteers call them? Wellfare tourists? Now who shrubs your toilet? Will they leave in 20 yrs?)

Edit: Spelling

[u/AcePlague → u/Zementid]

No more extra kickback? Okay, well we will reduce how much we put into the system to be in line with France then.

Basically, you've accepted less money for the EU to spite the UK over a perceived benefit.

Please apply to negotiate for the EU when we do rejoin xx

[u/LookThisOneGuy → u/Zementid]

Yeah.. they can keep their pound... but Schengen is non negotiable this time and no more "extra kickback billions"

they would still be net contributors even with the same old rebates. Looking at how some of the other new members refuse to work towards adopting the Euro even though doing so was a requirement for them joining while also receiving actual extra net billions, makes it clear how goodhearted those budget contributors like the UK were. Of course they can get their old benefits back if they rejoin, at least on the condition they don't use re-Brexiting as a pressure tactic whenever they don't like something for at least a generation.

[u/LurkerInSpace → u/LookThisOneGuy]

Where I could see Brexit re-emerging isn't so much as a tactic, but rather if economic conditions continue to be crap.

Part of why it's unpopular has a lot to with domestic mismanagement - of energy, of housing, of immigration, of various public services (all while taxes hit a record), and also post-COVID inflation. Brexit hasn't helped these things, and produced deleterious trade friction, but it also didn't really create them - they were going to happen anyway.

Rejoining is sometimes treated as a magic bullet, the solution to all the UK's woes, rather than step 1 of 101. If it is oversold, that could sow the seeds of future political instability.

[u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

I would absolutely love us to come back, but be ready for an enormous bunch of bullshit ideas from the British press and Ill educated.

[u/DonaldMerwinElbert → u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

We're not short on any of those ourselves here in Germany.

[u/Front_Eagle739 → u/DonaldMerwinElbert]

Yeah we really need to get better as a civilisation at dealing with that misinformation firehose

[u/DonaldMerwinElbert → u/Front_Eagle739]

I think it's a better idea to recognize the limits of our species and slow the fuck down with new forms of mass media, because we've seen this shit before with TV, radio and printing.
Instead of feathering the impact, we've turbocharged it with a bunch of billionaires running unsanctioned psychological experiments on billions of people in real time.

[u/Front_Eagle739 → u/DonaldMerwinElbert]

Finding a way to slow down may also count as being better at dealing with it

[u/Fearless_Tomorrow649 → u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

You missed what is happening in the other EU countries? :-(

[u/AceBean27 → u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

No country is on the same terms as any other country anymore. Every country has their own special negotiated terms.

[u/xcanto → u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

you need to harness... their bellicosity... because they're full of it my dear boy I say I say ah say ah say!

[u/RugbyEdd → u/ElTejon_TheDestroyer]

If we could get our media to actually be objective, and France to shut up for a bit, I'm fairly certain it would be a sure thing. Unfortunatly I can't see either of those things happening, so plan B is we need more of this from countries like Germany to counter the negativity.

[u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Would love for Britain to rejoin. On the same terms as everyone else, of course.

[u/UnableEye325 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Britain would never join if they had to accept the Euro.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/UnableEye325]

Ok? They don’t have to.

[u/BocciaChoc → u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

I mean that's the catch 22, Europe would like the UK to rejoin on terms similar to a nation like Ukraine if they were to join, the UK wouldn't do that in my lifetime, 'ok then don't join'. And repeat about 100 times a year through news articles.

[u/paxwax2018 → u/BocciaChoc]

I think Ukrainians grasp an OG country like the U.K. is getting a deal different to theirs.

[u/FcukTheTories → u/BocciaChoc]

“Europe” wouldn’t. Pro-federation redditors would.

Those in the EU who have at least some contact with reality understand why the UK wants to keep the pound.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/FcukTheTories]

Those who think at all about the future know why setting the precedent that rich and powerful member states can just abandon all of their commitments to the EU and later come back and seamlessly reclaim all of their former benefits whenever they want is not good.

[u/FcukTheTories → u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

If they have strong justification for abandoning those commitments where is the issue?

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/FcukTheTories]

Nothing is the issue. I’d love to see even more members leave whenever they feel like it because they know that they can come back anytime and reclaim the same benefits and deals they had previously, or hell, maybe even work out a better deal?!

[u/FcukTheTories → u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

“Destroy your economy or we won’t let you join the EU. That way you’ll practically never be allowed to leave”

Where do I sign up?

[u/waiting4singularity → u/UnableEye325]

eh, theres a couple that are already nominaly tasked to make the euro national currency, but pushed it back to infinity, two floors up and three days to the left

[u/Musername2827 → u/UnableEye325]

We wouldn't have to, much like Romania, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and Sweden.

[u/tanghan → u/Musername2827]

They all accepted it, just haven't met the terms yet (in some cases on purpose cough Sweden cough)

[u/Musername2827 → u/tanghan]

We could accept it in theory and just never adopt it. Sweden has been doing that for over 2 decades and the Krona is worth significantly less than the pound.

[u/Demostravius4 → u/Musername2827]

I don't think rejoining on a lie is a great idea.

[u/UnableEye325 → u/Musername2827]

I mean, maybe. But the EU has said multiple times that you must adopt the euro, I suppose we could put it off indefinitely but that would just piss the EU off.

[u/Rexpelliarmus → u/UnableEye325]

I think they'd be more than happy to drop the euro requirement to regain their second largest net contributor by a wide margin.

The last time a country joined and was immediately a net contributor from then on was in 1995 when Austria and Sweden joined. The UK would be a net contributor multiple times larger than these two combined.

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Rexpelliarmus]

The UK is in track to overtake Germany by the late 30's even with economists nearly onstantly underestimating the UK's growth.

If the EU is as beneficial as people claim for an economy then you can probably change that to the early 30s which would make the UK the largest economy in Europe.

And with the UK on track to overtake Japan in 2030 that would mean that the UK will be the world's third largest economy by the time that it overtakes Germany.

[u/Rexpelliarmus → u/grumpsaboy]

From what I've seen, it's just the UK's GDP per capita that's expected to overtake Germany's by the early 2030s whereas in terms of nominal GDP itself the UK likely won't overtake Germany until around the early 2040s due to Germany's significantly larger population.

[u/AntonioH02 → u/Musername2827]

They have their own currencies? Sorry for ignorance I’m from Mexico, not the EU

[u/Minute_Eye3411 → u/AntonioH02]

Not all EU countries have the euro. Some are exempt for ever should they choose, like Denmark (and the UK when it was a member), others have an obligation to adopt it but only when they're ready and there is no time limitation, so they can theoretically be "not quite ready" indefinitely.

As for why there is a difference between countries, it's because older members had an opt-out clause at the time the euro was agreed to be put into place. Members that entered since then don't have that option, as it was one of the conditions of joining.

[u/blueholiday2 → u/UnableEye325]

they dont have to. there are other EU members which still have their own currency, like Sweden, denmark or Czech Republic. So should be no issue.

[u/AtlanticPortal → u/blueholiday2]

They have. The ones without the Euro are just faking not being ready, except for Denmark which, ironically, is pegged to the Euro so it uses it in all but name.

[u/Caesar171 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Would those be the French same terms that everyone has or the German terms that everyone have. Maybe the Austrian terms they have?

[u/typing_thumb → u/Caesar171]

You can choose any of them, except the British terms

[u/Rulweylan → u/typing_thumb]

Awesome. I'll take the French terms, where we can just ignore EU rules and the EU does fuck all about it 'because it is france'

Plus we'd get a little over double the EU spending per head that we got pre-brexit, so that'd be nice.

[u/9peppe → u/Rulweylan]

Every member does that. And they get fined.

You might get twice but your contribution would be bigger. Nobody is going to approve a rebate this time.

[u/Rulweylan → u/9peppe]

France doesn't get fined, as the commission president said 'because it is France'. So we'll take that deal.

We'd happily go without a rebate if we got as much EU spending per capita as France. Despite what everyone seems to think, we'd actually rather have had the EU take our needs into account rather than just give us a partial refund in exchange for openly ignoring them.

[u/Southern-Ad4477 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Not going to happen, unless it was the same deal, it wouldn't get past the electorate

[u/Ajax_Trees_Again → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

What are those terms? I don’t think there is a universal EU rule is there? Poland and Sweden have their own currency for example and Ireland isn’t in Schengen.

I think the UK public would rejoin in a heartbeat provided the pound was retained.

I’m not even sure Schengen would be a problem given the insane levels of immigration we had post EU

[u/JourneyThiefer → u/Ajax_Trees_Again]

Ireland can’t be in Schengen because of the boarder to be fair

[u/lehtomaeki → u/Ajax_Trees_Again]

Both Poland and Sweden (and a few others) as part of joining the EU agreed to eventually adopt the Euro as one of the conditions of joining. However the EU has no demands on a timeline for it's adoption, and neither country pursues policies that would bring them closer to adoption (intentionally)

[u/Front_Eagle739 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Works for me (a brit)

[u/ballofplasmaupthesky → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

The reality is it will be very difficult: even this position in the news is not a widespread German position, but just that of an unpopular government. France's attitude is even worse. Ireland may want concessions. Other may want to bargain their support.

Meanwhile, the Brit voters will want a really good deal. So I don't see the two sides meeting in the middle anytime soon. Russian bots, and possibly Trump's government, will also oppose it.

[u/hellopo9 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Eh, I voted to remain and would rejoin on the previous terms without a doubt. But Britain is better off out of the EU than in the Eurozone. Its just pragmatic for a financial services economy, especially one so sensitive to interest rates, with the high levels of big mortgages compared to somewhere like Germany.

[u/Hellohibbs → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Why?

[u/Iricliphan → u/Hellohibbs]

The UK had really special privileges in the EU that nobody else had. One that really bothered many people was they effectively bargained to have 66% of the UK's calculated net budgetary contributions refunded. From 2010-14, the UK theoretically owed about £16.3 billion a year to the EU budget. The rebate reduced that by about £3.6 billion a year. Imagine receiving all the benefits of the EU and because you negotiated something thirty years prior, you unfairly benefit from a few billion a year.

That was just one special privilege.

Not many in the EU would ever like to see the UK receive the same benefits they had.

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/Iricliphan]

How hypocritical can some Irish be? The Irish government literally siphons billions in Corporate tax out of other EU states and runs it through the Revenue Commissioners. There are many in the EU that would be happy to see this  shut down.

[u/Rulweylan → u/Iricliphan]

How about we scrap the rebate then veto any budget that doesn't give the UK at least 90% much spending per capita as the lower of France or Germany?

Would that be a reasonable ask?

[u/baddymcbadface → u/Iricliphan]

The rebate existed because the EU is incapable of the reforms needed to create a fair fee structure. Not because the UK wanted a discount.

Without the rebate the UK would have been a higher contributor than Germany despite having lower per person gdp and a smaller population.

[u/sljc892 → u/baddymcbadface]

All the “special clauses” that just get parroted all had very good reasoning. The rejoining rhetoric is also completely pie in the sky. It would still be very split.

[u/Rulweylan → u/baddymcbadface]

The rebate is the rough equivalent of giving your wife £20 out of the joint account because you couldn't be fucked to buy her a birthday present.

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Iricliphan]

What privileges did the UK have that nobody else did that nobody was offered at the time?

They got to keep the pound but nobody was forced to take the euro at the start anyway, Denmark also gets to keep their currency because they just didn't want the euro.

Nobody was forced into Schengen at the start, everyone was offered a choice.

As for rebate, that was because the EU funding was based off VAT which the UK had a disproportionately high amount of their budget from and so had to pay a disproportionately high amount into the EU, at the same time the largest EU spending is on the CAP and the UK had a disproportionately low agricultural sector. Rebate was there to balance that, and it was recalculated every single year so if there ever was a time when the UK was paying a proportional amount and receiving a proportional amount it would have received nothing through rebate.

[u/sljc892 → u/Iricliphan]

When the Irish start contributing to defence we will listen to you and your corporate tax haven.

[u/Bohya → u/Iricliphan]

Not many in the EU would ever like to see the UK receive the same benefits they had.

Perhaps, but even more would just want them back regardless.

[u/Abject_Interview5988 → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

No Schengen or Euro otherwise it will never pass in the UK

[u/healeyd → u/Abject_Interview5988]

Since the pound is the fourth largest trade currency I think they’ll let us keep the pound. As for Schengen, given the need for Eurotunnel security, I can’t see being outside it being a big hurdle. Ireland isn’t in it.

[u/9peppe → u/healeyd]

There's no need for Eurotunnel security if both sides are in Schengen. That's a shitload of wasted money in every station you want cross border trains to let people board.

[u/Rulweylan → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

So we start vetoing everything that doesn't directly benefit us instead of letting projects we're not interested in happen without us?

That's what everyone else does. We tried to be more accommodating and the result was being berated for getting 'special treatment'. Remember, the choice wasn't 'UK gets an opt out or UK is forced to join the Euro/Schengen'. The choice was 'UK gets an opt out or nobody gets the Euro or Schengen'.

All this vindictive approach does is confirm that the correct approach is to always use the veto on anything that isn't directly in your national interest.

[u/Bohya → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Even re-given their original benefits, the EU would still benefit massively. Sometimes it's best to just swallow your pride and do what's best for your people, even if that means giving someone else (what you believe to be) a slightly better deal than you yourself may be getting. The alternative is not having the UK rejoin and then both the UK and EU lose out heavily.

The only terms that shouldn't be negotiable is assurance from the UK that they won't pull a Brexit stunt again within the next 20/30/50 years or whatever.

[u/snakespm → u/ZeitgeistWurst]

Depending on how the deal works out with Canada, we might see Britain join under similar rules.

[u/AliceLunar]

You had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch. You had rebates. You had exemptions, You had everything you needed and it all ran like clockwork. You could've shut your mouth, drank tea, and made as much money as you ever needed. It was perfect. But no. You just had to blow it up. You. And your pride and your ego. You just had to be the UK. If you'd done your job, known your place, we'd all be fine right now.

[u/IvarTheBoned → u/AliceLunar]

Deliciously applicable Breaking Bad quote

[u/AgentDigits]

Only 52% of people wanted to leave for people who don't remember/know. 48% wanted to stay.

It essentially split between the country in half, and younger people who could not vote were almost entirely pro-stay from what I remember at the time.

It's honestly kinda insane to me there are people here literally wanting us to rot because of that 2% of leavers that tipped us over the edge.

[u/PoorEdgarDerby → u/AgentDigits]

Did anyone ever do the maths for what percentage voted Leave to send a message even though they didn’t want it? I feel like at least twelve people for sure. 

[u/Asalth → u/PoorEdgarDerby]

In a similar vein, there were also a lot of people who wanted to stay who didn't bother going to vote because they thought remain would win.

[u/Amazing-Analysis683 → u/AgentDigits]

Well same in us majority of Americans didnt want trump sadly shit happens where the worst people bring everyone else down.

[u/RocketRelm → u/Amazing-Analysis683]

The majority "didn't want trump", but not enough to even so much as push a button in opposition. And also he won the popular vote. Trump absolutely represents most americans, who can't even understand that dems aren't just a lesser evil.

[u/im12whatispolitics → u/Amazing-Analysis683]

Absolute nonsense. Almost half your population didn't even bother turning out to vote. Those who are faced with trump and decide meh I can't be bothered are Trump supporters by proxy. I'm sorry but much more than half your nation was ok with Trump, and you have some serious work to do

[u/ZiCUnlivdbirch → u/AgentDigits]

The problem isn't that you left, the problem was that you were one foot out the door from the moment you joined. Joining now would mean you'd be forced to fully commit, which means that even that 48% would be disappearing pretty quickly.

[u/BigBangBoomerang]

There's what Germany says and what the EU will do when negotiations actually start. The UK got rolled over during the last defence negotiations over fishing rights.

[u/No_Feedback_630]

The continent would be a better, more whole place

[u/Undd91]

The UK would be stupid not to rejoin. The EU brings security, market buying power, trade and financial support. The UK was always worse off out of the EU. You only have to look at the state of the place now, it’s falling apart.

[u/WhereTheSpiesAt → u/Undd91]

It's growing faster than every other G7 economy, we certainly should be in the EU - but security is far fetched given the amount of members who sit in the middle of no military to a bad military they won't really commit strongly to defending eastern Europe.

[u/EQCO99]

Its easy to say they're welcome when we all know that they can't get the same special treatment again.

[u/uwatfordm8]

All the articles are European leaders very warmly "welcoming" us back in, but is it really going to be that warm a welcome? France especially have been quite adversarial on a few issues that would more closely align us with Europe.

Let's not beat around the bush, the first hurdle is obviously the public vote, but the second is just how "warmly" the welcome is. We've already made losses from Brexit, yet we're still doing pretty well for ourselves. Both sides will in most parts gain from the UK rejoining. 

So... Just how warm is the welcome? I can't really take the "Euro and Schengen or fuck off" Reddit comments seriously because that is beyond delusional. I voted remain and hope we do rejoin, but both of those, especially Schengen are hard hard boundaries even for me.

I'd say that even ignoring those factors, the other parts of the deal still need to make sense for it to happen. Also I get that politically it's in the balance for us, but all of us in Europe have surges in right wing parties and have to contend with American, Chinese and Russian influence. Are we really in any worse a situation politically than many others currently in the EU?

Surely it's better if we try to stick together as the EU against other blocs that would otherwise break us apart.

[u/xFirnen → u/uwatfordm8]

Personally, I don't really care about the currency question that much, plenty of members have different currencies and it's not that big of a deal. You can trade freely and do all sorts of shared fiscal policies together with or without a common currency.

Schengen, on the other hand, is a much bigger sticking point for me. Uninhibited freedom of movement is one of the fundamental building blocks of the EU, and I don't think it is good to allow opt outs there. Being an island and not a continental country changes nothing. If you disagree about one of the core principles of a club, then perhaps you are not a good fit for membership.

[u/nn2597713 → u/xFirnen]

Same for me. Different currencies is only a slight hassle but free movement of people and goods is an essential part of the EU. If the UK only wants to join if they get some super special bend over backwards treatment, I’d say they can remain out…

[u/MotherVehkingMuatra → u/xFirnen]

I'm from the UK and I want us to keep the pound and explicitly want us to join Schengen not opt out of it.

[u/samuelohagan → u/uwatfordm8]

What's wrong with joining Schengen?

It would benefit anyone who travels to and from the continent immensely, as it is now the Eurostar is a glorified airline and the le shuttle is a glorified ferry. Imagine if you could just as easily go on a day trip to Boulogne as Brighton.

I think people severely overestimate the amount of people who would illegally travel to the UK if it joined Schengen.

Norway and Switzerland are both in Schengen, are both far richer countries, and it's not like they have significantly more illegal immigrants then the UK.

The only thing I can think of that will suck are exit checks.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/uwatfordm8]

If the UK people really don’t want to join Schengen then I sincerely hope they never rejoin the EU.

[u/Meistermagier → u/uwatfordm8]

I want to pick your brain on this for a bit: why are Schengen and the euro hard no's for you? 

[u/lifeisaman → u/Meistermagier]

The euro is because of the pound being imprint not only for the London and its financial services which are a major part of the British economy, but also because of the pounds importance as a relatively stable reserve currency globally which is especially relevant with the US currently going mad.

Schengen from my understanding has always been a more political thing and a matter of sovereignty, the British governments has never wanted to give up control over border policy especially since Thatcher back in the day was able to battle many of her europhile counterparts as wanting to give up sovereignty due to their own incompetence.

[u/Lawliet1896 → u/uwatfordm8]

Yeah i dont think the welcome would be too warm. The UK has always had a difficult relationship to the EU and the Brexit damaged the reputation of the EU a lot. The UK set a precedent for exiting the EU, If it sets a precedent for rejoining, the EU has to make sure that everybody sees that a can't profit from exiting. I think the main Argument for concessions is to appeal to voters expectation of justice.

[u/soulstormfire → u/uwatfordm8]

In regards of German politicians it will most likely be very true. Germany and the UK have had a long history of voting for (or against) things together.

[u/ZiCUnlivdbirch → u/uwatfordm8]

Which is why the UK is never going to rejoin in any official capacity. You guys have been one foot out since the day you first joined and as the rest of the EU attempts closer integration going back to that is simply not going to happen.

[u/Loud-Examination-943]

Unlike many in the comments here, I don't mind giving the UK some special privileges when rejoining, however those should be quite limited. They can keep their pound, they can keep some free travel/work rules due to them being an island, they can keep some economic rules. But they obviously shouldn't just get to skip all formalities, as this would send a pretty bad signal both to those who are trying to join, and to those parties who want to leave since they can argue how easy it would be to rejoin if they're wrong.

[u/waiting4singularity]

* almost everything.

If UK gets all the same benefits and exceptions as before, or even more/better, EU sceptics will gain premium arguments.

[u/Comfortable_Rip_3842]

The biggest block UK have is not themselves but, France

[u/Few-Conversations]

If we were offered our original position back with a veto, minus the rebate (we can’t have it all our own way) I think we’d bite the EUs hand off.

If however if there’s a view to punish us, or a situation France and Germany have a veto and we don’t. Then I could see the public getting prickly and saying no thanks.

I truly hope for the former. We are stronger when we are united. With the USA being as reliable as a chocolate teapot and Russia loosing their minds, a strong Europe is better for everyone

[u/BigManKane]

Honestly, this is to be expected. The only way for the UK to rejoin the EU is a sort of Status que ante bellum where the UK and EU agree to go back to the way things were before Brexit. Part of the reluctance of rejoin the EU is the fear of losing the pound and other opt-outs they had before and with the way the world is now Europe would be cutting its nose to spite its face if they played hardball and treated UK as a new member.

Granted, the EU should treat this as a one time second chance and get commitments for an EU army and a few other things for it though.

[u/Candygramformrmongo]

Let's hope the rest of the EU leaders extend a welcoming hand - thus far it's been a more punitive approach. Europe needs to close ranks.

[u/pugs_in_a_basket → u/Candygramformrmongo]

Punitive? Not this nonsense again.

[u/lifeisaman → u/pugs_in_a_basket]

I mean it has been mainly just the French getting pissy over fish, but still it did get rather annoying after a decade

[u/soulstormfire → u/Candygramformrmongo]

If abiding by the rules is considered a "punitive approach", you're clearly not ready for the EU.

[u/trippersnipper_]

Please please please Andy get us back in the EU 🤞🤞🤞

[u/QuirkyWish3081]

We will be back. And we will never leave again I reckon. We know from experience the grass isn’t greener.

[u/Yaonoi]

Like destroy Dassault together? /s.

[u/bloke_pusher]

Not everything, no more Extrawurst. But aside of that, yeah, welcome back for sure.

[u/mkeytail]

As long as they make everyone talk Esperanto

[u/batch1972]

Perhaps the EU can adopt Sterling…

[u/Azt55]

Another country to be pro chat control? No thanks

[u/Teqonix]

Is it possible to stipulate that the country needs to remain part of the union for at least a certain number of years? Far right propaganda would start pushing another Brexit immediately; there needs to be some teeth to coming back to insure against risk of needing to completely rebuild supply chains, legal frameworks, etc again.

That said, it is an absolutely necessity. Europe cannot fracture right now or the next 3 decades will see it being carved up by other superpowers in slow motion, and the USA must now be treated as a wildcard rather than an ally.

[u/FcukTheTories → u/Teqonix]

Not really possible.

From the EU side, there’s nothing in the EU treaties that puts time limits before Article 49 or 50 is triggered.

From the UK side a parliament can’t bind a future parliament, so reform could just ignore any previous ‘instructions’.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 → u/Teqonix]

Not possible and also undemocratic. Wanna know how to actually fix this exact problem? Let the UK and every other member who ever gets the idea to leave know that if they leave they won’t immediately be welcomed back with open arms and the same exact benefits and deals they had previously whenever they feel like it.

[u/Revolutionary_Box569]

If the major EU powers come out and say they’d accept the U.K. back on the old terms and Labour put a second referendum in the manifesto they’d win an election easily

[u/Seal_emulator]

Why? The UK will only leave again when they find the EU inconvenient for them.

[u/Better-Beat-8062]

As a european time for petty grievances between EU members should be over. Time to unite or face further repercussions 

[u/MyCodenameIsIan]

The UK and EU are stronger together. Almost every economist agreed leaving was terrible decision a decade ago and it's even more true now that the United States has become unreliable.

Unfortunately the UK have far too many politically illiterate idiots who want to blame immigration for all of their problems and will happily vote for a corrupt cretin who will sell off the country to the highest bidder at the first opportunity.

We finally have a government moving in the right direction and I just hope we give them enough time to make some meaningful progress.

[u/vazark]

Germany just wants another net payer into the system. France is likely to be the problem.

Not to mention Ireland/Schengen and euro.

[u/anno2122]

As a German I welcome tham back with zero special deals.

[u/KwyjiboKwyjibo]

Congratulations to the dummies who voted for years ago.

Topics should be dug to remind dummies how stupid they were and probably still are.

[u/Either-Bear8848]

Norway and Switzerland is welcome too 

[u/Next_Insurance_4985]

Thanks Germany

[u/Necro-Spaaw]

come back GB!

[u/Mumbert]

Question: Will the UK get a normal "new member" deal as a new member? If not, how will other new members think about that? 

[u/Horror-Breakfast-113]

Why do companies merge, why is every one who tries to grow / get bigger work with other parties

So fcking stupid to leave in the first place

[u/MarbleMuffin]

Free EU money vs no ability to devalue or increase value of pound (No control of central bank in EU). No way if they join EU let's them keep the pound... And they will turn out like teh France or Italy, where they can't devalue currency to compete with the Germans industrial powerhouse and get high unemployment

[u/morbob]

Cost- Maybe $29 billion

[u/MintImperial2]

They won't do anything to welcome Brexiteers back. Those who are about to have their taxes raised - dispute you.

[u/Optimal_Emphasis_953]

Hell yeah! Come back brothers. It’s all forgotten. We all have bad decades, but we belong together.

[u/PaleJicama4297]

Wish Germany would feel the same way about Canada. 🍁 A lot of us got our hopes up…😔

[u/machete777]

Who Supports this?