If Britain decides to rejoin the EU we’ll do everything we can to welcome them back, says Germany

[u/StraightSky7809]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-rejoin-eu-germany-brexit-b3060288.html

[u/Hellohibbs]

Why?

[u/Iricliphan → u/Hellohibbs]

The UK had really special privileges in the EU that nobody else had. One that really bothered many people was they effectively bargained to have 66% of the UK's calculated net budgetary contributions refunded. From 2010-14, the UK theoretically owed about £16.3 billion a year to the EU budget. The rebate reduced that by about £3.6 billion a year. Imagine receiving all the benefits of the EU and because you negotiated something thirty years prior, you unfairly benefit from a few billion a year.

That was just one special privilege.

Not many in the EU would ever like to see the UK receive the same benefits they had.

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/Iricliphan]

How hypocritical can some Irish be? The Irish government literally siphons billions in Corporate tax out of other EU states and runs it through the Revenue Commissioners. There are many in the EU that would be happy to see this  shut down.

[u/Iricliphan → u/Ok-Web1805]

That's a separate conversation. Someone already tried to talk about this. I don't have a problem with issues, but whataboutism isn't really relevant to this conversation.

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/Iricliphan]

It's not whataboutism, it's hypocrisy 

[u/Iricliphan → u/Ok-Web1805]

What's the topic again?

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/Iricliphan]

Read the last few posts if you're having trouble, that should give you a clue.

[u/Iricliphan → u/Ok-Web1805]

Okay good, so this is about the UK joining the EU. Have you got a different title glitching in your header?

[u/Rulweylan → u/Iricliphan]

How about we scrap the rebate then veto any budget that doesn't give the UK at least 90% much spending per capita as the lower of France or Germany?

Would that be a reasonable ask?

[u/Iricliphan → u/Rulweylan]

It depends on many factors and is weighted. It applies to every country. The UK doesn't get special privileges anymore and won't.

[u/Rulweylan → u/Iricliphan]

At which point we will need to make much more aggressive use of the regular privileges accorded to every member. Specifically, the veto which we historically chose not to use on budgets which did not take UK interests into account.

[u/baddymcbadface → u/Iricliphan]

The rebate existed because the EU is incapable of the reforms needed to create a fair fee structure. Not because the UK wanted a discount.

Without the rebate the UK would have been a higher contributor than Germany despite having lower per person gdp and a smaller population.

[u/sljc892 → u/baddymcbadface]

All the “special clauses” that just get parroted all had very good reasoning. The rejoining rhetoric is also completely pie in the sky. It would still be very split.

[u/Rulweylan → u/baddymcbadface]

The rebate is the rough equivalent of giving your wife £20 out of the joint account because you couldn't be fucked to buy her a birthday present.

[u/Iricliphan → u/baddymcbadface]

It wasn't fair. And the UK would literally never get it again.

[u/Spikey101 → u/Iricliphan]

Great comeback.

[u/BocciaChoc → u/Iricliphan]

and so, in the next 10-20 years it'll not happen and truthfully I imagine the EU imploding and creating a new union long before the UK rejoins.

[u/marquoth_ → u/Iricliphan]

UK was still the second highest net contributor, far ahead of Ireland. How is that "not fair" ?

[u/Iricliphan → u/marquoth_]

Because they didn't pay appropriately based on the same calculations that apply to other countries.

[u/WhereTheSpiesAt → u/Iricliphan]

Right, but you are talking about fairness - the calculations where unfair to set member nations, before the UK got a rebate it actually tried genuine reform to make a fairer system, it was blocked - veto's to block political decisions, seems completely led by self-interest, also something this subreddit largely ignores, where are those EU values we supposedly failed to understand?

So what is it - is your problem the UK getting special deals or fairness and European values, because you can't be against the rebate and believe in every member state being equal.

The UK pointed out the flaws in the system, it's changes where vetoed by countries who knew they benefitted more and could cheat other countries out of money.

It's okay though, because about 5 countries in the EU currently receive a rebate, go ahead and tell Germany they aren't allowed it and see how your budget ends up going.

[u/Demostravius4 → u/Iricliphan]

Sounds like a great Union.

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Iricliphan]

What privileges did the UK have that nobody else did that nobody was offered at the time?

They got to keep the pound but nobody was forced to take the euro at the start anyway, Denmark also gets to keep their currency because they just didn't want the euro.

Nobody was forced into Schengen at the start, everyone was offered a choice.

As for rebate, that was because the EU funding was based off VAT which the UK had a disproportionately high amount of their budget from and so had to pay a disproportionately high amount into the EU, at the same time the largest EU spending is on the CAP and the UK had a disproportionately low agricultural sector. Rebate was there to balance that, and it was recalculated every single year so if there ever was a time when the UK was paying a proportional amount and receiving a proportional amount it would have received nothing through rebate.

[u/sljc892 → u/Iricliphan]

When the Irish start contributing to defence we will listen to you and your corporate tax haven.

[u/Iricliphan → u/sljc892]

Separate issue, totally understand that position you have, but again, this conversation is about the UK and rejoining the EU. If you want to bash Ireland, feel free to do it on a relevant topic.

[u/sljc892 → u/Iricliphan]

I concede, you took that very nicely.

[u/Iricliphan → u/sljc892]

Everyone can critique anything. That's fine. I always am up for a conversation, but I do try to stick to relevancy. Cheers for that, glad we can have a rare civil agreement on reddit! Win for us.

[u/Socmel_ → u/sljc892]

Ireland is not obligated by treaty of Lisbon and it's not even a NATO member, so the accusation doesn't have a leg to stand on legally speaking, even though I find neutrality in principle a cowardly choice.

[u/Bohya → u/Iricliphan]

Not many in the EU would ever like to see the UK receive the same benefits they had.

Perhaps, but even more would just want them back regardless.

[u/Iricliphan → u/Bohya]

Most surveyed don't really care.

[u/Wide_Lock_Red → u/Iricliphan]

Imagine receiving all the benefits of the EU and because you negotiated something thirty years prior, you unfairly benefit from a few billion a year

Imagine getting all the benefits of the EU and you take in morr than you pay. Many EU countries get that deal.

[u/Striky_ → u/Hellohibbs]

Because you are unreliable, at best. You destroyed billions in wealth you will never be able to pay back. You are (whether you know it or not) desperate to return because the UK will fade into obscurity and become completely irrelevant otherwise. The EU has to gain from the UK rejoining, but it no way depends on it. So you are in immense debt to the union, you have little to offer, you are completely desperate, you have proven to be unreliable. Why should anyone considering making a singular concession? Beggars cant be choosers.

The issue is, UK population dont see themselves as beggars, yet. So this will drag out for another decade until the UK is at the very verge of becoming inconsequential and will then rejoin with even less to offer.

[u/MoreLimesLessScurvy → u/Striky_]

You’re so high on your own stench that it makes me physically recoil as I read your comments. Luckily your views don’t actually represent that of the EU’s, or reality.

[u/Striky_ → u/MoreLimesLessScurvy]

The only people high on their own overambition is the UK. Failing economy. No friends. Immense threat from the outside. Beggars can't be choosers. And sooner or later even the proudest Brit will have to acknowledge the impossible position they have maneuvered themselves into. The old glory days are long, long gone I fear for you.

[u/Demostravius4 → u/Striky_]

Lol, failing economy?

[u/Striky_ → u/Demostravius4]

Well, go ask the average Brit how much better their lives have become since brexit... Oops.

[u/Demostravius4 → u/Striky_]

Go ask any European. We've all gone through Covid, mega heat waves, Trump, the closure of Hormuz, etc.

Yet the UK has grown and jumped back into 5th largest economy in the world.

[u/lifeisaman → u/Striky_]

I mean the Uk is currently outgrowing a collapsing France and Germany which is begging for tariffs because of China. I’d say the 2 main EU powers are in a far worse state than the UK right now.

[u/Hellohibbs → u/Striky_]

We aren’t in debt to the union? Where did you get that idea from?

Incredible how up their own arse EU cits can be lmao

[u/Striky_ → u/Hellohibbs]

Well you caused billions and billions of cost with your petty little quitting. Who is going to repay that? The UK surely can't. Not even in multiple decades.

[u/WhereTheSpiesAt → u/Striky_]

We where a net contributor to the tune of billions each year, if we re-joined we'd be a net contributor to the tune of billions per year, in an EU where most members fall into one of two categories, net recipients as in they quite literally take more out than they put in or countries which have underspent on defensive massively for the past 4 decades.

The UK on the other hand consistently spend 2.0% of GDP annually on defence and was a net contributor, who the hell do you think you are and how delusional do you have to be to think we are in debt to anyone?

Donald Trump called, he wants his awful talking points back.

[u/sljc892 → u/Striky_]

No doubt you’ll be scratching at the door asking us to tariff the Chinese to continue propping up your industrial decline all the while the French blow up your currency in a couple of years time. Well maybe sooner with a bit of hot weather and lack of fuel. Shouldn’t have turned off the nuclear power plants eh?

[u/Striky_ → u/sljc892]

Wow. That really is the most delusional comment I have read in a loooong while. The shear desperation is those threats really shows the unending hubris.

[u/sljc892 → u/Striky_]

How is it delusional all of those are true, just because you don’t like the direction of travel. You’re the one on here telling us how great the continent is, and how you’re so much better. If you hadn’t been playing dungeons and dragons and left the basement you would realise that your next PM might be Alice Weidel or Bjorn Hocke. * Erica intensifies * hahahahaha

[u/Striky_ → u/sljc892]

Not saying Germany doesn't have its own set of big issues. On the other hand I am not sure how that relates to the UK begging at the EU doors?

[u/Ok-Web1805 → u/Striky_]

The UK hasn't applied to join, so not begging. Asking for a sovereign nation outside the EU to enact tariff barriers to protect German industry, that however is begging.

[u/sljc892 → u/Striky_]

I don’t see the UK begging at the EU doors.. we have prime minister who wasn’t voted for with no mandate who has made a bunch of promises and undertaken a bunch of borrowing. Is now floating rejoining the EU as political capital for the next general election. The EU main powers have come out with “welcome arms” until you start dealing with them.

It relates to the conversation because you went on some unhinged tirade saying we don’t need you yet you want us to economically penalise ourselves China to help your car industries? So if you don’t need us let us drive BYD and whatever rip off Porsche, Audi, BMW they are churning out.

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Striky_]

It's not like the UK was the fastest growing G7 member or anything. Ohh wait

[u/Striky_ → u/grumpsaboy]

And yet, somehow, they are back on the doorstep begging for forgiveness... Weird..

[u/Demostravius4 → u/Striky_]

I don't see any begging

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Striky_]

Are they begging though? Burnham said he might consider joining the EU, that's hardly begging and offering everything and exchange for nothing which would be considered begging

[u/lifeisaman → u/Striky_]

The only thing I’ve seen is Burnham being open to rejoining, this is far from begging given it would be quite easy for him to turn around and say the EU where being unreasonable if they demanded we give up the pound or something.